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Islam allows men to pressure wives into sex

muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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11/30/2013 6:49:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
From Bukhari

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the Angels will curse her till morning."

From Tirmidhi

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire she must go to him even if she is occupied at the oven!"

Please argue against the idea that these ahadith imply that women are basically obligated to have sex with their husbands even if they don't feel like it.
The idea that if a wife refuses sex, it is basically considered a sin.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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11/30/2013 7:32:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 6:49:25 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
From Bukhari

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the Angels will curse her till morning."

From Tirmidhi

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire she must go to him even if she is occupied at the oven!"


Please argue against the idea that these ahadith imply that women are basically obligated to have sex with their husbands even if they don't feel like it.
The idea that if a wife refuses sex, it is basically considered a sin.

It's called rape.
Kassandra
Posts: 47
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11/30/2013 8:11:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire she must go to him even if she is occupied at the oven!"

Please argue against the idea that these ahadith imply that women are basically obligated to have sex with their husbands even if they don't feel like it.
The idea that if a wife refuses sex, it is basically considered a sin.

Not sure what you are asking here(?) Do You think a wife is obligated to have sex with her husband at his whim--or not?

I say women are expected to assume a great many "one-down" and /or "less-than" positions under a great many religions and within nearly every society.
Personally, I have found dealing with some aspects of the male "personality" pretty tiresome--on good days, and grounds for taking a baseball bat to the back of the cranium on really bad days. Fortunately, only did that once in response to being beaten. Unfortunately, he survived. When one finally finds a man or woman with whom there is a meeting of minds--the rest falls into place harmoniously in my opinion. I think it is a weak and insecure man who must make his woman feel inferior in order to make himself out to be superior--whether he resorts to religion or the back of his hand--or both.
Kassandra
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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11/30/2013 8:33:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 8:11:34 PM, Kassandra wrote:

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire she must go to him even if she is occupied at the oven!"

Please argue against the idea that these ahadith imply that women are basically obligated to have sex with their husbands even if they don't feel like it.
The idea that if a wife refuses sex, it is basically considered a sin.

Not sure what you are asking here(?) Do You think a wife is obligated to have sex with her husband at his whim--or not?

I say women are expected to assume a great many "one-down" and /or "less-than" positions under a great many religions and within nearly every society.
Personally, I have found dealing with some aspects of the male "personality" pretty tiresome--on good days, and grounds for taking a baseball bat to the back of the cranium on really bad days. Fortunately, only did that once in response to being beaten. Unfortunately, he survived. When one finally finds a man or woman with whom there is a meeting of minds--the rest falls into place harmoniously in my opinion. I think it is a weak and insecure man who must make his woman feel inferior in order to make himself out to be superior--whether he resorts to religion or the back of his hand--or both.

I am not asking a question. I am claiming that Islam allows men to basically force/pressure women into sex. I think this is very wrong, and I believe most people think so too. However, I am requesting people (particularly muslims) to argue against the idea that forcing women into sex is allowed in their religion.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/30/2013 8:39:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 6:49:25 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
From Bukhari

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the Angels will curse her till morning."

From Tirmidhi

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire she must go to him even if she is occupied at the oven!"


Please argue against the idea that these ahadith imply that women are basically obligated to have sex with their husbands even if they don't feel like it.
The idea that if a wife refuses sex, it is basically considered a sin.

Don't Muslims know how to masturbate?
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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11/30/2013 9:07:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 8:39:47 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/30/2013 6:49:25 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
From Bukhari

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the Angels will curse her till morning."

From Tirmidhi

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire she must go to him even if she is occupied at the oven!"


Please argue against the idea that these ahadith imply that women are basically obligated to have sex with their husbands even if they don't feel like it.
The idea that if a wife refuses sex, it is basically considered a sin.

Don't Muslims know how to masturbate?

didn't your best friend and sex-buddy - the almighty god - tell you this stuff great saint?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/30/2013 9:19:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 9:07:45 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:39:47 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/30/2013 6:49:25 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
From Bukhari

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the Angels will curse her till morning."

From Tirmidhi

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire she must go to him even if she is occupied at the oven!"


Please argue against the idea that these ahadith imply that women are basically obligated to have sex with their husbands even if they don't feel like it.
The idea that if a wife refuses sex, it is basically considered a sin.

Don't Muslims know how to masturbate?

didn't your best friend and sex-buddy - the almighty god - tell you this stuff great saint?

Don't Muslims know how to masturbate? That would relieve their tensions without having to rape their wives. Besides, marriage in this age is only a delusion. It has nothing to do with the next age when man will have two bodies, one male and one female, to be partners for eternity. We won't know what marriage or divorce is in Paradise.
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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11/30/2013 9:40:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 9:19:50 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:07:45 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:39:47 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/30/2013 6:49:25 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
From Bukhari

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the Angels will curse her till morning."

From Tirmidhi

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire she must go to him even if she is occupied at the oven!"


Please argue against the idea that these ahadith imply that women are basically obligated to have sex with their husbands even if they don't feel like it.
The idea that if a wife refuses sex, it is basically considered a sin.

Don't Muslims know how to masturbate?

didn't your best friend and sex-buddy - the almighty god - tell you this stuff great saint?

Don't Muslims know how to masturbate? That would relieve their tensions without having to rape their wives. Besides, marriage in this age is only a delusion. It has nothing to do with the next age when man will have two bodies, one male and one female, to be partners for eternity. We won't know what marriage or divorce is in Paradise.

k
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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11/30/2013 9:42:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 6:49:25 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
From Bukhari

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the Angels will curse her till morning."

From Tirmidhi

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire she must go to him even if she is occupied at the oven!"


Please argue against the idea that these ahadith imply that women are basically obligated to have sex with their husbands even if they don't feel like it.
The idea that if a wife refuses sex, it is basically considered a sin.

Personally, I wouldn't want to have sex with anyone that doesn't want to have sex with me; and, anybody who wants to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with him, or her, I think is a disturbed individual.
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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11/30/2013 9:44:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 9:42:11 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 11/30/2013 6:49:25 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
From Bukhari

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the Angels will curse her till morning."

From Tirmidhi

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire she must go to him even if she is occupied at the oven!"


Please argue against the idea that these ahadith imply that women are basically obligated to have sex with their husbands even if they don't feel like it.
The idea that if a wife refuses sex, it is basically considered a sin.

Personally, I wouldn't want to have sex with anyone that doesn't want to have sex with me; and, anybody who wants to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with him, or her, I think is a disturbed individual.

I agree.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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11/30/2013 11:58:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It is a sin for her if she has no reason ( like a sickness ) But the husband doesn't have the right to force her.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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12/1/2013 4:00:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 11:58:44 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
It is a sin for her if she has no reason ( like a sickness ) But the husband doesn't have the right to force her.
In Islam the male is the superior gender and men are given permission directly from the Qu'ran, to BEAT their women who refuse sex!

004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
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12/1/2013 4:23:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 11:58:44 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
It is a sin for her if she has no reason ( like a sickness ) But the husband doesn't have the right to force her.
Well according to your statement Allah has the right to force her, thus giving the husband a god given right to force her.

How pathetic.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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12/1/2013 5:36:05 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 4:23:10 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/30/2013 11:58:44 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
It is a sin for her if she has no reason ( like a sickness ) But the husband doesn't have the right to force her.
Well according to your statement Allah has the right to force her, thus giving the husband a god given right to force her.

How pathetic.

What statement ?! I said it's a sin for her,that's what the hadeeth is saying, for she is accountable as a wife for that before God. but none can force her, not the justice nor her husband, and her husband has to choose to be patient or divorce her. It's very simple in Islam, and she can divorce as well.
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
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12/1/2013 6:11:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 5:36:05 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 12/1/2013 4:23:10 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/30/2013 11:58:44 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
It is a sin for her if she has no reason ( like a sickness ) But the husband doesn't have the right to force her.
Well according to your statement Allah has the right to force her, thus giving the husband a god given right to force her.

How pathetic.

What statement ?! I said it's a sin for her,that's what the hadeeth is saying, for she is accountable as a wife for that before God. but none can force her, not the justice nor her husband, and her husband has to choose to be patient or divorce her. It's very simple in Islam, and she can divorce as well.
Or she can go to hell for her sins.

No force there..........blaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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12/1/2013 6:40:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 11:58:44 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
It is a sin for her if she has no reason ( like a sickness ) But the husband doesn't have the right to force her.

So if she has no reason like sickness then she has to, even if she does not want to. In other words she does not have a choice even if her husband does not force her. Well she does if she wants to reject Allah, and get stoned?
bulproof
Posts: 25,255
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12/1/2013 6:55:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 6:40:35 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 11/30/2013 11:58:44 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
It is a sin for her if she has no reason ( like a sickness ) But the husband doesn't have the right to force her.

So if she has no reason like sickness then she has to, even if she does not want to. In other words she does not have a choice even if her husband does not force her. Well she does if she wants to reject Allah, and get stoned?

It's Allah who forces her.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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12/1/2013 9:28:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 4:00:09 AM, Composer wrote:
At 11/30/2013 11:58:44 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
It is a sin for her if she has no reason ( like a sickness ) But the husband doesn't have the right to force her.
In Islam the male is the superior gender and men are given permission directly from the Qu'ran, to BEAT their women who refuse sex!

004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

She can avoid that if it's so important to him:

The wife doesn't have the right to just refuse herself to her husband because "she doesn't feel like it", and the husband doesn't have the right to do that either, and he is obliged to provide for her (or them!), if they do they are actually disrespecting the Marriage contract, Now if they are in the situation when the wife doesn't want to obey he husband in the usual things accepted in their society, including sex, then he has to warn her, then if she doesn't comply, he has to leave her alone (not sleep with her for some while) if she still doesn't comply he has to beat her, not the way you think , but this way, and in this situation :

It was reported that the prophet -PBUH- said " ...Fear Allah concerning women! Verily you have taken them on the security of Allah, and intercourse with them has been made lawful unto you by words of Allah. You too have right over them, and that they should not allow anyone to sit on your bed whom you do not like. But if they do that, you can chastise them but not severely. Their rights upon you are that you should provide them with food and clothing in a fitting manner...

http://sunnah.com...

And this :

Aayeshah Radiyallahu 'Anha reports:

"Rasulullah Sallallahu 'Alayhi Wasallam did not hit anything with his mubaarak hands, besides the time when he made jihaad in the Path of Allah. He did not hit a servant nor a woman"

http://sunnah.com...

The authentic Hdeeths are our way to understand Quran for the Prophet is the way and the best person to understand the sense of what was revealed.

And notice when the husband can do that ! when she brings another man in her husbands bed..
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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12/1/2013 9:29:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 6:55:46 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/1/2013 6:40:35 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 11/30/2013 11:58:44 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
It is a sin for her if she has no reason ( like a sickness ) But the husband doesn't have the right to force her.

So if she has no reason like sickness then she has to, even if she does not want to. In other words she does not have a choice even if her husband does not force her. Well she does if she wants to reject Allah, and get stoned?

It's Allah who forces her.

He doesn't force her, as much as he doesn't force you to believe...
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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12/1/2013 9:36:26 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 6:40:35 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 11/30/2013 11:58:44 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
It is a sin for her if she has no reason ( like a sickness ) But the husband doesn't have the right to force her.

So if she has no reason like sickness then she has to, even if she does not want to. In other words she does not have a choice even if her husband does not force her. Well she does if she wants to reject Allah, and get stoned?

Didn't get you, what does stoning has to do with this, stoning is for adulterers..

If she doesn't obey just because she doesn't want to , then she gets sins, that's all , in the here after her sins and good deeds will be scaled.

Not every sin has a punishment by Justice. only the major sins.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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12/1/2013 9:40:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 6:11:50 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/1/2013 5:36:05 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 12/1/2013 4:23:10 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 11/30/2013 11:58:44 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
It is a sin for her if she has no reason ( like a sickness ) But the husband doesn't have the right to force her.
Well according to your statement Allah has the right to force her, thus giving the husband a god given right to force her.

How pathetic.

What statement ?! I said it's a sin for her,that's what the hadeeth is saying, for she is accountable as a wife for that before God. but none can force her, not the justice nor her husband, and her husband has to choose to be patient or divorce her. It's very simple in Islam, and she can divorce as well.
Or she can go to hell for her sins.

No force there..........blaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

You 'd go to Hell way longer for you don't believe, is this forcing you ??!

I know some Muslim women who refuse their husbands for no good reasons without actual consequences , they actually don't feel so obliged for some reason!
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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12/1/2013 10:07:11 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 11:58:44 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
It is a sin for her if she has no reason ( like a sickness ) But the husband doesn't have the right to force her.

does this count as a defence these days?
how does one respond to this?
are you trying to make islam look better or even worse?
Kassandra
Posts: 47
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12/1/2013 10:10:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Lookz like most of us agree (in this tiny subset of society), that it is less than ideal to use the threat of "sin" (which simply means to miss the mark), to force or coerce a woman into obedience. This may seem simple sense to the point of silliness, but consider the millions of women kept in ignorance, imprisonment and subjugation because of the extent to which religion and society at large are in concert. Fundementalist Islam may provide a glaring example in this regard, but it is not at all unique either in history or the present moment. Consider the expressed and implicit orders in Christianity and in Hebrew traditions. I was raised Mormon. Now there's a made up religious cult--if ever there was one! And a woman surely learns her "place" in that outfit! And quickly and from day one. I also lived in Brooklyn near a Hessidic Jewish community. The women of that group didn't see much daylight, from what I could tell. The status of women only began to change (in some countries) during the past 100 years--and it is a transformation that is far, far from universal--or complete. I am anti-theist in large part owing to the deformative role religion plays in keeping the majority of humans--woman--ignorant, poor and physically abused. And, I would argue that men are the poorer for this imbalance--in every sphere of life--including sex.
Kassandra
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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12/1/2013 10:43:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 9:28:54 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 12/1/2013 4:00:09 AM, Composer wrote:
At 11/30/2013 11:58:44 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
It is a sin for her if she has no reason ( like a sickness ) But the husband doesn't have the right to force her.
In Islam the male is the superior gender and men are given permission directly from the Qu'ran, to BEAT their women who refuse sex!

004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

She can avoid that if it's so important to him:

The wife doesn't have the right to just refuse herself to her husband because "she doesn't feel like it", and the husband doesn't have the right to do that either, and he is obliged to provide for her (or them!), if they do they are actually disrespecting the Marriage contract, Now if they are in the situation when the wife doesn't want to obey he husband in the usual things accepted in their society, including sex, then he has to warn her, then if she doesn't comply, he has to leave her alone (not sleep with her for some while) if she still doesn't comply he has to beat her, not the way you think , but this way, and in this situation :

It was reported that the prophet -PBUH- said " ...Fear Allah concerning women! Verily you have taken them on the security of Allah, and intercourse with them has been made lawful unto you by words of Allah. You too have right over them, and that they should not allow anyone to sit on your bed whom you do not like. But if they do that, you can chastise them but not severely. Their rights upon you are that you should provide them with food and clothing in a fitting manner...

http://sunnah.com...

And this :

Aayeshah Radiyallahu 'Anha reports:

"Rasulullah Sallallahu 'Alayhi Wasallam did not hit anything with his mubaarak hands, besides the time when he made jihaad in the Path of Allah. He did not hit a servant nor a woman"

http://sunnah.com...

The authentic Hdeeths are our way to understand Quran for the Prophet is the way and the best person to understand the sense of what was revealed.

And notice when the husband can do that ! when she brings another man in her husbands bed..

""Forced" marriages, where consent has not been given by the bride, or is given only under excessive pressure, is considered legal in the dominating schools of Islamic law if it is the first marriage of the bride and her gardian (wali) is her father or paternal grandfather. A gardian who is allowed the force the bride into marriage is called wali mujbir." - http://en.wikipedia.org...

I think it's sick, in a society where it is forced marriages are legal, for the husband (if you can call him that. By definition, forced sex is rape.), or rapist, can beat his wife, or victim, for not having sex with him.

How would you like it, if the shoe were on the other foot, if you were forced to marry some big fat smelly woman against your will and have sex with her whether you liked it, or not, and if you chose not to, she was allowed to beat you?

I guess that's immaterial; because, the shoe's not on the other foot.... Oh, Well! Better her than you.... Right?
islamandworld
Posts: 21
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12/1/2013 11:25:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"If a man calls his wife to bed and she refuses, and then he sleeps angry, the angels shall curse her until he awakens." [an unquestionably authentic hadith, related by both Bukhari and Muslims, as well as numerous others]

Islam is an religion of peace, and honours women. There are many hadith about the good treatment of women.

Unfortunately some igonarant muslim men think they can force their wives to have sex with them. They argue that "since it is obligatory for a women to respond to her husbands call to have sex , they can force their wives to have sex with them if they refuse their request"

This is wrong and this sort of behaviour has no place in Islam!

Refuting their weak argument (and explaining the hadith in question):

If something is obligatory to do for a muslim, does this mean we are allowed to force a muslim to do so, if he/she doesnt perform the obligated things in Islam.

Like for example, it is obligatory for a muslim to pray 5 times a day, does this mean we can force and abuse/ torture a muslim to peform his prayer?

If someone doesnt fast during Ramadan, are we muslims allowed to force him to do? Of course not. The prophet (swa) never forced anyone to do something.

We know it is obligatory for a person to follow the religion of Islam if he/she wants to get to Jannah, so can we (even out of love or mercy) force non-muslims into islam?

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.

So Allah swt makes clear that we cannot force others to our religion. So if we can"t force non-muslims to islam (to save them from hell) then how can it be allowed to force our own brothers and sisters in islam to do certain religious dutys? Off course we must warn them for committing a sin, and we are obligated to help them and to forbid them what is wrong, but every person in islam is responsible for his own deeds, at the end it"s a persons own choice to decide which thing to do, as muslims brothers and sisters we have to do all we can to save them from sins or evil deeds, but we can"t force them. It"s their own choice which thing to do at the end. Allah swt will judge us on our intentions, a persons real intention comes only out when there is free-will and free-choice in religion. Thats why Allah swt allowed free-will and free-choice in Islam (Allah swt knows best)

So when the prophet said: "If a man invites his wife to sleep with him and she refuses, then the angels send their curses on her till morning "

Does this mean the husband can force his wive into sex/marital rape ? Noooooooo!

The wife clearly knows that she is wrong, when she rejects her husband request (she should fullfil his sexuel needs). But the husband can"t compulse or force his wife into sex/marital rape. The husband has the right to insist that she should fullfil his right, and the husband has the right to be angry at her for this (in a proper way), even the husband has the right to divorce her when she repeatedly refuses his request, however he still hasn"t the right in Islam to force her into sex/marital rape !, if he had the right to do, then certainly the prophet would mention it, but the prophet didn"t. The reason for this is that forcing someone doesn"t belong and doesn"t fit in the peacefull teachings of Islam.

Islam is clear about rules and punishment. For major sins like fornication , rape, murder and theft , there are physical punishments. However when it comes to issues like "not performing the 5 daily prayers" or "not fasting during ramadan" or "not fullfilling the sexual needs of one"s spouse" etc. then a person will be held responsible for his own deeds on the day of judgement. Allah swt will judge a person by his own deeds, all the sins committed by the person during his earthly life will count in his judgement by Allah swt, based on this Allah swt (and not the husband !) will decide which reward and/or which punishment a person will get.: At 11/30/2013 6:49:25 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
From Bukhari

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "If a husband calls his wife to his bed (i.e. to have sexual relation) and she refuses and causes him to sleep in anger, the Angels will curse her till morning."

From Tirmidhi

Allah's Messenger (saws) said, "When a man calls his wife to satisfy his desire she must go to him even if she is occupied at the oven!"


Please argue against the idea that these ahadith imply that women are basically obligated to have sex with their husbands even if they don't feel like it.
The idea that if a wife refuses sex, it is basically considered a sin.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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12/1/2013 11:41:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 10:07:11 AM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 11/30/2013 11:58:44 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
It is a sin for her if she has no reason ( like a sickness ) But the husband doesn't have the right to force her.

does this count as a defence these days?
how does one respond to this?
are you trying to make islam look better or even worse?

I don't care about your judgement, I tell the truth from what I know, if you think it's "bad" that a woman who disobeys her husband is sinning by that, then just argue why is it bad ?!!!
Usama.7
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12/1/2013 11:44:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"islamandworld" did shut you all..
great job bro
i think muslimnomore has nothing to do but attacking Islam with most common
questions about Islam
Fruitytree
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12/1/2013 11:51:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 10:43:22 AM, s-anthony wrote:

""Forced" marriages, where consent has not been given by the bride, or is given only under excessive pressure, is considered legal in the dominating schools of Islamic law if it is the first marriage of the bride and her gardian (wali) is her father or paternal grandfather. A gardian who is allowed the force the bride into marriage is called wali mujbir." - http://en.wikipedia.org...

I think it's sick, in a society where it is forced marriages are legal, for the husband (if you can call him that. By definition, forced sex is rape.), or rapist, can beat his wife, or victim, for not having sex with him.

How would you like it, if the shoe were on the other foot, if you were forced to marry some big fat smelly woman against your will and have sex with her whether you liked it, or not, and if you chose not to, she was allowed to beat you?

I guess that's immaterial; because, the shoe's not on the other foot.... Oh, Well! Better her than you.... Right?

You have to choose whether you want to argue against Islam, or against some Muslim people ?! do you have any Islamic text that allows forced Marriage ?!!! Please don't spread rumours if you're a wise man.

Here for Islam that you may learn:

It was narrated from 'Aishah:

"A girl came to her and said: 'My father married me to his brother's son so that he might raise his own status thereby, and I was unwilling.' She said: 'Sit here until the Prophet comes.' Then the Messenger of Allah came, and I told him (what she had said). He sent word to her father, calling him, and he left the matter up to her. She said: 'O Messenger of Allah, I accept what my father did, but I wanted to know whether women have any say in the matter.'"

http://sunnah.com...
Usama.7
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12/1/2013 11:54:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
i am challenging you "muslimnomore"
if there is any religion on earth has recommended about women like Islam:
hadith :
"among all Muslims the most perfect ,as regards his faith,is the one whose character
is excellent ,and the best among you are those who TREAT THEIR WIVES WELL"
prophet Muhammad -peace be upon him-
narrated by Al Tirmithy and Ibn majah
Usama.7
Posts: 21
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12/1/2013 12:16:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Islam has commanded both, the husband and the wife who are united in the sacred bond of marriage to respect and honor the rights of each other.
its simple ..its the husband right and he must be kindly asking his wife "not forcing"
if she had already an excuse like sickness or menses period ..she can reject and she is not sinner
the real problem is when the wife has no excuse and just remain rejecting for nothing
what should the husband do? forcing ! no he can't
masturbation is also not allowed
then its general rule to avoid this thing ..what if she rejected him for a month he
might need to commit adultery....
then why this marriage if both don't respect each other rights