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Skeptics: Any Question about Islam?

LoopsEye
Posts: 120
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10/17/2013 10:20:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Aslaamu Alikum! & Shalom!
May Peace and Mercy be Upon All of You!

I understand the place is not Vacant of Mockers and Trolls but still I would involve myself to start this thread and let you dare ask questions about Islam?

I would stick to some basic rules and will advise all Muslims/Non-Muslims please be kind enough to follow them if you wish to have a pleasant talk

-- Please be peaceful.
--Do not use foul language.
--Do not Mock and Troll.
--Whatever you say be ready to stand for it and accept the debate.
--Ignore the Trolls I would do so.
--Have Patience and Learn to Coexist.

Pardon my english

I would be glad to answer your all the questions Regarding

--Islam --Glorious Quran --Muhammad(pbuh) --Jesus Christ(pbuh) --Allah

and Beliefs of Islam and relevant topics.

Hope to Hear soon..

--Peace
Skeptics: Any Question about Islam? --> http://www.debate.org...

No Foul Language, No Trolls in My Topics Give & Take Respect.

Muhammad(pbuh) married a Child? --> http://www.debate.org...
TheAntidoter
Posts: 4,323
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10/17/2013 10:24:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
You remind me of Sower4GS

and I'm not sure why.

I suppose I am merely assuming, but I see a resemblance.
Affinity: Fire
Class: Human
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Nac.

WOAH, COLORED FONT!
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
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10/17/2013 10:52:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/17/2013 10:20:48 AM, LoopsEye wrote:
Aslaamu Alikum! & Shalom!
May Peace and Mercy be Upon All of You!

I understand the place is not Vacant of Mockers and Trolls but still I would involve myself to start this thread and let you dare ask questions about Islam?

I would stick to some basic rules and will advise all Muslims/Non-Muslims please be kind enough to follow them if you wish to have a pleasant talk


-- Please be peaceful.
--Do not use foul language.
--Do not Mock and Troll.
--Whatever you say be ready to stand for it and accept the debate.
--Ignore the Trolls I would do so.
--Have Patience and Learn to Coexist.

Pardon my english

I would be glad to answer your all the questions Regarding

--Islam --Glorious Quran --Muhammad(pbuh) --Jesus Christ(pbuh) --Allah

and Beliefs of Islam and relevant topics.

Hope to Hear soon..

--Peace
Why was muhammad allowed as many wives as he wanted and everybody else was restricted to four?
Why can't muslims see this as simply a self serving revelation created by muhammad?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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10/17/2013 12:09:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why did Muhammad marry a six year old and have sex with her when she was nine? Are other Muslims allowed to do this as well, and what is the Muslim stance on child rape and having sex with children?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/17/2013 4:55:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/17/2013 10:20:48 AM, LoopsEye wrote:
Aslaamu Alikum! & Shalom!
May Peace and Mercy be Upon All of You!

I understand the place is not Vacant of Mockers and Trolls but still I would involve myself to start this thread and let you dare ask questions about Islam?

I would stick to some basic rules and will advise all Muslims/Non-Muslims please be kind enough to follow them if you wish to have a pleasant talk


-- Please be peaceful.
--Do not use foul language.
--Do not Mock and Troll.
--Whatever you say be ready to stand for it and accept the debate.
--Ignore the Trolls I would do so.
--Have Patience and Learn to Coexist.

Pardon my english

I would be glad to answer your all the questions Regarding

--Islam --Glorious Quran --Muhammad(pbuh) --Jesus Christ(pbuh) --Allah

and Beliefs of Islam and relevant topics.

Hope to Hear soon..

--Peace

Why do Muslims believe in the same after death ideas as the original Roman Catholics did?

Did you know that Catholic desenters were the ones who helped write the Quran with all their religious ideas added to it but in a different way than the Vatican had their new testament written?

Did you know most of the prophecies were stolen from the Old Testament but worded in a different way to pretend that Mohammed got new revelations from our Creator?

Did you know that most western religions, including Islam, came out of Christianity, which has nothing to do with the invisible knowledge of God that only us saints possess?

Did you know that Christianity is the "feet of iron and clay" of the beast in the prophecies of Daniel 2: 36-45?

Since Islam is a copy of Christianity, wouldn't they be a part of the "feet of iron and clay" also?
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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10/17/2013 5:06:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why did Muhammad marry a six year old and have sex with her when she was nine? Are other Muslims allowed to do this as well, and what is the Muslim stance on child rape and having sex with children?

This idea that Muhammad married and fornicated with a child is the geographical equivalent of believing the earth is flat. The idea was put forth before the 19th century, and has been refuted since.

The only strong "evidence" of this child-relationship comes from Hadith, which, as someone who has studied the subject, I can tell you is false. In fact, most hadith are false (though Muslims don't like to admit/address it).

Based on the work done by both non-Muslim and Muslim scholars, Aisha (the wife in question) is likely to have been the age of 15-24 when she officially married Muhammad, based on her birthdate, and known dated events around her time of life.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/17/2013 5:09:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/17/2013 5:06:08 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Why did Muhammad marry a six year old and have sex with her when she was nine? Are other Muslims allowed to do this as well, and what is the Muslim stance on child rape and having sex with children?

This idea that Muhammad married and fornicated with a child is the geographical equivalent of believing the earth is flat. The idea was put forth before the 19th century, and has been refuted since.

The only strong "evidence" of this child-relationship comes from Hadith, which, as someone who has studied the subject, I can tell you is false. In fact, most hadith are false (though Muslims don't like to admit/address it).

Based on the work done by both non-Muslim and Muslim scholars, Aisha (the wife in question) is likely to have been the age of 15-24 when she officially married Muhammad, based on her birthdate, and known dated events around her time of life.

Why do you Christians and Muslims always talk about the flesh instead of heavenly things that us saints speak about?
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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10/17/2013 5:10:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why was muhammad allowed as many wives as he wanted and everybody else was restricted to four?
Why can't muslims see this as simply a self serving revelation created by muhammad?

To your first point, I believe Muhammad never had more then 4 wives at once. There are some accounts that he had many wives at once, but these are likely falsified, considering they only came to prominence well after his death (forgery alert).

Interesting second point. The likely can't see this for the same reason many of us don't see the things we are horribly wrong about. We are biased towards believing ourselves and our culture correct. To be fair, there isn't any concrete evidence that shows Muhammad made up the whole thing..
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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10/17/2013 5:12:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Why do you Christians and Muslims always talk about the flesh instead of heavenly things that us saints speak about?

Uh...what?

I'm neither Christian nor Muslim, but an agnostic.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/17/2013 5:15:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/17/2013 5:12:25 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Why do you Christians and Muslims always talk about the flesh instead of heavenly things that us saints speak about?

Uh...what?

I'm neither Christian nor Muslim, but an agnostic.

Stay away from both of these religions because none of them possess the Truth. They think it has something to do with the flesh of man but the Truth is and has always and will be invisible to man forever.
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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10/17/2013 5:20:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Stay away from both of these religions because none of them possess the Truth. They think it has something to do with the flesh of man but the Truth is and has always and will be invisible to man forever.

...Okay.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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10/17/2013 5:48:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/17/2013 5:06:08 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Why did Muhammad marry a six year old and have sex with her when she was nine? Are other Muslims allowed to do this as well, and what is the Muslim stance on child rape and having sex with children?

This idea that Muhammad married and fornicated with a child is the geographical equivalent of believing the earth is flat. The idea was put forth before the 19th century, and has been refuted since.

The only strong "evidence" of this child-relationship comes from Hadith, which, as someone who has studied the subject, I can tell you is false. In fact, most hadith are false (though Muslims don't like to admit/address it).

Interesting... I'm aware Muslims treat Hadith similar to or at the same level as scripture, so this would be a dilemma. Obviously having a Mohammed do it with a 9-year old isn't ideal, but it is scripture so there is the problem.

Based on the work done by both non-Muslim and Muslim scholars, Aisha (the wife in question) is likely to have been the age of 15-24 when she officially married Muhammad, based on her birthdate, and known dated events around her time of life.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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10/17/2013 5:52:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/17/2013 5:06:08 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Why did Muhammad marry a six year old and have sex with her when she was nine? Are other Muslims allowed to do this as well, and what is the Muslim stance on child rape and having sex with children?

This idea that Muhammad married and fornicated with a child is the geographical equivalent of believing the earth is flat. The idea was put forth before the 19th century, and has been refuted since.

The only strong "evidence" of this child-relationship comes from Hadith, which, as someone who has studied the subject, I can tell you is false. In fact, most hadith are false (though Muslims don't like to admit/address it).

Based on the work done by both non-Muslim and Muslim scholars, Aisha (the wife in question) is likely to have been the age of 15-24 when she officially married Muhammad, based on her birthdate, and known dated events around her time of life.

You've made that claim before, and I rebutted it. You have yet to provide any evidence of your claim that Aisha was likely 15-24.

Do so, or drop this.
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Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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10/17/2013 6:04:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/17/2013 12:09:54 PM, TN05 wrote: : Why did Muhammad marry a six year old and have sex with her when she was nine? Are other Muslims allowed to do this as well, and what is the Muslim stance on child rape and having sex with children?

His own daughter Asmaa married her cousin at 10, women used to have their first marriage at a young age then, a bit as western girls have sex early nowadays but with no commitment or rights!
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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10/17/2013 6:15:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/17/2013 10:52:17 AM, bulproof wrote: : : Why was muhammad allowed as many wives as he wanted and everybody else was restricted to four?

Well in the beginning there was no limitation, then as the ruling came men who were married to more then 4 had to divorce. but the wives Mohammed had have the status of mothers of the believers, they aren't like any women, they have the responsibility of the revelation, so Mohamed was restricted to the ones he had already and was not allowed to marry any more. it's not a pleasure thing..

Why can't muslims see this as simply a self serving revelation created by muhammad?

Because you think it's fun to have 2 wives, I remind you those are wives, not prostitutes, with all the rights a wife deserves.. He is the example, and his wives were good teachers after him, they also were witnesses..
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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10/17/2013 7:38:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/17/2013 6:25:59 PM, anomalous wrote: : I have a question for you. : Do you believethe Quran is perfect?

I know the question isn't for me, but I noticed people use the adjective perfect everywhere so just to make sure ,do you mean infallible ?
anomalous
Posts: 118
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10/17/2013 8:21:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/17/2013 7:38:20 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 10/17/2013 6:25:59 PM, anomalous wrote: : I have a question for you. : Do you believethe Quran is perfect?

I know the question isn't for me, but I noticed people use the adjective perfect everywhere so just to make sure ,do you mean infallible ?

In this case I meant perfect as a synonym for infallible.
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
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10/17/2013 9:00:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/17/2013 6:15:57 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 10/17/2013 10:52:17 AM, bulproof wrote: : : Why was muhammad allowed as many wives as he wanted and everybody else was restricted to four?

Well in the beginning there was no limitation, then as the ruling came men who were married to more then 4 had to divorce. but the wives Mohammed had have the status of mothers of the believers, they aren't like any women, they have the responsibility of the revelation, so Mohamed was restricted to the ones he had already and was not allowed to marry any more. it's not a pleasure thing..

Why can't muslims see this as simply a self serving revelation created by muhammad?

Because you think it's fun to have 2 wives, I remind you those are wives, not prostitutes, with all the rights a wife deserves.. He is the example, and his wives were good teachers after him, they also were witnesses..

Indoctrination in this one, strong it is.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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10/17/2013 9:26:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
You've made that claim before, and I rebutted it. You have yet to provide any evidence of your claim that Aisha was likely 15-24.

Do so, or drop this.

Apologies, I don't know when you "rebutted" it, and I'm not trying to avoid or upset you by plowing on. Here are a couple links to get you started.

http://www.muslim.org...

http://www.discoveringislam.org...

If you can struggle through the Islamic cheesiness, they get to a few important issues.

1.) Most, if not all, of the sources that date Aisha as a child (6-9 years old) are Hadith. Hadith are shaky to begin with, and this is compounded by the fact that "hadith" that weren't specifically about Muhammad's teachings, weren't even put through the usual mediocre test for "authenticity".

2.) You may ask why these sites also utilized the supposedly untrustworthy Hadith to prove Aisha was 12-19 years old. The key is that most of the hadith utilized here aren't accounts directly from or of Aisha, but of Muhammad and events surrounding him, ensuring that the Hadith have a much stronger chance of being legitimate.

3.) The sources also make use of non-Hadith sources, that date Aisha and her family based on historically agreed upon events and dates. These tend to be the most recent studies, that also show that its physically impossible for Aisha to have been aged 6-9 during her marriage.

If you have any questions, shoot.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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10/17/2013 9:30:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Interesting... I'm aware Muslims treat Hadith similar to or at the same level as scripture, so this would be a dilemma. Obviously having a Mohammed do it with a 9-year old isn't ideal, but it is scripture so there is the problem.

Most Muslims consider Hadith as second only to the Quran, and basically scripture.

The issue isn't whether or not Hadith is scripture or not (which based on the Qurans commandments, it isn't), but that Hadith aren't historically reliable sources.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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10/17/2013 9:43:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/17/2013 9:30:34 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Interesting... I'm aware Muslims treat Hadith similar to or at the same level as scripture, so this would be a dilemma. Obviously having a Mohammed do it with a 9-year old isn't ideal, but it is scripture so there is the problem.

Most Muslims consider Hadith as second only to the Quran, and basically scripture.

Thanks for the clarification.

The issue isn't whether or not Hadith is scripture or not (which based on the Qurans commandments, it isn't), but that Hadith aren't historically reliable sources.
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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10/17/2013 10:43:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/17/2013 9:26:17 PM, HPWKA wrote:
You've made that claim before, and I rebutted it. You have yet to provide any evidence of your claim that Aisha was likely 15-24.

Do so, or drop this.

Apologies, I don't know when you "rebutted" it, and I'm not trying to avoid or upset you by plowing on. Here are a couple links to get you started.

http://www.muslim.org...

http://www.discoveringislam.org...

If you can struggle through the Islamic cheesiness, they get to a few important issues.

1.) Most, if not all, of the sources that date Aisha as a child (6-9 years old) are Hadith. Hadith are shaky to begin with, and this is compounded by the fact that "hadith" that weren't specifically about Muhammad's teachings, weren't even put through the usual mediocre test for "authenticity".

2.) You may ask why these sites also utilized the supposedly untrustworthy Hadith to prove Aisha was 12-19 years old. The key is that most of the hadith utilized here aren't accounts directly from or of Aisha, but of Muhammad and events surrounding him, ensuring that the Hadith have a much stronger chance of being legitimate.

3.) The sources also make use of non-Hadith sources, that date Aisha and her family based on historically agreed upon events and dates. These tend to be the most recent studies, that also show that its physically impossible for Aisha to have been aged 6-9 during her marriage.

If you have any questions, shoot.

All of these objections are dealt with here:

http://wikiislam.net...

And none of them are compelling. When you say things like anything show that it's "physically impossible for Aisha...", you're assuming that all the things you like are true, and changing the parts you DON'T to fit the parts you DO. It was pretty well accepted that she was 9 until into the modern era, where it became inconvenient.
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bulproof
Posts: 25,255
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10/17/2013 11:02:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/17/2013 9:26:17 PM, HPWKA wrote:
You've made that claim before, and I rebutted it. You have yet to provide any evidence of your claim that Aisha was likely 15-24.

Do so, or drop this.

Apologies, I don't know when you "rebutted" it, and I'm not trying to avoid or upset you by plowing on. Here are a couple links to get you started.

http://www.muslim.org...

http://www.discoveringislam.org...

If you can struggle through the Islamic cheesiness, they get to a few important issues.

1.) Most, if not all, of the sources that date Aisha as a child (6-9 years old) are Hadith. Hadith are shaky to begin with, and this is compounded by the fact that "hadith" that weren't specifically about Muhammad's teachings, weren't even put through the usual mediocre test for "authenticity".

2.) You may ask why these sites also utilized the supposedly untrustworthy Hadith to prove Aisha was 12-19 years old. The key is that most of the hadith utilized here aren't accounts directly from or of Aisha, but of Muhammad and events surrounding him, ensuring that the Hadith have a much stronger chance of being legitimate.

3.) The sources also make use of non-Hadith sources, that date Aisha and her family based on historically agreed upon events and dates. These tend to be the most recent studies, that also show that its physically impossible for Aisha to have been aged 6-9 during her marriage.

If you have any questions, shoot.

Then why does Fruity Tree defend the consummation at 9yrs as Aisha being a mature woman?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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10/17/2013 11:46:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
All of these objections are dealt with here:

http://wikiislam.net...

And none of them are compelling. When you say things like anything show that it's "physically impossible for Aisha...", you're assuming that all the things you like are true, and changing the parts you DON'T to fit the parts you DO. It was pretty well accepted that she was 9 until into the modern era, where it became inconvenient.

WikiIslam is quite possibly the least credible source for knowledge on Islam. In academic circles (of which I used to be a part of), its persona non grata. If you'll permit an analogy, its like watching Fox News and then formulating an opinion on liberals based on what you saw.

Serious debaters SHOULD know better then to site a source that calls people they disagree with "stupid", disregards contrary evidence, or in some cases simply makes things up (like its position that Hadith are Islamic law).

HOWEVER, I am a firm believer in not letting a sordid track record disqualify an argument, so I'll look over the muck on the link you provided, and get back to you by tomorrow.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/18/2013 12:24:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I tried to Post after joining at the official Moslem Forum(s) but when they saw they hadn't a hope they banned me!

I only used their own Qu'ran as my fatal evidence against them!

My first question was " Should Mohammed return, which Sect would he join? "

That alone was too much for them & my banning made immediate!
LoopsEye
Posts: 120
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10/18/2013 12:38:12 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
_____________________________

Question# Did Muhammad (pbuh) Married a 9 Years old Girl?

Answer# www.debate.org/debates/pedophile-is-a-Blasphemy-on-Honored-Prophet-Muhammad-P.B.U.H/1/ ( Click Here: http://www.debate.org...)

Every of the Claim about My Beloved Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and Our Mother Ayesha has been categorically refuted! and My Contender have nothing to say... Please head there to seek the answer. He did not a 9 Years old girl..

Though Scholars says and History also say that People have been hitting puberty (adulthood) at the age of 8 even at the Equator Region (Encyclopedia Britannia )

But still we have many more hadith which are from more authentic Source that tell she was atleast 18 years old at the time of Marriage!

Case Close!

(If you believe WikiIslam or other of that kind They are Marked as "Fake Islamic Sites" hence hold not credibility for whatever they say I have been there but I now dont even give them a click! IF YOU THINK THEY ARE TRUE)

I have a Button "CHALLENGE A DEBATE" in my profile Click it and challenge me a debate
Skeptics: Any Question about Islam? --> http://www.debate.org...

No Foul Language, No Trolls in My Topics Give & Take Respect.

Muhammad(pbuh) married a Child? --> http://www.debate.org...
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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10/18/2013 12:44:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/18/2013 12:24:06AM, Composer wrote: : I tried to Post after joining at the official Moslem Forum(s) but when they saw they hadn't a hope they banned me! : : I only used their own Qu'ran asmy fatal evidence against them! : :My first question was " Should Mohammed return, which Sect would he join? " : : That alone was too much for them my banning made immediate!

Well maybe that forum was just for Muslims, but there are places where you could ask serious questions, He will not return, the meeting with him is after death, only Jesus PBUH will return .

About sects, he did mention what sect is upon the right path, the one that follows the religion as it was revealed. he did mention that in total 73 sects will divide from Islam.

You can ask anything, but try to be humble..
bladerunner060
Posts: 7,126
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10/18/2013 12:52:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/18/2013 12:38:12 AM, LoopsEye wrote:
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
_____________________________

Question# Did Muhammad (pbuh) Married a 9 Years old Girl?

Answer# www.debate.org/debates/pedophile-is-a-Blasphemy-on-Honored-Prophet-Muhammad-P.B.U.H/1/ ( Click Here: http://www.debate.org...)

Every of the Claim about My Beloved Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and Our Mother Ayesha has been categorically refuted! and My Contender have nothing to say... Please head there to seek the answer. He did not a 9 Years old girl..

Though Scholars says and History also say that People have been hitting puberty (adulthood) at the age of 8 even at the Equator Region (Encyclopedia Britannia )

But still we have many more hadith which are from more authentic Source that tell she was atleast 18 years old at the time of Marriage!

Case Close!

(If you believe WikiIslam or other of that kind They are Marked as "Fake Islamic Sites" hence hold not credibility for whatever they say I have been there but I now dont even give them a click! IF YOU THINK THEY ARE TRUE)

I have a Button "CHALLENGE A DEBATE" in my profile Click it and challenge me a debate

A few points...

1, your debate is not over yet. Presuming you've won already seems, well, presumptuous.

2, I reject MOST of the claims of your Koran and hadiths. But the hadiths in question were not questioned by muslims until pedophilia became inconvenient. Now they're rejected. Well, that's great, I'm glad you can see pedophilia is wrong. But how could this error have lasted until the 20th century, if we're to believe any aspect of the whole hadith-authenticating process? Seems to have done a poor job indeed.
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