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If jesus is God

Somecrap
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12/1/2013 10:59:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
mattew 12:28 - 29
"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the most important of all?"Jesus answered, "The most important is, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

jew asked him, this jew doesnt know anything about the trinity father son and holy ghost he is following the OT so it was good opportunity to educate him and teach him about trinity if at all.

secondly jesus said "our lord" how on earth he says our and at the same time he is God?? god has a god?

now look at this mark 10:17-21
"Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.You know the commandments "Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.""And he said to him, "Teacher, all these I have kept from my youth."And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."

1 once again he is talking to jew he doesnt know trinity. he must teach him about it (if he was teaching that...)
2 jesus says why u call me good there is one good and that is "GOD ALONE".
3 follow the commandments and give to the poor and then u will have treasure in heaven. there is not trinity and other stuff there.
If u eat u excrete it cant be helped
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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12/1/2013 11:05:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 10:59:19 PM, Somecrap wrote:
mattew 12:28 - 29
"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the most important of all?"Jesus answered, "The most important is, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

jew asked him, this jew doesnt know anything about the trinity father son and holy ghost he is following the OT so it was good opportunity to educate him and teach him about trinity if at all.

secondly jesus said "our lord" how on earth he says our and at the same time he is God?? god has a god?

now look at this mark 10:17-21
"Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.You know the commandments "Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.""And he said to him, "Teacher, all these I have kept from my youth."And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."

1 once again he is talking to jew he doesnt know trinity. he must teach him about it (if he was teaching that...)
2 jesus says why u call me good there is one good and that is "GOD ALONE".
3 follow the commandments and give to the poor and then u will have treasure in heaven. there is not trinity and other stuff there.

Thank you for showing how messed up and contradictory this religion BS is.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
Somecrap
Posts: 119
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12/1/2013 11:09:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 11:05:32 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 12/1/2013 10:59:19 PM, Somecrap wrote:
mattew 12:28 - 29
"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the most important of all?"Jesus answered, "The most important is, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

jew asked him, this jew doesnt know anything about the trinity father son and holy ghost he is following the OT so it was good opportunity to educate him and teach him about trinity if at all.

secondly jesus said "our lord" how on earth he says our and at the same time he is God?? god has a god?

now look at this mark 10:17-21
"Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.You know the commandments "Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.""And he said to him, "Teacher, all these I have kept from my youth."And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."

1 once again he is talking to jew he doesnt know trinity. he must teach him about it (if he was teaching that...)
2 jesus says why u call me good there is one good and that is "GOD ALONE".
3 follow the commandments and give to the poor and then u will have treasure in heaven. there is not trinity and other stuff there.

Thank you for showing how messed up and contradictory this religion BS is.

lol lets see what christians say about it maybe im wrong ~:D
If u eat u excrete it cant be helped
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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12/1/2013 11:12:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago

Thank you for showing how messed up and contradictory this religion BS is.

lol lets see what christians say about it maybe im wrong ~:D

What are they going to say? The bible says nothing about the Trinity. It was a later invention.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
Somecrap
Posts: 119
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12/1/2013 11:19:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 11:12:00 PM, Lordgrae wrote:

Thank you for showing how messed up and contradictory this religion BS is.

lol lets see what christians say about it maybe im wrong ~:D

What are they going to say? The bible says nothing about the Trinity. It was a later invention.

perhaps some bishop will enter this furom..prepare for the shock :D nah just kidding there r SO many statements of jesus emphasizing that he is not god but this is enough said i think ^^
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alvisd
Posts: 4
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12/1/2013 11:44:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I am a catholic and I believe, to tell you the truth I don't know if it appears in the bible or not,but I do believe it. This is because I have faith in him since I have asked him for help and I have received it. I don't know, like, I'm somewhat there with you guys on how can you believe, since you do not have proof at all, I mean its hard to when you can see science happening right. You will see energy transform and now we can make things fly, create, things, and destroy so some of you feel, why believe. I get that I mean its hard, though this is unless you have witnessed it like I have and then it just becomes easy you don't forget when these things happen to you. So I can't give you the answer since I haven't read the bible thoroughly maybe someone else can. I do have one question for all of you though what happens if it is true, I mean you've got to admit its weird how most of the stuff the bible says will happen is happening and yeah I guess you can come up with an excuse for everything, but then what happens if its all true. My question is if its not hurting you in any way why not believe I mean if its real and you were faithful then you go to heaven, so can anybody provide a real answer to why just not believe.
Somecrap
Posts: 119
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12/2/2013 12:06:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 11:44:51 PM, alvisd wrote:
I am a catholic and I believe, to tell you the truth I don't know if it appears in the bible or not,but I do believe it. This is because I have faith in him since I have asked him for help and I have received it. I don't know, like, I'm somewhat there with you guys on how can you believe, since you do not have proof at all, I mean its hard to when you can see science happening right. You will see energy transform and now we can make things fly, create, things, and destroy so some of you feel, why believe. I get that I mean its hard, though this is unless you have witnessed it like I have and then it just becomes easy you don't forget when these things happen to you. So I can't give you the answer since I haven't read the bible thoroughly maybe someone else can. I do have one question for all of you though what happens if it is true, I mean you've got to admit its weird how most of the stuff the bible says will happen is happening and yeah I guess you can come up with an excuse for everything, but then what happens if its all true. My question is if its not hurting you in any way why not believe I mean if its real and you were faithful then you go to heaven, so can anybody provide a real answer to why just not believe.

dude im not athiest and like me every religious people have their own experience and witnesses, so we dealing with facts... dont get me worng im not saying bible or chrsitainity r wrong, just proving from the bible from the deeds and sayings of jesus he is not god according ot the bible..
If u eat u excrete it cant be helped
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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12/2/2013 1:55:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
"At first the Christian faith was not Trinitarian"It was not so in the apostolic and sub-apostolic ages, as reflected in the New Testament and other early Christian writings" (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, ed. James Hastings, 1922, Vol. 12, p. 461).

&

"The trinitarian doctrine is pagan. The idea of three gods is paganism and comes from polythiesm and pantheism. The overwhelming majority of trinitarian scholars admit the trinity is not Biblical, did not exist in the Apostolic age, and was developed over a period of 295 years. It appears to be the basic doctrine of the gnostic sect called the Nicolatines in Revelation chapters 2 and 3. While it is true that many trinitarians confess the trinity doctrine came from paganism, they elect to believe it, remain in it, because that is where their employment is. (Source: http://www.jesus-messiah.com...)

&

"The propositions constitutive of the dogma of the Trinity were not drawn from the New Testament and could not be expressed in New Testament terms. They were the products of reason speculating on a revelation to faith. . . they were only formed through centuries of effort, only elaborated by the aid of the conceptions and formulated in the terms of Greek and Roman metaphysics." (Source: Encyclopedia Britannica)

&

The late Dr. W R Matthews, Dean of St Paul's Cathedral, wrote:

"It must be admitted by everyone who has the rudiments of an historical sense that the doctrine of the Trinity, as a doctrine, formed no part of the original message. St Paul knew it not, and would have been unable to understand the meaning of the terms used in the theological formula on which the Church ultimately agreed". (27)

Or more recently:

"In order to understand the doctrine of the Trinity it is necessary to understand that the doctrine is a development, and why it developed. ... It is a waste of time to attempt to read Trinitarian doctrine directly off the pages of the New Testament". (28)

27. "God in Christian Thought and Experience", p.180
28. A & R Hanson: "Reasonable Belief, A survey of the Christian Faith, p.171-173,1980
Somecrap
Posts: 119
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12/2/2013 2:56:40 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/2/2013 1:55:08 AM, Composer wrote:
"At first the Christian faith was not Trinitarian"It was not so in the apostolic and sub-apostolic ages, as reflected in the New Testament and other early Christian writings" (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, ed. James Hastings, 1922, Vol. 12, p. 461).

&

"The trinitarian doctrine is pagan. The idea of three gods is paganism and comes from polythiesm and pantheism. The overwhelming majority of trinitarian scholars admit the trinity is not Biblical, did not exist in the Apostolic age, and was developed over a period of 295 years. It appears to be the basic doctrine of the gnostic sect called the Nicolatines in Revelation chapters 2 and 3. While it is true that many trinitarians confess the trinity doctrine came from paganism, they elect to believe it, remain in it, because that is where their employment is. (Source: http://www.jesus-messiah.com...)

&

"The propositions constitutive of the dogma of the Trinity were not drawn from the New Testament and could not be expressed in New Testament terms. They were the products of reason speculating on a revelation to faith. . . they were only formed through centuries of effort, only elaborated by the aid of the conceptions and formulated in the terms of Greek and Roman metaphysics." (Source: Encyclopedia Britannica)

&

The late Dr. W R Matthews, Dean of St Paul's Cathedral, wrote:

"It must be admitted by everyone who has the rudiments of an historical sense that the doctrine of the Trinity, as a doctrine, formed no part of the original message. St Paul knew it not, and would have been unable to understand the meaning of the terms used in the theological formula on which the Church ultimately agreed". (27)

Or more recently:

"In order to understand the doctrine of the Trinity it is necessary to understand that the doctrine is a development, and why it developed. ... It is a waste of time to attempt to read Trinitarian doctrine directly off the pages of the New Testament". (28)

27. "God in Christian Thought and Experience", p.180
28. A & R Hanson: "Reasonable Belief, A survey of the Christian Faith, p.171-173,1980

Yep its from paganism, good site up there explaining the origins and stuff from judaism but christians do not believe this so i use the bible... anyway it odd how god for thousands of years sent messagers and sudenly change his mind and comes as a man in the last message... condradicts the old testmant all the way.. nevertheless good stuff u brought here.
If u eat u excrete it cant be helped
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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12/2/2013 3:11:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The only reason the poor muslims are so obsessed with jesus and christianity and judaism is because their founder, muhammad, made the claim that the religion he started had existed for hundreds of thousands of years.

Yes, I know, anyone with even a modicum of intelligence would reject such a ridiculous claim out of hand, unfortunately muslims consider muhammad to be one of their three gods and so accept it unconditionally.

Oh well!!!!!
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Somecrap
Posts: 119
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12/2/2013 5:16:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/2/2013 3:11:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
The only reason the poor muslims are so obsessed with jesus and christianity and judaism is because their founder, muhammad, made the claim that the religion he started had existed for hundreds of thousands of years.

Yes, I know, anyone with even a modicum of intelligence would reject such a ridiculous claim out of hand, unfortunately muslims consider muhammad to be one of their three gods and so accept it unconditionally.

Oh well!!!!!

yeah sure
If u eat u excrete it cant be helped
Somecrap
Posts: 119
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12/2/2013 5:19:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/2/2013 3:11:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
The only reason the poor muslims are so obsessed with jesus and christianity and judaism is because their founder, muhammad, made the claim that the religion he started had existed for hundreds of thousands of years.

Yes, I know, anyone with even a modicum of intelligence would reject such a ridiculous claim out of hand, unfortunately muslims consider muhammad to be one of their three gods and so accept it unconditionally.

Oh well!!!!!

D
If u eat u excrete it cant be helped
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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12/2/2013 5:20:03 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/2/2013 5:16:45 AM, Somecrap wrote:
At 12/2/2013 3:11:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
The only reason the poor muslims are so obsessed with jesus and christianity and judaism is because their founder, muhammad, made the claim that the religion he started had existed for hundreds of thousands of years.

Yes, I know, anyone with even a modicum of intelligence would reject such a ridiculous claim out of hand, unfortunately muslims consider muhammad to be one of their three gods and so accept it unconditionally.

Oh well!!!!!

yeah sure

You've experienced an epiphany? How great for you.

Join the real world and welcome.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Chase200mph
Posts: 332
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12/2/2013 7:36:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 10:59:19 PM, Somecrap wrote:
mattew 12:28 - 29
"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the most important of all?"Jesus answered, "The most important is, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

jew asked him, this jew doesnt know anything about the trinity father son and holy ghost he is following the OT so it was good opportunity to educate him and teach him about trinity if at all.

secondly jesus said "our lord" how on earth he says our and at the same time he is God?? god has a god?

now look at this mark 10:17-21
"Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.You know the commandments "Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.""And he said to him, "Teacher, all these I have kept from my youth."And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."

1 once again he is talking to jew he doesnt know trinity. he must teach him about it (if he was teaching that...)
2 jesus says why u call me good there is one good and that is "GOD ALONE".
3 follow the commandments and give to the poor and then u will have treasure in heaven. there is not trinity and other stuff there.

....IF, Jesus lived, and if he was god, then he raped his 12 year old mother.
While an otherwise educated intelligent person may still believe in the bible, that person would have no educated or intellectual reason to do so.
islamandworld
Posts: 21
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12/2/2013 12:00:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 11:44:51 PM, alvisd wrote:
I am a catholic and I believe, to tell you the truth I don't know if it appears in the bible or not,but I do believe it. This is because I have faith in him since I have asked him for help and I have received it. I don't know, like, I'm somewhat there with you guys on how can you believe, since you do not have proof at all, I mean its hard to when you can see science happening right. You will see energy transform and now we can make things fly, create, things, and destroy so some of you feel, why believe. I get that I mean its hard, though this is unless you have witnessed it like I have and then it just becomes easy you don't forget when these things happen to you. So I can't give you the answer since I haven't read the bible thoroughly maybe someone else can. I do have one question for all of you though what happens if it is true, I mean you've got to admit its weird how most of the stuff the bible says will happen is happening and yeah I guess you can come up with an excuse for everything, but then what happens if its all true. My question is if its not hurting you in any way why not believe I mean if its real and you were faithful then you go to heaven, so can anybody provide a real answer to why just not believe.

Brother!Its good that you are a believer.And if you say that whatever bible says its coming true.And I give you hundreds of SCIENTIFIC ERRORS and prophecies
1.36:30 Therefore thus saith the LORD of Jehoiakim king of Judah; He shall have none to sit upon the throne of David: and his dead body shall be cast out in the day to the heat, and in the night to the frost
it says that no one will be able to sit on the throne of david again after jehoiakim BUT
24:15 And he carried away Jehoiachin to Babylon, and the king's mother, and the king's wives, and his officers, and the mighty of the land, those carried he into captivity from Jerusalem to Babylon.

24:16 And all the men of might, even seven thousand, and craftsmen and smiths a thousand, all that were strong and apt for war, even them the king of Babylon
brought captive to Babylon.

2 .7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel{according to Christians it is jesus christ]
But immanuel is not mentioned in the whole bible ...but in place jesus christ is mentioned

UNFILLED PROPHECY
islamandworld
Posts: 21
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12/2/2013 12:06:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/2/2013 3:11:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
The only reason the poor muslims are so obsessed with jesus and christianity and judaism is because their founder, muhammad, made the claim that the religion he started had existed for hundreds of thousands of years.

Yes, I know, anyone with even a modicum of intelligence would reject such a ridiculous claim out of hand, unfortunately muslims consider muhammad to be one of their three gods and so accept it unconditionally.

Oh well!!!!!

hey!WAKE UP...our god is allah the one,and muhammad was just a prophet or messenger of allah NOT GOD.And how could you claim such statement without proof..WAKE UP
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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12/2/2013 1:15:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 10:59:19 PM, Somecrap wrote:
mattew 12:28 - 29
"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the most important of all?"Jesus answered, "The most important is, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

jew asked him, this jew doesnt know anything about the trinity father son and holy ghost he is following the OT so it was good opportunity to educate him and teach him about trinity if at all.

secondly jesus said "our lord" how on earth he says our and at the same time he is God?? god has a god?

now look at this mark 10:17-21
"Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.You know the commandments "Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.""And he said to him, "Teacher, all these I have kept from my youth."And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."

1 once again he is talking to jew he doesnt know trinity. he must teach him about it (if he was teaching that...)
2 jesus says why u call me good there is one good and that is "GOD ALONE".
3 follow the commandments and give to the poor and then u will have treasure in heaven. there is not trinity and other stuff there.

Somecrap,

You may be right that Jesus is not God, but these are just terrible arguments for your point of view. The first a weak argument from silence. The second is a failure to understand the doctrine of the Trinity. The third is a misunderstanding of what Jesus said and a failure to take what he said to its logical conclusion.

I hope you come up with something better should you decide to debate a Trinitarian on this issue.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
JayLewis
Posts: 41
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12/2/2013 8:19:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The phrase that you cited in Matthew 12 is originally from Deuteronomy 6. It is called the Shema and still recited by orthodox Jews today. It reads: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." This statement was made to show the uniqueness of the God of Israel from the pantheon of gods from the surrounding lands. Interestingly though, in the most famous statement of God's unity the Hebrew authors used a plural name for God, Adonai Eloheinu. This stems from the Hebrew word, Elohim, which is used 2,570 times in the Old Testament; including Genesis 1:1. The ancient Hebrews used a plural noun to proclaim the unity of God. This is in accord with the Christian doctrine of the trinity. Christians hold to the unity of God, while also confessing the tri-unity of Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Therefore, though the word "trinity" may have been penned after the Bible was written. The idea of one triune God has been with us since Genesis 1:1.

Consider Genesis 1:26 along with the other verses you mentioned. "Then God (Elohim) said, "Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness." If God was only one distinct person, why would the word "our" and not "my" be used?
s-anthony
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12/2/2013 10:02:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/2/2013 8:19:45 PM, JayLewis wrote:
The phrase that you cited in Matthew 12 is originally from Deuteronomy 6. It is called the Shema and still recited by orthodox Jews today. It reads: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." This statement was made to show the uniqueness of the God of Israel from the pantheon of gods from the surrounding lands. Interestingly though, in the most famous statement of God's unity the Hebrew authors used a plural name for God, Adonai Eloheinu. This stems from the Hebrew word, Elohim, which is used 2,570 times in the Old Testament; including Genesis 1:1. The ancient Hebrews used a plural noun to proclaim the unity of God. This is in accord with the Christian doctrine of the trinity. Christians hold to the unity of God, while also confessing the tri-unity of Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Therefore, though the word "trinity" may have been penned after the Bible was written. The idea of one triune God has been with us since Genesis 1:1.

Consider Genesis 1:26 along with the other verses you mentioned. "Then God (Elohim) said, "Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness." If God was only one distinct person, why would the word "our" and not "my" be used?

Ask any Orthodox Jew, if that's what Elohim means. I bet money, you'll only ask once.

The word elohim comes from the root word el, the chief of the Canaanite deities, and means the family of El . It has, absolutely, nothing to do, in custom or linguistics, with the Christian Trinity.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/2/2013 10:22:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 10:59:19 PM, Somecrap wrote:
mattew 12:28 - 29
"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the most important of all?"Jesus answered, "The most important is, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

jew asked him, this jew doesnt know anything about the trinity father son and holy ghost he is following the OT so it was good opportunity to educate him and teach him about trinity if at all.

secondly jesus said "our lord" how on earth he says our and at the same time he is God?? god has a god?

now look at this mark 10:17-21
"Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.You know the commandments "Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.""And he said to him, "Teacher, all these I have kept from my youth."And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."

1 once again he is talking to jew he doesnt know trinity. he must teach him about it (if he was teaching that...)
2 jesus says why u call me good there is one good and that is "GOD ALONE".
3 follow the commandments and give to the poor and then u will have treasure in heaven. there is not trinity and other stuff there.

English wasn't spoken 2,000 years ago so there wasn't any Jesus back then. However, there were bodies called saints 2,000 years ago who were used by our Creator to witness God's hidden knowledge within their mind. From this hidden knowledge, they had to testify in writing and spoken words from their own language as God put these words in their mind to write and speak with. God is in total control of everything since He's our Creator. Saints and prophets were created as His voice, called the Word of God. This is why we saints say we and God are one. Everything else that was created was spoken into existence through God's voice, which is who we saints and prophet are. We know this spoken Word is energy today because we're using energy every day now. Energy is information and all information was spoken into existence through the us, the voice of God. No one can see energy so this is the invisible Heavenly Kingdom that all the early saints spoke from. The visible world we call Earth comes from processed energy and is seen on the retina's of our eyes, which are just like miniature video screens. We think we see distant stars and other things on this planet but they are only illusions that make us believe they are real. This is called a defined world that came from the invisible energy which is who we really are in the mind of our Creator.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/2/2013 10:32:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/2/2013 8:19:45 PM, JayLewis wrote:
The phrase that you cited in Matthew 12 is originally from Deuteronomy 6. It is called the Shema and still recited by orthodox Jews today. It reads: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." This statement was made to show the uniqueness of the God of Israel from the pantheon of gods from the surrounding lands. Interestingly though, in the most famous statement of God's unity the Hebrew authors used a plural name for God, Adonai Eloheinu. This stems from the Hebrew word, Elohim, which is used 2,570 times in the Old Testament; including Genesis 1:1. The ancient Hebrews used a plural noun to proclaim the unity of God. This is in accord with the Christian doctrine of the trinity. Christians hold to the unity of God, while also confessing the tri-unity of Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Therefore, though the word "trinity" may have been penned after the Bible was written. The idea of one triune God has been with us since Genesis 1:1.

Consider Genesis 1:26 along with the other verses you mentioned. "Then God (Elohim) said, "Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness." If God was only one distinct person, why would the word "our" and not "my" be used?

Our Creator created HIs voice called the Word of God in the beginning. This is His first energy making machine and from their, everything else was created as wavelengths of energy, or vibrations if you want to call us that. So we are God's thought converted into vibrations and from these vibrations, we get the illusions of an Earthly Kingdom, or defined world from processed energy, and all the senses that we use to sense these vibrations with.

The Father is our invisible Creator. His Voice is called the Son of God, Word of God, Kingdom of God, Heavenly Kingdom, Zion, Jacob, Light, Eternal Life, Holy Spirit, etc.

So this means there's only ONE Creator with a voice to speak with.
Somecrap
Posts: 119
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12/2/2013 11:31:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/2/2013 1:15:12 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 12/1/2013 10:59:19 PM, Somecrap wrote:
mattew 12:28 - 29
"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the most important of all?"Jesus answered, "The most important is, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

jew asked him, this jew doesnt know anything about the trinity father son and holy ghost he is following the OT so it was good opportunity to educate him and teach him about trinity if at all.

secondly jesus said "our lord" how on earth he says our and at the same time he is God?? god has a god?

now look at this mark 10:17-21
"Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.You know the commandments "Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.""And he said to him, "Teacher, all these I have kept from my youth."And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."

1 once again he is talking to jew he doesnt know trinity. he must teach him about it (if he was teaching that...)
2 jesus says why u call me good there is one good and that is "GOD ALONE".
3 follow the commandments and give to the poor and then u will have treasure in heaven. there is not trinity and other stuff there.

Somecrap,

You may be right that Jesus is not God, but these are just terrible arguments for your point of view. The first a weak argument from silence. The second is a failure to understand the doctrine of the Trinity. The third is a misunderstanding of what Jesus said and a failure to take what he said to its logical conclusion.

I hope you come up with something better should you decide to debate a Trinitarian on this issue.

dude why its terrible?? expalin why jesus didnt inform the jew if he was come to teach trinity its not big deal its foundation of christanity and i understanding better than christains they dont understand what is trinity at frist they say its mystery good luck to them.
If u eat u excrete it cant be helped
Somecrap
Posts: 119
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12/2/2013 11:45:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/2/2013 8:19:45 PM, JayLewis wrote:
The phrase that you cited in Matthew 12 is originally from Deuteronomy 6. It is called the Shema and still recited by orthodox Jews today. It reads: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." This statement was made to show the uniqueness of the God of Israel from the pantheon of gods from the surrounding lands. Interestingly though, in the most famous statement of God's unity the Hebrew authors used a plural name for God, Adonai Eloheinu. This stems from the Hebrew word, Elohim, which is used 2,570 times in the Old Testament; including Genesis 1:1. The ancient Hebrews used a plural noun to proclaim the unity of God. This is in accord with the Christian doctrine of the trinity. Christians hold to the unity of God, while also confessing the tri-unity of Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Therefore, though the word "trinity" may have been penned after the Bible was written. The idea of one triune God has been with us since Genesis 1:1.

Consider Genesis 1:26 along with the other verses you mentioned. "Then God (Elohim) said, "Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness." If God was only one distinct person, why would the word "our" and not "my" be used?

your problem is u dont know hebrow as a language... in hebrow there is 2 types of plural - 1 nubmers 2 - showing respect,majesty.. in OLD TESTMENT ALOHIM "ale" = god "him" = plural of respect not trinity in arbic (sister languages) the same thing is exist.. in the quran the same is occurring- the word "we" coming after the word God but is there is not triniry in quran its for respect for example:
We did reveal the Torah (Tawrat), wherein is guidance and a light ... Q5:44
for 1400 years no non-muslim arab came to the muslims and said there is more than 1 god..
If u eat u excrete it cant be helped
JayLewis
Posts: 41
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12/2/2013 11:47:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/2/2013 10:02:25 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 12/2/2013 8:19:45 PM, JayLewis wrote:
The phrase that you cited in Matthew 12 is originally from Deuteronomy 6. It is called the Shema and still recited by orthodox Jews today. It reads: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." This statement was made to show the uniqueness of the God of Israel from the pantheon of gods from the surrounding lands. Interestingly though, in the most famous statement of God's unity the Hebrew authors used a plural name for God, Adonai Eloheinu. This stems from the Hebrew word, Elohim, which is used 2,570 times in the Old Testament; including Genesis 1:1. The ancient Hebrews used a plural noun to proclaim the unity of God. This is in accord with the Christian doctrine of the trinity. Christians hold to the unity of God, while also confessing the tri-unity of Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Therefore, though the word "trinity" may have been penned after the Bible was written. The idea of one triune God has been with us since Genesis 1:1.

Consider Genesis 1:26 along with the other verses you mentioned. "Then God (Elohim) said, "Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness." If God was only one distinct person, why would the word "our" and not "my" be used?

Ask any Orthodox Jew, if that's what Elohim means. I bet money, you'll only ask once.

The word elohim comes from the root word el, the chief of the Canaanite deities, and means the family of El . It has, absolutely, nothing to do, in custom or linguistics, with the Christian Trinity.

You're right about the word "El". It is sometimes associated with Dagon, the main god of the Canaanite pantheon. However, this word was not exclusive to the canaanites. It is a generic term for deity, similar to the english word "god". Dagon's wife was Elat, which just means "goddess". Therefore, the word "el" does not mean the Israelites worshipped Dagon, it just means they worshipped a "god".
When referencing the God of the Israelites, more personal names are used, such as Adonai and YHWH. Often the phrase, the Lord our God (adonai elohim) is used in Scripture. This is to define which God the author is talking about. We have similar structure in the english language.
However, the phrase "Elohim" is unique to Hebrew. It is not simply translated as "gods" or "family of god", it is rather a plural form used to reference a singular deity, uniquely used to refer to the covenant God of Israel.
"The name Elohim is unique to Hebraic thinking: it occurs only in Hebrew and in no other ancient Semitic language. The masculine plural ending does not mean "gods" when referring to the true God of Israel, since the name is mainly used with singular verb forms and with adjectives and pronouns in the singular (e.g., see Gen. 1:26). However, considering the Hashalush HaKadosh (Trinity), the form indeed allows for the plurality within the Godhead." - David Parsons, hebrew scholar
Somecrap
Posts: 119
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12/2/2013 11:49:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/2/2013 10:02:25 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 12/2/2013 8:19:45 PM, JayLewis wrote:
The phrase that you cited in Matthew 12 is originally from Deuteronomy 6. It is called the Shema and still recited by orthodox Jews today. It reads: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." This statement was made to show the uniqueness of the God of Israel from the pantheon of gods from the surrounding lands. Interestingly though, in the most famous statement of God's unity the Hebrew authors used a plural name for God, Adonai Eloheinu. This stems from the Hebrew word, Elohim, which is used 2,570 times in the Old Testament; including Genesis 1:1. The ancient Hebrews used a plural noun to proclaim the unity of God. This is in accord with the Christian doctrine of the trinity. Christians hold to the unity of God, while also confessing the tri-unity of Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Therefore, though the word "trinity" may have been penned after the Bible was written. The idea of one triune God has been with us since Genesis 1:1.

Consider Genesis 1:26 along with the other verses you mentioned. "Then God (Elohim) said, "Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness." If God was only one distinct person, why would the word "our" and not "my" be used?

Ask any Orthodox Jew, if that's what Elohim means. I bet money, you'll only ask once.

The word elohim comes from the root word el, the chief of the Canaanite deities, and means the family of El . It has, absolutely, nothing to do, in custom or linguistics, with the Christian Trinity.

i know hebrow language and i guess u dont know.. see the same answer i gave to JayLewis
If u eat u excrete it cant be helped
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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12/3/2013 5:39:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
IF jebus = a Supernatural god, then should another one ever appear outside the pages of a Story book; then we humans know how to get rid of it = crucify it! (apparently that worked before?)
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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12/3/2013 8:03:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/2/2013 11:45:41 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 12/2/2013 8:19:45 PM, JayLewis wrote:
The phrase that you cited in Matthew 12 is originally from Deuteronomy 6. It is called the Shema and still recited by orthodox Jews today. It reads: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." This statement was made to show the uniqueness of the God of Israel from the pantheon of gods from the surrounding lands. Interestingly though, in the most famous statement of God's unity the Hebrew authors used a plural name for God, Adonai Eloheinu. This stems from the Hebrew word, Elohim, which is used 2,570 times in the Old Testament; including Genesis 1:1. The ancient Hebrews used a plural noun to proclaim the unity of God. This is in accord with the Christian doctrine of the trinity. Christians hold to the unity of God, while also confessing the tri-unity of Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Therefore, though the word "trinity" may have been penned after the Bible was written. The idea of one triune God has been with us since Genesis 1:1.

Consider Genesis 1:26 along with the other verses you mentioned. "Then God (Elohim) said, "Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness." If God was only one distinct person, why would the word "our" and not "my" be used?

your problem is u dont know hebrow as a language... in hebrow there is 2 types of plural - 1 nubmers 2 - showing respect,majesty.. in OLD TESTMENT ALOHIM "ale" = god "him" = plural of respect not trinity in arbic (sister languages) the same thing is exist.. in the quran the same is occurring- the word "we" coming after the word God but is there is not triniry in quran its for respect for example:
We did reveal the Torah (Tawrat), wherein is guidance and a light ... Q5:44
for 1400 years no non-muslim arab came to the muslims and said there is more than 1 god..

Why would anybody bother?

Islam has it's own trinity. In order of worship is:
Muhammad
Koran
Allah.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
JayLewis
Posts: 41
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12/3/2013 4:08:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/2/2013 11:45:41 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 12/2/2013 8:19:45 PM, JayLewis wrote:
The phrase that you cited in Matthew 12 is originally from Deuteronomy 6. It is called the Shema and still recited by orthodox Jews today. It reads: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." This statement was made to show the uniqueness of the God of Israel from the pantheon of gods from the surrounding lands. Interestingly though, in the most famous statement of God's unity the Hebrew authors used a plural name for God, Adonai Eloheinu. This stems from the Hebrew word, Elohim, which is used 2,570 times in the Old Testament; including Genesis 1:1. The ancient Hebrews used a plural noun to proclaim the unity of God. This is in accord with the Christian doctrine of the trinity. Christians hold to the unity of God, while also confessing the tri-unity of Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Therefore, though the word "trinity" may have been penned after the Bible was written. The idea of one triune God has been with us since Genesis 1:1.

Consider Genesis 1:26 along with the other verses you mentioned. "Then God (Elohim) said, "Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness." If God was only one distinct person, why would the word "our" and not "my" be used?

your problem is u dont know hebrow as a language... in hebrow there is 2 types of plural - 1 nubmers 2 - showing respect,majesty.. in OLD TESTMENT ALOHIM "ale" = god "him" = plural of respect not trinity in arbic (sister languages) the same thing is exist.. in the quran the same is occurring- the word "we" coming after the word God but is there is not triniry in quran its for respect for example:
We did reveal the Torah (Tawrat), wherein is guidance and a light ... Q5:44
for 1400 years no non-muslim arab came to the muslims and said there is more than 1 god..

Actually, I know Hebrew well enough to see the uniqueness of the use of "Elohim". Elohim is a noun that is plural in form, yet singular in meaning. You're right in that the noun is not referring to a plurality of gods, rather to the God of Israel. Several times this grammatical tool is also used in the Old Testament. For example, Isaiah uses tsedaqoth (righteousness, plural) instead of tsedaqah in Isaiah 33:15.
Wilhelm Gesenius shows that "Elohim" is "almost invariably joined with a singular attribute", such as a singular adjective or verb. This is to show that Elohim is not a family of gods, rather one God.
Somecrap
Posts: 119
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12/4/2013 12:42:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/3/2013 8:03:25 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/2/2013 11:45:41 PM, Somecrap wrote:
At 12/2/2013 8:19:45 PM, JayLewis wrote:
The phrase that you cited in Matthew 12 is originally from Deuteronomy 6. It is called the Shema and still recited by orthodox Jews today. It reads: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." This statement was made to show the uniqueness of the God of Israel from the pantheon of gods from the surrounding lands. Interestingly though, in the most famous statement of God's unity the Hebrew authors used a plural name for God, Adonai Eloheinu. This stems from the Hebrew word, Elohim, which is used 2,570 times in the Old Testament; including Genesis 1:1. The ancient Hebrews used a plural noun to proclaim the unity of God. This is in accord with the Christian doctrine of the trinity. Christians hold to the unity of God, while also confessing the tri-unity of Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Therefore, though the word "trinity" may have been penned after the Bible was written. The idea of one triune God has been with us since Genesis 1:1.

Consider Genesis 1:26 along with the other verses you mentioned. "Then God (Elohim) said, "Let us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness." If God was only one distinct person, why would the word "our" and not "my" be used?

your problem is u dont know hebrow as a language... in hebrow there is 2 types of plural - 1 nubmers 2 - showing respect,majesty.. in OLD TESTMENT ALOHIM "ale" = god "him" = plural of respect not trinity in arbic (sister languages) the same thing is exist.. in the quran the same is occurring- the word "we" coming after the word God but is there is not triniry in quran its for respect for example:
We did reveal the Torah (Tawrat), wherein is guidance and a light ... Q5:44
for 1400 years no non-muslim arab came to the muslims and said there is more than 1 god..

Why would anybody bother?

Islam has it's own trinity. In order of worship is:
Muhammad
Koran
Allah.
If u eat u excrete it cant be helped
arabrab
Posts: 3
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12/4/2013 8:09:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/1/2013 10:59:19 PM, Somecrap wrote:
mattew 12:28 - 29
"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the most important of all?"Jesus answered, "The most important is, "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

jew asked him, this jew doesnt know anything about the trinity father son and holy ghost he is following the OT so it was good opportunity to educate him and teach him about trinity if at all.

secondly jesus said "our lord" how on earth he says our and at the same time he is God?? god has a god?

now look at this mark 10:17-21
"Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.You know the commandments "Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.""And he said to him, "Teacher, all these I have kept from my youth."And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, "You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."

1 once again he is talking to jew he doesnt know trinity. he must teach him about it (if he was teaching that...)
2 jesus says why u call me good there is one good and that is "GOD ALONE".
3 follow the commandments and give to the poor and then u will have treasure in heaven. there is not trinity and other stuff there.

Ah the man who cannot prove his own prophet was sent by allah is back! Let us see what Al Malek and Al Nur have to say about this topic.

Umm you are misquoting the Bible all over the place here.

Matthew 12:28 says the following:
28"But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Teaching about the trinity... Look at what Jesus says here.

"All these things spoke Jesus unto the multitude in PARABLES; and without a parable spoke He not unto them." Matt 13:34

"But without a PARABLE spoke He not unto them"" Mark 4:34

"This PARABLE spoke Jesus unto them; but they understood not what things they were which He spoke unto them." John 10:6

"And when He was alone, they that were about Him with the twelve asked of Him the parable. And He said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God, but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables.

"That seeing they may see, and not perceived: and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted and their sins should be forgiven them. And He said unto them, Know ye not this parable? And how then will you know all parables?" Mark 4:10-13

Jesus came for his chosen and his chosen will understand and hear his voice.

Jesus said, "You have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you." John 15:16

Jesus hid his meaning somecrap. But he gives signs of himself to the muslim community by calling himself Al Nur, Al Malek, Al Baeth,