Total Posts:21|Showing Posts:1-21
Jump to topic:

Muslims Don't Support Attacks on Civilians?

HPWKA
Posts: 401
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2013 5:43:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Recently read an article which breaks down approval for attacks on Civilians, by religion/country. Apparently, American non-Muslims and Israeli's are the most likely to approve of attacks on civilians.

Percentage of people who said it is sometimes justifiable to target and kill civilians:

Mormon-Americans 64%
Christian-Americans 58%
Jewish-Americans 52%
Israeli Jews 52%
Palestinians* 51%
No religion/Atheists/Agnostics (U.S.A.) 43%
Nigerians* 43%
Lebanese* 38%
Spanish Muslims 31%
Muslim-Americans 21%
German Muslims 17%
French Muslims 16%
British Muslims 16%
Egyptians* 15%
Indonesians* 13%
Jordanians* 12%
Pakistanis* 5%
Turks* 4%
*refers to Muslims only

Thoughts?

http://www.loonwatch.com...
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
Skynet
Posts: 674
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2013 7:17:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Alright, cool. Who actually carries out more attacks on civilians? No one who takes time to answer polling questions, and not that many American Muslims that live in America. They go over seas and shoot up Kenyan malls if they are inclined to do such things, so when Gallup or Pew calls, no one answers. There's a big difference between saying Hitler should be shot, and actually being able to pull the trigger.

So how accurate is this? How many Mormon terrorists have there been in the last 50 years?
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
Skynet
Posts: 674
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2013 7:18:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 7:17:40 PM, Skynet wrote:
Alright, cool. Who actually carries out more attacks on civilians? No one who takes time to answer polling questions, and not that many American Muslims that live in America. They go over seas and shoot up Kenyan malls if they are inclined to do such things, so when Gallup or Pew calls, no one answers. There's a big difference between saying Hitler should be shot, and actually being able to pull the trigger.

So how accurate is this? How many Mormon terrorists have there been in the last 50 years?

And if you were inclined to kill civilians, why would you admit it? It would put a damper on the whole scheme.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2013 7:37:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 5:43:10 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Recently read an article which breaks down approval for attacks on Civilians, by religion/country. Apparently, American non-Muslims and Israeli's are the most likely to approve of attacks on civilians.

Percentage of people who said it is sometimes justifiable to target and kill civilians:


Well, here is my quasi-stereotypical way to explain why these people are hated. I don't know how accurate it is, and I'm not too serious about it, but what do you think?

Mormon-Americans 64%
Mostly Mitt's fault, I bet.
Christian-Americans 58%
I'm quite surprised here, but maybe it's due to the uprising of super-conservatives showing themselves in politics.
Jewish-Americans 52%
When don't a lot of people hate Jews?
Israeli Jews 52%
Same with above, although even more of a dick move, since this is their homeland and all.
Palestinians* 51%
52% hate Jews, and 51% Palestinians? I could understand a 50-50 split, but this makes it sound like there are 3% of people that hate both.
No religion/Atheists/Agnostics (U.S.A.) 43%
Aww... really? I thought these people were only hated on by the ultra-right.
Nigerians* 43%
Probably because racists point to what word the country's name is very close to.
Lebanese* 38%
Middle-East equals terrorists I guess...
Spanish Muslims 31%
Muslims...
Muslim-Americans 21%
Muslims...
German Muslims 17%
Nazi Muslims...
French Muslims 16%
Muslims...
British Muslims 16%
We still hate the Brits Muslims...
Egyptians* 15%
I don't know.
Indonesians* 13%
I don't know.
Jordanians* 12%
I don't know.
Pakistanis* 5%
They hid Bin Laden?
Turks* 4%
I don't know.
*refers to Muslims only

Thoughts?

http://www.loonwatch.com...
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2013 7:38:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"52% hate Jews, and 51% Palestinians?"
That was supposed to say 'Israelites' instead of 'Jews'.
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
Skynet
Posts: 674
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2013 7:50:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 7:38:39 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
"52% hate Jews, and 51% Palestinians?"
That was supposed to say 'Israelites' instead of 'Jews'.

The poll is not of how many people think those civilian groups need to be attacked, it's what percentage of those mentioned groups think civilians need to be attacked.

Ex: 52% of Jews think it's ok to attack civilians,
51% of Palestinians think it's ok to attack civilians.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2013 7:55:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 7:50:40 PM, Skynet wrote:
At 11/19/2013 7:38:39 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
"52% hate Jews, and 51% Palestinians?"
That was supposed to say 'Israelites' instead of 'Jews'.

The poll is not of how many people think those civilian groups need to be attacked, it's what percentage of those mentioned groups think civilians need to be attacked.

Ex: 52% of Jews think it's ok to attack civilians,
51% of Palestinians think it's ok to attack civilians.

Oh, bugger. I misread it.

Why are the religions so high up there? You're not supposed to kill as a Christian (or Jew)!
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
HPWKA
Posts: 401
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2013 8:02:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Alright, cool. Who actually carries out more attacks on civilians? No one who takes time to answer polling questions, and not that many American Muslims that live in America. They go over seas and shoot up Kenyan malls if they are inclined to do such things, so when Gallup or Pew calls, no one answers. There's a big difference between saying Hitler should be shot, and actually being able to pull the trigger.

So how accurate is this? How many Mormon terrorists have there been in the last 50 years?

If we are being picky, The US and Russia (Christians/Atheists/Agnostics) have carried out the most civilian attacks world wide, in the last 50 years or so.

In the United States, via the latest data I've seen, Muslims rank below Latinos, Left-Wing groups, and Jews, in terrorist attacks.

I suppose one could question the polling methodology, but you'll need a lot more then "nobody answers poll question". For instance, the majority of Americans who kill civilians are overseas (soldiers), so they just as easily could not have been polled.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
HPWKA
Posts: 401
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2013 8:03:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Oh, bugger. I misread it.

No worries, I worded the initial post extremely poorly. I doubt you'll be the only one.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
Skynet
Posts: 674
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2013 8:10:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 7:55:38 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 11/19/2013 7:50:40 PM, Skynet wrote:
At 11/19/2013 7:38:39 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
"52% hate Jews, and 51% Palestinians?"
That was supposed to say 'Israelites' instead of 'Jews'.

The poll is not of how many people think those civilian groups need to be attacked, it's what percentage of those mentioned groups think civilians need to be attacked.

Ex: 52% of Jews think it's ok to attack civilians,
51% of Palestinians think it's ok to attack civilians.

Oh, bugger. I misread it.

Why are the religions so high up there? You're not supposed to kill as a Christian (or Jew)!

Well who knows about the polling methodology. He should provide a direct link to the poll. There are lies, damn lies, and statistics. But if it's true, it might be because American Muslims are afraid of being seriously considered terrorists, while Christians are more loose with their opinion because it's not really a concern of theirs that they'll be hauled off to Guantanamo. This poll also appears to not distinguish killing civilians in combat, as we all did during WWII, and actual non-state terrorist attacks. Also, what are the criteria for being considered "Christian?" Are you Christian if you aren't an Atheist and remember Sunday school when you were 6, or go to Mass on Easter and Christmas? There's no distinction between Catholics and Protestants, and we each consider the other heretics.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
Skynet
Posts: 674
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2013 8:15:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 8:02:04 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Alright, cool. Who actually carries out more attacks on civilians? No one who takes time to answer polling questions, and not that many American Muslims that live in America. They go over seas and shoot up Kenyan malls if they are inclined to do such things, so when Gallup or Pew calls, no one answers. There's a big difference between saying Hitler should be shot, and actually being able to pull the trigger.

So how accurate is this? How many Mormon terrorists have there been in the last 50 years?

If we are being picky, The US and Russia (Christians/Atheists/Agnostics) have carried out the most civilian attacks world wide, in the last 50 years or so.

In the United States, via the latest data I've seen, Muslims rank below Latinos, Left-Wing groups, and Jews, in terrorist attacks.

I suppose one could question the polling methodology, but you'll need a lot more then "nobody answers poll question". For instance, the majority of Americans who kill civilians are overseas (soldiers), so they just as easily could not have been polled.

Could you please post a link to the original poll?
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
themohawkninja
Posts: 816
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2013 8:15:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 8:10:34 PM, Skynet wrote:
There's no distinction between Catholics and Protestants, and we each consider the other heretics.

Uh... I was raised as a Lutheran, and we didn't care about Catholics. I had Catholic friends too.

Wait... are you Irish?
"Morals are simply a limit to man's potential."~Myself

Political correctness is like saying you can't have a steak, because a baby can't eat one ~Unknown
Skynet
Posts: 674
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2013 8:29:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 8:15:05 PM, themohawkninja wrote:
At 11/19/2013 8:10:34 PM, Skynet wrote:
There's no distinction between Catholics and Protestants, and we each consider the other heretics.

Uh... I was raised as a Lutheran, and we didn't care about Catholics. I had Catholic friends too.

Wait... are you Irish?

Northern or Southern?

Jk, I am neither. I am Protestant, non-denominational. I have a few Catholic friends, too. They know I don't agree with their views. We don't burn people at the stake at my church, we just inform them they are wrong and try to reason with them. FYI, Pope Benedict announced that protestants are "outside the fold."

But I digress. My point there was that a lot of non-Christians and Christians don't know there are significant differences between the two religions. Enough that Martin Luther split off, and towns in Germany went to war over the issue.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
HPWKA
Posts: 401
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2013 8:49:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Could you please post a link to the original poll?

I posted the link to the article in the original post.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
Skynet
Posts: 674
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2013 9:04:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 8:49:58 PM, HPWKA wrote:
Could you please post a link to the original poll?

I posted the link to the article in the original post.

The link goes to an article that sources another article on the same site, that mentions some polls, and other articles, but I never found the actual poll originally cited.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
HPWKA
Posts: 401
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/19/2013 9:19:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The link goes to an article that sources another article on the same site, that mentions some polls, and other articles, but I never found the actual poll originally cited.

Follow the links LOL.

The article uses a conglomeration of studies, not one all-encompassing poll.

For instance, the numbers containing American Muslims, Jews, Christians, Mormons, and Atheists came from one poll (which you can get too by following the links, or a simple Google search).
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
HPWKA
Posts: 401
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/20/2013 4:45:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Oh, bugger. I misread it.

Understandable, seeing as how I worded the original post terribly.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/20/2013 7:40:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 7:17:40 PM, Skynet wrote:
Alright, cool. Who actually carries out more attacks on civilians?

The Government of the USA.
Skynet
Posts: 674
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/20/2013 8:25:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/20/2013 7:40:53 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 11/19/2013 7:17:40 PM, Skynet wrote:
Alright, cool. Who actually carries out more attacks on civilians?

The Government of the USA.

Try the Chinese government. Largest massacre of the 20th Century: The Great Leap Forward. How many political prisoners do they harvest for organs?
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.
Skynet
Posts: 674
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
11/20/2013 9:34:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/19/2013 9:19:29 PM, HPWKA wrote:
The link goes to an article that sources another article on the same site, that mentions some polls, and other articles, but I never found the actual poll originally cited.

Follow the links LOL.

The article uses a conglomeration of studies, not one all-encompassing poll.

For instance, the numbers containing American Muslims, Jews, Christians, Mormons, and Atheists came from one poll (which you can get too by following the links, or a simple Google search).

I believe this is the most pertinent of the cited polls:
http://www.gallup.com...

I can't be above changing my tune after reading the data myself.
The data appears to be legitimate.

I still hold that the biggest probable reason American Muslims are least likely to condone attacks is that they are most afraid of being accused of being terrorists. My guess for Protestants and Catholics being higher is that they feel no qualms about saying such things when becoming a terrorist is such a distant reality to most of them. Being investigated as a terrorist is not on my top 10 worry list. If I had family who were bank robbers, I'd be more careful talking about robbing banks, whether I intended to, or not.

The poll had two distinct questions: Military attacks on civilians, and individuals or small groups carrying out attacks. Every group disagreed more with the second.

Another factor is probable to be feelings of embattlement. I already kind of covered this with the Muslims maybe being afraid of being labeled. Catholics and Christians are more likely to feel under attack by Islam because of real historical attacks, verbal, cultural, and physical abuse going back to the time of Muhammad. (Persecution abroad, church burnings, beheadings, imprisonment, kidnapping, conquest of Iberia, 9/11, etc.) Atheists/Agnostics are more likely to be liberals, and therefore gravitate toward liberal media who oppose conservative hawks by downplaying the stated import of the War on Terror. They may want to distinguish themselves from what they may see as the modern American Crusades. After all, if differences between religion are really silly, why wouldn't many Muslims overseas be able to see that there's no reason to Jihad against Atheists, because they may see themselves as having no religious/cultural animus toward the Muslim culture. (Muslims in Afghanistan, and Soviet occupiers saw it differently, back in the 70-80's.)

Now I'll go out on a limb, since I know something about Mormons, but don't know any personally. The majority of Mormons probably live out West, and are more isolationist historically than Christians or Catholics. They have more of an Earthly Empire view of the Kingdom of God. Joseph Smith sought the promised land in several states, and an extermination order by the Missouri gov't was issued when they tried to take over the government of that state. They then fled to Utah, and for years harassed and killed non-Mormon settlers moving out West. That phase ended, but the in the early 20th Century (I think I got the date right), the States and US started a severe crackdown on polygamy when it was still common. They are still not that accepted as a group today. With the history of embattlement and seeking a combined Church-State, it seems more logical that Mormons would be more accepting of a "by any means necessary" approach to warfare.

I still think that violent Muslims would prefer to be on the front lines, so they would be less likely to move here or stay for long in the first place. With the exception of the DC snipers, Boston Marathon bombers, the Ft. Hood Massacre-er, 9/11 attackers, '93 WTC bombers, underwear bomber.
If your position is that polled Christians are not just talking about attacks, but carrying them out, please provide examples. If you want to bring up civilian deaths in war at the hands of military's, wake up and smell the history. That's what always happens. The view that civilians are exempt from combat is a modern delusion brought about by no major wars inflicting major civilian loss on US mainland since the Civil War. Not saying it's good, war is bad. It's an inevitability that history bears out.
One perk to being a dad is you get to watch cartoons again without explaining yourself.