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Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden

GreatestIam
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11/30/2013 8:46:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com...

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral sense equal to God"s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our fall and all of us inheriting our forefather"s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com...

"They prove the loss not only of innocence but of original righteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God."

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/30/2013 8:51:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 8:46:27 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com...

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral sense equal to God"s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our fall and all of us inheriting our forefather"s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com...

"They prove the loss not only of innocence but of original righteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God."

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL
Neither Christians or Jews know who our Creator is or what the prophecies are about. But there is one last saint on this earth that knows the past, present and future. Why don't you ask him?
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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11/30/2013 9:04:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I do not know of such a person although I do know a few poor delusional fellows who fit that bill.

Send him over so we can chat.

Regards
DL
Somecrap
Posts: 119
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11/30/2013 9:11:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 8:46:27 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com...

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral sense equal to God"s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our fall and all of us inheriting our forefather"s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com...

"They prove the loss not only of innocence but of original righteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God."

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL

The Jewish view for sure.. why god will punish me for adam sin?? did adam ask me before eating the apple or ask my father?? every person according to his deed that is rational but the problem is u cnot be a jew unless u born to a jewish mother salvetion only for the jewish race so again its same like christainty why god throw me to hell if i cant be a jew?? both r nonsense
If u eat u excrete it cant be helped
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/30/2013 9:15:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 9:04:44 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
I do not know of such a person although I do know a few poor delusional fellows who fit that bill.

Send him over so we can chat.

Regards
DL

You've already rejected his teachings you fool.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,241
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11/30/2013 9:22:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 9:11:43 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:46:27 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com...

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral sense equal to God"s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our fall and all of us inheriting our forefather"s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com...

"They prove the loss not only of innocence but of original righteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God."

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL

The Jewish view for sure.. why god will punish me for adam sin?? did adam ask me before eating the apple or ask my father?? every person according to his deed that is rational but the problem is u cnot be a jew unless u born to a jewish mother salvetion only for the jewish race so again its same like christainty why god throw me to hell if i cant be a jew?? both r nonsense

Anyone can be Jewish. While Jews don't seek out converts, anyone who wants to can convert whenever they like.

Not that this matters though, Jews don't believe in this concept of "salvation". Jews don't believe that only Jews are able to go to Heaven.
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Somecrap
Posts: 119
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11/30/2013 9:42:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 9:22:55 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:11:43 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:46:27 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com...

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral sense equal to God"s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our fall and all of us inheriting our forefather"s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com...

"They prove the loss not only of innocence but of original righteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God."

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL

The Jewish view for sure.. why god will punish me for adam sin?? did adam ask me before eating the apple or ask my father?? every person according to his deed that is rational but the problem is u cnot be a jew unless u born to a jewish mother salvetion only for the jewish race so again its same like christainty why god throw me to hell if i cant be a jew?? both r nonsense

Anyone can be Jewish. While Jews don't seek out converts, anyone who wants to can convert whenever they like.

Not that this matters though, Jews don't believe in this concept of "salvation". Jews don't believe that only Jews are able to go to Heaven.

not sure about if u can be a jew but there r rabbi saying that only jews r able.. anyway tnk to correction i will check this ^^
If u eat u excrete it cant be helped
Somecrap
Posts: 119
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11/30/2013 9:42:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 9:22:55 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:11:43 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:46:27 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com...

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral sense equal to God"s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our fall and all of us inheriting our forefather"s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com...

"They prove the loss not only of innocence but of original righteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God."

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL

The Jewish view for sure.. why god will punish me for adam sin?? did adam ask me before eating the apple or ask my father?? every person according to his deed that is rational but the problem is u cnot be a jew unless u born to a jewish mother salvetion only for the jewish race so again its same like christainty why god throw me to hell if i cant be a jew?? both r nonsense

Anyone can be Jewish. While Jews don't seek out converts, anyone who wants to can convert whenever they like.

Not that this matters though, Jews don't believe in this concept of "salvation". Jews don't believe that only Jews are able to go to Heaven.

Not sure about if u can be a jew but there r rabbi saying that only jews r able to go to heaven... anyway tnk to correction i will check this ^^
If u eat u excrete it cant be helped
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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11/30/2013 9:47:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 9:11:43 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:46:27 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com...

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral sense equal to God"s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our fall and all of us inheriting our forefather"s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com...

"They prove the loss not only of innocence but of original righteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God."

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL

The Jewish view for sure.. why god will punish me for adam sin?? did adam ask me before eating the apple or ask my father?? every person according to his deed that is rational but the problem is u cnot be a jew unless u born to a jewish mother salvetion only for the jewish race so again its same like christainty why god throw me to hell if i cant be a jew?? both r nonsense

Some of the same reasons I question the morality of the Christian take. Thanks for this.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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11/30/2013 9:49:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 9:15:31 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:04:44 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
I do not know of such a person although I do know a few poor delusional fellows who fit that bill.

Send him over so we can chat.

Regards
DL

You've already rejected his teachings you fool.

Then he could not be as you stated if he could not even impress this fool.

Regards
DL
airmax1227
Posts: 13,241
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11/30/2013 9:50:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 9:42:53 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:22:55 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:11:43 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:46:27 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com...

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral sense equal to God"s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our fall and all of us inheriting our forefather"s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com...

"They prove the loss not only of innocence but of original righteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God."

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL

The Jewish view for sure.. why god will punish me for adam sin?? did adam ask me before eating the apple or ask my father?? every person according to his deed that is rational but the problem is u cnot be a jew unless u born to a jewish mother salvetion only for the jewish race so again its same like christainty why god throw me to hell if i cant be a jew?? both r nonsense

Anyone can be Jewish. While Jews don't seek out converts, anyone who wants to can convert whenever they like.

Not that this matters though, Jews don't believe in this concept of "salvation". Jews don't believe that only Jews are able to go to Heaven.

Not sure about if u can be a jew but there r rabbi saying that only jews r able to go to heaven... anyway tnk to correction i will check this ^^

You can find some Rabbi anywhere saying any crazy thing (just like clergy of any religion)... But anyone can convert to Judaism, and Jews believe any person deserving can get into Heaven (though "Heaven" as a concept isn't the same in Judaism as it is in Islam or Christianity).
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GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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11/30/2013 9:53:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Could you expand on their heaven and or hell for us?

I am told that Muslims and Jews see Eden the same way.

Regards
DL
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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11/30/2013 10:03:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 9:50:49 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:42:53 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:22:55 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:11:43 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:46:27 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com...

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral sense equal to God"s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our fall and all of us inheriting our forefather"s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com...

"They prove the loss not only of innocence but of original righteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God."

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL

The Jewish view for sure.. why god will punish me for adam sin?? did adam ask me before eating the apple or ask my father?? every person according to his deed that is rational but the problem is u cnot be a jew unless u born to a jewish mother salvetion only for the jewish race so again its same like christainty why god throw me to hell if i cant be a jew?? both r nonsense

Anyone can be Jewish. While Jews don't seek out converts, anyone who wants to can convert whenever they like.

Not that this matters though, Jews don't believe in this concept of "salvation". Jews don't believe that only Jews are able to go to Heaven.

Not sure about if u can be a jew but there r rabbi saying that only jews r able to go to heaven... anyway tnk to correction i will check this ^^

You can find some Rabbi anywhere saying any crazy thing (just like clergy of any religion)... But anyone can convert to Judaism, and Jews believe any person deserving can get into Heaven (though "Heaven" as a concept isn't the same in Judaism as it is in Islam or Christianity).

Jews don't believe in Heaven. They believe in Sheol; which basically means the grave.
Somecrap
Posts: 119
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11/30/2013 10:14:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 9:50:49 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:42:53 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:22:55 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:11:43 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:46:27 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com...

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral sense equal to God"s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our fall and all of us inheriting our forefather"s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com...

"They prove the loss not only of innocence but of original righteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God."

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL

The Jewish view for sure.. why god will punish me for adam sin?? did adam ask me before eating the apple or ask my father?? every person according to his deed that is rational but the problem is u cnot be a jew unless u born to a jewish mother salvetion only for the jewish race so again its same like christainty why god throw me to hell if i cant be a jew?? both r nonsense

Anyone can be Jewish. While Jews don't seek out converts, anyone who wants to can convert whenever they like.

Not that this matters though, Jews don't believe in this concept of "salvation". Jews don't believe that only Jews are able to go to Heaven.

Not sure about if u can be a jew but there r rabbi saying that only jews r able to go to heaven... anyway tnk to correction i will check this ^^

You can find some Rabbi anywhere saying any crazy thing (just like clergy of any religion)... But anyone can convert to Judaism, and Jews believe any person deserving can get into Heaven (though "Heaven" as a concept isn't the same in Judaism as it is in Islam or Christianity).

i read here so many "concepts' of hell heaven or afterlife... so confusing they have many ideas about what will happen in the afterlife...anyway u r a jewish? if yes u can speak hebrew man ^^
If u eat u excrete it cant be helped
airmax1227
Posts: 13,241
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11/30/2013 10:16:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 10:14:12 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:50:49 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:42:53 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:22:55 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:11:43 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:46:27 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com...

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral sense equal to God"s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our fall and all of us inheriting our forefather"s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com...

"They prove the loss not only of innocence but of original righteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God."

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL

The Jewish view for sure.. why god will punish me for adam sin?? did adam ask me before eating the apple or ask my father?? every person according to his deed that is rational but the problem is u cnot be a jew unless u born to a jewish mother salvetion only for the jewish race so again its same like christainty why god throw me to hell if i cant be a jew?? both r nonsense

Anyone can be Jewish. While Jews don't seek out converts, anyone who wants to can convert whenever they like.

Not that this matters though, Jews don't believe in this concept of "salvation". Jews don't believe that only Jews are able to go to Heaven.

Not sure about if u can be a jew but there r rabbi saying that only jews r able to go to heaven... anyway tnk to correction i will check this ^^

You can find some Rabbi anywhere saying any crazy thing (just like clergy of any religion)... But anyone can convert to Judaism, and Jews believe any person deserving can get into Heaven (though "Heaven" as a concept isn't the same in Judaism as it is in Islam or Christianity).

i read here so many "concepts' of hell heaven or afterlife... so confusing they have many ideas about what will happen in the afterlife...anyway u r a jewish? if yes u can speak hebrew man ^^

Yeah, there are many different beliefs about Heaven/Hell/afterlife and it can get confusing...

I am Jewish, and I can speak Hebrew.
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bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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11/30/2013 10:17:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 9:49:00 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:15:31 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:04:44 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
I do not know of such a person although I do know a few poor delusional fellows who fit that bill.

Send him over so we can chat.

Regards
DL

You've already rejected his teachings you fool.

Then he could not be as you stated if he could not even impress this fool.

Regards
DL

Do you think I'm here to impress people? If that were true, then I would have left this forum a long time ago.
GreatestIam
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12/1/2013 10:23:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 10:17:02 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:49:00 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:15:31 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:04:44 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
I do not know of such a person although I do know a few poor delusional fellows who fit that bill.

Send him over so we can chat.

Regards
DL

You've already rejected his teachings you fool.

Then he could not be as you stated if he could not even impress this fool.

Regards
DL

Do you think I'm here to impress people? If that were true, then I would have left this forum a long time ago.

Why did you not say that you were speaking of you?

Jesus said those who believed in him could do what he did. He was impressive in speech. If you believe then you should be as well.

That aside though, do you plan on opining on the O P or will you just hide behind what might just be your delusion?

I cannot tell if you are just a fool yourself until you speak to the issuer.

Regards
DL
Fruitytree
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12/1/2013 1:17:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 11/30/2013 10:16:56 PM, airmax1227 wrote:

Yeah, there are many different beliefs about Heaven/Hell/afterlife and it can get confusing...

I am Jewish, and I can speak Hebrew.

That's great! I heard that people who accepted Jewish beliefs (that is monotheism and accepted the prophets of God YHWH) but aren't from the Children of Israel were called Muslimoun in Hebrew , Is that true? take a look at this video please and let me know.

https://www.youtube.com...
bornofgod
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12/2/2013 2:44:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 10:23:19 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 11/30/2013 10:17:02 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:49:00 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:15:31 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:04:44 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
I do not know of such a person although I do know a few poor delusional fellows who fit that bill.

Send him over so we can chat.

Regards
DL

You've already rejected his teachings you fool.

Then he could not be as you stated if he could not even impress this fool.

Regards
DL

Do you think I'm here to impress people? If that were true, then I would have left this forum a long time ago.

Why did you not say that you were speaking of you?

Jesus said those who believed in him could do what he did. He was impressive in speech. If you believe then you should be as well.

That aside though, do you plan on opining on the O P or will you just hide behind what might just be your delusion?

I cannot tell if you are just a fool yourself until you speak to the issuer.

Regards
DL

God has had me write many testimonies in this forum with many opening threads that most forum members can't understand. The only reason Jesus appears to be a great orator is because of the Roman religious leaders who wrote the new testament. Many of the producers of the new testament used their best translators and orators to make sure their Jesus looked like a god to their Christians. They had no idea what this following scripture was about;

I Corinthians 1:
25: For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26: For consider your call, brethren; not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth;
27: but God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong,
28: God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are,
29: so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.

Most of us saints and prophets were NOT good orators or writers but every word that God puts in our mind is how God wanted us to write and speak. We each have different personalities and learned vocabularies in various languages and this is what God has to use in each one of us to testify to the Word. The Word of God is invisible so we have to testify in languages we can understand to learn about this invisible knowledge that no man has ever seen. So we saints learn as we read and hear our testimonies that God has us write and speak. This is how the original prophecies and writings were written by the rest of the prophets and saints that God used for His purpose.

How else do you think the prophecies came into being? Do you think they appeared all by themselves?
GreatestIam
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12/2/2013 3:15:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't know and don't care at present and ask again if you plan to opine on the O P.

If not, don't bother me with garbage.

Regards
DL
tearfangf
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7/9/2015 11:01:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
re: OP
I'll note that the setup of the question is awkward. There is more than one Jewish position just as there is more than one Christian perspective. And since they both share the same Eden text a good amount of overlap and shared interpretations should be expected.

I'll opine that both are partially right.

The elevation view is right in the sense that it sees knowledge of good and evil as a good thing. It is truly a God like ability.
The loss of innocence view is also right in the sense that with moral knowledge comes moral responsibility, and that humanity, really, truly, sucks when it comes to making good moral choices. If history teaches us anything, it is that humanity sucks at making good moral choices.

A more complete view
The story essentially portrays humanity's acquisition of moral knowledge as theft. The 'tree and its fruit' were God's and He didn't give it to us, yet we took it anyways. The story of Eden is a story of humans who were not designed to make moral choices, stealing the amazing wondrous knowledge of good and evil, and in so doing becoming responsible for moral choices. Because humanity sucks at making moral choices, that responsibility has been a disaster for humanity. The story does attempt speculation of what would have happened, but it is entirely reasonable to postulate a scenario where the forbidden fruit was not stolen and eaten, but instead was asked for and given with a blessing adding to humanity the will power and capability to continually make good moral choices making the weight of responsibility for moral choices a light burden.

Morally knowledge and culpability is a fundamental change. We ascribe morality to nothing else in the universe. a rock is a-moral neither good nor bad nor is it possible for it to be good or bad. We do not fault plants for growing where we don't want them, nor wild beasts for attacking people. We may shoot a shark that has bitten a surfer out of a sense of protection and safety, but there is no more moral outrage that a shark did such a thing than if the surfer had been caught in a rip tide.

The full results of that undesigned for moral culpability, and resulting consequences was a great fall indeed.
Leugen9001
Posts: 495
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7/10/2015 5:18:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/30/2013 8:46:27 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com...

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral sense equal to God"s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our fall and all of us inheriting our forefather"s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com...

"They prove the loss not only of innocence but of original righteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God."

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL

The quotes from Ezekiel and Deuteronomy state that people should not be punished for the sins of their ancestors. The fall of Eden states that people became sinful because of their ancestors. Since the people actually became sinful themselves, G-d had the right to punish them, and their punishments would not be for the sins of their ancestors, but for the sins they have committed by themselves because of their ancestors.
:) nac
Harikrish
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7/10/2015 8:47:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Christianity was an improvement on Judaism and Islam the most modern of the 3 big religions should be placed at the top as religions go.
GreatestIam
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7/10/2015 9:05:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2015 11:01:53 PM, tearfangf wrote:
re: OP
I'll note that the setup of the question is awkward. There is more than one Jewish position just as there is more than one Christian perspective. And since they both share the same Eden text a good amount of overlap and shared interpretations should be expected.

I'll opine that both are partially right.

The elevation view is right in the sense that it sees knowledge of good and evil as a good thing. It is truly a God like ability.
The loss of innocence view is also right in the sense that with moral knowledge comes moral responsibility, and that humanity, really, truly, sucks when it comes to making good moral choices. If history teaches us anything, it is that humanity sucks at making good moral choices.

A more complete view
The story essentially portrays humanity's acquisition of moral knowledge as theft. The 'tree and its fruit' were God's and He didn't give it to us, yet we took it anyways. The story of Eden is a story of humans who were not designed to make moral choices, stealing the amazing wondrous knowledge of good and evil, and in so doing becoming responsible for moral choices. Because humanity sucks at making moral choices, that responsibility has been a disaster for humanity. The story does attempt speculation of what would have happened, but it is entirely reasonable to postulate a scenario where the forbidden fruit was not stolen and eaten, but instead was asked for and given with a blessing adding to humanity the will power and capability to continually make good moral choices making the weight of responsibility for moral choices a light burden.

Morally knowledge and culpability is a fundamental change. We ascribe morality to nothing else in the universe. a rock is a-moral neither good nor bad nor is it possible for it to be good or bad. We do not fault plants for growing where we don't want them, nor wild beasts for attacking people. We may shoot a shark that has bitten a surfer out of a sense of protection and safety, but there is no more moral outrage that a shark did such a thing than if the surfer had been caught in a rip tide.

The full results of that undesigned for moral culpability, and resulting consequences was a great fall indeed.

So you like the Christian interpretation better than what the actual authors of the story liked. You think that mankind should have remained dumb and blind and without a moral sense like all the other animals that we call dumb animals.

How do you justify that in terms of this. quote.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Can mankind be perfect like a God with a moral sense without gaining that moral sense from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

Bear in mind that every religion and government tries hard to instil a moral sense into it's people.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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7/10/2015 9:08:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 5:18:46 AM, Leugen9001 wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:46:27 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com...

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral sense equal to God"s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our fall and all of us inheriting our forefather"s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com...

"They prove the loss not only of innocence but of original righteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God."

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL

The quotes from Ezekiel and Deuteronomy state that people should not be punished for the sins of their ancestors. The fall of Eden states that people became sinful because of their ancestors. Since the people actually became sinful themselves, G-d had the right to punish them, and their punishments would not be for the sins of their ancestors, but for the sins they have committed by themselves because of their ancestors.

I do not think God has a right to punish anyone.

Eve was correct in eating of the tree of knowledge and rejecting God.

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

1Peter 1:20 0 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

This indicates that Jesus had no choice.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That"s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it"s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women. They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

------------------------

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or " it"s all man"s fault".

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin. That being the case, for God to punish us for following the instincts and natures he put in us would be quite wrong.

Do you agree?

Regards
DL
Geogeer
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7/10/2015 6:43:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/30/2013 8:46:27 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com...

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral sense equal to God"s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our fall and all of us inheriting our forefather"s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com...

"They prove the loss not only of innocence but of original righteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God."

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

There are several ways to address this.

1) There are natural consequences to sin. Parents who divorce hurt their children. This affects them negatively. These children may not be able to form as strong of relationships or bond as tightly with their children.

2) Temporal sufferings, or death itself, are not however always a misfortune. They frequently prove a source of inconceivable blessings.

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL

Your argument is based upon the assumption that heaven is naturally owed to us. Christian theology would state that original sin changed the very nature of humanity. One who is in sin is spiritually dead (the second death Jesus refers to). That which is dead cannot give life. Thus every soul coming from these parents is likewise spiritually dead unless united into the body of Christ.

So is a soul entitled to heaven?
TheChristian
Posts: 1,031
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7/10/2015 7:32:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/30/2013 9:22:55 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:11:43 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:46:27 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com...

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral sense equal to God"s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our fall and all of us inheriting our forefather"s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com...

"They prove the loss not only of innocence but of original righteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God."

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL

The Jewish view for sure.. why god will punish me for adam sin?? did adam ask me before eating the apple or ask my father?? every person according to his deed that is rational but the problem is u cnot be a jew unless u born to a jewish mother salvetion only for the jewish race so again its same like christainty why god throw me to hell if i cant be a jew?? both r nonsense

Anyone can be Jewish. While Jews don't seek out converts, anyone who wants to can convert whenever they like.

Not that this matters though, Jews don't believe in this concept of "salvation". Jews don't believe that only Jews are able to go to Heaven.

So, as a Christian, I could go to Jewish Heaven?
airmax1227
Posts: 13,241
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7/10/2015 7:59:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 7:32:40 PM, TheChristian wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:22:55 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:11:43 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:46:27 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com...

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral sense equal to God"s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our fall and all of us inheriting our forefather"s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com...

"They prove the loss not only of innocence but of original righteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God."

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL

The Jewish view for sure.. why god will punish me for adam sin?? did adam ask me before eating the apple or ask my father?? every person according to his deed that is rational but the problem is u cnot be a jew unless u born to a jewish mother salvetion only for the jewish race so again its same like christainty why god throw me to hell if i cant be a jew?? both r nonsense

Anyone can be Jewish. While Jews don't seek out converts, anyone who wants to can convert whenever they like.

Not that this matters though, Jews don't believe in this concept of "salvation". Jews don't believe that only Jews are able to go to Heaven.

So, as a Christian, I could go to Jewish Heaven?

haha wow a response to a post I made 1.5 years ago... well fair enough then.

While some Jews may respond to this a bit differently, I (a Jew with a lot of formal background in this) will reply as follows:

Jews don't believe in the Christian-type concept of Heaven or Hell as some type of binary "Torture" or "Paradise" place. Jews also tend not to believe in the version you just alluded to as being exclusive to some type of belief system (I.E, only Christians go to Heaven) or as a segregated system (Jew Heaven, Christian Heaven).

So no, you couldn't go to "Jew Heaven" (because it doesn't exist), but you could (per the beliefs of Judaism) go to a nice place after death if you are a good person regardless of what religion you happen to believe in - assuming any of this is true - and in direct contrast to the Christian view.
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TheChristian
Posts: 1,031
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7/10/2015 9:18:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/10/2015 7:59:02 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 7/10/2015 7:32:40 PM, TheChristian wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:22:55 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 11/30/2013 9:11:43 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 11/30/2013 8:46:27 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
Who was correct, Jews or Christians? Was Eden our elevation or our fall?

The Jewish view. http://www.mrrena.com...

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue"

In a nutshell, the Jews saw man acquiring a moral sense equal to God"s, --- as man being elevated.
Gen 3; 22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

The Christian view sees the same story and preaches our fall and all of us inheriting our forefather"s sin. http://www.biblegateway.com...

"They prove the loss not only of innocence but of original righteousness, and, with it, of the favour and fellowship of God."

The Bible seems to favor the Jewish view.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Whose view is more intelligent and moral and why?

Regards
DL

The Jewish view for sure.. why god will punish me for adam sin?? did adam ask me before eating the apple or ask my father?? every person according to his deed that is rational but the problem is u cnot be a jew unless u born to a jewish mother salvetion only for the jewish race so again its same like christainty why god throw me to hell if i cant be a jew?? both r nonsense

Anyone can be Jewish. While Jews don't seek out converts, anyone who wants to can convert whenever they like.

Not that this matters though, Jews don't believe in this concept of "salvation". Jews don't believe that only Jews are able to go to Heaven.

So, as a Christian, I could go to Jewish Heaven?

haha wow a response to a post I made 1.5 years ago... well fair enough then.

While some Jews may respond to this a bit differently, I (a Jew with a lot of formal background in this) will reply as follows:

Jews don't believe in the Christian-type concept of Heaven or Hell as some type of binary "Torture" or "Paradise" place. Jews also tend not to believe in the version you just alluded to as being exclusive to some type of belief system (I.E, only Christians go to Heaven) or as a segregated system (Jew Heaven, Christian Heaven).

So no, you couldn't go to "Jew Heaven" (because it doesn't exist), but you could (per the beliefs of Judaism) go to a nice place after death if you are a good person regardless of what religion you happen to believe in - assuming any of this is true - and in direct contrast to the Christian view.

I could live with that.