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refutation "to the reasons why Jesus is god"

Artur
Posts: 719
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10/19/2013 5:06:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
christian bloggers/scholars say here is the reasons why we call jesus god even though HE HAS NEVER DECLARED GODNESS

however, so many verses have probability to be like to saying, but none doesnot say that Jesus is god exactly, or he declared godness hence this are not proof here I will analyse.

1. Colossians 1:15 II Corinthians 4:4(The Son is the image God)

they say, here is the reason that Jesus is god, this sentence does not mean that Jesus is god, it has probability but not 100%. it says image, not god, image and god are not synonyms. my portret is my image, my sculpture is my image, nowadays I am not at home and abroad and my photo which is image of mine is at home, does that mean that my photo is Artur/person itself?

2. Luke 1:35, Matthew 1:20(the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God.)
being called son of god does also not mean that he is 100%god. for example: in matthew 6:1 Jesus says: "you will have no reward from your Father in heaven" if being son of god means you are god, then everybody in this world is son of god according to relation between matthew 1:20&6:1. Jesus is god because he is son of god and if the god is our father then we are his children, if hJesus is god because he is called son of god we also are god because we are children of God. the believers as Jesus god, do you believe that you are also god?

3. II Corinthians 4:6( To see Jesus' face is to see the glory of God)
looking at my photo, to see my photo is to see my face, do the believers in godness of jesus consider my photo as a person, as Artur? 2. this is the word of PAUL, not Jesus itself, given the description by PAUL or anybody else doesnot mean you are 100%.

4. Philippians 2:6(being in the form of God" makes Him God)
this is the opinion of PAUL, it doesnot make him god. it has probability but not means it is god. if Jesus was in the from of god, he would know everything, but he didnt know, for example: the time of crucifixion.(mark 13:32 But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. and this shows that Father and Jesus was not one, if they were one they would know which is known by either)

5. That is why to "see Jesus" is to "see the Father(John 14:9, John 12:45)
this does also not mean he is god or they are one. sharing the same properties/charachters does not mean that you are absolutely one. I have box which is the same copy of my book, cover of the book and my box is just the same, cover of my book is copied to my book, does it mean that my box is book? to see that box is to see my book.

6. Jesus said He and His Father are one(John10:30)
1. when you analyse it in context Jesus is talking about the protection by his father, as a group, like bodyguard he is talking, for example: I have a novice, an apprentice in my work, his rights are protected by me and I have him right to command others from my voice, when commanding he says: Artur and I are one I also say to workers: do as he says he and me are one. it does not mean that: Artur is his own novice and at the same time Artur is his own virtuoso. or it does not mean Artur is one person in two diffrent persons. he is another man, I am another man, in a degree, he also says: Artur is greater than I. does it mean: Artur is two persons at one, Artur is the novice of Artur and Artur is the apprentice of Artur.

7. Jesus is IN the bosom of the Father - John 1:18. Not "on" the bosom"..not "near" the bosom...IN the bosom...He is in the center of the
Father. They are "one"(John 1:18)
I have also bosom, or I can also say to my books: you are my bosom, does it mean that my books are people? it doesnot, nor does the Christ.

8. Jesus deserves the SAME honour as the Father(John 5:23)
one of my friends has a pet, dog, he says: the one who scorns my dog the one who disrespects my dog disrespects me. does it mean his dog is person or does it mean that his dog is one wwith my friend? I saw them many times, dog was not man, and they were seperate.
this verse doesnot say clearly Jesus is god. hence, this is not a proof that Jesus is god.

9. esus was WORSHIPPED(Matthew 2:11 and e.t.c)
there are/were many people who are worshipped, do you consider all of them as god? tehre are many things which are worshipped do you consider them as god? asking to people who consider this verse as the proof of godness of Jesus.
when I have a son, if I worship him will it make him god?

10. Even angels WORSHIP Jesus(Hebrews 1:6)
some of my friends respect the dog of my friend, does it mean that his dog is human?

later, I will write on, to be continued.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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10/19/2013 8:00:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
even the dog worships the angels who worship the jesus who worships the dog who told muhammad to fvck off.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/20/2013 10:36:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/19/2013 5:06:29 PM, Artur wrote:
christian bloggers/scholars say here is the reasons why we call jesus god even though HE HAS NEVER DECLARED GODNESS

however, so many verses have probability to be like to saying, but none doesnot say that Jesus is god exactly, or he declared godness hence this are not proof here I will analyse.

1. Colossians 1:15 II Corinthians 4:4(The Son is the image God)

they say, here is the reason that Jesus is god, this sentence does not mean that Jesus is god, it has probability but not 100%. it says image, not god, image and god are not synonyms. my portret is my image, my sculpture is my image, nowadays I am not at home and abroad and my photo which is image of mine is at home, does that mean that my photo is Artur/person itself?

2. Luke 1:35, Matthew 1:20(the holy one to be born will be called[a] the Son of God.)
being called son of god does also not mean that he is 100%god. for example: in matthew 6:1 Jesus says: "you will have no reward from your Father in heaven" if being son of god means you are god, then everybody in this world is son of god according to relation between matthew 1:20&6:1. Jesus is god because he is son of god and if the god is our father then we are his children, if hJesus is god because he is called son of god we also are god because we are children of God. the believers as Jesus god, do you believe that you are also god?

3. II Corinthians 4:6( To see Jesus' face is to see the glory of God)
looking at my photo, to see my photo is to see my face, do the believers in godness of jesus consider my photo as a person, as Artur? 2. this is the word of PAUL, not Jesus itself, given the description by PAUL or anybody else doesnot mean you are 100%.

4. Philippians 2:6(being in the form of God" makes Him God)
this is the opinion of PAUL, it doesnot make him god. it has probability but not means it is god. if Jesus was in the from of god, he would know everything, but he didnt know, for example: the time of crucifixion.(mark 13:32 But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. and this shows that Father and Jesus was not one, if they were one they would know which is known by either)

5. That is why to "see Jesus" is to "see the Father(John 14:9, John 12:45)
this does also not mean he is god or they are one. sharing the same properties/charachters does not mean that you are absolutely one. I have box which is the same copy of my book, cover of the book and my box is just the same, cover of my book is copied to my book, does it mean that my box is book? to see that box is to see my book.

6. Jesus said He and His Father are one(John10:30)
1. when you analyse it in context Jesus is talking about the protection by his father, as a group, like bodyguard he is talking, for example: I have a novice, an apprentice in my work, his rights are protected by me and I have him right to command others from my voice, when commanding he says: Artur and I are one I also say to workers: do as he says he and me are one. it does not mean that: Artur is his own novice and at the same time Artur is his own virtuoso. or it does not mean Artur is one person in two diffrent persons. he is another man, I am another man, in a degree, he also says: Artur is greater than I. does it mean: Artur is two persons at one, Artur is the novice of Artur and Artur is the apprentice of Artur.

7. Jesus is IN the bosom of the Father - John 1:18. Not "on" the bosom"..not "near" the bosom...IN the bosom...He is in the center of the
Father. They are "one"(John 1:18)
I have also bosom, or I can also say to my books: you are my bosom, does it mean that my books are people? it doesnot, nor does the Christ.

8. Jesus deserves the SAME honour as the Father(John 5:23)
one of my friends has a pet, dog, he says: the one who scorns my dog the one who disrespects my dog disrespects me. does it mean his dog is person or does it mean that his dog is one wwith my friend? I saw them many times, dog was not man, and they were seperate.
this verse doesnot say clearly Jesus is god. hence, this is not a proof that Jesus is god.

9. esus was WORSHIPPED(Matthew 2:11 and e.t.c)
there are/were many people who are worshipped, do you consider all of them as god? tehre are many things which are worshipped do you consider them as god? asking to people who consider this verse as the proof of godness of Jesus.
when I have a son, if I worship him will it make him god?

10. Even angels WORSHIP Jesus(Hebrews 1:6)
some of my friends respect the dog of my friend, does it mean that his dog is human?

later, I will write on, to be continued.

Why don't you use the whole scripture when you try explain something?

I Colossians 1:
15: He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;

Our Creator is invisible and so is "He", which means God's invisible Word of God, where All His invisible creation was spoken into existence as wavelengths of energy.

Energy is invisible to man and energy is information as science has learned recently. We are information which all came from God's thoughts. This means we are God's thoughts, which is our Heavenly existence. The visible world we see our flesh in and the other things God has us see are only illusions that come from processed information, just like pictures we see on a computer monitor that was processed from the thoughts of God converted into 0's and 1's in a computer binary code and processed by a computer processor ( the brain of a computer ).
Artur
Posts: 719
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10/20/2013 4:25:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
@bornofgod:
{{{Why don't you use the whole scripture when you try explain something?}}}
because I want to make it as short as possible because of character limit.

{{{He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;}}}
no matter visible or invisible, being the image of something doesnot mean that he is the thinh which he represents.

and this state clearly destroys the arguement which says Jesus is god, this verse says that he is image, are the words image and god synonyms.

being the image or vision of something doesnot mean that you are that thing, I have been to turkey, russia and 3 other countries, in turkey, in the southern, they boil the water with adding their traditional plant, when water is getting boiled the stream does not exist but it has the shadow, does it mean that the shadow is stream itself?

that stream is invisible, people can not see it but you can see its shadow but that shaodw is not stream itself, it is the image/vision of the stream.

FOR THE REST:
1)that are your opinions, and I do not talk about the opinions of people when discussing, give me evidence and analyse about it.

2) I have read your opinions you wrote here, you explained the existence of god and e.t.c I do not deny the existence of god, I say: maybe he is existing.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/21/2013 4:57:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"At first the Christian faith was not Trinitarian"It was not so in the apostolic and sub-apostolic ages, as reflected in the New Testament and other early Christian writings" (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, ed. James Hastings, 1922, Vol. 12, p. 461).
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/22/2013 4:49:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/20/2013 4:25:42 PM, Artur wrote:
@bornofgod:
{{{Why don't you use the whole scripture when you try explain something?}}}
because I want to make it as short as possible because of character limit.

{{{He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;}}}
no matter visible or invisible, being the image of something doesnot mean that he is the thinh which he represents.

and this state clearly destroys the arguement which says Jesus is god, this verse says that he is image, are the words image and god synonyms.

being the image or vision of something doesnot mean that you are that thing, I have been to turkey, russia and 3 other countries, in turkey, in the southern, they boil the water with adding their traditional plant, when water is getting boiled the stream does not exist but it has the shadow, does it mean that the shadow is stream itself?

that stream is invisible, people can not see it but you can see its shadow but that shaodw is not stream itself, it is the image/vision of the stream.

FOR THE REST:
1)that are your opinions, and I do not talk about the opinions of people when discussing, give me evidence and analyse about it.

2) I have read your opinions you wrote here, you explained the existence of god and e.t.c I do not deny the existence of god, I say: maybe he is existing.

I CANNOT speak opinions because I am God's created Voice, used to speak for Him. Everything I speak or write is the Truth of who God and our created existence is. You write opinions because you're a sinner who's under the Old Covenant "veil" that all of God's people were born into this world. This is also called the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" that deceives ALL God's people except us chosen saints, but only after He removes the Old Covenant "veil" to reveal His hidden invisible knowledge where all the prophecies came from through the flesh of His prophets. He uses the flesh of us saints to read the prophecies so He can interpret them and get some extra knowledge to clarify the hidden knowledge that we already possess.

The "HE" in that scripture is NOT a flesh named Jesus. It is invisible energy that vibrates in total harmony called God's creation. We are all in the spirit of God as invisible wavelengths of energy and this creation was spoken into existence by the created Word of God, which is the "HE". The Word is God's created Voice that was used to speak vibrations of energy that will last forever except the energy that was only meant to deceive His people during this first age, which we know as Lucifer and the beast. The fire of God will destroy this energy that vibrates in disharmony with His perfect creation.
Artur
Posts: 719
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10/23/2013 11:50:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
@bornofgod.
the topic is: Jesus is god and arguements used as evidence by christians are from the bible. then when discussing, please bring me evidence from the bible.

10 reasons I wrote was from bible and none of them was evidence for the godness of Jesus, I refuted them, you bring your opinions as an evidence, you may think in that way but I am not discussing what you think, how you think, what way you believe in and e.t.c

I am disccusing the humannes of Jesus according to bible, hence when using evidence please biring arguement istead of your opinions.

is saying Jesus is not god sin? it is not sin. Jesus was man.
I am not sinner.

maybe you are choosen according to you but I am still not god and it doesnot mean whatever you say becomes true.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer