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When was Christ Crucified?

Naysayer
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10/26/2013 5:18:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The question has come up about when Christ was crucified. Rather than hijack a thread for what is likely to be a spectacular mess of a debate, I figured I'd start a new one and lay it out quickly to demonstrate and see if we can clear some things up.

I'll entertain arguments, but only from biblical standpoint as far as the text goes and scholarly rebuttals as far as technical things go, like how the Jews kept time. "Nuh uh" or "My priest said" are not reasonable arguments. What does the Bible say?

Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jesus stated that the Son of man would be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Was He exaggerating or making an approximate statement?

Catholic tradition has led us to believe that Jesus was crucified on Friday night and rose on Sunday morning. That each day, if they only use part of a day, the Jews count as a full day. Of course, this still leaves us with only two nights. Where did the extra night go?

The entire tradition of the sacrifice of Jesus is a misconception. Jesus was in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. Exactly three days and three nights. The Bible counts the days down exactly, but not in chronilogical order. You can't just read and pick out the days, you actually have to look at what is going on and match up events.

More spectacularly, the events of Christ's last week match up perfectly with the Passover celebration in the book of Exodus:

Exo 12:1-10
(1) And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying,
(2) This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
(3) Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
(4) And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.
(5) Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
(6) And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
(7) And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
(8) And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
(9) Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
(10) And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.


The first thing that has to be done is to clear up the definition of Sabbath. Contrary to popular belief, Sabbath does NOT just mean Saturday. Saturday, the seventh day of the week, is a sabbath. However, it"s not the only one.

Sabbath means "rest", a rest from work.

Leviticus 16:31 says the Day of Atonement is a sabbath. It is the tenth day of the seventh month. The Hebrew calendar had 29 or 30 days and the Hebrew year had varying days, so it is impossible for that day to always fall on the seventh day.

Exodus 12:16 states that the first and the seventh days after the Passover are always sabbaths. This is called the Feast of Unleavened bread.

Leviticus 25:4 declares an entire sabbath year for the land to rest.

So biblically, sabbath is not just limited to Saturday and this is important to understand the actual events of the final week.

The Passover is eaten on the fourteenth day of the month Nisan. Passover is directly followed by the Feast of Unleavened bread which starts on the 15th and runs through the 21st. Passover day is the day of preparation.

The Jewish day starts in the evening at sunset. (approx. 6 p.m) You can look in the Bible for when their feasts start. It repeatedly states, "on the evening of the ____ day."

The high sabbaths are these special sabbaths. That's what is meant in the gospels by high day.
Naysayer
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10/26/2013 5:20:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Now let's look at the events of the last week. John gives us our reference point:

John 12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.

Six days before the passover. The passover is celebrated on 14 Nisan. That makes it 9 Nisan when Christ shows up. He eats supper and then Mary annoints his feet:

John 12:3 Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment.

After supper puts us into a new day. It is now 10 Nisan and Jesus gets annointed. What happens to that passover lamb on 10 Nisan? He gets separated out:

Exo 12:3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:

10 Nisan is also the weekly Sabbath. We know this because the next day according to John 12:12 is Palm Sunday. Palm Sunday started at six Saturday night, but Jesus enters Jerusalem on Sunday morning. This is the first day of the week, 11 Nisan. Matthew 21:12-13 states this is also the day He throws the money changers out. (For the second time.)

John 12:12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

He goes to Bethany to sleep that night, 12 Nisan, Sunday night:

Mat 21:17 And he left them, and went out of the city into Bethany; and he lodged there.

The next day is as He's coming back into Jerusalem is the event with the fig, still 12 Nisan, but Monday morning:

Mat 21:18-19
(18) Now in the morning as he returned into the city, he hungered.
(19) And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.


Mark lets us know that they spotted the fig tree the next day. This would be Tuesday, 13 Nisan:

Mar 11:20-21
(20) And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
(21) And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.


Matthew 21 continues into the temple where Jesus speaks a parable about the Pharisees and they plot to kill him. Mark 14:1 tells us that this is two days before the feast, so we know we're right on track.
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/26/2013 5:23:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The feast, according to Matthew 21 is in two days, the Jews are plotting to kill Jesus. Jesus sends his disciples off to prepare for the Passover. It"s Tuesday afternoon. It"s 13 Nisan until that evening, when they eat the Passover with Christ. Then it"s a new day and specifically, it"s 14 Nisan, the day the Passover is sacrificed.

After the Passover meal, Jesus washes the disciples" feet. Judas goes out to betray Jesus. The disciples go out to the Garden of Gethsemane to pray. Judas and the High Priest"s soldiers come and arrest Jesus.

They take him to the High Priest"s home. There"s a lot of finger pointing. They turn him over to Pilate who turns him over to Herod who sends him back to Pilate. Pilate knows He"s innocent, knows what is going on, but he turns him over to be crucified.

He carries his own cross up to the top of Golgotha to be crucified.

Jesus died about 3 o"clock. The Jews start counting at six in the morning, so the ninth hour is three in the afternon:

Mar 15:34-37
(34) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
(35) And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calleth Elias.
(36) And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down.
(37) And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.


It"s still 14 Nisan until six o"clock. And it"s still Wednesday. Remember. 15 Nisan is a Sabbath. The Jews don"t want any bodies on crosses during this High Day of the Feast of Unleavened bread. So they go to break the legs of the criminals and Jesus is already dead.

Joseph of Arimethea sees Jesus die and goes to Pilate to ask for his body. Pilate gives it to him and he sticks him in a cave because the time is getting close.

Mar 15:42-46
(42) And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
(43) Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.
(44) And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.
(45) And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.
(46) And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.


Jesus is sealed into the tomb just in time before the Sabbath starts, 15 Nisan. It"s still Wednesday evening.

The wording is a little different on his resurrection. It tells us exactly what day the tomb was found empty.

Mat 28:1-6
(1) In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
(2) And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
(3) His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
(4) And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
(5) And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
(6) He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.


The first day of the week is Sunday. And He"s already gone.

Jesus was in the grave three days and three nights. He could not have spent that last night in the grave because that would have been four nights. Wednesday night, Thursday day, Thursday night, Friday day, Friday night, Saturday day.

The tradition is wrong. The only assumption I have made is that of Palm Sunday (and if you deny that, then the normal time table is still wrong), but the time schedule works out that it would have had to be Palm Sunday or Jesus was a liar. The math works in all other instances. The only issues we have is that our frame of reference is off the slightest bit because the Jews" day ended in the evening, but if you correct for that, everything is perfectly clear.

Jesus died on the Passover. The Sabbath spoken of was the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The first day of the week followed after the second sabbath day that Jesus laid in the grave, Saturday, the weekly sabbath.

Jesus did not rise on Sunday morning. That"s the pagan Easter celebration and I don"t think that"s a mistake, either, but we won"t get into that. He clearly rose on Saturday evening.
annanicole
Posts: 19,792
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10/26/2013 11:57:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
That entire post that Naysayer made looks like that silly doctrine concocted by the Seventh Day Adventists. I'm not saying that's the case here, but one can go on any site run by the followers of Ellen White and get basically the same old argument.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Naysayer
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10/27/2013 1:57:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 11:57:15 PM, annanicole wrote:
That entire post that Naysayer made looks like that silly doctrine concocted by the Seventh Day Adventists. I'm not saying that's the case here, but one can go on any site run by the followers of Ellen White and get basically the same old argument.

I'm not really sure what your point is.
annanicole
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10/27/2013 2:08:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/27/2013 1:57:50 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 11:57:15 PM, annanicole wrote:
That entire post that Naysayer made looks like that silly doctrine concocted by the Seventh Day Adventists. I'm not saying that's the case here, but one can go on any site run by the followers of Ellen White and get basically the same old argument.

I'm not really sure what your point is.

It is saying that it looks like the same line of argumentation pursued by the Seventh-Day Adventists who try to prove that Jesus Christ came forth from the tomb on a Saturday - which implies that we should worship on the Sabbath.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/27/2013 2:12:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/27/2013 2:08:09 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/27/2013 1:57:50 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 11:57:15 PM, annanicole wrote:
That entire post that Naysayer made looks like that silly doctrine concocted by the Seventh Day Adventists. I'm not saying that's the case here, but one can go on any site run by the followers of Ellen White and get basically the same old argument.

I'm not really sure what your point is.

It is saying that it looks like the same line of argumentation pursued by the Seventh-Day Adventists who try to prove that Jesus Christ came forth from the tomb on a Saturday - which implies that we should worship on the Sabbath.

Not at all. The Sabbath ends in the evening. It was still the first day of the week. They just reckon days differently. You couldn't take this line of argument in that direction for that reason.

How do you see the three days and three nights otherwise?
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/27/2013 2:17:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/27/2013 2:12:02 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/27/2013 2:08:09 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 10/27/2013 1:57:50 PM, Naysayer wrote:
At 10/26/2013 11:57:15 PM, annanicole wrote:
That entire post that Naysayer made looks like that silly doctrine concocted by the Seventh Day Adventists. I'm not saying that's the case here, but one can go on any site run by the followers of Ellen White and get basically the same old argument.

I'm not really sure what your point is.

It is saying that it looks like the same line of argumentation pursued by the Seventh-Day Adventists who try to prove that Jesus Christ came forth from the tomb on a Saturday - which implies that we should worship on the Sabbath.

Not at all. The Sabbath ends in the evening. It was still the first day of the week. They just reckon days differently. You couldn't take this line of argument in that direction for that reason.

How do you see the three days and three nights otherwise?

And just to clarify, I wouldn't demand a Saturday night service or say that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast through the Catholic church, either. I go to church on Sunday and I'm quite content with it.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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10/27/2013 3:39:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/26/2013 5:18:16 PM, Naysayer wrote:
The question has come up about when Christ was crucified. Rather than hijack a thread for what is likely to be a spectacular mess of a debate, I figured I'd start a new one and lay it out quickly to demonstrate and see if we can clear some things up.

I'll entertain arguments, but only from biblical standpoint as far as the text goes and scholarly rebuttals as far as technical things go, like how the Jews kept time. "Nuh uh" or "My priest said" are not reasonable arguments. What does the Bible say?

Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Jesus stated that the Son of man would be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Was He exaggerating or making an approximate statement?

Catholic tradition has led us to believe that Jesus was crucified on Friday night and rose on Sunday morning. That each day, if they only use part of a day, the Jews count as a full day. Of course, this still leaves us with only two nights. Where did the extra night go?

The entire tradition of the sacrifice of Jesus is a misconception. Jesus was in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. Exactly three days and three nights. The Bible counts the days down exactly, but not in chronilogical order. You can't just read and pick out the days, you actually have to look at what is going on and match up events.

More spectacularly, the events of Christ's last week match up perfectly with the Passover celebration in the book of Exodus:

Exo 12:1-10
(1) And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying,
(2) This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
(3) Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
(4) And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.
(5) Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
(6) And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
(7) And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
(8) And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
(9) Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
(10) And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.


The first thing that has to be done is to clear up the definition of Sabbath. Contrary to popular belief, Sabbath does NOT just mean Saturday. Saturday, the seventh day of the week, is a sabbath. However, it"s not the only one.

Sabbath means "rest", a rest from work.

Leviticus 16:31 says the Day of Atonement is a sabbath. It is the tenth day of the seventh month. The Hebrew calendar had 29 or 30 days and the Hebrew year had varying days, so it is impossible for that day to always fall on the seventh day.

Exodus 12:16 states that the first and the seventh days after the Passover are always sabbaths. This is called the Feast of Unleavened bread.

Leviticus 25:4 declares an entire sabbath year for the land to rest.

So biblically, sabbath is not just limited to Saturday and this is important to understand the actual events of the final week.

The Passover is eaten on the fourteenth day of the month Nisan. Passover is directly followed by the Feast of Unleavened bread which starts on the 15th and runs through the 21st. Passover day is the day of preparation.

The Jewish day starts in the evening at sunset. (approx. 6 p.m) You can look in the Bible for when their feasts start. It repeatedly states, "on the evening of the ____ day."

The high sabbaths are these special sabbaths. That's what is meant in the gospels by high day.

The Jews didn't understand what "three days and three nights" or "sabbath day rest" meant. Both of these are only symbolic terms that can only be understood by God's saints who are taught directly by Him about the prophecies.

Three days and three nights mean the time that a saint is used by God to testify to His hidden knowledge. It has nothing to do with the length of being crucified.

Sabbath day rest is when us saints are born again into the invisible Kingdom of God where the hidden knowledge exists. God has us stop working in this world to testify in writing and speaking until we're ready to preach the gospel to find believers who will listen to our Creator's voice, which is the gospel. So we rest from this world but we begin working directly for our Creator as His voice.

The sabbath day according to Jewish laws came from the beast, which is where all religions and religious ideas came from. The religious Jews thought Jesus was blaspheming their god of Abraham by breaking their tradition of resting on their sabbath day while Jesus was preaching the gospel on that particular day. According to the laws of God, Jesus obeyed every single command that God gave Him to do or speak. This means every word God put in the mind of Jesus, Jesus spoke it no matter who he faced. He had no fear of the religious Pharisees who thought they were above Jesus and every other saint who preached the true gospel.

These religious Jews had all the saints killed for blaspheming their god of Abraham, while the true saints were speaking for the true Creator every day of the week because they were in God's sabbath day rest. Sabbath day rest also means we are under the New Covenant that ALL God's people will experience in the next age.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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10/27/2013 4:07:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It would seem that it's most likely that the prophet the Bible refers to as Jesus likely would have been crucified somewhere between 30 and 36 CE.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Naysayer
Posts: 746
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10/27/2013 5:13:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 10/27/2013 4:07:46 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
It would seem that it's most likely that the prophet the Bible refers to as Jesus likely would have been crucified somewhere between 30 and 36 CE.

You, sir, win a cookie.
Harikrish
Posts: 11,014
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1/26/2015 8:47:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/26/2013 5:23:02 PM, Naysayer wrote:
The feast, according to Matthew 21 is in two days, the Jews are plotting to kill Jesus. Jesus sends his disciples off to prepare for the Passover. It"s Tuesday afternoon. It"s 13 Nisan until that evening, when they eat the Passover with Christ. Then it"s a new day and specifically, it"s 14 Nisan, the day the Passover is sacrificed.

After the Passover meal, Jesus washes the disciples" feet. Judas goes out to betray Jesus. The disciples go out to the Garden of Gethsemane to pray. Judas and the High Priest"s soldiers come and arrest Jesus.

They take him to the High Priest"s home. There"s a lot of finger pointing. They turn him over to Pilate who turns him over to Herod who sends him back to Pilate. Pilate knows He"s innocent, knows what is going on, but he turns him over to be crucified.

He carries his own cross up to the top of Golgotha to be crucified.

Jesus died about 3 o"clock. The Jews start counting at six in the morning, so the ninth hour is three in the afternon:

Mar 15:34-37
(34) And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
(35) And some of them that stood by, when they heard it, said, Behold, he calleth Elias.
(36) And one ran and filled a spunge full of vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink, saying, Let alone; let us see whether Elias will come to take him down.
(37) And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.


It"s still 14 Nisan until six o"clock. And it"s still Wednesday. Remember. 15 Nisan is a Sabbath. The Jews don"t want any bodies on crosses during this High Day of the Feast of Unleavened bread. So they go to break the legs of the criminals and Jesus is already dead.

Joseph of Arimethea sees Jesus die and goes to Pilate to ask for his body. Pilate gives it to him and he sticks him in a cave because the time is getting close.

Mar 15:42-46
(42) And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
(43) Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.
(44) And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.
(45) And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.
(46) And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.


Jesus is sealed into the tomb just in time before the Sabbath starts, 15 Nisan. It"s still Wednesday evening.

The wording is a little different on his resurrection. It tells us exactly what day the tomb was found empty.

Mat 28:1-6
(1) In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
(2) And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
(3) His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
(4) And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
(5) And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
(6) He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.


The first day of the week is Sunday. And He"s already gone.

Jesus was in the grave three days and three nights. He could not have spent that last night in the grave because that would have been four nights. Wednesday night, Thursday day, Thursday night, Friday day, Friday night, Saturday day.

The tradition is wrong. The only assumption I have made is that of Palm Sunday (and if you deny that, then the normal time table is still wrong), but the time schedule works out that it would have had to be Palm Sunday or Jesus was a liar. The math works in all other instances. The only issues we have is that our frame of reference is off the slightest bit because the Jews" day ended in the evening, but if you correct for that, everything is perfectly clear.

Jesus died on the Passover. The Sabbath spoken of was the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The first day of the week followed after the second sabbath day that Jesus laid in the grave, Saturday, the weekly sabbath.

Jesus did not rise on Sunday morning. That"s the pagan Easter celebration and I don"t think that"s a mistake, either, but we won"t get into that. He clearly rose on Saturday evening.
We accept Christianity is a pagan religion and got the resurrection dates wrong. We also accept the Jews rejected Jesus as their messiah and put him to death for blasphemy. So what difference does it make when he was crucified when Jesus's whole mission was a failure. Even after his resurrection, Jesus never changed the hearts and minds of the Jews. The Christians went on to form the Roman Catholic Church and slaughtered the Jews and destroyed their holy temple. The pagans/Gentiles won.