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give me solid proof evolution is real (dna)

Illegalcombatant
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1/5/2014 3:48:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/5/2014 3:10:43 AM, Cooldudebro wrote:
I will believe it if you do provide enough proof. I will always believe in god though.

There is no "proof", evolution is a scientific theory. Based on it you make predictions based on it. You then compare your predictions on your observations.

Notice the difference between making your theory vulnerable to disproof vs making your theory invulnerable to disproof, usually by constantly by being ad hoc.

Tell me how any intelligent design theory is vulnerable to disproof then get back to me.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
dtaylor971
Posts: 1,907
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1/5/2014 4:37:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Give me solid proof Creationism is real.
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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1/5/2014 6:34:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/5/2014 3:10:43 AM, Cooldudebro wrote:
I will believe it if you do provide enough proof. I will always believe in god though.

Try reading a book NOT written by goat shaggers.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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1/5/2014 7:52:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/5/2014 3:48:00 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 1/5/2014 3:10:43 AM, Cooldudebro wrote:
I will believe it if you do provide enough proof. I will always believe in god though.

There is no "proof", evolution is a scientific theory. Based on it you make predictions based on it. You then compare your predictions on your observations.


You say this, then you demand theists provide "proof" that God exists before you believe in him.
SeventhProfessor
Posts: 5,092
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1/5/2014 1:34:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/5/2014 1:31:42 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 1/5/2014 4:37:49 AM, dtaylor971 wrote:
Give me solid proof Creationism is real.

There are still monkeys.

I really hope that was a joke.
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superflymegastallion
Posts: 370
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1/5/2014 1:47:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/5/2014 7:52:18 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 1/5/2014 3:48:00 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 1/5/2014 3:10:43 AM, Cooldudebro wrote:
I will believe it if you do provide enough proof. I will always believe in god though.

There is no "proof", evolution is a scientific theory. Based on it you make predictions based on it. You then compare your predictions on your observations.


You say this, then you demand theists provide "proof" that God exists before you believe in him.
Do you really understand what a theory is?

the"o"ry
[thee-uh-ree, theer-ee] Show IPA

noun, plural the"o"ries.
1.
a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity. Synonyms: principle, law, doctrine.

2.
a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.
None of this means that it isn't fact, or is. It is the best explanation, to date, and can still be scrutinized, and discounted. Until it is discounted, then it is the way it is!! Period! No discussion! Come up with a better theory, and it will be considered. To ask for "proof" in the sense you want it is BS. The same you determine that an atheist wanting "proof" you believe is BS. But to state that your position is "correct" without any independent verification is why so many reject your claims. Do you understand?
A scientist CAN verify his claims! This is not a hard freaking concept.
superflymegastallion
Posts: 370
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1/5/2014 1:52:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/5/2014 1:49:19 PM, Cooldudebro wrote:
Still don't have enough proof.
Of course not, there will never be enough for you. What is good enough proof for you? What would it take? Do you have to see an alligator morph into a duck within an hour? That isn't what evolution is, and to think such is ignorance on your part. You wouldn't see it in 100 thousand years.
RhysJaxson
Posts: 79
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1/5/2014 1:59:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/5/2014 1:54:09 PM, Cooldudebro wrote:
I think it is a sound theory, I just want DNA proof. It should be easy if evolution is valid.

If you want DNA proof, you're going to have to go back to school and do a lot of studying. Then you can trace the genetic ancestry for yourself.

Chromosome 2 is quite convincing though, if you don't want to go through all that effort. I doubt you'll find many evolutionary geneticists on this forum.
We are better than religion. We are better than gods.
superflymegastallion
Posts: 370
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1/5/2014 2:03:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/5/2014 1:54:09 PM, Cooldudebro wrote:
I think it is a sound theory, I just want DNA proof. It should be easy if evolution is valid.
I can't help you. I don't have it in my back pocket. Maybe I could get a bunch of people I know to write a book and tell you that it's true.....But without the evidence to back it up. Then I know you would believe it!
Finalfan
Posts: 12
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1/5/2014 2:20:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Do you want proof? Really? Or do you want God himself to tell you evolution is not just a holy prank! The evidence for evolution pushes it past the line of theory and becomes an educative science not unlike chemistry and biology! Do you take their word for it when science tells you that a certain medicine can cures what ails you! Do you trust in the concept of gravity? These scientific discoveries are not debatable. Even if everything we think is a lie.. you still cannot argue it!

Proof for evolution is in geographic distribution and mapping the DNA of all living creatures only to find a perfectly represented "family tree"! Richard Dawkins explains it like you are a crime scene investigator. You may not actually witness the event but it leaves EVIDENCE that illustrates our evolutionary process without anything causing the "evolutionary house of cards" to topple. Proving evolution would be extremely easy if it were not true.. but here we are still arguing over something that most people are completely ignorant of because you were not allowed a proper education!
Cooldudebro
Posts: 383
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1/5/2014 2:31:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/5/2014 2:20:53 PM, Finalfan wrote:
Do you want proof? Really? Or do you want God himself to tell you evolution is not just a holy prank! The evidence for evolution pushes it past the line of theory and becomes an educative science not unlike chemistry and biology! Do you take their word for it when science tells you that a certain medicine can cures what ails you! Do you trust in the concept of gravity? These scientific discoveries are not debatable. Even if everything we think is a lie.. you still cannot argue it!

Proof for evolution is in geographic distribution and mapping the DNA of all living creatures only to find a perfectly represented "family tree"! Richard Dawkins explains it like you are a crime scene investigator. You may not actually witness the event but it leaves EVIDENCE that illustrates our evolutionary process without anything causing the "evolutionary house of cards" to topple. Proving evolution would be extremely easy if it were not true.. but here we are still arguing over something that most people are completely ignorant of because you were not allowed a proper education!

Okay show it to me
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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1/5/2014 2:39:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/5/2014 1:34:39 PM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
At 1/5/2014 1:31:42 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 1/5/2014 4:37:49 AM, dtaylor971 wrote:
Give me solid proof Creationism is real.

There are still monkeys.

I really hope that was a joke.

No it isn't.

Why haven't monkeys evolved if evolution is a valid theory of our origin?
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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1/5/2014 2:41:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/5/2014 6:34:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/5/2014 3:10:43 AM, Cooldudebro wrote:
I will believe it if you do provide enough proof. I will always believe in god though.

Try reading a book NOT written by goat shaggers.

This is just a genetic fallacy. I mean the defribulator was discovered by the Nazis, but you still think people should believe they work and use them to make people get better,right?
QandA
Posts: 21
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1/5/2014 2:44:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Here's your evidence. the chimpanzee is an extreme example of evolution, with DNA sequence that is about 99% identical to that of man http://www.seattlepi.com.... The chimp doesn"t just have the same set of genes as man, indeed about one third of chimp genes encode proteins that are exactly the same as their human counterparts http://en.wikipedia.org.... This sort of result is exactly what evolution predicts, and creationist/anti-evolutionists have to struggle very hard to explain it http://www.christiananswers.net... http://www.apologeticspress.org....
QandA
Cygnus
Posts: 153
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1/5/2014 2:45:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think it is a sound theory, I just want DNA proof. It should be easy if evolution is valid.

If you can say that it is a sound theory but doubt the overwhelming evidence in favor of it, then it sounds to me that you're not really interested in learning about it.

However, if you still want evidence then start reading.

http://scholar.google.com...=
RhysJaxson
Posts: 79
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1/5/2014 3:00:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/5/2014 2:39:22 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 1/5/2014 1:34:39 PM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
At 1/5/2014 1:31:42 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 1/5/2014 4:37:49 AM, dtaylor971 wrote:
Give me solid proof Creationism is real.

There are still monkeys.

I really hope that was a joke.

No it isn't.

Why haven't monkeys evolved if evolution is a valid theory of our origin?

Wow, you really are serious?

Ok, listen up. Monkeys have evolved for their environment. You don't think monkeys have always been around do you?

And please don't tell me you think we evolved from monkeys. We didn't evolve from any living species.
We are better than religion. We are better than gods.
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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1/5/2014 3:25:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/5/2014 3:10:43 AM, Cooldudebro wrote:
I will believe it if you do provide enough proof. I will always believe in god though.

despite what a lot people are saying here, let me tell you something very important:

Evolution is NOT a theory. Much like gravity is NOT a theory.

Yes there are things such as the theory OF evolution and the theory OF gravity, but gravity and evolution in and of themselves are NOT theories.

Gravity is a fundamental force of nature, and it is readily observed and measured.

Evolution, similarly, is a process which we can directly observe every time an organism is born and every time an organism dies. It is the process whereby changes in inherited characteristics take place over generations. You are evidence that this process occurs. You have different characteristics than your parents. This means your genes are not identical to your parents'. This in turn means that changes in characteristics have taken place over time and that evolution is occurring.

I do not 'believe' in evolution any more than I 'believe' that chewing causes food to break down.

I do not 'believe' that homo sapiens evolved from other humanoid species. I simply have not heard of a better natural explanation for the evolution of our species. It is impossible to actually and definitively 'prove' that human beings and horses had a common ancestors since we cannot go back in time to do so.

Ray Comfort and his ilk try to use this shortcoming as an excuse to say that it takes more faith to 'believe' in 'evolution' than it does to believe in God. This does not matter because understanding evolution has lead us to make great advancements in the field of medicine and therein lies the true value of studying the theory of evolution rather than creationism.
dtaylor971
Posts: 1,907
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1/5/2014 4:33:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/5/2014 1:54:09 PM, Cooldudebro wrote:
I think it is a sound theory, I just want DNA proof. It should be easy if evolution is valid.

Both Creationism and Evolution are sound theories. However, one theory (it seems) can never have enough solid evidence to prove it. So it really relies on which one is better structured and has better evidence. This one (currently) belongs to Evolution, even though Creationism could be the right one.
"I don't know why gays want to marry, I have spent the last 25 years wishing I wasn't allowed to." -Sadolite
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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1/5/2014 5:39:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/5/2014 7:52:18 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 1/5/2014 3:48:00 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 1/5/2014 3:10:43 AM, Cooldudebro wrote:
I will believe it if you do provide enough proof. I will always believe in god though.

There is no "proof", evolution is a scientific theory. Based on it you make predictions based on it. You then compare your predictions on your observations.


You say this, then you demand theists provide "proof" that God exists before you believe in him.

Notice the difference between making your theory vulnerable to disproof vs making your theory invulnerable to disproof, usually by constantly by being ad hoc.

Tell me how any intelligent design theory is vulnerable to disproof then get back to me.

As far as this thread goes, that is what I asked for.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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1/5/2014 6:10:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/5/2014 3:10:43 AM, Cooldudebro wrote:
I will believe it if you do provide enough proof. I will always believe in god though.

I'm going to bite, and give you the benefit of the double.

I'm going to assume you don't mean "Evolution", but "Common Descent". The reason I say this, is we can see all the mechanisms of evolution occur; it has been experimentally verified and observed. By this, "Evolution" in terms of it's science is "Fact".

So Common Descent.

So lets see what we see in nature. We see a series of species; that aren't equally seperated from each other; sharks share more traits with completely different sharks than with humans, fish share more traits in common with amphibians than humans with amphibians. This doesn't show anything in itself, but a clever person (actually a creationist) decided to categorise what life is, and came to a conclusion: There was no discrete "types" of animal, but a nested heirarchy. Groups of species that share particular traits; and within those groups, sub-groups of species that share the parent groups properites, but also a series of sub-properties too.

For example, Every animal that has a placenta is also a tetropod, has a spine, has a jaw, a skull, has an anus that forms before the mouth, has a digestive system, has nucleic cells, and innumerable other traits that define the set of groups. Dogs are in the same group as bears and wolverines as they share a set of key traits not present in other species. Cats are in the same group lions and tigers because they share a set of key traits. Both of these groups are also part of the same "super group", as both sets share a specific set of traits that are not present in other species. This pattern is unviolated with no examples of species with one set of diagnostic traits magically acquiring traits of another completely different group.

Now, as you go back in time using fossil species that are no longer alive; what you see is that the species that exist at any point in time no longer match the groups that we see today, but closer match the "parent" groups of the species we see today. Go back further still and this pattern keeps repeating. With the 250,000 fossil species and 175 transitional species that match almost exactly the "parent group" (rather than being the parent group with a couple of changes), such as the archaeoptoryx that is a species with key properties of dinosaurs and a few primitive bird like traits that have been discovered the overwhelmingly and vast majority show a clear progression of traits towards modern species and modern traits over time (asside from exitinct dead ends) with none whatsoever being found "out of sequence": IE a modern animal far in the past out of step.

This record of life shows a set of morphological traits that change, split, and diversify over time. The fossil record is not as complete as we would like, but undisputedly and unarguably demonstrates such a progression.

When analysing modern life genetically, we see that specific genetic markers (that do not affect form or function so cannot be said to relate to how the creature looks) follow through the genes and allow us to provide MANY different ways of testing how closely related species are: In all of these cases, there is a definitive genetic relatedness between all species, that matches almost completely the progression over time demonstrated in the fossile record.

Embryological evidence, as well validates this, with significant similarities with the way common organisms develop from embryos. Humans do not have gills for example, but a feature develops in both human and fish embryos that in one turns into parts of our jaw and ear, and fish turns into gills. This pattern is repeated throughout embryology.

Moreover, during the process of research there are innumerable examples of particular adaptations between different species, or particular branches of life can be explained by the processes of mutation (The human jaw AND brain size can be attributed to a particular gene being switched off, with the expression decreasing over time allowing the jaw to soften and brain to get larger). This explains, for example, why we have such a problem with wisdom teeth (although there is an additional beneficial mutation that turns off the last set of wisdom teeth in some racial groups).

So. Lets review:

Life shows a set of species with traits that change, split, and diversify over time.

Such a pattern is repeated in the genetic evidence; with detailed evidence and fixed markers in our genes that you can trace through species and demonstrate as demonstrably as a paternity test that different species are related.

The pattern is also reinforced by embryology that matches exactly what is expected if different species are all built up as a series of changes and adaptations.

A significant number of traits and adaptions between species can be boiled down to specific changes in specific genes that have changed between related species.

A significant majority of these are either predictions, or "tests" of evolution that have to exist if evolution and common descent were true; but have no reason to occur if evolution is not true.

Further to this; innumerable features in life such as attavism (humans can be born with true tails), vestigiality (similar structures in two species with one not having the same function as the other or none at all), weird properties of life such as the Giraffe Laryngeal nerve, a species of Duck with a penis twice the length of it's body, and many others are all fully explained (and further support) common descent.

So Common Descent and Evolution are well evidenced, make predictions that have been tested and prove true and have thousands of scientists right now experimenting and demonstrating how particular processes can build observed differences.

Because of all of this; the overwhelming quantity of evidence from multiple different threads and sciences all diverge on a single conclusion of common descent, with no other theory being able to provide an explanation of how ANY of the above can come about and no other theory providing any testable predictions or matching the evidence that has not already been falsified.
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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1/5/2014 6:21:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/5/2014 2:41:43 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 1/5/2014 6:34:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/5/2014 3:10:43 AM, Cooldudebro wrote:
I will believe it if you do provide enough proof. I will always believe in god though.

Try reading a book NOT written by goat shaggers.

This is just a genetic fallacy. I mean the defribulator was discovered by the Nazis, but you still think people should believe they work and use them to make people get better,right?

And gods were invented by cavemen and you still believe in one that was invented 190,000yrs after theirs right?
bubbatheclown
Posts: 1,258
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1/5/2014 6:22:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Here's a little issue that evolution must overcome:
Changes in environment may need instant adaptation from animals near the event, otherwise they all die out. Allegedly evolution requires thousands of years for a beneficial mutation. No animal would've been able to survive the alleged meteor strike that wiped out the dinosaurs. Also, how is evolution always beneficial? Wouldn't a species occasionally change for the worst?