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Heaven and death.

Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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12/17/2013 6:21:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If someone truly believed in heaven, and one of their family members who is of their faith dies, shouldn't they be happy? Or at the very least only somewhat upset? Or is there something I am missing?
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/17/2013 8:53:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 6:21:46 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
If someone truly believed in heaven, and one of their family members who is of their faith dies, shouldn't they be happy? Or at the very least only somewhat upset? Or is there something I am missing?

You should be happy to know that we're already in heaven. What you see in this world deceives you of our invisible created existence as wavelengths of energy, which is the heavenly kingdom that all us saints know about.
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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12/17/2013 10:00:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 8:53:47 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2013 6:21:46 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
If someone truly believed in heaven, and one of their family members who is of their faith dies, shouldn't they be happy? Or at the very least only somewhat upset? Or is there something I am missing?

You should be happy to know that we're already in heaven. What you see in this world deceives you of our invisible created existence as wavelengths of energy, which is the heavenly kingdom that all us saints know about.

This isn't a question of truth, this is a question of hypocrisy. My question is that, since people believe in heaven, shouldn't they be happy when someone dies if they believe they go to heaven?
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/17/2013 10:11:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 10:00:07 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 12/17/2013 8:53:47 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2013 6:21:46 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
If someone truly believed in heaven, and one of their family members who is of their faith dies, shouldn't they be happy? Or at the very least only somewhat upset? Or is there something I am missing?

You should be happy to know that we're already in heaven. What you see in this world deceives you of our invisible created existence as wavelengths of energy, which is the heavenly kingdom that all us saints know about.

This isn't a question of truth, this is a question of hypocrisy. My question is that, since people believe in heaven, shouldn't they be happy when someone dies if they believe they go to heaven?

Since you didn't care about reading the Truth in my post, I could care less about your question that was asked by your lying flesh.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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12/17/2013 10:47:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 10:00:07 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 12/17/2013 8:53:47 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2013 6:21:46 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
If someone truly believed in heaven, and one of their family members who is of their faith dies, shouldn't they be happy? Or at the very least only somewhat upset? Or is there something I am missing?

You should be happy to know that we're already in heaven. What you see in this world deceives you of our invisible created existence as wavelengths of energy, which is the heavenly kingdom that all us saints know about.

This isn't a question of truth, this is a question of hypocrisy. My question is that, since people believe in heaven, shouldn't they be happy when someone dies if they believe they go to heaven?
They know that heaven-going is a Story book fantasy else they wouldn't be rushing off for medical treatment for themselves & Or their family!

Therefore they even deny e.g. Whoever may seek to save his life, shall lose it; and whoever may lose it, shall preserve it. (Luke 17:33) ESV Story book

They claim their god knows what it is doing like e.g. making them physically sick to teach them lessons but when it comes to learning lessons like obeying Luke 17:33 and NOT seeking human medical intervention because their god apparently sent sickness so they could join it in heaven (LOL!) but they ignore this blessing brought upon them? (LMAO at you dupes)

Some of these hypocritical dupes are even employed / making filthy $Mammon in the Health Industries they belong to, in defiance of their Story book!

Same as Story book jebus, they believe what suits them to try to obtain personal Story book divine rewards!
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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12/18/2013 12:21:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 10:47:28 PM, Composer wrote:
At 12/17/2013 10:00:07 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 12/17/2013 8:53:47 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 12/17/2013 6:21:46 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
If someone truly believed in heaven, and one of their family members who is of their faith dies, shouldn't they be happy? Or at the very least only somewhat upset? Or is there something I am missing?

You should be happy to know that we're already in heaven. What you see in this world deceives you of our invisible created existence as wavelengths of energy, which is the heavenly kingdom that all us saints know about.

This isn't a question of truth, this is a question of hypocrisy. My question is that, since people believe in heaven, shouldn't they be happy when someone dies if they believe they go to heaven?
They know that heaven-going is a Story book fantasy else they wouldn't be rushing off for medical treatment for themselves & Or their family!

Therefore they even deny e.g. Whoever may seek to save his life, shall lose it; and whoever may lose it, shall preserve it. (Luke 17:33) ESV Story book

They claim their god knows what it is doing like e.g. making them physically sick to teach them lessons but when it comes to learning lessons like obeying Luke 17:33 and NOT seeking human medical intervention because their god apparently sent sickness so they could join it in heaven (LOL!) but they ignore this blessing brought upon them? (LMAO at you dupes)



Some of these hypocritical dupes are even employed / making filthy $Mammon in the Health Industries they belong to, in defiance of their Story book!

Same as Story book jebus, they believe what suits them to try to obtain personal Story book divine rewards!


You sound a lot like a crossover between the Young Turks and the Amazing Atheist. Which is awesome,
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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12/18/2013 7:53:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
But whatever you do, don't avail yourself of those satanically inspired scientific medicines to keep your children alive when they could be reveling in paradise.

Surely the greatest hope of the believer is that their child will achieve paradise? Or does the believer only concern herself with her own ticket to paradise?
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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12/18/2013 9:38:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 6:21:46 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
If someone truly believed in heaven, and one of their family members who is of their faith dies, shouldn't they be happy? Or at the very least only somewhat upset? Or is there something I am missing?

I think if there's somebody you love who you are not going to see for the rest of your life, that's a good reason to be sad. With or without heaven, they will be missed.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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12/18/2013 9:42:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 10:47:28 PM, Composer wrote:
They know that heaven-going is a Story book fantasy else they wouldn't be rushing off for medical treatment for themselves & Or their family!

Therefore they even deny e.g. Whoever may seek to save his life, shall lose it; and whoever may lose it, shall preserve it. (Luke 17:33) ESV Story book

They claim their god knows what it is doing like e.g. making them physically sick to teach them lessons but when it comes to learning lessons like obeying Luke 17:33 and NOT seeking human medical intervention because their god apparently sent sickness so they could join it in heaven (LOL!) but they ignore this blessing brought upon them? (LMAO at you dupes)



Some of these hypocritical dupes are even employed / making filthy $Mammon in the Health Industries they belong to, in defiance of their Story book!

Same as Story book jebus, they believe what suits them to try to obtain personal Story book divine rewards!


I'm sorry but I have to point out this rather idiotic interpretation of Luke 17:33...

Based upon your interpretation, Christians should be going out seeking death at every turn! What an absolutely absurd concept. This isn't a passage about seeking death so that you can get to heaven, it's a passage about the nature of discipleship.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to understand the religion that you are criticizing before you do so.

Regards,
TrueScotsman
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/18/2013 11:27:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/18/2013 9:42:20 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/17/2013 10:47:28 PM, Composer wrote:
They know that heaven-going is a Story book fantasy else they wouldn't be rushing off for medical treatment for themselves & Or their family!

Therefore they even deny e.g. Whoever may seek to save his life, shall lose it; and whoever may lose it, shall preserve it. (Luke 17:33) ESV Story book

They claim their god knows what it is doing like e.g. making them physically sick to teach them lessons but when it comes to learning lessons like obeying Luke 17:33 and NOT seeking human medical intervention because their god apparently sent sickness so they could join it in heaven (LOL!) but they ignore this blessing brought upon them? (LMAO at you dupes)



Some of these hypocritical dupes are even employed / making filthy $Mammon in the Health Industries they belong to, in defiance of their Story book!

Same as Story book jebus, they believe what suits them to try to obtain personal Story book divine rewards!


I'm sorry but I have to point out this rather idiotic interpretation of Luke 17:33...

Based upon your interpretation, Christians should be going out seeking death at every turn! What an absolutely absurd concept. This isn't a passage about seeking death so that you can get to heaven, it's a passage about the nature of discipleship.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to understand the religion that you are criticizing before you do so.

Regards,
TrueScotsman

The death of our flesh is the only way to eternal life, not by believing in false gods named Jesus and the virgin Mary.
srehtiw
Posts: 491
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12/18/2013 2:41:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 6:21:46 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
If someone truly believed in heaven, and one of their family members who is of their faith dies, shouldn't they be happy? Or at the very least only somewhat upset? Or is there something I am missing?

The unfortunate thing is that humans are inherently selfish. So it makes it very difficult for us to be happy for another if their happiness gets in the way of our own happiness. This means that even though they are happy in heaven we are unhappy as we are now separated from our loved ones.
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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12/18/2013 6:13:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Okay, I think I got the response for this question that I wanted to get. Thank you all. Except Bornofgod, but I am unsurprised at his response.

One more question.

If hell and heaven are real, and people go to both, and people go to hell for doing things like, not believing in Jesus, or being openly gay, or not worshiping, isn't it awful to have fun in heaven while others suffer? I mean, no matter if it felt like you were getting a blowjob 24/7, isn't is malicious to be happy while good people suffer for crimes that were undeserved? To laugh while people, people you may have known and been friends or family with are screaming in pain? Isn't that awful?
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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12/18/2013 8:12:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/18/2013 6:13:43 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
Okay, I think I got the response for this question that I wanted to get. Thank you all. Except Bornofgod, but I am unsurprised at his response.

One more question.

If hell and heaven are real, and people go to both, and people go to hell for doing things like, not believing in Jesus, or being openly gay, or not worshiping, isn't it awful to have fun in heaven while others suffer? I mean, no matter if it felt like you were getting a blowjob 24/7, isn't is malicious to be happy while good people suffer for crimes that were undeserved? To laugh while people, people you may have known and been friends or family with are screaming in pain? Isn't that awful?

You understand that many Christians don't believe in the idea that people are tortured for all eternity. In fact, I would argue that the Bible absolutely does not teach that.

So I agree with your assessment and critique.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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12/18/2013 8:27:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/18/2013 8:12:10 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/18/2013 6:13:43 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
Okay, I think I got the response for this question that I wanted to get. Thank you all. Except Bornofgod, but I am unsurprised at his response.

One more question.

If hell and heaven are real, and people go to both, and people go to hell for doing things like, not believing in Jesus, or being openly gay, or not worshiping, isn't it awful to have fun in heaven while others suffer? I mean, no matter if it felt like you were getting a blowjob 24/7, isn't is malicious to be happy while good people suffer for crimes that were undeserved? To laugh while people, people you may have known and been friends or family with are screaming in pain? Isn't that awful?

You understand that many Christians don't believe in the idea that people are tortured for all eternity. In fact, I would argue that the Bible absolutely does not teach that.

So I agree with your assessment and critique.

And I'm sure that makes you feel better about your beliefs, but a perusal of jesus' alleged words may be in order.
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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12/18/2013 8:31:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/18/2013 9:38:26 AM, philochristos wrote:
At 12/17/2013 6:21:46 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
If someone truly believed in heaven, and one of their family members who is of their faith dies, shouldn't they be happy? Or at the very least only somewhat upset? Or is there something I am missing?

I think if there's somebody you love who you are not going to see for the rest of your life, that's a good reason to be sad. With or without heaven, they will be missed.

I agree, but believers on their deathbeds should definitely be throwing parties.
James.Price
Posts: 109
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12/18/2013 8:46:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 6:21:46 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
If someone truly believed in heaven, and one of their family members who is of their faith dies, shouldn't they be happy? Or at the very least only somewhat upset? Or is there something I am missing?

It is impossible to truly believe in heaven and remain alive. In order to be rational, the person that believes in heaven will instantly send all of their loved ones to those Elysium fields as soon as he is able. As Andrea Yates did.
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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12/18/2013 9:23:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/18/2013 8:27:31 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/18/2013 8:12:10 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/18/2013 6:13:43 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
Okay, I think I got the response for this question that I wanted to get. Thank you all. Except Bornofgod, but I am unsurprised at his response.

One more question.

If hell and heaven are real, and people go to both, and people go to hell for doing things like, not believing in Jesus, or being openly gay, or not worshiping, isn't it awful to have fun in heaven while others suffer? I mean, no matter if it felt like you were getting a blowjob 24/7, isn't is malicious to be happy while good people suffer for crimes that were undeserved? To laugh while people, people you may have known and been friends or family with are screaming in pain? Isn't that awful?

You understand that many Christians don't believe in the idea that people are tortured for all eternity. In fact, I would argue that the Bible absolutely does not teach that.

So I agree with your assessment and critique.

And I'm sure that makes you feel better about your beliefs, but a perusal of jesus' alleged words may be in order.

If you'd like to, I would be more than happy to have a debate with you on the issue.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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12/18/2013 11:43:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 6:21:46 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
If someone truly believed in heaven, and one of their family members who is of their faith dies, shouldn't they be happy? Or at the very least only somewhat upset? Or is there something I am missing?

No, you are right. I think the problem comes from the fact that no one can ever know for sure whether our loved-ones are pure of faith or not. Ergo, you can never know what their fate will be. They say that funerals are for the living and not for the dead, which makes a lot of sense. I personally do not believe in a Heaven or a Hell, but it has to be comforting to be able to believe that someone you love has died in peace, believing that they have made the right choice about their own nature.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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12/19/2013 5:31:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/18/2013 9:23:02 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/18/2013 8:27:31 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/18/2013 8:12:10 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/18/2013 6:13:43 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
Okay, I think I got the response for this question that I wanted to get. Thank you all. Except Bornofgod, but I am unsurprised at his response.

One more question.

If hell and heaven are real, and people go to both, and people go to hell for doing things like, not believing in Jesus, or being openly gay, or not worshiping, isn't it awful to have fun in heaven while others suffer? I mean, no matter if it felt like you were getting a blowjob 24/7, isn't is malicious to be happy while good people suffer for crimes that were undeserved? To laugh while people, people you may have known and been friends or family with are screaming in pain? Isn't that awful?

You understand that many Christians don't believe in the idea that people are tortured for all eternity. In fact, I would argue that the Bible absolutely does not teach that.

So I agree with your assessment and critique.

And I'm sure that makes you feel better about your beliefs, but a perusal of jesus' alleged words may be in order.

If you'd like to, I would be more than happy to have a debate with you on the issue.
Perhaps you may wish to do as I suggested first.

For instance Luke 16: 19-31
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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12/19/2013 7:19:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 5:31:31 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/18/2013 9:23:02 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/18/2013 8:27:31 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/18/2013 8:12:10 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/18/2013 6:13:43 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
Okay, I think I got the response for this question that I wanted to get. Thank you all. Except Bornofgod, but I am unsurprised at his response.

One more question.

If hell and heaven are real, and people go to both, and people go to hell for doing things like, not believing in Jesus, or being openly gay, or not worshiping, isn't it awful to have fun in heaven while others suffer? I mean, no matter if it felt like you were getting a blowjob 24/7, isn't is malicious to be happy while good people suffer for crimes that were undeserved? To laugh while people, people you may have known and been friends or family with are screaming in pain? Isn't that awful?

You understand that many Christians don't believe in the idea that people are tortured for all eternity. In fact, I would argue that the Bible absolutely does not teach that.

So I agree with your assessment and critique.

And I'm sure that makes you feel better about your beliefs, but a perusal of jesus' alleged words may be in order.

If you'd like to, I would be more than happy to have a debate with you on the issue.
Perhaps you may wish to do as I suggested first.

For instance Luke 16: 19-31

Curious you would ask me to speak on Jesus' own words on "hell," yet you cited a passage that has absolutely no relevance to this doctrine.

1. In Luke 16:19-31, Jesus is describing a PARABLE. Notice that it takes place in the context of various parables, and take not to how they all begin.

""There was a rich man who was clothed in purple..."
"There was a rich man who had a manager..."
"There was a man who had two sons..."

None of these events were actually historical, he used the stories as parables to convey certain principles to the people watching, (The Pharisees, Scribes, Tax Collectors and Disciples).

The word also used in Luke 16:19-31 is P69;^8;Q31; (Hades) which is the Greek word that summed up the Jewish idea of the afterlife, represented by Sheol in Hebrew (Hades comes from the Septuagint). ^7;^9;^1;_7;_7;Q31; (Gehenna) is a transliteration of a Hebrew word which is translated "The Valley of Hinnom,"which represents a location where children were once sacrificed to Moloch in the OT, and has the thought of the punishment of idolaters.

These are entirely two different words, and better yet, it is used within a parable which was not describing a historical event. Or do you think Jesus thought it was randomly a good idea to tell a story of what it's like in hell, while in the midst of telling parables?

Here is a text for you to chew on, and it actually mentions "hell."

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28 (ESV)

Regards,
TrueScotsman
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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12/19/2013 8:32:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 7:19:33 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/19/2013 5:31:31 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/18/2013 9:23:02 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/18/2013 8:27:31 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/18/2013 8:12:10 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/18/2013 6:13:43 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
Okay, I think I got the response for this question that I wanted to get. Thank you all. Except Bornofgod, but I am unsurprised at his response.

One more question.

If hell and heaven are real, and people go to both, and people go to hell for doing things like, not believing in Jesus, or being openly gay, or not worshiping, isn't it awful to have fun in heaven while others suffer? I mean, no matter if it felt like you were getting a blowjob 24/7, isn't is malicious to be happy while good people suffer for crimes that were undeserved? To laugh while people, people you may have known and been friends or family with are screaming in pain? Isn't that awful?

You understand that many Christians don't believe in the idea that people are tortured for all eternity. In fact, I would argue that the Bible absolutely does not teach that.

So I agree with your assessment and critique.

And I'm sure that makes you feel better about your beliefs, but a perusal of jesus' alleged words may be in order.

If you'd like to, I would be more than happy to have a debate with you on the issue.
Perhaps you may wish to do as I suggested first.

For instance Luke 16: 19-31

Curious you would ask me to speak on Jesus' own words on "hell," yet you cited a passage that has absolutely no relevance to this doctrine.

1. In Luke 16:19-31, Jesus is describing a PARABLE. Notice that it takes place in the context of various parables, and take not to how they all begin.

""There was a rich man who was clothed in purple..."
"There was a rich man who had a manager..."
"There was a man who had two sons..."

None of these events were actually historical, he used the stories as parables to convey certain principles to the people watching, (The Pharisees, Scribes, Tax Collectors and Disciples).

The word also used in Luke 16:19-31 is P69;^8;Q31; (Hades) which is the Greek word that summed up the Jewish idea of the afterlife, represented by Sheol in Hebrew (Hades comes from the Septuagint). ^7;^9;^1;_7;_7;Q31; (Gehenna) is a transliteration of a Hebrew word which is translated "The Valley of Hinnom,"which represents a location where children were once sacrificed to Moloch in the OT, and has the thought of the punishment of idolaters.

These are entirely two different words, and better yet, it is used within a parable which was not describing a historical event. Or do you think Jesus thought it was randomly a good idea to tell a story of what it's like in hell, while in the midst of telling parables?

Here is a text for you to chew on, and it actually mentions "hell."

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28 (ESV)

Regards,
TrueScotsman

And I'm sure you have an obscure interpretation for that as well. Good luck with the things you need to delude yourself with. Death is just a part of life, get over it.
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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12/19/2013 9:15:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 8:32:08 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2013 7:19:33 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/19/2013 5:31:31 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/18/2013 9:23:02 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/18/2013 8:27:31 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/18/2013 8:12:10 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/18/2013 6:13:43 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
Okay, I think I got the response for this question that I wanted to get. Thank you all. Except Bornofgod, but I am unsurprised at his response.

One more question.

If hell and heaven are real, and people go to both, and people go to hell for doing things like, not believing in Jesus, or being openly gay, or not worshiping, isn't it awful to have fun in heaven while others suffer? I mean, no matter if it felt like you were getting a blowjob 24/7, isn't is malicious to be happy while good people suffer for crimes that were undeserved? To laugh while people, people you may have known and been friends or family with are screaming in pain? Isn't that awful?

You understand that many Christians don't believe in the idea that people are tortured for all eternity. In fact, I would argue that the Bible absolutely does not teach that.

So I agree with your assessment and critique.

And I'm sure that makes you feel better about your beliefs, but a perusal of jesus' alleged words may be in order.

If you'd like to, I would be more than happy to have a debate with you on the issue.
Perhaps you may wish to do as I suggested first.

For instance Luke 16: 19-31

Curious you would ask me to speak on Jesus' own words on "hell," yet you cited a passage that has absolutely no relevance to this doctrine.

1. In Luke 16:19-31, Jesus is describing a PARABLE. Notice that it takes place in the context of various parables, and take not to how they all begin.

""There was a rich man who was clothed in purple..."
"There was a rich man who had a manager..."
"There was a man who had two sons..."

None of these events were actually historical, he used the stories as parables to convey certain principles to the people watching, (The Pharisees, Scribes, Tax Collectors and Disciples).

The word also used in Luke 16:19-31 is P69;^8;Q31; (Hades) which is the Greek word that summed up the Jewish idea of the afterlife, represented by Sheol in Hebrew (Hades comes from the Septuagint). ^7;^9;^1;_7;_7;Q31; (Gehenna) is a transliteration of a Hebrew word which is translated "The Valley of Hinnom,"which represents a location where children were once sacrificed to Moloch in the OT, and has the thought of the punishment of idolaters.

These are entirely two different words, and better yet, it is used within a parable which was not describing a historical event. Or do you think Jesus thought it was randomly a good idea to tell a story of what it's like in hell, while in the midst of telling parables?

Here is a text for you to chew on, and it actually mentions "hell."

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28 (ESV)

Regards,
TrueScotsman

And I'm sure you have an obscure interpretation for that as well. Good luck with the things you need to delude yourself with. Death is just a part of life, get over it.

Hmm.. I answer your question and addressed the text, for which you had no rebuttal besides attacking me personally.

Then when I present a text for you to address (the same standard you were holding me to), you refuse.

Who is the one deluding themselves here? There is not a single question I will not answer, and I will do so with factual evidence (please demonstrate how anything I said was in error).

And my interpretation is only obscure to those who seemingly have not actually studied the topic in depth.

Regards,
TrueScotsman
TrueScotsman
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12/19/2013 9:21:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 5:31:31 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/18/2013 9:23:02 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/18/2013 8:27:31 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/18/2013 8:12:10 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/18/2013 6:13:43 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
Okay, I think I got the response for this question that I wanted to get. Thank you all. Except Bornofgod, but I am unsurprised at his response.

One more question.

If hell and heaven are real, and people go to both, and people go to hell for doing things like, not believing in Jesus, or being openly gay, or not worshiping, isn't it awful to have fun in heaven while others suffer? I mean, no matter if it felt like you were getting a blowjob 24/7, isn't is malicious to be happy while good people suffer for crimes that were undeserved? To laugh while people, people you may have known and been friends or family with are screaming in pain? Isn't that awful?

You understand that many Christians don't believe in the idea that people are tortured for all eternity. In fact, I would argue that the Bible absolutely does not teach that.

So I agree with your assessment and critique.

And I'm sure that makes you feel better about your beliefs, but a perusal of jesus' alleged words may be in order.

If you'd like to, I would be more than happy to have a debate with you on the issue.
Perhaps you may wish to do as I suggested first.

For instance Luke 16: 19-31

What's also interesting is that you refused to accept my challenge to debate on the matter in addition to refusing to address the single text I presented.

Is this a pattern where you demand proof from others, but offer none yourself?

Regards,
TrueScotsman
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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1/16/2014 12:54:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 9:15:14 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 12/19/2013 8:32:08 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2013 7:19:33 AM, TrueScotsman wrote:

Curious you would ask me to speak on Jesus' own words on "hell," yet you cited a passage that has absolutely no relevance to this doctrine.

You will find that to be par for the course for bulproof. He can't defend anything he says. Doesn't what to even if he could. He will simply post another verse as if THAT in itself is an argument.

Hmm.. I answer your question and addressed the text, for which you had no rebuttal besides attacking me personally.

That is his style. He's a troll attempting a flame war. If you respond intelligently he doesn't like that. When he realizes you're serious and intelligent, he gets vulgar.

Who is the one deluding themselves here? There is not a single question I will not answer, and I will do so with factual evidence (please demonstrate how anything I said was in error).

He can't and wouldn't if he could. He will simply say your reply was in error, and post yet another Bible verse. In that way he's sort of like BoG.

Just use him, (and composer) as target practice knowing that other readers will see their lack of logic and civility and know without comment that they behaved the way they did because their arguments and worldview are lacking.

They're good for lulz too.
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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1/16/2014 6:50:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/17/2013 6:21:46 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
If someone truly believed in heaven, and one of their family members who is of their faith dies, shouldn't they be happy? Or at the very least only somewhat upset? Or is there something I am missing?

This is something I have never fully grasped regarding religion. Its sad because we are human and that the natural response.

What intrigues me more is why some theist will go through financially burdening procedures and life lengthening procedures when heaven awaits and god is capable of everything? Also these procedures often burden the family not themselves, so I guess that's kind of evil if you know you are going to heaven.