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Using the Miraculously Evolved Brain

Kassandra
Posts: 47
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11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader -- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.
Kassandra
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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11/30/2013 5:01:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader

Why?

-- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Cosmological arguments, moral arguments, arguments from religious experience, arguments from consciousness and rationality, etc.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/30/2013 5:17:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 5:01:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader

Why?

-- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Cosmological arguments, moral arguments, arguments from religious experience, arguments from consciousness and rationality, etc.

I don't see what this has to do with God's existence. Maybe you could argue that God is necessary for morality, but I don't see you doing it the other way around.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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11/30/2013 5:20:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 5:17:12 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:01:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader

Why?

-- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Cosmological arguments, moral arguments, arguments from religious experience, arguments from consciousness and rationality, etc.

I don't see what this has to do with God's existence. Maybe you could argue that God is necessary for morality, but I don't see you doing it the other way around.

The other way around? What do you mean?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/30/2013 5:23:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 5:20:04 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:17:12 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:01:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader

Why?

-- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Cosmological arguments, moral arguments, arguments from religious experience, arguments from consciousness and rationality, etc.

I don't see what this has to do with God's existence. Maybe you could argue that God is necessary for morality, but I don't see you doing it the other way around.

The other way around? What do you mean?

Arguing that God exists because morality.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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11/30/2013 5:32:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 5:23:49 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:20:04 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:17:12 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:01:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader

Why?

-- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Cosmological arguments, moral arguments, arguments from religious experience, arguments from consciousness and rationality, etc.

I don't see what this has to do with God's existence. Maybe you could argue that God is necessary for morality, but I don't see you doing it the other way around.

The other way around? What do you mean?

Arguing that God exists because morality.

Ohhhh, I see your point.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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11/30/2013 5:33:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 5:32:16 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:23:49 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:20:04 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:17:12 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:01:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader

Why?

-- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Cosmological arguments, moral arguments, arguments from religious experience, arguments from consciousness and rationality, etc.

I don't see what this has to do with God's existence. Maybe you could argue that God is necessary for morality, but I don't see you doing it the other way around.

The other way around? What do you mean?

Arguing that God exists because morality.

Ohhhh, I see your point.

And your response is?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Kassandra
Posts: 47
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11/30/2013 5:33:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 5:01:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader

Why?

-- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Cosmological arguments, moral arguments, arguments from religious experience, arguments from consciousness and rationality, etc.

Why? Why not? When I asked (for example) what exactly IS worship in the minds of those claiming to be worshipers, I get canned quotes from some website or endless reams of babble quotes, or mafe up parables. But no real answers in like 60 posts. Seems like the theists require a great many crutches to support their purported belief systems. I am able to explain why it is that I am highly skeptical re the Whole Ball of Wax, and its constituent parts without quoting agnostics or atheist writings, I am just asking for the same courtesy. At bottom, there must be SOME rationale for such strongly held beliefs--that did not fall out of someone else's mouth(?)
Kassandra
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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11/30/2013 6:05:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 5:33:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:32:16 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:23:49 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:20:04 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:17:12 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:01:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader

Why?

-- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Cosmological arguments, moral arguments, arguments from religious experience, arguments from consciousness and rationality, etc.

I don't see what this has to do with God's existence. Maybe you could argue that God is necessary for morality, but I don't see you doing it the other way around.

The other way around? What do you mean?

Arguing that God exists because morality.

Ohhhh, I see your point.

And your response is?

The relationship is asymmetric - God grounds morality, not morality grounds God. But I think you can start from the alleged fact that objective morals exist to God. That's what I meant.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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11/30/2013 7:41:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 6:05:01 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:33:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:32:16 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:23:49 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:20:04 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:17:12 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:01:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader

Why?

-- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Cosmological arguments, moral arguments, arguments from religious experience, arguments from consciousness and rationality, etc.

I don't see what this has to do with God's existence. Maybe you could argue that God is necessary for morality, but I don't see you doing it the other way around.

The other way around? What do you mean?

Arguing that God exists because morality.

Ohhhh, I see your point.

And your response is?

The relationship is asymmetric - God grounds morality, not morality grounds God. But I think you can start from the alleged fact that objective morals exist to God. That's what I meant.

If God is needed for the existence of a moral code, why is it most atheists have morals?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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11/30/2013 7:50:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 7:41:02 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/30/2013 6:05:01 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:33:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:32:16 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:23:49 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:20:04 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:17:12 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:01:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader

Why?

-- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Cosmological arguments, moral arguments, arguments from religious experience, arguments from consciousness and rationality, etc.

I don't see what this has to do with God's existence. Maybe you could argue that God is necessary for morality, but I don't see you doing it the other way around.

The other way around? What do you mean?

Arguing that God exists because morality.

Ohhhh, I see your point.

And your response is?

The relationship is asymmetric - God grounds morality, not morality grounds God. But I think you can start from the alleged fact that objective morals exist to God. That's what I meant.

If God is needed for the existence of a moral code, why is it most atheists have morals?

Because belief in God isn't necessary in order to have moral knowledge....

Ontology =/= epistemology
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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11/30/2013 7:53:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 7:50:08 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 7:41:02 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/30/2013 6:05:01 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:33:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:32:16 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:23:49 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:20:04 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:17:12 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:01:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader

Why?

-- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Cosmological arguments, moral arguments, arguments from religious experience, arguments from consciousness and rationality, etc.

I don't see what this has to do with God's existence. Maybe you could argue that God is necessary for morality, but I don't see you doing it the other way around.

The other way around? What do you mean?

Arguing that God exists because morality.

Ohhhh, I see your point.

And your response is?

The relationship is asymmetric - God grounds morality, not morality grounds God. But I think you can start from the alleged fact that objective morals exist to God. That's what I meant.

If God is needed for the existence of a moral code, why is it most atheists have morals?

Because belief in God isn't necessary in order to have moral knowledge....

Ontology =/= epistemology

That's because knowledge is relative to the knower.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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11/30/2013 7:55:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 7:53:53 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/30/2013 7:50:08 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 7:41:02 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/30/2013 6:05:01 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:33:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:32:16 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:23:49 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:20:04 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:17:12 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:01:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader

Why?

-- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Cosmological arguments, moral arguments, arguments from religious experience, arguments from consciousness and rationality, etc.

I don't see what this has to do with God's existence. Maybe you could argue that God is necessary for morality, but I don't see you doing it the other way around.

The other way around? What do you mean?

Arguing that God exists because morality.

Ohhhh, I see your point.

And your response is?

The relationship is asymmetric - God grounds morality, not morality grounds God. But I think you can start from the alleged fact that objective morals exist to God. That's what I meant.

If God is needed for the existence of a moral code, why is it most atheists have morals?

Because belief in God isn't necessary in order to have moral knowledge....

Ontology =/= epistemology

That's because knowledge is relative to the knower.

O...kay....
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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11/30/2013 8:04:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 7:55:24 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 7:53:53 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/30/2013 7:50:08 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 7:41:02 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/30/2013 6:05:01 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:33:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:32:16 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:23:49 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:20:04 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:17:12 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:01:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader

Why?

-- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Cosmological arguments, moral arguments, arguments from religious experience, arguments from consciousness and rationality, etc.

I don't see what this has to do with God's existence. Maybe you could argue that God is necessary for morality, but I don't see you doing it the other way around.

The other way around? What do you mean?

Arguing that God exists because morality.

Ohhhh, I see your point.

And your response is?

The relationship is asymmetric - God grounds morality, not morality grounds God. But I think you can start from the alleged fact that objective morals exist to God. That's what I meant.

If God is needed for the existence of a moral code, why is it most atheists have morals?

Because belief in God isn't necessary in order to have moral knowledge....

Ontology =/= epistemology

That's because knowledge is relative to the knower.

O...kay....

Let me explain. Just because you believe in a god and believe that god is essential to a code of ethics means absolutely nothing. Those beliefs are relative to you and you, alone; therefore, you cannot logically say those beliefs are absolutely true.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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11/30/2013 8:32:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 8:04:55 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/30/2013 7:55:24 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 7:53:53 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/30/2013 7:50:08 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 7:41:02 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/30/2013 6:05:01 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:33:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:32:16 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:23:49 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:20:04 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:17:12 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:01:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader

Why?

-- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Cosmological arguments, moral arguments, arguments from religious experience, arguments from consciousness and rationality, etc.

I don't see what this has to do with God's existence. Maybe you could argue that God is necessary for morality, but I don't see you doing it the other way around.

The other way around? What do you mean?

Arguing that God exists because morality.

Ohhhh, I see your point.

And your response is?

The relationship is asymmetric - God grounds morality, not morality grounds God. But I think you can start from the alleged fact that objective morals exist to God. That's what I meant.

If God is needed for the existence of a moral code, why is it most atheists have morals?

Because belief in God isn't necessary in order to have moral knowledge....

Ontology =/= epistemology

That's because knowledge is relative to the knower.

O...kay....

Let me explain. Just because you believe in a god and believe that god is essential to a code of ethics means absolutely nothing.

Sure it does.

Those beliefs are relative to you and you, alone; therefore, you cannot logically say those beliefs are absolutely true.

Sure I can.

Btw, is your belief that beliefs can only be relativized to that person and are not able to "generalized" and claimed to be "absolute" relative only to you?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/30/2013 8:38:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader -- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

The brain of a man is only a processor of information, which is stored as wavelengths of energy. A wavelength of energy is a bit of information, like a 0 and a 1 in computer binary code but scientists don't quite understand this yet. They've been too busy looking for the Truth within an atom, which is only an illusion that comes from vibrations of energy on the retina's of our eyes, much like how a pixel works in Photoshop.

Since energy IS information, then how did this information come into existence? There had to be some kind of Master Programmer who created this information. It didn't get there by chance.

The only way we can see is if bits of energy are processed through our brain to give us visible illusions on the retina's, which are much like video monitors. All our other senses operate with vibrations of energy, also.

If God ever allows scientists to understand that energy is indeed information, people of this world will have their evidence that a Master Programmer exists but until then, the only way to understand this is by listening to God's last saint who's been given the hidden knowledge of God to understand how we were created.
Kassandra
Posts: 47
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11/30/2013 8:42:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Suppose it was your job to explain your belief in God to an English-speaking alien from another galaxy far, far away. This individual has no cultural references or biases; no prior convictions or beliefs. Using your own thought processes, how would you explain your belief in the existence of God to such a being--without reference to any book or person other than yourself (such references being "lost" on the alien, in any case)???
Kassandra
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/30/2013 8:49:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 8:42:37 PM, Kassandra wrote:
Suppose it was your job to explain your belief in God to an English-speaking alien from another galaxy far, far away. This individual has no cultural references or biases; no prior convictions or beliefs. Using your own thought processes, how would you explain your belief in the existence of God to such a being--without reference to any book or person other than yourself (such references being "lost" on the alien, in any case)???

It's taken our Creator thousands of years to help us understand that we're invisible wavelengths of energy. Since we're only invisible energy, who's more real, man or alien?
Kassandra
Posts: 47
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11/30/2013 8:59:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 8:49:18 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:42:37 PM, Kassandra wrote:
Suppose it was your job to explain your belief in God to an English-speaking alien from another galaxy far, far away. This individual has no cultural references or biases; no prior convictions or beliefs. Using your own thought processes, how would you explain your belief in the existence of God to such a being--without reference to any book or person other than yourself (such references being "lost" on the alien, in any case)???

It's taken our Creator thousands of years to help us understand that we're invisible wavelengths of energy. Since we're only invisible energy, who's more real, man or alien?

BOG would definitely Not be selected for this job. We want our alien visitor exposed to a cogent interpretation of a belief system.
Kassandra
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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11/30/2013 9:06:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader -- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Kalam Cosmological Argument, Cosmological Arugment From Contingency, Argument from the Fine-Tuning of the Initial Conditions of the Universe to support Intelligent Life, Argument from the Existence of Objective Morals and Duties, Modal Ontological Argument.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/30/2013 9:13:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 8:59:13 PM, Kassandra wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:49:18 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:42:37 PM, Kassandra wrote:
Suppose it was your job to explain your belief in God to an English-speaking alien from another galaxy far, far away. This individual has no cultural references or biases; no prior convictions or beliefs. Using your own thought processes, how would you explain your belief in the existence of God to such a being--without reference to any book or person other than yourself (such references being "lost" on the alien, in any case)???

It's taken our Creator thousands of years to help us understand that we're invisible wavelengths of energy. Since we're only invisible energy, who's more real, man or alien?

BOG would definitely Not be selected for this job. We want our alien visitor exposed to a cogent interpretation of a belief system.

Then you better ask a deluded Christian who thinks their false god named Jesus is the Truth. I'm sure all the aliens would love to hear about Jesus.
Kassandra
Posts: 47
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11/30/2013 9:21:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Better. At least you are not quoting scripture, but you are still using other people's explanations/arguments. Some of which, I admit, I do not know and will go read forthwith. But, why do You believe in God? (if you do).
Kassandra
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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11/30/2013 9:25:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 8:32:14 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:04:55 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/30/2013 7:55:24 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 7:53:53 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/30/2013 7:50:08 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 7:41:02 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/30/2013 6:05:01 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:33:41 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:32:16 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:23:49 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:20:04 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:17:12 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
At 11/30/2013 5:01:54 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader

Why?

-- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Cosmological arguments, moral arguments, arguments from religious experience, arguments from consciousness and rationality, etc.

I don't see what this has to do with God's existence. Maybe you could argue that God is necessary for morality, but I don't see you doing it the other way around.

The other way around? What do you mean?

Arguing that God exists because morality.

Ohhhh, I see your point.

And your response is?

The relationship is asymmetric - God grounds morality, not morality grounds God. But I think you can start from the alleged fact that objective morals exist to God. That's what I meant.

If God is needed for the existence of a moral code, why is it most atheists have morals?

Because belief in God isn't necessary in order to have moral knowledge....

Ontology =/= epistemology

That's because knowledge is relative to the knower.

O...kay....

Let me explain. Just because you believe in a god and believe that god is essential to a code of ethics means absolutely nothing.

Sure it does.

Notice: I put the emphasis on absolutely; I'm not saying it means nothing; of course, it means something; it means something, to you. However, that meaning is relative, to you.

Those beliefs are relative to you and you, alone; therefore, you cannot logically say those beliefs are absolutely true.

Sure I can.

How are those beliefs absolutely true?


Btw, is your belief that beliefs can only be relativized to that person and are not able to "generalized" and claimed to be "absolute" relative only to you?

It may not be relative to me, alone; I can't speak for other people, but, nevertheless, it's relative.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/30/2013 10:38:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 9:21:38 PM, Kassandra wrote:
Better. At least you are not quoting scripture, but you are still using other people's explanations/arguments. Some of which, I admit, I do not know and will go read forthwith. But, why do You believe in God? (if you do).

I don't believe in a God anymore. I speak for our Creator.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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12/1/2013 3:56:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 9:06:47 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader -- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Kalam Cosmological Argument, Cosmological Arugment From Contingency, Argument from the Fine-Tuning of the Initial Conditions of the Universe to support Intelligent Life, Argument from the Existence of Objective Morals and Duties, Modal Ontological Argument.
Consider me the Alien. Now present the Fine tuning argument to me and convince me of it's veracity and thereby your god's existence.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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12/1/2013 7:01:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 3:56:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:06:47 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader -- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Kalam Cosmological Argument, Cosmological Arugment From Contingency, Argument from the Fine-Tuning of the Initial Conditions of the Universe to support Intelligent Life, Argument from the Existence of Objective Morals and Duties, Modal Ontological Argument.
Consider me the Alien. Now present the Fine tuning argument to me and convince me of it's veracity and thereby your god's existence.

1. the fine-tuning of the universe to support intelligent life like you or I is due either to chance, the laws of physics, or design
2. it is not due to chance or the laws of physics insomuch as we have discovered them
3. therefore, it is due to design

This design points to an intelligent designer, what we call "God".
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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12/1/2013 7:36:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 7:01:06 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/1/2013 3:56:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:06:47 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader -- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Kalam Cosmological Argument, Cosmological Arugment From Contingency, Argument from the Fine-Tuning of the Initial Conditions of the Universe to support Intelligent Life, Argument from the Existence of Objective Morals and Duties, Modal Ontological Argument.
Consider me the Alien. Now present the Fine tuning argument to me and convince me of it's veracity and thereby your god's existence.

1. the fine-tuning of the universe to support intelligent life like you or I is due either to chance, the laws of physics, or design
2. it is not due to chance or the laws of physics insomuch as we have discovered them
3. therefore, it is due to design

This design points to an intelligent designer, what we call "God".

Is your god omnipotent?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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12/1/2013 8:39:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 7:01:06 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/1/2013 3:56:43 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:06:47 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 11/30/2013 4:30:40 PM, Kassandra wrote:
And refraining from quoting the koran, bible, talmud, or any human derived book or leader -- including imaginery made-up prophesies (BOG), kindly explain how you would infer, deduce or otherwise arrive at the conclusion that God or gods or goddesses exist or have ever existed. Please and Thank-You.

Kalam Cosmological Argument, Cosmological Arugment From Contingency, Argument from the Fine-Tuning of the Initial Conditions of the Universe to support Intelligent Life, Argument from the Existence of Objective Morals and Duties, Modal Ontological Argument.
Consider me the Alien. Now present the Fine tuning argument to me and convince me of it's veracity and thereby your god's existence.

1. the fine-tuning of the universe to support intelligent life like you or I is due either to chance, the laws of physics, or design
2. it is not due to chance or the laws of physics insomuch as we have discovered them
3. therefore, it is due to design

This design points to an intelligent designer, what we call "God".

How, on Earth, is it not due to probability or the laws of physics? If there's no probability of your existence, then, how, in God's name, do you exist? If the evolution of the human species does not follow the laws of physics, then, why do we classify them as laws ; they may be better termed suggestions, ideas , or even better, yet, the opinions of physics.
Kassandra
Posts: 47
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12/1/2013 10:56:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Here's the bottomline, imo: the religionists, stripped of their various texts and holy prophets, etc., have no proof of god. Therefore they are taxed with "proving scientifically" that god exists. This is problematic for a number of reasons. 1. If there is no physical proof of god--god must somehow be explained INTO existence. 2. god must be indirectly inferred from existing phenomena and/or 3. god must be the only remaining logical result of the elimination of all other possible arguments/theories.

You are, of course, correct. Random chance cannot be summarily dismissed as a causal explanation for (intelligent) life on earth--unless you subscribe to the notion that the earth has been in existence for only 5-10 thousand years. Ditto for the laws of physics. Probability would suggest that both produced a planet capable of sustaining life, the developmeny of life and the evolution of species--sans a particulat design--or designer. So this, along with other complex "proofs of god" theories have been debunked thoroughly by those more adept than I. There are whole books written and complex mathematical equations to support same--and equally complex explanations as to the unsound reasoning inherent in each pro-existence argument. In short, all have been debunked.
Kassandra