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A simple example of the design in creation

MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/18/2013 3:46:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What is that simple, rarely considered example - ice.

Of the many things that demonstrate the fact that design is involved in creation, ice is the simplest and most obvious.

Why?

Well consider this.

Water is unique in that when it freezes and becomes a solid it becomes less dense, whereas every other substance does the exact opposite.

Why is that an example of design?

Well consider the consequences if that were not the case.

If it were not so this planet would be a completely uninhabitable ball of ice, because any water that froze would sink to the bottom of the ocean, and the ocean would slowly have become a solid block, too solid and too cold fro the ice ever to thaw.

So is it an accident that water, the most vital of substances for life, is so unique?

Of course not, it is significant and demonstrable evidence of design which is evidence of a designer and creator, i. e. God.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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12/18/2013 4:17:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think you should have to argue that there's something special about protons, neutrons, and electrons. After all, given the properties of protons, neutrons, and electrons, the properties of water are inevitable.

Since the periodic table has elements with protons numbering from 1 (in the case of hydrogen) to 112 (or whatever), there's nothing about the existence of Oxygen or hydrogen that requires a designer. You just need one proton for hydrogen and eight for oxygen, plus neutrons and electrons.

Given the properties of electrons, protons, and neutrons, and given that hydrogen and oxygen are made of them, their chemical properties are inevitable. They're determined. They couldn't have been otherwise. So when they combine to form water, the properties of water are also determined and couldn't have been otherwise.

So you've got to argue that the properties of protons, electrons, and neutrons require a designer. Or you could argue that the creation of the rest of the elements requires a designer.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/18/2013 10:16:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/18/2013 3:46:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
What is that simple, rarely considered example - ice.

Of the many things that demonstrate the fact that design is involved in creation, ice is the simplest and most obvious.

Why?

Well consider this.

Water is unique in that when it freezes and becomes a solid it becomes less dense, whereas every other substance does the exact opposite.

Why is that an example of design?

Well consider the consequences if that were not the case.

If it were not so this planet would be a completely uninhabitable ball of ice, because any water that froze would sink to the bottom of the ocean, and the ocean would slowly have become a solid block, too solid and too cold fro the ice ever to thaw.

So is it an accident that water, the most vital of substances for life, is so unique?

Of course not, it is significant and demonstrable evidence of design which is evidence of a designer and creator, i. e. God.

Ice isn't created. It's only an illusion from processed information to make God's people believe this world is real. What's created is God's thoughts spoken into wavelengths of energy, where all illusions come from but only as energy is processed through His created "beings".
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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12/19/2013 12:19:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/18/2013 3:46:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
What is that simple, rarely considered example - ice.

Of the many things that demonstrate the fact that design is involved in creation, ice is the simplest and most obvious.

Why?

Well consider this.

Water is unique in that when it freezes and becomes a solid it becomes less dense, whereas every other substance does the exact opposite.

Why is that an example of design?

Well consider the consequences if that were not the case.

If it were not so this planet would be a completely uninhabitable ball of ice, because any water that froze would sink to the bottom of the ocean, and the ocean would slowly have become a solid block, too solid and too cold fro the ice ever to thaw.

So is it an accident that water, the most vital of substances for life, is so unique?

Of course not, it is significant and demonstrable evidence of design which is evidence of a designer and creator, i. e. God.

This question is for interest as your post is false. Why does a unique substance imply design?

Also you are wrong, as Silicon has a liquid density which is larger than its solid state density. Hence solid silicon can float on liquid silicon.

This means your argument for design is false.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/19/2013 1:58:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 12:19:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/18/2013 3:46:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
What is that simple, rarely considered example - ice.

Of the many things that demonstrate the fact that design is involved in creation, ice is the simplest and most obvious.

Why?

Well consider this.

Water is unique in that when it freezes and becomes a solid it becomes less dense, whereas every other substance does the exact opposite.

Why is that an example of design?

Well consider the consequences if that were not the case.

If it were not so this planet would be a completely uninhabitable ball of ice, because any water that froze would sink to the bottom of the ocean, and the ocean would slowly have become a solid block, too solid and too cold fro the ice ever to thaw.

So is it an accident that water, the most vital of substances for life, is so unique?

Of course not, it is significant and demonstrable evidence of design which is evidence of a designer and creator, i. e. God.

This question is for interest as your post is false. Why does a unique substance imply design?

Also you are wrong, as Silicon has a liquid density which is larger than its solid state density. Hence solid silicon can float on liquid silicon.

This means your argument for design is false.

OK I'll concede that last point, at least for now, because I was simply going by the words of two scientists who specialise in studying Ice and it's "unique" properties.

However I suspect my error was more in the sense of not specifying that I was talking about substances which are liquid on their "normal" state at temperatures above freezing point, which would, I believe, have excluded silicon.

As for you first point, the reason it bespeaks design is that without it being that ways, human life would not have been possible, and the chances of water being the only substance, liquid at "normal" temperatures with that property without design being involved, are so astronomical as to be virtually impossible.

I agree it is not absolute proof, but it is very strong evidence, and I did after all call it evidence, not absolute proof.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/19/2013 2:02:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/18/2013 4:17:23 PM, philochristos wrote:
I think you should have to argue that there's something special about protons, neutrons, and electrons. After all, given the properties of protons, neutrons, and electrons, the properties of water are inevitable.

Since the periodic table has elements with protons numbering from 1 (in the case of hydrogen) to 112 (or whatever), there's nothing about the existence of Oxygen or hydrogen that requires a designer. You just need one proton for hydrogen and eight for oxygen, plus neutrons and electrons.

Given the properties of electrons, protons, and neutrons, and given that hydrogen and oxygen are made of them, their chemical properties are inevitable. They're determined. They couldn't have been otherwise. So when they combine to form water, the properties of water are also determined and couldn't have been otherwise.

So you've got to argue that the properties of protons, electrons, and neutrons require a designer. Or you could argue that the creation of the rest of the elements requires a designer.

Oh I do argue thus, if only because I see the obvious evidence, if not absolute proof, of design in so many things around me, and frequently wonder why people refuse to see, and it is refuse to see not fail to see, such obvious evidence which to me makes the case for creation extremely solid indeed.

And yes, I know some people avoid accepting it because they don;t want to, I was one myself once so I recognise it all too easily when I see it. However if you like truth the evidence eventually overwhelms you.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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12/19/2013 5:18:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 1:58:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 12:19:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/18/2013 3:46:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
What is that simple, rarely considered example - ice.

Of the many things that demonstrate the fact that design is involved in creation, ice is the simplest and most obvious.

Why?

Well consider this.

Water is unique in that when it freezes and becomes a solid it becomes less dense, whereas every other substance does the exact opposite.

Why is that an example of design?

Well consider the consequences if that were not the case.

If it were not so this planet would be a completely uninhabitable ball of ice, because any water that froze would sink to the bottom of the ocean, and the ocean would slowly have become a solid block, too solid and too cold fro the ice ever to thaw.

So is it an accident that water, the most vital of substances for life, is so unique?

Of course not, it is significant and demonstrable evidence of design which is evidence of a designer and creator, i. e. God.

This question is for interest as your post is false. Why does a unique substance imply design?

Also you are wrong, as Silicon has a liquid density which is larger than its solid state density. Hence solid silicon can float on liquid silicon.

This means your argument for design is false.

OK I'll concede that last point, at least for now, because I was simply going by the words of two scientists who specialise in studying Ice and it's "unique" properties.

However I suspect my error was more in the sense of not specifying that I was talking about substances which are liquid on their "normal" state at temperatures above freezing point, which would, I believe, have excluded silicon.

As for you first point, the reason it bespeaks design is that without it being that ways, human life would not have been possible, and the chances of water being the only substance, liquid at "normal" temperatures with that property without design being involved, are so astronomical as to be virtually impossible.

I agree it is not absolute proof, but it is very strong evidence, and I did after all call it evidence, not absolute proof.

Care to support the bolded at the same time as you posit an omnipotent god?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/19/2013 6:09:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 5:18:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2013 1:58:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 12:19:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/18/2013 3:46:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
What is that simple, rarely considered example - ice.

Of the many things that demonstrate the fact that design is involved in creation, ice is the simplest and most obvious.

Why?

Well consider this.

Water is unique in that when it freezes and becomes a solid it becomes less dense, whereas every other substance does the exact opposite.

Why is that an example of design?

Well consider the consequences if that were not the case.

If it were not so this planet would be a completely uninhabitable ball of ice, because any water that froze would sink to the bottom of the ocean, and the ocean would slowly have become a solid block, too solid and too cold fro the ice ever to thaw.

So is it an accident that water, the most vital of substances for life, is so unique?

Of course not, it is significant and demonstrable evidence of design which is evidence of a designer and creator, i. e. God.

This question is for interest as your post is false. Why does a unique substance imply design?

Also you are wrong, as Silicon has a liquid density which is larger than its solid state density. Hence solid silicon can float on liquid silicon.

This means your argument for design is false.

OK I'll concede that last point, at least for now, because I was simply going by the words of two scientists who specialise in studying Ice and it's "unique" properties.

However I suspect my error was more in the sense of not specifying that I was talking about substances which are liquid on their "normal" state at temperatures above freezing point, which would, I believe, have excluded silicon.

As for you first point, the reason it bespeaks design is that without it being that ways, human life would not have been possible, and the chances of water being the only substance, liquid at "normal" temperatures with that property without design being involved, are so astronomical as to be virtually impossible.

I agree it is not absolute proof, but it is very strong evidence, and I did after all call it evidence, not absolute proof.

Care to support the bolded at the same time as you posit an omnipotent god?

Would logic do?

If this entire earth were nothing but a ball of Ice, would it be possible?

Since the seas are a major source of oxygen to support life, thanks to Plankton, and the Wooded areas provide most of the rest, where would oxygen come from if there were only Ice, which there would be if ice sank on freezing rather that floating?

The effect on global weather would be catastrophic, and the globe would have an average temperature roughly equivalent to Antarctica, where human life is unsustainable without protection and technology.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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12/19/2013 6:42:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 6:09:08 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 5:18:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2013 1:58:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 12:19:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/18/2013 3:46:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
What is that simple, rarely considered example - ice.

Of the many things that demonstrate the fact that design is involved in creation, ice is the simplest and most obvious.

Why?

Well consider this.

Water is unique in that when it freezes and becomes a solid it becomes less dense, whereas every other substance does the exact opposite.

Why is that an example of design?

Well consider the consequences if that were not the case.

If it were not so this planet would be a completely uninhabitable ball of ice, because any water that froze would sink to the bottom of the ocean, and the ocean would slowly have become a solid block, too solid and too cold fro the ice ever to thaw.

So is it an accident that water, the most vital of substances for life, is so unique?

Of course not, it is significant and demonstrable evidence of design which is evidence of a designer and creator, i. e. God.

This question is for interest as your post is false. Why does a unique substance imply design?

Also you are wrong, as Silicon has a liquid density which is larger than its solid state density. Hence solid silicon can float on liquid silicon.

This means your argument for design is false.

OK I'll concede that last point, at least for now, because I was simply going by the words of two scientists who specialise in studying Ice and it's "unique" properties.

However I suspect my error was more in the sense of not specifying that I was talking about substances which are liquid on their "normal" state at temperatures above freezing point, which would, I believe, have excluded silicon.

As for you first point, the reason it bespeaks design is that without it being that ways, human life would not have been possible, and the chances of water being the only substance, liquid at "normal" temperatures with that property without design being involved, are so astronomical as to be virtually impossible.

I agree it is not absolute proof, but it is very strong evidence, and I did after all call it evidence, not absolute proof.

Care to support the bolded at the same time as you posit an omnipotent god?

Would logic do?

If this entire earth were nothing but a ball of Ice, would it be possible?

Since the seas are a major source of oxygen to support life, thanks to Plankton, and the Wooded areas provide most of the rest, where would oxygen come from if there were only Ice, which there would be if ice sank on freezing rather that floating?

The effect on global weather would be catastrophic, and the globe would have an average temperature roughly equivalent to Antarctica, where human life is unsustainable without protection and technology.

So your god is not omnipotent? He needs everything working in his favour or there is no life?

Well done madman you just reduced your god to a life form slightly higher than you, but not to the level of humans.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/19/2013 6:53:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 6:42:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2013 6:09:08 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 5:18:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2013 1:58:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 12:19:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/18/2013 3:46:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
What is that simple, rarely considered example - ice.

Of the many things that demonstrate the fact that design is involved in creation, ice is the simplest and most obvious.

Why?

Well consider this.

Water is unique in that when it freezes and becomes a solid it becomes less dense, whereas every other substance does the exact opposite.

Why is that an example of design?

Well consider the consequences if that were not the case.

If it were not so this planet would be a completely uninhabitable ball of ice, because any water that froze would sink to the bottom of the ocean, and the ocean would slowly have become a solid block, too solid and too cold fro the ice ever to thaw.

So is it an accident that water, the most vital of substances for life, is so unique?

Of course not, it is significant and demonstrable evidence of design which is evidence of a designer and creator, i. e. God.

This question is for interest as your post is false. Why does a unique substance imply design?

Also you are wrong, as Silicon has a liquid density which is larger than its solid state density. Hence solid silicon can float on liquid silicon.

This means your argument for design is false.

OK I'll concede that last point, at least for now, because I was simply going by the words of two scientists who specialise in studying Ice and it's "unique" properties.

However I suspect my error was more in the sense of not specifying that I was talking about substances which are liquid on their "normal" state at temperatures above freezing point, which would, I believe, have excluded silicon.

As for you first point, the reason it bespeaks design is that without it being that ways, human life would not have been possible, and the chances of water being the only substance, liquid at "normal" temperatures with that property without design being involved, are so astronomical as to be virtually impossible.

I agree it is not absolute proof, but it is very strong evidence, and I did after all call it evidence, not absolute proof.

Care to support the bolded at the same time as you posit an omnipotent god?

Would logic do?

If this entire earth were nothing but a ball of Ice, would it be possible?

Since the seas are a major source of oxygen to support life, thanks to Plankton, and the Wooded areas provide most of the rest, where would oxygen come from if there were only Ice, which there would be if ice sank on freezing rather that floating?

The effect on global weather would be catastrophic, and the globe would have an average temperature roughly equivalent to Antarctica, where human life is unsustainable without protection and technology.

So your god is not omnipotent? He needs everything working in his favour or there is no life?

Well done madman you just reduced your god to a life form slightly higher than you, but not to the level of humans.

I have no idea how you have managed to arrive at that.

Everything in nature works in his favour because he designed it to work that way so that there could be life.

Simple, see? somehow I doubt if you do, but I am not sure why.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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12/19/2013 6:58:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 6:53:19 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 6:42:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2013 6:09:08 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 5:18:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2013 1:58:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 12:19:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/18/2013 3:46:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
What is that simple, rarely considered example - ice.

Of the many things that demonstrate the fact that design is involved in creation, ice is the simplest and most obvious.

Why?

Well consider this.

Water is unique in that when it freezes and becomes a solid it becomes less dense, whereas every other substance does the exact opposite.

Why is that an example of design?

Well consider the consequences if that were not the case.

If it were not so this planet would be a completely uninhabitable ball of ice, because any water that froze would sink to the bottom of the ocean, and the ocean would slowly have become a solid block, too solid and too cold fro the ice ever to thaw.

So is it an accident that water, the most vital of substances for life, is so unique?

Of course not, it is significant and demonstrable evidence of design which is evidence of a designer and creator, i. e. God.

This question is for interest as your post is false. Why does a unique substance imply design?

Also you are wrong, as Silicon has a liquid density which is larger than its solid state density. Hence solid silicon can float on liquid silicon.

This means your argument for design is false.

OK I'll concede that last point, at least for now, because I was simply going by the words of two scientists who specialise in studying Ice and it's "unique" properties.

However I suspect my error was more in the sense of not specifying that I was talking about substances which are liquid on their "normal" state at temperatures above freezing point, which would, I believe, have excluded silicon.

As for you first point, the reason it bespeaks design is that without it being that ways, human life would not have been possible, and the chances of water being the only substance, liquid at "normal" temperatures with that property without design being involved, are so astronomical as to be virtually impossible.

I agree it is not absolute proof, but it is very strong evidence, and I did after all call it evidence, not absolute proof.

Care to support the bolded at the same time as you posit an omnipotent god?

Would logic do?

If this entire earth were nothing but a ball of Ice, would it be possible?

Since the seas are a major source of oxygen to support life, thanks to Plankton, and the Wooded areas provide most of the rest, where would oxygen come from if there were only Ice, which there would be if ice sank on freezing rather that floating?

The effect on global weather would be catastrophic, and the globe would have an average temperature roughly equivalent to Antarctica, where human life is unsustainable without protection and technology.

So your god is not omnipotent? He needs everything working in his favour or there is no life?

Well done madman you just reduced your god to a life form slightly higher than you, but not to the level of humans.

I have no idea how you have managed to arrive at that.

Everything in nature works in his favour because he designed it to work that way so that there could be life.

Simple, see? somehow I doubt if you do, but I am not sure why.

Your god is allegedly omnipotent, he needs absolutely nothing to work in his favour, whether created those conditions or not.

He can create and sustain life under any circumstances he wishes.

The fact that we can't exist without the conditions under which we live actually proves that either your god is not omnipotent or in fact your god does not exist.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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12/19/2013 7:00:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
@madman

Oh and I'm not surprised at all that you don't GET IT
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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12/19/2013 8:42:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 1:58:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 12:19:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/18/2013 3:46:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
What is that simple, rarely considered example - ice.

Of the many things that demonstrate the fact that design is involved in creation, ice is the simplest and most obvious.

Why?

Well consider this.

Water is unique in that when it freezes and becomes a solid it becomes less dense, whereas every other substance does the exact opposite.

Why is that an example of design?

Well consider the consequences if that were not the case.

If it were not so this planet would be a completely uninhabitable ball of ice, because any water that froze would sink to the bottom of the ocean, and the ocean would slowly have become a solid block, too solid and too cold fro the ice ever to thaw.

So is it an accident that water, the most vital of substances for life, is so unique?

Of course not, it is significant and demonstrable evidence of design which is evidence of a designer and creator, i. e. God.

This question is for interest as your post is false. Why does a unique substance imply design?

Also you are wrong, as Silicon has a liquid density which is larger than its solid state density. Hence solid silicon can float on liquid silicon.

This means your argument for design is false.

OK I'll concede that last point, at least for now, because I was simply going by the words of two scientists who specialise in studying Ice and it's "unique" properties.

However I suspect my error was more in the sense of not specifying that I was talking about substances which are liquid on their "normal" state at temperatures above freezing point, which would, I believe, have excluded silicon.

As for you first point, the reason it bespeaks design is that without it being that ways, human life would not have been possible, and the chances of water being the only substance, liquid at "normal" temperatures with that property without design being involved, are so astronomical as to be virtually impossible.

I agree it is not absolute proof, but it is very strong evidence, and I did after all call it evidence, not absolute proof.

I understand what you are saying, yet water is essential as we are a carbon based life form that has developed under certain conditions. Now imagine if the life forms were silicon or nitrogen, then water would not be required, but some other substance. This does not require design bu rather chemicals that cooperate.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/19/2013 8:49:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 6:58:37 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2013 6:53:19 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 6:42:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2013 6:09:08 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 5:18:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2013 1:58:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 12:19:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/18/2013 3:46:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
What is that simple, rarely considered example - ice.

Of the many things that demonstrate the fact that design is involved in creation, ice is the simplest and most obvious.

Why?

Well consider this.

Water is unique in that when it freezes and becomes a solid it becomes less dense, whereas every other substance does the exact opposite.

Why is that an example of design?

Well consider the consequences if that were not the case.

If it were not so this planet would be a completely uninhabitable ball of ice, because any water that froze would sink to the bottom of the ocean, and the ocean would slowly have become a solid block, too solid and too cold fro the ice ever to thaw.

So is it an accident that water, the most vital of substances for life, is so unique?

Of course not, it is significant and demonstrable evidence of design which is evidence of a designer and creator, i. e. God.

This question is for interest as your post is false. Why does a unique substance imply design?

Also you are wrong, as Silicon has a liquid density which is larger than its solid state density. Hence solid silicon can float on liquid silicon.

This means your argument for design is false.

OK I'll concede that last point, at least for now, because I was simply going by the words of two scientists who specialise in studying Ice and it's "unique" properties.

However I suspect my error was more in the sense of not specifying that I was talking about substances which are liquid on their "normal" state at temperatures above freezing point, which would, I believe, have excluded silicon.

As for you first point, the reason it bespeaks design is that without it being that ways, human life would not have been possible, and the chances of water being the only substance, liquid at "normal" temperatures with that property without design being involved, are so astronomical as to be virtually impossible.

I agree it is not absolute proof, but it is very strong evidence, and I did after all call it evidence, not absolute proof.

Care to support the bolded at the same time as you posit an omnipotent god?

Would logic do?

If this entire earth were nothing but a ball of Ice, would it be possible?

Since the seas are a major source of oxygen to support life, thanks to Plankton, and the Wooded areas provide most of the rest, where would oxygen come from if there were only Ice, which there would be if ice sank on freezing rather that floating?

The effect on global weather would be catastrophic, and the globe would have an average temperature roughly equivalent to Antarctica, where human life is unsustainable without protection and technology.

So your god is not omnipotent? He needs everything working in his favour or there is no life?

Well done madman you just reduced your god to a life form slightly higher than you, but not to the level of humans.

I have no idea how you have managed to arrive at that.

Everything in nature works in his favour because he designed it to work that way so that there could be life.

Simple, see? somehow I doubt if you do, but I am not sure why.

Your god is allegedly omnipotent, he needs absolutely nothing to work in his favour, whether created those conditions or not.

He can create and sustain life under any circumstances he wishes.

The fact that we can't exist without the conditions under which we live actually proves that either your god is not omnipotent or in fact your god does not exist.

Omnipotent means that he can do whatever he wants, it does not mean that he wants to do everything he can. Do you get that??

It's called self restraint.
biomystic
Posts: 606
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12/19/2013 8:58:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Yes, but is silicon elevated to religious authority? In Celestial Torah Christianity the Sign of Aquarius, which is the Egyptian hieroglyph for "water" and their word for it, "mu", forms the religious and linguistic basis for the name of Moses, "Musa", "drawn out of WATER". Aquarius as the Water Bearer, the one who anoints the world with Living Waters as Jesus tells of himself, well, atheists, this our God, your God, embedding primary Creation truths within Creation's unfolding for us to make our way straight--eventually to God because human beings are theotropic creatures.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/19/2013 8:59:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 8:42:14 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/19/2013 1:58:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 12:19:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/18/2013 3:46:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
What is that simple, rarely considered example - ice.

Of the many things that demonstrate the fact that design is involved in creation, ice is the simplest and most obvious.

Why?

Well consider this.

Water is unique in that when it freezes and becomes a solid it becomes less dense, whereas every other substance does the exact opposite.

Why is that an example of design?

Well consider the consequences if that were not the case.

If it were not so this planet would be a completely uninhabitable ball of ice, because any water that froze would sink to the bottom of the ocean, and the ocean would slowly have become a solid block, too solid and too cold fro the ice ever to thaw.

So is it an accident that water, the most vital of substances for life, is so unique?

Of course not, it is significant and demonstrable evidence of design which is evidence of a designer and creator, i. e. God.

This question is for interest as your post is false. Why does a unique substance imply design?

Also you are wrong, as Silicon has a liquid density which is larger than its solid state density. Hence solid silicon can float on liquid silicon.

This means your argument for design is false.

OK I'll concede that last point, at least for now, because I was simply going by the words of two scientists who specialise in studying Ice and it's "unique" properties.

However I suspect my error was more in the sense of not specifying that I was talking about substances which are liquid on their "normal" state at temperatures above freezing point, which would, I believe, have excluded silicon.

As for you first point, the reason it bespeaks design is that without it being that ways, human life would not have been possible, and the chances of water being the only substance, liquid at "normal" temperatures with that property without design being involved, are so astronomical as to be virtually impossible.

I agree it is not absolute proof, but it is very strong evidence, and I did after all call it evidence, not absolute proof.

I understand what you are saying, yet water is essential as we are a carbon based life form that has developed under certain conditions. Now imagine if the life forms were silicon or nitrogen, then water would not be required, but some other substance. This does not require design but rather chemicals that cooperate.

Except that we were not designed as such, that is not what God wanted.

However I do know what you mean because of the life forms that have developed in such places as the Alkaline lakes in Tanzania (Lake Natron I believe), which are caustic to the vast majority of life on earth,l but home to a bacterium that Flamingoes eat.

Also the life forms which develop in the ocean by sulphurous "chimneys" in the deeper sea regions.

Life is found in the most remarkable places, and doubtless similar simple life forms will be found even in space, but that means little. God crated a world in which intelligent life could be given a home, and if he had felt that would be achievable any other way I don't doubt he would have done so.

They say that there is no-one more zealous than a convert, and such I am because I have been an atheist until I finally had to admit what a truly untenable position it is.
MadCornishBiker
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12/19/2013 9:04:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 8:58:37 AM, biomystic wrote:
Yes, but is silicon elevated to religious authority? In Celestial Torah Christianity the Sign of Aquarius, which is the Egyptian hieroglyph for "water" and their word for it, "mu", forms the religious and linguistic basis for the name of Moses, "Musa", "drawn out of WATER". Aquarius as the Water Bearer, the one who anoints the world with Living Waters as Jesus tells of himself, well, atheists, this our God, your God, embedding primary Creation truths within Creation's unfolding for us to make our way straight--eventually to God because human beings are theotropic creatures.

Well Moses was discovered floating in a basket in the water so that is hardly surprising.

However Astrology is one of the many things that God condemns, as he said when condemning all forms of fortune telling,, "should not one inquire of one's God about his future". Of course inquiring of him does not mean he will inform us if he doesn't feel it is good that we should know.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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12/19/2013 9:54:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 9:04:09 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 8:58:37 AM, biomystic wrote:
Yes, but is silicon elevated to religious authority? In Celestial Torah Christianity the Sign of Aquarius, which is the Egyptian hieroglyph for "water" and their word for it, "mu", forms the religious and linguistic basis for the name of Moses, "Musa", "drawn out of WATER". Aquarius as the Water Bearer, the one who anoints the world with Living Waters as Jesus tells of himself, well, atheists, this our God, your God, embedding primary Creation truths within Creation's unfolding for us to make our way straight--eventually to God because human beings are theotropic creatures.

Well Moses was discovered floating in a basket in the water so that is hardly surprising.

However Astrology is one of the many things that God condemns, as he said when condemning all forms of fortune telling,, "should not one inquire of one's God about his future". Of course inquiring of him does not mean he will inform us if he doesn't feel it is good that we should know.

As long as you people believe the things you see in this world as something real, you will be deceived of the Truth and how we were created.

Ice is only an ILLUSION like everything else in this world that we see. We won't see ICE or snow on the earth in the next age but that doesn't rule out seeing these things in our individual visions and dreams.
biomystic
Posts: 606
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12/19/2013 5:01:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 9:04:09 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 8:58:37 AM, biomystic wrote:
Yes, but is silicon elevated to religious authority? In Celestial Torah Christianity the Sign of Aquarius, which is the Egyptian hieroglyph for "water" and their word for it, "mu", forms the religious and linguistic basis for the name of Moses, "Musa", "drawn out of WATER". Aquarius as the Water Bearer, the one who anoints the world with Living Waters as Jesus tells of himself, well, atheists, this our God, your God, embedding primary Creation truths within Creation's unfolding for us to make our way straight--eventually to God because human beings are theotropic creatures.

Well Moses was discovered floating in a basket in the water so that is hardly surprising.

However Astrology is one of the many things that God condemns, as he said when condemning all forms of fortune telling,, "should not one inquire of one's God about his future". Of course inquiring of him does not mean he will inform us if he doesn't feel it is good that we should know.

Wrong. Astrology is one of the many things the priests of Judah condemned and then the Roman Catholic priests following them. But God never condemned astrology. You need to read Genesis One more carefully and remember this verse: "Then God said, 'Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and >let them be for SIGNS and for seasons, and for days and years."

I am a Celestial Torah Christian as the Celestial Torah forms the spiritual basis for the earthly Torah which was compromised by spiritual truth being made to serve tribal politics. Judah lost the spiritual knowledge of the Celestial Torah but it's been recovered now and has always been the root of the Messiah/Christ/Anointed One theology. I caution you and all Pauline Christians not to be paper and ink idolators, i.e. thinking that God only talks through the Judeo-Christian Bible.
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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12/19/2013 5:24:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 8:59:06 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 8:42:14 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/19/2013 1:58:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 12:19:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/18/2013 3:46:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
What is that simple, rarely considered example - ice.

Of the many things that demonstrate the fact that design is involved in creation, ice is the simplest and most obvious.

Why?

Well consider this.

Water is unique in that when it freezes and becomes a solid it becomes less dense, whereas every other substance does the exact opposite.

Why is that an example of design?

Well consider the consequences if that were not the case.

If it were not so this planet would be a completely uninhabitable ball of ice, because any water that froze would sink to the bottom of the ocean, and the ocean would slowly have become a solid block, too solid and too cold fro the ice ever to thaw.

So is it an accident that water, the most vital of substances for life, is so unique?

Of course not, it is significant and demonstrable evidence of design which is evidence of a designer and creator, i. e. God.

This question is for interest as your post is false. Why does a unique substance imply design?

Also you are wrong, as Silicon has a liquid density which is larger than its solid state density. Hence solid silicon can float on liquid silicon.

This means your argument for design is false.

OK I'll concede that last point, at least for now, because I was simply going by the words of two scientists who specialise in studying Ice and it's "unique" properties.

However I suspect my error was more in the sense of not specifying that I was talking about substances which are liquid on their "normal" state at temperatures above freezing point, which would, I believe, have excluded silicon.

As for you first point, the reason it bespeaks design is that without it being that ways, human life would not have been possible, and the chances of water being the only substance, liquid at "normal" temperatures with that property without design being involved, are so astronomical as to be virtually impossible.

I agree it is not absolute proof, but it is very strong evidence, and I did after all call it evidence, not absolute proof.

I understand what you are saying, yet water is essential as we are a carbon based life form that has developed under certain conditions. Now imagine if the life forms were silicon or nitrogen, then water would not be required, but some other substance. This does not require design but rather chemicals that cooperate.

Except that we were not designed as such, that is not what God wanted.

However I do know what you mean because of the life forms that have developed in such places as the Alkaline lakes in Tanzania (Lake Natron I believe), which are caustic to the vast majority of life on earth,l but home to a bacterium that Flamingoes eat.

Also the life forms which develop in the ocean by sulphurous "chimneys" in the deeper sea regions.

Life is found in the most remarkable places, and doubtless similar simple life forms will be found even in space, but that means little. God crated a world in which intelligent life could be given a home, and if he had felt that would be achievable any other way I don't doubt he would have done so.

They say that there is no-one more zealous than a convert, and such I am because I have been an atheist until I finally had to admit what a truly untenable position it is.

In other words, it requires a presupposition.
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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12/19/2013 5:25:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 8:58:37 AM, biomystic wrote:
Yes, but is silicon elevated to religious authority? In Celestial Torah Christianity the Sign of Aquarius, which is the Egyptian hieroglyph for "water" and their word for it, "mu", forms the religious and linguistic basis for the name of Moses, "Musa", "drawn out of WATER". Aquarius as the Water Bearer, the one who anoints the world with Living Waters as Jesus tells of himself, well, atheists, this our God, your God, embedding primary Creation truths within Creation's unfolding for us to make our way straight--eventually to God because human beings are theotropic creatures.

Proof? Or is this just a rant of what you believe and comes from personal untestable claims.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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12/19/2013 7:26:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 8:49:37 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 6:58:37 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2013 6:53:19 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 6:42:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2013 6:09:08 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 5:18:56 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 12/19/2013 1:58:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 12:19:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/18/2013 3:46:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
What is that simple, rarely considered example - ice.

Of the many things that demonstrate the fact that design is involved in creation, ice is the simplest and most obvious.

Why?

Well consider this.

Water is unique in that when it freezes and becomes a solid it becomes less dense, whereas every other substance does the exact opposite.

Why is that an example of design?

Well consider the consequences if that were not the case.

If it were not so this planet would be a completely uninhabitable ball of ice, because any water that froze would sink to the bottom of the ocean, and the ocean would slowly have become a solid block, too solid and too cold fro the ice ever to thaw.

So is it an accident that water, the most vital of substances for life, is so unique?

Of course not, it is significant and demonstrable evidence of design which is evidence of a designer and creator, i. e. God.

This question is for interest as your post is false. Why does a unique substance imply design?

Also you are wrong, as Silicon has a liquid density which is larger than its solid state density. Hence solid silicon can float on liquid silicon.

This means your argument for design is false.

OK I'll concede that last point, at least for now, because I was simply going by the words of two scientists who specialise in studying Ice and it's "unique" properties.

However I suspect my error was more in the sense of not specifying that I was talking about substances which are liquid on their "normal" state at temperatures above freezing point, which would, I believe, have excluded silicon.

As for you first point, the reason it bespeaks design is that without it being that ways, human life would not have been possible, and the chances of water being the only substance, liquid at "normal" temperatures with that property without design being involved, are so astronomical as to be virtually impossible.

I agree it is not absolute proof, but it is very strong evidence, and I did after all call it evidence, not absolute proof.

Care to support the bolded at the same time as you posit an omnipotent god?

Would logic do?

If this entire earth were nothing but a ball of Ice, would it be possible?

Since the seas are a major source of oxygen to support life, thanks to Plankton, and the Wooded areas provide most of the rest, where would oxygen come from if there were only Ice, which there would be if ice sank on freezing rather that floating?

The effect on global weather would be catastrophic, and the globe would have an average temperature roughly equivalent to Antarctica, where human life is unsustainable without protection and technology.

So your god is not omnipotent? He needs everything working in his favour or there is no life?

Well done madman you just reduced your god to a life form slightly higher than you, but not to the level of humans.

I have no idea how you have managed to arrive at that.

Everything in nature works in his favour because he designed it to work that way so that there could be life.

Simple, see? somehow I doubt if you do, but I am not sure why.

Your god is allegedly omnipotent, he needs absolutely nothing to work in his favour, whether created those conditions or not.

He can create and sustain life under any circumstances he wishes.

The fact that we can't exist without the conditions under which we live actually proves that either your god is not omnipotent or in fact your god does not exist.

Omnipotent means that he can do whatever he wants, it does not mean that he wants to do everything he can. Do you get that??

It's called self restraint.

It's called making excuses.

An omnipotent god has no need whatsoever for the conditions to be perfect for life. It has no need to create such conditions in order that it create life.

Your god is not omnipotent or it doesn't exist, is the only conclusion that can be drawn from your fine tuning argument.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
biomystic
Posts: 606
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12/19/2013 10:04:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 5:25:12 PM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/19/2013 8:58:37 AM, biomystic wrote:
Yes, but is silicon elevated to religious authority? In Celestial Torah Christianity the Sign of Aquarius, which is the Egyptian hieroglyph for "water" and their word for it, "mu", forms the religious and linguistic basis for the name of Moses, "Musa", "drawn out of WATER". Aquarius as the Water Bearer, the one who anoints the world with Living Waters as Jesus tells of himself, well, atheists, this our God, your God, embedding primary Creation truths within Creation's unfolding for us to make our way straight--eventually to God because human beings are theotropic creatures.

Proof? Or is this just a rant of what you believe and comes from personal untestable claims.

Rant? Personal untested claims? Why use your loaded words for my post? It only shows your bias right off the bat. And really, my post contains several aspects and you don't specify which ones you want this "proof" from. For instance, anyone can instantly topple your "personal untestable claims" slander when I've challenged you atheists to show where silicon has been elevated in human society and religious culture to iconic status.
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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12/20/2013 12:06:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 10:04:19 PM, biomystic wrote:
At 12/19/2013 5:25:12 PM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/19/2013 8:58:37 AM, biomystic wrote:
Yes, but is silicon elevated to religious authority? In Celestial Torah Christianity the Sign of Aquarius, which is the Egyptian hieroglyph for "water" and their word for it, "mu", forms the religious and linguistic basis for the name of Moses, "Musa", "drawn out of WATER". Aquarius as the Water Bearer, the one who anoints the world with Living Waters as Jesus tells of himself, well, atheists, this our God, your God, embedding primary Creation truths within Creation's unfolding for us to make our way straight--eventually to God because human beings are theotropic creatures.

Proof? Or is this just a rant of what you believe and comes from personal untestable claims.

Rant? Personal untested claims? Why use your loaded words for my post? It only shows your bias right off the bat. And really, my post contains several aspects and you don't specify which ones you want this "proof" from. For instance, anyone can instantly topple your "personal untestable claims" slander when I've challenged you atheists to show where silicon has been elevated in human society and religious culture to iconic status.

What element is elevated to religious authority? Answer this question first please and I will address that.

When we are done with this we can look at the other points.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/20/2013 4:24:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 5:24:27 PM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/19/2013 8:59:06 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 8:42:14 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/19/2013 1:58:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 12:19:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/18/2013 3:46:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
What is that simple, rarely considered example - ice.

Of the many things that demonstrate the fact that design is involved in creation, ice is the simplest and most obvious.

Why?

Well consider this.

Water is unique in that when it freezes and becomes a solid it becomes less dense, whereas every other substance does the exact opposite.

Why is that an example of design?

Well consider the consequences if that were not the case.

If it were not so this planet would be a completely uninhabitable ball of ice, because any water that froze would sink to the bottom of the ocean, and the ocean would slowly have become a solid block, too solid and too cold fro the ice ever to thaw.

So is it an accident that water, the most vital of substances for life, is so unique?

Of course not, it is significant and demonstrable evidence of design which is evidence of a designer and creator, i. e. God.

This question is for interest as your post is false. Why does a unique substance imply design?

Also you are wrong, as Silicon has a liquid density which is larger than its solid state density. Hence solid silicon can float on liquid silicon.

This means your argument for design is false.

OK I'll concede that last point, at least for now, because I was simply going by the words of two scientists who specialise in studying Ice and it's "unique" properties.

However I suspect my error was more in the sense of not specifying that I was talking about substances which are liquid on their "normal" state at temperatures above freezing point, which would, I believe, have excluded silicon.

As for you first point, the reason it bespeaks design is that without it being that ways, human life would not have been possible, and the chances of water being the only substance, liquid at "normal" temperatures with that property without design being involved, are so astronomical as to be virtually impossible.

I agree it is not absolute proof, but it is very strong evidence, and I did after all call it evidence, not absolute proof.

I understand what you are saying, yet water is essential as we are a carbon based life form that has developed under certain conditions. Now imagine if the life forms were silicon or nitrogen, then water would not be required, but some other substance. This does not require design but rather chemicals that cooperate.

Except that we were not designed as such, that is not what God wanted.

However I do know what you mean because of the life forms that have developed in such places as the Alkaline lakes in Tanzania (Lake Natron I believe), which are caustic to the vast majority of life on earth,l but home to a bacterium that Flamingoes eat.

Also the life forms which develop in the ocean by sulphurous "chimneys" in the deeper sea regions.

Life is found in the most remarkable places, and doubtless similar simple life forms will be found even in space, but that means little. God crated a world in which intelligent life could be given a home, and if he had felt that would be achievable any other way I don't doubt he would have done so.

They say that there is no-one more zealous than a convert, and such I am because I have been an atheist until I finally had to admit what a truly untenable position it is.

In other words, it requires a presupposition.

If you actually read what I wrote you know I am saying the exact opposite of that. My, presupposition, was the exact opposite of what I ended up believing.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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12/20/2013 4:35:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/19/2013 5:01:56 PM, biomystic wrote:
At 12/19/2013 9:04:09 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 8:58:37 AM, biomystic wrote:
Yes, but is silicon elevated to religious authority? In Celestial Torah Christianity the Sign of Aquarius, which is the Egyptian hieroglyph for "water" and their word for it, "mu", forms the religious and linguistic basis for the name of Moses, "Musa", "drawn out of WATER". Aquarius as the Water Bearer, the one who anoints the world with Living Waters as Jesus tells of himself, well, atheists, this our God, your God, embedding primary Creation truths within Creation's unfolding for us to make our way straight--eventually to God because human beings are theotropic creatures.

Well Moses was discovered floating in a basket in the water so that is hardly surprising.

However Astrology is one of the many things that God condemns, as he said when condemning all forms of fortune telling,, "should not one inquire of one's God about his future". Of course inquiring of him does not mean he will inform us if he doesn't feel it is good that we should know.

Wrong. Astrology is one of the many things the priests of Judah condemned and then the Roman Catholic priests following them. But God never condemned astrology. You need to read Genesis One more carefully and remember this verse: "Then God said, 'Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and >let them be for SIGNS and for seasons, and for days and years."

I am a Celestial Torah Christian as the Celestial Torah forms the spiritual basis for the earthly Torah which was compromised by spiritual truth being made to serve tribal politics. Judah lost the spiritual knowledge of the Celestial Torah but it's been recovered now and has always been the root of the Messiah/Christ/Anointed One theology. I caution you and all Pauline Christians not to be paper and ink idolators, i.e. thinking that God only talks through the Judeo-Christian Bible.

Yes the Jews condemned it, and that is because God did also.

Just because the law was fulfilled did not mean that the ideas embedded in it are wrong they are not.

God has not changed. What he was against then, he is against now.

I am not a Tarpaulin Christian, there is no such thing, nor is there any such thing as a Judeo Christian, they are false labels. There are only two distinct groups; those who follow Christ, as the Apostles did, and thereby follow the God he worshipped and followed, or everyone else.

If you don't follow Christ, don't adhere to the teachings he taught from (The Hebrew Scriptures, since that was all he had), then you are not remotely Christian.

As Christ himself said, he taught us only what his father taught him, and that included a hatred of all forms of fortune telling, because directly or indirectly, you are exposing yourself to Satanic influence.

Why do you think Satan used the Magi, astrologers of their day, to alert Herod to the existence of one he would see as a rival, thus getting all the children in Bethlehem from two years down slaughtered? Would God arrange that? No, not at all.

Sorry, but ti seems you still have much to learn about the "God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Peter 1:3).

Incidentally, one reason that there is no such thing as a Pauline Christian is that Paul taught exactly what Christ and all the other Apostles taught, he did not teach one thing different from them. His writing s make that very clear, if you take the trouble to understand what they really say.
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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12/20/2013 6:08:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/20/2013 4:24:39 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 5:24:27 PM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/19/2013 8:59:06 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 8:42:14 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/19/2013 1:58:50 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 12/19/2013 12:19:30 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/18/2013 3:46:41 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
What is that simple, rarely considered example - ice.

Of the many things that demonstrate the fact that design is involved in creation, ice is the simplest and most obvious.

Why?

Well consider this.

Water is unique in that when it freezes and becomes a solid it becomes less dense, whereas every other substance does the exact opposite.

Why is that an example of design?

Well consider the consequences if that were not the case.

If it were not so this planet would be a completely uninhabitable ball of ice, because any water that froze would sink to the bottom of the ocean, and the ocean would slowly have become a solid block, too solid and too cold fro the ice ever to thaw.

So is it an accident that water, the most vital of substances for life, is so unique?

Of course not, it is significant and demonstrable evidence of design which is evidence of a designer and creator, i. e. God.

This question is for interest as your post is false. Why does a unique substance imply design?

Also you are wrong, as Silicon has a liquid density which is larger than its solid state density. Hence solid silicon can float on liquid silicon.

This means your argument for design is false.

OK I'll concede that last point, at least for now, because I was simply going by the words of two scientists who specialise in studying Ice and it's "unique" properties.

However I suspect my error was more in the sense of not specifying that I was talking about substances which are liquid on their "normal" state at temperatures above freezing point, which would, I believe, have excluded silicon.

As for you first point, the reason it bespeaks design is that without it being that ways, human life would not have been possible, and the chances of water being the only substance, liquid at "normal" temperatures with that property without design being involved, are so astronomical as to be virtually impossible.

I agree it is not absolute proof, but it is very strong evidence, and I did after all call it evidence, not absolute proof.

I understand what you are saying, yet water is essential as we are a carbon based life form that has developed under certain conditions. Now imagine if the life forms were silicon or nitrogen, then water would not be required, but some other substance. This does not require design but rather chemicals that cooperate.

Except that we were not designed as such, that is not what God wanted.

However I do know what you mean because of the life forms that have developed in such places as the Alkaline lakes in Tanzania (Lake Natron I believe), which are caustic to the vast majority of life on earth,l but home to a bacterium that Flamingoes eat.

Also the life forms which develop in the ocean by sulphurous "chimneys" in the deeper sea regions.

Life is found in the most remarkable places, and doubtless similar simple life forms will be found even in space, but that means little. God crated a world in which intelligent life could be given a home, and if he had felt that would be achievable any other way I don't doubt he would have done so.

They say that there is no-one more zealous than a convert, and such I am because I have been an atheist until I finally had to admit what a truly untenable position it is.

In other words, it requires a presupposition.

If you actually read what I wrote you know I am saying the exact opposite of that. My, presupposition, was the exact opposite of what I ended up believing.

This is a presupposition, as it has no basis.
Except that we were not designed as such, that is not what God wanted.
biomystic
Posts: 606
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12/20/2013 6:20:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/20/2013 12:06:27 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/19/2013 10:04:19 PM, biomystic wrote:
At 12/19/2013 5:25:12 PM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 12/19/2013 8:58:37 AM, biomystic wrote:
Yes, but is silicon elevated to religious authority? In Celestial Torah Christianity the Sign of Aquarius, which is the Egyptian hieroglyph for "water" and their word for it, "mu", forms the religious and linguistic basis for the name of Moses, "Musa", "drawn out of WATER". Aquarius as the Water Bearer, the one who anoints the world with Living Waters as Jesus tells of himself, well, atheists, this our God, your God, embedding primary Creation truths within Creation's unfolding for us to make our way straight--eventually to God because human beings are theotropic creatures.

Proof? Or is this just a rant of what you believe and comes from personal untestable claims.

Rant? Personal untested claims? Why use your loaded words for my post? It only shows your bias right off the bat. And really, my post contains several aspects and you don't specify which ones you want this "proof" from. For instance, anyone can instantly topple your "personal untestable claims" slander when I've challenged you atheists to show where silicon has been elevated in human society and religious culture to iconic status.

What element is elevated to religious authority? Answer this question first please and I will address that.

When we are done with this we can look at the other points.

Are you that dense? Water, of course. That's what's been discussed previously on this thread.
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12/20/2013 6:30:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/20/2013 4:24:39 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
They say that there is no-one more zealous than a convert, and such I am because I have been an atheist until I finally had to admit what a truly untenable position it is.

This coming from the 6yr old who read the NT every night.

You need to start remembering your previous lies, dummy.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin