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Is God needed to explain the universe?

Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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10/7/2013 11:52:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
All the other explanations have important logical flaws.

If God didn't exist there wouldn't be Time (ie nothing new would have "ever" happened).
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/8/2013 10:16:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/7/2013 11:52:36 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
All the other explanations have important logical flaws.

Like what?


If God didn't exist there wouldn't be Time (ie nothing new would have "ever" happened).

Says who?
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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10/8/2013 11:18:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/8/2013 10:16:57 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/7/2013 11:52:36 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
All the other explanations have important logical flaws.

Like what?

Infinitely recurring universe, or basically any un-sentient or finite cause.


If God didn't exist there wouldn't be Time (ie nothing new would have "ever" happened).

Says who?

Reason.

Time itself is a witness.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/8/2013 11:25:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/8/2013 11:18:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 10/8/2013 10:16:57 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/7/2013 11:52:36 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
All the other explanations have important logical flaws.

Like what?

Infinitely recurring universe, or basically any un-sentient or finite cause.

First of all, those aren't even close to the only options. Secondly, what are the logical flaws you speak of?



If God didn't exist there wouldn't be Time (ie nothing new would have "ever" happened).

Says who?

Reason.

Time itself is a witness.

How does reason support the claim that if God didn't exist, time wouldn't exist? This just seems like a bare-assertion.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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10/8/2013 11:32:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/8/2013 11:25:53 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/8/2013 11:18:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 10/8/2013 10:16:57 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/7/2013 11:52:36 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
All the other explanations have important logical flaws.

Like what?

Infinitely recurring universe, or basically any un-sentient or finite cause.

First of all, those aren't even close to the only options. Secondly, what are the logical flaws you speak of?


Still the only options that can compete with God as explanation to the universe.

The Logical flaw is that a recurring universe still needs a first time ie t=0 , when it first existed, because a universe depends on both space and time!



If God didn't exist there wouldn't be Time (ie nothing new would have "ever" happened).

Says who?

Reason.

Time itself is a witness.

How does reason support the claim that if God didn't exist, time wouldn't exist? This just seems like a bare-assertion.

The what could possibly be behind the existence of time? an un-sentient being cannot be behind it for it doesn't have any intention.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/8/2013 11:37:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/8/2013 11:32:00 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 10/8/2013 11:25:53 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/8/2013 11:18:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 10/8/2013 10:16:57 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/7/2013 11:52:36 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
All the other explanations have important logical flaws.

Like what?

Infinitely recurring universe, or basically any un-sentient or finite cause.

First of all, those aren't even close to the only options. Secondly, what are the logical flaws you speak of?


Still the only options that can compete with God as explanation to the universe.

Not really, this assumes there needs to be a causal explanation of the universe in the first place.


The Logical flaw is that a recurring universe still needs a first time ie t=0 , when it first existed, because a universe depends on both space and time!

The universe doesn't depend on space and time, space and time depend on the universe as they are just variables of it, so the only logical flaws I see are with regards to your position.




If God didn't exist there wouldn't be Time (ie nothing new would have "ever" happened).

Says who?

Reason.

Time itself is a witness.

How does reason support the claim that if God didn't exist, time wouldn't exist? This just seems like a bare-assertion.

The what could possibly be behind the existence of time?

There are plenty of options, but why even assume there has to be something behind the existence of time? That just leads to an infinite regress, because if something has to be behind the existence of time, then I can just ask what is behind that, and so on.

an un-sentient being cannot be behind it for it doesn't have any intention.

What makes you think intention is required?
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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10/8/2013 11:52:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/8/2013 11:37:30 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote: : : At 10/8/2013 11:32:00 AM, Fruitytree wrote: : : : At 10/8/2013 11:25:53 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote: : : : : At 10/8/2013 11:18:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote: : : : : : At 10/8/2013 10:16:57 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote: : : : : : : At 10/7/2013 11:52:36 PM, Fruitytree wrote: : : : : : : All the other explanationshave important logical flaws. : : : : : : : : : : Like what? : : : : : : : : Infinitely recurring universe, or basically any un-sentient or finite cause. : : : : : : First of all, those aren't even close to the only options. Secondly, what are the logical flaws you speak of? : : : : : : : Still the only options that can compete with God as explanation to the universe. : : Not really, this assumes there needs to be a causal explanation of the universe in the first place.

So far you're asking for an explanation in the religious forum, sounds like you assume a cause too ?!

The Logical flaw is that a recurring universe still needs a first time ie t=0 , when it first existed, because a universe depends on both space and time! : : The universe doesn't depend on space and time, space and time depend on the universe as they are just variables of it, so the only logical flaws I see are with regards to your position.

So time was caused by the bigbang according to you ?! it make no sense, the bigbang is something that pre-assume both time and space, what is t=0 and why ?

If God didn't exist there wouldn't be Time (ie nothing new wouldhave "ever" happened). : : : : : : : : : : Says who? : : : : : : : : Reason. : : : : : : : : Time itself is a witness. : : : : : : How does reason support the claim that if God didn't exist, time wouldn't exist? This just seems like a bare-assertion. : : : : The what could possibly be behind the existence of time? : : There are plenty of options, but why even assume there has to be something behind the existence of time? That just leads to an infinite regress, because if something has to be behind the existence of time, then I can just ask what is behind that, and so on. : : :an un-sentient being cannot be behind it for it doesn'thave any intention. : : What makes you think intention is required?

As long as there is no intention, there is no action, no first event to cause whatever new events.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/8/2013 1:19:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/8/2013 11:52:48 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 10/8/2013 11:37:30 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote: : : At 10/8/2013 11:32:00 AM, Fruitytree wrote: : : : At 10/8/2013 11:25:53 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote: : : : : At 10/8/2013 11:18:52 AM, Fruitytree wrote: : : : : : At 10/8/2013 10:16:57 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote: : : : : : : At 10/7/2013 11:52:36 PM, Fruitytree wrote: : : : : : : All the other explanationshave important logical flaws. : : : : : : : : : : Like what? : : : : : : : : Infinitely recurring universe, or basically any un-sentient or finite cause. : : : : : : First of all, those aren't even close to the only options. Secondly, what are the logical flaws you speak of? : : : : : : : Still the only options that can compete with God as explanation to the universe. : : Not really, this assumes there needs to be a causal explanation of the universe in the first place.

So far you're asking for an explanation in the religious forum, sounds like you assume a cause too ?!

No, because the explanation for the universe could be that it is factually necessary, that doesn't mean it has a cause.


The Logical flaw is that a recurring universe still needs a first time ie t=0 , when it first existed, because a universe depends on both space and time! : : The universe doesn't depend on space and time, space and time depend on the universe as they are just variables of it, so the only logical flaws I see are with regards to your position.

So time was caused by the bigbang according to you ?!

It's possible.

it make no sense, the bigbang is something that pre-assume both time and space, what is t=0 and why ?

Perhaps there had to be a universe at t=0... Perhaps it could be no other way, and was uncaused.


If God didn't exist there wouldn't be Time (ie nothing new wouldhave "ever" happened). : : : : : : : : : : Says who? : : : : : : : : Reason. : : : : : : : : Time itself is a witness. : : : : : : How does reason support the claim that if God didn't exist, time wouldn't exist? This just seems like a bare-assertion. : : : : The what could possibly be behind the existence of time? : : There are plenty of options, but why even assume there has to be something behind the existence of time? That just leads to an infinite regress, because if something has to be behind the existence of time, then I can just ask what is behind that, and so on. : : :an un-sentient being cannot be behind it for it doesn'thave any intention. : : What makes you think intention is required?

As long as there is no intention, there is no action, no first event to cause whatever new events.

That's retarded. Intention is not needed for action lol
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/9/2013 4:02:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/7/2013 7:10:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
... If you think so, tell me why.

God didn't need to explain the universe to us saints. All He needed to do was reveal that we were created in His invisible thoughts spoken into wavelengths of energy that don't exist as time, space or matter. In other words, the universe is only an illusion that's formed by processed energy through the processors of each of God's created "beings".

With this knowledge, we know that the universe we look at is only an illusion, like a magic trick on us to make us believe that it's real.