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Bible Contradiction?

Rational_Thinker9119
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10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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10/26/2013 3:02:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

The only counter to this argument that I can think of is that the bible has been translated into English from many other languages including Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. Perhaps the words used for jealous in these verses were not the same words and had different meanings in the original language(s). This should be researched before presenting the argument to a Bible scholar.

I am an atheist and I am not trying to defend the Bible.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/26/2013 3:04:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 3:02:57 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

The only counter to this argument that I can think of is that the bible has been translated into English from many other languages including Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. Perhaps the words used for jealous in these verses were not the same words and had different meanings in the original language(s). This should be researched before presenting the argument to a Bible scholar.

I am an atheist and I am not trying to defend the Bible.

Well, I'm sure a translation error is possible, but it certainly seems like a contradiction prima facie.
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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10/26/2013 3:20:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 3:08:44 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
We could deny any Bible verse based on that counter argument, so I'm sure it is too convincing.

you are right
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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10/26/2013 3:21:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 3:20:43 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 10/26/2013 3:08:44 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
We could deny any Bible verse based on that counter argument, so I'm sure it is too convincing.

you are right

and I know you meant to say "I'm NOT sure...."
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/26/2013 3:48:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 3:21:52 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 10/26/2013 3:20:43 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 10/26/2013 3:08:44 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
We could deny any Bible verse based on that counter argument, so I'm sure it is too convincing.

you are right

and I know you meant to say "I'm NOT sure...."

Yes, I forgot to add that lol
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/26/2013 4:21:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

If you had the knowledge of God, you would see that most of the new testament contradicts the prophecies in the old testament. Christians always find a ways to line up the religious beliefs that the Roman Vatican added to their new testament with the old testament prophecies. But most of the time, they tell their Christians that the prophecies have nothing to do with the new testament because their false god named Jesus brought a new way of thinking to them. This is a very bad lie that has deceived most Christians. Jesus didn't bring anything new. All He did was speak for our Creator like I and all the other saints did. God uses our flesh to let us know who He is and what the future will be by having us read the prophecies so He can interpret them.
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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10/26/2013 4:42:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 3:02:57 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

The only counter to this argument that I can think of is that the bible has been translated into English from many other languages including Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. Perhaps the words used for jealous in these verses were not the same words and had different meanings in the original language(s). This should be researched before presenting the argument to a Bible scholar.

I am an atheist and I am not trying to defend the Bible.

We can actually check them.

In Hebrew the word is "qanna'" which means "jealous (only of God)"
http://www.blueletterbible.org...

In the Greek the word is zeloo
http://www.blueletterbible.org...

to burn with zeal

to be heated or to boil with envy, hatred, anger

in a good sense, to be zealous in the pursuit of good

to desire earnestly, pursue

to desire one earnestly, to strive after, busy one's self about him

to exert one's self for one (that he may not be torn from me)

to be the object of the zeal of others, to be zealously sought after

to envy



It looks like it means slightly different things, but in the bible God definitely has been " heated with envy, hatred, and anger"
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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10/26/2013 4:51:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 4:42:53 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 3:02:57 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

The only counter to this argument that I can think of is that the bible has been translated into English from many other languages including Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. Perhaps the words used for jealous in these verses were not the same words and had different meanings in the original language(s). This should be researched before presenting the argument to a Bible scholar.

I am an atheist and I am not trying to defend the Bible.

We can actually check them.

In Hebrew the word is "qanna'" which means "jealous (only of God)"
http://www.blueletterbible.org...

In the Greek the word is zeloo
http://www.blueletterbible.org...

to burn with zeal

to be heated or to boil with envy, hatred, anger

in a good sense, to be zealous in the pursuit of good

to desire earnestly, pursue

to desire one earnestly, to strive after, busy one's self about him

to exert one's self for one (that he may not be torn from me)

to be the object of the zeal of others, to be zealously sought after

to envy



It looks like it means slightly different things, but in the bible God definitely has been " heated with envy, hatred, and anger"

are you certain that these were the actual words used by the original writers of these passages? I am sure there are many words in both greek and hebrew that could loosely (and i emphasize loosely) and smewhat erroneously be translated to "jealousy".
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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10/26/2013 5:07:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 4:51:52 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 10/26/2013 4:42:53 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 3:02:57 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

The only counter to this argument that I can think of is that the bible has been translated into English from many other languages including Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. Perhaps the words used for jealous in these verses were not the same words and had different meanings in the original language(s). This should be researched before presenting the argument to a Bible scholar.

I am an atheist and I am not trying to defend the Bible.

We can actually check them.

In Hebrew the word is "qanna'" which means "jealous (only of God)"
http://www.blueletterbible.org...

In the Greek the word is zeloo
http://www.blueletterbible.org...

to burn with zeal

to be heated or to boil with envy, hatred, anger

in a good sense, to be zealous in the pursuit of good

to desire earnestly, pursue

to desire one earnestly, to strive after, busy one's self about him

to exert one's self for one (that he may not be torn from me)

to be the object of the zeal of others, to be zealously sought after

to envy



It looks like it means slightly different things, but in the bible God definitely has been " heated with envy, hatred, and anger"

are you certain that these were the actual words used by the original writers of these passages? I am sure there are many words in both greek and hebrew that could loosely (and i emphasize loosely) and smewhat erroneously be translated to "jealousy".

No, I'm not certain. We can't be because we don't have the original writings, but we know that is the word used in the texts we have. There could be words that loosely translate into jealousy, but a perfect God should preserve his book. If not, that would be a good reason to think Christianity is improbable.
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
Such
Posts: 1,110
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10/26/2013 5:12:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

Snap.
Such
Posts: 1,110
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10/26/2013 5:14:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
4 "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God,
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/26/2013 5:26:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

Stick to the King James, you won't have those sort of silly inconveniences. And before you start, envy and jealousy are not the same thing. Envy is to want something that is not yours, jealousy is to display proprietary ownership of something that is.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/26/2013 5:50:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 5:26:56 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

Stick to the King James, you won't have those sort of silly inconveniences. And before you start, envy and jealousy are not the same thing. Envy is to want something that is not yours, jealousy is to display proprietary ownership of something that is.

Envy and jealous are synonymous, so your argument is moot.

"envy is to want something that is not yours"

jeal"ou"sy
an unhappy or angry feeling of wanting to have what someone else has[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Well, if your definition of envy is true, then jealous is synonymous with it.

"Synonyms
covetousness, enviousness, green-eyed monster, invidiousness, envy, resentment"[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/26/2013 5:52:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 5:50:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:26:56 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

Stick to the King James, you won't have those sort of silly inconveniences. And before you start, envy and jealousy are not the same thing. Envy is to want something that is not yours, jealousy is to display proprietary ownership of something that is.

Envy and jealous are synonymous, so your argument is moot.


"envy is to want something that is not yours"

jeal"ou"sy
an unhappy or angry feeling of wanting to have what someone else has[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Well, if your definition of envy is true, then jealous is synonymous with it.

"Synonyms
covetousness, enviousness, green-eyed monster, invidiousness, envy, resentment"[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Right. The current definition of jealousy is such. Word usage changes. The biblical uses of jealousy and envy never overlap in the King James.

As far as synonyms, that's not a very strong argument because...

http://dictionary.reference.com...
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/26/2013 5:54:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 5:51:52 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Yup, envious is definitely synonymous with jealous, so it seems you are just splitting hairs [http://thesaurus.com...]

There's no hair splitting. Put in a little more thought and effort and a little less smug sarcasm and you might learn something.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/26/2013 5:54:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 5:52:35 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:50:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:26:56 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

Stick to the King James, you won't have those sort of silly inconveniences. And before you start, envy and jealousy are not the same thing. Envy is to want something that is not yours, jealousy is to display proprietary ownership of something that is.

Envy and jealous are synonymous, so your argument is moot.


"envy is to want something that is not yours"

jeal"ou"sy
an unhappy or angry feeling of wanting to have what someone else has[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Well, if your definition of envy is true, then jealous is synonymous with it.

"Synonyms
covetousness, enviousness, green-eyed monster, invidiousness, envy, resentment"[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Right. The current definition of jealousy is such. Word usage changes. The biblical uses of jealousy and envy never overlap in the King James.

They have to, as they mean the same thing.


As far as synonyms, that's not a very strong argument because...

http://dictionary.reference.com...

That only speaks about some cases.
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/26/2013 6:00:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 5:54:45 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:52:35 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:50:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:26:56 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

Stick to the King James, you won't have those sort of silly inconveniences. And before you start, envy and jealousy are not the same thing. Envy is to want something that is not yours, jealousy is to display proprietary ownership of something that is.

Envy and jealous are synonymous, so your argument is moot.


"envy is to want something that is not yours"

jeal"ou"sy
an unhappy or angry feeling of wanting to have what someone else has[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Well, if your definition of envy is true, then jealous is synonymous with it.

"Synonyms
covetousness, enviousness, green-eyed monster, invidiousness, envy, resentment"[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Right. The current definition of jealousy is such. Word usage changes. The biblical uses of jealousy and envy never overlap in the King James.

They have to, as they mean the same thing.


As far as synonyms, that's not a very strong argument because...

http://dictionary.reference.com...

That only speaks about some cases.

"no such thing as a true synonym."
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/26/2013 6:05:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 6:00:55 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:54:45 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:52:35 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:50:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:26:56 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

Stick to the King James, you won't have those sort of silly inconveniences. And before you start, envy and jealousy are not the same thing. Envy is to want something that is not yours, jealousy is to display proprietary ownership of something that is.

Envy and jealous are synonymous, so your argument is moot.


"envy is to want something that is not yours"

jeal"ou"sy
an unhappy or angry feeling of wanting to have what someone else has[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Well, if your definition of envy is true, then jealous is synonymous with it.

"Synonyms
covetousness, enviousness, green-eyed monster, invidiousness, envy, resentment"[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Right. The current definition of jealousy is such. Word usage changes. The biblical uses of jealousy and envy never overlap in the King James.

They have to, as they mean the same thing.


As far as synonyms, that's not a very strong argument because...

http://dictionary.reference.com...

That only speaks about some cases.

"no such thing as a true synonym."

They are close enough. Like I said, you are just splitting hairs.

Also I would disagree that there are no true synonyms. "Start" and "beginning" mean the exact same thing, like "envy" and "jealousy".
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/26/2013 6:11:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 6:05:58 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:00:55 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:54:45 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:52:35 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:50:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:26:56 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

Stick to the King James, you won't have those sort of silly inconveniences. And before you start, envy and jealousy are not the same thing. Envy is to want something that is not yours, jealousy is to display proprietary ownership of something that is.

Envy and jealous are synonymous, so your argument is moot.


"envy is to want something that is not yours"

jeal"ou"sy
an unhappy or angry feeling of wanting to have what someone else has[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Well, if your definition of envy is true, then jealous is synonymous with it.

"Synonyms
covetousness, enviousness, green-eyed monster, invidiousness, envy, resentment"[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Right. The current definition of jealousy is such. Word usage changes. The biblical uses of jealousy and envy never overlap in the King James.

They have to, as they mean the same thing.


As far as synonyms, that's not a very strong argument because...

http://dictionary.reference.com...

That only speaks about some cases.

"no such thing as a true synonym."

They are close enough. Like I said, you are just splitting hairs.

Also I would disagree that there are no true synonyms. "Start" and "beginning" mean the exact same thing, like "envy" and "jealousy".

If I'm not mistaken, that statement is from the front of the Roget's thesaurus. If not, there's one very similar there. I think I'll trust their opinion, since they're the professionals and it's not exactly in their best interests to state such a thing.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/26/2013 6:18:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 6:11:07 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:05:58 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:00:55 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:54:45 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:52:35 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:50:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:26:56 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

Stick to the King James, you won't have those sort of silly inconveniences. And before you start, envy and jealousy are not the same thing. Envy is to want something that is not yours, jealousy is to display proprietary ownership of something that is.

Envy and jealous are synonymous, so your argument is moot.


"envy is to want something that is not yours"

jeal"ou"sy
an unhappy or angry feeling of wanting to have what someone else has[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Well, if your definition of envy is true, then jealous is synonymous with it.

"Synonyms
covetousness, enviousness, green-eyed monster, invidiousness, envy, resentment"[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Right. The current definition of jealousy is such. Word usage changes. The biblical uses of jealousy and envy never overlap in the King James.

They have to, as they mean the same thing.


As far as synonyms, that's not a very strong argument because...

http://dictionary.reference.com...

That only speaks about some cases.

"no such thing as a true synonym."

They are close enough. Like I said, you are just splitting hairs.

Also I would disagree that there are no true synonyms. "Start" and "beginning" mean the exact same thing, like "envy" and "jealousy".

If I'm not mistaken, that statement is from the front of the Roget's thesaurus. If not, there's one very similar there. I think I'll trust their opinion, since they're the professionals and it's not exactly in their best interests to state such a thing.

If you trust professionals, then you should trust the dictionary websites that all define envious and jealousy the same. Either way, if we say something "starts" is means "it began", they mean the same thing, there is no difference. Similarly, if I am jealous of you, I am envious of you.

What you are doing is splitting hairs, and you haven't even done that successfully.
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/26/2013 6:24:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 6:18:18 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:11:07 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:05:58 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:00:55 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:54:45 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:52:35 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:50:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:26:56 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

Stick to the King James, you won't have those sort of silly inconveniences. And before you start, envy and jealousy are not the same thing. Envy is to want something that is not yours, jealousy is to display proprietary ownership of something that is.

Envy and jealous are synonymous, so your argument is moot.


"envy is to want something that is not yours"

jeal"ou"sy
an unhappy or angry feeling of wanting to have what someone else has[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Well, if your definition of envy is true, then jealous is synonymous with it.

"Synonyms
covetousness, enviousness, green-eyed monster, invidiousness, envy, resentment"[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Right. The current definition of jealousy is such. Word usage changes. The biblical uses of jealousy and envy never overlap in the King James.

They have to, as they mean the same thing.


As far as synonyms, that's not a very strong argument because...

http://dictionary.reference.com...

That only speaks about some cases.

"no such thing as a true synonym."

They are close enough. Like I said, you are just splitting hairs.

Also I would disagree that there are no true synonyms. "Start" and "beginning" mean the exact same thing, like "envy" and "jealousy".

If I'm not mistaken, that statement is from the front of the Roget's thesaurus. If not, there's one very similar there. I think I'll trust their opinion, since they're the professionals and it's not exactly in their best interests to state such a thing.

If you trust professionals, then you should trust the dictionary websites that all define envious and jealousy the same. Either way, if we say something "starts" is means "it began", they mean the same thing, there is no difference. Similarly, if I am jealous of you, I am envious of you.

What you are doing is splitting hairs, and you haven't even done that successfully.

Do you believe in God?
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/26/2013 6:33:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 6:24:39 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:18:18 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:11:07 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:05:58 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:00:55 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:54:45 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:52:35 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:50:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:26:56 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

Stick to the King James, you won't have those sort of silly inconveniences. And before you start, envy and jealousy are not the same thing. Envy is to want something that is not yours, jealousy is to display proprietary ownership of something that is.

Envy and jealous are synonymous, so your argument is moot.


"envy is to want something that is not yours"

jeal"ou"sy
an unhappy or angry feeling of wanting to have what someone else has[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Well, if your definition of envy is true, then jealous is synonymous with it.

"Synonyms
covetousness, enviousness, green-eyed monster, invidiousness, envy, resentment"[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Right. The current definition of jealousy is such. Word usage changes. The biblical uses of jealousy and envy never overlap in the King James.

They have to, as they mean the same thing.


As far as synonyms, that's not a very strong argument because...

http://dictionary.reference.com...

That only speaks about some cases.

"no such thing as a true synonym."

They are close enough. Like I said, you are just splitting hairs.

Also I would disagree that there are no true synonyms. "Start" and "beginning" mean the exact same thing, like "envy" and "jealousy".

If I'm not mistaken, that statement is from the front of the Roget's thesaurus. If not, there's one very similar there. I think I'll trust their opinion, since they're the professionals and it's not exactly in their best interests to state such a thing.

If you trust professionals, then you should trust the dictionary websites that all define envious and jealousy the same. Either way, if we say something "starts" is means "it began", they mean the same thing, there is no difference. Similarly, if I am jealous of you, I am envious of you.

What you are doing is splitting hairs, and you haven't even done that successfully.

Do you believe in God?

No.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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10/26/2013 7:08:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

I'm not sure I would equivocate jealous in 1 Corinthians with jealous in Exodus 20
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/26/2013 7:15:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 6:33:54 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:24:39 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:18:18 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:11:07 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:05:58 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:00:55 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:54:45 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:52:35 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:50:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:26:56 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

Stick to the King James, you won't have those sort of silly inconveniences. And before you start, envy and jealousy are not the same thing. Envy is to want something that is not yours, jealousy is to display proprietary ownership of something that is.

Envy and jealous are synonymous, so your argument is moot.


"envy is to want something that is not yours"

jeal"ou"sy
an unhappy or angry feeling of wanting to have what someone else has[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Well, if your definition of envy is true, then jealous is synonymous with it.

"Synonyms
covetousness, enviousness, green-eyed monster, invidiousness, envy, resentment"[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Right. The current definition of jealousy is such. Word usage changes. The biblical uses of jealousy and envy never overlap in the King James.

They have to, as they mean the same thing.


As far as synonyms, that's not a very strong argument because...

http://dictionary.reference.com...

That only speaks about some cases.

"no such thing as a true synonym."

They are close enough. Like I said, you are just splitting hairs.

Also I would disagree that there are no true synonyms. "Start" and "beginning" mean the exact same thing, like "envy" and "jealousy".

If I'm not mistaken, that statement is from the front of the Roget's thesaurus. If not, there's one very similar there. I think I'll trust their opinion, since they're the professionals and it's not exactly in their best interests to state such a thing.

If you trust professionals, then you should trust the dictionary websites that all define envious and jealousy the same. Either way, if we say something "starts" is means "it began", they mean the same thing, there is no difference. Similarly, if I am jealous of you, I am envious of you.

What you are doing is splitting hairs, and you haven't even done that successfully.

Do you believe in God?

No.

That's a shame. Christ died for you, you know. All you have to do is believe in and acknowledge him.

If you can come up with anywhere in the King James where jealousy means anything other than demonstration of proprietary ownership or where it refers to coveting something that isn't yours, I'd be interested in hearing it.

In the meantime, if you can't resist cherry picking your definitions in a dishonest fashion, I recommend getting a more relevant dictionary. Word usage ain't what it used to be, you know. A lot of words from back then mean the exact opposite now.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/26/2013 7:46:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 7:08:27 PM, stubs wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

I'm not sure I would equivocate jealous in 1 Corinthians with jealous in Exodus 20

How are the used differently?
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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10/26/2013 7:49:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 7:15:40 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:33:54 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:24:39 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:18:18 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:11:07 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:05:58 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 6:00:55 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:54:45 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:52:35 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:50:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 5:26:56 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

Stick to the King James, you won't have those sort of silly inconveniences. And before you start, envy and jealousy are not the same thing. Envy is to want something that is not yours, jealousy is to display proprietary ownership of something that is.

Envy and jealous are synonymous, so your argument is moot.


"envy is to want something that is not yours"

jeal"ou"sy
an unhappy or angry feeling of wanting to have what someone else has[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Well, if your definition of envy is true, then jealous is synonymous with it.

"Synonyms
covetousness, enviousness, green-eyed monster, invidiousness, envy, resentment"[http://www.merriam-webster.com...]

Right. The current definition of jealousy is such. Word usage changes. The biblical uses of jealousy and envy never overlap in the King James.

They have to, as they mean the same thing.


As far as synonyms, that's not a very strong argument because...

http://dictionary.reference.com...

That only speaks about some cases.

"no such thing as a true synonym."

They are close enough. Like I said, you are just splitting hairs.

Also I would disagree that there are no true synonyms. "Start" and "beginning" mean the exact same thing, like "envy" and "jealousy".

If I'm not mistaken, that statement is from the front of the Roget's thesaurus. If not, there's one very similar there. I think I'll trust their opinion, since they're the professionals and it's not exactly in their best interests to state such a thing.

If you trust professionals, then you should trust the dictionary websites that all define envious and jealousy the same. Either way, if we say something "starts" is means "it began", they mean the same thing, there is no difference. Similarly, if I am jealous of you, I am envious of you.

What you are doing is splitting hairs, and you haven't even done that successfully.

Do you believe in God?

No.

That's a shame. Christ died for you, you know. All you have to do is believe in and acknowledge him.

I'm not convinced in the divinity of Christ.


If you can come up with anywhere in the King James where jealousy means anything other than demonstration of proprietary ownership or where it refers to coveting something that isn't yours, I'd be interested in hearing it.

Jealousy means what jealous means, and it means the same thing as envious. You might as well argue that "spliff" doesn't mean the same thing as "dooby", or that "start" doesn't mean the same thing as "beginning".


In the meantime, if you can't resist cherry picking your definitions in a dishonest fashion, I recommend getting a more relevant dictionary.

All the dictionaries agree that jealousy and envious mean the same thing. so, the only one being dishonest here is you.

Word usage ain't what it used to be, you know. A lot of words from back then mean the exact opposite now.

Then we can disregard the entire Bible based on the above. It seems the only one cherry picking is you.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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10/26/2013 8:15:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 7:46:35 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 10/26/2013 7:08:27 PM, stubs wrote:
At 10/26/2013 2:59:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
P1: Based off of The Bible, God is love (1 John 4:8)
P2: Based off of The Bible, Love is not jealous (1 Corinthians 13:4)
C: Therefore, Based off of The Bible, God is not jealous

However, The Bible says God is jealous (Exodus 20:4-5). This seems like a clear contradiction.

I'm not sure I would equivocate jealous in 1 Corinthians with jealous in Exodus 20

How are the used differently?

Well here's on word study on 1 cor 13:4

"(an onomatopoetic word, imitating the sound of boiling water) " properly, to bubble over because so hot (boiling); (figuratively) "to burn with zeal" (J. Thayer); "to be deeply committed to something, with the implication of accompanying desire " 'to be earnest, to set one's heart on, to be completely intent upon'"

That doesn't seem to be exactly what it happening in Exodus. Exodus is much more of an ownership.