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Define the origin of faith..

Heineken
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11/13/2013 2:59:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm interested in the various doctrinal views on faith.

Is granted to you by God?
Do you create it through a medium (prayer, obedience, etc)?
Do you manifest it out of nothing, through raw will-power?
Is it always there, unrefined, waiting to be cultivated?

What evidence do you have scripturally?

Please provide your denomination and preferred translation also. I'd like to engage on this topic.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
dadman
Posts: 272
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11/13/2013 3:06:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Is granted to you by God? .. I believe so . . . .

for by grace you have been saved through faith .. and that not of yourselves .. it is the gift of God .. Ephesians 2:8

no man comes to the Son unless the Father draw him .. John 6:44

We have no more control over our spiritual birth than our physical birth

it ALL comes from the initiation of God ....... we are chosen
And he (God) gave some apostles .. and some prophets .. and some evangelists .. and some teaching pastors .. for the perfecting of the saints .. for the work of the ministry .. for the edifying of the body of Christ .. till we all come in the unity of the faith .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God .. to a perfect (complete) man .. to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . . Ephesians 4:12 .. http://dadmansabode.com... .. come and learn
Heineken
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11/13/2013 3:07:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/13/2013 3:06:38 PM, dadman wrote:
Is granted to you by God? .. I believe so . . . .

for by grace you have been saved through faith .. and that not of yourselves .. it is the gift of God .. Ephesians 2:8

no man comes to the Son unless the Father draw him .. John 6:44

We have no more control over our spiritual birth than our physical birth

it ALL comes from the initiation of God ....... we are chosen

Calvinism
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
dadman
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11/13/2013 3:13:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Calvinism .

if that is what Calvin believes .. well, I guess so
And he (God) gave some apostles .. and some prophets .. and some evangelists .. and some teaching pastors .. for the perfecting of the saints .. for the work of the ministry .. for the edifying of the body of Christ .. till we all come in the unity of the faith .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God .. to a perfect (complete) man .. to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . . Ephesians 4:12 .. http://dadmansabode.com... .. come and learn
Heineken
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11/13/2013 3:18:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/13/2013 3:13:51 PM, dadman wrote:
Calvinism .

if that is what Calvin believes .. well, I guess so

Yea, the doctrines of faith as laid out by the Synod of Dort. Reformed Theology.
I was a Calvinist before I left the Church.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
dadman
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11/13/2013 3:25:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
well .. I'm just quoting scripture

My salvation does not pivot on Calvin or any other man or church or orgainzation

My salvation pivots on Jesus Christ .. the son of God / who IS God according to the scripture . . . . I have LIFE in his name
And he (God) gave some apostles .. and some prophets .. and some evangelists .. and some teaching pastors .. for the perfecting of the saints .. for the work of the ministry .. for the edifying of the body of Christ .. till we all come in the unity of the faith .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God .. to a perfect (complete) man .. to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . . Ephesians 4:12 .. http://dadmansabode.com... .. come and learn
brett.winstead
Posts: 34
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11/13/2013 3:44:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/13/2013 3:25:29 PM, dadman wrote:
well .. I'm just quoting scripture

My salvation does not pivot on Calvin or any other man or church or orgainzation

My salvation pivots on Jesus Christ .. the son of God / who IS God according to the scripture . . . . I have LIFE in his name

NO, you have a hope that a certain book is true.
Heineken
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11/13/2013 4:00:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/13/2013 3:25:29 PM, dadman wrote:
well .. I'm just quoting scripture

My salvation does not pivot on Calvin or any other man or church or orgainzation

My salvation pivots on Jesus Christ .. the son of God / who IS God according to the scripture . . . . I have LIFE in his name

You have life as a condition of biology. You will continue to grow old and one day you will die and just like Genesis predicted you will return to dust. Your faith in Jesus Christ prevents nothing in this physical world from occurring to you or those around you. In fact all of the things hoped for in Scripture will not be proven to you until the day you die. Therefore nothing that you believe is known to you to be true. You literally have to believe it but you cannot know it.

What evidence do you have in your life that your faith has power?
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
dadman
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11/13/2013 4:07:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
well .. that's why it's called faith

and hope = a confident expectation of the coming reality

does my faith have power ??

All I know is that I put my faith in Jesus 34 years ago and have never had a desire to "try something else" ........ my faith grows each day .. and all the more as I see the final day approaching .. my faith comes by hearing .. hearing the word of God
And he (God) gave some apostles .. and some prophets .. and some evangelists .. and some teaching pastors .. for the perfecting of the saints .. for the work of the ministry .. for the edifying of the body of Christ .. till we all come in the unity of the faith .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God .. to a perfect (complete) man .. to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . . Ephesians 4:12 .. http://dadmansabode.com... .. come and learn
Heineken
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11/13/2013 4:23:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/13/2013 4:07:29 PM, dadman wrote:
well .. that's why it's called faith

and hope = a confident expectation of the coming reality

does my faith have power ??

All I know is that I put my faith in Jesus 34 years ago and have never had a desire to "try something else" ........ my faith grows each day .. and all the more as I see the final day approaching .. my faith comes by hearing .. hearing the word of God

So the evidence for your faith is deeply personal? And it's power is measured in your lack of wanting to try something else? What would you tell an agnostic like myself who also has no desire to try something else? The evidence that my agnosticism is working is that I am not burdened with any particular ideology or a need to know what cannot be known.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
dadman
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11/13/2013 4:28:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
well .. you perfectly describe an unsaved individual .. no need / no desire / whatever will be will be . . . If God has not called you (for whatever reason) .. not a lot I could say .. good luck :)
And he (God) gave some apostles .. and some prophets .. and some evangelists .. and some teaching pastors .. for the perfecting of the saints .. for the work of the ministry .. for the edifying of the body of Christ .. till we all come in the unity of the faith .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God .. to a perfect (complete) man .. to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . . Ephesians 4:12 .. http://dadmansabode.com... .. come and learn
Heineken
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11/13/2013 4:34:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/13/2013 4:28:27 PM, dadman wrote:
well .. you perfectly describe an unsaved individual .. no need / no desire / whatever will be will be . . . If God has not called you (for whatever reason) .. not a lot I could say .. good luck :)

Well, I no longer put any stock into the term "unsaved". The term, to me, is nothing more than an elitist title granted to those who play church and pretend to know the unknown but I thank you for your cooperation in answering my questions.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
YYW
Posts: 36,242
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11/13/2013 10:08:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm going to assume throughout the duration of my post that you were asking about faith in reference to belief in God.

At 11/13/2013 2:59:53 PM, Heineken wrote:
I'm interested in the various doctrinal views on faith.

Is granted to you by God?

If you accept John Calvin's perspective, then faith can be had only if God chose you to have the capacity for it.

Do you create it through a medium (prayer, obedience, etc)?

Faith isn't something that's created so much as it is something that is either had, or not had. To say "create" implies that it is the consequent of human action, which if so, then it cannot be a result of divine action -which is itself to assail the meaning of the concept of faith.

Do you manifest it out of nothing, through raw will-power?

There are some who would argue that faith is the result of the human will towards salvation, which is an idea that implies that faith is the result of something other than God's having mercy on mankind and therefore means that men have control of their eternal destiny. Perhaps it is the case that men must choose for themselves to have faith in God, but they have the capacity for that choice only because God permits it to be so.

Is it always there, unrefined, waiting to be cultivated?

That's not really a question I can meaningfully answer, because as a person it is beyond my capacity to see others' souls. And, in that only God can see men's souls, only God can say whether or not all men have the capacity to choose faith.

What evidence do you have scripturally?

I'm more or less arguing Calvin's perspective, and basing my perspective on what he said.

Please provide your denomination and preferred translation also. I'd like to engage on this topic.

By the fact that I'm arguing what I'm arguing, I don't think there should be any doubt which denomination I belong to.
YYW
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11/13/2013 10:10:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/13/2013 3:44:27 PM, brett.winstead wrote:
At 11/13/2013 3:25:29 PM, dadman wrote:
well .. I'm just quoting scripture

My salvation does not pivot on Calvin or any other man or church or orgainzation

My salvation pivots on Jesus Christ .. the son of God / who IS God according to the scripture . . . . I have LIFE in his name

NO, you have a hope* that a certain book is true.

*Faith, not hope.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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11/13/2013 10:31:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/13/2013 2:59:53 PM, Heineken wrote:
I'm interested in the various doctrinal views on faith.

Is granted to you by God?
Do you create it through a medium (prayer, obedience, etc)?
Do you manifest it out of nothing, through raw will-power?
Is it always there, unrefined, waiting to be cultivated?

What evidence do you have scripturally?

Please provide your denomination and preferred translation also. I'd like to engage on this topic.

"Faith (belief) comes by hearing - and hearing by the word of God" (Rom 10: 17)

One must be careful in saying that faith is "granted" by God. More correctly, faith is "given" by God - but not directly. It is given or produced in the human mind as the Holy Spirit conveys evidence through the written (or spoken, as the case may be) word. Belief is not conveyed by some spooky experience, some better-felt-than-explained feeling, or anything similar. It always and ever is based upon arguments and evidence conveyed within the scriptures. To say that God must act directly in addition to the written word is to (1) implicitly concede that the Bible alone is insufficient and (2) to involve the miraculous in every conversion.

If someone rejects this evidence, I actually have no problem with it - as long as they have thoroughly studied it and weighed it. That is their right. I have but little patience with a person who, after accepting the aims, claims, and directives of the Bible, then undermines its credibility from the inside. For evidence of this, I'd direct one to the posts of MadCornish and Dogknox.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
PGA
Posts: 4,032
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11/14/2013 12:13:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/13/2013 2:59:53 PM, Heineken wrote:
I'm interested in the various doctrinal views on faith.

Is granted to you by God?
Do you create it through a medium (prayer, obedience, etc)?
Do you manifest it out of nothing, through raw will-power?
Is it always there, unrefined, waiting to be cultivated?

What evidence do you have scripturally?

Please provide your denomination and preferred translation also. I'd like to engage on this topic.

Hi Heineken,

Since you say you used to be a believer (a Calvinist) may I ask what is your purpose in engaging? Is it to ridicule our belief in God, or do you have a more noble purpose?

What was your reason for rejecting Christianity?

Either you regard the Bible as what it claims to be, the word of God, and thus your highest authority (sola scriptura), or you place your highest authority in something else. Regarding the Scriptures, I believe they support many avenues of evidence, my favorite being Prophesy. I think when Prophesy is rightly interpreted it becomes hard to refute.

Peter
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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11/14/2013 4:59:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/14/2013 12:13:29 AM, PGA wrote:
At 11/13/2013 2:59:53 PM, Heineken wrote:
I'm interested in the various doctrinal views on faith.

Is granted to you by God?
Do you create it through a medium (prayer, obedience, etc)?
Do you manifest it out of nothing, through raw will-power?
Is it always there, unrefined, waiting to be cultivated?

What evidence do you have scripturally?

Please provide your denomination and preferred translation also. I'd like to engage on this topic.

Hi Heineken,

Since you say you used to be a believer (a Calvinist) may I ask what is your purpose in engaging? Is it to ridicule our belief in God, or do you have a more noble purpose?

By engaging, I mean I want to challenge with an open mind. I have a very solid understanding of doctrinal interpretation, but none on practical application....because for me...faith never happened.

What was your reason for rejecting Christianity?
I spent time inspecting myself for signs of true faith and salvation. I didn't find any.
Unlike most "Christians", I wasn't looking for a way to stand out.
I didn't want to speak in tongues, I had no desire to be gifted with prophecy or teaching ability. I didn't want any of the spiritual gift, because I know myself to be boastful and proud and any true power would probably be abused.

What I wanted instead was assurance. I wanted personal evidence that God was for me and that it's going to be ok.

Didn't happen. I said one last prayer:" If you want me, you know where to find me."


Either you regard the Bible as what it claims to be, the word of God, and thus your highest authority (sola scriptura), or you place your highest authority in something else. Regarding the Scriptures, I believe they support many avenues of evidence, my favorite being Prophesy. I think when Prophesy is rightly interpreted it becomes hard to refute.

Prophecy is relative. It's disproportionate. You would point at the middle eastern geo-political strife around Israel and say:"Evidence!"

I would crack open a history book and point out the extermination of more Jews than ever existed in scripture and say:"Lack of evidence."


Peter
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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11/14/2013 5:23:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/13/2013 10:31:34 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 11/13/2013 2:59:53 PM, Heineken wrote:
I'm interested in the various doctrinal views on faith.

Is granted to you by God?
Do you create it through a medium (prayer, obedience, etc)?
Do you manifest it out of nothing, through raw will-power?
Is it always there, unrefined, waiting to be cultivated?

What evidence do you have scripturally?

Please provide your denomination and preferred translation also. I'd like to engage on this topic.

"Faith (belief) comes by hearing - and hearing by the word of God" (Rom 10: 17)
What about when Paul said that each is assigned a measure of faith? Is that a poor translation in your view?

'Measure' describes a known volume of faith. "This much...no more, no less."
If we cannot have more or less faith, how could faith graduate through hearing?

Shouldn't it be interpreted as:" I heard the word and believed immediately with as much faith as was measured out for me."

One must be careful in saying that faith is "granted" by God. More correctly, faith is "given" by God - but not directly.
Define the semantic difference in application.
If a King grants you an estate....are you not given an estate?

It is given or produced in the human mind as the Holy Spirit conveys evidence through the written (or spoken, as the case may be) word.

I believe this mechanism works, however, I don't attribute super-nature or divine influence to it.
I believed UFO phenomenon also when I was younger. I heard the testimony of the Roswell survivors and studied the news-paper clippings. I even took a vacation to the town and put myself in the context ( a pilgrimage to honor the x-filed. lol.) It was very real for me.

How is my faith in UFOs any different than faith in God?
How is faith in Balam any different than faith in God? What evidence sets them apart in OUR context. (I realize we may find out after death...but what about the here and now?)

Belief is not conveyed by some spooky experience, some better-felt-than-explained feeling, or anything similar. It always and ever is based upon arguments and evidence conveyed within the scriptures. To say that God must act directly in addition to the written word is to (1) implicitly concede that the Bible alone is insufficient and (2) to involve the miraculous in every conversion.

If that's true, the scripture has no more power than a UFO manifesto. Neither produce faith with any evidence of supernatural involvement. Both plead from eyewitness perspective and both have extremely fervent authors who really seem like they believe what they're telling us.

If someone rejects this evidence, I actually have no problem with it - as long as they have thoroughly studied it and weighed it. That is their right. I have but little patience with a person who, after accepting the aims, claims, and directives of the Bible, then undermines its credibility from the inside. For evidence of this, I'd direct one to the posts of MadCornish and Dogknox.

I trust the scripture in it's intention. I don't attribute any malice in it. I believe the authors where convinced of their faith and genuinely cared for the souls of others.

I don't trust their judgement, however, and I'm extremely jealous if their faith experience is real. I begged for it. I literally cried out to God to save me. There was nothing. It was hollow. That's an absolute....a broken promise.
It wasn't a fleeting gesture, by the way.

I've been fascinated with God since I was a kid. I grew up luke-warm Lutheran in Germany. My family sent a tithe check once a year, but never attended service.

My cousin was catholic and I envied him for being able to go to church. I loved the buildings. The atmosphere. The idea that God might live there and (like a red carpet event) maybe he'll show up.
When we moved to America, I had Baptists on my left and Moonies on my right (followers of a Unitarian sect, I believe.) The Baptists lived this hyper-spiritual lifestyle where the devil was in the potato-salad and you better pray before you eat it.
The moonies rejected technology and pursued a clean, uninfected lifestyle. They worked traid jobs, like making honey, candles, working leather. I loved them. Such interesting people.
I wanted to know God so badly, I believed the speeches of both neighbors...uncritically.
In fact, I once believed that I was saved on the basketball court, when my neighbors asked me to accept Christ.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
Heineken
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11/14/2013 5:24:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/13/2013 10:08:43 PM, YYW wrote:
I'm going to assume throughout the duration of my post that you were asking about faith in reference to belief in God.

At 11/13/2013 2:59:53 PM, Heineken wrote:
I'm interested in the various doctrinal views on faith.

Is granted to you by God?

If you accept John Calvin's perspective, then faith can be had only if God chose you to have the capacity for it.

Do you create it through a medium (prayer, obedience, etc)?

Faith isn't something that's created so much as it is something that is either had, or not had. To say "create" implies that it is the consequent of human action, which if so, then it cannot be a result of divine action -which is itself to assail the meaning of the concept of faith.

Do you manifest it out of nothing, through raw will-power?

There are some who would argue that faith is the result of the human will towards salvation, which is an idea that implies that faith is the result of something other than God's having mercy on mankind and therefore means that men have control of their eternal destiny. Perhaps it is the case that men must choose for themselves to have faith in God, but they have the capacity for that choice only because God permits it to be so.

Is it always there, unrefined, waiting to be cultivated?

That's not really a question I can meaningfully answer, because as a person it is beyond my capacity to see others' souls. And, in that only God can see men's souls, only God can say whether or not all men have the capacity to choose faith.

What evidence do you have scripturally?

I'm more or less arguing Calvin's perspective, and basing my perspective on what he said.

Please provide your denomination and preferred translation also. I'd like to engage on this topic.

By the fact that I'm arguing what I'm arguing, I don't think there should be any doubt which denomination I belong to.

I'm very familiar with reformed theology. I actually love the interpretation. It's so raw and honest....but....I felt no power in it.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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11/14/2013 8:10:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/14/2013 4:59:15 AM, Heineken wrote:

Peter

I think you're cool, articulate and thoughtful. Not attributes necessary to be a believer, but hey what can they do. (oh I know deary's some are...............unknot your knickers)
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
makhdoom5
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11/14/2013 9:31:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/13/2013 3:13:51 PM, dadman wrote:
Calvinism .

if that is what Calvin believes .. well, I guess so

Calvinism
nnoun the Protestant theological system of John Calvin (1509"64) and his successors, a development of Lutheranism centring on the doctrine of predestination.

DERIVATIVES
Calvinist noun
Calvinistic adjective
dadman
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11/14/2013 9:41:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
the doctrine of predestination .

yes indeed .. God sees the beginning and the end all in one glance

if you chose Him .. It's because He first chose you

If you came to Jesus it's because .. It's because the Father first drew you

http://dadmansabode.dailyforum.net...

Indeed .. God's children have been chosen for eternity
And he (God) gave some apostles .. and some prophets .. and some evangelists .. and some teaching pastors .. for the perfecting of the saints .. for the work of the ministry .. for the edifying of the body of Christ .. till we all come in the unity of the faith .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God .. to a perfect (complete) man .. to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . . Ephesians 4:12 .. http://dadmansabode.com... .. come and learn
Heineken
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11/14/2013 9:51:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/14/2013 9:41:42 AM, dadman wrote:
the doctrine of predestination .

yes indeed .. God sees the beginning and the end all in one glance

if you chose Him .. It's because He first chose you

If you came to Jesus it's because .. It's because the Father first drew you

http://dadmansabode.dailyforum.net...

Indeed .. God's children have been chosen for eternity

Calvin didn't actually create the doctrines of faith. Calvin sermonized on several of these topics, but reformed theology was properly established by the Synod of Dort.

http://www.theopedia.com...

The great reformers (Luther, Calvin, Tyndale) just paved the way. The doctrines are most commonly associated with Calvin, because Arminius (who was born a generation later) based his free-will theology and counter-reformation on the writings of Calvin. Armenianism is often considered the polar opposite of the doctrines of grace.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
dadman
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11/14/2013 10:01:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I really believe that it's not one or the other .. but rather a combination of the two .. yes, God sees and knows who will decide what from the beginning to the end .. and at the same time .. yes, we do (of our own free will) accept / receive .. or reject / avoid / run from ....... no one is a robot
And he (God) gave some apostles .. and some prophets .. and some evangelists .. and some teaching pastors .. for the perfecting of the saints .. for the work of the ministry .. for the edifying of the body of Christ .. till we all come in the unity of the faith .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God .. to a perfect (complete) man .. to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . . Ephesians 4:12 .. http://dadmansabode.com... .. come and learn
makhdoom5
Posts: 202
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11/14/2013 10:04:00 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/13/2013 2:59:53 PM, Heineken wrote:
I'm interested in the various doctrinal views on faith.

Is granted to you by God?
Do you create it through a medium (prayer, obedience, etc)?
Do you manifest it out of nothing, through raw will-power?
Is it always there, unrefined, waiting to be cultivated?

What evidence do you have scripturally?

Please provide your denomination and preferred translation also. I'd like to engage on this topic.

not translation yet.
but first we should see the demands.
there are demands from both side.
which sides i am saying.
one human other is GOD.
as GOD said he will not come by himself to show himself.
so he decided to make his special human as his representative.
why this all mystery and why this hidden attitude.
see.
as human claims himself that he can make great rules and desing and fashion and way of life so ALLAH or GOD put the test, as human claims he can go on his own and can do things in right way.
he put the test.
and at judgment day he will say, see human i gave u chance to prove ur self.
but see what u did.
i mean those who did wrong and go on un wanted and bad way.
its all about ur test.
he said in
QUran
67:2
he created life and death to see whom among u will do good deed.
u have to do only one thing.
which is believe him and do good deeds.
first step.
what is the role of GOD than.
why we should not only do good deed and leave him coz cant be seen.
the answer is we need him the most.
coz we are not doing good deeds at all.
coz there is one who dont want this which is devil.
as far as human are concerned they are by default good in nature and believing.
devil misguided them from the beginning.
well why devil and who is devil is totally different story.
what devil do again big and long story.
well now about GOD why and where and when we need GOD.
and how he help us.
before that we should declare one thing.
which is.
what relation is recommended to have with GOD.
should we ask him to show him self.
the little answer is.
can u ask obama to cme to visit u or show u.
coz now a days there is media we can see him n TV.
but we dnt have that tech which can see ALLAH.
other wise there are status.
not every body can see everybody or every one.
so its also long topic.
why we should not see him what is wrng t ask about t seem him.
which is so extremely impractical.
little example.
many destroy the idols when annoyed and un answered.
lol get the idea.
so
than if we cant demand to see him than what we should demand or which kind of relation we should have with GOD.
the answer is.
for doing that good and removing or overcoming any hurdle which is in the way of doing good we must ask his help or pray to him.
see.
now the question is what is good than and what is bad.
u can understand from the above there is answer for any question above.
and this dialog type of conversation can go like infinitely.
get the idea and ask question coz its getting so long.
thanks a lot for listening.
makhdoom5
Posts: 202
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11/14/2013 10:17:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
further more.
i get what i ask from him.
simple.
even to believe him any thing required i asked him he gave me.
thanks to my great ALLAH.
and keep in mind i cant express every thing.
every body lives different life and so has different relation with GOD.
find ur relation.
he chooses the lives of peoples initially provide the tools to do good.
but human use their instinct and try to choose the way they like.
not him.
dadman
Posts: 272
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11/14/2013 10:19:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
if we cant demand to see him than what we should demand or which kind of relation we should have with GOD .

Yeah ! .. a little long here

but a short answer .. we can see him (Hebrews 1) .. and the relationship we are to have with God is spelled out all over the pages of the New Covenant .. help yourself to the scripture and the audio files attached .. I think this would be a great plact to start

http://dadmansabode.com...

enjoy
And he (God) gave some apostles .. and some prophets .. and some evangelists .. and some teaching pastors .. for the perfecting of the saints .. for the work of the ministry .. for the edifying of the body of Christ .. till we all come in the unity of the faith .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God .. to a perfect (complete) man .. to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . . Ephesians 4:12 .. http://dadmansabode.com... .. come and learn
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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11/14/2013 10:29:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
not translation yet.
but first we should see the demands.
there are demands from both side.
which sides i am saying.
one human other is GOD.
as GOD said he will not come by himself to show himself.
so he decided to make his special human as his representative.
why this all mystery and why this hidden attitude.
Well, you don't know that this is true. You believe it. If God doesn't reveal himself, then he cant tell you that he sent a prophet. You have to trust the prophet is not a liar.
If God does not reveal himself, you cannot know that God sent anyone.

Why is Muhammad (pbuh) a greater prophet than Moses?

see.
as human claims himself that he can make great rules and desing and fashion and way of life so ALLAH or GOD put the test, as human claims he can go on his own and can do things in right way.
he put the test.

Why does Allah test? Does he not know the answer?

and at judgment day he will say, see human i gave u chance to prove ur self.
but see what u did.

Do you believe Allah alone is good? Or can people also be good, like Allah?

i mean those who did wrong and go on un wanted and bad way.
its all about ur test.
he said in
QUran
67:2
he created life and death to see whom among u will do good deed.

This verse suggests Allah needs a test to understand human behavior. Would God not know these things without a test?

u have to do only one thing.
which is believe him and do good deeds.
first step.

You believe salvation can be earned? You can do good works to go to paradise?

How many good deeds does it take to become a good person?

what is the role of GOD than.
why we should not only do good deed and leave him coz cant be seen.
the answer is we need him the most.

If Allah is real, then I agree. However, I cannot know that Allah is real until I die. I cannot trust his prophet, because Allah has not revealed himself to me to tell me he sent the prophet.
Everything in Islam requires blind faith. Your faith will not become knowledge until you die.

coz we are not doing good deeds at all.
coz there is one who dont want this which is devil.
as far as human are concerned they are by default good in nature and believing.

You speak about Adam?

devil misguided them from the beginning.
The great liar who caused men to sin?
well why devil and who is devil is totally different story.
what devil do again big and long story.

I know the story of the beginning. Christians, Jews and Muslims all have Abraham and his fathers.

well now about GOD why and where and when we need GOD.
and how he help us.
before that we should declare one thing.
which is.
what relation is recommended to have with GOD.
should we ask him to show him self.
the little answer is.
can u ask obama to cme to visit u or show u.

...but I can prove Obama is real. I cannot prove Allah. Allah must prove himself.

coz now a days there is media we can see him n TV.
but we dnt have that tech which can see ALLAH.
other wise there are status.
not every body can see everybody or every one.
so its also long topic.
why we should not see him what is wrng t ask about t seem him.
which is so extremely impractical.
little example.
many destroy the idols when annoyed and un answered.
lol get the idea.

If Allah is real, then idols are poisonous.

so
than if we cant demand to see him than what we should demand or which kind of relation we should have with GOD.
the answer is.
for doing that good and removing or overcoming any hurdle which is in the way of doing good we must ask his help or pray to him.

Why must we pray? I have overcome many things through discipline and hard work, without prayer.

Also, while I attended Church, I also failed many things for which I prayed. Prayer is good, if Allah is real. If Allah is not real, prayer is foolishness.

Since Allah does not reveal himself, you do not know if you are good or a fool.

see.
now the question is what is good than and what is bad.
u can understand from the above there is answer for any question above.
and this dialog type of conversation can go like infinitely.
get the idea and ask question coz its getting so long.
thanks a lot for listening.

I appreciate your answers.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
makhdoom5
Posts: 202
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11/14/2013 11:22:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/14/2013 10:29:59 AM, Heineken wrote:
not translation yet.
but first we should see the demands.
there are demands from both side.
which sides i am saying.
one human other is GOD.
as GOD said he will not come by himself to show himself.
so he decided to make his special human as his representative.
why this all mystery and why this hidden attitude.
Well, you don't know that this is true. You believe it. If God doesn't reveal himself, then he cant tell you that he sent a prophet. You have to trust the prophet is not a liar.
If God does not reveal himself, you cannot know that God sent anyone.

Why is Muhammad (pbuh) a greater prophet than Moses?


see.
as human claims himself that he can make great rules and desing and fashion and way of life so ALLAH or GOD put the test, as human claims he can go on his own and can do things in right way.
he put the test.

Why does Allah test? Does he not know the answer?

and at judgment day he will say, see human i gave u chance to prove ur self.
but see what u did.

Do you believe Allah alone is good? Or can people also be good, like Allah?

i mean those who did wrong and go on un wanted and bad way.
its all about ur test.
he said in
QUran
67:2
he created life and death to see whom among u will do good deed.

This verse suggests Allah needs a test to understand human behavior. Would God not know these things without a test?

u have to do only one thing.
which is believe him and do good deeds.
first step.

You believe salvation can be earned? You can do good works to go to paradise?

How many good deeds does it take to become a good person?

what is the role of GOD than.
why we should not only do good deed and leave him coz cant be seen.
the answer is we need him the most.

If Allah is real, then I agree. However, I cannot know that Allah is real until I die. I cannot trust his prophet, because Allah has not revealed himself to me to tell me he sent the prophet.
Everything in Islam requires blind faith. Your faith will not become knowledge until you die.


coz we are not doing good deeds at all.
coz there is one who dont want this which is devil.
as far as human are concerned they are by default good in nature and believing.

You speak about Adam?

devil misguided them from the beginning.
The great liar who caused men to sin?
well why devil and who is devil is totally different story.
what devil do again big and long story.

I know the story of the beginning. Christians, Jews and Muslims all have Abraham and his fathers.

well now about GOD why and where and when we need GOD.
and how he help us.
before that we should declare one thing.
which is.
what relation is recommended to have with GOD.
should we ask him to show him self.
the little answer is.
can u ask obama to cme to visit u or show u.

...but I can prove Obama is real. I cannot prove Allah. Allah must prove himself.

coz now a days there is media we can see him n TV.
but we dnt have that tech which can see ALLAH.
other wise there are status.
not every body can see everybody or every one.
so its also long topic.
why we should not see him what is wrng t ask about t seem him.
which is so extremely impractical.
little example.
many destroy the idols when annoyed and un answered.
lol get the idea.

If Allah is real, then idols are poisonous.

so
than if we cant demand to see him than what we should demand or which kind of relation we should have with GOD.
the answer is.
for doing that good and removing or overcoming any hurdle which is in the way of doing good we must ask his help or pray to him.

Why must we pray? I have overcome many things through discipline and hard work, without prayer.

Also, while I attended Church, I also failed many things for which I prayed. Prayer is good, if Allah is real. If Allah is not real, prayer is foolishness.

Since Allah does not reveal himself, you do not know if you are good or a fool.

see.
now the question is what is good than and what is bad.
u can understand from the above there is answer for any question above.
and this dialog type of conversation can go like infinitely.
get the idea and ask question coz its getting so long.
thanks a lot for listening.

I appreciate your answers.

well.
there is nothing i cant tell u there is nothing u cant understand.
i think u should see next post.,
i have seen him i have talked with him.
u are skipping first step.
believe him he will guide u.
and show u.
seeing him is not like u can see obama or me.
coz wind u cant see but feel.coz ur eyes has limitation.
u need o upgrade ur eyes.
eyes are made to see things and do good.
which i mention above.
eyes are not capable to see many things.
but those things exist.
finally.
u are suppose to ask what u need., not what u want.
ALLAH siad in quran.
why asking things if i tell u than u will get hurt.
now coz quran is revealing i can tell u.
and many he told.
well.
brother i dont have much time right now.
above the discussion was going into so much interesting phase.
but i have to do other stuff.
makhdoom5
Posts: 202
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11/14/2013 12:02:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/14/2013 10:29:59 AM, Heineken wrote:
not translation yet.
but first we should see the demands.
there are demands from both side.
which sides i am saying.
one human other is GOD.
as GOD said he will not come by himself to show himself.
so he decided to make his special human as his representative.
why this all mystery and why this hidden attitude.
Well, you don't know that this is true. You believe it. If God doesn't reveal himself, then he cant tell you that he sent a prophet. You have to trust the prophet is not a liar.
If God does not reveal himself, you cannot know that God sent anyone.
well who told u, u cant see. he said u need the inner eye which is ur soul power or spiritual power to see GOD.
or to talk to him.
indeed i am admitting its not direct.
same goes obama u cant have direct connection with him.
even he is only president of USA and a human.
but its s much hard to have direct connection with him.
he is real coz i have seen him on TV.
he could be fake but as i know even on TV its truth.
its my believe the images on tv are correct.
but i can deny them if i want u still cant prove them.
some one with plasitic surgery can disguise like him.
balh blah blah its long.

Why is Muhammad (pbuh) a greater prophet than Moses?

question for question is not good idea.
i closed the topics by saying they long.
and gave a theme to u.
but u are opening other topics as well.
there is no great and less among prophets.
ALLAH said in quran.
real Muslim dont make difference among prophets.
only differance is that he saww is last propphet.

see.
as human claims himself that he can make great rules and desing and fashion and way of life so ALLAH or GOD put the test, as human claims he can go on his own and can do things in right way.
he put the test.

Why does Allah test? Does he not know the answer?
this is strange.
u give test in ur exam does examiner dnt know the answer he is most knowing.
coz there is reward which is degree or certificae with which u can have job and earinging and can eat and buy clothes.
same is u will get reward of un ending life in heaven and food and so on.

and at judgment day he will say, see human i gave u chance to prove ur self.
but see what u did.

Do you believe Allah alone is good? Or can people also be good, like Allah?
yeah. he ALLAH admire in quran those who are good.
even some as whole nation ignoring some bad among them.

i mean those who did wrong and go on un wanted and bad way.
its all about ur test.
he said in
QUran
67:2
he created life and death to see whom among u will do good deed.

This verse suggests Allah needs a test to understand human behavior. Would God not know these things without a test?
no he did not and he dont need to understand he understood every thing.
u have to do only one thing.
which is believe him and do good deeds.
first step.

You believe salvation can be earned? You can do good works to go to paradise?

How many good deeds does it take to become a good person?

what is the role of GOD than.
why we should not only do good deed and leave him coz cant be seen.
the answer is we need him the most.

If Allah is real, then I agree. However, I cannot know that Allah is real until I die. I cannot trust his prophet, because Allah has not revealed himself to me to tell me he sent the prophet.
Everything in Islam requires blind faith. Your faith will not become knowledge until you die.


coz we are not doing good deeds at all.
coz there is one who dont want this which is devil.
as far as human are concerned they are by default good in nature and believing.

You speak about Adam?

devil misguided them from the beginning.
The great liar who caused men to sin?
well why devil and who is devil is totally different story.
what devil do again big and long story.

I know the story of the beginning. Christians, Jews and Muslims all have Abraham and his fathers.

well now about GOD why and where and when we need GOD.
and how he help us.
before that we should declare one thing.
which is.
what relation is recommended to have with GOD.
should we ask him to show him self.
the little answer is.
can u ask obama to cme to visit u or show u.

...but I can prove Obama is real. I cannot prove Allah. Allah must prove himself.

coz now a days there is media we can see him n TV.
but we dnt have that tech which can see ALLAH.
other wise there are status.
not every body can see everybody or every one.
so its also long topic.
why we should not see him what is wrng t ask about t seem him.
which is so extremely impractical.
little example.
many destroy the idols when annoyed and un answered.
lol get the idea.

If Allah is real, then idols are poisonous.

so
than if we cant demand to see him than what we should demand or which kind of relation we should have with GOD.
the answer is.
for doing that good and removing or overcoming any hurdle which is in the way of doing good we must ask his help or pray to him.

Why must we pray? I have overcome many things through discipline and hard work, without prayer.

Also, while I attended Church, I also failed many things for which I prayed. Prayer is good, if Allah is real. If Allah is not real, prayer is foolishness.

Since Allah does not reveal himself, you do not know if you are good or a fool.

see.
now the question is what is good than and what is bad.
u can understand from the above there is answer for any question above.
and this dialog type of conversation can go like infinitely.
get the idea and ask question coz its getting so long.
thanks a lot for listening.

I appreciate your answers.