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Why Reward Humankind?

Kassandra
Posts: 47
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11/28/2013 11:08:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
If I were God, and therefore all-powerful and all-knowing, I doubt I would be interested in the ridiculous words and behaviours of hominids. For example, in roughly 3500 years, there have been roughly 230 years of peace. And who does each side of every absurd conflict invoke? Why, God, of course! How can God be on both sides of every "just" war? And, if God wa s on the side of the losing side, how do the hominids explain that? That "their" god was puny? No, there is always some other rationalization. Logic dictates that there are no "just" wars. Just the greedy, silly, violent, wilfully ignorant, club-swinging, knuckle-dragging hominids! If I were God, I would still be waiting for the hominids to evolve to a point where we might all have something intelligent to say to one another.
Kassandra
dadman
Posts: 272
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11/28/2013 11:17:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
you might do good to grab the larger picture .. yes indeed .. mankind is headed for a sad state of affairs .. our sins are truly running their course

PSALM 2 Why do the heathen (Nations) rage .. and the people imagine a vain thing .. The kings of the earth set themselves .. and the rulers take counsel together .. against the Lord .. and against his anointed .. saying . . . Let us break their bands asunder .. and cast away their cords from us . . . He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision . . . Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath .. and vex them in his sore displeasure ..

Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion

http://dadmansabode.com...
And he (God) gave some apostles .. and some prophets .. and some evangelists .. and some teaching pastors .. for the perfecting of the saints .. for the work of the ministry .. for the edifying of the body of Christ .. till we all come in the unity of the faith .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God .. to a perfect (complete) man .. to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . . Ephesians 4:12 .. http://dadmansabode.com... .. come and learn
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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11/28/2013 2:35:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/28/2013 11:17:45 AM, dadman wrote:
you might do good to grab the larger picture .. yes indeed .. mankind is headed for a sad state of affairs .. our sins are truly running their course

PSALM 2 Why do the heathen (Nations) rage .. and the people imagine a vain thing .. The kings of the earth set themselves .. and the rulers take counsel together .. against the Lord .. and against his anointed .. saying . . . Let us break their bands asunder .. and cast away their cords from us . . . He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision . . . Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath .. and vex them in his sore displeasure ..

Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion

http://dadmansabode.com...

They are not plotting against god! Most of these wars are god based. Just look at the Middle East. The US which may be a supposed secular nation, got involved on mostly religious basis and lies about WMDs. The civil wars in the Middle East has been between the Kurds, the Sunnis, the Shiites and the seculars. All of these groups are semi-religious, even the seculars, and all invoke god, or Allah as helping their side.

In the past there were no atheists. There were all religious nations. Whether or not they were Christian or Jews or Muslims, they fought claiming that god was on their side.

Then even when the whole of Europe was Christian, and very religious, did they get together and say "Hey we are all Christian, and all Catholic for that matter, let's have peace in Europe"? No! They had massive civil war, and both sides invoked god.

The Christian Nations fight just as much as anyone else.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
Kassandra
Posts: 47
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11/28/2013 3:25:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/28/2013 2:35:01 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 11/28/2013 11:17:45 AM, dadman wrote:
you might do good to grab the larger picture .. yes indeed .. mankind is headed for a sad state of affairs .. our sins are truly running their course

PSALM 2 Why do the heathen (Nations) rage .. and the people imagine a vain thing .. The kings of the earth set themselves .. and the rulers take counsel together .. against the Lord .. and against his anointed .. saying . . . Let us break their bands asunder .. and cast away their cords from us . . . He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision . . . Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath .. and vex them in his sore displeasure ..

Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion

http://dadmansabode.com...

They are not plotting against god! Most of these wars are god based. Just look at the Middle East. The US which may be a supposed secular nation, got involved on mostly religious basis and lies about WMDs. The civil wars in the Middle East has been between the Kurds, the Sunnis, the Shiites and the seculars. All of these groups are semi-religious, even the seculars, and all invoke god, or Allah as helping their side.

In the past there were no atheists. There were all religious nations. Whether or not they were Christian or Jews or Muslims, they fought claiming that god was on their side.

Then even when the whole of Europe was Christian, and very religious, did they get together and say "Hey we are all Christian, and all Catholic for that matter, let's have peace in Europe"? No! They had massive civil war, and both sides invoked god.

The Christian Nations fight just as much as anyone else.

Thanx, Lordgrae. In my opinion, you are right on. This is Thanksgiving Day. Are we thanking the Native Americans for saving our sorry arses from starvation? No, we are thanking God for the Thanksgiving Day slaughter of those same Native Americans. Talk about enshiring hypocrisy!
Kassandra
Kassandra
Posts: 47
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11/28/2013 3:38:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/28/2013 2:35:01 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 11/28/2013 11:17:45 AM, dadman wrote:
you might do good to grab the larger picture .. yes indeed .. mankind is headed for a sad state of affairs .. our sins are truly running their course

PSALM 2 Why do the heathen (Nations) rage .. and the people imagine a vain thing .. The kings of the earth set themselves .. and the rulers take counsel together .. against the Lord .. and against his anointed .. saying . . . Let us break their bands asunder .. and cast away their cords from us . . . He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision . . . Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath .. and vex them in his sore displeasure ..

Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion

http://dadmansabode.com...

They are not plotting against god! Most of these wars are god based. Just look at the Middle East. The US which may be a supposed secular nation, got involved on mostly religious basis and lies about WMDs. The civil wars in the Middle East has been between the Kurds, the Sunnis, the Shiites and the seculars. All of these groups are semi-religious, even the seculars, and all invoke god, or Allah as helping their side.

In the past there were no atheists. There were all religious nations. Whether or not they were Christian or Jews or Muslims, they fought claiming that god was on their side.

Then even when the whole of Europe was Christian, and very religious, did they get together and say "Hey we are all Christian, and all Catholic for that matter, let's have peace in Europe"? No! They had massive civil war, and both sides invoked god.

The Christian Nations fight just as much as anyone else.

Thanx, Lordgrae. In my opinion, you are righy on. This is Thanksgiving Day. Are we thanking the Native Americans for saving our sorry arses from starvation? No, we are thanking God for the Thanksgiving Day slaughter of those same Native Americans. Talk about enshiring hypocrisy!
Kassandra
21st_Century_Occultist
Posts: 65
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11/28/2013 8:47:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
We say plenty of intelligent things. To our knowledge we are the only entities I the entire universe that can have intelligent questions and discussions. Perhaps the god concept you are referencing is simply an unsatisfactory one. I've seen views of god that don't contradict wars or anything of the sort. There is a possibility, though very slight, that we can evolve past wars. In the end that is a different topic though. I see no relation between any possibly objective deity and humanity's shortcomings. Even in the "hominid" bashing thread you are adding far too much importance to humanity in the eyes of any logically possible god concept.
The Method of Science, the Aim of Religion
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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11/28/2013 9:22:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
ALL supernatural god(s) are Unworthy of my worship & adoration!

Conversely I AM unambiguously worthy of theirs!

e.g. My extreme benevolent Modesty alone confirms that!
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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11/28/2013 9:36:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/28/2013 11:08:14 AM, Kassandra wrote:
If I were God, and therefore all-powerful and all-knowing, I doubt I would be interested in the ridiculous words and behaviours of hominids. For example, in roughly 3500 years, there have been roughly 230 years of peace. And who does each side of every absurd conflict invoke? Why, God, of course! How can God be on both sides of every "just" war? And, if God wa s on the side of the losing side, how do the hominids explain that? That "their" god was puny? No, there is always some other rationalization. Logic dictates that there are no "just" wars. Just the greedy, silly, violent, wilfully ignorant, club-swinging, knuckle-dragging hominids! If I were God, I would still be waiting for the hominids to evolve to a point where we might all have something intelligent to say to one another.

Not to detract from your intended message, but during the Cold War the Soviet Union was openly atheistic, while the US and her allies were for the most part Christian. I don't think that had anything to do with the outcome, though, or ever does. If there were a God, I would suppose that we'd be very primitive to him at this point in time, but we couldn't possibly know our potential. I doubt that any God would listen to prayers calling for the destruction of anyone, because you are right - there are no just wars, although there are just defenses. People don't much listen to God, whether he's there or not. But that wouldn't mean he didn't exist. It would only mean that people are hypocrites, which we know we are. I wish I knew all the truth and facts about God and his existence, I really do. I look for logic and reason all the time because I hope it will lead me to some real Truth. Let's face it, whatever our reality is, it's stranger than anything we can imagine, at least so far. Knowing that the way we do, why would we close the book on anything just yet?
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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11/28/2013 9:43:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/28/2013 2:35:01 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 11/28/2013 11:17:45 AM, dadman wrote:
you might do good to grab the larger picture .. yes indeed .. mankind is headed for a sad state of affairs .. our sins are truly running their course

PSALM 2 Why do the heathen (Nations) rage .. and the people imagine a vain thing .. The kings of the earth set themselves .. and the rulers take counsel together .. against the Lord .. and against his anointed .. saying . . . Let us break their bands asunder .. and cast away their cords from us . . . He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision . . . Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath .. and vex them in his sore displeasure ..

Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion

http://dadmansabode.com...

They are not plotting against god! Most of these wars are god based. Just look at the Middle East. The US which may be a supposed secular nation, got involved on mostly religious basis and lies about WMDs. The civil wars in the Middle East has been between the Kurds, the Sunnis, the Shiites and the seculars. All of these groups are semi-religious, even the seculars, and all invoke god, or Allah as helping their side.

In the past there were no atheists. There were all religious nations. Whether or not they were Christian or Jews or Muslims, they fought claiming that god was on their side.

Then even when the whole of Europe was Christian, and very religious, did they get together and say "Hey we are all Christian, and all Catholic for that matter, let's have peace in Europe"? No! They had massive civil war, and both sides invoked god.

The Christian Nations fight just as much as anyone else.

No wars are "God-based." God is just used as an excuse when it's handy, just as fear and nationalism are. We give God the color of skin we want him to have, and all the other characteristics we find useful. Even while trying to rally support for the First Crusade, Pope Urban had to resort to promising the kings and nobles loot and land, and tell the men who would do the fighting that they could rape and pillage freely without committing sin, and would go straight to Heaven if they died. People use God, whether God is there or not, just as people use everything else. But there are other people who are honestly good, and their goodness gives me hope for humankind.
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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11/28/2013 10:24:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/28/2013 9:43:52 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 11/28/2013 2:35:01 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 11/28/2013 11:17:45 AM, dadman wrote:
you might do good to grab the larger picture .. yes indeed .. mankind is headed for a sad state of affairs .. our sins are truly running their course

PSALM 2 Why do the heathen (Nations) rage .. and the people imagine a vain thing .. The kings of the earth set themselves .. and the rulers take counsel together .. against the Lord .. and against his anointed .. saying . . . Let us break their bands asunder .. and cast away their cords from us . . . He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision . . . Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath .. and vex them in his sore displeasure ..

Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion

http://dadmansabode.com...

They are not plotting against god! Most of these wars are god based. Just look at the Middle East. The US which may be a supposed secular nation, got involved on mostly religious basis and lies about WMDs. The civil wars in the Middle East has been between the Kurds, the Sunnis, the Shiites and the seculars. All of these groups are semi-religious, even the seculars, and all invoke god, or Allah as helping their side.

In the past there were no atheists. There were all religious nations. Whether or not they were Christian or Jews or Muslims, they fought claiming that god was on their side.

Then even when the whole of Europe was Christian, and very religious, did they get together and say "Hey we are all Christian, and all Catholic for that matter, let's have peace in Europe"? No! They had massive civil war, and both sides invoked god.

The Christian Nations fight just as much as anyone else.

No wars are "God-based." God is just used as an excuse when it's handy, just as fear and nationalism are. We give God the color of skin we want him to have, and all the other characteristics we find useful. Even while trying to rally support for the First Crusade, Pope Urban had to resort to promising the kings and nobles loot and land, and tell the men who would do the fighting that they could rape and pillage freely without committing sin, and would go straight to Heaven if they died. People use God, whether God is there or not, just as people use everything else. But there are other people who are honestly good, and their goodness gives me hope for humankind.

Look, the people on the top have different motivations. They have the desire for money and power. However, they sell it to the people at the bottom of the power chain by slapping the god label on it. God isn't the cause of the war, but by slapping god on the banners, they can market to the peasants.

And I completely agree with you that god is an excuse for war, but as Richard Dawkins said (not exact quote. Possible that Dawkins was quoting someone else) "Without religion, we would have good people doing good things and bad people doing bad things. However, it takes religion for good people to do bad things"
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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11/28/2013 10:42:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/28/2013 10:24:08 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 11/28/2013 9:43:52 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 11/28/2013 2:35:01 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 11/28/2013 11:17:45 AM, dadman wrote:

Look, the people on the top have different motivations. They have the desire for money and power. However, they sell it to the people at the bottom of the power chain by slapping the god label on it. God isn't the cause of the war, but by slapping god on the banners, they can market to the peasants.

And I completely agree with you that god is an excuse for war, but as Richard Dawkins said (not exact quote. Possible that Dawkins was quoting someone else) "Without religion, we would have good people doing good things and bad people doing bad things. However, it takes religion for good people to do bad things"

I wish it were that simple, but there will always be war, and "good" people doing bad things. Here in the West we are taught to literally worship technology because it has the power to save us, and those who control that power are supposed to be heroes or something. In China right now there is a great surge of nationalistic fervor, and that's the most dangerous faith of all, that "your" people are superior to the rest of the world because of how old your country is or how imperial and pure the bloodline. The US does the same using different 'ennobling characteristics' to make us the special ones. The truth is that there have been two major classes of people for thousands of years - those who are "noble" and deserving and those who are peasantry and helpless to know how to save ourselves. Just because the titles are gone doesn't change anything. We still have Counts and Knights and such, and those who tap into old money and old power still control the real power. Religion has been a phase which is passing. It's standing at the last bastions right now, defending even its right to exist. But the truth is the truth, and none of us are sure what that is yet. Oh, how I would love to know the truth. Sorry, I know I'm rambling a bit. I don't care for religion much, but there are many religious people I like and some I love because they are good people. The same is true of atheists and everything in-between. I say judge the person for more than something they don't even really understand?