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Electronic Christian Study Program

Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/4/2013 9:03:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At the risk of this sounding like spam (and it's really not, just a review of a free study tool) I wanted to let everyone know there's an excellent program out there for doing Bible studies (and reading Bible books, and applicable maps, and commentaries and dictionaries). It's called e-Sword:

http://www.e-sword.net...

From what I've seen, it's got literally everything you could ever want including books and references that would cost hundreds of dollars and almost all free (or atleast as much as you could use unless you devour large books at a single sitting).

It's got a couple little quirks, but for the most part it's very well laid out.

The way it works is that you download the program and then you have to go find modules to load into it.

Two of the best sites I've found for downloading modules:
http://www.biblemodulesresource.com...
http://www.biblesupport.com...

I've got no buy in on this. I was just very impressed and thought if you were interested in Bible study, this program is a huge help. Let me know what you think.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/4/2013 9:14:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/4/2013 9:03:22 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At the risk of this sounding like spam (and it's really not, just a review of a free study tool) I wanted to let everyone know there's an excellent program out there for doing Bible studies (and reading Bible books, and applicable maps, and commentaries and dictionaries). It's called e-Sword:

http://www.e-sword.net...

From what I've seen, it's got literally everything you could ever want including books and references that would cost hundreds of dollars and almost all free (or atleast as much as you could use unless you devour large books at a single sitting).

It's got a couple little quirks, but for the most part it's very well laid out.

The way it works is that you download the program and then you have to go find modules to load into it.

Two of the best sites I've found for downloading modules:
http://www.biblemodulesresource.com...
http://www.biblesupport.com...

I've got no buy in on this. I was just very impressed and thought if you were interested in Bible study, this program is a huge help. Let me know what you think.

The one thing it certainly can't give you is the truth, there is only one source for that, and they likewise give you all the study aids you could wish for online and free. You don't even have to clutter up your hard drive with any of it unless you choose to do so.

Nor do you have to register, nor give out any personal information in any way, unless you choose to do so.

I t really couldn't be freer, easier or safer.

It's www.jw.org
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/4/2013 11:20:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/4/2013 9:14:26 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/4/2013 9:03:22 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At the risk of this sounding like spam (and it's really not, just a review of a free study tool) I wanted to let everyone know there's an excellent program out there for doing Bible studies (and reading Bible books, and applicable maps, and commentaries and dictionaries). It's called e-Sword:

http://www.e-sword.net...

From what I've seen, it's got literally everything you could ever want including books and references that would cost hundreds of dollars and almost all free (or atleast as much as you could use unless you devour large books at a single sitting).

It's got a couple little quirks, but for the most part it's very well laid out.

The way it works is that you download the program and then you have to go find modules to load into it.

Two of the best sites I've found for downloading modules:
http://www.biblemodulesresource.com...
http://www.biblesupport.com...

I've got no buy in on this. I was just very impressed and thought if you were interested in Bible study, this program is a huge help. Let me know what you think.

The one thing it certainly can't give you is the truth, there is only one source for that, and they likewise give you all the study aids you could wish for online and free. You don't even have to clutter up your hard drive with any of it unless you choose to do so.

Nor do you have to register, nor give out any personal information in any way, unless you choose to do so.

I t really couldn't be freer, easier or safer.

It's www.jw.org

Really, MCB...I don't hijack your threads with random nonsense, don't do it to mine.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/4/2013 11:59:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/4/2013 11:20:11 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/4/2013 9:14:26 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/4/2013 9:03:22 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At the risk of this sounding like spam (and it's really not, just a review of a free study tool) I wanted to let everyone know there's an excellent program out there for doing Bible studies (and reading Bible books, and applicable maps, and commentaries and dictionaries). It's called e-Sword:

http://www.e-sword.net...

From what I've seen, it's got literally everything you could ever want including books and references that would cost hundreds of dollars and almost all free (or atleast as much as you could use unless you devour large books at a single sitting).

It's got a couple little quirks, but for the most part it's very well laid out.

The way it works is that you download the program and then you have to go find modules to load into it.

Two of the best sites I've found for downloading modules:
http://www.biblemodulesresource.com...
http://www.biblesupport.com...

I've got no buy in on this. I was just very impressed and thought if you were interested in Bible study, this program is a huge help. Let me know what you think.

The one thing it certainly can't give you is the truth, there is only one source for that, and they likewise give you all the study aids you could wish for online and free. You don't even have to clutter up your hard drive with any of it unless you choose to do so.

Nor do you have to register, nor give out any personal information in any way, unless you choose to do so.

I t really couldn't be freer, easier or safer.

It's www.jw.org

Really, MCB...I don't hijack your threads with random nonsense, don't do it to mine.

I never post nonsense, and certainly not random, I am merely pointing out the superior alternative t what you mention.
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/4/2013 12:07:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/4/2013 11:59:16 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/4/2013 11:20:11 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/4/2013 9:14:26 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/4/2013 9:03:22 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At the risk of this sounding like spam (and it's really not, just a review of a free study tool) I wanted to let everyone know there's an excellent program out there for doing Bible studies (and reading Bible books, and applicable maps, and commentaries and dictionaries). It's called e-Sword:

http://www.e-sword.net...

From what I've seen, it's got literally everything you could ever want including books and references that would cost hundreds of dollars and almost all free (or atleast as much as you could use unless you devour large books at a single sitting).

It's got a couple little quirks, but for the most part it's very well laid out.

The way it works is that you download the program and then you have to go find modules to load into it.

Two of the best sites I've found for downloading modules:
http://www.biblemodulesresource.com...
http://www.biblesupport.com...

I've got no buy in on this. I was just very impressed and thought if you were interested in Bible study, this program is a huge help. Let me know what you think.

The one thing it certainly can't give you is the truth, there is only one source for that, and they likewise give you all the study aids you could wish for online and free. You don't even have to clutter up your hard drive with any of it unless you choose to do so.

Nor do you have to register, nor give out any personal information in any way, unless you choose to do so.

I t really couldn't be freer, easier or safer.

It's www.jw.org

Really, MCB...I don't hijack your threads with random nonsense, don't do it to mine.

I never post nonsense, and certainly not random, I am merely pointing out the superior alternative t what you mention.

We're all aware of your views on JW doctrine. This post was to talk about e-Sword, which I'm assuming you have neither downloaded, nor looked into other than possibly a cursory glance and this thread. In other words, you don't know what you're talking about.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/4/2013 12:43:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/4/2013 12:07:01 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/4/2013 11:59:16 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/4/2013 11:20:11 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/4/2013 9:14:26 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/4/2013 9:03:22 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At the risk of this sounding like spam (and it's really not, just a review of a free study tool) I wanted to let everyone know there's an excellent program out there for doing Bible studies (and reading Bible books, and applicable maps, and commentaries and dictionaries). It's called e-Sword:

http://www.e-sword.net...

From what I've seen, it's got literally everything you could ever want including books and references that would cost hundreds of dollars and almost all free (or atleast as much as you could use unless you devour large books at a single sitting).

It's got a couple little quirks, but for the most part it's very well laid out.

The way it works is that you download the program and then you have to go find modules to load into it.

Two of the best sites I've found for downloading modules:
http://www.biblemodulesresource.com...
http://www.biblesupport.com...

I've got no buy in on this. I was just very impressed and thought if you were interested in Bible study, this program is a huge help. Let me know what you think.

The one thing it certainly can't give you is the truth, there is only one source for that, and they likewise give you all the study aids you could wish for online and free. You don't even have to clutter up your hard drive with any of it unless you choose to do so.

Nor do you have to register, nor give out any personal information in any way, unless you choose to do so.

I t really couldn't be freer, easier or safer.

It's www.jw.org

Really, MCB...I don't hijack your threads with random nonsense, don't do it to mine.

I never post nonsense, and certainly not random, I am merely pointing out the superior alternative t what you mention.

We're all aware of your views on JW doctrine. This post was to talk about e-Sword, which I'm assuming you have neither downloaded, nor looked into other than possibly a cursory glance and this thread. In other words, you don't know what you're talking about.

If you really knew what my views were then you would know they are dominated by scripture, the word of God, not that of any man, not even Jehovah Witnesses.

As long as their doctrine lines up with scripture I will support them, but should they ever vary from it they will leave me behind. I follow Christ not any man.

I am not interested in anything other than what the bible really teaches and certainly at present neither are they.

Long may they continue in that course.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/4/2013 3:08:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/4/2013 1:22:26 PM, Naysayer wrote:
Anyway...e-Sword.

Whatever, it is our choice, as it is for everyone. The truth doesn't suit everyone. It frightens the life out of some, which is ironic since it sets you from from bandage to Satan.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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10/4/2013 4:20:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
MadCornish, I can't even find the Bible on jw.org. I just looked - and please note that I am NOT saying that it's not there. It very well might be. I'm saying that I couldn't find it.

E-sword is in most respects an excellent resource, with two exceptions. The commentaries are slanted and unnecessary, and could have just as well - and more accurately - been left out. All one has to do is click on "preview" and look at the commentary on Romans 8: 29-30. That's some explanation they give there, huh? The other is that they could have, and should have, included much more thorough and standard Greek lexicons. Strongs is an abbreviated lexicon, at best - and that's what it was designed to be. I wish they had Liddell, Scott, and Jones - or Thayer's - or Arndt and Gingrich's work. Nonetheless, e-sword is a very good, very useful, very easy-to-use study tool, although I would advise people to be careful on the commentaries.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/4/2013 5:01:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/4/2013 4:20:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
MadCornish, I can't even find the Bible on jw.org. I just looked - and please note that I am NOT saying that it's not there. It very well might be. I'm saying that I couldn't find it.

E-sword is in most respects an excellent resource, with two exceptions. The commentaries are slanted and unnecessary, and could have just as well - and more accurately - been left out. All one has to do is click on "preview" and look at the commentary on Romans 8: 29-30. That's some explanation they give there, huh? The other is that they could have, and should have, included much more thorough and standard Greek lexicons. Strongs is an abbreviated lexicon, at best - and that's what it was designed to be. I wish they had Liddell, Scott, and Jones - or Thayer's - or Arndt and Gingrich's work. Nonetheless, e-sword is a very good, very useful, very easy-to-use study tool, although I would advise people to be careful on the commentaries.

OK no problem. I am surprised you couldn't access it all though, as it is an easy site to navigate and it too me a few minutes to find everything completely without help, since I could not get help in my current state.

There are two versions online, the reference and the ordinary one.

On the home page, just under the heading "Jehovah's Witnesses" you will see a menu bar.

Click on Publications.

You then get, amongst other things a menu on the left hand side headed "Featured Items".

This is where you can rad online or down load a number of different publications

The top item is Bible. If you click on that you get the "standard version" of the NWT. You can read it online or download it in various text and audio formats.

The bottom item is "Online Library" . This is the area for the most serious bible students.

Click on that and you get search section which enables you to search the Reference bible and other publications. When searching it is important to remember to use American spelling rather than English.

From under the search bar you can access directly the reference bible itself with all it's appendices.

Under the publications link, you can access a number of other useful publications such as the Insight Book which is their Bible Encyclopaedia, the "Reasoning from the Scriptures" book, as used in the field ministry, which lists the scripture relevant to a number of bible topics using scriptures and some external quotes also, complete with references, as well as a number of WTBTS publications.

Finally in the many bar you can access the "daily texts " which gives you the daily text as well as the schedule for the theocratic ministry school showing the subjects the various students will be working on. I notice the schedule has changed since I last attended and now only has there student talks instead of 4.

The next bit is the Watchtower study article which will be studied that week and the songs used for it. The song which leads in to the Public Talk cannot be listed because the speaker who is giving the talk, whether a local or visiting elder, chooses that one.

Public talks are usually given by local elders but there is also a sort of "elder exchange" where elders from one congregation give a public talk at another congregation, and one of the local elders gives a talk at another congregation.

Does that help?
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/4/2013 5:08:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/4/2013 4:20:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
MadCornish, I can't even find the Bible on jw.org. I just looked - and please note that I am NOT saying that it's not there. It very well might be. I'm saying that I couldn't find it.

E-sword is in most respects an excellent resource, with two exceptions. The commentaries are slanted and unnecessary, and could have just as well - and more accurately - been left out. All one has to do is click on "preview" and look at the commentary on Romans 8: 29-30. That's some explanation they give there, huh? The other is that they could have, and should have, included much more thorough and standard Greek lexicons. Strongs is an abbreviated lexicon, at best - and that's what it was designed to be. I wish they had Liddell, Scott, and Jones - or Thayer's - or Arndt and Gingrich's work. Nonetheless, e-sword is a very good, very useful, very easy-to-use study tool, although I would advise people to be careful on the commentaries.

That's what e-Sword is, a basic program that you add to. The lexicon you're talking about is available for it:

http://www.biblesupport.com...
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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10/4/2013 5:31:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/4/2013 5:08:46 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/4/2013 4:20:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
MadCornish, I can't even find the Bible on jw.org. I just looked - and please note that I am NOT saying that it's not there. It very well might be. I'm saying that I couldn't find it.

E-sword is in most respects an excellent resource, with two exceptions. The commentaries are slanted and unnecessary, and could have just as well - and more accurately - been left out. All one has to do is click on "preview" and look at the commentary on Romans 8: 29-30. That's some explanation they give there, huh? The other is that they could have, and should have, included much more thorough and standard Greek lexicons. Strongs is an abbreviated lexicon, at best - and that's what it was designed to be. I wish they had Liddell, Scott, and Jones - or Thayer's - or Arndt and Gingrich's work. Nonetheless, e-sword is a very good, very useful, very easy-to-use study tool, although I would advise people to be careful on the commentaries.

That's what e-Sword is, a basic program that you add to. The lexicon you're talking about is available for it:

http://www.biblesupport.com...

Does one have to pay for all or some of these additions to the basic program?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/4/2013 5:38:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/4/2013 5:31:37 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/4/2013 5:08:46 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/4/2013 4:20:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
MadCornish, I can't even find the Bible on jw.org. I just looked - and please note that I am NOT saying that it's not there. It very well might be. I'm saying that I couldn't find it.

E-sword is in most respects an excellent resource, with two exceptions. The commentaries are slanted and unnecessary, and could have just as well - and more accurately - been left out. All one has to do is click on "preview" and look at the commentary on Romans 8: 29-30. That's some explanation they give there, huh? The other is that they could have, and should have, included much more thorough and standard Greek lexicons. Strongs is an abbreviated lexicon, at best - and that's what it was designed to be. I wish they had Liddell, Scott, and Jones - or Thayer's - or Arndt and Gingrich's work. Nonetheless, e-sword is a very good, very useful, very easy-to-use study tool, although I would advise people to be careful on the commentaries.

That's what e-Sword is, a basic program that you add to. The lexicon you're talking about is available for it:

http://www.biblesupport.com...

Does one have to pay for all or some of these additions to the basic program?

Biblesupport.com you have to join and they have a pretty hefty copyright agreement to go through but most of their stuff is free and membership is free. I think you might have to get their gold agreement for some of it which may cost money but it doesn't look like yours does.
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/4/2013 5:42:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/4/2013 5:31:37 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/4/2013 5:08:46 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/4/2013 4:20:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
MadCornish, I can't even find the Bible on jw.org. I just looked - and please note that I am NOT saying that it's not there. It very well might be. I'm saying that I couldn't find it.

E-sword is in most respects an excellent resource, with two exceptions. The commentaries are slanted and unnecessary, and could have just as well - and more accurately - been left out. All one has to do is click on "preview" and look at the commentary on Romans 8: 29-30. That's some explanation they give there, huh? The other is that they could have, and should have, included much more thorough and standard Greek lexicons. Strongs is an abbreviated lexicon, at best - and that's what it was designed to be. I wish they had Liddell, Scott, and Jones - or Thayer's - or Arndt and Gingrich's work. Nonetheless, e-sword is a very good, very useful, very easy-to-use study tool, although I would advise people to be careful on the commentaries.

That's what e-Sword is, a basic program that you add to. The lexicon you're talking about is available for it:

http://www.biblesupport.com...

Does one have to pay for all or some of these additions to the basic program?

Just downloaded it and it is free.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/4/2013 6:06:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/4/2013 5:42:39 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/4/2013 5:31:37 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/4/2013 5:08:46 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/4/2013 4:20:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
MadCornish, I can't even find the Bible on jw.org. I just looked - and please note that I am NOT saying that it's not there. It very well might be. I'm saying that I couldn't find it.

E-sword is in most respects an excellent resource, with two exceptions. The commentaries are slanted and unnecessary, and could have just as well - and more accurately - been left out. All one has to do is click on "preview" and look at the commentary on Romans 8: 29-30. That's some explanation they give there, huh? The other is that they could have, and should have, included much more thorough and standard Greek lexicons. Strongs is an abbreviated lexicon, at best - and that's what it was designed to be. I wish they had Liddell, Scott, and Jones - or Thayer's - or Arndt and Gingrich's work. Nonetheless, e-sword is a very good, very useful, very easy-to-use study tool, although I would advise people to be careful on the commentaries.

That's what e-Sword is, a basic program that you add to. The lexicon you're talking about is available for it:

http://www.biblesupport.com...

Does one have to pay for all or some of these additions to the basic program?

Just downloaded it and it is free.

At least with jw.org everything is free and no registration or login is required, even for the downloads, also free.plus it mostly available online in an awful lot of languages (see the language drop down menu on the home page).

No names, no pack drill one might say.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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10/4/2013 8:03:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
MCB: "At least with jw.org everything is free and no registration or login is required, even for the downloads, also free.plus it mostly available online in an awful lot of languages (see the language drop down menu on the home page).

No names, no pack drill one might say."

Anna: Yeah - and that's about what it's worth. In fact, they should pay people for clicking on it. I searched that site through and through, including everything you went through, and have not seen one decent Bible translation. I actually thought it might at least be in the reference section, but no, that's just an expanded version of the same thing. I would even take the New American Standard, although the "improvements" over the 1901 version are at times are inferior to the original. There are some instances in which the old King James is superior to the American Standard, but the point is: jw.org employs one of the worst Bible translations under the sun.

Such a site ought have some Greek grammars and a selection of Greek-English lexicons. You said it has a section for "serious Bible students." How in the world can someone "seriously study" the Bible without having Greek grammars, Greek lexicons, and a selection of decent Bible translations?

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

"Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen." (ASV)

In that case, the old KJV hit it right on the money - and the American Standard missed it. The ASV does not state a mistruth at all: it simply changes the point of the passage slightly. That's why one needs more than one translation, and it is also why one needs a grammar and lexicon.

The jw.org site is a very useful site for determining what Jehovah's Witnesses currently believe. That's about all it is good for. I can't believe you'd be referring someone to a reference site for Bible study, and the entire site does not even contain a concordance.

By the way, I looked at Heb 11: 1 out of curiosity in the New World whatever-it-is:

"Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld."

Totally wrong. Heb 11: 1 does not teach that faith is an expectation anything, assured or not. And Heb 11: 1 does not teach that faith is the evident demonstration of anything, seen or unseen. About all I can say is that the NWT did not teach an untruth in rendering the passage.

I think Naysayer has it right. The e-sword site is just a basic site and a very thorough one to which one can add the reference materials that one desires. I had heard of it, but I think I'll DL it and start using it because it puts all the info that I already use in one place.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Composer
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10/5/2013 3:29:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/4/2013 12:43:03 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I never post nonsense,
LMAO! apart from e.g. the J.w jebus wasn't a 100% human being but (your latest guess!) a morphed supernatural angel called Mikey?

At 10/4/2013 12:43:03 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
and certainly not random, I am merely pointing out the superior alternative t what you mention.
The J.ws are another Cult proven also grossly inferior to Truth & are repeated self-contradicting buffoons and agents of their Satan!

e.g. -

1. An Angel that worships Jesus
"Hence it is said, "Let all the angels of God worship him;" [that must include Michael, the chief angel, hence Michael is not the Son of God] and the reason is, because He has "by inheritance obtained a more excellent Name than they."" Zion's Watch Tower 1879 Nov p.4

2. The Pope and Antichrist
"Michael and his angels"--the papacy and its supporters--fought against the dragon--pagan rulers, etc.,-- and the great dragon was cast out of heaven. Zion's Watch Tower 1879 December p.6

3. Michael was the pre-human jebus
"Can it be that he who was called Michael--Jehovah's chief-messenger--was none other than our Lord in his pre-human condition? we conclude that HE must have been "chief messenger." " Zion's Watch Tower 1883 June p.3

4. The Pope again
"Michael.--- "Who as God," the Pope." The Finished Mystery 1917 p.188

5. Jebus in heaven
Since the 1930's Michael is explained to be the heavenly name for Jebus.

ALL direct from the J.ws fallible Jehovah? LMAO!

At 10/4/2013 12:43:03 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I am not interested in anything other than what the bible really teaches and certainly at present neither are they.
Another lie from your Satanic lips!

YOU & ALL J.ws are FORCED to believe whatever is contained in the latest Watchtowers, Awakes etc.

Failure to comply with even known spurious teachings, you face disfellowship & subsequent shunning!

Proof of this is contained in the Transcript of the Douglas-Walsh Trial in Scotland 1954 from the testimony of Fred Franz included!

The J.ws demand uniformity regardless of Truth & admit to being a FALSE PROPHET!

Transcript from Douglas Walsh trial - Scotland - 1954
. . . . Q. Back to the point now. A false prophesy was promulgated?
A. I agree that.

Q. It had to be accepted by Jehovah"s Witnesses?
A. That is correct.


Q. If a member of Jehovah"s Witnesses took the view himself that prophesy was wrong and said so he would be disfellowshipped?
A. Yes, if he said so and kept persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erronious and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across then there is disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching. When a change comes it should come from the proper source, the head of the organisation, the governing body, not from the bottom upwards, because everybody would have ideas, and the organisation would disintegrate and go in a thousand different directions. Our purpose is to have unity.

Q. Unity at all costs?
A. Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah God is using our organisation, the governing body of our organisation to direct it, even though mistakes are made from time to time.

Q. And unity based upon an enforced acceptance of false prophecy?
A. That is conceded to be true.

Q. And the person who expressed his view, as you say, that it was wrong, and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the Covenant, if he was baptized?
A. That is correct.

Q. And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death?
A. I think - - -

Q. Would you say yes or no?
A. I will answer yes, unhesitatingly.

Q. Do you call that religion?
A. It certainly is.

Q. Do you call it Christianity?
A. I certainly do.

. . . .

Fred Franz, then vice-president of the Society, also answered questions for the attorney for the Ministry of Labour and National Service.

Q. In addition to these regular publications do you prepare and issue a number of theological pamphlets and books from time to time?
A. Yes.

Q. Can you tell me this; are these theological publications and the semi-monthly periodicals used for discussion of statements of doctrine?
A. Yes.

Q. Are these statements of doctrine held to be authoritative within the Society?
A. Yes.

Q. Is their acceptance a matter of choice, or is it obligatory on all those who wish to be and remain members of the Society?
A. It is obligatory. . . . . . . . .

The British government counsellor later directed attention to certain teachings that the Society had in time rejected, including some involving specific dates. What, he asked, if someone, at the time when such teaching was promulgated, had seen the error in it and had therefore not accepted it? What would the organization"s attitude toward such one be? The testimony explains:

Q. Did (Pastor Russell) not fix 1874 as some other crucial date?
A. 1874 used to be understood as the date of Jesus" Second Coming spiritually.

Q. Do you say, used to be understood?
A. That is right.

Q. That was issued as a fact which was to be accepted by all who were Jehovah"s Witnesses?
A. Yes.

Q. That is no longer now accepted, is it?
A. No.

. . . . . . . .
Q. But it was a calculation which is no longer accepted by the Board of Directors of the Society?
A. That is correct.

Q. So that am I correct, I am just anxious to canvas the position; it became the bounden duty of the Witnesses to accept this miscalculation?
A. Yes . . . . . . . .

Q. So that what is published as the truth today by the Society may have to be admitted to be wrong in a few years?
A. We have to wait and see.

Q. And in the meantime the body of Jehovah"s Witnesses have been following error?
A. They have been following misconstructions on the Scriptures.

Q. Error?
A. Well, error.

. . . .

Q. A Witness has no alternative, has he, to accept as authoritative and to be obeyed instructions issued in the "Watchtower" or the "Informant" or "Awake"?
A. He must accept those.

(Source: Watchtower.observer.org)

Hence ALL you J.ws are mindless drones that must obey whatever crap Bethel belches out until they belch out even the opposite!

Your vindicated mentor & Saviour moi!
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/5/2013 5:09:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/5/2013 3:29:46 AM, Composer wrote:
At 10/4/2013 12:43:03 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I never post nonsense,
LMAO! apart from e.g. the J.w jebus wasn't a 100% human being but (your latest guess!) a morphed supernatural angel called Mikey?

At 10/4/2013 12:43:03 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
and certainly not random, I am merely pointing out the superior alternative t what you mention.
The J.ws are another Cult proven also grossly inferior to Truth & are repeated self-contradicting buffoons and agents of their Satan!

e.g. -

1. An Angel that worships Jesus
"Hence it is said, "Let all the angels of God worship him;" [that must include Michael, the chief angel, hence Michael is not the Son of God] and the reason is, because He has "by inheritance obtained a more excellent Name than they."" Zion's Watch Tower 1879 Nov p.4

2. The Pope and Antichrist
"Michael and his angels"--the papacy and its supporters--fought against the dragon--pagan rulers, etc.,-- and the great dragon was cast out of heaven. Zion's Watch Tower 1879 December p.6

3. Michael was the pre-human jebus
"Can it be that he who was called Michael--Jehovah's chief-messenger--was none other than our Lord in his pre-human condition? we conclude that HE must have been "chief messenger." " Zion's Watch Tower 1883 June p.3

4. The Pope again
"Michael.--- "Who as God," the Pope." The Finished Mystery 1917 p.188

5. Jebus in heaven
Since the 1930's Michael is explained to be the heavenly name for Jebus.

ALL direct from the J.ws fallible Jehovah? LMAO!

At 10/4/2013 12:43:03 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I am not interested in anything other than what the bible really teaches and certainly at present neither are they.
Another lie from your Satanic lips!

YOU & ALL J.ws are FORCED to believe whatever is contained in the latest Watchtowers, Awakes etc.

Failure to comply with even known spurious teachings, you face disfellowship & subsequent shunning!

Proof of this is contained in the Transcript of the Douglas-Walsh Trial in Scotland 1954 from the testimony of Fred Franz included!

The J.ws demand uniformity regardless of Truth & admit to being a FALSE PROPHET!

Transcript from Douglas Walsh trial - Scotland - 1954
. . . . Q. Back to the point now. A false prophesy was promulgated?
A. I agree that.

Q. It had to be accepted by Jehovah"s Witnesses?
A. That is correct.


Q. If a member of Jehovah"s Witnesses took the view himself that prophesy was wrong and said so he would be disfellowshipped?
A. Yes, if he said so and kept persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erronious and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across then there is disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching. When a change comes it should come from the proper source, the head of the organisation, the governing body, not from the bottom upwards, because everybody would have ideas, and the organisation would disintegrate and go in a thousand different directions. Our purpose is to have unity.

Q. Unity at all costs?
A. Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah God is using our organisation, the governing body of our organisation to direct it, even though mistakes are made from time to time.

Q. And unity based upon an enforced acceptance of false prophecy?
A. That is conceded to be true.

Q. And the person who expressed his view, as you say, that it was wrong, and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the Covenant, if he was baptized?
A. That is correct.

Q. And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death?
A. I think - - -

Q. Would you say yes or no?
A. I will answer yes, unhesitatingly.

Q. Do you call that religion?
A. It certainly is.

Q. Do you call it Christianity?
A. I certainly do.

. . . .

Fred Franz, then vice-president of the Society, also answered questions for the attorney for the Ministry of Labour and National Service.


Q. In addition to these regular publications do you prepare and issue a number of theological pamphlets and books from time to time?
A. Yes.

Q. Can you tell me this; are these theological publications and the semi-monthly periodicals used for discussion of statements of doctrine?
A. Yes.

Q. Are these statements of doctrine held to be authoritative within the Society?
A. Yes.

Q. Is their acceptance a matter of choice, or is it obligatory on all those who wish to be and remain members of the Society?
A. It is obligatory. . . . . . . . .

The British government counsellor later directed attention to certain teachings that the Society had in time rejected, including some involving specific dates. What, he asked, if someone, at the time when such teaching was promulgated, had seen the error in it and had therefore not accepted it? What would the organization"s attitude toward such one be? The testimony explains:


Q. Did (Pastor Russell) not fix 1874 as some other crucial date?
A. 1874 used to be understood as the date of Jesus" Second Coming spiritually.

Q. Do you say, used to be understood?
A. That is right.

Q. That was issued as a fact which was to be accepted by all who were Jehovah"s Witnesses?
A. Yes.

Q. That is no longer now accepted, is it?
A. No.

. . . . . . . .
Q. But it was a calculation which is no longer accepted by the Board of Directors of the Society?
A. That is correct.

Q. So that am I correct, I am just anxious to canvas the position; it became the bounden duty of the Witnesses to accept this miscalculation?
A. Yes . . . . . . . .

Q. So that what is published as the truth today by the Society may have to be admitted to be wrong in a few years?
A. We have to wait and see.

Q. And in the meantime the body of Jehovah"s Witnesses have been following error?
A. They have been following misconstructions on the Scriptures.

Q. Error?
A. Well, error.

. . . .

Q. A Witness has no alternative, has he, to accept as authoritative and to be obeyed instructions issued in the "Watchtower" or the "Informant" or "Awake"?
A. He must accept those.

(Source: Watchtower.observer.org)

Hence ALL you J.ws are mindless drones that must obey whatever crap Bethel belches out until they belch out even the opposite!

Your vindicated mentor & Saviour moi!


The usual load of rubbish from you I see. Not even worth replying to.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/5/2013 5:13:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/4/2013 8:03:32 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "At least with jw.org everything is free and no registration or login is required, even for the downloads, also free.plus it mostly available online in an awful lot of languages (see the language drop down menu on the home page).

No names, no pack drill one might say."

Anna: Yeah - and that's about what it's worth. In fact, they should pay people for clicking on it. I searched that site through and through, including everything you went through, and have not seen one decent Bible translation. I actually thought it might at least be in the reference section, but no, that's just an expanded version of the same thing. I would even take the New American Standard, although the "improvements" over the 1901 version are at times are inferior to the original. There are some instances in which the old King James is superior to the American Standard, but the point is: jw.org employs one of the worst Bible translations under the sun.

Such a site ought have some Greek grammars and a selection of Greek-English lexicons. You said it has a section for "serious Bible students." How in the world can someone "seriously study" the Bible without having Greek grammars, Greek lexicons, and a selection of decent Bible translations?

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

"Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen." (ASV)

In that case, the old KJV hit it right on the money - and the American Standard missed it. The ASV does not state a mistruth at all: it simply changes the point of the passage slightly. That's why one needs more than one translation, and it is also why one needs a grammar and lexicon.

The jw.org site is a very useful site for determining what Jehovah's Witnesses currently believe. That's about all it is good for. I can't believe you'd be referring someone to a reference site for Bible study, and the entire site does not even contain a concordance.

By the way, I looked at Heb 11: 1 out of curiosity in the New World whatever-it-is:

"Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld."

Totally wrong. Heb 11: 1 does not teach that faith is an expectation anything, assured or not. And Heb 11: 1 does not teach that faith is the evident demonstration of anything, seen or unseen. About all I can say is that the NWT did not teach an untruth in rendering the passage.

I think Naysayer has it right. The e-sword site is just a basic site and a very thorough one to which one can add the reference materials that one desires. I had heard of it, but I think I'll DL it and start using it because it puts all the info that I already use in one place.

Really?

Hebrews 11:1
YLT(i) 1 And faith is of things hoped for a confidence, of matters not seen a conviction,

Hebrews 11:1
ASV(i) 1 Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.

Hebrews 11:1
KJV(i) 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Even your own preferred translation disagrees with you. Every one of those, and others as well, speak of assured hopes which is the same as assured expectations. If it is assured, you expect it, simple as.

But of course, as always you know better even than God.
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/5/2013 5:54:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/4/2013 6:06:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/4/2013 5:42:39 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/4/2013 5:31:37 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/4/2013 5:08:46 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/4/2013 4:20:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
MadCornish, I can't even find the Bible on jw.org. I just looked - and please note that I am NOT saying that it's not there. It very well might be. I'm saying that I couldn't find it.

E-sword is in most respects an excellent resource, with two exceptions. The commentaries are slanted and unnecessary, and could have just as well - and more accurately - been left out. All one has to do is click on "preview" and look at the commentary on Romans 8: 29-30. That's some explanation they give there, huh? The other is that they could have, and should have, included much more thorough and standard Greek lexicons. Strongs is an abbreviated lexicon, at best - and that's what it was designed to be. I wish they had Liddell, Scott, and Jones - or Thayer's - or Arndt and Gingrich's work. Nonetheless, e-sword is a very good, very useful, very easy-to-use study tool, although I would advise people to be careful on the commentaries.

That's what e-Sword is, a basic program that you add to. The lexicon you're talking about is available for it:

http://www.biblesupport.com...

Does one have to pay for all or some of these additions to the basic program?

Just downloaded it and it is free.

At least with jw.org everything is free and no registration or login is required, even for the downloads, also free.plus it mostly available online in an awful lot of languages (see the language drop down menu on the home page).

No names, no pack drill one might say.

You still don't know what you're talking about. If you're going to make comparisons, atleast download it and check it out first. You might like it.

There's no reason you have to sign up for Biblesupport. I did because I like having everything in one place and it's a huge site with lots of downloads. There are plenty of other sites to choose from if you're concerned about it.

All e-Sword happens to be is a tool to keep your concordances, your study materials, your dictionaries, and any other references (plus many books) all in one place electronically. You can modify it as you see fit. Downloading modules is really simple. It comes with a few basics and that's it.

It even allows you to make notes and print them out, so it's really easy to write up a sermon or lesson and everything is right there. That's all it is.

I'm not sure what your problem is, but if you're only doing it to do a plug for the Jehovah's Witnesses, I recommend starting your own post or editing your signature.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/5/2013 6:45:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/5/2013 5:54:54 AM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/4/2013 6:06:13 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/4/2013 5:42:39 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/4/2013 5:31:37 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/4/2013 5:08:46 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/4/2013 4:20:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
MadCornish, I can't even find the Bible on jw.org. I just looked - and please note that I am NOT saying that it's not there. It very well might be. I'm saying that I couldn't find it.

E-sword is in most respects an excellent resource, with two exceptions. The commentaries are slanted and unnecessary, and could have just as well - and more accurately - been left out. All one has to do is click on "preview" and look at the commentary on Romans 8: 29-30. That's some explanation they give there, huh? The other is that they could have, and should have, included much more thorough and standard Greek lexicons. Strongs is an abbreviated lexicon, at best - and that's what it was designed to be. I wish they had Liddell, Scott, and Jones - or Thayer's - or Arndt and Gingrich's work. Nonetheless, e-sword is a very good, very useful, very easy-to-use study tool, although I would advise people to be careful on the commentaries.

That's what e-Sword is, a basic program that you add to. The lexicon you're talking about is available for it:

http://www.biblesupport.com...

Does one have to pay for all or some of these additions to the basic program?

Just downloaded it and it is free.

At least with jw.org everything is free and no registration or login is required, even for the downloads, also free.plus it mostly available online in an awful lot of languages (see the language drop down menu on the home page).

No names, no pack drill one might say.

You still don't know what you're talking about. If you're going to make comparisons, atleast download it and check it out first. You might like it.

There's no reason you have to sign up for Biblesupport. I did because I like having everything in one place and it's a huge site with lots of downloads. There are plenty of other sites to choose from if you're concerned about it.

All e-Sword happens to be is a tool to keep your concordances, your study materials, your dictionaries, and any other references (plus many books) all in one place electronically. You can modify it as you see fit. Downloading modules is really simple. It comes with a few basics and that's it.

It even allows you to make notes and print them out, so it's really easy to write up a sermon or lesson and everything is right there. That's all it is.

I'm not sure what your problem is, but if you're only doing it to do a plug for the Jehovah's Witnesses, I recommend starting your own post or editing your signature.

I don't have a problem.

I already now that the truth cannot be found there because I have found where it is, and as long as it stays that way then I shall not look elsewhere.

There is only one real truth in scripture, and only one path to find it. That has always been the case and always will be.

What I am making a "plug" for is for truth and the only path which leads to the real life Matthew 7:13,14 "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it." because having found that "cramped road" leading to life I want as many as possible on it with me.

Neither I, nor Jehovah's Witnesses have anything to gain from it apart from it other than another eternal life saved, and that is all they, or I, want. There is no requirement for financial gain since the got free, and they give free, as Christ said all his followers should. No true follower of Christ profits from his, or of course her, discipleship financially.

No, I am simply following Christ's instructions and offering people the chance of eternal life in human perfection on a paradise earth in perfect health and perfect peace. It is up to you, and them, if it is accepted. I can do non more than sow the seeds of truth.

As for starting my own threads, I do when and if I see a need, and will continue to do so. And anyone is welcome on them to discuss anything of scriptural import.

Just like Jehovah's Witnesses, I am nothing more than a slave of God and of Christ, and I hope, before too long, to be able to work alongside my fellow slaves again, but that, as everything, is entirely up to God.

If I can help anyone else to join us on that road to life, then I shall.
annanicole
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10/5/2013 2:07:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anna: "By the way, I looked at Heb 11: 1 out of curiosity in the New World whatever-it-is:

"Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld."

Totally wrong. Heb 11: 1 does not teach that faith is an expectation anything, assured or not. And Heb 11: 1 does not teach that faith is the evident demonstration of anything, seen or unseen. About all I can say is that the NWT did not teach an untruth in rendering the passage."

MCB: "Really?

Hebrews 11:1
YLT(i) 1 And faith is of things hoped for a confidence, of matters not seen a conviction,

Hebrews 11:1
ASV(i) 1 Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.

Hebrews 11:1
KJV(i) 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Even your own preferred translation disagrees with you. Every one of those, and others as well, speak of assured hopes which is the same as assured expectations. If it is assured, you expect it, simple as.

But of course, as always you know better even than God.'


Anna: The KJV has it absolutely correct:

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

I had already stated that, as you may note from this statement copied and pasted from the prior post:

"In that case, the old KJV hit it right on the money - and the American Standard missed it. The ASV does not state a mistruth at all: it simply changes the point of the passage slightly. That's why one needs more than one translation, and it is also why one needs a grammar and lexicon."

The whole point was that the little jw.org site doesn't even have a correct Bible, a concordance, a lexicon, and Greek grammar. Zilch. Yet you say it is for "serious Bible students." Pffffffffffffft.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
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10/5/2013 5:05:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/5/2013 2:07:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
Anna: "By the way, I looked at Heb 11: 1 out of curiosity in the New World whatever-it-is:

"Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld."

Totally wrong. Heb 11: 1 does not teach that faith is an expectation anything, assured or not. And Heb 11: 1 does not teach that faith is the evident demonstration of anything, seen or unseen. About all I can say is that the NWT did not teach an untruth in rendering the passage."

MCB: "Really?

Hebrews 11:1
YLT(i) 1 And faith is of things hoped for a confidence, of matters not seen a conviction,

Hebrews 11:1
ASV(i) 1 Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.

Hebrews 11:1
KJV(i) 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Even your own preferred translation disagrees with you. Every one of those, and others as well, speak of assured hopes which is the same as assured expectations. If it is assured, you expect it, simple as.

But of course, as always you know better even than God.'


Anna: The KJV has it absolutely correct:

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (KJV)

Which in essence is exactly teh same as the NWT says.


I had already stated that, as you may note from this statement copied and pasted from the prior post:

"In that case, the old KJV hit it right on the money - and the American Standard missed it. The ASV does not state a mistruth at all: it simply changes the point of the passage slightly. That's why one needs more than one translation, and it is also why one needs a grammar and lexicon."

The whole point was that the little jw.org site doesn't even have a correct Bible, a concordance, a lexicon, and Greek grammar. Zilch. Yet you say it is for "serious Bible students." Pffffffffffffft.

For the serious bible student, yes, and in fact it does have a concordance, though it doesn't call it that. The search bar does that job , but also, part of the Reference bible is a concordance "Bible words indexed".

The point is that it is for serious bible students, not for linguists, though the footnotes give you meanings for any particularly important words.

After all scripture does tell us not to get involved in disputes over words, despite the fact that sometimes I have stupidly let you draw me into such petty arguments.

It is teh essence of scripture that matters not the detail of teh words, especially since they have been translated and either deliberately or, sometimes unintentionally corrupted by those who believe in that worst fo false Gods, the trinity.
annanicole
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10/5/2013 5:57:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for" is not "now faith is the substance of things hoped for"

The NWT has faith being an "expectation". The KJV has faith being the "supporting structure" or "underpinning" or "foundation" - the SUBstrata. That's what "hupo" meaning: sub or under. Faith is "that which stands under" the things for which we hope. That's all the passage says. That's what hupostasis means. It does not mean "assured expectation".

While faith may well be the "assured expectation" - and indeed it is - Heb 11: 1 doesn't teach it. I said the NWT doesn't teach an untruth on the passage. It conveys the wrong shade of meaning to it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."