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Ourdogharold
Posts: 1
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10/25/2013 9:30:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I have been reading peoples views, beliefs and in some cases non beliefs on the religion forum it seems to me that is does not matter if you believe or disbelieve it seems to cause you all a lot of grief Jew arguing with Christian, Christian arguing with Islamist arguing with Atheist and so and so on.
I always thought that Religion or Atheism no matter which one you follow should give you peace of mind It seems this is not the case.
If you are all so happy with your belief why argue ?
You all seem hell bent on destroying each others point of view going out of your way to prove each other wrong.
Be happy with what makes you happy
OurdogHarold
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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10/25/2013 9:35:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well ! not it's a debate site, and not arguing doesn't follow from being happy.

We don't debate because we're unhappy, but to learn and exchange with others, that's part of humans way to acquire more experience, knowledge and wisdom.

And in the case one is on the right path, he probably would want to share that with people he thinks aren't.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/25/2013 12:44:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/25/2013 9:30:34 AM, Ourdogharold wrote:
I have been reading peoples views, beliefs and in some cases non beliefs on the religion forum it seems to me that is does not matter if you believe or disbelieve it seems to cause you all a lot of grief Jew arguing with Christian, Christian arguing with Islamist arguing with Atheist and so and so on.
I always thought that Religion or Atheism no matter which one you follow should give you peace of mind It seems this is not the case.
If you are all so happy with your belief why argue ?
You all seem hell bent on destroying each others point of view going out of your way to prove each other wrong.
Be happy with what makes you happy

How can you teach truth if you do not attack fallacy?

However my faith gives me complete peace of mind because I know that even though I am commanded to preach and to teach, I know the results of that preaching and teaching are God's hands, not mine.

1 Corinthians 3:6-9
6 I planted, A"pollos watered, but God kept making [it] grow; 7 so that neither is he that plants anything nor is he that waters, but God who makes [it] grow. 8 Now he that plants and he that waters are one, but each [person] will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9 For we are God"s fellow workers. YOU people are God"s field under cultivation, God"s building
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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10/25/2013 5:24:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"However my faith gives me complete peace of mind because I know that even though I am commanded to preach and to teach, I know the results of that preaching and teaching are God's hands, not mine."

You get peace of mind because you think that if you preach/teach and get no converts, it's God's fault? It seems to me that such a belief would lead to anything but peace of mind. You cite a passage in I Cor 3 which concludes, "I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase." That's all very well, but your apparent assumption lies in the modus operandi, the how, the medium. the means, by which God gives the increase.

You read that and conclude, "Yeah, I preach the truth. Someone else may preach the truth. We plant the seed, but God above must act directly on the person's mind in order to 'give the increase'." THAT is an error that needs to be stopped. God's "gives the increase" by employing a means - a medium - and I challenge you to find one example to the contrary.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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10/25/2013 6:23:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/25/2013 9:30:34 AM, Ourdogharold wrote:
I have been reading peoples views, beliefs and in some cases non beliefs on the religion forum it seems to me that is does not matter if you believe or disbelieve it seems to cause you all a lot of grief Jew arguing with Christian, Christian arguing with Islamist arguing with Atheist and so and so on.
I always thought that Religion or Atheism no matter which one you follow should give you peace of mind It seems this is not the case.
If you are all so happy with your belief why argue ?
You all seem hell bent on destroying each others point of view going out of your way to prove each other wrong.
Be happy with what makes you happy

Because some beliefs have consequences..........some more so than others. Plus those consequences can effect more than just the individual person, they can effect even the entire world.

If you believe that God hates and has given you permission to kill people who xyz, then it makes perfect sense that you will or support the killing of people who xyz.

If you believe that you have "Gods truth", and this truth will save people, and deviation from it will condemn people, then it makes sense you will indoctrinate people with Gods truth, and censor counter argument, reason and evidence.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/25/2013 6:35:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/25/2013 5:24:50 PM, annanicole wrote:
"However my faith gives me complete peace of mind because I know that even though I am commanded to preach and to teach, I know the results of that preaching and teaching are God's hands, not mine."

You get peace of mind because you think that if you preach/teach and get no converts, it's God's fault? It seems to me that such a belief would lead to anything but peace of mind. You cite a passage in I Cor 3 which concludes, "I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase." That's all very well, but your apparent assumption lies in the modus operandi, the how, the medium. the means, by which God gives the increase.

You read that and conclude, "Yeah, I preach the truth. Someone else may preach the truth. We plant the seed, but God above must act directly on the person's mind in order to 'give the increase'." THAT is an error that needs to be stopped. God's "gives the increase" by employing a means - a medium - and I challenge you to find one example to the contrary.

Not fault, no, choice, as scripture tells us:

1 Corinthians 3:5-9
5 What, then, is Appollos?+ Yes, what is Paul? Ministers through whom YOU became believers, even as the Lord granted each one. 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God kept making [it] grow; 7 so that neither is he that plants anything nor is he that waters, but God who makes [it] grow. 8 Now he that plants and he that waters are one, but each [person] will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9 For we are God"s fellow workers. YOU people are God"s field under cultivation, God"s building.

As it says we sowers of the seed can do nothing if God does not choose to make it grow. Yet another scripture which shows that we do not choose God, he chooses us.

And how does he select us?

1 Corinthians 1:26-31
26 For YOU behold his calling of YOU, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; 27 but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are, 29 in order that no flesh might boast in the sight of God. 30 But it is due to him that YOU are in union with Christ Jesus, who has become to us wisdom from God, also righteousness and sanctification and release by ransom; 31 that it may be just as it is written: "He that boasts, let him boast in Jehovah."

He doesn't wan those who are too self reliant, to sure of themselves, too clever for their own God (no that is not a misspelling).

He wants those who recognise that they are nothing without him, and need his spirit, help and protection as well as guidance.

He wants those who aren't going to take credit for his work, and aren't constantly going to try to rationalise it away (yes like you do), but who are more than prepared to believe what he means rather than what they want to think he means.

Those who are content to preach his word without trying to be clever and change it to suit their preferences.

That's why idiots like me are chosen and not smarty-pants like you.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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10/25/2013 6:41:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/25/2013 6:35:01 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


That's why idiots like me are chosen and not smarty-pants like you.

It's nice that we live in a world where God doesn't slap the sh*t out of people who makes claims on it's behalf.

And cause we don't live in that world, people, everyone, can make what every claim they want and at least know they can't be proven wrong.

People like you Corn take advantage of that fact.

On behalf of humanity...............go f*ck yourself.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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10/25/2013 11:31:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anna: "You read that and conclude, "Yeah, I preach the truth. Someone else may preach the truth. We plant the seed, but God above must act directly on the person's mind in order to 'give the increase'." THAT is an error that needs to be stopped. God's "gives the increase" by employing a means - a medium - and I challenge you to find one example to the contrary."

How many examples did we see? Not a one - and we won't see a one, either. Out of all the conversions in the book of Acts, you can't find a one that demonstrates that God must directly "illuminate" a man in order to effect conversion. Why don't you produce one?

All it would take would be ONE example in the Christian age in which a man was listening to preaching or reading the scriptures, and just couldn't understand it without God stepping in and influencing his mind directly. I do not mean by employing some means, such as a lexicon, dictionary, commentary, or another human. Yet that's what you teach.

MCB: ""However my faith gives me complete peace of mind because I know that even though I am commanded to preach and to teach, I know the results of that preaching and teaching are God's hands, not mine."

Anna: You get peace of mind because you think that if you preach/teach and get no converts, it's God's fault?

MCB: "Not fault, no, choice, as scripture tells us"


Does the scripture at I Cor 3: 5-9 ever tell you the HOW that God gives the increase? If it does, please tell us - and cite the passage.

MCB: "As it says we sowers of the seed can do nothing if God does not choose to make it grow. Yet another scripture which shows that we do not choose God, he chooses us. And how does he select us?"

"For behold your calling, brethren, that not many wise after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put to shame them that are wise; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put to shame the things that are strong; and the base things of the world, and the things that are despised, did God choose, yea and the things that are not, that he might bring to nought the things that are: that no flesh should glory before God. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption: that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."

You think that passage explains "how God selects us"? If you, why don't you point out form the passage how He does it?

MCB: "He doesn't wan those who are too self reliant, to sure of themselves, too clever for their own God (no that is not a misspelling)."

Anna: That is true, but the passage that you've cited do not suggest such a thing. For that, one would look to the first beatitude: "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." The "poor in Spirit" are exactly what you described, the people who realize that they cannot direct their own steps and thus pledge total dependance upon the word of God for their instruction.

MCB: "He wants those who aren't going to take credit for his work"

Anna: I've yet to hear anyone "take credit".

MCB: "and aren't constantly going to try to rationalise it away (yes like you do)"

Anna: Sure, MadCornish, sure .........

Like when I said "shortly come to pass" means shortly come to pass?
Like when I said "this generation" means that generation to whom He was speaking?
Like when I asked for one single example of this later fulfillment business?
Like when I said "ego eimi" means I am - and every grammar and lexicon supports me?

It seems to me that you are constantly having to explain why the scriptures do not teach what they apparently teach. That's "rationalization."

MCB: "Those who are content to preach his word without trying to be clever and change it to suit their preferences."

Anna: Well, I do not believe that "changing the word to suit their preferences" is exactly any evidence of "cleverness". At least you do not appear to me to be all that clever when you alter the meanings of words and phrases to suit your little preferences
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/25/2013 11:55:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Not to worry annanicole!

MCB is crawling his way back to the Cult that vomited out his h-s & ideological claims!

If his plea for clemency is approved, MCB will have to dump his current J.w rejected BS for theirs & then also agree to lie & preach error as commanded by Bethel!

I would love to be in the presence of those 3 Elders that dumped MCB to observe them watching & listening to MCB grovel accede to their terms & conditions!

How sweet it is to even know that this may well unfold!
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/26/2013 2:35:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/25/2013 11:55:11 PM, Composer wrote:
Not to worry annanicole!

MCB is crawling his way back to the Cult that vomited out his h-s & ideological claims!

If his plea for clemency is approved, MCB will have to dump his current J.w rejected BS for theirs & then also agree to lie & preach error as commanded by Bethel!

I would love to be in the presence of those 3 Elders that dumped MCB to observe them watching & listening to MCB grovel accede to their terms & conditions!

How sweet it is to even know that this may well unfold!

I do not grovel to anyone, never have never will. If I did I would no have been disfellowshipped in the first place, lol. I stand for truth against all comers even mistaken Elders.
Mysterious_Stranger
Posts: 1,562
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10/26/2013 2:42:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is a debate site not a "meet the atheist" morning. There is nothing wrong with challenging another persons ideology if you can see reason for it, the key to this is to pick apart their argument and not try to personally attack the person you are arguing with.
Turn around, go back.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/26/2013 2:49:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/25/2013 11:31:05 PM, annanicole wrote:


Anna: Well, I do not believe that "changing the word to suit their preferences" is exactly any evidence of "cleverness". At least you do not appear to me to be all that clever when you alter the meanings of words and phrases to suit your little preferences

And yet you are continually doing just that.

I don't claim to be clever, nor would I wish to be, being clever is what stops people like you from growing close to God.

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God; for it is written: "He catches the wise in their own cunning."

1 Corinthians 1:20
20 Where is the wise man? Where the scribe? Where the debater of this system of things? Did not God make the wisdom of the world foolish?

Job 12:17 He is making counselors go barefoot,
And he makes judges themselves go crazy.

Romans 1:22 Although asserting they were wise, they became foolish

Job 5:13 [To the] One catching the wise in their own cunning,
So that the counsel of astute ones is carried headlong

Luke 20: 22-25
22 Is it lawful for us to pay tax to Caesar or not?" 23 But he detected their cunning and said to them: 24 "Show me a denarius. Whose image and inscription does it have?" They said: "Caesar"s." 25 He said to them: "By all means, then, pay back Caesar"s things to Caesar, but God"s things to God."

I have been privileged to show you God's wisdom, if you do nto respond that tells me all I need to know.

1 Corinthians 3:6,7
6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God kept making [it] grow; 7 so that neither is he that plants anything nor is he that waters, but God who makes [it] grow.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/26/2013 2:59:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/25/2013 11:31:05 PM, annanicole wrote:
Anna: "You read that and conclude, "Yeah, I preach the truth. Someone else may preach the truth. We plant the seed, but God above must act directly on the person's mind in order to 'give the increase'." THAT is an error that needs to be stopped. God's "gives the increase" by employing a means - a medium - and I challenge you to find one example to the contrary."

How many examples did we see? Not a one - and we won't see a one, either. Out of all the conversions in the book of Acts, you can't find a one that demonstrates that God must directly "illuminate" a man in order to effect conversion. Why don't you produce one?

All it would take would be ONE example in the Christian age in which a man was listening to preaching or reading the scriptures, and just couldn't understand it without God stepping in and influencing his mind directly. I do not mean by employing some means, such as a lexicon, dictionary, commentary, or another human. Yet that's what you teach.

As always, an easy one..and this from those listening to the Master himself.

52 Therefore the Jews began contending with one another, saying: "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" 53 Accordingly Jesus said to them: "Most truly I say to YOU, Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood YOU have no life in yourselves. 54 He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; 55 for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. It is not as when YOUR forefathers ate and yet died. He that feeds on this bread will live forever." 59 These things he said as he was teaching in public assembly at Capernaum.
60 Therefore many of his disciples, when they heard this, said: "This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?" 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were murmuring about this, said to them: "Does this stumble+ YOU? 62 What, therefore, if YOU should behold the Son of man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that is life-giving; the flesh is of no use at all. The sayings that I have spoken to YOU are spirit and are life. 64 But there are some of YOU that do not believe." For from [the] beginning Jesus knew who were the ones not believing and who was the one that would betray him. 65 So he went on to say: "This is why I have said to YOU, No one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."
66 Owing to this many of his disciples went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him. 67 Therefore Jesus said to the twelve: "YOU do not want to go also, do YOU?" 68 Simon Peter+ answered him: "Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life; 69 and we have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God." 70 Jesus answered them: "I chose YOU twelve, did I not? Yet one of YOU is a slanderer." 71 He was, in fact, speaking of Judas [the son] of Simon Iscariot; for this one was going to betray him, although one of the twelve.

Why do you think that Christ was able to quote Isaiah and say:

Matthew 13:10-15
10 So the disciples came up and said to him: "Why is it you speak to them by the use of illustrations?" 11 In reply he said: "To YOU it is granted to understand the sacred secrets+ of the kingdom of the heavens, but to those people it is not granted. 12 For whoever has, more will be given him and he will be made to abound; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13 This is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations, because, looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, neither do they get the sense of it; 14 and toward them the prophecy of Isaiah is having fulfillment, which says, "By hearing, YOU will hear but by no means get the sense of it; and, looking, YOU will look but by no means see. 15 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes; that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back, and I heal them."

Did the Pharisees listen, despite their scriptural knowledge leading then to recognise that they were at the point of Jesus illustration of the vineyard?

Luke 20:19 The scribes and the chief priests now sought to get their hands on him in that very hour, but they feared the people; for they perceived that he spoke this illustration with them in mind.

No, Anna they did not listen any more than you do. Because they were "blind guides" blinded by Satan's influence.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/26/2013 3:03:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/25/2013 6:41:08 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 10/25/2013 6:35:01 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


That's why idiots like me are chosen and not smarty-pants like you.

It's nice that we live in a world where God doesn't slap the sh*t out of people who makes claims on it's behalf.

And cause we don't live in that world, people, everyone, can make what every claim they want and at least know they can't be proven wrong.

People like you Corn take advantage of that fact.

On behalf of humanity...............go f*ck yourself.

I don;t work on behalf of humanity, I work on behalf of God, though in the end it is really the same thing.

Why should I not take advantage of free speech, I have no objection to others doing so.

How do you correct people's error without pointing out what that error is in the first place?

At least I don't have to resort to gutter comments, lol, and cheat the "offensive language filter" to do so, lol. I grew up above that level long ago.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/26/2013 3:05:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 2:42:06 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
This is a debate site not a "meet the atheist" morning. There is nothing wrong with challenging another persons ideology if you can see reason for it, the key to this is to pick apart their argument and not try to personally attack the person you are arguing with.

Of course there isn't, nor should we stoop to that level if it can be avoided, but I think you will find I am "more sinned against than sinning", lol.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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10/26/2013 3:15:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 2:35:23 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/25/2013 11:55:11 PM, Composer wrote:
Not to worry annanicole!

MCB is crawling his way back to the Cult that vomited out his h-s & ideological claims!

If his plea for clemency is approved, MCB will have to dump his current J.w rejected BS for theirs & then also agree to lie & preach error as commanded by Bethel!

I would love to be in the presence of those 3 Elders that dumped MCB to observe them watching & listening to MCB grovel accede to their terms & conditions!

How sweet it is to even know that this may well unfold!

At 10/26/2013 2:35:23 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I do not grovel to anyone, never have never will.
Your lies continue unabated!

grovel = Show submission or fear (WordWeb)

Hence you will be grovelling to those 3 Elders that vomited you out & as such you will have to submit to their authority and abandon your current Apostate ideology for Bethel's - theirs!

At 10/26/2013 2:35:23 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
If I did I would no have been disfellowshipped in the first place, lol. I stand for truth against all comers even mistaken Elders.

Mistaken according to YOU the dumped Apostate agent of the J.w Satan, but it is no mistake you will have to grovel & capitulate to them IF you want to be let back in!

Let's hear from them after you tell them they are mistaken? LMAO at MCB!

Give me their Kingdom Hall address/location & I'll write to them and tell them what you think of them, by my giving them a verbatim copy of your comments regarding them?
shubhamsj
Posts: 1
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10/26/2013 12:02:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Religion is a just a word for one but it is life for other,It vary to person to person .But according to me one has to follow the one's religion. It give you the inner strength and spiritual power.It will lead to you the right path of journey.Every one has to show faith and respect their religion.If one is devotee of a particular religion then one have deep believe in that and have fear in mind whilr doing the wrong things in his/her life.

So as there are many religion like Jainism, Islam,Jewish,Christianity and many other. So there is mutual respect for each other and no cold war between them. Every religion have the same goal "peace".No religion gives permission to take like of anybody.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/26/2013 12:26:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 3:15:22 AM, Composer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:35:23 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/25/2013 11:55:11 PM, Composer wrote:
Not to worry annanicole!

MCB is crawling his way back to the Cult that vomited out his h-s & ideological claims!

If his plea for clemency is approved, MCB will have to dump his current J.w rejected BS for theirs & then also agree to lie & preach error as commanded by Bethel!

I would love to be in the presence of those 3 Elders that dumped MCB to observe them watching & listening to MCB grovel accede to their terms & conditions!

How sweet it is to even know that this may well unfold!

At 10/26/2013 2:35:23 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I do not grovel to anyone, never have never will.
Your lies continue unabated!

grovel = Show submission or fear (WordWeb)

Hence you will be grovelling to those 3 Elders that vomited you out & as such you will have to submit to their authority and abandon your current Apostate ideology for Bethel's - theirs!

At 10/26/2013 2:35:23 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
If I did I would no have been disfellowshipped in the first place, lol. I stand for truth against all comers even mistaken Elders.

Mistaken according to YOU the dumped Apostate agent of the J.w Satan, but it is no mistake you will have to grovel & capitulate to them IF you want to be let back in!

Let's hear from them after you tell them they are mistaken? LMAO at MCB!

Give me their Kingdom Hall address/location & I'll write to them and tell them what you think of them, by my giving them a verbatim copy of your comments regarding them?

Do you honestly think I could trust you not to doctor it? Not that they would take any notice anyway since you aren't a brother, and therefore not a reliable source of information. They get that sort of thing all the time from trouble-making outsiders.

Still I don't doubt that at least one or two have seen what I write on here. And since I have stressed all along that it was all done competently according t scripture there is no problem in them knowing.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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10/26/2013 1:32:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 3:15:22 AM, Composer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:35:23 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/25/2013 11:55:11 PM, Composer wrote:
Not to worry annanicole!

MCB is crawling his way back to the Cult that vomited out his h-s & ideological claims!

If his plea for clemency is approved, MCB will have to dump his current J.w rejected BS for theirs & then also agree to lie & preach error as commanded by Bethel!

I would love to be in the presence of those 3 Elders that dumped MCB to observe them watching & listening to MCB grovel accede to their terms & conditions!

How sweet it is to even know that this may well unfold!

At 10/26/2013 2:35:23 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I do not grovel to anyone, never have never will.
Your lies continue unabated!

grovel = Show submission or fear (WordWeb)

Hence you will be grovelling to those 3 Elders that vomited you out & as such you will have to submit to their authority and abandon your current Apostate ideology for Bethel's - theirs!

At 10/26/2013 2:35:23 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
If I did I would no have been disfellowshipped in the first place, lol. I stand for truth against all comers even mistaken Elders.

Mistaken according to YOU the dumped Apostate agent of the J.w Satan, but it is no mistake you will have to grovel & capitulate to them IF you want to be let back in!

Let's hear from them after you tell them they are mistaken? LMAO at MCB!

Give me their Kingdom Hall address/location & I'll write to them and tell them what you think of them, by my giving them a verbatim copy of your comments regarding them?

I'll give you all the info, including all of the damaging evidence regarding MCB's reinstatement as a full-fledged member of the WatchTower followers.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
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10/26/2013 2:46:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 1:32:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/26/2013 3:15:22 AM, Composer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:35:23 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/25/2013 11:55:11 PM, Composer wrote:
Not to worry annanicole!

MCB is crawling his way back to the Cult that vomited out his h-s & ideological claims!

If his plea for clemency is approved, MCB will have to dump his current J.w rejected BS for theirs & then also agree to lie & preach error as commanded by Bethel!

I would love to be in the presence of those 3 Elders that dumped MCB to observe them watching & listening to MCB grovel accede to their terms & conditions!

How sweet it is to even know that this may well unfold!

At 10/26/2013 2:35:23 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I do not grovel to anyone, never have never will.
Your lies continue unabated!

grovel = Show submission or fear (WordWeb)

Hence you will be grovelling to those 3 Elders that vomited you out & as such you will have to submit to their authority and abandon your current Apostate ideology for Bethel's - theirs!

At 10/26/2013 2:35:23 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
If I did I would no have been disfellowshipped in the first place, lol. I stand for truth against all comers even mistaken Elders.

Mistaken according to YOU the dumped Apostate agent of the J.w Satan, but it is no mistake you will have to grovel & capitulate to them IF you want to be let back in!

Let's hear from them after you tell them they are mistaken? LMAO at MCB!

Give me their Kingdom Hall address/location & I'll write to them and tell them what you think of them, by my giving them a verbatim copy of your comments regarding them?

I'll give you all the info, including all of the damaging evidence regarding MCB's reinstatement as a full-fledged member of the WatchTower followers.

Feel free, it won't make any difference. There is nothing you can provide without doctoring it that would damage my re-instatement.
annanicole
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10/26/2013 3:51:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
MCB: "Feel free, it won't make any difference. There is nothing you can provide without doctoring it that would damage my re-instatement."

Anna: Sure there is! Most recently, you have stated that the apostle Paul spoke ignorantly about certain matters - in several epistles, including Romans and Colossians. You also stated that "oikoumene" could not be translated "the entire Roman empire", although every Greek-English lexicon says differently. You have offered no explanation whatsoever for the sudden approximately 45% increase in "Holy Spirit baptized" Witnesses after decades and decades of a slow downward trend. You said there was "no way that could occur" and implied that I was supplying fake numbers, until you discovered that my numbers in fact came from the yearbooks for the last thirteen years.

You have postulated that "ego eimi" may be translated in some manner other than "I am" in a declarative sentence - yet never provided a single Greek-English translation to that effect. Not one. Then you said that the lexicons supported it, and we came to ascertain that they do not, for you lifted statements totally out of context. You took the rules that applied to interrogatories and tried to misapply them to declaratives! No Greek-English translation. Misrepresenting certain lexicographers. And you think the "brothers" are going to appreciate such a mess?

By the way, while perusing the 2000 Yearbook, I saw that the very first sentence of the Worldwide Report states, "In 1935, Jehovah"s Witnesses learned from the Scriptures about God"s purpose to gather a great crowd now, during the present system of things, with a view to their serving Jehovah forever on a paradise earth." In other words, they learned that the quota bound for heaven has been met. Nonetheless, they have now "learnt" that the quota sort-of fluctuates, and now we are at levels of "memorial partakes" not seen in the early 1960's. Surely the "brothers" do not think too highly of your explanation for that. LMAO @ you trying to blame it on ignorance of new converts, without offering any explanation of how this theoretical ignorance was avoided for the prior 65 years.

And a major contradiction is that you claim that the "brothers" did everything "scripturally" - yet they were wrong, i. e. they reached the wrong conclusion. I'd say that is well-nigh impossible. Disfellowshipping of a person never involves personal opinions and personalities: it is based upon sheer facts. Yet the "brothers" stated that they just didn't see enough signs of repentance! Something wasn't done correctly by someone.

No, we'll arrange a neat little packet, and we'll let your "elders" determine whether you are a shining example of holy spirit leading and determine if the WatchTower appreciates you coming on here and doing such stuff.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bornofgod
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10/26/2013 4:14:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/25/2013 12:44:16 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/25/2013 9:30:34 AM, Ourdogharold wrote:
I have been reading peoples views, beliefs and in some cases non beliefs on the religion forum it seems to me that is does not matter if you believe or disbelieve it seems to cause you all a lot of grief Jew arguing with Christian, Christian arguing with Islamist arguing with Atheist and so and so on.
I always thought that Religion or Atheism no matter which one you follow should give you peace of mind It seems this is not the case.
If you are all so happy with your belief why argue ?
You all seem hell bent on destroying each others point of view going out of your way to prove each other wrong.
Be happy with what makes you happy

How can you teach truth if you do not attack fallacy?

However my faith gives me complete peace of mind because I know that even though I am commanded to preach and to teach, I know the results of that preaching and teaching are God's hands, not mine.

1 Corinthians 3:6-9
6 I planted, A"pollos watered, but God kept making [it] grow; 7 so that neither is he that plants anything nor is he that waters, but God who makes [it] grow. 8 Now he that plants and he that waters are one, but each [person] will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9 For we are God"s fellow workers. YOU people are God"s field under cultivation, God"s building

God's plan called the beast is what commanded you to go preach and teach lies. All Christians preach and teach lies so you're not alone. Only us saints have the invisible knowledge of God to preach and teach from but most Christians have no idea what that is. This is why most Christians reject everything we saints write, say or do.
bornofgod
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10/26/2013 4:15:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 2:42:06 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
This is a debate site not a "meet the atheist" morning. There is nothing wrong with challenging another persons ideology if you can see reason for it, the key to this is to pick apart their argument and not try to personally attack the person you are arguing with.

It's easy to pick apart lies with other lies but it's impossible to pick apart the Truth because it remains forever.
MadCornishBiker
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10/26/2013 4:41:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 3:51:23 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "Feel free, it won't make any difference. There is nothing you can provide without doctoring it that would damage my re-instatement."

Anna: Sure there is! Most recently, you have stated that the apostle Paul spoke ignorantly about certain matters - in several epistles, including Romans and Colossians. You also stated that "oikoumene" could not be translated "the entire Roman empire", although every Greek-English lexicon says differently. You have offered no explanation whatsoever for the sudden approximately 45% increase in "Holy Spirit baptized" Witnesses after decades and decades of a slow downward trend. You said there was "no way that could occur" and implied that I was supplying fake numbers, until you discovered that my numbers in fact came from the yearbooks for the last thirteen years.

You have postulated that "ego eimi" may be translated in some manner other than "I am" in a declarative sentence - yet never provided a single Greek-English translation to that effect. Not one. Then you said that the lexicons supported it, and we came to ascertain that they do not, for you lifted statements totally out of context. You took the rules that applied to interrogatories and tried to misapply them to declaratives! No Greek-English translation. Misrepresenting certain lexicographers. And you think the "brothers" are going to appreciate such a mess?

By the way, while perusing the 2000 Yearbook, I saw that the very first sentence of the Worldwide Report states, "In 1935, Jehovah"s Witnesses learned from the Scriptures about God"s purpose to gather a great crowd now, during the present system of things, with a view to their serving Jehovah forever on a paradise earth." In other words, they learned that the quota bound for heaven has been met. Nonetheless, they have now "learnt" that the quota sort-of fluctuates, and now we are at levels of "memorial partakes" not seen in the early 1960's. Surely the "brothers" do not think too highly of your explanation for that. LMAO @ you trying to blame it on ignorance of new converts, without offering any explanation of how this theoretical ignorance was avoided for the prior 65 years.

And a major contradiction is that you claim that the "brothers" did everything "scripturally" - yet they were wrong, i. e. they reached the wrong conclusion. I'd say that is well-nigh impossible. Disfellowshipping of a person never involves personal opinions and personalities: it is based upon sheer facts. Yet the "brothers" stated that they just didn't see enough signs of repentance! Something wasn't done correctly by someone.

No, we'll arrange a neat little packet, and we'll let your "elders" determine whether you are a shining example of holy spirit leading and determine if the WatchTower appreciates you coming on here and doing such stuff.

I guess that I had better keep a copy of this because if you tell them that then it will only stand me in good stead with them, lol, since there is nothing there which they would not tell you, because as you known I actually quoted most of it from their own publications, lol.

So go on, do your "worst", lol. You can either write direct to the Newquay Congregation, or to the UK headquarters, or even to Brooklyn whose address you should be able to find easily enough.

I really am not worried, and even if I were I still wouldn't run away as you obviously want me to.

You really have started showing your true colours haven't you. Apparently you don;t believe in free speech, at least not in my case, you also seem to think Eugenics could be a good idea, and are showing yourself to be vindictive .

In other words not a Christian bone in your body despite what you claim.

Makes one wonder what you are so afraid of that you cannot leave me alone.
MadCornishBiker
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10/26/2013 4:48:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 3:51:23 PM, annanicole wrote:


And a major contradiction is that you claim that the "brothers" did everything "scripturally" - yet they were wrong, i. e. they reached the wrong conclusion. I'd say that is well-nigh impossible. Disfellowshipping of a person never involves personal opinions and personalities: it is based upon sheer facts. Yet the "brothers" stated that they just didn't see enough signs of repentance! Something wasn't done correctly by someone.

There is no contradiction in that. They followed scripture to the letter, that doesn't prevent humans from making mistakes. Apparently even you think it cold be possible, after all you only said "well nigh impossible".

It is a simple fact that there was so much they didn't, and in fact couldn't know. I would soon have appealed had they done anything unscriptural, because that would have saved me 5 lost years.

So go on, be petty and vindictive but don't be surprised if in the judgement God asks you why you persecuted one of his servants, lol.
annanicole
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10/26/2013 4:58:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I guess that I had better keep a copy of this because if you tell them that then it will only stand me in good stead with them, lol, since there is nothing there which they would not tell you, because as you known I actually quoted most of it from their own publications, lol.

So you are basically saying that they can't do any better than you have? If they make the same arguments that you do, I feel for them.

Makes one wonder what you are so afraid of that you cannot leave me alone.

Oh, you are basically left alone - until one watches you veer off of Biblical doctrines and latch onto WatchTower ramblings.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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10/26/2013 5:34:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 4:58:38 PM, annanicole wrote:
I guess that I had better keep a copy of this because if you tell them that then it will only stand me in good stead with them, lol, since there is nothing there which they would not tell you, because as you known I actually quoted most of it from their own publications, lol.

So you are basically saying that they can't do any better than you have? If they make the same arguments that you do, I feel for them.

Makes one wonder what you are so afraid of that you cannot leave me alone.

Oh, you are basically left alone - until one watches you veer off of Biblical doctrines and latch onto WatchTower ramblings.

I have yet to wander off biblical doctrines, I leave that to you.
annanicole
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10/26/2013 7:10:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 4:48:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/26/2013 3:51:23 PM, annanicole wrote:


And a major contradiction is that you claim that the "brothers" did everything "scripturally" - yet they were wrong, i. e. they reached the wrong conclusion. I'd say that is well-nigh impossible. Disfellowshipping of a person never involves personal opinions and personalities: it is based upon sheer facts. Yet the "brothers" stated that they just didn't see enough signs of repentance! Something wasn't done correctly by someone.

There is no contradiction in that. They followed scripture to the letter, that doesn't prevent humans from making mistakes. Apparently even you think it cold be possible, after all you only said "well nigh impossible".

It is a simple fact that there was so much they didn't, and in fact couldn't know. I would soon have appealed had they done anything unscriptural, because that would have saved me 5 lost years.

So go on, be petty and vindictive but don't be surprised if in the judgement God asks you why you persecuted one of his servants, lol.

Actually, the only possible way an incorrect action could result from following the scriptures would be if the judicial party believed a lie or series of lies from a third party who, although convincing, was in fact lying.

You, however, have had five good years, good years during which your mind could clear. "It has happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog turning to his own vomit again, and the sow that had washed to wallowing in the mire." You've had a chance to see the many points that you can't answer. When you make the same points to them, they won't answer either.

MCB: "So go on, be petty and vindictive but don't be surprised if in the judgement God asks you why you persecuted one of his servants, lol."

That would be very possible if I ever do it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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10/26/2013 7:29:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 5:34:37 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/26/2013 4:58:38 PM, annanicole wrote:
I guess that I had better keep a copy of this because if you tell them that then it will only stand me in good stead with them, lol, since there is nothing there which they would not tell you, because as you known I actually quoted most of it from their own publications, lol.

So you are basically saying that they can't do any better than you have? If they make the same arguments that you do, I feel for them.

Makes one wonder what you are so afraid of that you cannot leave me alone.

Oh, you are basically left alone - until one watches you veer off of Biblical doctrines and latch onto WatchTower ramblings.

I have yet to wander off biblical doctrines, I leave that to you.

Sure ya have, and it's easy to spot. When you start rambling nonsense about "first fulfillment" and "second fulfillment", then can't find a single example of such an occurance, you've ... what? "Veered off Biblical doctrines." When you start up defending arguably the worst pseudotranslation of the Bible known to man, you've .... what? "Veered off Biblical doctrines." When you start telling people that God's reward for YOU is that you get to live in your own house that you built from which you can look out and see snakes eating dust - and carnivores grazing in the fields, you've .... what? "Veered off Biblical doctrines".

You do it quite frequently, really. You do it equally to atheists. If an atheist even mentions heaven. you'll remind him that your reward is that you get to watch carnivores like lions and tigers graze in the fescue fields - without ever realizing that such an ability necessitates a miracle on their digestive systems, and a complete alteration in their DNA. For instance, cats cannot manufacture their own taurine, i. e. their taurine must be supplied from food sources. Guess what? Grass, leaves, and fruit contain practically no taurine. What happens when a cat receives no taurine? Blindness. Your paradise, however, necessitates that these taurine-dependent carvivores eat hay! I'm not sure the WatchTower has ever explained that, mainly because I'm not sure anyone else ever thought it up. They'd probably smile and say, "Trust in Jehovah - and trust in His faithful and discreet slave, i.e. worship Jehovah and give the WatchTower your money."

You can't explain it, and WatchTower doctrine does not address it. But I can guarantee you that a true carnivore such as the felids will go blind pretty quickly with taurine - and the felids get their taurine from MEAT.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
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10/26/2013 8:26:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 7:29:17 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:34:37 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 10/26/2013 4:58:38 PM, annanicole wrote:
I guess that I had better keep a copy of this because if you tell them that then it will only stand me in good stead with them, lol, since there is nothing there which they would not tell you, because as you known I actually quoted most of it from their own publications, lol.

So you are basically saying that they can't do any better than you have? If they make the same arguments that you do, I feel for them.

Makes one wonder what you are so afraid of that you cannot leave me alone.

Oh, you are basically left alone - until one watches you veer off of Biblical doctrines and latch onto WatchTower ramblings.

I have yet to wander off biblical doctrines, I leave that to you.

Sure ya have, and it's easy to spot. When you start rambling nonsense about "first fulfillment" and "second fulfillment", then can't find a single example of such an occurance, you've ... what? "Veered off Biblical doctrines." When you start up defending arguably the worst pseudotranslation of the Bible known to man, you've .... what? "Veered off Biblical doctrines." When you start telling people that God's reward for YOU is that you get to live in your own house that you built from which you can look out and see snakes eating dust - and carnivores grazing in the fields, you've .... what? "Veered off Biblical doctrines".

You do it quite frequently, really. You do it equally to atheists. If an atheist even mentions heaven. you'll remind him that your reward is that you get to watch carnivores like lions and tigers graze in the fescue fields - without ever realizing that such an ability necessitates a miracle on their digestive systems, and a complete alteration in their DNA. For instance, cats cannot manufacture their own taurine, i. e. their taurine must be supplied from food sources. Guess what? Grass, leaves, and fruit contain practically no taurine. What happens when a cat receives no taurine? Blindness. Your paradise, however, necessitates that these taurine-dependent carvivores eat hay! I'm not sure the WatchTower has ever explained that, mainly because I'm not sure anyone else ever thought it up. They'd probably smile and say, "Trust in Jehovah - and trust in His faithful and discreet slave, i.e. worship Jehovah and give the WatchTower your money."

You can't explain it, and WatchTower doctrine does not address it. But I can guarantee you that a true carnivore such as the felids will go blind pretty quickly with taurine - and the felids get their taurine from MEAT.

Since all animal creation was designed to eat vegetation exclusively, as Genesis 1 tells us, then any lack must be due to our imperfection, and therefore will be corrected after Armageddon.

Again you show a complete lack of faith in God and Christ.

What God wants, he will get.

Trust in Jehovah? Of course, totally and completely, and he has never let me down yet, nor will he as long as I don't let him down.

Jeremiah 17: 7 Blessed is the able-bodied man who puts his trust in Jehovah, and whose confidence Jehovah has become.

Psalm 34:8
8 Taste and see that Jehovah is good,+ O YOU people;
Happy is the able-bodied man that takes refuge in him.

Psalm 125:1
1 Those trusting in Jehovah
Are like Mount Zion, which cannot be made to totter, but dwells even to time indefinite.

Psalm 146:5
5 Happy is the one who has the God of Jacob for his help,
Whose hope is in Jehovah his God,

Proverbs 16:20
20 He that is showing insight in a matter will find good, and happy is he that is trusting in Jehovah.

Isaiah 26:3
3 The inclination that is well supported you will safeguard in continuous peace, because it is in you that one is made to trust.

Isaiah 30:18
18 And therefore Jehovah will keep in expectation of showing YOU favor, and therefore he will rise up to show YOU mercy. For Jehovah is a God of judgment. Happy are all those keeping in expectation of him.

1 Chronicles 5:20
20 And they came to be helped against them, so that the Hagrites and all those who were with them were given into their hand, for it was to God that they called for aid in the war, and he let himself be entreated in their favor because they trusted in him.

Psalm 33:21
21 For in him our heart rejoices;
For in his holy name we have put our trust.

Psalm 118:8
8 It is better to take refuge in Jehovah
Than to trust in earthling man.

Proverbs 3:5
5 Trust in Jehovah with all your heart+ and do not lean upon your own understanding.

Jeremiah 17:7
7 Blessed is the able-bodied man who puts his trust in Jehovah, and whose confidence Jehovah has become.

If Jesus and the Apostles could trust in Jehovah, so can I.