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Can God think and reason?

rroberts
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10/23/2013 11:00:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
If I understand the theologians, there existed a hard to conceive of state in which there was nothing yet created, no atoms, no electrons, no light, in fact not even space and time itself, just God. My question is, could this God think and reason? Could he have been self aware? There was nothing material to think about as it had not yet come into existence. There was no time so thoughts of a past, present, and future could not have existed. There was no space yet so there was no concept of here, or there, possible. This lone being, God had nothing to compare itself to, since it existed alone, thus self awareness in the sense of "I am unique" was impossible as there was no non-self around for him to distinguish himself from. Thoughts require things to think about. Since they did not exist he could not have thought about anything really. How could he think of creating a planet like earth, when the very concept of planet did not exist? Such a being would seem to be non-sentient, powerless, and unnecessary. Comments?
rr
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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10/23/2013 11:09:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/23/2013 11:00:14 AM, rroberts wrote:
If I understand the theologians, there existed a hard to conceive of state in which there was nothing yet created, no atoms, no electrons, no light, in fact not even space and time itself, just God. My question is, could this God think and reason? Could he have been self aware? There was nothing material to think about as it had not yet come into existence. There was no time so thoughts of a past, present, and future could not have existed. There was no space yet so there was no concept of here, or there, possible. This lone being, God had nothing to compare itself to, since it existed alone, thus self awareness in the sense of "I am unique" was impossible as there was no non-self around for him to distinguish himself from. Thoughts require things to think about. Since they did not exist he could not have thought about anything really. How could he think of creating a planet like earth, when the very concept of planet did not exist? Such a being would seem to be non-sentient, powerless, and unnecessary. Comments?

There will come apologist arguments against this but they are all based on the false premise that their god MUST exist. Stupid really.

God has existed for all time even before time. Ya say what?
So before time existed god poofed into existence when god created time? GTFOH

Yes the concept of god that many religious denominations proclaim can only be believed by the terminally bewildered.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
1Devilsadvocate
Posts: 1,518
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10/24/2013 12:55:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Sounds like Lawrence Kelemen ;). (Only he (obviously) formulates it better, (he has after all been presenting for 20+ years).

You may be interested in: http://lawrencekelemen.com... , http://www.aish.com... , http://www.simpletoremember.com... , http://www.torahcafe.com... , http://www.torahcafe.com....

You may also be interested in a different form of the argument as presented by David Gottlieb PhD (a former Professor of Philosophy at Johns Hopkins University.) http://ohr.edu... , http://www.dovidgottlieb.com... , http://www.dovidgottlieb.com...

Finally, there is a formulation by Dr. Sam Lebens: http://philosophyofjudaism.blogspot.com...
(Dr. Sam Lebens holds a PhD from the University of London in metaphysics and logic. & is a post-doctoral research fellow at the Centre for Philosophy of Religion, at the University of Notre Dame.)
I cannot write in English, because of the treacherous spelling. When I am reading, I only hear it and am unable to remember what the written word looks like."
"Albert Einstein

http://www.twainquotes.com... , http://thewritecorner.wordpress.com... , http://www.onlinecollegecourses.com...
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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11/19/2013 12:21:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This post reminds me of when I traveled through villages in Ghana, West Africa with some other Americans, one of whom was pregnant . The villagers would ask if she was married to one of the men in the group. She would respond that she was unmarried.

They always became bewildered and could not understand how she could be pregnant and unmarried. Oh, they understood the physics of getting pregnant fine, but a woman voluntarily pregnant, with no intention to marry though she had the option to, was so outside their experience that it took some doing to make them comprehend it.

"This lone being, God had nothing to compare itself to, since it existed alone, thus self awareness in the sense of "I am unique" was impossible as there was no non-self around for him to distinguish himself from."

Gotta love how atheists simply make grand statements like this and just breeze on as if the truth (and logic) of the statement is self-evident.

"How could he think of creating a planet like earth, when the very concept of planet did not exist?"

It is amazing to me that intelligent professors can fail to see the lack of logic in the idea above. The implication is, In order to create Earth, the concept must have pre-existed. But from where? lol.

Such a being would seem to be non-sentient, powerless, and unnecessary.

Not at all. I wish you had shown us the path from your claims to your conclusion. The Bible addresses these points anyway.

But you do know that the Christian God is 3 persons in one God, who commune and love each other?
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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11/19/2013 1:33:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
You sit on this site and think and interact and reason and have the audacity to mock religious people for believing there is something bigger that created it?

Really?

There is either an existence that is ongoing forever or an existence that was not and then started. (Unless you are the brilliant DDO genius that is RT, in which case there may be a finite universe that has always been and came from naught, yet is not from nothing.)

Either one of those positions is miraculous. And neither is superior to the existence of a God prior to the creation of the universe.
Naysayer
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11/19/2013 1:36:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/25/2013 5:01:10 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Time is infinite until you give a good definition and reason why it would be finite ?!!

Time is always finite because it requires a frame of reference to measure.
dadman
Posts: 272
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11/19/2013 1:48:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
How could he think of creating a planet like earth, when the very concept of planet did not exist? Such a being would seem to be non-sentient, powerless, and unnecessary Comments? .

To think you as a human have the ability to examine and evaluate the mind of God .. the Creator of all things ?? .. how laughable are you .. God's foolishness is greater than your wisdom .. show me you have an attention span and the ability to learn something ( http://dadmansabode.com... ) let me know after you absorb this concept .. or will you respond w/ something stupid like: "why should I care what the Bible says" . . . . what will you do .. what WILL you do
And he (God) gave some apostles .. and some prophets .. and some evangelists .. and some teaching pastors .. for the perfecting of the saints .. for the work of the ministry .. for the edifying of the body of Christ .. till we all come in the unity of the faith .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God .. to a perfect (complete) man .. to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . . Ephesians 4:12 .. http://dadmansabode.com... .. come and learn
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/19/2013 3:23:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/23/2013 11:00:14 AM, rroberts wrote:
If I understand the theologians, there existed a hard to conceive of state in which there was nothing yet created, no atoms, no electrons, no light, in fact not even space and time itself, just God. My question is, could this God think and reason? Could he have been self aware? There was nothing material to think about as it had not yet come into existence. There was no time so thoughts of a past, present, and future could not have existed. There was no space yet so there was no concept of here, or there, possible. This lone being, God had nothing to compare itself to, since it existed alone, thus self awareness in the sense of "I am unique" was impossible as there was no non-self around for him to distinguish himself from. Thoughts require things to think about. Since they did not exist he could not have thought about anything really. How could he think of creating a planet like earth, when the very concept of planet did not exist? Such a being would seem to be non-sentient, powerless, and unnecessary. Comments?

The reason the planet earth is visible is because our Creator created it as an illusion within His mind that needs no mass, time or space. Man has no idea where He exists because he lacks the hidden knowledge of God to understand who he is or who our Creator is.
dadman
Posts: 272
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11/19/2013 3:52:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
hidden knowledge of God . ??

Romans 01:18 .. for the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness
01:19 .. because that which is known about God is evident within them .. for God made it evident to them
01:20 .. for since the creation of the world his invisible attributes .. his eternal power and divine nature .. have been clearly seen .. being understood through what has been made .. so that they are without excuse

..... without excuse ( http://www.gty.org... )
And he (God) gave some apostles .. and some prophets .. and some evangelists .. and some teaching pastors .. for the perfecting of the saints .. for the work of the ministry .. for the edifying of the body of Christ .. till we all come in the unity of the faith .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God .. to a perfect (complete) man .. to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . . Ephesians 4:12 .. http://dadmansabode.com... .. come and learn
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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11/19/2013 4:11:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 1:33:50 PM, Naysayer wrote:
You sit on this site and think and interact and reason and have the audacity to mock religious people for believing there is something bigger that created it?

Really?

There is either an existence that is ongoing forever or an existence that was not and then started. (Unless you are the brilliant DDO genius that is RT, in which case there may be a finite universe that has always been and came from naught, yet is not from nothing.)

I didn't say that it is possible that the universe:

Always been and came from naught

but :

Always been and didn't "come from" at all. You can only say "came from" x, if the universe "came from" in the first place.


Either one of those positions is miraculous.

Define "miracle".

And neither is superior to the existence of a God prior to the creation of the universe.

They don't violate occam's razor by assuming something beyond the universe (like a God).
dadman
Posts: 272
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11/19/2013 5:56:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
They don't violate occam's razor by assuming something beyond the universe (like a God) .

God forbid occam would get his razor violated .. ew !! http://www.gty.org...
And he (God) gave some apostles .. and some prophets .. and some evangelists .. and some teaching pastors .. for the perfecting of the saints .. for the work of the ministry .. for the edifying of the body of Christ .. till we all come in the unity of the faith .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God .. to a perfect (complete) man .. to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . . Ephesians 4:12 .. http://dadmansabode.com... .. come and learn
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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11/20/2013 6:33:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 4:11:02 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 11/19/2013 1:33:50 PM, Naysayer wrote:
You sit on this site and think and interact and reason and have the audacity to mock religious people for believing there is something bigger that created it?

Really?

There is either an existence that is ongoing forever or an existence that was not and then started. (Unless you are the brilliant DDO genius that is RT, in which case there may be a finite universe that has always been and came from naught, yet is not from nothing.)

I didn't say that it is possible that the universe:

Always been and came from naught

but :

Always been and didn't "come from" at all. You can only say "came from" x, if the universe "came from" in the first place.


Either one of those positions is miraculous.

Define "miracle".

And neither is superior to the existence of a God prior to the creation of the universe.

They don't violate occam's razor by assuming something beyond the universe (like a God).

Inexplicable within the laws of the universe.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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11/20/2013 7:06:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Can God think and reason?

What would a god have to think about? What would a god have to reason on?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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11/20/2013 10:54:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/23/2013 11:00:14 AM, rroberts wrote:
If I understand the theologians, there existed a hard to conceive of state in which there was nothing yet created, no atoms, no electrons, no light, in fact not even space and time itself, just God. My question is, could this God think and reason? Could he have been self aware? There was nothing material to think about as it had not yet come into existence. There was no time so thoughts of a past, present, and future could not have existed. There was no space yet so there was no concept of here, or there, possible. This lone being, God had nothing to compare itself to, since it existed alone, thus self awareness in the sense of "I am unique" was impossible as there was no non-self around for him to distinguish himself from. Thoughts require things to think about. Since they did not exist he could not have thought about anything really. How could he think of creating a planet like earth, when the very concept of planet did not exist? Such a being would seem to be non-sentient, powerless, and unnecessary. Comments?

I am sorry if this seems rude, but I cannot help but wonedr if you realise just how stupid that question is.

If God could not think or reason, how would have have been able to instantly put a contingency plan in action to sort out teh mess that Satan has caused and get hi original plan back on course?

Let alone predict millennia in advance how that plan would developed along the way and the obstacles it would have to surmount.

We have evidence that he can and did, because that is the major theme of the Bible.
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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11/20/2013 11:35:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 12:34:54 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
If God = timeless then of course he cannot think. Thinking is a process, which requires change, which requires time.

Of course, God doesn't "think" like we do. He says so in the Bible. But here is my point demonstrated.

If in person 2's experience B has always followed A, person 2 is at risk of assuming that B cannot exist without A. So when person 3 postulates only B, person 2 will disagree because he will insist that B MUST be preceded (or accompanied) by A.

Because in his experience change has always required time, he assumes change cannot exist without time. I am not here arguing that change CAN exist without time, but simply that, to assume so only because one is never found without the other is not a logically sufficient reason for the assumption. It doesn't follow.

Every thought, every bit of knowledge, everything which can be known, is known by God and has always been known by God. God exists in all points of time and thought simultaneously. He doesn't need to think from point a to point b. He's already, and has always been, at both a and b.

It all boils down to how you think of God. Many atheists think of God sort of like a very large man in the sky. So they often make the mistake of assuming that the laws governing man, and the processes related to him, apply to God.

If I think of a photon only as a particle, I will question it's wave properties.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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11/21/2013 7:59:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/20/2013 10:54:07 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/23/2013 11:00:14 AM, rroberts wrote:
If I understand the theologians, there existed a hard to conceive of state in which there was nothing yet created, no atoms, no electrons, no light, in fact not even space and time itself, just God. My question is, could this God think and reason? Could he have been self aware? There was nothing material to think about as it had not yet come into existence. There was no time so thoughts of a past, present, and future could not have existed. There was no space yet so there was no concept of here, or there, possible. This lone being, God had nothing to compare itself to, since it existed alone, thus self awareness in the sense of "I am unique" was impossible as there was no non-self around for him to distinguish himself from. Thoughts require things to think about. Since they did not exist he could not have thought about anything really. How could he think of creating a planet like earth, when the very concept of planet did not exist? Such a being would seem to be non-sentient, powerless, and unnecessary. Comments?

I am sorry if this seems rude, but I cannot help but wonedr if you realise just how stupid that question is.

If God could not think or reason, how would have have been able to instantly put a contingency plan in action to sort out teh mess that Satan has caused and get hi original plan back on course?
Oh dear that is a piss poor defence for an omnipotent, omniscient god. It actually shows how stupid he is.
Let alone predict millennia in advance how that plan would developed along the way and the obstacles it would have to surmount.
Yeah well he's got all that wrong so far as well. What are you now a witness for the prosecution?
We have evidence that he can and did, because that is the major theme of the Bible.
The bible is a catalogue of your gods fvck ups. I suggest you quit while you are halfway to the ocean floor.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
leviticus88
Posts: 18
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11/21/2013 8:09:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/23/2013 11:00:14 AM, rroberts wrote:
If I understand the theologians, there existed a hard to conceive of state in which there was nothing yet created, no atoms, no electrons, no light, in fact not even space and time itself, just God. My question is, could this God think and reason? Could he have been self aware? There was nothing material to think about as it had not yet come into existence. There was no time so thoughts of a past, present, and future could not have existed. There was no space yet so there was no concept of here, or there, possible. This lone being, God had nothing to compare itself to, since it existed alone, thus self awareness in the sense of "I am unique" was impossible as there was no non-self around for him to distinguish himself from. Thoughts require things to think about. Since they did not exist he could not have thought about anything really. How could he think of creating a planet like earth, when the very concept of planet did not exist? Such a being would seem to be non-sentient, powerless, and unnecessary. Comments?

Does your argument not also apply to the "big bang theory". Fundamentally you struggle with anything existing before everything existed but that is precisely what science says. There was nothing and then there was everything.

God is infinite and thus unlimited by anything. He is above it all, beyond it. Without limit, making your question irrelevant as it simply does not apply to the definition of God.

The box you are trying to put God in, is not large enough to contain him. The box that is large enough to contain God is infinitely too large for us to comprehend.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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11/21/2013 9:29:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/21/2013 8:09:44 PM, leviticus88 wrote:
At 10/23/2013 11:00:14 AM, rroberts wrote:
If I understand the theologians, there existed a hard to conceive of state in which there was nothing yet created, no atoms, no electrons, no light, in fact not even space and time itself, just God. My question is, could this God think and reason? Could he have been self aware? There was nothing material to think about as it had not yet come into existence. There was no time so thoughts of a past, present, and future could not have existed. There was no space yet so there was no concept of here, or there, possible. This lone being, God had nothing to compare itself to, since it existed alone, thus self awareness in the sense of "I am unique" was impossible as there was no non-self around for him to distinguish himself from. Thoughts require things to think about. Since they did not exist he could not have thought about anything really. How could he think of creating a planet like earth, when the very concept of planet did not exist? Such a being would seem to be non-sentient, powerless, and unnecessary. Comments?

Does your argument not also apply to the "big bang theory". Fundamentally you struggle with anything existing before everything existed but that is precisely what science says. There was nothing and then there was everything.
Produce a citation to support this.
God is infinite and thus unlimited by anything. He is above it all, beyond it. Without limit, making your question irrelevant as it simply does not apply to the definition of God.

The box you are trying to put God in, is not large enough to contain him. The box that is large enough to contain God is infinitely too large for us to comprehend.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Ayyuba
Posts: 218
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11/21/2013 11:50:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If we are made in God's image, and we can, yes He can.
So you wanna know all about Sitara, huh? Knowledge is power, and you want knowledge of me? With great power comes great responsibility, so I hope you understand what you're getting yourself into. Don't say I didn't warn you.
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Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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11/22/2013 8:50:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 1:36:47 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/25/2013 5:01:10 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Time is infinite until you give a good definition and reason why it would be finite ?!!

Time is always finite because it requires a frame of reference to measure.

You confuse time, and period of time, in physics people say time for period of time, but time isn't a period of time..
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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11/22/2013 10:31:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/22/2013 8:50:15 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 11/19/2013 1:36:47 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/25/2013 5:01:10 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
Time is infinite until you give a good definition and reason why it would be finite ?!!

Time is always finite because it requires a frame of reference to measure.

You confuse time, and period of time, in physics people say time for period of time, but time isn't a period of time..

Eh. Depends on who you ask. Biblically, once we head out into eternity, time is eliminated, hence finite.
leviticus88
Posts: 18
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11/22/2013 5:20:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/21/2013 9:29:19 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/21/2013 8:09:44 PM, leviticus88 wrote:
At 10/23/2013 11:00:14 AM, rroberts wrote:
If I understand the theologians, there existed a hard to conceive of state in which there was nothing yet created, no atoms, no electrons, no light, in fact not even space and time itself, just God. My question is, could this God think and reason? Could he have been self aware? There was nothing material to think about as it had not yet come into existence. There was no time so thoughts of a past, present, and future could not have existed. There was no space yet so there was no concept of here, or there, possible. This lone being, God had nothing to compare itself to, since it existed alone, thus self awareness in the sense of "I am unique" was impossible as there was no non-self around for him to distinguish himself from. Thoughts require things to think about. Since they did not exist he could not have thought about anything really. How could he think of creating a planet like earth, when the very concept of planet did not exist? Such a being would seem to be non-sentient, powerless, and unnecessary. Comments?

Does your argument not also apply to the "big bang theory". Fundamentally you struggle with anything existing before everything existed but that is precisely what science says. There was nothing and then there was everything.
Produce a citation to support this.
God is infinite and thus unlimited by anything. He is above it all, beyond it. Without limit, making your question irrelevant as it simply does not apply to the definition of God.

The box you are trying to put God in, is not large enough to contain him. The box that is large enough to contain God is infinitely too large for us to comprehend.

Doesn't get much more simple than this http://www.universetoday.com...

Quote:
"What is the big bang theory? Well. It is only one of the most important theories in astronomy. The basics of the theory are fairly simple. All of the current and past matter in the universe came into existence at the same time. At a point in time, about 13.7 billion years ago. --- Another question that comes to mind is whether or not space and time existed prior to the big bang. A trio of highly respected astrophysicists have published papers plainly saying no. Steven Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose based their work on the basics of Einstein"s theory of general relativity. Their calculations led them to believe that time and space had a definite beginning and the beginning corresponds directly with the big bang. In other words, the big bang was the beginning of everything."

Before the "Big Bang" there was nothing and after there was everything.
Sounds like Genesis 1 to me.

Care to answer to the rest of my post or do I need to explain further what YOU believe?
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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11/22/2013 5:26:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
ALL supernatural god(s) can do whatever their human Creators say they can do!

My god can do this, my god can do that etc. etc.

ALL Supernatural god(s) are the 100% fabrication concept of / by some humans!
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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11/23/2013 10:02:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/21/2013 8:09:44 PM, leviticus88 wrote:
At 10/23/2013 11:00:14 AM, rroberts wrote:
If I understand the theologians, there existed a hard to conceive of state in which there was nothing yet created, no atoms, no electrons, no light, in fact not even space and time itself, just God. My question is, could this God think and reason? Could he have been self aware? There was nothing material to think about as it had not yet come into existence. There was no time so thoughts of a past, present, and future could not have existed. There was no space yet so there was no concept of here, or there, possible. This lone being, God had nothing to compare itself to, since it existed alone, thus self awareness in the sense of "I am unique" was impossible as there was no non-self around for him to distinguish himself from. Thoughts require things to think about. Since they did not exist he could not have thought about anything really. How could he think of creating a planet like earth, when the very concept of planet did not exist? Such a being would seem to be non-sentient, powerless, and unnecessary. Comments?

Does your argument not also apply to the "big bang theory". Fundamentally you struggle with anything existing before everything existed but that is precisely what science says. There was nothing and then there was everything.

God is infinite and thus unlimited by anything. He is above it all, beyond it. Without limit, making your question irrelevant as it simply does not apply to the definition of God.

The box you are trying to put God in, is not large enough to contain him. The box that is large enough to contain God is infinitely too large for us to comprehend.

The humility of science is it doesn't purport to have all the answers.

One is right in saying, something from nothing or something has always existed doesn't make sense. These statements are both illogical; whether they are statements about God or the Universe is immaterial. Yet, the truth is one of these propositions must necessarily be true; however, to say only God may have the quality of being eternal or existing before all, else, and not the Universe can only be said arbitrarily and capriciously.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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11/23/2013 10:07:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/22/2013 5:20:07 PM, leviticus88 wrote:
At 11/21/2013 9:29:19 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/21/2013 8:09:44 PM, leviticus88 wrote:
At 10/23/2013 11:00:14 AM, rroberts wrote:
If I understand the theologians, there existed a hard to conceive of state in which there was nothing yet created, no atoms, no electrons, no light, in fact not even space and time itself, just God. My question is, could this God think and reason? Could he have been self aware? There was nothing material to think about as it had not yet come into existence. There was no time so thoughts of a past, present, and future could not have existed. There was no space yet so there was no concept of here, or there, possible. This lone being, God had nothing to compare itself to, since it existed alone, thus self awareness in the sense of "I am unique" was impossible as there was no non-self around for him to distinguish himself from. Thoughts require things to think about. Since they did not exist he could not have thought about anything really. How could he think of creating a planet like earth, when the very concept of planet did not exist? Such a being would seem to be non-sentient, powerless, and unnecessary. Comments?

Does your argument not also apply to the "big bang theory". Fundamentally you struggle with anything existing before everything existed but that is precisely what science says. There was nothing and then there was everything.
Produce a citation to support this.
God is infinite and thus unlimited by anything. He is above it all, beyond it. Without limit, making your question irrelevant as it simply does not apply to the definition of God.

The box you are trying to put God in, is not large enough to contain him. The box that is large enough to contain God is infinitely too large for us to comprehend.

Doesn't get much more simple than this http://www.universetoday.com...

Quote:
"What is the big bang theory? Well. It is only one of the most important theories in astronomy. The basics of the theory are fairly simple. All of the current and past matter in the universe came into existence at the same time. At a point in time, about 13.7 billion years ago. --- Another question that comes to mind is whether or not space and time existed prior to the big bang. A trio of highly respected astrophysicists have published papers plainly saying no. Steven Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose based their work on the basics of Einstein"s theory of general relativity. Their calculations led them to believe that time and space had a definite beginning and the beginning corresponds directly with the big bang. In other words, the big bang was the beginning of everything."

Before the "Big Bang" there was nothing and after there was everything.
Sounds like Genesis 1 to me.

Care to answer to the rest of my post or do I need to explain further what YOU believe?
And where does it contend in your quotation "nothing"?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin