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Why do you believe in Christ

Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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11/23/2013 3:10:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
As a Christian do you believe out of faith or facts and why?

If you are a Christian

(1) Is it more logical to believe out of faith and use the bible as a metaphor.

(2) Believe everything and try to explain away the historical inaccuracies littered all throughout the bible.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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11/23/2013 4:21:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Christian: Yo dog, I experience the holy ghost and stuff, so I know Jesus personally nahm sayin' ? He my homie G. I don't need to evidence doggy, just believe me yo, I know this sh*t.
JayLewis
Posts: 41
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11/24/2013 7:57:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Unfortunately, people think there is a false dichotomy between faith and rational belief. Who says that faith and fact have to oppose one another? I don't have a philosophical answer for you, but I do have a biblical answer.
The book of Hebrews says that "faith is the assurance of what is hoped for, the proof of what is not seen" (11:1). This is referring to the ancient Israelites who placed their hope in a Messiah who was to come. This hope was fulfilled in the birth of Jesus the Christ, who would be the one to save humanity from their sins.

Regarding the historical inaccuracies of the Bible.....well, there are none. This bible is an essentially historical book, a collection of documents written over thousands of years by multiple authors. It discusses the history that was occurring at the time: wars, ancient empires, genealogies, architecture; all these testify to the historical accuracy of the bible. One example is that of King David. David is a major figure of the bible, yet until the 1990's archaeologists had never uncovered any artifact referring to David's reign. Because of this many skeptics and liberal scholars began to doubt the bible's veracity. Yet, soon after this an Aramean inscription was found at Tel Dan referring to a "House of David" and soon after this massive structures were uncovered in Jerusalem believed to be dated to the time of King David. http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...

Good question, I hope I could help out.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/24/2013 9:56:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/23/2013 3:10:49 PM, Mikal wrote:
As a Christian do you believe out of faith or facts and why?

If you are a Christian

(1) Is it more logical to believe out of faith and use the bible as a metaphor.

(2) Believe everything and try to explain away the historical inaccuracies littered all throughout the bible.

Belief and faith are not the same. The faith that us saints and prophets have is knowing our invisible Creator who comes into our mind to begin His work in us. Once faith is established, we don't need to believe that our Creator exists. We know He exists.

Belief is something that God gives to believers so that they will listen to the gospel we saints preach and believe some of it. It's impossible for believers to know what us saints know because they are still under the Old Covenant "veil" that is removed from us saints.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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11/24/2013 10:14:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/24/2013 9:56:49 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/23/2013 3:10:49 PM, Mikal wrote:
As a Christian do you believe out of faith or facts and why?

If you are a Christian

(1) Is it more logical to believe out of faith and use the bible as a metaphor.

(2) Believe everything and try to explain away the historical inaccuracies littered all throughout the bible.

Belief and faith are not the same. The faith that us saints and prophets have is knowing our invisible Creator who comes into our mind to begin His work in us. Once faith is established, we don't need to believe that our Creator exists. We know He exists.

Belief is something that God gives to believers so that they will listen to the gospel we saints preach and believe some of it. It's impossible for believers to know what us saints know because they are still under the Old Covenant "veil" that is removed from us saints.
Your qualifications have been unambiguously proven to show you are a -

Liar!

So you may well wish to call yourself a saint, however your full title should you continue to do so is ' A LYING self acclaimed saint preaching proven lies & BS! '.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/24/2013 10:18:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/24/2013 10:14:13 PM, Composer wrote:
At 11/24/2013 9:56:49 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/23/2013 3:10:49 PM, Mikal wrote:
As a Christian do you believe out of faith or facts and why?

If you are a Christian

(1) Is it more logical to believe out of faith and use the bible as a metaphor.

(2) Believe everything and try to explain away the historical inaccuracies littered all throughout the bible.

Belief and faith are not the same. The faith that us saints and prophets have is knowing our invisible Creator who comes into our mind to begin His work in us. Once faith is established, we don't need to believe that our Creator exists. We know He exists.

Belief is something that God gives to believers so that they will listen to the gospel we saints preach and believe some of it. It's impossible for believers to know what us saints know because they are still under the Old Covenant "veil" that is removed from us saints.
Your qualifications have been unambiguously proven to show you are a -

Liar!

So you may well wish to call yourself a saint, however your full title should you continue to do so is ' A LYING self acclaimed saint preaching proven lies & BS! '.


Unbelieving sinners like you always call us saints liars. That's because you have no knowledge to understand what we speak about.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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11/25/2013 2:01:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/24/2013 10:18:10 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/24/2013 10:14:13 PM, Composer wrote:
At 11/24/2013 9:56:49 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/23/2013 3:10:49 PM, Mikal wrote:
As a Christian do you believe out of faith or facts and why?

If you are a Christian

(1) Is it more logical to believe out of faith and use the bible as a metaphor.

(2) Believe everything and try to explain away the historical inaccuracies littered all throughout the bible.

Belief and faith are not the same. The faith that us saints and prophets have is knowing our invisible Creator who comes into our mind to begin His work in us. Once faith is established, we don't need to believe that our Creator exists. We know He exists.

Belief is something that God gives to believers so that they will listen to the gospel we saints preach and believe some of it. It's impossible for believers to know what us saints know because they are still under the Old Covenant "veil" that is removed from us saints.
Your qualifications have been unambiguously proven to show you are a -

Liar!

So you may well wish to call yourself a saint, however your full title should you continue to do so is ' A LYING self acclaimed saint preaching proven lies & BS! '.


Unbelieving sinners like you always call us saints liars. That's because you have no knowledge to understand what we speak about.
Pastor Tracy confirmed in writing you lied on the Internet about her sexual orientation!

You are a disgrace to your imaginary friend jebus!

bornofgod the proven liar!

Patron saint of lies & BS you are!
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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11/25/2013 5:52:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/24/2013 7:57:58 PM, JayLewis wrote:
Unfortunately, people think there is a false dichotomy between faith and rational belief. Who says that faith and fact have to oppose one another? I don't have a philosophical answer for you, but I do have a biblical answer.
The book of Hebrews says that "faith is the assurance of what is hoped for, the proof of what is not seen" (11:1). This is referring to the ancient Israelites who placed their hope in a Messiah who was to come. This hope was fulfilled in the birth of Jesus the Christ, who would be the one to save humanity from their sins.

Regarding the historical inaccuracies of the Bible.....well, there are none. This bible is an essentially historical book, a collection of documents written over thousands of years by multiple authors. It discusses the history that was occurring at the time: wars, ancient empires, genealogies, architecture; all these testify to the historical accuracy of the bible. One example is that of King David. David is a major figure of the bible, yet until the 1990's archaeologists had never uncovered any artifact referring to David's reign. Because of this many skeptics and liberal scholars began to doubt the bible's veracity. Yet, soon after this an Aramean inscription was found at Tel Dan referring to a "House of David" and soon after this massive structures were uncovered in Jerusalem believed to be dated to the time of King David. http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...

Good question, I hope I could help out.

Herod died 8 years before Christ was born. The census of all of Rome was only a regional one of Judea. It also did not require you to go to your homeland, only to the nearest town or urban center or wherever they were counting closest to your residence.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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11/25/2013 5:53:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Oh yeah, and the census was after Christ was supposedly born. How did Herod get there? Or how was the Census involved at all? It's one or the other.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
JayLewis
Posts: 41
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11/25/2013 6:26:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/25/2013 5:52:40 PM, Lordgrae wrote:

Herod died 8 years before Christ was born. The census of all of Rome was only a regional one of Judea. It also did not require you to go to your homeland, only to the nearest town or urban center or wherever they were counting closest to your residence.

Most scholars agree that Jesus was born around the year 6 B.C. and that the reign of Herod the Great ended around 4 B.C. While there were several "Herods" who ruled over Judea before Jerusalem fell in A.D. 70, the biblical record is consistent with history which shows that Herod the Great was ruler over Judea at the time of Jesus' birth.
Regarding your thoughts on the Roman census taken at Jesus's birth, I'd like to point you to Luke 2:2 - "This was the first registration before (Greek, proto) Quirinius was governor of Syria". Luke, as an early church historian (he was also the author of Acts), used a common dating tool that many historians still use today. He gives the reader a date (the reign of Quirinius) to place a certain event (Roman census) within its historical setting. Therefore, an early Christian who read the gospel of Jesus according to Luke, probably would remember the reign of Quirinius and therefore be able to place the census in its correct historical context. Historians still use this method today, for instance if someone wanted to write about the building of the Boulder (Hoover) Dam they would probably write about the Great Depression that was also occurring during that same time.
Does that make sense? I tried to make my argument clear and cogent. There are some great resources on this stuff that's freely available online.
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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11/26/2013 12:34:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/25/2013 6:26:43 PM, JayLewis wrote:
At 11/25/2013 5:52:40 PM, Lordgrae wrote:

Herod died 8 years before Christ was born. The census of all of Rome was only a regional one of Judea. It also did not require you to go to your homeland, only to the nearest town or urban center or wherever they were counting closest to your residence.

Most scholars agree that Jesus was born around the year 6 B.C. and that the reign of Herod the Great ended around 4 B.C. While there were several "Herods" who ruled over Judea before Jerusalem fell in A.D. 70, the biblical record is consistent with history which shows that Herod the Great was ruler over Judea at the time of Jesus' birth.
Regarding your thoughts on the Roman census taken at Jesus's birth, I'd like to point you to Luke 2:2 - "This was the first registration before (Greek, proto) Quirinius was governor of Syria". Luke, as an early church historian (he was also the author of Acts), used a common dating tool that many historians still use today. He gives the reader a date (the reign of Quirinius) to place a certain event (Roman census) within its historical setting. Therefore, an early Christian who read the gospel of Jesus according to Luke, probably would remember the reign of Quirinius and therefore be able to place the census in its correct historical context. Historians still use this method today, for instance if someone wanted to write about the building of the Boulder (Hoover) Dam they would probably write about the Great Depression that was also occurring during that same time.
Does that make sense? I tried to make my argument clear and cogent. There are some great resources on this stuff that's freely available online.

Shortly after Herod the Great, his son was exiled. The Herods were out of power for a while.

Unlike in the story, the census did not require you to go back to your homeland. It required you to go to the nearest place they were ounting. This would mean that the story of Joseph going to Bethlehem (possibly wrong. The city name is off he top of my head) would be false.

There are multiple versions of the story of Jesus, and each of them gets more and more magical as time goes on. Just look up the stories. Their timelines are all off, and none of them seem to be in full agreement.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
ethang5
Posts: 4,115
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1/21/2014 12:31:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/23/2013 4:21:50 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:

Christian: Yo dog, I experience the holy ghost and stuff, so I know Jesus personally nahm sayin' ? He my homie G. I don't need to evidence doggy, just believe me yo, I know this sh*t.

I bet you're the type who often has to say, "No, some of my best friends are black!"

Or did you let Composer post under your name for a while?
biomystic
Posts: 606
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1/21/2014 4:30:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Jesus what loves me, this I know, 'cause the Celestial Torah tells me so, ya say what I'm knowing?
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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1/22/2014 1:51:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 11/23/2013 3:10:49 PM, Mikal wrote:
As a Christian do you believe out of faith or facts and why?

If you are a Christian

(1) Is it more logical to believe out of faith and use the bible as a metaphor.

(2) Believe everything and try to explain away the historical inaccuracies littered all throughout the bible.

A number of things that nearly cause me to believe in Christ, Is the sheer fact of the power of forgiveness, This alone. Can be very significant in our journey as human beings. The very idea of having a guilty conscious that can only be put right through either forgetfulness or outright forgiveness from the person I have wronged, Makes all the difference of existing in a living hell or as a guilt free human which can be akin to heavenly bliss once being redeemed. Causes me to wonder if Jesus Christ actually has a magnificent power if he is truly who he say's he is. As all of us humans are by our very nature, devious at times to say the least. I believe we are all guilty of something immoral. thus forgiveness is necessary.

Another thing that strikes me is the sheer illogicality of the Bible, yet it touches and moves people in a way that causes people to come together when they actually follow the teachings of Christ. Obviously this is no argument, as the same can be said of other religions, and then we are stuck with the dilemma of one being true and the other false. Only I do not subscribe to such a view. Rather I believe God has spoken to different people at different times according to the time and location He spoke the message conveyed had to be either understood or accepted according to the time and location of those people.
I have a better answer for this but can't seem to explain it exactly how I would like to right now.

Also another thing about Jesus, is that he sacrificed himself for the glory of God. This is the ultimate expression of love, especially in the way Jesus did it. Along with his moral teachings. I find him fascinating. Regardless of the illogicality's.

and my point is that almost everything is absurd once you dig deep enough.

But what remains after all the logic and all the deep thinking is a little thing called love for each other, and also for God. Which are the two most charged commandments of Jesus.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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1/22/2014 2:12:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/22/2014 1:51:52 PM, johnlubba wrote:
At 11/23/2013 3:10:49 PM, Mikal wrote:
As a Christian do you believe out of faith or facts and why?

If you are a Christian

(1) Is it more logical to believe out of faith and use the bible as a metaphor.

(2) Believe everything and try to explain away the historical inaccuracies littered all throughout the bible.

A number of things that nearly cause me to believe in Christ, Is the sheer fact of the power of forgiveness, This alone. Can be very significant in our journey as human beings. The very idea of having a guilty conscious that can only be put right through either forgetfulness or outright forgiveness from the person I have wronged, Makes all the difference of existing in a living hell or as a guilt free human which can be akin to heavenly bliss once being redeemed. Causes me to wonder if Jesus Christ actually has a magnificent power if he is truly who he say's he is. As all of us humans are by our very nature, devious at times to say the least. I believe we are all guilty of something immoral. thus forgiveness is necessary.

Another thing that strikes me is the sheer illogicality of the Bible, yet it touches and moves people in a way that causes people to come together when they actually follow the teachings of Christ. Obviously this is no argument, as the same can be said of other religions, and then we are stuck with the dilemma of one being true and the other false. Only I do not subscribe to such a view. Rather I believe God has spoken to different people at different times according to the time and location He spoke the message conveyed had to be either understood or accepted according to the time and location of those people.
I have a better answer for this but can't seem to explain it exactly how I would like to right now.

Also another thing about Jesus, is that he sacrificed himself for the glory of God. This is the ultimate expression of love, especially in the way Jesus did it. Along with his moral teachings. I find him fascinating. Regardless of the illogicality's.

and my point is that almost everything is absurd once you dig deep enough.

But what remains after all the logic and all the deep thinking is a little thing called love for each other, and also for God. Which are the two most charged commandments of Jesus.

If only the other saints could be here in this forum to tell you how all the antichrists stole our words and used them for their own benefit. There are many antichrists in this forum who love this world and despise the Truth. They have no love of God in them because they have no idea what God's love means.