Total Posts:12|Showing Posts:1-12
Jump to topic:

Is This Heaven, or Is It Hell?

s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/8/2013 3:44:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The Christian concept of Heaven posits a place most sublime, nothing better, the most good of all possible worlds; and, it posits Hell as the worst, basest, most agonizing, excruciating pain imaginable.

However, this perplexes me. If a state of mind is most blissful, meaning there is no variance in happiness, day after day, year after year, millennium after millennium nothing but pure, unadulterated joy, at its sublimest, then, what is special from one moment to the next? It's as though an artist had a mere single color with which to paint, nothing but pure and unblemished white. This sounds tediously boring, to say the least, and indistinguishable, at best, a mere death to one's emotions, an everlasting apathy.... Sounds more like Hell, to me.

However, let us consider the concept of Hell , a place of sheer and utter torment, devoid of any semblance of joy, complete misery and anguish, no one day is anymore horrific than another, again, no variance in emotion; after an indiscernible amount of time, pain is no longer unique, it is no longer foreign, it has lost any sense of excitability, it is completely predictable; and, the evildoer has grown accustomed to its presence and, with time, absent of any sensibilities, apathy sets in; and, all sense of feeling is lost.

Sounds as though Heaven and Hell are not so different, after all.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/8/2013 4:41:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/8/2013 3:44:56 PM, s-anthony wrote: : The Christian concept of Heaven posits a place most sublime, nothing better, the most good of all possible worlds; and, it posits Hell as the worst, basest, most agonizing, excruciating pain imaginable. : : However, this perplexes me. If a state of mind is most blissful, meaning there is no variance in happiness, day after day, year after year, millennium after millennium nothing but pure, unadulterated joy, at its sublimest, then, what is special from one moment to the next? It's as though an artist had a mere single color with which to paint, nothing but pure and unblemished white. This sounds tediously boring, to say the least, and indistinguishable, at best, a mere death to one's emotions, an everlasting apathy.... Sounds more like Hell, to me. : : However, let us consider the concept of Hell , a place of sheer and utter torment, devoid of any semblance of joy, complete misery and anguish, no one day is anymore horrific than another, again, no variance in emotion; after an indiscernible amount of time, pain is no longer unique, it is no longer foreign, it has lost any sense of excitability, it is completely predictable; and, the evildoer has grown accustomed to its presence and, with time, absent of any sensibilities, apathy sets in; and, all sense of feeling is lost. : : Sounds as though Heaven and Hell are not so different, after all.

I got a solution to your problem:

Paradise , a place of bliss were every tomorrow is even better than today.

Hell; a place of torment , were every tomorrow is worst than today.

Now you should like both!
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/8/2013 5:13:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/8/2013 4:41:35 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 10/8/2013 3:44:56 PM, s-anthony wrote: : The Christian concept of Heaven posits a place most sublime, nothing better, the most good of all possible worlds; and, it posits Hell as the worst, basest, most agonizing, excruciating pain imaginable. : : However, this perplexes me. If a state of mind is most blissful, meaning there is no variance in happiness, day after day, year after year, millennium after millennium nothing but pure, unadulterated joy, at its sublimest, then, what is special from one moment to the next? It's as though an artist had a mere single color with which to paint, nothing but pure and unblemished white. This sounds tediously boring, to say the least, and indistinguishable, at best, a mere death to one's emotions, an everlasting apathy.... Sounds more like Hell, to me. : : However, let us consider the concept of Hell , a place of sheer and utter torment, devoid of any semblance of joy, complete misery and anguish, no one day is anymore horrific than another, again, no variance in emotion; after an indiscernible amount of time, pain is no longer unique, it is no longer foreign, it has lost any sense of excitability, it is completely predictable; and, the evildoer has grown accustomed to its presence and, with time, absent of any sensibilities, apathy sets in; and, all sense of feeling is lost. : : Sounds as though Heaven and Hell are not so different, after all.

I got a solution to your problem:

Paradise , a place of bliss were every tomorrow is even better than today.

Hell; a place of torment , were every tomorrow is worst than today.

Now you should like both!

So, you're telling me, Heaven isn't presently perfect and Hell isn't perfectly evil?
MassiveDump
Posts: 3,423
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2013 9:07:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
That reminds me of an episode of the Twilight Zone. Everything seemed so perfect, but there was no surprise. It turned out that the place the hero went actually was Hell.

Imagine having a series of really good days. You didn't know what was going to happen tomorrow, but you knew it would be awesome. Things would go well, but you wouldn't know how until it happened.

Heaven.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2013 10:20:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/9/2013 9:07:24 AM, MassiveDump wrote:
That reminds me of an episode of the Twilight Zone. Everything seemed so perfect, but there was no surprise. It turned out that the place the hero went actually was Hell.

Imagine having a series of really good days. You didn't know what was going to happen tomorrow, but you knew it would be awesome. Things would go well, but you wouldn't know how until it happened.

Heaven.

The only issue I have with that scenario is, in order, for the next day to be an exciting one, there must be a variance in emotion; in other words, it must be better or worse than today. If one day is better than the other, it means the other is not perfectly good. If Heaven is not perfect, how is it any different than this present life?
MassiveDump
Posts: 3,423
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2013 10:56:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/9/2013 10:20:37 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 10/9/2013 9:07:24 AM, MassiveDump wrote:
That reminds me of an episode of the Twilight Zone. Everything seemed so perfect, but there was no surprise. It turned out that the place the hero went actually was Hell.

Imagine having a series of really good days. You didn't know what was going to happen tomorrow, but you knew it would be awesome. Things would go well, but you wouldn't know how until it happened.

Heaven.

The only issue I have with that scenario is, in order, for the next day to be an exciting one, there must be a variance in emotion; in other words, it must be better or worse than today. If one day is better than the other, it means the other is not perfectly good. If Heaven is not perfect, how is it any different than this present life?

Disclaimer: I have no basis for what I'm about to say.

Nothing in the Bible says that heaven is perfect, it only says that there's no suffering. If there's no suffering, one can have a really great day one day, and still an even better day the next.

Picture a number line of things that can happen. The most mediocre thing that could possibly happen is zero. Nothing in heaven would be at or below zero, and every day would consist of things that were a higher and higher number. That would be heaven.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2013 12:54:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/9/2013 10:56:00 AM, MassiveDump wrote:
At 10/9/2013 10:20:37 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 10/9/2013 9:07:24 AM, MassiveDump wrote:
That reminds me of an episode of the Twilight Zone. Everything seemed so perfect, but there was no surprise. It turned out that the place the hero went actually was Hell.

Imagine having a series of really good days. You didn't know what was going to happen tomorrow, but you knew it would be awesome. Things would go well, but you wouldn't know how until it happened.

Heaven.

The only issue I have with that scenario is, in order, for the next day to be an exciting one, there must be a variance in emotion; in other words, it must be better or worse than today. If one day is better than the other, it means the other is not perfectly good. If Heaven is not perfect, how is it any different than this present life?

Disclaimer: I have no basis for what I'm about to say.

Nothing in the Bible says that heaven is perfect, it only says that there's no suffering. If there's no suffering, one can have a really great day one day, and still an even better day the next.

Picture a number line of things that can happen. The most mediocre thing that could possibly happen is zero. Nothing in heaven would be at or below zero, and every day would consist of things that were a higher and higher number. That would be heaven.

Better implies something, else, is worse, meaning something is not completely, or perfectly, good. Heaven is either completely good or it's not. If it's not completely good, then, there is a degree of dissatisfaction, meaning something about it brings displeasure, unhappiness, pain, and suffering.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/9/2013 3:55:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/8/2013 3:44:56 PM, s-anthony wrote:
The Christian concept of Heaven posits a place most sublime, nothing better, the most good of all possible worlds; and, it posits Hell as the worst, basest, most agonizing, excruciating pain imaginable.

However, this perplexes me. If a state of mind is most blissful, meaning there is no variance in happiness, day after day, year after year, millennium after millennium nothing but pure, unadulterated joy, at its sublimest, then, what is special from one moment to the next? It's as though an artist had a mere single color with which to paint, nothing but pure and unblemished white. This sounds tediously boring, to say the least, and indistinguishable, at best, a mere death to one's emotions, an everlasting apathy.... Sounds more like Hell, to me.

However, let us consider the concept of Hell , a place of sheer and utter torment, devoid of any semblance of joy, complete misery and anguish, no one day is anymore horrific than another, again, no variance in emotion; after an indiscernible amount of time, pain is no longer unique, it is no longer foreign, it has lost any sense of excitability, it is completely predictable; and, the evildoer has grown accustomed to its presence and, with time, absent of any sensibilities, apathy sets in; and, all sense of feeling is lost.

Sounds as though Heaven and Hell are not so different, after all.

Christians have no idea what the future is for God's invisible creation. We saints have the invisible knowledge of God to understand how we'll live in Paradise that will NEVER be boring. If you want to learn about the future age, just ask me about it.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/10/2013 12:52:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/8/2013 5:13:30 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 10/8/2013 4:41:35 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 10/8/2013 3:44:56 PM, s-anthony wrote: : The Christian concept of Heaven posits a place most sublime, nothing better, the most good of all possible worlds; and, it posits Hell as the worst, basest, most agonizing, excruciating pain imaginable. : : However, this perplexes me. If a state of mind is most blissful, meaning there is no variance in happiness, day after day, year after year, millennium after millennium nothing but pure, unadulterated joy, at its sublimest, then, what is special from one moment to the next? It's as though an artist had a mere single color with which to paint, nothing but pure and unblemished white. This sounds tediously boring, to say the least, and indistinguishable, at best, a mere death to one's emotions, an everlasting apathy.... Sounds more like Hell, to me. : : However, let us consider the concept of Hell , a place of sheer and utter torment, devoid of any semblance of joy, complete misery and anguish, no one day is anymore horrific than another, again, no variance in emotion; after an indiscernible amount of time, pain is no longer unique, it is no longer foreign, it has lost any sense of excitability, it is completely predictable; and, the evildoer has grown accustomed to its presence and, with time, absent of any sensibilities, apathy sets in; and, all sense of feeling is lost. : : Sounds as though Heaven and Hell are not so different, after all.

I got a solution to your problem:

Paradise , a place of bliss were every tomorrow is even better than today.

Hell; a place of torment , were every tomorrow is worst than today.

Now you should like both!

So, you're telling me, Heaven isn't presently perfect and Hell isn't perfectly evil?

It depends what perfect is to you ?

But you'd feel perfectly Happy in heaven, and perfectly miserable in Hell everyday.
MassiveDump
Posts: 3,423
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/10/2013 10:57:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/9/2013 12:54:01 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 10/9/2013 10:56:00 AM, MassiveDump wrote:
At 10/9/2013 10:20:37 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 10/9/2013 9:07:24 AM, MassiveDump wrote:
That reminds me of an episode of the Twilight Zone. Everything seemed so perfect, but there was no surprise. It turned out that the place the hero went actually was Hell.

Imagine having a series of really good days. You didn't know what was going to happen tomorrow, but you knew it would be awesome. Things would go well, but you wouldn't know how until it happened.

Heaven.

The only issue I have with that scenario is, in order, for the next day to be an exciting one, there must be a variance in emotion; in other words, it must be better or worse than today. If one day is better than the other, it means the other is not perfectly good. If Heaven is not perfect, how is it any different than this present life?

Disclaimer: I have no basis for what I'm about to say.

Nothing in the Bible says that heaven is perfect, it only says that there's no suffering. If there's no suffering, one can have a really great day one day, and still an even better day the next.

Picture a number line of things that can happen. The most mediocre thing that could possibly happen is zero. Nothing in heaven would be at or below zero, and every day would consist of things that were a higher and higher number. That would be heaven.

Better implies something, else, is worse, meaning something is not completely, or perfectly, good. Heaven is either completely good or it's not. If it's not completely good, then, there is a degree of dissatisfaction, meaning something about it brings displeasure, unhappiness, pain, and suffering.

I'm going to let you take this time to actually read what I said.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
10/10/2013 2:24:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/10/2013 12:52:42 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 10/8/2013 5:13:30 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 10/8/2013 4:41:35 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 10/8/2013 3:44:56 PM, s-anthony wrote: : The Christian concept of Heaven posits a place most sublime, nothing better, the most good of all possible worlds; and, it posits Hell as the worst, basest, most agonizing, excruciating pain imaginable. : : However, this perplexes me. If a state of mind is most blissful, meaning there is no variance in happiness, day after day, year after year, millennium after millennium nothing but pure, unadulterated joy, at its sublimest, then, what is special from one moment to the next? It's as though an artist had a mere single color with which to paint, nothing but pure and unblemished white. This sounds tediously boring, to say the least, and indistinguishable, at best, a mere death to one's emotions, an everlasting apathy.... Sounds more like Hell, to me. : : However, let us consider the concept of Hell , a place of sheer and utter torment, devoid of any semblance of joy, complete misery and anguish, no one day is anymore horrific than another, again, no variance in emotion; after an indiscernible amount of time, pain is no longer unique, it is no longer foreign, it has lost any sense of excitability, it is completely predictable; and, the evildoer has grown accustomed to its presence and, with time, absent of any sensibilities, apathy sets in; and, all sense of feeling is lost. : : Sounds as though Heaven and Hell are not so different, after all.

I got a solution to your problem:

Paradise , a place of bliss were every tomorrow is even better than today.

Hell; a place of torment , were every tomorrow is worst than today.

Now you should like both!

So, you're telling me, Heaven isn't presently perfect and Hell isn't perfectly evil?

It depends what perfect is to you ?

Complete.


But you'd feel perfectly Happy in heaven, and perfectly miserable in Hell everyday.

Which is worse?