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Only responses formed in knowledge wanted.

MadCornishBiker
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12/17/2013 6:46:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I would genuinely like the opinions of anyone who is prepared to read this and then comment.

However please only comment after you have read it, and checked all the scriptures it is based on (in any translation you wish, as well as by following the links).

I want informed opinion, not useless argument in ignorance.

http://wol.jw.org...
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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12/17/2013 7:48:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Preface: -

Outrageous & hypocritical statement again from MCB -

" Only responses formed in knowledge wanted. "

It has been repeatedly already proven that YOUR knowledge is spurious, flawed, rejected by your own preferred Cult that also coerces its members to do as Bethel commands & demands its members to preach falsehoods, or face expulsion.

Articles outrageous claims: Starting with: . . . . . . . . God implanted in Adam and Eve the wonderful gift of free will as part of the human makeup.

1. The reference to a god is based upon a 100% human devised concept.

2. The legitimate evidence ANY literal Supernatural being was involved in ANY acclaimed ' holy-text ' remains a constant zero!

3. Adam & Eve are 100% human fabrication in the bible Story book

MCB falsely proposes - They were not to be mindless robots. However, their continued happiness depended upon their using free will in the right way"to obey God"s laws.

That in itself is yet another self contradiction i.e. -

Free will: The power of making free choices unconstrained by external agencies (WordWeb)

NB: . . . . ****** unconstrained by external agencies

Immediately that negates a genuine Free-Will!

i) YOU MCB admit that they are forced to comply like it or not!

ii) Gen. 2:17 shows that Story book god threatened them to comply or be punished with Death! (Not that they would even know what that meant!)

Again that is coercion; which again negates Free-Will! (See ****** above)

Article blunders on: God says: "I, Jehovah, am your God, . . . .
Even the Botchtower admits they misuse & abuse Story book gods proper (more accurate name YHWH) for their corrupt 'Jehovah ' based upon supposed peoples preference by way of familiarity?

Corrupt article blunders on: Sadly, our first parents felt that they could be independent of God and still be successful. But when they pulled away from God"s rulership, he no longer sustained them in perfection. So they began to degenerate until finally they got old and died. Consistent with the laws of genetics, we have inherited that imperfection and death."Romans 5:12.

#1:
Story book god Created them innately Mortal thus imperfect beings dependent on the Tree of Life to make them Immortal/live eternally, hence they were Created innately subject to death hence imperfect!

Thereby unambiguously refuting this BS Articles claims that Death came because of their disobedience!

Article blunders on: Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned"

More J.w Botchtower lies easily refuted by Deut. 24:16 & Ezek. 18:20 Story book

It would also be fitting instead of your asking for more assistance, to first answer the long outstanding questions (e.g. your Satan BS) YOU have cowardly run away from answering because YOU know YOU are outclassed and your ideology is legitimately Unsustainable hence you run from answering, let alone having the capacity to answer coherently!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/17/2013 10:00:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 6:46:06 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I would genuinely like the opinions of anyone who is prepared to read this and then comment.

However please only comment after you have read it, and checked all the scriptures it is based on (in any translation you wish, as well as by following the links).

I want informed opinion, not useless argument in ignorance.

http://wol.jw.org...

Every bit of that writing is false. The JW's are false prophets who have no idea that the righteous are the spirit of man and the flesh is the wicked deceiver. All flesh will perish during this age and only the spirit of man will go on to the NEW HEAVEN and EARTH.

On the last day of this age, all the flesh on this earth will perish within ONE HOUR as the whole earth shakes violently and wobbles. This was prophesied through Noah when God said He would destroy ALL flesh with the earth. The first bunch of flesh were destroyed by the flood and the rest of the flesh will perish through the rest of this age and on the last day of this age when God's fire will melt the crust of this earth. This will fulfill this following prophecy.

Genesis 6
12: And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth.
13: And God said to Noah, "I have determined to make an end of all flesh; for the earth is filled with violence through them; behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
17: For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall die.

The flood waters set up the last day when the earth's crust will be melted by hot molten lava. Because of the flood, most of the original cracks in the earth's crust were covered up and this set up the building of heat pressure inside the earth. Without proper ventilation of this heat build-up, the earth's crust will eventually give way to it and the magma deep inside the earth will blow through the crust and melt everything that exists on it, including all flesh of God's humans and beasts.

Ecclesiastes 3
17: I said in my heart, God will judge the righteous and the wicked, for he has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work.
18: I said in my heart with regard to the sons of men that God is testing them to show them that they are but beasts.
19: For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity.
20: All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.

The wicked ( flesh ) will be destroyed but the righteous ( spirit ) will be saved in the Glory of God ( Christ ) and live forever and ever.

Isaiah 43
1: But now thus says the LORD, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.
2: When you pass through the waters I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you.
3: For I am the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior. I give Egypt as your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in exchange for you.

Neither the flood or God's fire will consume the spirit of man. Only the flesh perishes in this age.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/17/2013 10:20:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 7:48:52 AM, Composer wrote:
Preface: -

Outrageous & hypocritical statement again from MCB -

" Only responses formed in knowledge wanted. "

It has been repeatedly already proven that YOUR knowledge is spurious, flawed, rejected by your own preferred Cult that also coerces its members to do as Bethel commands & demands its members to preach falsehoods, or face expulsion.


Articles outrageous claims: Starting with: . . . . . . . . God implanted in Adam and Eve the wonderful gift of free will as part of the human makeup.

1. The reference to a god is based upon a 100% human devised concept.

2. The legitimate evidence ANY literal Supernatural being was involved in ANY acclaimed ' holy-text ' remains a constant zero!

3. Adam & Eve are 100% human fabrication in the bible Story book

MCB falsely proposes - They were not to be mindless robots. However, their continued happiness depended upon their using free will in the right way"to obey God"s laws.

That in itself is yet another self contradiction i.e. -

Free will: The power of making free choices unconstrained by external agencies (WordWeb)

NB: . . . . ****** unconstrained by external agencies

Immediately that negates a genuine Free-Will!

i) YOU MCB admit that they are forced to comply like it or not!

ii) Gen. 2:17 shows that Story book god threatened them to comply or be punished with Death! (Not that they would even know what that meant!)

Again that is coercion; which again negates Free-Will! (See ****** above)

Article blunders on: God says: "I, Jehovah, am your God, . . . .
Even the Botchtower admits they misuse & abuse Story book gods proper (more accurate name YHWH) for their corrupt 'Jehovah ' based upon supposed peoples preference by way of familiarity?

Corrupt article blunders on: Sadly, our first parents felt that they could be independent of God and still be successful. But when they pulled away from God"s rulership, he no longer sustained them in perfection. So they began to degenerate until finally they got old and died. Consistent with the laws of genetics, we have inherited that imperfection and death."Romans 5:12.

#1:
Story book god Created them innately Mortal thus imperfect beings dependent on the Tree of Life to make them Immortal/live eternally, hence they were Created innately subject to death hence imperfect!

Thereby unambiguously refuting this BS Articles claims that Death came because of their disobedience!

Article blunders on: Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned"

More J.w Botchtower lies easily refuted by Deut. 24:16 & Ezek. 18:20 Story book

It would also be fitting instead of your asking for more assistance, to first answer the long outstanding questions (e.g. your Satan BS) YOU have cowardly run away from answering because YOU know YOU are outclassed and your ideology is legitimately Unsustainable hence you run from answering, let alone having the capacity to answer coherently!

Nothing hypocritical in anything I say, what I teach I also live by.

However if I had been a gambling man I would have put money on you being the first mindless bigot to reply, lol.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/17/2013 10:21:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 10:00:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2013 6:46:06 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I would genuinely like the opinions of anyone who is prepared to read this and then comment.

However please only comment after you have read it, and checked all the scriptures it is based on (in any translation you wish, as well as by following the links).

I want informed opinion, not useless argument in ignorance.

http://wol.jw.org...

Every bit of that writing is false. The JW's are false prophets who have no idea that the righteous are the spirit of man and the flesh is the wicked deceiver. All flesh will perish during this age and only the spirit of man will go on to the NEW HEAVEN and EARTH.

On the last day of this age, all the flesh on this earth will perish within ONE HOUR as the whole earth shakes violently and wobbles. This was prophesied through Noah when God said He would destroy ALL flesh with the earth. The first bunch of flesh were destroyed by the flood and the rest of the flesh will perish through the rest of this age and on the last day of this age when God's fire will melt the crust of this earth. This will fulfill this following prophecy.

Genesis 6
12: And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth.
13: And God said to Noah, "I have determined to make an end of all flesh; for the earth is filled with violence through them; behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
17: For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall die.

The flood waters set up the last day when the earth's crust will be melted by hot molten lava. Because of the flood, most of the original cracks in the earth's crust were covered up and this set up the building of heat pressure inside the earth. Without proper ventilation of this heat build-up, the earth's crust will eventually give way to it and the magma deep inside the earth will blow through the crust and melt everything that exists on it, including all flesh of God's humans and beasts.

Ecclesiastes 3
17: I said in my heart, God will judge the righteous and the wicked, for he has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work.
18: I said in my heart with regard to the sons of men that God is testing them to show them that they are but beasts.
19: For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity.
20: All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.

The wicked ( flesh ) will be destroyed but the righteous ( spirit ) will be saved in the Glory of God ( Christ ) and live forever and ever.

Isaiah 43
1: But now thus says the LORD, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.
2: When you pass through the waters I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you.
3: For I am the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior. I give Egypt as your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in exchange for you.

Neither the flood or God's fire will consume the spirit of man. Only the flesh perishes in this age.

Yup, just as I thought, you had to be the mindless bigot from the other end of the spectrum, lol.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/17/2013 10:37:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 10:21:45 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/17/2013 10:00:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2013 6:46:06 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I would genuinely like the opinions of anyone who is prepared to read this and then comment.

However please only comment after you have read it, and checked all the scriptures it is based on (in any translation you wish, as well as by following the links).

I want informed opinion, not useless argument in ignorance.

http://wol.jw.org...

Every bit of that writing is false. The JW's are false prophets who have no idea that the righteous are the spirit of man and the flesh is the wicked deceiver. All flesh will perish during this age and only the spirit of man will go on to the NEW HEAVEN and EARTH.

On the last day of this age, all the flesh on this earth will perish within ONE HOUR as the whole earth shakes violently and wobbles. This was prophesied through Noah when God said He would destroy ALL flesh with the earth. The first bunch of flesh were destroyed by the flood and the rest of the flesh will perish through the rest of this age and on the last day of this age when God's fire will melt the crust of this earth. This will fulfill this following prophecy.

Genesis 6
12: And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth.
13: And God said to Noah, "I have determined to make an end of all flesh; for the earth is filled with violence through them; behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
17: For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall die.

The flood waters set up the last day when the earth's crust will be melted by hot molten lava. Because of the flood, most of the original cracks in the earth's crust were covered up and this set up the building of heat pressure inside the earth. Without proper ventilation of this heat build-up, the earth's crust will eventually give way to it and the magma deep inside the earth will blow through the crust and melt everything that exists on it, including all flesh of God's humans and beasts.

Ecclesiastes 3
17: I said in my heart, God will judge the righteous and the wicked, for he has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work.
18: I said in my heart with regard to the sons of men that God is testing them to show them that they are but beasts.
19: For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity.
20: All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.

The wicked ( flesh ) will be destroyed but the righteous ( spirit ) will be saved in the Glory of God ( Christ ) and live forever and ever.

Isaiah 43
1: But now thus says the LORD, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.
2: When you pass through the waters I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you.
3: For I am the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior. I give Egypt as your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in exchange for you.

Neither the flood or God's fire will consume the spirit of man. Only the flesh perishes in this age.

Yup, just as I thought, you had to be the mindless bigot from the other end of the spectrum, lol.

It's very hard for unbelievers like yourself to understand these prophecies. After your flesh has perished from this world, you will never be deceived by our Creator again.
Seek
Posts: 63
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12/17/2013 10:42:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
: At 12/17/2013 6:46:06 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I would genuinely like the opinions of anyone who is prepared to read this and then comment.

However please only comment after you have read it, and checked all the scriptures it is based on (in any translation you wish, as well as by following the links).

I want informed opinion, not useless argument in ignorance.

http://wol.jw.org...


The selected passage posits a god that is not proven to exist. I do not grant that point. Prove your god, then we'll talk about the validity of the Bible and whether I'll get the warmfuzzies about the eventual end of human suffering.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/17/2013 10:48:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 10:42:17 AM, Seek wrote:
: At 12/17/2013 6:46:06 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I would genuinely like the opinions of anyone who is prepared to read this and then comment.

However please only comment after you have read it, and checked all the scriptures it is based on (in any translation you wish, as well as by following the links).

I want informed opinion, not useless argument in ignorance.

http://wol.jw.org...


The selected passage posits a god that is not proven to exist. I do not grant that point. Prove your god, then we'll talk about the validity of the Bible and whether I'll get the warmfuzzies about the eventual end of human suffering.

No man can prove that an invisible Creator exists. Faith is needed by us saints and prophets who wrote the words He put in our minds to write with.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/17/2013 11:20:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 10:42:17 AM, Seek wrote:
: At 12/17/2013 6:46:06 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I would genuinely like the opinions of anyone who is prepared to read this and then comment.

However please only comment after you have read it, and checked all the scriptures it is based on (in any translation you wish, as well as by following the links).

I want informed opinion, not useless argument in ignorance.

http://wol.jw.org...


The selected passage posits a god that is not proven to exist. I do not grant that point. Prove your god, then we'll talk about the validity of the Bible and whether I'll get the warmfuzzies about the eventual end of human suffering.

Have you not seen the evidence of God which is all around you?

Have you not recognised the inter-connected complexity of everything which shows that there has to be a super-intelligent designer?

Despite the denials of those too bigoted to recognise the truth, the more science delves into the creation, especially in microbiology, the more obvious it becomes the we are, in common with everything else.

It is a fact, accept it or deny it, that not one thing the bible teaches has ever been proven wrong. True there are also few things that have been proven right. The bible continues to benefit from Science and Archaeology as more and more discoveries support the truth of his existence.

However if you want absolute proof, then you will have to wait a little while. Absolute proof is coming, but there is a drawback to it. By the time the absolute proof of the existence of God is here, it will be too late to change your mind.

God wants those with the intelligence and freedom of thought to recognise the evidence for themselves when the vast majority is circumstantial and not absolute.

The example of that came in the run up to the flood.

Noah, whilst building that massive wooden box that was the Ark would inevitably have had to field questions about why he was building it, and no doubt got a very predictable response, just as God's servants do today. Something like "What do you mean a flood? Where is it all to come from? Rain? What's that? There's no such thing". Because they refused to listen to Noah, and what eh tried to tell them about God, they didn't believe what was going to happen until it started to rain, but by the God had closed the Ark door.

It doesn't really matter if you believe that account, though I do, but fact or fiction it is there to teach us a lesson, and Christ used it to do that very thing when, talking of what proves to be theses times he told his listeners that just as in the days of Noah, people would refuse to listen, even mocking those who tried to warn them, until it was too late
Luke 17:22-30
22 Then he said to the disciples: "Days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, but you will not see it. 23 And people will say to you, "See there!" or, "See here!" Do not go out or chase after them. 24 For just as lightning flashes from one part of heaven to another part of heaven, so the Son of man will be in his day. 25 First, however, he must undergo many sufferings and be rejected by this generation. 26 Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the Son of man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the Flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building. 29 But on the day that Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be the same on that day when the Son of man is revealed.

Incidentally we are very close to the day when the son of man will be revealed, and his revealing will be at Armageddon, when he comes to destroy all the works of Satan, and capture and imposing Satan himself and his Angelic followers.

Truth to tell I cannot prove God to you, any more than anyone else could have proved him to me. Like me you have to do the work yourself if you are truly interested in what is true. But you have to do it with an open mind and an honest heart or you will easily convince yourself of what your heart wants you to believe.

Are you up for the challenge?

Are you prepared to read the literature, and study scripture through it? Is life worth that much to you?

Only you can answer those questions, but whether you are trying to prove it right or wrong, if you do so honestly I can guarantee there can only be one result.

Been there, done that, got the T shirt as they say, and now wear it proudly, boasting not in myself but in God for all he does for us, and has done for me also.
Seek
Posts: 63
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12/17/2013 11:24:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
: At 12/17/2013 11:20:36 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Are you up for the challenge?



Nah, wasted enough of my life on that BS already. Thanks though.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/17/2013 11:42:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 10:37:02 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2013 10:21:45 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/17/2013 10:00:11 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2013 6:46:06 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I would genuinely like the opinions of anyone who is prepared to read this and then comment.

However please only comment after you have read it, and checked all the scriptures it is based on (in any translation you wish, as well as by following the links).

I want informed opinion, not useless argument in ignorance.

http://wol.jw.org...

Every bit of that writing is false. The JW's are false prophets who have no idea that the righteous are the spirit of man and the flesh is the wicked deceiver. All flesh will perish during this age and only the spirit of man will go on to the NEW HEAVEN and EARTH.

On the last day of this age, all the flesh on this earth will perish within ONE HOUR as the whole earth shakes violently and wobbles. This was prophesied through Noah when God said He would destroy ALL flesh with the earth. The first bunch of flesh were destroyed by the flood and the rest of the flesh will perish through the rest of this age and on the last day of this age when God's fire will melt the crust of this earth. This will fulfill this following prophecy.

Genesis 6
12: And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth.
13: And God said to Noah, "I have determined to make an end of all flesh; for the earth is filled with violence through them; behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
17: For behold, I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall die.

The flood waters set up the last day when the earth's crust will be melted by hot molten lava. Because of the flood, most of the original cracks in the earth's crust were covered up and this set up the building of heat pressure inside the earth. Without proper ventilation of this heat build-up, the earth's crust will eventually give way to it and the magma deep inside the earth will blow through the crust and melt everything that exists on it, including all flesh of God's humans and beasts.

Ecclesiastes 3
17: I said in my heart, God will judge the righteous and the wicked, for he has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work.
18: I said in my heart with regard to the sons of men that God is testing them to show them that they are but beasts.
19: For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts; for all is vanity.
20: All go to one place; all are from the dust, and all turn to dust again.

The wicked ( flesh ) will be destroyed but the righteous ( spirit ) will be saved in the Glory of God ( Christ ) and live forever and ever.

Isaiah 43
1: But now thus says the LORD, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.
2: When you pass through the waters I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you.
3: For I am the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior. I give Egypt as your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in exchange for you.

Neither the flood or God's fire will consume the spirit of man. Only the flesh perishes in this age.

Yup, just as I thought, you had to be the mindless bigot from the other end of the spectrum, lol.

It's very hard for unbelievers like yourself to understand these prophecies. After your flesh has perished from this world, you will never be deceived by our Creator again.

I am far from an unbeliever. I believe in and serve the true God and his son, I also believe in the one behind what you teach and the one you serve, whether you want to admit it or not.

As Satan proved when tempting Jesus Satan is every bit as capable of supplying you with the incorrect answers you so often come up with.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/17/2013 11:45:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 11:24:49 AM, Seek wrote:
: At 12/17/2013 11:20:36 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Are you up for the challenge?



Nah, wasted enough of my life on that BS already. Thanks though.

Shame because you would find it is neither BS nor a waste of time. However like all precious things it takes effort to find them

However it is your choice, and you will be judged by it, as we are all to be judged by the choice we make.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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12/17/2013 12:42:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
MCB: "I want informed opinion, not useless argument in ignorance."

Anna: You got the latter from the article. Is the "soon" is God's terms - or man's terms? After all, you had to invent a difference, didn't you? The only trouble was: there is no such thing as "soon" in God's terms.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/17/2013 1:06:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 12:42:53 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "I want informed opinion, not useless argument in ignorance."

Anna: You got the latter from the article. Is the "soon" is God's terms - or man's terms? After all, you had to invent a difference, didn't you? The only trouble was: there is no such thing as "soon" in God's terms.

On the contrary, you got informed opinion, informed by scripture, and you got the scriptures which support it allowing you to see the source of the information.

Just because in your bigotry you don't want to admit that doesn't mean it is true.

That is why I was looking for informed opinion, not the "thoughts" of bigots such as yourself who filter everything through you own preferences.

I can support all my beliefs from scripture, and scripture alone, you cannot, you have to go running to the words of men, and watering down what you can't explain away.

You even take the completely unequivocal statement in John 1:18 that describes the one who became the Christ as the first and only sole creation of God. If you can do that you can twist anything, even if it means ignoring any word meaning that doesn't suit your requirements.

If someone being begotten requires some form of procreation then

Mary wasn't a virgin.

Adam wasn't God's son.

Neither were the angels.

Nor can any of us ever be.

Courtesy of Merriam-Webster

be"get transitive verb \bi-G2;get, bē-\
to cause (something) to happen or exist (no mention of birth here)

to become the father of (someone) (nor here since father's cannot give birth

be"got also be"gat be"got"ten or be"got be"get"ting

Full Definition of BEGET

1 : to procreate as the father : sire (That does at least show some form of action by a person to procreate, however that would make Jesus the son of holy spirit, not of God: Matthew 1:24 " 18 But this is how the birth of Jesus Christ took place. During the time his mother Mary was promised in marriage to Joseph, she was found to be pregnant by holy spirit before they were united.")

2: to produce especially as an effect or outgrowth (Absolutely no form of procreation needed here, creation is every bit as likely a meaning, and yet you refuse to accept it as an alternative simply because you don';t wan to believe it.)

That's what bigotry is all about, refusing to change your beliefs in the fact of evidence
annanicole
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12/17/2013 1:20:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
MCB: "If someone being begotten requires some form of procreation then

Mary wasn't a virgin."


Anna: LMAO. Who said anything about "some form of procreation"? You effectively deny the virgin birth, or at least the significance of it, then turn around and deny the resurrection, yet you plead for "informed opinion".

Now you are at the point that if the Holy Spirit somehow - and we aren't told how - inseminated an egg inside Mary's uterus, then YOU have decided that she was no longer a virgin. That's why you go to great lengths to ramble your theories about "perfect human body", etc.

MCB: "Adam wasn't God's son."

Anna: Adam was a son of God by creation, not procreation. Adam was never begotten.

Remember the play that you made on the use of the word "beget" as it relates to animates versus inanimates? Remember that you tried to take the definition as it applied to inanimate objects, and apply it to animates?

MCB: "Courtesy of Merriam-Webster

be"get transitive verb \bi-G2;get, bē-\

to cause (something) to happen or exist (no mention of birth here)

to become the father of (someone) (nor here since father's cannot give birth"


Anna: There it is.

You are dumb enough to try to say Adam was begotten because God "caused him to happen of exist." In so doing, you demonstrate that you do not even comprehend the difference between "someone" and "something".

MCB: "That's what bigotry is all about, refusing to change your beliefs in the fact of evidence"

Anna: Pffffft to "bigotry". It's about stupidity, not bigotry.

It has been pointed out to you time and time again that "beget" only answers to "create" when inanimate objects are involved.
Why must these things be constantly highlighted for you?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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12/17/2013 1:36:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
By the way, you forgot to answer the question:

"You got the latter from the article. Is the 'soon' is God's terms - or man's terms? After all, you had to invent a difference, didn't you? The only trouble was: there is no such thing as 'soon' in God's terms."

You see, with a Witness, one must always ask for a definition of terms. "Soon" to us means less than a hundred years, I suppose - at a very maximum. After all, it never meant more than that in the Bible.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
PGA
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12/17/2013 2:42:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 1:06:16 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/17/2013 12:42:53 PM, annanicole wrote:
I can support all my beliefs from scripture, and scripture alone, you cannot, you have to go running to the words of men, and watering down what you can't explain away.

That is a laugh MCB. You only want informed opinion after you direct us to a WatchTower page! It only goes to show that you can't think outside the WatchTower box, MCB. You are not using Scripture alone, but a double standard.

Peter
MadCornishBiker
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12/17/2013 3:01:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 1:36:04 PM, annanicole wrote:
By the way, you forgot to answer the question:

"You got the latter from the article. Is the 'soon' is God's terms - or man's terms? After all, you had to invent a difference, didn't you? The only trouble was: there is no such thing as 'soon' in God's terms."

You see, with a Witness, one must always ask for a definition of terms. "Soon" to us means less than a hundred years, I suppose - at a very maximum. After all, it never meant more than that in the Bible.

As with all language, the word means whatever God wishes it to mean, especially since it is a comparative term not a definitive one.

However the answer to that can only be found in this case by comparing where we are on God's time line with what is still to happen.

Scripture assures us that we are just over 6,000, approximately 6,100 years (since the creation of Adam) into a 7,000 year time line (the end of the 7th, 7,000 year "day").

So in this last period of almost 900 years what is there to happen?

First the Great Tribulation (which I personally believe we are already in the relatively early stages of). We are given no idea of the duration of that.

Then Armageddon. Again we do not know how long that will last, though I, again personally, suspect it will not last long, it shouldn't take Christ and the Angels long to destroy all of Satan's works on earth and it is , after all, the action which cuts the Great Tribulation short.

Then there is the resurrection of something in the region of about 8 Billion people currently in the grave. No-one knows how long that will take, but logic says it will be done ever increasing groups, each new group being taught and then helping to teach the next.

Then one assumes from the way God normally works that even that last will be given a reasonable time to practice, before Satan is loosed for the final test, which, according to Revelation, will lead to Satan being able to draw a large percentage away after him, but not all, thereby to his destruction and theirs, along with the destruction of death and the, now empty grave.

Having failed to corrupt all of the perfect humans, gives God the last piece of evidence he needs to act against Satan in complete and demonstrable justice with no room for anyone to say "hang on a minute, what if....."

So how much of the remaining roughly 900 years will all that take? How soon does the Great Tribulation need to occupy before Armageddon cuts it short, and still leave time for all the rest?

The only thing we know for sure is that, as with Noah and the Flood, God will not allow Christ to act until he is confident that all who will listen to his warnings spread by his people. So when he calls a halt to the preaching work, or in the pre flood terms shuts the Ark door, that will be the final sign that Christ will be allowed to act, and probably the only definitive sign we will get.

That is why the preaching work is so urgent. That is why people like me work so hard to spread the word, because the time left to save people, like you is short and getting shorter.

However God will only allow you to turn a deaf ear for so long before, like Israel before you, he abandons all who simply don't want to know, ad they will get no part in the New World.

We have all the warnings there in front of us in scripture, all the signs that God, does not have unlimited patience, just more patience with us than we deserve.

This is why I say to you so often, study the truth of scripture, take it on board, keep testing it to see that it really is the truth, and make sure that you are sticking by scripture not the words of men.

It matters not whether you like the ones who teach the truth, all that matters is that they do, whoever they happen to be.

Ironically you do come to love them in time since it is so obvious that God and Christ do.

However, if you want God to accept you, you have to accept his people, just as to survive the Gibeonites had to accept becoming a part of the nation that had been their enemy.

And when the Gibeonites did accept God's people, God's earthly organisation, not only did he accept them, he performed one of his greatest ever miracles in order to protect them from their former allies who had turned against them.

That is the God that I, and the JWs serve, in imitation of Christ and the Apostles. Would you really turn down the opportunity of that just because there are aspects of the JWs, or what they have been, that you don't like?

If you don't like the sound of a God who makes real promises and keeps them, fine, stick with your pretend version as put forward by Satan. But keep fighting against God, as you currently are, at your peril.
MadCornishBiker
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12/17/2013 3:06:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 1:20:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "If someone being begotten requires some form of procreation then

Mary wasn't a virgin."


Anna: LMAO. Who said anything about "some form of procreation"? You effectively deny the virgin birth, or at least the significance of it, then turn around and deny the resurrection, yet you plead for "informed opinion".

Now you are at the point that if the Holy Spirit somehow - and we aren't told how - inseminated an egg inside Mary's uterus, then YOU have decided that she was no longer a virgin. That's why you go to great lengths to ramble your theories about "perfect human body", etc.

MCB: "Adam wasn't God's son."

Anna: Adam was a son of God by creation, not procreation. Adam was never begotten.

Remember the play that you made on the use of the word "beget" as it relates to animates versus inanimates? Remember that you tried to take the definition as it applied to inanimate objects, and apply it to animates?

MCB: "Courtesy of Merriam-Webster

be"get transitive verb \bi-G2;get, bē-\

to cause (something) to happen or exist (no mention of birth here)


to become the father of (someone) (nor here since father's cannot give birth"


Anna: There it is.

You are dumb enough to try to say Adam was begotten because God "caused him to happen of exist." In so doing, you demonstrate that you do not even comprehend the difference between "someone" and "something".

MCB: "That's what bigotry is all about, refusing to change your beliefs in the fact of evidence"

Anna: Pffffft to "bigotry". It's about stupidity, not bigotry.

It has been pointed out to you time and time again that "beget" only answers to "create" when inanimate objects are involved.
Why must these things be constantly highlighted for you?

Yes it has, but the trouble is that it doesn't only apply to create to inanimate objects except in your fantasy world, the dictionary definition allows for both animate and inanimate productions.

The whole point is that understanding it the way it is doesn't create any scriptural conflicts, whereas understanding it as you do creates any number.

Anyway, who are you to tell God how he can or cannot mean words? You continually think you can limit God to meanings that you can accept. You can't, you have to accept how he uses them whether or not you like it.

The trouble of course is that if you were to accept the true nature of Christ your whole belief system crumbles, and you can't have that can you, whether it is true or not.
MadCornishBiker
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12/17/2013 3:13:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 2:42:01 PM, PGA wrote:
At 12/17/2013 1:06:16 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/17/2013 12:42:53 PM, annanicole wrote:
I can support all my beliefs from scripture, and scripture alone, you cannot, you have to go running to the words of men, and watering down what you can't explain away.

That is a laugh MCB. You only want informed opinion after you direct us to a WatchTower page! It only goes to show that you can't think outside the WatchTower box, MCB. You are not using Scripture alone, but a double standard.

Peter

I don't do that, I directed you to a publication which is completely supported by God's word and demonstrates that by producing the scriptures that support it. That means that they rely on the word of God and not the word of men.

Of course if that were a truly informed opinion you would have read it, followed the links or checked up the scriptures in your own bible, and then you would not be able to say what you do and still be honest.

So no, I am not having a laugh. I mean every word of what I say, and it is accurate.

The trouble is that you want to believe things you cannot support scripturally, and so you have to criticise those who actually do put scripture before all else.

You will learn the truth of it one day, like it or not, because God tells us what to believe, we do not tell God what we are prepared to accept, as you try to.

And whatever else you care to say, unlike you, the Jehovah's Witnesses do not accept beliefs which not only are unsupported by scripture, but which even history proves completely false.
PGA
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12/17/2013 5:51:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 3:13:42 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/17/2013 2:42:01 PM, PGA wrote:
At 12/17/2013 1:06:16 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/17/2013 12:42:53 PM, annanicole wrote:
I can support all my beliefs from scripture, and scripture alone, you cannot, you have to go running to the words of men, and watering down what you can't explain away.

That is a laugh MCB. You only want informed opinion after you direct us to a WatchTower page! It only goes to show that you can't think outside the WatchTower box, MCB. You are not using Scripture alone, but a double standard.

Peter

I don't do that, I directed you to a publication which is completely supported by God's word and demonstrates that by producing the scriptures that support it. That means that they rely on the word of God and not the word of men.

Rubbish.

Of course if that were a truly informed opinion you would have read it, followed the links or checked up the scriptures in your own bible, and then you would not be able to say what you do and still be honest.

It is amazing how you are the only one who is honest on this forum. You are the only one who knows anything. Yeah right.

So no, I am not having a laugh. I mean every word of what I say, and it is accurate.

The trouble is that you want to believe things you cannot support scripturally, and so you have to criticise those who actually do put scripture before all else.

No, that is the trouble with you. You do not have support for your interpretation from Scripture. Your cult adds words and changes meaning.

You will learn the truth of it one day, like it or not, because God tells us what to believe, we do not tell God what we are prepared to accept, as you try to.

You will because you don't know it now.

And whatever else you care to say, unlike you, the Jehovah's Witnesses do not accept beliefs which not only are unsupported by scripture, but which even history proves completely false.

That is not true. The documentation of their errors and lies is huge, especially in the area of the false prophesies and their changing of Scripture, like inserting the word 'other' four times in Colossians 1. The Witness is taught not to use their brain by not reading the documentation against their cherished organization.

Peter
bulproof
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12/17/2013 7:14:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 3:13:42 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
we do not tell God what we are prepared to accept,

Are you sure?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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12/17/2013 7:18:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
MCB: "Yes it has, but the trouble is that it doesn't only apply to create to inanimate objects except in your fantasy world, the dictionary definition allows for both animate and inanimate productions."

Anna: No, it doesn't. Can't you comprehend the own definitions you've cited?

to cause (something) to happen or exist
to become the father of (someone)


Those are copied and pasted. Do you know the difference between animate and inanimate. Do you not see that the word "something" - not "someone" - is used in the first definition? You are applying the recipient (a "someone") to a definition that was for a "something".

MCB: "Anyway, who are you to tell God how he can or cannot mean words?"

Anna: Typical Jehovah's Witness. Can't use a lexicon. Can't use a dictionary. They typically make up their own definitions and call them "God's meaning."

I'm not telling God anything. It's you that I'm telling something.

MCB: "You continually think you can limit God to meanings that you can accept. "

Anna: And you are telling God: "Sorry, but I'm gonna assign your words a different meaning than what they mean." It is patently ridiculous for you or the WatchTower or anyone else to try to claim that Adam was a begotten son, when the Bible plainly says that Jesus was the only begotten son.

"Only begotten son" does not and cannot mean "the only one that He made all by Himself". How in the world did you get that meaning from it? "Only begotten Son" only means one thing: there aren't any other begotten sons. Wanna see some dumb answers/

Is Jesus Christ the only begotten Son of God? Yes
Are there any other begotten sons of God? YES

You should be laughed off of DDO for those answers. Inserting the definition of "only", Jesus Christ is the "no one or nothing more besides, solely or exclusively" Son of God.

MCB: "The whole point is that understanding it the way it is doesn't create any scriptural conflicts, whereas understanding it as you do creates any number."

Anna: Name one. And I mean a conflict with normal Christian doctrine - not with WatchTower mess.

MCB: "The trouble of course is that if you were to accept the true nature of Christ your whole belief system crumbles"

Anna: Quite the opposite. You must accept a false nature of Christ, or else your whole belief system crumbles. That's why you look downright silly on the phrase "only begotten". You must destroy the plain and obvious meaning - and plead with everyone to accept a very strained, unheard-of meaning.

Even today, a man could very easily have several sons, but only one "only begotten Son." He could have other sons by adoption. Do you not know the difference between begotten/born - and created/formed? How about begotten and created?

Adam was a son of God by creation.
Jesus was THE son of God by being the only begotten Son.
We are sons of God by adoption.

We aren't "begotten sons of God" - nor was Adam. "Only" means "no one or nothing more besides, solely or exclusively", i. e. "only" means "there aren't any more."

You need to quit redefining simple words and phrases to suit yourself. Everybody in the world knows what "only begotten Son" means. Even atheists know what it means. They just do not believe it. I believe I could get along better with someone who simply didn't believe it than someone who habitually pretends to misunderstand it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
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12/17/2013 7:26:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 3:01:09 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Having failed to corrupt all of the perfect humans, gives God the last piece of evidence he needs to act against Satan in complete and demonstrable justice with no room for anyone to say "hang on a minute, what if....."

Do you mean that nobody will have any reason to question his action?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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12/17/2013 7:32:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
PGA: "No, that is the trouble with you. You do not have support for your interpretation from Scripture. Your cult adds words and changes meaning."

Anna: That is one hallmark of a cult, i .e. the redefinition of common words and phrases. They speak a kind of "cult-ese". That little quirk is what allows MCB to say, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God" - when he does not. That's all there is to it. If he claims that Adam was a begotten son of God (which he does), then I'd say by default that he's saying that Jesus Christ is NOT the only begotten Son of God. No other conclusion is possible.

MCB: I don't do that, I directed you to a publication which is completely supported by God's word and demonstrates that by producing the scriptures that support it. That means that they rely on the word of God and not the word of men.

PGA: Rubbish.


Anna: MCB, you rely on a motley, bumbling collection of deluded men up in Brooklyn for your doctrines. Remember how totally deceptive their explanation of John 8: 58 was? Remember that you finally concluded that 'all is well' because they were allowed to alter the tense if they deemed it necessary? Therefore, when you read John 8: 58 in the NWT, you aren't reading scripture at all.

Whose "word" was it that pronounced that the 144,000 had been filled?
Whose "word" was it that pronounced that the 144,000 might not have been filled?
Whose word are these extra 50% of "memorial partakers" following. Are you trying to tell us that fully 1/3 of the memorial partakers are just deluded nutcases? You be sure and keep an eye on the next few years: my prediction is that more and more Witnesses will fell as though they are "anointed."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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12/17/2013 7:39:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
MCB: "You will learn the truth of it one day, like it or not, because God tells us what to believe, we do not tell God what we are prepared to accept, as you try to."

Anna: .... and that day is "soon", isn't it? Sure it is! It's always "soon" to a Witness! I just bet they've been keeping tabs on world events, just as Miller did in the 1840's. Then Russell did a jim-dandy job of it! Oh, then Rutherford and his 1925 nonsense. Now it's just "soon".

If there's one thing a Witness can't explain, it is the concept of "soon" ... "shortly come to pass" ... "at hand". No, sirree! They get a glazed look in their eyes and muse meaninglessly about what they call "God's view."

The article you cited, MCB, does not include "God's view" in the mix. It was written by men for men; thus, it is written in man's terms. All of this talk about "God's view" as it relates to time is just a cop-out.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
PGA
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12/17/2013 8:18:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 6:46:06 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I want informed opinion, not useless argument in ignorance.

I.E. Whatever conforms to your belief.

http://wol.jw.org...

The WatchTower is making a big assumption here that is not Scriptural and I quote:

"Bible prophecy says: "In the days of those kings [human rulerships now existing] the God of heaven will set up a kingdom [in heaven] that will never be brought to ruin. . . . It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms [present rulerships], and it itself will stand to times indefinite." (Daniel 2:44) The vindication of Jehovah"s sovereignty, his right to rule, by his heavenly Kingdom is the central teaching of the Bible. Foretelling a key part of the sign of "the last days," Jesus said: "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.""Matthew 24:14."

In the days of those kings becomes "human rulerships now existing".
It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms becomes "present rulerships" again.

The WatchTower totally misinterprets Daniel 2:44. There are only four kingdoms and all four have past. The four kingdoms are in relation to Daniels people and the passing of the Old Covenant. The SCRIPTURES give us the details of these kingdoms and actually list three of the four.

Daniel 2:36-40, 44 (NASB)

"36 "This was the dream; now we will tell its interpretation before the king. 37 You, O king, are the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, the strength and the glory; 38 and wherever the sons of men dwell, or the beasts of the field, or the birds of the sky, He has given them into your hand and has caused you to rule over them all. You are the head of gold.
Medo-Persia and Greece

39 After you there will arise another kingdom inferior to you, then another third kingdom of bronze, which will rule over all the earth.
Rome

40 Then there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron; inasmuch as iron crushes and shatters all things, so, like iron that breaks in pieces, it will crush and break all these in pieces.

44 In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.

Daniel 5:26-28
26 This is the interpretation of the [ae]message: "MENĒ""God has numbered your kingdom and put an end to it. 27 "TEKĒL""you have been weighed on the scales and found deficient. 28 "PERĒS""your kingdom has been divided and given over to the Medes and Persians."

The second kingdom - the Medes and Persians and then the third kingdom revealed in Scripture below:

Daniel 8:19 He said, "Behold, I am going to let you know what will occur at the final period of the indignation, for it pertains to the appointed time of the end.
The Ram"s Identity
20 The ram which you saw with the two horns represents the kings of Media and Persia.
The Goat
21 The shaggy goat represents the kingdom of Greece, and the large horn that is between his eyes is the first king. 22 The broken horn and the four horns that arose in its place represent four kingdoms which will arise from his nation, although not with his power.

Three of the four kingdoms are revealed to us in Scripture and the forth we are able to imply from Scripture, just as we know from history that "the large horn that is between his eyes is the first is the first king" points to Alexander the Great. After his death the four generals took over, but did not have the same power he exerted.

"When he was asked who should succeed him, Alexander said, "The strongest", which answer led to his empire being divided between four of his generals: Cassander, Ptolemy, Antigonus, and Seleucus (known as The Diadochi or `successors')."

http://www.ancient.eu.com...

We also know from SCRIPTURE that the end of all things and this great tribulation was an end for Daniels people, the covenant people. We also know from SCRIPTURE that the fall of Jerusalem in 586 B.C. was compared to a time like no other.

Daniel 9:11-14

11 Indeed all Israel has transgressed Your law and turned aside, not obeying Your voice; so the curse has been poured out on us, along with the oath which is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, for we have sinned against Him. 12 Thus He has confirmed His words which He had spoken against us and against our rulers who ruled us, to bring on us great calamity; for under the whole heaven there has not been done anything like what was done to Jerusalem. 13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this calamity has come on us; yet we have not sought the favor of the LORD our God by turning from our iniquity and [h]giving attention to Your truth. 14 Therefore the LORD has kept the calamity in store and brought it on us; for the LORD our God is righteous with respect to all His deeds which He has done, but we have not obeyed His voice.

Daniel compares what happened to Jerusalem in 586 B.C. as like unto nothing that has been done before. In Daniel 9:24-27 we are told that 70 sevens are decreed for Daniels people (OT people) and for the holy city to be restored and then destroyed ONCE more. This all points to A.D. 70.

In Daniel 10:14 Daniel is told:

14 Now I have come to give you an understanding of what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision pertains to the days yet future."

We are also told by SCRIPTURE concerning Daniels people:

Daniel 12:1-
12 "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. 2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. 4 But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase."

In Daniel 12:6-9 we are told that the power of this Old Covenant people will be finally shattered, thus completing the end of this nation and covenant. That happened in A.D. 70.

6 And one said to the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long will it be until the end of these wonders?" 7 I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time; and as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed. 8 As for me, I heard but could not understand; so I said, "My lord, what will be the outcome of these events?" 9 He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time.

Jesus comes in A.D. 30 or so and says this generation who will be held accountable for killing all the prophets will not pass away until all that is written about it is finished (Luke 21:20-24)

There, from Scripture itself. Now refute it with Scripture.
</
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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12/17/2013 8:46:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I already know I can't get a decent and logical response here. So I'll just say this to vent my frustrations: that article only makes this god's master plan seem extremely ridiculous. If the aim of the article is to justify your god's actions, it has failed miserably. In fact it has had the exact opposite effect and done so with mounds of glorious neglect of common sense and the concepts of compassion and mercy.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/17/2013 8:46:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 3:01:09 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/17/2013 1:36:04 PM, annanicole wrote:
By the way, you forgot to answer the question:

"You got the latter from the article. Is the 'soon' is God's terms - or man's terms? After all, you had to invent a difference, didn't you? The only trouble was: there is no such thing as 'soon' in God's terms."

You see, with a Witness, one must always ask for a definition of terms. "Soon" to us means less than a hundred years, I suppose - at a very maximum. After all, it never meant more than that in the Bible.

As with all language, the word means whatever God wishes it to mean, especially since it is a comparative term not a definitive one.

However the answer to that can only be found in this case by comparing where we are on God's time line with what is still to happen.

Scripture assures us that we are just over 6,000, approximately 6,100 years (since the creation of Adam) into a 7,000 year time line (the end of the 7th, 7,000 year "day").

So in this last period of almost 900 years what is there to happen?

First the Great Tribulation (which I personally believe we are already in the relatively early stages of). We are given no idea of the duration of that.

Then Armageddon. Again we do not know how long that will last, though I, again personally, suspect it will not last long, it shouldn't take Christ and the Angels long to destroy all of Satan's works on earth and it is , after all, the action which cuts the Great Tribulation short.

Then there is the resurrection of something in the region of about 8 Billion people currently in the grave. No-one knows how long that will take, but logic says it will be done ever increasing groups, each new group being taught and then helping to teach the next.

Then one assumes from the way God normally works that even that last will be given a reasonable time to practice, before Satan is loosed for the final test, which, according to Revelation, will lead to Satan being able to draw a large percentage away after him, but not all, thereby to his destruction and theirs, along with the destruction of death and the, now empty grave.

Having failed to corrupt all of the perfect humans, gives God the last piece of evidence he needs to act against Satan in complete and demonstrable justice with no room for anyone to say "hang on a minute, what if....."

So how much of the remaining roughly 900 years will all that take? How soon does the Great Tribulation need to occupy before Armageddon cuts it short, and still leave time for all the rest?

The only thing we know for sure is that, as with Noah and the Flood, God will not allow Christ to act until he is confident that all who will listen to his warnings spread by his people. So when he calls a halt to the preaching work, or in the pre flood terms shuts the Ark door, that will be the final sign that Christ will be allowed to act, and probably the only definitive sign we will get.

That is why the preaching work is so urgent. That is why people like me work so hard to spread the word, because the time left to save people, like you is short and getting shorter.

However God will only allow you to turn a deaf ear for so long before, like Israel before you, he abandons all who simply don't want to know, ad they will get no part in the New World.

We have all the warnings there in front of us in scripture, all the signs that God, does not have unlimited patience, just more patience with us than we deserve.

This is why I say to you so often, study the truth of scripture, take it on board, keep testing it to see that it really is the truth, and make sure that you are sticking by scripture not the words of men.

It matters not whether you like the ones who teach the truth, all that matters is that they do, whoever they happen to be.

Ironically you do come to love them in time since it is so obvious that God and Christ do.

However, if you want God to accept you, you have to accept his people, just as to survive the Gibeonites had to accept becoming a part of the nation that had been their enemy.

And when the Gibeonites did accept God's people, God's earthly organisation, not only did he accept them, he performed one of his greatest ever miracles in order to protect them from their former allies who had turned against them.

That is the God that I, and the JWs serve, in imitation of Christ and the Apostles. Would you really turn down the opportunity of that just because there are aspects of the JWs, or what they have been, that you don't like?

If you don't like the sound of a God who makes real promises and keeps them, fine, stick with your pretend version as put forward by Satan. But keep fighting against God, as you currently are, at your peril.

We saints know exactly how the day of the Lord will end this age but you unbelievers won't accept our gospel where the spoken Truth can be heard. I've shown many last day prophecies of how all the flesh will perish on the last day but you reject our Creator's plan.

Isaiah 66
15: "For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the stormwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16: For by fire will the LORD execute judgment, and by his sword, upon all flesh; and those slain by the LORD shall be many.

What part of ALL flesh don't you understand?
PGA
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12/17/2013 8:59:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Okay MCB, again, from your WatchTower propaganda - quote:

"Foretelling a key part of the sign of "the last days," Jesus said: "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.""Matthew 24:14.""

The last days, as recorded in the Bible would be a time when the good news of the kingdom is preached in all the inhabited earth or land.

Acts 2:5-11

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

5 Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. 7 They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs"we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God."

Here we have Jewish men from every nation under heaven hearing the gospel preached in their own language. Further on in the same passage we are told:

Acts 2:14-22
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Peter"s Sermon

14 But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: "Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words. 15 For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day; 16 but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:

17 "And it shall be in the last days," God says,
"That I will pour forth of My Spirit on all mankind;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
And your young men shall see visions,
And your old men shall dream dreams;
18 Even on My bondslaves, both men and women,
I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit
And they shall prophesy.
19 "And I will grant wonders in the sky above
And signs on the earth below,
Blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke.
20 "The sun will be turned into darkness
And the moon into blood,
Before the great and glorious day of the Lord shall come.
21 "And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know"

So here is Peter, standing up among these Jews from every nation under heaven and explaining to them what they have just heard and witnessed. He applies the prophecy of Joel to this very time in which he is speaking and it talks of the last days in which they are now living. This is what SCRIPTURE is talking of. Refute it MCB with your J.W. false prophecy.

Show me why we cannot apply from the Scriptures themselves that the Gospel has been preached in all the world before A.D. 70.

Romans 1:8
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, because your faith is being proclaimed throughout the whole world.

Romans 10:18
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have;

"Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world."
Footnotes:

Romans 10:18 Or inhabited earth

Romans 16:25-26
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, 26 but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;

Colossians 1:5-6
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

5 because of the hope laid up for you in heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, the gospel 6 which has come to you, just as in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and understood the grace of God in truth;

Colossians 1:23
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

MCB, you and your cult keep denying what SCRIPTURE actually teaches, what it makes very plain. It tells us over and over that it has gone into all the world and if you notice the time statements in every gospel and every epistle you will see that the time of Jesus' coming is very near to these 1st century people. You will also see that it is the time of their great tribulation, the time of the end of the age of the Old Covenant, the time of their heavens and earth passing away.

Matthew 10:1
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Twelve Disciples; Instructions for Service

10 Jesus summoned His twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness.

Matthew 10:16-23
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
A Hard Road before Them

16 "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves. 17 But beware of men, for they will hand you over to the courts and scourge you in their synagogues; 18 and you will even be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say. 20 For it is not you who speak, but it is the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you.

21 "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 22 You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.

23 "But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.

Okay, MCB , put your interpretation on these SCRIPTURES and twist them into nonsense. Twist away!

Peter