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Seeing the Beloved (God)

muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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11/8/2013 8:56:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think that there are many versions of Islam. This is just my opinion based on my observations. I think some forms are very close to pantheism. I think certain versions of Sufism (which can arguably be defined as Islamic Mysticism) are very similar to certain versions of pantheism. Here God is thought of as the love that one experiences, or even as the feeling of suffering that one experiences.
Here is a video. I ham posting the translation below. Here the poet talks about God not as a supernatural creator, but as Earthly experiences.

I saw my beloved in all I saw,
At times revealed, hidden at times.

Been familiar with the issue of faith,
I saw the face of my beloved in all I saw.

At times a possibility, at times imperative,
At times ephemeral, at times eternal.

Inspired by the wish to see Himself,
He made Himself into every form.

He is the one who sees and hears
I saw no one other then Him.

Laughed gleefully through blooming flowers,
Crooned in nightingale's melodious songs.

He took the forms of the candle and the moth,
And annihilated Himself in flames of His own.

At times claiming "I am the Truth",
Witnessed his head raised on the Cross.

O 'Niyaz' He was beyond the bounds of `You' and `Me',
And yet I see Him in every `You' and `Me'.

At times he behaved like unfamiliar,
At timed I found him familiar with the face.

At times he is the emperor in power,
At times seen with a mendicant's begging bowl.

At times, a devout worshipper,
Lord of rakes and drunkards at times.

At times in the beloved's attire,
He was seen throwing up His charms.

At times as a lover like 'Niyaz',
He was seen beating his breast and heart aflame.

What do you think of this kind of 'faith'?
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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11/8/2013 9:22:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/8/2013 8:56:01 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
I think that there are many versions of Islam. This is just my opinion based on my observations. I think some forms are very close to pantheism. I think certain versions of Sufism (which can arguably be defined as Islamic Mysticism) are very similar to certain versions of pantheism. Here God is thought of as the love that one experiences, or even as the feeling of suffering that one experiences.
Here is a video. I ham posting the translation below. Here the poet talks about God not as a supernatural creator, but as Earthly experiences.

I saw my beloved in all I saw,
At times revealed, hidden at times.

Been familiar with the issue of faith,
I saw the face of my beloved in all I saw.

At times a possibility, at times imperative,
At times ephemeral, at times eternal.

Inspired by the wish to see Himself,
He made Himself into every form.

He is the one who sees and hears
I saw no one other then Him.

Laughed gleefully through blooming flowers,
Crooned in nightingale's melodious songs.

He took the forms of the candle and the moth,
And annihilated Himself in flames of His own.

At times claiming "I am the Truth",
Witnessed his head raised on the Cross.

O 'Niyaz' He was beyond the bounds of `You' and `Me',
And yet I see Him in every `You' and `Me'.

At times he behaved like unfamiliar,
At timed I found him familiar with the face.

At times he is the emperor in power,
At times seen with a mendicant's begging bowl.

At times, a devout worshipper,
Lord of rakes and drunkards at times.

At times in the beloved's attire,
He was seen throwing up His charms.

At times as a lover like 'Niyaz',
He was seen beating his breast and heart aflame.



What do you think of this kind of 'faith'?

That's beautiful. I wish all Islam were like that, seeing the sacred in everything. This world would be a much more peaceful place.
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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11/8/2013 9:52:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was never fully convinced that God (as the Quran seemed to describe it) existed. I guess some could argue that I was never a muslim. But I used to pray five times a day, fast in ramadan, even spend 2.5% of my annual savings on charity. I used to pray as though God was listening.

In my late 20s, the problem of evil and suffering, the eternal nature of hell, and Muhammad's violent and misogynistic personality became too much for me to handle. I was tired of making excuses for a God with such a horrible plan and such horrible instructions for his creatures. So finally, I decided to no longer consider myself muslim.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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11/9/2013 12:24:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/8/2013 9:52:22 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
I was never fully convinced that God (as the Quran seemed to describe it) existed. I guess some could argue that I was never a muslim. But I used to pray five times a day, fast in ramadan, even spend 2.5% of my annual savings on charity. I used to pray as though God was listening.

In my late 20s, the problem of evil and suffering, the eternal nature of hell, and Muhammad's violent and misogynistic personality became too much for me to handle. I was tired of making excuses for a God with such a horrible plan and such horrible instructions for his creatures. So finally, I decided to no longer consider myself muslim.

Did you ever consider that God might be just as you think he should be, but others were misrepresenting him and using his authority for their own gain? What if God is some personal connection inside of us that only we can truly touch? Or a creator who simply had the sense to let his creation run its own course, as any good experiment must? I only ask because I often ask myself these same questions.
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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11/9/2013 7:05:39 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/9/2013 12:24:06 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 11/8/2013 9:52:22 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
I was never fully convinced that God (as the Quran seemed to describe it) existed. I guess some could argue that I was never a muslim. But I used to pray five times a day, fast in ramadan, even spend 2.5% of my annual savings on charity. I used to pray as though God was listening.

In my late 20s, the problem of evil and suffering, the eternal nature of hell, and Muhammad's violent and misogynistic personality became too much for me to handle. I was tired of making excuses for a God with such a horrible plan and such horrible instructions for his creatures. So finally, I decided to no longer consider myself muslim.

Did you ever consider that God might be just as you think he should be, but others were misrepresenting him and using his authority for their own gain? What if God is some personal connection inside of us that only we can truly touch? Or a creator who simply had the sense to let his creation run its own course, as any good experiment must? I only ask because I often ask myself these same questions.

I have considered that. But the evidence for holding such a belief is just as good as the evidence for the claim that there is no god.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/9/2013 10:22:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/9/2013 7:05:39 AM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 11/9/2013 12:24:06 AM, Idealist wrote:
At 11/8/2013 9:52:22 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
I was never fully convinced that God (as the Quran seemed to describe it) existed. I guess some could argue that I was never a muslim. But I used to pray five times a day, fast in ramadan, even spend 2.5% of my annual savings on charity. I used to pray as though God was listening.

In my late 20s, the problem of evil and suffering, the eternal nature of hell, and Muhammad's violent and misogynistic personality became too much for me to handle. I was tired of making excuses for a God with such a horrible plan and such horrible instructions for his creatures. So finally, I decided to no longer consider myself muslim.

Did you ever consider that God might be just as you think he should be, but others were misrepresenting him and using his authority for their own gain? What if God is some personal connection inside of us that only we can truly touch? Or a creator who simply had the sense to let his creation run its own course, as any good experiment must? I only ask because I often ask myself these same questions.

I have considered that. But the evidence for holding such a belief is just as good as the evidence for the claim that there is no god.

Man needs evidence but us saints know Him within His mind.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/9/2013 11:07:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/9/2013 10:48:33 AM, muslimnomore wrote:
this guys is comedy gold. someone needs to fashion a SNL character after him.

Psalm 41
5: My enemies say of me in malice: "When will he die, and his name perish?"
6: And when one comes to see me, he utters empty words, while his heart gathers mischief; when he goes out, he tells it abroad.
7: All who hate me whisper together about me; they imagine the worst for me.
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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11/9/2013 11:14:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/9/2013 11:07:58 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/9/2013 10:48:33 AM, muslimnomore wrote:
this guys is comedy gold. someone needs to fashion a SNL character after him.

Psalm 41
5: My enemies say of me in malice: "When will he die, and his name perish?"
6: And when one comes to see me, he utters empty words, while his heart gathers mischief; when he goes out, he tells it abroad.
7: All who hate me whisper together about me; they imagine the worst for me.
woah easy there, i don't want anyone to die.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/9/2013 11:19:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/9/2013 11:14:16 AM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 11/9/2013 11:07:58 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/9/2013 10:48:33 AM, muslimnomore wrote:
this guys is comedy gold. someone needs to fashion a SNL character after him.

Psalm 41
5: My enemies say of me in malice: "When will he die, and his name perish?"
6: And when one comes to see me, he utters empty words, while his heart gathers mischief; when he goes out, he tells it abroad.
7: All who hate me whisper together about me; they imagine the worst for me.
woah easy there, i don't want anyone to die.

Your rejection of who I AM comes from your flesh and this is the reason that ALL flesh must perish from this world. The flesh that I speak through is already dead to this world except to eat, sleep and wear clothes.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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11/9/2013 7:57:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Did you ever consider that God might be just as you think he should be, but others were misrepresenting him and using his authority for their own gain? What if God is some personal connection inside of us that only we can truly touch? Or a creator who simply had the sense to let his creation run its own course, as any good experiment must? I only ask because I often ask myself these same questions.

I have considered that. But the evidence for holding such a belief is just as good as the evidence for the claim that there is no god.

Yes, it is true that it cannot be proved either way, but I've always considered that this is how it should be. We should all be free to draw our own conclusions based upon the experiences and patterns of our lives. I don't think anyone decides what to believe, or even has the ability to. We simply interpret what to us seems most true.