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A scenario for the religious.

Quatermass
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11/3/2013 12:22:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
A man proposes that he is Jesus Christ returned (as so many do).

What do you, the religious, say. Do you believe him right away? Tell me what procedure you would follow?
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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11/3/2013 12:55:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
if it is actually jesus most people would probably say "you don't look anything like the pictures."
Quatermass
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11/3/2013 12:59:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/3/2013 12:55:00 AM, muslimnomore wrote:
if it is actually jesus most people would probably say "you don't look anything like the pictures."



So Neil DeGrasse Tyson is Jesus now? :P
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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11/3/2013 1:06:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago

So Neil DeGrasse Tyson is Jesus now? :P

well to me he looks more like the people the republicans want to bomb then a blue eyed american.
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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11/3/2013 1:07:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/3/2013 1:06:40 AM, muslimnomore wrote:

So Neil DeGrasse Tyson is Jesus now? :P

well to me he looks more like the people the republicans want to bomb then a blue eyed american.

*than
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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11/3/2013 1:00:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/3/2013 12:22:45 AM, Quatermass wrote:
A man proposes that he is Jesus Christ returned (as so many do).

What do you, the religious, say. Do you believe him right away? Tell me what procedure you would follow?

Jesus won't just return , and there shall be many wars and tribulation before him the worst war between Muslims and Roman Christians.

Jesus is the only man that will kill the anti-Christ , that shall appear before him, and that most ignorants will follow. He will first appear in Jesusalem at the sacred temple (or church or mosque) when Muslims will be about to start praying dawn prayer, their Imam will invite Jesus to lead the prayer, but Jesus will ask him to lead the prayer, then he will take commands afterwards and be the King of the believers, there shall remain no believer from the east or the west((from Muslims, Jews , Christians or any others) except that they will believe in Jesus peace be upon him, he will live 40 more years , His reign will be blessed, and he will get married and get children, then when he will die, all belivers will die shortly after him, and the end of times should come upon the remaining disbelievers.

Basically you can't believe any guy saying he is the Christ , but there are signs to know him even if he doesn't introduce himself.

For his appearance he used to be of average height, white face with redness as if he came out of a shower, broad chest, curly hair, as per authentic hadeeths.
Quatermass
Posts: 166
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11/3/2013 1:04:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/3/2013 1:00:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 11/3/2013 12:22:45 AM, Quatermass wrote:
A man proposes that he is Jesus Christ returned (as so many do).

What do you, the religious, say. Do you believe him right away? Tell me what procedure you would follow?

Jesus won't just return , and there shall be many wars and tribulation before him the worst war between Muslims and Roman Christians.

Jesus is the only man that will kill the anti-Christ , that shall appear before him, and that most ignorants will follow. He will first appear in Jesusalem at the sacred temple (or church or mosque) when Muslims will be about to start praying dawn prayer, their Imam will invite Jesus to lead the prayer, but Jesus will ask him to lead the prayer, then he will take commands afterwards and be the King of the believers, there shall remain no believer from the east or the west((from Muslims, Jews , Christians or any others) except that they will believe in Jesus peace be upon him, he will live 40 more years , His reign will be blessed, and he will get married and get children, then when he will die, all belivers will die shortly after him, and the end of times should come upon the remaining disbelievers.


Magic Mushroom Dream aside, what procedure would you follow if someone claimed to be Jesus Christ and said they had evidence?
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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11/5/2013 8:04:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago

For his appearance he used to be of average height, white face with redness as if he came out of a shower, broad chest, curly hair, as per authentic hadeeths.

This is pure gold, where do you get this information I would love to know.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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11/5/2013 2:10:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/3/2013 1:04:43 PM, Quatermass wrote:
At 11/3/2013 1:00:58 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 11/3/2013 12:22:45 AM, Quatermass wrote:
A man proposes that he is Jesus Christ returned (as so many do).

What do you, the religious, say. Do you believe him right away? Tell me what procedure you would follow?

Jesus won't just return , and there shall be many wars and tribulation before him the worst war between Muslims and Roman Christians.

Jesus is the only man that will kill the anti-Christ , that shall appear before him, and that most ignorants will follow. He will first appear in Jesusalem at the sacred temple (or church or mosque) when Muslims will be about to start praying dawn prayer, their Imam will invite Jesus to lead the prayer, but Jesus will ask him to lead the prayer, then he will take commands afterwards and be the King of the believers, there shall remain no believer from the east or the west((from Muslims, Jews , Christians or any others) except that they will believe in Jesus peace be upon him, he will live 40 more years , His reign will be blessed, and he will get married and get children, then when he will die, all belivers will die shortly after him, and the end of times should come upon the remaining disbelievers.


Magic Mushroom Dream aside, what procedure would you follow if someone claimed to be Jesus Christ and said they had evidence?

Anti Christ will come before him and he will have evidence! one of which is bringing people back to life, people who follow him will become richer and wealthier, and people who don't will starve, it will be the ultimate test, evidence is past, now is time for knowledge, I will only follow the Jesus that is described in the prophecy.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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11/5/2013 3:33:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 8:04:31 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:

For his appearance he used to be of average height, white face with redness as if he came out of a shower, broad chest, curly hair, as per authentic hadeeths.

This is pure gold, where do you get this information I would love to know.

Thank you for asking for reference, that's the right thing to do.

Allah's Messenger (PBUH) said, "On the night of my Ascension to Heaven, I saw (the prophet) Moses who was a thin person with lank hair, looking like one of the men of the tribe of Shanua; and I saw Jesus who was of average height with red face as if he had just come out of a bathroom. And I resemble prophet Abraham more than any of his offspring does. Then I was given two cups, one containing milk and the other wine. Gabriel said, 'Drink whichever you like.' I took the milk and drank it. Gabriel said, 'You have accepted what is natural, (True Religion i.e. Islam) and if you had taken the wine, your followers would have gone astray.' "

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3387
In-book reference : Book 60, Hadith 61
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 4, Book 55, Hadith 601

Narrated Ibn `Abbas:

The Prophet () said, "One should not say that I am better than Jonah (i.e. Yunus) bin Matta." So, he mentioned his father Matta. The Prophet () mentioned the night of his Ascension and said, "The prophet Moses was brown, a tall person as if from the people of the tribe of Shanu'a. Jesus was a curly-haired man of moderate height." He also mentioned Malik, the gate-keeper of the (Hell) Fire, and Ad-Dajjal.

Narrated Ibn `Abbas:

.... and I saw Jesus, a man of medium height and moderate complexion inclined to the red and white colors and of lank hair......

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3239
In-book reference : Book 59, Hadith 50

Abu al-'Aliya reported:

Ibn Abbas, the son of your Prophet's uncle, told us that the Messenger of Allah () had observed: On the night of my night journey I passed by Moses b. 'Imran (peace be upon him), a man light brown in complexion, tall. well-built as if he was one of the men of the Shanu'a, and saw Jesus son of Mary as a medium-statured man with white and red complexion and crisp hair,

Reference : Sahih Muslim 165 b
In-book reference : Book 1, Hadith 326
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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11/5/2013 8:36:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 3:33:23 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 11/5/2013 8:04:31 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:

For his appearance he used to be of average height, white face with redness as if he came out of a shower, broad chest, curly hair, as per authentic hadeeths.

This is pure gold, where do you get this information I would love to know.

Thank you for asking for reference, that's the right thing to do.


Allah's Messenger (PBUH) said, "On the night of my Ascension to Heaven, I saw (the prophet) Moses who was a thin person with lank hair, looking like one of the men of the tribe of Shanua; and I saw Jesus who was of average height with red face as if he had just come out of a bathroom. And I resemble prophet Abraham more than any of his offspring does. Then I was given two cups, one containing milk and the other wine. Gabriel said, 'Drink whichever you like.' I took the milk and drank it. Gabriel said, 'You have accepted what is natural, (True Religion i.e. Islam) and if you had taken the wine, your followers would have gone astray.' "

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3387
In-book reference : Book 60, Hadith 61
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 4, Book 55, Hadith 601

Narrated Ibn `Abbas:


The Prophet () said, "One should not say that I am better than Jonah (i.e. Yunus) bin Matta." So, he mentioned his father Matta. The Prophet () mentioned the night of his Ascension and said, "The prophet Moses was brown, a tall person as if from the people of the tribe of Shanu'a. Jesus was a curly-haired man of moderate height." He also mentioned Malik, the gate-keeper of the (Hell) Fire, and Ad-Dajjal.



Narrated Ibn `Abbas:


.... and I saw Jesus, a man of medium height and moderate complexion inclined to the red and white colors and of lank hair......

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3239
In-book reference : Book 59, Hadith 50


Abu al-'Aliya reported:

Ibn Abbas, the son of your Prophet's uncle, told us that the Messenger of Allah () had observed: On the night of my night journey I passed by Moses b. 'Imran (peace be upon him), a man light brown in complexion, tall. well-built as if he was one of the men of the Shanu'a, and saw Jesus son of Mary as a medium-statured man with white and red complexion and crisp hair,

Reference : Sahih Muslim 165 b
In-book reference : Book 1, Hadith 326

Crisp and Lank could be considered antonyms but never synonyms. oops
Quatermass
Posts: 166
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11/5/2013 8:39:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 3:33:23 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 11/5/2013 8:04:31 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:

For his appearance he used to be of average height, white face with redness as if he came out of a shower, broad chest, curly hair, as per authentic hadeeths.

This is pure gold, where do you get this information I would love to know.

Thank you for asking for reference, that's the right thing to do.


Allah's Messenger (PBUH) said, "On the night of my Ascension to Heaven, I saw (the prophet) Moses who was a thin person with lank hair, looking like one of the men of the tribe of Shanua; and I saw Jesus who was of average height with red face as if he had just come out of a bathroom. And I resemble prophet Abraham more than any of his offspring does. Then I was given two cups, one containing milk and the other wine. Gabriel said, 'Drink whichever you like.' I took the milk and drank it. Gabriel said, 'You have accepted what is natural, (True Religion i.e. Islam) and if you had taken the wine, your followers would have gone astray.' "

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3387
In-book reference : Book 60, Hadith 61
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 4, Book 55, Hadith 601

Narrated Ibn `Abbas:


The Prophet () said, "One should not say that I am better than Jonah (i.e. Yunus) bin Matta." So, he mentioned his father Matta. The Prophet () mentioned the night of his Ascension and said, "The prophet Moses was brown, a tall person as if from the people of the tribe of Shanu'a. Jesus was a curly-haired man of moderate height." He also mentioned Malik, the gate-keeper of the (Hell) Fire, and Ad-Dajjal.



Narrated Ibn `Abbas:


.... and I saw Jesus, a man of medium height and moderate complexion inclined to the red and white colors and of lank hair......

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3239
In-book reference : Book 59, Hadith 50


Abu al-'Aliya reported:

Ibn Abbas, the son of your Prophet's uncle, told us that the Messenger of Allah () had observed: On the night of my night journey I passed by Moses b. 'Imran (peace be upon him), a man light brown in complexion, tall. well-built as if he was one of the men of the Shanu'a, and saw Jesus son of Mary as a medium-statured man with white and red complexion and crisp hair,

Reference : Sahih Muslim 165 b
In-book reference : Book 1, Hadith 326

Sounds like you need to change your username to Fruitcake.
Suqua
Posts: 433
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11/6/2013 12:11:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/3/2013 12:22:45 AM, Quatermass wrote:
A man proposes that he is Jesus Christ returned (as so many do).

What do you, the religious, say. Do you believe him right away? Tell me what procedure you would follow?

As scripture tells us that HE will not put HIS feet on this earth, we will meet HIM in the air.
1Thess. 4:17
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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11/6/2013 1:32:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 8:36:19 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/5/2013 3:33:23 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 11/5/2013 8:04:31 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:

For his appearance he used to be of average height, white face with redness as if he came out of a shower, broad chest, curly hair, as per authentic hadeeths.

This is pure gold, where do you get this information I would love to know.

Thank you for asking for reference, that's the right thing to do.


Allah's Messenger (PBUH) said, "On the night of my Ascension to Heaven, I saw (the prophet) Moses who was a thin person with lank hair, looking like one of the men of the tribe of Shanua; and I saw Jesus who was of average height with red face as if he had just come out of a bathroom. And I resemble prophet Abraham more than any of his offspring does. Then I was given two cups, one containing milk and the other wine. Gabriel said, 'Drink whichever you like.' I took the milk and drank it. Gabriel said, 'You have accepted what is natural, (True Religion i.e. Islam) and if you had taken the wine, your followers would have gone astray.' "

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3387
In-book reference : Book 60, Hadith 61
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 4, Book 55, Hadith 601

Narrated Ibn `Abbas:


The Prophet () said, "One should not say that I am better than Jonah (i.e. Yunus) bin Matta." So, he mentioned his father Matta. The Prophet () mentioned the night of his Ascension and said, "The prophet Moses was brown, a tall person as if from the people of the tribe of Shanu'a. Jesus was a curly-haired man of moderate height." He also mentioned Malik, the gate-keeper of the (Hell) Fire, and Ad-Dajjal.



Narrated Ibn `Abbas:


.... and I saw Jesus, a man of medium height and moderate complexion inclined to the red and white colors and of lank hair......

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3239
In-book reference : Book 59, Hadith 50


Abu al-'Aliya reported:

Ibn Abbas, the son of your Prophet's uncle, told us that the Messenger of Allah () had observed: On the night of my night journey I passed by Moses b. 'Imran (peace be upon him), a man light brown in complexion, tall. well-built as if he was one of the men of the Shanu'a, and saw Jesus son of Mary as a medium-statured man with white and red complexion and crisp hair,

Reference : Sahih Muslim 165 b
In-book reference : Book 1, Hadith 326

Crisp and Lank could be considered antonyms but never synonyms. oops

Yes, He was crisp or curly, not lank, one of the narrators mistakingly switched the speech of the prophet which happens from time to time , you get 3 people reporting from the same narrator, all of them trustworthy, but one switches the information by mistake, but we still have to tell the hadeeth as reported.
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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11/6/2013 6:32:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/5/2013 3:33:23 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 11/5/2013 8:04:31 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:

For his appearance he used to be of average height, white face with redness as if he came out of a shower, broad chest, curly hair, as per authentic hadeeths.

This is pure gold, where do you get this information I would love to know.

Thank you for asking for reference, that's the right thing to do.


Allah's Messenger (PBUH) said, "On the night of my Ascension to Heaven, I saw (the prophet) Moses who was a thin person with lank hair, looking like one of the men of the tribe of Shanua; and I saw Jesus who was of average height with red face as if he had just come out of a bathroom. And I resemble prophet Abraham more than any of his offspring does. Then I was given two cups, one containing milk and the other wine. Gabriel said, 'Drink whichever you like.' I took the milk and drank it. Gabriel said, 'You have accepted what is natural, (True Religion i.e. Islam) and if you had taken the wine, your followers would have gone astray.' "

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3387
In-book reference : Book 60, Hadith 61
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 4, Book 55, Hadith 601

Narrated Ibn `Abbas:


The Prophet () said, "One should not say that I am better than Jonah (i.e. Yunus) bin Matta." So, he mentioned his father Matta. The Prophet () mentioned the night of his Ascension and said, "The prophet Moses was brown, a tall person as if from the people of the tribe of Shanu'a. Jesus was a curly-haired man of moderate height." He also mentioned Malik, the gate-keeper of the (Hell) Fire, and Ad-Dajjal.



Narrated Ibn `Abbas:


.... and I saw Jesus, a man of medium height and moderate complexion inclined to the red and white colors and of lank hair......

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3239
In-book reference : Book 59, Hadith 50


Abu al-'Aliya reported:

Ibn Abbas, the son of your Prophet's uncle, told us that the Messenger of Allah () had observed: On the night of my night journey I passed by Moses b. 'Imran (peace be upon him), a man light brown in complexion, tall. well-built as if he was one of the men of the Shanu'a, and saw Jesus son of Mary as a medium-statured man with white and red complexion and crisp hair,

Reference : Sahih Muslim 165 b
In-book reference : Book 1, Hadith 326

So at this point I have to take the Koran to be true? I think we need to first prove the existence of a God, and then that said God is the Islamic God.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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11/6/2013 7:01:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/6/2013 6:32:07 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 11/5/2013 3:33:23 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 11/5/2013 8:04:31 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:

For his appearance he used to be of average height, white face with redness as if he came out of a shower, broad chest, curly hair, as per authentic hadeeths.

This is pure gold, where do you get this information I would love to know.

Thank you for asking for reference, that's the right thing to do.


Allah's Messenger (PBUH) said, "On the night of my Ascension to Heaven, I saw (the prophet) Moses who was a thin person with lank hair, looking like one of the men of the tribe of Shanua; and I saw Jesus who was of average height with red face as if he had just come out of a bathroom. And I resemble prophet Abraham more than any of his offspring does. Then I was given two cups, one containing milk and the other wine. Gabriel said, 'Drink whichever you like.' I took the milk and drank it. Gabriel said, 'You have accepted what is natural, (True Religion i.e. Islam) and if you had taken the wine, your followers would have gone astray.' "

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3387
In-book reference : Book 60, Hadith 61
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 4, Book 55, Hadith 601

Narrated Ibn `Abbas:


The Prophet () said, "One should not say that I am better than Jonah (i.e. Yunus) bin Matta." So, he mentioned his father Matta. The Prophet () mentioned the night of his Ascension and said, "The prophet Moses was brown, a tall person as if from the people of the tribe of Shanu'a. Jesus was a curly-haired man of moderate height." He also mentioned Malik, the gate-keeper of the (Hell) Fire, and Ad-Dajjal.



Narrated Ibn `Abbas:


.... and I saw Jesus, a man of medium height and moderate complexion inclined to the red and white colors and of lank hair......

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3239
In-book reference : Book 59, Hadith 50


Abu al-'Aliya reported:

Ibn Abbas, the son of your Prophet's uncle, told us that the Messenger of Allah () had observed: On the night of my night journey I passed by Moses b. 'Imran (peace be upon him), a man light brown in complexion, tall. well-built as if he was one of the men of the Shanu'a, and saw Jesus son of Mary as a medium-statured man with white and red complexion and crisp hair,

Reference : Sahih Muslim 165 b
In-book reference : Book 1, Hadith 326

So at this point I have to take the Koran to be true? I think we need to first prove the existence of a God, and then that said God is the Islamic God.

Yes, but maybe you'd need to read the scriptures , you'll certainly find a lot there.

http://quranexplorer.com...

The above scripture that I posted is not the Quran, the Quran is the literal or direct word of God it's in one book, the hadeeth is the sayings of the Prophet in different books by different authors.

http://sunnah.com...

There is no Islamic God,and biblical God, it's all the same God.

If we got a common boss, not because we disagree about his plans does that make him many persons , right ?
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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11/6/2013 8:24:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
So at this point I have to take the Koran to be true? I think we need to first prove the existence of a God, and then that said God is the Islamic God.

Yes, but maybe you'd need to read the scriptures , you'll certainly find a lot there.

http://quranexplorer.com...

The above scripture that I posted is not the Quran, the Quran is the literal or direct word of God it's in one book, the hadeeth is the sayings of the Prophet in different books by different authors.

http://sunnah.com...

There is no Islamic God,and biblical God, it's all the same God.

If we got a common boss, not because we disagree about his plans does that make him many persons , right ?

Thing is I have read the Koran, and I don't see it as evidence for God. If anything it I see it as writings similar to the bible. A set of laws that were man made and were appropriate for a specific set of people at the time. However they are not evidence for God, if anything they are evidence of some smart people who were using them to manipulate people. Evidence for God would be something testable and reliable.

Regarding the common boss, I agree the Bible and Koran are very similar. Problem is the common boss has never been proved.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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11/6/2013 10:54:02 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/6/2013 8:24:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
So at this point I have to take the Koran to be true? I think we need to first prove the existence of a God, and then that said God is the Islamic God.

Yes, but maybe you'd need to read the scriptures , you'll certainly find a lot there.

http://quranexplorer.com...

The above scripture that I posted is not the Quran, the Quran is the literal or direct word of God it's in one book, the hadeeth is the sayings of the Prophet in different books by different authors.

http://sunnah.com...

There is no Islamic God,and biblical God, it's all the same God.

If we got a common boss, not because we disagree about his plans does that make him many persons , right ?

Thing is I have read the Koran, and I don't see it as evidence for God. If anything it I see it as writings similar to the bible. A set of laws that were man made and were appropriate for a specific set of people at the time.

Laws are not the third of the Quran.

However they are not evidence for God, if anything they are evidence of some smart people who were using them to manipulate people. Evidence for God would be something testable and reliable.

Why testable ?! isn't this putting a high expectation you know won't happen till it's too late, why didn't you say some reasonable evidence instead, remember science is built upon reason.

Regarding the common boss, I agree the Bible and Koran are very similar. Problem is the common boss has never been proved.

Well How can you prefer the "possibility" that the universe came magically?! no cause, no purpose, but perfectly set! everything with a rational explanation, yet the universe with no rational cause ?! (nothing is certainly not a rational cause)
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
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11/6/2013 8:32:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/6/2013 10:54:02 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 11/6/2013 8:24:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
Thing is I have read the Koran, and I don't see it as evidence for God. If anything it I see it as writings similar to the bible. A set of laws that were man made and were appropriate for a specific set of people at the time.

Laws are not the third of the Quran.

However they are not evidence for God, if anything they are evidence of some smart people who were using them to manipulate people. Evidence for God would be something testable and reliable.


Why testable ?! isn't this putting a high expectation you know won't happen till it's too late, why didn't you say some reasonable evidence instead, remember science is built upon reason.

Regarding the common boss, I agree the Bible and Koran are very similar. Problem is the common boss has never been proved.

Well How can you prefer the "possibility" that the universe came magically?! no cause, no purpose, but perfectly set! everything with a rational explanation, yet the universe with no rational cause ?! (nothing is certainly not a rational cause)

Reasonable evidence would be rational and testable. I fail to see how it would not be as then it would not be acceptable by most people.

There are models of how the universe started and it does not require magic. The starting of the universe by a God, now that requires magic as the God is not proven. at least the Big Bang assumption is based in Mathematics and Physics. God is based in nothing.
Fruitytree
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11/7/2013 10:56:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/6/2013 8:32:01 PM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 11/6/2013 10:54:02 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 11/6/2013 8:24:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
Thing is I have read the Koran, and I don't see it as evidence for God. If anything it I see it as writings similar to the bible. A set of laws that were man made and were appropriate for a specific set of people at the time.

Laws are not the third of the Quran.

However they are not evidence for God, if anything they are evidence of some smart people who were using them to manipulate people. Evidence for God would be something testable and reliable.


Why testable ?! isn't this putting a high expectation you know won't happen till it's too late, why didn't you say some reasonable evidence instead, remember science is built upon reason.

Regarding the common boss, I agree the Bible and Koran are very similar. Problem is the common boss has never been proved.

Well How can you prefer the "possibility" that the universe came magically?! no cause, no purpose, but perfectly set! everything with a rational explanation, yet the universe with no rational cause ?! (nothing is certainly not a rational cause)

Reasonable evidence would be rational and testable. I fail to see how it would not be as then it would not be acceptable by most people.

God is accepted amongst most people!

There are models of how the universe started and it does not require magic. The starting of the universe by a God, now that requires magic as the God is not proven. at least the Big Bang assumption is based in Mathematics and Physics. God is based in nothing.

The Universe needs to be based on something and not just physics, it needs also a command. God doesn't need a justification, He's infinite.
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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11/8/2013 12:07:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/7/2013 10:56:07 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 11/6/2013 8:32:01 PM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 11/6/2013 10:54:02 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 11/6/2013 8:24:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
Thing is I have read the Koran, and I don't see it as evidence for God. If anything it I see it as writings similar to the bible. A set of laws that were man made and were appropriate for a specific set of people at the time.

Laws are not the third of the Quran.

However they are not evidence for God, if anything they are evidence of some smart people who were using them to manipulate people. Evidence for God would be something testable and reliable.


Why testable ?! isn't this putting a high expectation you know won't happen till it's too late, why didn't you say some reasonable evidence instead, remember science is built upon reason.

Regarding the common boss, I agree the Bible and Koran are very similar. Problem is the common boss has never been proved.

Well How can you prefer the "possibility" that the universe came magically?! no cause, no purpose, but perfectly set! everything with a rational explanation, yet the universe with no rational cause ?! (nothing is certainly not a rational cause)

Reasonable evidence would be rational and testable. I fail to see how it would not be as then it would not be acceptable by most people.

God is accepted amongst most people!
Nope, that's an assumption. You may believe God is universal, but most people adhere to one type of god or no god. So in effect only a few people believe in the correct god.

There are models of how the universe started and it does not require magic. The starting of the universe by a God, now that requires magic as the God is not proven. at least the Big Bang assumption is based in Mathematics and Physics. God is based in nothing.

The Universe needs to be based on something and not just physics, it needs also a command. God doesn't need a justification, He's infinite.

If God is infinite, let me ask you this. Is God involved in our lives. If the answer is yes then God is testable and we can prove God. If no then god exists outside our reality and I will call said god peanut butter as it is meaningless.

BTW This second choice is the deists argument, and is not rational as I pointed out I will call it peanut butter. The beauty of this argument is you can't prove me wrong and I cant prove you wrong. But it is irrational.
Tnkissfan
Posts: 199
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11/10/2013 9:29:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
NO,because any jabo can walk up and claim he is Jesus (as that joker in Mexico is doing and has MANY followers) but the Bible says he will split the eastern sky when He returns and we will meet Him in the air. So, He's not going to be shuffeling his feet on terra firma (sorry,had to thrown the song reference in there. that was a great song ).
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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11/10/2013 6:10:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/7/2013 10:56:07 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 11/6/2013 8:32:01 PM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 11/6/2013 10:54:02 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 11/6/2013 8:24:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
Thing is I have read the Koran, and I don't see it as evidence for God. If anything it I see it as writings similar to the bible. A set of laws that were man made and were appropriate for a specific set of people at the time.

Laws are not the third of the Quran.

However they are not evidence for God, if anything they are evidence of some smart people who were using them to manipulate people. Evidence for God would be something testable and reliable.


Why testable ?! isn't this putting a high expectation you know won't happen till it's too late, why didn't you say some reasonable evidence instead, remember science is built upon reason.

Regarding the common boss, I agree the Bible and Koran are very similar. Problem is the common boss has never been proved.

Well How can you prefer the "possibility" that the universe came magically?! no cause, no purpose, but perfectly set! everything with a rational explanation, yet the universe with no rational cause ?! (nothing is certainly not a rational cause)

Reasonable evidence would be rational and testable. I fail to see how it would not be as then it would not be acceptable by most people.

God is accepted amongst most people!

There are models of how the universe started and it does not require magic. The starting of the universe by a God, now that requires magic as the God is not proven. at least the Big Bang assumption is based in Mathematics and Physics. God is based in nothing.

The Universe needs to be based on something and not just physics, it needs also a command. God doesn't need a justification, He's infinite.

Now this is where you are absolutely wrong.

YOU need the universe to be based on something.

YOU need the promise of an afterlife

YOU need the comfort of having a controller

Because YOU don't have the courage to have faith in yourself.

Because YOU can't face the prospect of your mortality
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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11/13/2013 11:53:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
What do you, the religious, say. Do you believe him right away? Tell me what procedure you would follow?

I would dismiss him immediately because he contradicts the real Jesus.

Ethan