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'jesus was not crucified' and other matters

guen
Posts: 33
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11/20/2013 11:35:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Allah has not let jews to crucify jesus:
İn many verses of bible, jesus says that he has come to complete Torah. And he said his apostles to follow and obey the holy law in old testament. İn jewish laws, the thing which is hanged on a tree, on sabbath day, is considered damned and filthy. That is why when jews crucify someone, they buried them and they considered the place that they bury them as damned. This is why jews wanted to crucify jesus. Because they thought; if we succesfully crucify jesus, we will prove that jesus is not the messiah. Because messiah is a title. İt means ""the king of the jews"". So how can the king of the jews be considered as damned and filthy according to jewish laws"they thought like that. And this is also the reason why Allah did not let them do it.
Surat an nisa from the quran 156-158:
And [We cursed them] for their disbelief and their saying against Mary a great slander,
And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.
We muslims think that the who was crucified was either an angel which is send in the image of jesus, or Judas iscariot which was given the shape of jesus by Allah"
guen
Posts: 33
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11/20/2013 11:37:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The concept of original sin:
İn islam, there is no concept of original sin. We believe that every baby that come to this World is pure. And every child is also free of sin until he/she comes to the age that he/she can understand the distinction of what is true and what is false. We also believe that no one inherit an other person"s sin. Every one is responsible for himself.
Lets see what quran says about adam and eve:
Surat ar araf: 19-25:
And "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal."
And he swore [by Allah ] to them, "Indeed, I am to you from among the sincere advisors."
So he made them fall, through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten together over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And their Lord called to them, "Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you that Satan is to you a clear enemy?"
They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers."
[ Allah ] said, "Descend, being to one another enemies. And for you on the earth is a place of settlement and enjoyment for a time."
He said, "Therein you will live, and therein you will die, and from it you will be brought forth."
As we can see, allah is not actually angry with them for eating the fruit which was prohibited fort hem. Actually he says that, earth is a place of settlement and provision for a time. And one day he will call every person on earth to himself again(by death)
İn truth, sending the humans to earth was God"s intention from the start.
Surat al baqara from quran 30:
And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
And He taught Adam the names - all of them. Then He showed them to the angels and said, "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful."
They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise."
He said, "O Adam, inform them of their names." And when he had informed them of their names, He said, "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth? And I know what you reveal and what you have concealed."
And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.
And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in [ease and] abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
But Satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them from that [condition] in which they had been. And We said, "Go down, [all of you], as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time."
Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.
We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.
As we can see in above verses, god wanted to create a being who has freedom of choice, unlike the angels. And he wanted to send them to earth from the very start. When adam and eve ate the forbidden fruit, that was actually a sign that they are ready to choose between true and false. İt was not the most terrible sin in human history, like christians believe. As quran says, it was just a ""slip"". We also believe that prophets are free of sin. Every possible sin of them are forgiven by Allah. Adam is also a prophet, so he is also free of sin, like all prophets.. As we can see the above verses of quran, allah comforted adam that guidance will come to them. Adam also receive some words from allah when he asked for forgiveness. These were probably words of comfort and mercy given from Allah to Adam and Eve. We can see that allah is not angry with them, like christians believe.
guen
Posts: 33
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11/20/2013 11:38:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Terminology of ""father and son"" in bible:
İn many verses of bible, words of "" father"" and ""son"" are used as ""master"" and ""servant"".In greek language the word "" Pais"" has two meanings: son and servant. Here are some examples from bible:
Luke 3:38: (this verse is about the ascendants of jesus, at the end of the list): 38the [son] of Enos, the [son] of Seth, the [son] of Adam, the [son] of God.
Romans 8:14: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Matthew 5:9: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of God.
Psalm 2:7: I will tell of the decree:Jehovah said unto me, Thou art my son; This day have I begotten thee.
John 8:41: Ye do the works of your father. They said unto him, We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God. 42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [Even] because ye cannot hear my word. 44Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
Jeremiah 31:9: They shall come with weeping; and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by rivers of waters, in a straight way wherein they shall not stumble; for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my first-born.
John 3 16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
The Word begotten also used in ""Hebrews"" like that:
Hebrews 11:17: By faith Abraham, being tried, offered up Isaac: yea, he that had gladly received the promises was offering up his only begotten [son]
As we can see, isaac is called abraham"s only begotten son. But other son of Abraham; ishmael; was older than isaac, so isaac cant be abraham"s only son. That means that begotten doesnt necessarily mean ""only son"" in the terminology of bible. Also, we saw that on many verses of bible, god calls many people as ""his son"" that means servant of him, not literal meaning.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/20/2013 12:32:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/20/2013 11:38:29 AM, guen wrote:
Terminology of ""father and son"" in bible:
İn many verses of bible, words of "" father"" and ""son"" are used as ""master"" and ""servant"".In greek language the word "" Pais"" has two meanings: son and servant. Here are some examples from bible:
Luke 3:38: (this verse is about the ascendants of jesus, at the end of the list): 38the [son] of Enos, the [son] of Seth, the [son] of Adam, the [son] of God.
Romans 8:14: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Matthew 5:9: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of God.
Psalm 2:7: I will tell of the decree:Jehovah said unto me, Thou art my son; This day have I begotten thee.
John 8:41: Ye do the works of your father. They said unto him, We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God. 42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? [Even] because ye cannot hear my word. 44Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
Jeremiah 31:9: They shall come with weeping; and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by rivers of waters, in a straight way wherein they shall not stumble; for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my first-born.
John 3 16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.
The Word begotten also used in ""Hebrews"" like that:
Hebrews 11:17: By faith Abraham, being tried, offered up Isaac: yea, he that had gladly received the promises was offering up his only begotten [son]
As we can see, isaac is called abraham"s only begotten son. But other son of Abraham; ishmael; was older than isaac, so isaac cant be abraham"s only son. That means that begotten doesnt necessarily mean ""only son"" in the terminology of bible. Also, we saw that on many verses of bible, god calls many people as ""his son"" that means servant of him, not literal meaning.

If you listen to my testimonies from the invisible Kingdom of God instead of your own interpretations of the scriptures, you will learn all about the past, present and future, but that's only if God chose you to listen.
dadman
Posts: 272
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11/20/2013 12:49:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is what happens when insane asylums are granted internet access .. bad move

http://dadmansabode.com...
And he (God) gave some apostles .. and some prophets .. and some evangelists .. and some teaching pastors .. for the perfecting of the saints .. for the work of the ministry .. for the edifying of the body of Christ .. till we all come in the unity of the faith .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God .. to a perfect (complete) man .. to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . . Ephesians 4:12 .. http://dadmansabode.com... .. come and learn
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/20/2013 1:07:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/20/2013 12:49:01 PM, dadman wrote:
This is what happens when insane asylums are granted internet access .. bad move

http://dadmansabode.com...

It's interesting to hear what unbelievers say about a true saint who speaks for God. Without knowing the saint at all, they persecute them with lies about what they think a saint is. All they have to do is listen to a saint's testimony of our true Creator and realize that he knows a lot more about the prophecies than anyone on this planet. But unbelievers weren't chosen by our Creator to listen to our gospel, which is the voice of God where He can be directly heard by believers.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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11/20/2013 5:26:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/20/2013 11:35:05 AM, guen wrote:
Allah has not let jews to crucify jesus:
İn many verses of bible, jesus says that he has come to complete Torah. And he said his apostles to follow and obey the holy law in old testament. İn jewish laws, the thing which is hanged on a tree, on sabbath day, is considered damned and filthy. That is why when jews crucify someone, they buried them and they considered the place that they bury them as damned. This is why jews wanted to crucify jesus. Because they thought; if we succesfully crucify jesus, we will prove that jesus is not the messiah. Because messiah is a title. İt means ""the king of the jews"". So how can the king of the jews be considered as damned and filthy according to jewish laws"they thought like that. And this is also the reason why Allah did not let them do it.
Surat an nisa from the quran 156-158:
And [We cursed them] for their disbelief and their saying against Mary a great slander,
And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.
We muslims think that the who was crucified was either an angel which is send in the image of jesus, or Judas iscariot which was given the shape of jesus by Allah"

I am sorry, but that is completely wrong, the Messiah was prophesied to die in that way.

The Law was fulfilled in his death, and now is not a burden on those who follow Christ and worship his father. Christ took it back to basics because,as he pointed out, if you love Jehovah with your whole heat soul and mind, as well as loving other humans as one loves oneself, then you have already kept the whole of the Law, in principle, if not in detail. This fits in with this statement to the Pharisees that his father wants "mercy, not sacrifice".

Still, it is hardly surprising that Muslims do not understand that since you are being misled by a very powerful and deceptive spirit creature.

Allah is not the true God, Christ's heavenly God and Father, Jehovah, is.

Islam is the religion of the descendants of Ishmael, not of Isaac. Ishmael was the illegitimate son of Abraham, by his slave girl Hagar, and not the legitimate son by Abraham's wife. The illegitimate son has no inheritance from his father.

Therefore the people of the true God were Israelites, not the Ishmaelites.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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11/20/2013 6:25:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
MCB is deceiving you & as usual MCB is in error!!

What About Jesus?

Mashiach: The Messiah
Mashiach (in Hebrew)

Jews do not believe that Jesus was the mashiach. Assuming that he existed, and assuming that the Christian scriptures are accurate in describing him (both matters that are debatable), he simply did not fulfill the mission of the mashiach as it is described in the biblical passages cited above. Jesus did not do any of the things that the scriptures said the messiah would do.

On the contrary, another Jew born about a century later came far closer to fulfilling the messianic ideal than Jesus did. His name was Shimeon ben Kosiba, known as Bar Kokhba (son of a star), and he was a charismatic, brilliant, but brutal warlord. Rabbi Akiba, one of the greatest scholars in Jewish history, believed that Bar Kokhba was the mashiach. Bar Kokhba fought a war against the Roman Empire, catching the Tenth Legion by surprise and retaking Jerusalem. He resumed sacrifices at the site of the Temple and made plans to rebuild the Temple. He established a provisional government and began to issue coins in its name. This is what the Jewish people were looking for in a mashiach; Jesus clearly does not fit into this mold. Ultimately, however, the Roman Empire crushed his revolt and killed Bar Kokhba. After his death, all acknowledged that he was not the mashiach.

Throughout Jewish history, there have been many people who have claimed to be the mashiach, or whose followers have claimed that they were the mashiach: Shimeon Bar Kokhba, Shabbatai Tzvi, Jesus, and many others too numerous to name. Leo Rosten reports some very entertaining accounts under the heading False Messiahs in his book, The Joys of Yiddish. But all of these people died without fulfilling the mission of the mashiach; therefore, none of them were the mashiach. The mashiach and the Olam Ha-Ba lie in the future, not in the past. (Source: http://www.jewfaq.org...)
airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
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11/20/2013 6:58:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/20/2013 6:25:23 PM, Composer wrote:
MCB is deceiving you & as usual MCB is in error!!

What About Jesus?

Mashiach: The Messiah
Mashiach (in Hebrew)


The following is an accurate post regarding the Jewish perspective on the Mashiach. Just one thing I'd point out is that mashiach doesn't translate into "Messiah" as it's simply it's English transliteration (and while this may be obvious it's important because "mashiach" doesn't always mean "The messiah"). It translates into "anointed". The Messiah in Jewish tradition will be anointed as a king and lead to very specific circumstances in the world. Obviously Jesus wasn't "anointed" as a king, nor were the circumstances fulfilled for the post-messianic era and therefore Jews reject Jesus as the messiah, just like the dozens of others who died failing to fulfill the requirements. To reconcile this Christianity invokes the "second coming" concept, though I'm not certain what source Christians claim as a source for this idea in the OT.

Otherwise the following is a really interesting post and other failed messiahs like Bar Kokhba and Shabbatai Tzvi are fascinating studies in the desire for a Jewish savior at a time of great persecution and suffering for the Jews. Jesus too was followed in an early Jewish movement as someone who could potentially bring upon the messianic era, though once he died it concluded being a traditional Jewish movement and eventually evolved into the entirely different religion it is today.

Jews do not believe that Jesus was the mashiach. Assuming that he existed, and assuming that the Christian scriptures are accurate in describing him (both matters that are debatable), he simply did not fulfill the mission of the mashiach as it is described in the biblical passages cited above. Jesus did not do any of the things that the scriptures said the messiah would do.

On the contrary, another Jew born about a century later came far closer to fulfilling the messianic ideal than Jesus did. His name was Shimeon ben Kosiba, known as Bar Kokhba (son of a star), and he was a charismatic, brilliant, but brutal warlord. Rabbi Akiba, one of the greatest scholars in Jewish history, believed that Bar Kokhba was the mashiach. Bar Kokhba fought a war against the Roman Empire, catching the Tenth Legion by surprise and retaking Jerusalem. He resumed sacrifices at the site of the Temple and made plans to rebuild the Temple. He established a provisional government and began to issue coins in its name. This is what the Jewish people were looking for in a mashiach; Jesus clearly does not fit into this mold. Ultimately, however, the Roman Empire crushed his revolt and killed Bar Kokhba. After his death, all acknowledged that he was not the mashiach.

Throughout Jewish history, there have been many people who have claimed to be the mashiach, or whose followers have claimed that they were the mashiach: Shimeon Bar Kokhba, Shabbatai Tzvi, Jesus, and many others too numerous to name. Leo Rosten reports some very entertaining accounts under the heading False Messiahs in his book, The Joys of Yiddish. But all of these people died without fulfilling the mission of the mashiach; therefore, none of them were the mashiach. The mashiach and the Olam Ha-Ba lie in the future, not in the past. (Source: http://www.jewfaq.org...)
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Composer
Posts: 5,858
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11/20/2013 7:13:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/20/2013 1:07:15 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/20/2013 12:49:01 PM, dadman wrote:
This is what happens when insane asylums are granted internet access .. bad move

http://dadmansabode.com...

It's interesting to hear what unbelievers say about a true saint who speaks for God.
Well after speaking (writing) to Pastor Tracy at the church Food-Hall where you get your free hand-outs, without going in to details (confidentiality) as I suggested to you since, this god you claim to speak on behalf of couldn't even provide you with the correct details regarding Tracy & her Church; but instead you have been preaching lies!

Proof enough for me & probably others? that this god in your head, is an incompetent buffoon that tells you to preach / proclaim such lies!

Your successful ideological butt-kicker & vindicated mentor, moi!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/20/2013 10:16:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/20/2013 7:13:10 PM, Composer wrote:
At 11/20/2013 1:07:15 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/20/2013 12:49:01 PM, dadman wrote:
This is what happens when insane asylums are granted internet access .. bad move

http://dadmansabode.com...

It's interesting to hear what unbelievers say about a true saint who speaks for God.
Well after speaking (writing) to Pastor Tracy at the church Food-Hall where you get your free hand-outs, without going in to details (confidentiality) as I suggested to you since, this god you claim to speak on behalf of couldn't even provide you with the correct details regarding Tracy & her Church; but instead you have been preaching lies!

Proof enough for me & probably others? that this god in your head, is an incompetent buffoon that tells you to preach / proclaim such lies!

Your successful ideological butt-kicker & vindicated mentor, moi!

When you get done lying, your body will be dead. Have a nice day in the mind of our Creator.
Somecrap
Posts: 119
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11/20/2013 10:35:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/20/2013 5:26:20 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 11/20/2013 11:35:05 AM, guen wrote:
Allah has not let jews to crucify jesus:
İn many verses of bible, jesus says that he has come to complete Torah. And he said his apostles to follow and obey the holy law in old testament. İn jewish laws, the thing which is hanged on a tree, on sabbath day, is considered damned and filthy. That is why when jews crucify someone, they buried them and they considered the place that they bury them as damned. This is why jews wanted to crucify jesus. Because they thought; if we succesfully crucify jesus, we will prove that jesus is not the messiah. Because messiah is a title. İt means ""the king of the jews"". So how can the king of the jews be considered as damned and filthy according to jewish laws"they thought like that. And this is also the reason why Allah did not let them do it.
Surat an nisa from the quran 156-158:
And [We cursed them] for their disbelief and their saying against Mary a great slander,
And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.
We muslims think that the who was crucified was either an angel which is send in the image of jesus, or Judas iscariot which was given the shape of jesus by Allah"

I am sorry, but that is completely wrong, the Messiah was prophesied to die in that way.

The Law was fulfilled in his death, and now is not a burden on those who follow Christ and worship his father. Christ took it back to basics because,as he pointed out, if you love Jehovah with your whole heat soul and mind, as well as loving other humans as one loves oneself, then you have already kept the whole of the Law, in principle, if not in detail. This fits in with this statement to the Pharisees that his father wants "mercy, not sacrifice".

Still, it is hardly surprising that Muslims do not understand that since you are being misled by a very powerful and deceptive spirit creature.

Allah is not the true God, Christ's heavenly God and Father, Jehovah, is.

Islam is the religion of the descendants of Ishmael, not of Isaac. Ishmael was the illegitimate son of Abraham, by his slave girl Hagar, and not the legitimate son by Abraham's wife. The illegitimate son has no inheritance from his father.

Therefore the people of the true God were Israelites, not the Ishmaelites.

I have Question for u... where did the disciples meet jesus first in Galili or Jeroslem?
If u eat u excrete it cant be helped
Gracealone
Posts: 32
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11/22/2013 11:55:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/20/2013 11:35:05 AM, guen wrote:
Allah has not let jews to crucify jesus:
İn many verses of bible, jesus says that he has come to complete Torah. And he said his apostles to follow and obey the holy law in old testament. İn jewish laws, the thing which is hanged on a tree, on sabbath day, is considered damned and filthy. That is why when jews crucify someone, they buried them and they considered the place that they bury them as damned. This is why jews wanted to crucify jesus. Because they thought; if we succesfully crucify jesus, we will prove that jesus is not the messiah. Because messiah is a title. İt means ""the king of the jews"". So how can the king of the jews be considered as damned and filthy according to jewish laws"they thought like that. And this is also the reason why Allah did not let them do it.
Surat an nisa from the quran 156-158:
And [We cursed them] for their disbelief and their saying against Mary a great slander,
And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.
We muslims think that the who was crucified was either an angel which is send in the image of jesus, or Judas iscariot which was given the shape of jesus by Allah"

I believe the Surah you referenced was incorrectly quoted. The surah does not read "but [another] was made to resemble him to them. It reads "but it only appeared to them." The actual interpretation of the surah is a confirmation of the resurrection of Jesus. It is true that they did not kill him or crucify him (so as to put an end to him ultimately,) as your surah says "they killed him not FOR CERTAIN." This is evident, that, whereas the Jews thought Jesus was done with, on the contrary Jesus rose from the dead (which they thought he was dead forever), which is where your surah comes in and says "Rather, Allah raised him to Himself", indicating God resurrected Jesus, and he [Jesus], rose from the grave.

One of your surahs says that Isa will die and rise again.
Surah 19:15
""So peace is on me the day I was born, the day thatI DIE, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!

This goes in harmony with the Gospels, where it is said by Jesus.
Matthew 17:23
"and they will kill him, and HE WILL BE RAISED on the third day"

Acts 2:32
"This Jesus God (whom you call Allah) raised up, and of that we are all witnesses"

When it says "He will be raised," that indicates that God is the one who will raise him up. Just as your Holy Book says.

So in conclusion, the Quran actually has Isa declaring that he will die and he will resurrect from the grave.

Surah 5:47
"Let the People of the Gospel judge of what God has revealed therein"
guen
Posts: 33
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6/6/2014 12:31:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2013 11:37:11 AM, guen wrote:
The concept of original sin:
İn islam, there is no concept of original sin. We believe that every baby that come to this World is pure. And every child is also free of sin until he/she comes to the age that he/she can understand the distinction of what is true and what is false. We also believe that no one inherit an other person"s sin. Every one is responsible for himself.
Lets see what quran says about adam and eve:
Surat ar araf: 19-25:
And "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal."
And he swore [by Allah ] to them, "Indeed, I am to you from among the sincere advisors."
So he made them fall, through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten together over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And their Lord called to them, "Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you that Satan is to you a clear enemy?"
They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers."
[ Allah ] said, "Descend, being to one another enemies. And for you on the earth is a place of settlement and enjoyment for a time."
He said, "Therein you will live, and therein you will die, and from it you will be brought forth."
As we can see, allah is not actually angry with them for eating the fruit which was prohibited fort hem. Actually he says that, earth is a place of settlement and provision for a time. And one day he will call every person on earth to himself again(by death)
İn truth, sending the humans to earth was God"s intention from the start.
Surat al baqara from quran 30:
And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
And He taught Adam the names - all of them. Then He showed them to the angels and said, "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful."
They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise."
He said, "O Adam, inform them of their names." And when he had informed them of their names, He said, "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth? And I know what you reveal and what you have concealed."
And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.
And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in [ease and] abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
But Satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them from that [condition] in which they had been. And We said, "Go down, [all of you], as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time."
Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.
We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.
As we can see in above verses, god wanted to create a being who has freedom of choice, unlike the angels. And he wanted to send them to earth from the very start. When adam and eve ate the forbidden fruit, that was actually a sign that they are ready to choose between true and false. İt was not the most terrible sin in human history, like christians believe. As quran says, it was just a ""slip"". We also believe that prophets are free of sin. Every possible sin of them are forgiven by Allah. Adam is also a prophet, so he is also free of sin, like all prophets.. As we can see the above verses of quran, allah comforted adam that guidance will come to them. Adam also receive some words from allah when he asked for forgiveness. These were probably words of comfort and mercy given from Allah to Adam and Eve. We can see that allah is not angry with them, like christians believe.

The parts in these post of mine about that god is not angry with adam and eve are just an interpretation of a man i saw on a youtube video. It is not definite knowledge from quran so it should not be evaluated like a definite knowledge. What we know for sure is that Adam and Eve were forgiven when they were still alive on earth.
neutral
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6/6/2014 12:32:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2013 11:35:05 AM, guen wrote:
Allah has not let jews to crucify jesus:
İn many verses of bible, jesus says that he has come to complete Torah. And he said his apostles to follow and obey the holy law in old testament. İn jewish laws, the thing which is hanged on a tree, on sabbath day, is considered damned and filthy. That is why when jews crucify someone, they buried them and they considered the place that they bury them as damned. This is why jews wanted to crucify jesus. Because they thought; if we succesfully crucify jesus, we will prove that jesus is not the messiah. Because messiah is a title. İt means ""the king of the jews"". So how can the king of the jews be considered as damned and filthy according to jewish laws"they thought like that. And this is also the reason why Allah did not let them do it.
Surat an nisa from the quran 156-158:
And [We cursed them] for their disbelief and their saying against Mary a great slander,
And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.
We muslims think that the who was crucified was either an angel which is send in the image of jesus, or Judas iscariot which was given the shape of jesus by Allah"

I guess all the Apostles were lying then?
guen
Posts: 33
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6/6/2014 1:06:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 12:31:25 PM, guen wrote:
At 11/20/2013 11:37:11 AM, guen wrote:
The concept of original sin:
İn islam, there is no concept of original sin. We believe that every baby that come to this World is pure. And every child is also free of sin until he/she comes to the age that he/she can understand the distinction of what is true and what is false. We also believe that no one inherit an other person"s sin. Every one is responsible for himself.
Lets see what quran says about adam and eve:
Surat ar araf: 19-25:
And "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal."
And he swore [by Allah ] to them, "Indeed, I am to you from among the sincere advisors."
So he made them fall, through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten together over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And their Lord called to them, "Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you that Satan is to you a clear enemy?"
They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers."
[ Allah ] said, "Descend, being to one another enemies. And for you on the earth is a place of settlement and enjoyment for a time."
He said, "Therein you will live, and therein you will die, and from it you will be brought forth."
As we can see, allah is not actually angry with them for eating the fruit which was prohibited fort hem. Actually he says that, earth is a place of settlement and provision for a time. And one day he will call every person on earth to himself again(by death)
İn truth, sending the humans to earth was God"s intention from the start.
Surat al baqara from quran 30:
And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
And He taught Adam the names - all of them. Then He showed them to the angels and said, "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful."
They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise."
He said, "O Adam, inform them of their names." And when he had informed them of their names, He said, "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth? And I know what you reveal and what you have concealed."
And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.
And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in [ease and] abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
But Satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them from that [condition] in which they had been. And We said, "Go down, [all of you], as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time."
Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.
We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.
As we can see in above verses, god wanted to create a being who has freedom of choice, unlike the angels. And he wanted to send them to earth from the very start. When adam and eve ate the forbidden fruit, that was actually a sign that they are ready to choose between true and false. İt was not the most terrible sin in human history, like christians believe. As quran says, it was just a ""slip"". We also believe that prophets are free of sin. Every possible sin of them are forgiven by Allah. Adam is also a prophet, so he is also free of sin, like all prophets.. As we can see the above verses of quran, allah comforted adam that guidance will come to them. Adam also receive some words from allah when he asked for forgiveness. These were probably words of comfort and mercy given from Allah to Adam and Eve. We can see that allah is not angry with them, like christians believe.

The parts in these post of mine about that god is not angry with adam and eve are just an interpretation of a man i saw on a youtube video. It is not definite knowledge from quran so it should not be evaluated like a definite knowledge. What we know for sure is that Adam and Eve were forgiven when they were still alive on earth.

Also, according to islam faith, prophets do not commit sin.
Mineva
Posts: 336
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6/6/2014 1:23:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 1:06:02 PM, guen wrote:
Also, according to islam faith, prophets do not commit sin.

Hi,

Why you think that ? Why according to Islam prophets dont commit sins ?
skinker
Posts: 345
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6/6/2014 3:12:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/20/2013 11:35:05 AM, guen wrote:
Allah has not let jews to crucify jesus:
İn many verses of bible, jesus says that he has come to complete Torah. And he said his apostles to follow and obey the holy law in old testament. İn jewish laws, the thing which is hanged on a tree, on sabbath day, is considered damned and filthy. That is why when jews crucify someone, they buried them and they considered the place that they bury them as damned. This is why jews wanted to crucify jesus. Because they thought; if we succesfully crucify jesus, we will prove that jesus is not the messiah. Because messiah is a title. İt means ""the king of the jews"". So how can the king of the jews be considered as damned and filthy according to jewish laws"they thought like that. And this is also the reason why Allah did not let them do it.
Surat an nisa from the quran 156-158:
And [We cursed them] for their disbelief and their saying against Mary a great slander,
And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.
We muslims think that the who was crucified was either an angel which is send in the image of jesus, or Judas iscariot which was given the shape of jesus by Allah"

Please, Muhammad found some 3rd century Gnostic Gospels in one of his caravan raids and this is where the idea of a sustitute Jesus comes from. He found another Infancy Gospel of Jesus too and other Gnostic texts which explains views on Jesus Christ as someone who would deliberately fool the people. Perhaps like himself..
skinker
Posts: 345
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6/6/2014 3:20:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
All of Muhammad's ideas about everything can be dismissed as 7th century Arab sheik narcissism that thought the world revolved around the Man with the Plan and the Army to back it up. Without the Army, there would be no Islam as no one in their right minds would ever elect to have a bunch of mean men controlling society. Knives and swords would be essential items in Muslim lands and they are. Now they have guns and bombs as Muhammad's military mindset created a religion of perpetual warfare for Muslim believers.

The reason Muhammad's ideas can be dismissed is that he, like Paul, based his whole religion upon the Jewish myths of origin that never occurred, e.g. Moses and the Exodus, David and Solomon, all the major characters and events of the Old Testament. Archeological science proves this to be historical truth. You can't derive spiritual authority from lies and fables taken as history no matter how many guns you have pointed to your head. Muhammad's Islam is toast and rides only now on Muslim ignorance of their lost cause of peddling 7th century Arab social ideas in our 21st century world where they only cause violence to modern human rights protection.
guen
Posts: 33
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6/7/2014 8:05:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 1:06:02 PM, guen wrote:
At 6/6/2014 12:31:25 PM, guen wrote:
At 11/20/2013 11:37:11 AM, guen wrote:
The concept of original sin:
İn islam, there is no concept of original sin. We believe that every baby that come to this World is pure. And every child is also free of sin until he/she comes to the age that he/she can understand the distinction of what is true and what is false. We also believe that no one inherit an other person"s sin. Every one is responsible for himself.
Lets see what quran says about adam and eve:
Surat ar araf: 19-25:
And "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal."
And he swore [by Allah ] to them, "Indeed, I am to you from among the sincere advisors."
So he made them fall, through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten together over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And their Lord called to them, "Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you that Satan is to you a clear enemy?"
They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers."
[ Allah ] said, "Descend, being to one another enemies. And for you on the earth is a place of settlement and enjoyment for a time."
He said, "Therein you will live, and therein you will die, and from it you will be brought forth."
As we can see, allah is not actually angry with them for eating the fruit which was prohibited fort hem. Actually he says that, earth is a place of settlement and provision for a time. And one day he will call every person on earth to himself again(by death)
İn truth, sending the humans to earth was God"s intention from the start.
Surat al baqara from quran 30:
And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
And He taught Adam the names - all of them. Then He showed them to the angels and said, "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful."
They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise."
He said, "O Adam, inform them of their names." And when he had informed them of their names, He said, "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth? And I know what you reveal and what you have concealed."
And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.
And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in [ease and] abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
But Satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them from that [condition] in which they had been. And We said, "Go down, [all of you], as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time."
Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.
We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.
As we can see in above verses, god wanted to create a being who has freedom of choice, unlike the angels. And he wanted to send them to earth from the very start. When adam and eve ate the forbidden fruit, that was actually a sign that they are ready to choose between true and false. İt was not the most terrible sin in human history, like christians believe. As quran says, it was just a ""slip"". We also believe that prophets are free of sin. Every possible sin of them are forgiven by Allah. Adam is also a prophet, so he is also free of sin, like all prophets.. As we can see the above verses of quran, allah comforted adam that guidance will come to them. Adam also receive some words from allah when he asked for forgiveness. These were probably words of comfort and mercy given from Allah to Adam and Eve. We can see that allah is not angry with them, like christians believe.

The parts in these post of mine about that god is not angry with adam and eve are just an interpretation of a man i saw on a youtube video. It is not definite knowledge from quran so it should not be evaluated like a definite knowledge. What we know for sure is that Adam and Eve were forgiven when they were still alive on earth.

Also, according to islam faith, prophets do not commit sin.

İ also want add that: in the earlier post of mine, there is a statement that says all the possible sins of prophets are forgiven by Allah. There is a verse in quran that says past and future sins of Muhammad (pbuh) is forgiven. But that verse is only about Muhammad(pbuh), not all prophets in general. Also, like i said earlier, prophets do not commit sin according to islamic faith. Some scholars said that this verse is about the potential to commit sin that exists in human nature,but of course Allah knows better...
skinker
Posts: 345
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6/7/2014 9:05:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Only Jewish prophets are spiritually authorized to give Jewish religious information. When Gentiles try to do it, starting with "Paul" probably the creation of Church Fathers, certainly with Muhammad, they get it wrong. Salvation is of the Jews, not Gentiles. Israeli Jewish archeologists have corrected the Jewish historical line that went out of whack with the deliberate mythologies created by priests of Judah with Hebrew religious ideas and Israelite experiences in Egypt. God sent Jesus Christ in to correct the spiritual errors of Judah. Paul recreated the spiritual errors by retying Christianity back to Judaism as did Muhammad. Now Judaism is headless as the Torah/Tanakh is exposed by science as a bunch of fabrications without historical foundation, e.g. Moses and the Exodus story.

So when you're ready for real spiritual guidance and not content to let a 7th century dead man do your religious heavy lifting for you, look into Celestial Torah Christianity, the world's oldest religion.
guen
Posts: 33
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6/12/2014 12:26:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/7/2014 8:05:58 AM, guen wrote:
At 6/6/2014 1:06:02 PM, guen wrote:
At 6/6/2014 12:31:25 PM, guen wrote:
At 11/20/2013 11:37:11 AM, guen wrote:
The concept of original sin:
İn islam, there is no concept of original sin. We believe that every baby that come to this World is pure. And every child is also free of sin until he/she comes to the age that he/she can understand the distinction of what is true and what is false. We also believe that no one inherit an other person"s sin. Every one is responsible for himself.
Lets see what quran says about adam and eve:
Surat ar araf: 19-25:
And "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal."
And he swore [by Allah ] to them, "Indeed, I am to you from among the sincere advisors."
So he made them fall, through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten together over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And their Lord called to them, "Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you that Satan is to you a clear enemy?"
They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers."
[ Allah ] said, "Descend, being to one another enemies. And for you on the earth is a place of settlement and enjoyment for a time."
He said, "Therein you will live, and therein you will die, and from it you will be brought forth."
As we can see, allah is not actually angry with them for eating the fruit which was prohibited fort hem. Actually he says that, earth is a place of settlement and provision for a time. And one day he will call every person on earth to himself again(by death)
İn truth, sending the humans to earth was God"s intention from the start.
Surat al baqara from quran 30:
And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
And He taught Adam the names - all of them. Then He showed them to the angels and said, "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful."
They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise."
He said, "O Adam, inform them of their names." And when he had informed them of their names, He said, "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth? And I know what you reveal and what you have concealed."
And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.
And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in [ease and] abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
But Satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them from that [condition] in which they had been. And We said, "Go down, [all of you], as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time."
Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.
We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.
As we can see in above verses, god wanted to create a being who has freedom of choice, unlike the angels. And he wanted to send them to earth from the very start. When adam and eve ate the forbidden fruit, that was actually a sign that they are ready to choose between true and false. İt was not the most terrible sin in human history, like christians believe. As quran says, it was just a ""slip"". We also believe that prophets are free of sin. Every possible sin of them are forgiven by Allah. Adam is also a prophet, so he is also free of sin, like all prophets.. As we can see the above verses of quran, allah comforted adam that guidance will come to them. Adam also receive some words from allah when he asked for forgiveness. These were probably words of comfort and mercy given from Allah to Adam and Eve. We can see that allah is not angry with them, like christians believe.

The parts in these post of mine about that god is not angry with adam and eve are just an interpretation of a man i saw on a youtube video. It is not definite knowledge from quran so it should not be evaluated like a definite knowledge. What we know for sure is that Adam and Eve were forgiven when they were still alive on earth.

Also, according to islam faith, prophets do not commit sin.

İ also want add that: in the earlier post of mine, there is a statement that says all the possible sins of prophets are forgiven by Allah. There is a verse in quran that says past and future sins of Muhammad (pbuh) is forgiven. But that verse is only about Muhammad(pbuh), not all prophets in general. Also, like i said earlier, prophets do not commit sin according to islamic faith. Some scholars said that this verse is about the potential to commit sin that exists in human nature,but of course Allah knows better...

The website i used as a source said that; there is a verse that says Muhammad(pbuh) to ask forgiveness from Allah. Scholars said that this verse is about the potential to commit sin that exist in humans. According to islam faith, prophets do not commit sin. There is also a verse that says the past and future sins of Muhammad(pbuh) is forgiven. but this verse is only about prophey muhammad(pbuh) , not the prophets in general.
skinker
Posts: 345
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6/12/2014 1:53:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Does not matter what Muhammad or anyone thinking Muhammad has any authority to tell anyone anything. Until you Muslims face historical reality, the historical facts about the writers of the Torah/Tanakh tales that Israeli archeologists have uncovered are only tales, not true historical facts at all, you are merely passing wind. There is NO spiritual authority derived from Myths. Period. None. All the Jewish stories about Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, all Fictions. Never happened. So don't bother us with these silly Quran ideas that are based on fictions of us Jews. If God didn't tell Muhammad he was taking Jewish fictions and making them into idols then there's no reason to continue on believing Muhammad's fictions or ideas. Except blind faith and fear of a dead man's revenge.

Bravery for Muslims now is the ability to quit a bad religion even under threat of death as Muhammad made sure fear was the foundation of his Islam.
guen
Posts: 33
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6/28/2014 7:40:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 12:26:54 PM, guen wrote:
At 6/7/2014 8:05:58 AM, guen wrote:
At 6/6/2014 1:06:02 PM, guen wrote:
At 6/6/2014 12:31:25 PM, guen wrote:
At 11/20/2013 11:37:11 AM, guen wrote:
The concept of original sin:
İn islam, there is no concept of original sin. We believe that every baby that come to this World is pure. And every child is also free of sin until he/she comes to the age that he/she can understand the distinction of what is true and what is false. We also believe that no one inherit an other person"s sin. Every one is responsible for himself.
Lets see what quran says about adam and eve:
Surat ar araf: 19-25:
And "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat from wherever you will but do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal."
And he swore [by Allah ] to them, "Indeed, I am to you from among the sincere advisors."
So he made them fall, through deception. And when they tasted of the tree, their private parts became apparent to them, and they began to fasten together over themselves from the leaves of Paradise. And their Lord called to them, "Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you that Satan is to you a clear enemy?"
They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers."
[ Allah ] said, "Descend, being to one another enemies. And for you on the earth is a place of settlement and enjoyment for a time."
He said, "Therein you will live, and therein you will die, and from it you will be brought forth."
As we can see, allah is not actually angry with them for eating the fruit which was prohibited fort hem. Actually he says that, earth is a place of settlement and provision for a time. And one day he will call every person on earth to himself again(by death)
İn truth, sending the humans to earth was God"s intention from the start.
Surat al baqara from quran 30:
And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
And He taught Adam the names - all of them. Then He showed them to the angels and said, "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful."
They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise."
He said, "O Adam, inform them of their names." And when he had informed them of their names, He said, "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth? And I know what you reveal and what you have concealed."
And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.
And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in [ease and] abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
But Satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them from that [condition] in which they had been. And We said, "Go down, [all of you], as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time."
Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.
We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.
As we can see in above verses, god wanted to create a being who has freedom of choice, unlike the angels. And he wanted to send them to earth from the very start. When adam and eve ate the forbidden fruit, that was actually a sign that they are ready to choose between true and false. İt was not the most terrible sin in human history, like christians believe. As quran says, it was just a ""slip"". We also believe that prophets are free of sin. Every possible sin of them are forgiven by Allah. Adam is also a prophet, so he is also free of sin, like all prophets.. As we can see the above verses of quran, allah comforted adam that guidance will come to them. Adam also receive some words from allah when he asked for forgiveness. These were probably words of comfort and mercy given from Allah to Adam and Eve. We can see that allah is not angry with them, like christians believe.

The parts in these post of mine about that god is not angry with adam and eve are just an interpretation of a man i saw on a youtube video. It is not definite knowledge from quran so it should not be evaluated like a definite knowledge. What we know for sure is that Adam and Eve were forgiven when they were still alive on earth.

Also, according to islam faith, prophets do not commit sin.

İ also want add that: in the earlier post of mine, there is a statement that says all the possible sins of prophets are forgiven by Allah. There is a verse in quran that says past and future sins of Muhammad (pbuh) is forgiven. But that verse is only about Muhammad(pbuh), not all prophets in general. Also, like i said earlier, prophets do not commit sin according to islamic faith. Some scholars said that this verse is about the potential to commit sin that exists in human nature,but of course Allah knows better...

The website i used as a source said that; there is a verse that says Muhammad(pbuh) to ask forgiveness from Allah. Scholars said that this verse is about the potential to commit sin that exist in humans. According to islam faith, prophets do not commit sin. There is also a verse that says the past and future sins of Muhammad(pbuh) is forgiven. but this verse is only about prophey muhammad(pbuh) , not the prophets in general.

Also, i want to re-state my previous post in a more correct way: There is a verse in quran that says past and future sins of Muhammad(pbuh) are forgiven. According to islam faith, prophets do not commit sin.Scholars said that this verse is about the potential to commit sin does not come to act becuse of the 'ısmet' property that exist in prophets. Some scholars said that this verse is about the potential to commit sin that exist in human nature, but Allah knows better. There is also a verse that says to prophet muhammad to ask forgiveness from Allah. Some schoalars said that the one who must ask forgiveness is his ummah(muslims), that the ummah is symbolized on muhammad(pbuh) person, in this verse, but again allah knows better...
skinker
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6/28/2014 8:51:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Allah forgot this:

The Bible Unearthed by Israel Finkelstein and Neil Silberman. You Tube the video.

Allah is limited to Muhammad's mind and Muhammad didn't know archeological history of the peoples around him whose legends he accepted as given truths. This means there is no more authority in Muhammad's Quran than in any other book in the library. The library is God's real "Book" and the sooner Muslims figure that out the sooner they will grow up intellectually and stop relying on 7th century ideas to do their thinking for them. It's so easy to point to the Book instead of standing on your own merits as yourself. This is why I'm not starting any new organized religion because God wants all believers to grow up and meld science of the Universe with spiritual knowledge of Creation. That cannot be done as long as believers are believing in fictions and fables instead of seeing them as vehicles for spiritual instruction that is here and now, not there and then. Proof of spiritual authority? Through this warner God has given Muslims and the world the True Sword of Jihad, Sign of the Messiah in our times.