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Describe a religious experience

Rational_Thinker9119
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12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/4/2013 3:08:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

Christians may have had religious experiences but they didn't have any experiences that us saints have. And that is to be thrown on the ground while our invisible Creator is changing the information ( energy ) that causes all His people to be deceived from knowing who they are within His mind. After having my body forced to the ground at least eight times in a 28 1/2 year period, God finally got me ready to witness His invisible knowledge within His mind ( also our mind ). Then He forces us saints to write and speak in our own language to learn about the past, present and future.

Christians can't understand what us saints have to go through in order to have God's knowledge revealed to us.
Rational_Thinker9119
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12/4/2013 3:16:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 3:08:19 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

Christians may have had religious experiences but they didn't have any experiences that us saints have. And that is to be thrown on the ground while our invisible Creator is changing the information ( energy ) that causes all His people to be deceived from knowing who they are within His mind. After having my body forced to the ground at least eight times in a 28 1/2 year period, God finally got me ready to witness His invisible knowledge within His mind ( also our mind ). Then He forces us saints to write and speak in our own language to learn about the past, present and future.

Christians can't understand what us saints have to go through in order to have God's knowledge revealed to us.

I'm sorry, perhaps I I wasn't clear enough. I would actually like an answer from someone who isn't bat sh*t crazy.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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12/4/2013 3:21:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

The idea of a spiritual experience (as taught in AA) or religious experience (as taught by some so-called Christian religions) is a farce. I wish I had a dollar for every time I was told, "I know it because I feel it." It's total BS. By such I could prove Holy Rollerism, Mormonism, Adventism - and witchcraft and voodoo.

It seems like baloney to you because that's what it is.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/4/2013 3:23:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 3:16:50 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:08:19 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

Christians may have had religious experiences but they didn't have any experiences that us saints have. And that is to be thrown on the ground while our invisible Creator is changing the information ( energy ) that causes all His people to be deceived from knowing who they are within His mind. After having my body forced to the ground at least eight times in a 28 1/2 year period, God finally got me ready to witness His invisible knowledge within His mind ( also our mind ). Then He forces us saints to write and speak in our own language to learn about the past, present and future.

Christians can't understand what us saints have to go through in order to have God's knowledge revealed to us.

I'm sorry, perhaps I I wasn't clear enough. I would actually like an answer from someone who isn't bat sh*t crazy.

Most Christians don't know who I AM, either.
Rational_Thinker9119
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12/4/2013 3:24:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 3:21:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

The idea of a spiritual experience (as taught in AA) or religious experience (as taught by some so-called Christian religions) is a farce. I wish I had a dollar for every time I was told, "I know it because I feel it." It's total BS. By such I could prove Holy Rollerism, Mormonism, Adventism - and witchcraft and voodoo.

It seems like baloney to you because that's what it is.

Fair enough, but aren't you Christian? Why do you believe?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/4/2013 3:29:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 3:21:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

The idea of a spiritual experience (as taught in AA) or religious experience (as taught by some so-called Christian religions) is a farce. I wish I had a dollar for every time I was told, "I know it because I feel it." It's total BS. By such I could prove Holy Rollerism, Mormonism, Adventism - and witchcraft and voodoo.

It seems like baloney to you because that's what it is.

We saints don't have religious experiences. We have God come into our mind and let us know who He is. From that point, called faith, God continues to work in our mind to give us commands to obey until we're born into the hidden knowledge to learn all about who we are in Him.

Christians have never had a saint's experience of having God's hidden knowledge revealed to them.
annanicole
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12/4/2013 3:46:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 3:24:57 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:21:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

The idea of a spiritual experience (as taught in AA) or religious experience (as taught by some so-called Christian religions) is a farce. I wish I had a dollar for every time I was told, "I know it because I feel it." It's total BS. By such I could prove Holy Rollerism, Mormonism, Adventism - and witchcraft and voodoo.

It seems like baloney to you because that's what it is.

Fair enough, but aren't you Christian? Why do you believe?

Because I find the arguments for intelligent design and the Christian God much more compelling than any other explanations. I hate to say it, but it's a war of attrition in some respects: whose arguments are the least absurd?

I seldom say much about atheism/theism, preferring to discuss theology itself - but I will say that Christians, ignorant Christians, are their own worst enemies. If you look around on here, you will see that majority of so-called Christians absolutely forfeiting one of the most compelling evidences of Biblical inspiration: the realm of Biblical prophesy.

Out of curiosity, how do you account for it? Do you believe the prophesies were written after the fact, then sort-of "back-dated"? Do you believe that some of them were just good guesses based on probabilities and likelihoods at the time?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Rational_Thinker9119
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12/4/2013 4:51:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 3:46:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:24:57 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:21:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

The idea of a spiritual experience (as taught in AA) or religious experience (as taught by some so-called Christian religions) is a farce. I wish I had a dollar for every time I was told, "I know it because I feel it." It's total BS. By such I could prove Holy Rollerism, Mormonism, Adventism - and witchcraft and voodoo.

It seems like baloney to you because that's what it is.

Fair enough, but aren't you Christian? Why do you believe?

Because I find the arguments for intelligent design and the Christian God much more compelling than any other explanations. I hate to say it, but it's a war of attrition in some respects: whose arguments are the least absurd?

I suppose we have come to different conclusions on that. I find this explanation to be the least compelling.


I seldom say much about atheism/theism, preferring to discuss theology itself - but I will say that Christians, ignorant Christians, are their own worst enemies. If you look around on here, you will see that majority of so-called Christians absolutely forfeiting one of the most compelling evidences of Biblical inspiration: the realm of Biblical prophesy.

Out of curiosity, how do you account for it? Do you believe the prophesies were written after the fact, then sort-of "back-dated"? Do you believe that some of them were just good guesses based on probabilities and likelihoods at the time?

No prophecy compels me at all. I mean, this is supposed to be God, the creator the universe. If he had Relatvity in their I would be impressed. Any other ones seem to vague. I mean, predicting which places fall and rise isn't hard. Which prophecies have you convinced?
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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12/4/2013 5:06:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 4:51:03 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:46:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:24:57 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:21:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

The idea of a spiritual experience (as taught in AA) or religious experience (as taught by some so-called Christian religions) is a farce. I wish I had a dollar for every time I was told, "I know it because I feel it." It's total BS. By such I could prove Holy Rollerism, Mormonism, Adventism - and witchcraft and voodoo.

It seems like baloney to you because that's what it is.

Fair enough, but aren't you Christian? Why do you believe?

Because I find the arguments for intelligent design and the Christian God much more compelling than any other explanations. I hate to say it, but it's a war of attrition in some respects: whose arguments are the least absurd?

I suppose we have come to different conclusions on that. I find this explanation to be the least compelling.


I seldom say much about atheism/theism, preferring to discuss theology itself - but I will say that Christians, ignorant Christians, are their own worst enemies. If you look around on here, you will see that majority of so-called Christians absolutely forfeiting one of the most compelling evidences of Biblical inspiration: the realm of Biblical prophesy.

Out of curiosity, how do you account for it? Do you believe the prophesies were written after the fact, then sort-of "back-dated"? Do you believe that some of them were just good guesses based on probabilities and likelihoods at the time?

No prophecy compels me at all. I mean, this is supposed to be God, the creator the universe. If he had Relatvity in their I would be impressed. Any other ones seem to vague. I mean, predicting which places fall and rise isn't hard. Which prophecies have you convinced?

There are many, and no, predicting that the United States will fall isn't difficult. I'm sure it will - at some point, and in some manner.

I would say that the prophesies concerning the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 found in Matt 24 and Luke 13 are among the most compelling. It is of interest that as far as we know, not a single Christian perished during that siege - while an estimated 1.1 million Jews died. It is also of passing interest that Titus for reasons still unknown withdrew and relaxed the siege, which as it turned out, allowed the remaining Christians to escape.

A prediction or prophesy that "Jerusalem will fall one day" would mean nothing to me. If such a statement were the criterion for a divine prophesy, then I'd become a prophet - and a successful one. But Jesus lived His entire life in an era of relative peace. Nobody could have foreseen that within a generation the temple and the entire Jewish system would be destroyed. If one reads Matt 24 through about verse 34, he will see that every bit of it was fulfilled.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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12/4/2013 5:10:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 5:06:56 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 4:51:03 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:46:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:24:57 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:21:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

The idea of a spiritual experience (as taught in AA) or religious experience (as taught by some so-called Christian religions) is a farce. I wish I had a dollar for every time I was told, "I know it because I feel it." It's total BS. By such I could prove Holy Rollerism, Mormonism, Adventism - and witchcraft and voodoo.

It seems like baloney to you because that's what it is.

Fair enough, but aren't you Christian? Why do you believe?

Because I find the arguments for intelligent design and the Christian God much more compelling than any other explanations. I hate to say it, but it's a war of attrition in some respects: whose arguments are the least absurd?

I suppose we have come to different conclusions on that. I find this explanation to be the least compelling.


I seldom say much about atheism/theism, preferring to discuss theology itself - but I will say that Christians, ignorant Christians, are their own worst enemies. If you look around on here, you will see that majority of so-called Christians absolutely forfeiting one of the most compelling evidences of Biblical inspiration: the realm of Biblical prophesy.

Out of curiosity, how do you account for it? Do you believe the prophesies were written after the fact, then sort-of "back-dated"? Do you believe that some of them were just good guesses based on probabilities and likelihoods at the time?

No prophecy compels me at all. I mean, this is supposed to be God, the creator the universe. If he had Relatvity in their I would be impressed. Any other ones seem to vague. I mean, predicting which places fall and rise isn't hard. Which prophecies have you convinced?

There are many, and no, predicting that the United States will fall isn't difficult. I'm sure it will - at some point, and in some manner.

I would say that the prophesies concerning the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 found in Matt 24 and Luke 13 are among the most compelling. It is of interest that as far as we know, not a single Christian perished during that siege - while an estimated 1.1 million Jews died. It is also of passing interest that Titus for reasons still unknown withdrew and relaxed the siege, which as it turned out, allowed the remaining Christians to escape.

A prediction or prophesy that "Jerusalem will fall one day" would mean nothing to me. If such a statement were the criterion for a divine prophesy, then I'd become a prophet - and a successful one. But Jesus lived His entire life in an era of relative peace. Nobody could have foreseen that within a generation the temple and the entire Jewish system would be destroyed. If one reads Matt 24 through about verse 34, he will see that every bit of it was fulfilled.

"Nobody could have foreseen that within a generation the temple and the entire Jewish system would be destroyed."

Why not? I guess I'm not getting what's supposed to be moving about these predictions.
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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12/4/2013 5:16:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was getting my boss's briefcase back from some idiots who stole it, and after we capped them another one came out from hiding in the bathroom with this huge revolver. He fired all 6 shots at us at point blank range and missed. It was divine intervention. That day I quit the life, and my partner who refused to believe it was a miracle was killed shortly after. It was a true miracle.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Composer
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12/4/2013 5:47:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 3:08:19 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

Christians may have had religious experiences but they didn't have any experiences that us saints have. And that is to be thrown on the ground while our invisible Creator is changing the information ( energy ) that causes all His people to be deceived from knowing who they are within His mind. After having my body forced to the ground at least eight times in a 28 1/2 year period, God finally got me ready to witness His invisible knowledge within His mind ( also our mind ). Then He forces us saints to write and speak in our own language to learn about the past, present and future.

Christians can't understand what us saints have to go through in order to have God's knowledge revealed to us.
Were you a malignant LIAR before your alleged experience, or a worse malignant LIAR afterwards as you have demonstrated to us already?
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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12/4/2013 6:00:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 5:16:44 PM, thett3 wrote:
I was getting my boss's briefcase back from some idiots who stole it, and after we capped them another one came out from hiding in the bathroom with this huge revolver. He fired all 6 shots at us at point blank range and missed. It was divine intervention. That day I quit the life, and my partner who refused to believe it was a miracle was killed shortly after. It was a true miracle.
It was just a guy that was a bad shot!

The fact that it was life threatening only heightens your traumatised minds perception that a divine force was a participant!

Miracles allegedly happen in many other religious Cults, so which Cult did you choose & why that particular Cult/god, and have you tried others?
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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12/4/2013 6:13:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 6:00:38 PM, Composer wrote:
At 12/4/2013 5:16:44 PM, thett3 wrote:
I was getting my boss's briefcase back from some idiots who stole it, and after we capped them another one came out from hiding in the bathroom with this huge revolver. He fired all 6 shots at us at point blank range and missed. It was divine intervention. That day I quit the life, and my partner who refused to believe it was a miracle was killed shortly after. It was a true miracle.
It was just a guy that was a bad shot!

The fact that it was life threatening only heightens your traumatised minds perception that a divine force was a participant!

Miracles allegedly happen in many other religious Cults, so which Cult did you choose & why that particular Cult/god, and have you tried others?

Lol I dont think you got the joke...
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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12/4/2013 6:54:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 3:08:19 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

Christians may have had religious experiences but they didn't have any experiences that us saints have. And that is to be thrown on the ground while our invisible Creator is changing the information ( energy ) that causes all His people to be deceived from knowing who they are within His mind. After having my body forced to the ground at least eight times in a 28 1/2 year period, God finally got me ready to witness His invisible knowledge within His mind ( also our mind ). Then He forces us saints to write and speak in our own language to learn about the past, present and future.

Christians can't understand what us saints have to go through in order to have God's knowledge revealed to us.

I want to be a saint. Show me the way master.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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12/4/2013 7:06:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 5:44:57 PM, Composer wrote:
THE MYTH OF PROPHECY FULFILLMENT

http://www.websitesonadime.com...


I read it, and here is the error: "They see it as the effort of a second-century author to instill optimism in beleaguered Maccabean forces by making it appear that a sixth-century prophet had predicted that their struggle would eventually bring about the establishment of the long-awaited messianic kingdom."

They are ascribing the book of Daniel from the OT to the second-century AD, although they actually mean the second-century BC. There were no "Maccabean forces" in the 2nd century AD. By "sixth-century prophet", they actually mean a "6th-century BC" prophet. In other words, what they are doing is just what I've always said they'd have to do: re-date the date of composition. I actually don't blame them, for there is no way around it.

The net result of redating is this: there was no Daniel. Daniel never spoke to the king of Babylon. The prophesies were written after-the-fact.

My position is this, regarding Biblical prophesy: the only hope to negate it is to re-date it. Such an effort is not by choice: it is by mandate. I see no way around it - and never have been able to see a way around it. That is why I usually rely on Matt 24/Luke 13. It is very difficult to assign a post AD 70 date of composition to them.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Idealist
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12/4/2013 7:12:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

You know, I personally had a very intense transitional experience about five years ago. I know it could have been delusional, but I would still describe it as spiritual. It felt as real as anything I've ever experienced in my life, and it was consistent for six months, not just a single happening. I've been trying to figure-out what it was, exactly, but I've learned better than to share that experience with anyone who willfully wishes to dismember it without any true attempt at understanding. I don't think transcendental experiences can be shared, even though most people have them. Jack Black is an open atheist, yet admits that music leads him to transcendental experiences he can't understand.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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12/4/2013 7:17:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 5:10:21 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 5:06:56 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 4:51:03 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:46:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:24:57 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:21:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

The idea of a spiritual experience (as taught in AA) or religious experience (as taught by some so-called Christian religions) is a farce. I wish I had a dollar for every time I was told, "I know it because I feel it." It's total BS. By such I could prove Holy Rollerism, Mormonism, Adventism - and witchcraft and voodoo.

It seems like baloney to you because that's what it is.

Fair enough, but aren't you Christian? Why do you believe?

Because I find the arguments for intelligent design and the Christian God much more compelling than any other explanations. I hate to say it, but it's a war of attrition in some respects: whose arguments are the least absurd?

I suppose we have come to different conclusions on that. I find this explanation to be the least compelling.


I seldom say much about atheism/theism, preferring to discuss theology itself - but I will say that Christians, ignorant Christians, are their own worst enemies. If you look around on here, you will see that majority of so-called Christians absolutely forfeiting one of the most compelling evidences of Biblical inspiration: the realm of Biblical prophesy.

Out of curiosity, how do you account for it? Do you believe the prophesies were written after the fact, then sort-of "back-dated"? Do you believe that some of them were just good guesses based on probabilities and likelihoods at the time?

No prophecy compels me at all. I mean, this is supposed to be God, the creator the universe. If he had Relatvity in their I would be impressed. Any other ones seem to vague. I mean, predicting which places fall and rise isn't hard. Which prophecies have you convinced?

There are many, and no, predicting that the United States will fall isn't difficult. I'm sure it will - at some point, and in some manner.

I would say that the prophesies concerning the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 found in Matt 24 and Luke 13 are among the most compelling. It is of interest that as far as we know, not a single Christian perished during that siege - while an estimated 1.1 million Jews died. It is also of passing interest that Titus for reasons still unknown withdrew and relaxed the siege, which as it turned out, allowed the remaining Christians to escape.

A prediction or prophesy that "Jerusalem will fall one day" would mean nothing to me. If such a statement were the criterion for a divine prophesy, then I'd become a prophet - and a successful one. But Jesus lived His entire life in an era of relative peace. Nobody could have foreseen that within a generation the temple and the entire Jewish system would be destroyed. If one reads Matt 24 through about verse 34, he will see that every bit of it was fulfilled.

"Nobody could have foreseen that within a generation the temple and the entire Jewish system would be destroyed."

Why not? I guess I'm not getting what's supposed to be moving about these predictions.

Hmm ... sorry. I typed an answer, and guess I forgot to post it. I repeat: there is nothing "moving" (as the word would be commonly employed). I pay no attention to the radical emotionalism, the proof by feeling, the evidence by pietism. It's worthless evidence. In fact, it's not even evidence. It's just worthless.

There was as far as I know positively no indication in the AD30's that by AD70 the city of Jerusalem would be under siege and ultimately capitulate, resulting in the total destruction of the temple. To the contrary, peace prevailed in the decades surrounding AD30.

I have never seen an ounce of evidence to indicate that a reasonable person in AD30 would have foreseen that by AD70 the Jewish state would be destroyed, a million Jews would die in a siege, the temple would be leveled, and thousands and thousands of rebellious Jews would be sold off into slavery. The attendant facts are that indeed the army approached Jerusalem from the east (when the north/northwest would have been more usual), the city was surrounded, etc., etc., etc.

If anyone has any such information, I would be interested in seeing it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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12/4/2013 7:38:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 3:46:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:24:57 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:21:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

The idea of a spiritual experience (as taught in AA) or religious experience (as taught by some so-called Christian religions) is a farce. I wish I had a dollar for every time I was told, "I know it because I feel it." It's total BS. By such I could prove Holy Rollerism, Mormonism, Adventism - and witchcraft and voodoo.

It seems like baloney to you because that's what it is.

Fair enough, but aren't you Christian? Why do you believe?

Because I find the arguments for intelligent design and the Christian God much more compelling than any other explanations. I hate to say it, but it's a war of attrition in some respects: whose arguments are the least absurd?

I seldom say much about atheism/theism, preferring to discuss theology itself - but I will say that Christians, ignorant Christians, are their own worst enemies. If you look around on here, you will see absolutely forfeiting one of the most compelling evidences of Biblical inspiration: the realm of Biblical prophesy.

Out of curiosity, how do you account for it? Do you believe the prophesies were written after the fact, then sort-of "back-dated"? Do you believe that some of them were just good guesses based on probabilities and likelihoods at the time?

I totally agree with the sentiment you express here. I often find myself very surprised by the accuracy of so many of those predictions. But we all see the world through our own personal eyes, and no two people are alike. You dismiss personal experience, which is the seed of the interest which calls many people to look for answers beyond what they learn in school, yet you believe that you have identified something which the "majority of so-called Christians" continuously overlook. I myself am not religious, but I don't believe a person's personal experiences should ever be discarded out-of-hand. For five years I've surfed the internet with an eye peeled for the kind of stories you wantonly describe as "baloney," simply because I want to really understand how the human mind can transcend reality in ways that science has yet to uncover. It does happen.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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12/4/2013 7:46:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 6:13:03 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 6:00:38 PM, Composer wrote:
At 12/4/2013 5:16:44 PM, thett3 wrote:
I was getting my boss's briefcase back from some idiots who stole it, and after we capped them another one came out from hiding in the bathroom with this huge revolver. He fired all 6 shots at us at point blank range and missed. It was divine intervention. That day I quit the life, and my partner who refused to believe it was a miracle was killed shortly after. It was a true miracle.
It was just a guy that was a bad shot!

The fact that it was life threatening only heightens your traumatised minds perception that a divine force was a participant!

Miracles allegedly happen in many other religious Cults, so which Cult did you choose & why that particular Cult/god, and have you tried others?

Lol I dont think you got the joke...

It doesn't seem like he did. It was a crazy scene in the movie Pulp Fiction, which just got crazier as they proceeded.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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12/4/2013 10:37:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 7:38:42 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:46:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:24:57 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:21:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

The idea of a spiritual experience (as taught in AA) or religious experience (as taught by some so-called Christian religions) is a farce. I wish I had a dollar for every time I was told, "I know it because I feel it." It's total BS. By such I could prove Holy Rollerism, Mormonism, Adventism - and witchcraft and voodoo.

It seems like baloney to you because that's what it is.

Fair enough, but aren't you Christian? Why do you believe?

Because I find the arguments for intelligent design and the Christian God much more compelling than any other explanations. I hate to say it, but it's a war of attrition in some respects: whose arguments are the least absurd?

I seldom say much about atheism/theism, preferring to discuss theology itself - but I will say that Christians, ignorant Christians, are their own worst enemies. If you look around on here, you will see absolutely forfeiting one of the most compelling evidences of Biblical inspiration: the realm of Biblical prophesy.

Out of curiosity, how do you account for it? Do you believe the prophesies were written after the fact, then sort-of "back-dated"? Do you believe that some of them were just good guesses based on probabilities and likelihoods at the time?

I totally agree with the sentiment you express here. I often find myself very surprised by the accuracy of so many of those predictions. But we all see the world through our own personal eyes, and no two people are alike. You dismiss personal experience, which is the seed of the interest which calls many people to look for answers beyond what they learn in school, yet you believe that you have identified something which the "majority of so-called Christians" continuously overlook. I myself am not religious, but I don't believe a person's personal experiences should ever be discarded out-of-hand. For five years I've surfed the internet with an eye peeled for the kind of stories you wantonly describe as "baloney," simply because I want to really understand how the human mind can transcend reality in ways that science has yet to uncover. It does happen.

I discard personal experience because the Bible does not teach that such is the criterion for accuracy; in fact, it is replete with warnings against appeals to the conscience or feelings as evidence. If I were to accept "personal experience" or "testimonials", I could prove anything from Adventism to voodooism to witchdoctorism to Catholicism to WatchTowerism. Now I do admit that it is interesting to observe how the human mind can fool itself.

Take MadCornish, for example. He thinks the Jehovah's Witnesses are "God's people". Why? No group has a sorrier record of making the most horrendous errors. And if you doubled their errors, he'd stick right with them, lauding their honesty in admitting their mistakes, although he can't name a single mistake they've ever admitted freely. Every admission has been under duress. If someone can name a self-admitted error of, for instance, the WatchTower that was not conceded under duress, then I'd love to know of it. Anyway, I agree that the human mind is an interesting thing to observe, particular in regards to religion.

I'm not sure I completely understand your statement, "I want to really understand how the human mind can transcend reality in ways that science has yet to uncover." I'm not sure the human mind "transcends" reality - it side-steps it in deference to emotions, feelings, etc.

You say, "you believe that you have identified something which the "majority of so-called Christians" continuously overlook."

Not really. They know it. In fact, every (or almost every) New Testament book seeks to prove its case by references to Old Testament prophesy. Peter's sermon on Pentecost is a prime example. Paul's defense of himself and his beliefs are another. I'd estimate there are hundreds of such references in the NT. With that in mind, precisely why Christians would consciously choose to prove their case by some sort of "experience" or feeling or better-felt-than-explained emotion is a little perplexing.

It is interesting, as you say. I heard an hilarious "discussion" between a Baptist and an Adventist, both of whom knew very little about the Bible - but both of them could "feel" it right here (puts hand over chest). Neither would accept the other's feelings, and they finally wound up calling each other liars and consigning each other to hell.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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12/5/2013 2:50:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 6:54:21 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:08:19 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

Christians may have had religious experiences but they didn't have any experiences that us saints have. And that is to be thrown on the ground while our invisible Creator is changing the information ( energy ) that causes all His people to be deceived from knowing who they are within His mind. After having my body forced to the ground at least eight times in a 28 1/2 year period, God finally got me ready to witness His invisible knowledge within His mind ( also our mind ). Then He forces us saints to write and speak in our own language to learn about the past, present and future.

Christians can't understand what us saints have to go through in order to have God's knowledge revealed to us.

I want to be a saint. Show me the way master.

Bare in mind that self proclaimed Brad has already been exposed twice in a short time of telling out & out LIES!

Do you wish to become a LIAR like the proven LYING saint BRAD?
Darran
Posts: 148
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12/5/2013 3:16:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

Personal I feel this must be referring more to born again individuals rather then religion from up-bringing. As many religious people have belief without such experiences. I have never met a born again who claimed they turned to God for no reason.

Most of these experiences originate from several factors. Those factors being grief, loneliness and fear.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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12/5/2013 8:08:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/5/2013 3:16:22 AM, Darran wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.


Personal I feel this must be referring more to born again individuals rather then religion from up-bringing. As many religious people have belief without such experiences. I have never met a born again who claimed they turned to God for no reason.

Most of these experiences originate from several factors. Those factors being grief, loneliness and fear.

..... and perhaps the major factor: it is expected. The major "Christian" religious groups, most especially the Baptists, used to demand some sort of testimony of one's "experience" before they'd vote him into the church. And technically many of them still do it. They used to run down to the mourner's bench and pray and pray and pray for God to send down His converting power.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/5/2013 9:44:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 5:47:02 PM, Composer wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:08:19 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

Christians may have had religious experiences but they didn't have any experiences that us saints have. And that is to be thrown on the ground while our invisible Creator is changing the information ( energy ) that causes all His people to be deceived from knowing who they are within His mind. After having my body forced to the ground at least eight times in a 28 1/2 year period, God finally got me ready to witness His invisible knowledge within His mind ( also our mind ). Then He forces us saints to write and speak in our own language to learn about the past, present and future.

Christians can't understand what us saints have to go through in order to have God's knowledge revealed to us.
Were you a malignant LIAR before your alleged experience, or a worse malignant LIAR afterwards as you have demonstrated to us already?

Are you having a problem? You may have to live with that problem until your lying flesh perishes in this age.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/5/2013 9:49:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 3:46:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:24:57 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:21:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

The idea of a spiritual experience (as taught in AA) or religious experience (as taught by some so-called Christian religions) is a farce. I wish I had a dollar for every time I was told, "I know it because I feel it." It's total BS. By such I could prove Holy Rollerism, Mormonism, Adventism - and witchcraft and voodoo.

It seems like baloney to you because that's what it is.

Fair enough, but aren't you Christian? Why do you believe?

Because I find the arguments for intelligent design and the Christian God much more compelling than any other explanations. I hate to say it, but it's a war of attrition in some respects: whose arguments are the least absurd?

I seldom say much about atheism/theism, preferring to discuss theology itself - but I will say that Christians, ignorant Christians, are their own worst enemies. If you look around on here, you will see that majority of so-called Christians absolutely forfeiting one of the most compelling evidences of Biblical inspiration: the realm of Biblical prophesy.

Out of curiosity, how do you account for it? Do you believe the prophesies were written after the fact, then sort-of "back-dated"? Do you believe that some of them were just good guesses based on probabilities and likelihoods at the time?

No prophecy has ever been understood by men. Only God's servant, through the flesh called a saint , can understand a prophecy about our future.

Christians are liars who have no authority to interpret the prophecies. It's easy to see they have no Truth because they all have different interpretations of the prophecies.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/5/2013 9:53:27 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 6:00:38 PM, Composer wrote:
At 12/4/2013 5:16:44 PM, thett3 wrote:
I was getting my boss's briefcase back from some idiots who stole it, and after we capped them another one came out from hiding in the bathroom with this huge revolver. He fired all 6 shots at us at point blank range and missed. It was divine intervention. That day I quit the life, and my partner who refused to believe it was a miracle was killed shortly after. It was a true miracle.
It was just a guy that was a bad shot!

The fact that it was life threatening only heightens your traumatised minds perception that a divine force was a participant!

Miracles allegedly happen in many other religious Cults, so which Cult did you choose & why that particular Cult/god, and have you tried others?

The miracle of life is the only miracle that still baffles men. Would you like to hear about how we were created?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/5/2013 9:55:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 12/4/2013 6:54:21 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:08:19 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/4/2013 3:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Theists who say they know God exists through experience set off Red Flags in my head right away. What experience? You mean you just feel good, or get a sense that you are alright? Is someone talking to you?

What exactly do you mean by a "religious experience"? What is it like? What does it entail? It all seems like baloney to me, but I need to know more about what it implies.

Christians may have had religious experiences but they didn't have any experiences that us saints have. And that is to be thrown on the ground while our invisible Creator is changing the information ( energy ) that causes all His people to be deceived from knowing who they are within His mind. After having my body forced to the ground at least eight times in a 28 1/2 year period, God finally got me ready to witness His invisible knowledge within His mind ( also our mind ). Then He forces us saints to write and speak in our own language to learn about the past, present and future.

Christians can't understand what us saints have to go through in order to have God's knowledge revealed to us.

I want to be a saint. Show me the way master.

When your flesh dies, then you'll understand the difference between a saint and a man.