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The universe was intelligent designed

imsmarterthanyou98
Posts: 19
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12/29/2013 12:20:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hello all i am attending a debate soon and would like to know any strong points i could bring up against the motion that the universe was intelligently designed any points backed by evidence or suggestions would really help out thanks!
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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12/29/2013 2:12:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/29/2013 12:20:44 PM, imsmarterthanyou98 wrote:
Hello all i am attending a debate soon and would like to know any strong points i could bring up against the motion that the universe was intelligently designed any points backed by evidence or suggestions would really help out thanks!

The universe was the intelligent designer.
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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12/29/2013 2:23:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://www.amazon.com...

I'd recommend looking at that book. It completely destroys all claims of intelligent design in the universe.
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/29/2013 2:53:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/29/2013 2:23:20 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
http://www.amazon.com...

I'd recommend looking at that book. It completely destroys all claims of intelligent design in the universe.

No. He's terrible on fine tuning. TERRIBLE. Luke Barnes and Robin Collins destroy him.

http://arxiv.org...
http://home.messiah.edu...
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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12/29/2013 4:42:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/29/2013 2:53:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:23:20 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
http://www.amazon.com...

I'd recommend looking at that book. It completely destroys all claims of intelligent design in the universe.

No. He's terrible on fine tuning. TERRIBLE. Luke Barnes and Robin Collins destroy him.

http://arxiv.org...
http://home.messiah.edu...

He has replied to them on his website.
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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12/29/2013 8:25:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/29/2013 2:53:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:23:20 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
http://www.amazon.com...

I'd recommend looking at that book. It completely destroys all claims of intelligent design in the universe.

No. He's terrible on fine tuning. TERRIBLE. Luke Barnes and Robin Collins destroy him.

http://arxiv.org...
http://home.messiah.edu...

I always found the fine-tuning argument quite unconvincing. If any of the constants were changed, most if not all of what we see wouldn't exist. Stars wouldn't even exist. Why does life matter? If any of the constants were changed, even a bit, asteroids couldn't exist. Nobody thinks the universe is fine-tuned for asteroids! Why would someone come to the conclusion that because if certain things were different, we couldn't exist, that we are special? We could just be a necessary side-effect of that which is special. Maybe nothing is special.
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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12/29/2013 8:50:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
You want to create a habitat for some creatures you wish to nurture and take care of.

Think of an environment where innumerable numbers can live, thrive and survive, with obvious difficulties and necessarily struggles included.

That habitat will look nothing like earth, or the universe.

The fine tuning argument is really a red herring as a result; one can envisage innumerable universes, structures, arrangements or other configurations of the place in which we live that would be far better for life and would meet any and all requirements a divine creature may have. If you or I can think of something better, it disproves an "intelligent" designer in it's typical usage.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/29/2013 8:52:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/29/2013 4:42:10 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:53:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:23:20 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
http://www.amazon.com...

I'd recommend looking at that book. It completely destroys all claims of intelligent design in the universe.

No. He's terrible on fine tuning. TERRIBLE. Luke Barnes and Robin Collins destroy him.

http://arxiv.org...
http://home.messiah.edu...

He has replied to them on his website.

His replies aren't good.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
biomystic
Posts: 606
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12/29/2013 8:55:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Our Universe was intelligently designed. The Designers were Us, We did it, We fashioned Creation as the material vehicle in which Life evolves into God, into Us, the Elohim as We are called in the ancient Jewish tradition.

You see Creation is a done deal, it sits already completed from Big Bang beginning to Black Hole annihilation ending, like a video being played out for one purpose: the evolving of Life, then Consciousness, then Intelligence, into God. This is how God came about "unbegotten" by any higher "parents" than lowly Life.

You can use the Logic of History to see how We did it: That logic tells us that humanity progresses rather steadily through the ages in acquisition of knowledge and powers over environmental conditions . For instance even when Europe was experiencing their Dark Ages, right below Europe in the North African states Muslims were going full bore in advancing human knowledge of mathematics. The Logic of History says that in the last 200 years human beings have gone from heating their dwellings with wood and coal fires to being able to bring the nuclear fire power of the sun down upon the earth to heat and power homes and human activity. The Logic of History says human beings have gone from horse and buggy transportation to putting human beings on the moon in these last 200 years. What will human beings be doing in the year 3014, 5014, 7014? What kind of knowledge of the Universe will we possess then and what kind of control over our situation as intelligent beings in Creation set up like a billiard table with billiard balls flying around threatening each evolving Life scenario.

In 1958 the Star Trek prototype movie came out, Forbidden Planet in which an advanced civilization created a "Krell Machine" that was powered by the nuclear interior of the planet and was capable of turning thought into matter which is the Creation mode found in Gnostic theology as well as Vedic and probably several other religious traditions. When human beings or whatever we are in our future selves can turn thought into matter we will have arrived at Godhood status. And this is coming, inevitably by the Logic of History.

The Gospel of Humanity tells the story in traditional and Gnostic Christian symbolism:
GoH at: http://biomystic.org...
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/29/2013 9:01:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/29/2013 8:25:02 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:53:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:23:20 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
http://www.amazon.com...

I'd recommend looking at that book. It completely destroys all claims of intelligent design in the universe.

No. He's terrible on fine tuning. TERRIBLE. Luke Barnes and Robin Collins destroy him.

http://arxiv.org...
http://home.messiah.edu...

I always found the fine-tuning argument quite unconvincing. If any of the constants were changed, most if not all of what we see wouldn't exist. Stars wouldn't even exist. Why does life matter? If any of the constants were changed, even a bit, asteroids couldn't exist. Nobody thinks the universe is fine-tuned for asteroids! Why would someone come to the conclusion that because if certain things were different, we couldn't exist, that we are special? We could just be a necessary side-effect of that which is special. Maybe nothing is special.

Because Collins makes the point that the universe isn't just fine tuned for observers (it isn't; he convincingly argues that observers could exist in non-fine tuned universes, see: Boltzmann brains), but for embodied conscious agents capable of science and moral action and the like.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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12/29/2013 9:27:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/29/2013 9:01:44 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 8:25:02 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:53:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:23:20 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
http://www.amazon.com...

I'd recommend looking at that book. It completely destroys all claims of intelligent design in the universe.

No. He's terrible on fine tuning. TERRIBLE. Luke Barnes and Robin Collins destroy him.

http://arxiv.org...
http://home.messiah.edu...

I always found the fine-tuning argument quite unconvincing. If any of the constants were changed, most if not all of what we see wouldn't exist. Stars wouldn't even exist. Why does life matter? If any of the constants were changed, even a bit, asteroids couldn't exist. Nobody thinks the universe is fine-tuned for asteroids! Why would someone come to the conclusion that because if certain things were different, we couldn't exist, that we are special? We could just be a necessary side-effect of that which is special. Maybe nothing is special.

Because Collins makes the point that the universe isn't just fine tuned for observers (it isn't; he convincingly argues that observers could exist in non-fine tuned universes, see: Boltzmann brains), but for embodied conscious agents capable of science and moral action and the like.

So? Again, what makes that so special over any of the other things that wouldn't exist if the constants weren't different? Black holes couldn't exist. Why is embodied consciousness more "special" than black holes?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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12/29/2013 9:30:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/29/2013 9:27:41 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 9:01:44 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 8:25:02 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:53:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:23:20 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
http://www.amazon.com...

I'd recommend looking at that book. It completely destroys all claims of intelligent design in the universe.

No. He's terrible on fine tuning. TERRIBLE. Luke Barnes and Robin Collins destroy him.

http://arxiv.org...
http://home.messiah.edu...

I always found the fine-tuning argument quite unconvincing. If any of the constants were changed, most if not all of what we see wouldn't exist. Stars wouldn't even exist. Why does life matter? If any of the constants were changed, even a bit, asteroids couldn't exist. Nobody thinks the universe is fine-tuned for asteroids! Why would someone come to the conclusion that because if certain things were different, we couldn't exist, that we are special? We could just be a necessary side-effect of that which is special. Maybe nothing is special.

Because Collins makes the point that the universe isn't just fine tuned for observers (it isn't; he convincingly argues that observers could exist in non-fine tuned universes, see: Boltzmann brains), but for embodied conscious agents capable of science and moral action and the like.

So? Again, what makes that so special over any of the other things that wouldn't exist if the constants weren't different? Black holes couldn't exist. Why is embodied consciousness more "special" than black holes?

Because black holes don't have the same moral and aesthetic value as embodied conscious agents do.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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12/29/2013 9:38:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/29/2013 9:30:59 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 9:27:41 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 9:01:44 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 8:25:02 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:53:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:23:20 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
http://www.amazon.com...

I'd recommend looking at that book. It completely destroys all claims of intelligent design in the universe.

No. He's terrible on fine tuning. TERRIBLE. Luke Barnes and Robin Collins destroy him.

http://arxiv.org...
http://home.messiah.edu...

I always found the fine-tuning argument quite unconvincing. If any of the constants were changed, most if not all of what we see wouldn't exist. Stars wouldn't even exist. Why does life matter? If any of the constants were changed, even a bit, asteroids couldn't exist. Nobody thinks the universe is fine-tuned for asteroids! Why would someone come to the conclusion that because if certain things were different, we couldn't exist, that we are special? We could just be a necessary side-effect of that which is special. Maybe nothing is special.

Because Collins makes the point that the universe isn't just fine tuned for observers (it isn't; he convincingly argues that observers could exist in non-fine tuned universes, see: Boltzmann brains), but for embodied conscious agents capable of science and moral action and the like.

So? Again, what makes that so special over any of the other things that wouldn't exist if the constants weren't different? Black holes couldn't exist. Why is embodied consciousness more "special" than black holes?

Because black holes don't have the same moral and aesthetic value as embodied conscious agents do.

So? Beings with embodied consciousness don't have the properties of black holes lol It is a two way street.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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12/29/2013 9:39:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/29/2013 9:30:59 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 9:27:41 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 9:01:44 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 8:25:02 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:53:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:23:20 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
http://www.amazon.com...

I'd recommend looking at that book. It completely destroys all claims of intelligent design in the universe.

No. He's terrible on fine tuning. TERRIBLE. Luke Barnes and Robin Collins destroy him.

http://arxiv.org...
http://home.messiah.edu...

I always found the fine-tuning argument quite unconvincing. If any of the constants were changed, most if not all of what we see wouldn't exist. Stars wouldn't even exist. Why does life matter? If any of the constants were changed, even a bit, asteroids couldn't exist. Nobody thinks the universe is fine-tuned for asteroids! Why would someone come to the conclusion that because if certain things were different, we couldn't exist, that we are special? We could just be a necessary side-effect of that which is special. Maybe nothing is special.

Because Collins makes the point that the universe isn't just fine tuned for observers (it isn't; he convincingly argues that observers could exist in non-fine tuned universes, see: Boltzmann brains), but for embodied conscious agents capable of science and moral action and the like.

So? Again, what makes that so special over any of the other things that wouldn't exist if the constants weren't different? Black holes couldn't exist. Why is embodied consciousness more "special" than black holes?

Because black holes don't have the same moral and aesthetic value as embodied conscious agents do.

Also, because you seem to concern yourself with the definition of atheism, do you think you could reply to my PM?
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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12/29/2013 11:03:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/29/2013 9:27:41 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 9:01:44 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 8:25:02 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:53:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:23:20 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
http://www.amazon.com...

I'd recommend looking at that book. It completely destroys all claims of intelligent design in the universe.

No. He's terrible on fine tuning. TERRIBLE. Luke Barnes and Robin Collins destroy him.

http://arxiv.org...
http://home.messiah.edu...

I always found the fine-tuning argument quite unconvincing. If any of the constants were changed, most if not all of what we see wouldn't exist. Stars wouldn't even exist. Why does life matter? If any of the constants were changed, even a bit, asteroids couldn't exist. Nobody thinks the universe is fine-tuned for asteroids! Why would someone come to the conclusion that because if certain things were different, we couldn't exist, that we are special? We could just be a necessary side-effect of that which is special. Maybe nothing is special.

Because Collins makes the point that the universe isn't just fine tuned for observers (it isn't; he convincingly argues that observers could exist in non-fine tuned universes, see: Boltzmann brains), but for embodied conscious agents capable of science and moral action and the like.

So? Again, what makes that so special over any of the other things that wouldn't exist if the constants weren't different? Black holes couldn't exist. Why is embodied consciousness more "special" than black holes?

I've read that the universe is actually more fine tuned for black holes than humans.
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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12/29/2013 11:24:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/29/2013 11:03:11 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 9:27:41 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 9:01:44 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 8:25:02 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:53:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:23:20 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
http://www.amazon.com...

I'd recommend looking at that book. It completely destroys all claims of intelligent design in the universe.

No. He's terrible on fine tuning. TERRIBLE. Luke Barnes and Robin Collins destroy him.

http://arxiv.org...
http://home.messiah.edu...

I always found the fine-tuning argument quite unconvincing. If any of the constants were changed, most if not all of what we see wouldn't exist. Stars wouldn't even exist. Why does life matter? If any of the constants were changed, even a bit, asteroids couldn't exist. Nobody thinks the universe is fine-tuned for asteroids! Why would someone come to the conclusion that because if certain things were different, we couldn't exist, that we are special? We could just be a necessary side-effect of that which is special. Maybe nothing is special.

Because Collins makes the point that the universe isn't just fine tuned for observers (it isn't; he convincingly argues that observers could exist in non-fine tuned universes, see: Boltzmann brains), but for embodied conscious agents capable of science and moral action and the like.

So? Again, what makes that so special over any of the other things that wouldn't exist if the constants weren't different? Black holes couldn't exist. Why is embodied consciousness more "special" than black holes?

I've read that the universe is actually more fine tuned for black holes than humans.

Yes, this is Lee Smolin's idea. He calculated that out of all the possible universes you could get by mixing around the constants, this one is the best possible one for maximizing black hole production. This suggests that the universe is a perfect black hole generator. I mean, after all, most of the matter in the universe goes into making black holes; not life! The thing is, in a universe that is a perfect black hole generator, the possibility for life is a necessary bi-product. You need a bunch of stars so some can collapse and become black holes. Well, the more stars there are, the more solar systems, the more solar systems, the more potentially habitable planets. We are just a bi-product.

Similar to how a stain in the glass is just a necessary bi-product of refilling the same glass with Coke every time you want a drink, life is just a necessary bi-product of a lot of stars, time, the laws of nature, and chance. We wouldn't say that glasses and Coke exists just so the stain in the glass could be there, it is just a necessary bi-product. Similarly, there is no reason to think that the universe was made with us in mind, we are just a necessary bi-product. .

It may or may not be true, but it is interesting to think about for sure.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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12/29/2013 11:31:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/29/2013 9:38:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 9:30:59 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 9:27:41 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 9:01:44 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 8:25:02 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:53:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:23:20 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
http://www.amazon.com...

I'd recommend looking at that book. It completely destroys all claims of intelligent design in the universe.

No. He's terrible on fine tuning. TERRIBLE. Luke Barnes and Robin Collins destroy him.

http://arxiv.org...
http://home.messiah.edu...

I always found the fine-tuning argument quite unconvincing. If any of the constants were changed, most if not all of what we see wouldn't exist. Stars wouldn't even exist. Why does life matter? If any of the constants were changed, even a bit, asteroids couldn't exist. Nobody thinks the universe is fine-tuned for asteroids! Why would someone come to the conclusion that because if certain things were different, we couldn't exist, that we are special? We could just be a necessary side-effect of that which is special. Maybe nothing is special.

Because Collins makes the point that the universe isn't just fine tuned for observers (it isn't; he convincingly argues that observers could exist in non-fine tuned universes, see: Boltzmann brains), but for embodied conscious agents capable of science and moral action and the like.

So? Again, what makes that so special over any of the other things that wouldn't exist if the constants weren't different? Black holes couldn't exist. Why is embodied consciousness more "special" than black holes?

Because black holes don't have the same moral and aesthetic value as embodied conscious agents do.

So? Beings with embodied consciousness don't have the properties of black holes lol It is a two way street.

But black holes are not like God. If God existed, he would want his power to be reflected somewhere in the universe, because he is omnipotent. The same way a film director puts his name at the top of the credits in a film. Do you see now why fine-tuning is evidence of a designer?
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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12/29/2013 11:35:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/29/2013 11:31:47 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 12/29/2013 9:38:48 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 9:30:59 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 9:27:41 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 9:01:44 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 8:25:02 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:53:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 12/29/2013 2:23:20 PM, Magic8000 wrote:
http://www.amazon.com...

I'd recommend looking at that book. It completely destroys all claims of intelligent design in the universe.

No. He's terrible on fine tuning. TERRIBLE. Luke Barnes and Robin Collins destroy him.

http://arxiv.org...
http://home.messiah.edu...

I always found the fine-tuning argument quite unconvincing. If any of the constants were changed, most if not all of what we see wouldn't exist. Stars wouldn't even exist. Why does life matter? If any of the constants were changed, even a bit, asteroids couldn't exist. Nobody thinks the universe is fine-tuned for asteroids! Why would someone come to the conclusion that because if certain things were different, we couldn't exist, that we are special? We could just be a necessary side-effect of that which is special. Maybe nothing is special.

Because Collins makes the point that the universe isn't just fine tuned for observers (it isn't; he convincingly argues that observers could exist in non-fine tuned universes, see: Boltzmann brains), but for embodied conscious agents capable of science and moral action and the like.

So? Again, what makes that so special over any of the other things that wouldn't exist if the constants weren't different? Black holes couldn't exist. Why is embodied consciousness more "special" than black holes?

Because black holes don't have the same moral and aesthetic value as embodied conscious agents do.

So? Beings with embodied consciousness don't have the properties of black holes lol It is a two way street.

But black holes are not like God. If God existed, he would want his power to be reflected somewhere in the universe, because he is omnipotent.

Who says God exists? If the universe is a perfect black hole generator, that helps Atheism more than Theism. Also, how do you know what God wants? How do you that if a being created the universe, that being is omnipotent?

The same way a film director puts his name at the top of the credits in a film. Do you see now why fine-tuning is evidence of a designer?

This begs the question. You are assuming a designer, to demonstrate a designer.
biomystic
Posts: 606
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12/30/2013 7:08:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
34 years ago God gave me the correct cosmological information about the Universe. God even got the reason for the appearing acceleration of the expansion which is due to the event horizon of the whole ball of wax swallowing itself ala Klein Bottle closed system. 34 years ago, fellas and science is still wandering around trying to figure it out why everything fits together for Us.
DudeStop
Posts: 1,278
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12/31/2013 7:48:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/29/2013 12:20:44 PM, imsmarterthanyou98 wrote:
Hello all i am attending a debate soon and would like to know any strong points i could bring up against the motion that the universe was intelligently designed any points backed by evidence or suggestions would really help out thanks!

Basics:
Well first off you could show how the universe is set to explode in a billion years. Then you could perhaps offer the multiverse theory.

If he mentions the earth is intelligently designed:

You may want to mention how humans can't be dropped more than 20 feet, survive in very harsh environments, and cannot drink sea water(KInd of) Then you need to point out how most of the earth has these conditions... I think it's somewhere in the 80-90% of the world is like this... But Google it just to be sure.

Then you can use his logic that earth is designed for life. Ask this:
"If god's goal was life, why do we have death then?" He will have to either say he doesn't know, or that the goal is not life. in that case his entire argument just shriveled up and died.

When he talks about how humans are so intelligently designed, they require a creator:

Point out the earth wasn't intelligently designed with it, and look to the above. Remember to find a way to ask him where god came from before this argument. He will most likely say god is eternal, or always existed. Then you get to have some fun.

1. Going by your logic, an intelligent being needs a creator,
2. God is an intelligent being,
3. God doesn't have a creator,
4. Then either one has to be false, or god does not exist.

He will have to concede that either humans do not need a creator, or that god is not real. That will probably knock out about half his argument.

I hope the above was helpful! Message me if it was, and I can write up more.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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12/31/2013 8:08:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 12/29/2013 12:20:44 PM, imsmarterthanyou98 wrote:
Hello all i am attending a debate soon and would like to know any strong points i could bring up against the motion that the universe was intelligently designed any points backed by evidence or suggestions would really help out thanks!

Debate.org among other places I am sure has many debates on this subject.

I am sure you will find objections raised to arguments in favour of intelligent design as well as arguments in favour that we are no designed.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
biomystic
Posts: 606
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12/31/2013 8:12:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
All your arguments are answered in the Gospel of Humanity. The manner in which the Universe was created and the identity of the Creator. You need to understand your atheist position is not rationally based. The Logic of History alone defeats it with no need of positing any God or spiritual reality.