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Islam, Homosexuality and Mehdi Hasan

muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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1/12/2014 9:06:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What is Islam's stance on homosexuality?
Are the ahadith condeming it reliable?
Does the quran's rendition of the story of Lot serve as evidence that homosexuality is forbidden in Islam? Here are some articles for your consideration:

http://omarshahid.co.uk...

http://america.aljazeera.com...

Also, is Mehdi Hasan - a famous Muslim journalist - trying, but failing, to not sound like a homophobe in this article? I feel like he merely says that homosexuals should not be harassed in this article, but does not condemn the idea that homosexual acts are a sin, and this is a problem in my opinion.

http://www.newstatesman.com...
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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1/13/2014 10:43:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/12/2014 9:06:57 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
What is Islam's stance on homosexuality?
Are the ahadith condeming it reliable?
Does the quran's rendition of the story of Lot serve as evidence that homosexuality is forbidden in Islam? Here are some articles for your consideration:


http://omarshahid.co.uk...

http://america.aljazeera.com...


Also, is Mehdi Hasan - a famous Muslim journalist - trying, but failing, to not sound like a homophobe in this article? I feel like he merely says that homosexuals should not be harassed in this article, but does not condemn the idea that homosexual acts are a sin, and this is a problem in my opinion.

http://www.newstatesman.com...

Are you mixing Islam with some Muslims opinions ?

Are you looking for the view of God , or the view of some people ?

People differ and can be emotionally biased to very biased like yourself, God always forbade homosexuality and islam couldn't have been different than Judaism and Christianity on this matter.

The verses about the People of Lott aren't the sole evidence to forbid this perverted act , there are also the authentic hadeeths.

If you look for a religious reliable opinion, take a religious reliable website , like this one:

http://www.islamweb.net...
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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1/13/2014 10:49:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/13/2014 10:43:26 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 1/12/2014 9:06:57 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
What is Islam's stance on homosexuality?
Are the ahadith condeming it reliable?
Does the quran's rendition of the story of Lot serve as evidence that homosexuality is forbidden in Islam? Here are some articles for your consideration:


http://omarshahid.co.uk...

http://america.aljazeera.com...


Also, is Mehdi Hasan - a famous Muslim journalist - trying, but failing, to not sound like a homophobe in this article? I feel like he merely says that homosexuals should not be harassed in this article, but does not condemn the idea that homosexual acts are a sin, and this is a problem in my opinion.

http://www.newstatesman.com...

Are you mixing Islam with some Muslims opinions ?

Are you looking for the view of God , or the view of some people ?

People differ and can be emotionally biased to very biased like yourself, God always forbade homosexuality and islam couldn't have been different than Judaism and Christianity on this matter.
Yeah CRAP............try again.
The verses about the People of Lott aren't the sole evidence to forbid this perverted act , there are also the authentic hadeeths.

If you look for a religious reliable opinion, take a religious reliable website , like this one:

http://www.islamweb.net...
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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1/13/2014 12:54:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
You already know how I feel about Hadith, so I'll skip that minefield.

From what I recall, there is no specific punishment prescribed for homosexual activity, that isn't prescribed for sexual activity (out of wedlock intercourse). I believe the Quran condemns homosexuality as "wrong", but doesn't command Muslims to actively punish the wrongdoers, simply for being homosexual.

I suppose this could qualify as homophobic, though I don't see it as a problem, as long as Muslims aren't commanded to actively infringe upon the rights of said homosexual, in a way they wouldn't for a heterosexual.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
Dazz
Posts: 1,163
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1/13/2014 1:45:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Today, I realized a representation isn't a reality. People seems you to be supportive but they by themselves aren't so much knowledgeable to be complimentary. If you really wanna know something, you must know that misrepresentation can be everywhere around. Even the case exists in the posts of this thread, too.
Remove the "I want", remainder is the "peace". ~Al-Ghazali~
"This time will also pass", a dose to cure both; the excitement & the grievance. ~Ayaz~
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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1/13/2014 6:23:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/13/2014 1:45:28 PM, Dazz wrote:
Today, I realized a representation isn't a reality. People seems you to be supportive but they by themselves aren't so much knowledgeable to be complimentary. If you really wanna know something, you must know that misrepresentation can be everywhere around. Even the case exists in the posts of this thread, too.

this one deserves a jackie chan meme.
Dazz
Posts: 1,163
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1/14/2014 5:09:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/13/2014 6:23:22 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 1/13/2014 1:45:28 PM, Dazz wrote:
Today, I realized a representation isn't a reality. People seems you to be supportive but they by themselves aren't so much knowledgeable to be complimentary. If you really wanna know something, you must know that misrepresentation can be everywhere around. Even the case exists in the posts of this thread, too.

this one deserves a jackie chan meme.

Why? What happened? And BTW what kind of behavior is this? I'm not impressed.
Remove the "I want", remainder is the "peace". ~Al-Ghazali~
"This time will also pass", a dose to cure both; the excitement & the grievance. ~Ayaz~
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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1/14/2014 1:43:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/12/2014 9:06:57 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
does not condemn the idea that homosexual acts are a sin, and this is a problem in my opinion.
No, it's not a problem. Homosexuals are not threatened by the Islamic ideology, nor a Muslim-majority society. Only if they start ruling without secularism it becomes a problem. Muslims also deem fornication sinful, yet secular countries like Bosnia and Turkey, where Muslims have been present and ruled for centuries, not only permit it, but also freely enjoy it.
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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1/14/2014 6:57:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/14/2014 1:43:14 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 1/12/2014 9:06:57 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
does not condemn the idea that homosexual acts are a sin, and this is a problem in my opinion.
No, it's not a problem. Homosexuals are not threatened by the Islamic ideology, nor a Muslim-majority society. Only if they start ruling without secularism it becomes a problem. Muslims also deem fornication sinful, yet secular countries like Bosnia and Turkey, where Muslims have been present and ruled for centuries, not only permit it, but also freely enjoy it.

how do you start ruling without secularism and what exactly does this statement mean?
YYW
Posts: 36,252
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1/14/2014 7:02:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/12/2014 9:06:57 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
What is Islam's stance on homosexuality?
Are the ahadith condeming it reliable?
Does the quran's rendition of the story of Lot serve as evidence that homosexuality is forbidden in Islam? Here are some articles for your consideration:


http://omarshahid.co.uk...

http://america.aljazeera.com...


Also, is Mehdi Hasan - a famous Muslim journalist - trying, but failing, to not sound like a homophobe in this article? I feel like he merely says that homosexuals should not be harassed in this article, but does not condemn the idea that homosexual acts are a sin, and this is a problem in my opinion.

http://www.newstatesman.com...

I didn't read the articles, but if you are correct and this fellow failed to condemn the idea that homosexuality is a sin, why is that a problem?
Tsar of DDO
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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1/14/2014 7:20:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/14/2014 6:57:13 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
At 1/14/2014 1:43:14 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 1/12/2014 9:06:57 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
does not condemn the idea that homosexual acts are a sin, and this is a problem in my opinion.
No, it's not a problem. Homosexuals are not threatened by the Islamic ideology, nor a Muslim-majority society. Only if they start ruling without secularism it becomes a problem. Muslims also deem fornication sinful, yet secular countries like Bosnia and Turkey, where Muslims have been present and ruled for centuries, not only permit it, but also freely enjoy it.

how do you start ruling without secularism and what exactly does this statement mean?
By ruling through religious law. (As interpreted by twisted nuts.) Case example - Saudi Arabia.
muslimnomore
Posts: 369
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1/14/2014 7:39:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I didn't read the articles, but if you are correct and this fellow failed to condemn the idea that homosexuality is a sin, why is that a problem?

Because it is an offensive idea. Homosexuals have family members who hate them because of ideas like this.

Having sex with a consenting adult is not a crime and it does not hurt anyone.
YYW
Posts: 36,252
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1/14/2014 7:58:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/14/2014 7:39:41 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
I didn't read the articles, but if you are correct and this fellow failed to condemn the idea that homosexuality is a sin, why is that a problem?

Because it is an offensive idea. Homosexuals have family members who hate them because of ideas like this.

Well, I'm not so sure the idea is offensive itself but I do fully agree that it's a problem that family members would hate other family members on the basis of their sexual orientation alone. So, I'm more inclined to think that family members hating other family members on the basis of their sexual orientation is what ought to be focused on and reformed, not necessarily whether homosexuality is a sin.

Truth be told, I'm not nearly as literate in Islamic theology as I am in Christian theology, but I think the issues in both cases are similar. While the debate over whether homosexuality is or is not a sin is important (and I can happily have it with anyone who thinks that homosexuality is a sin), the bigger issue is how people react to sinners. Hate is itself an act of judgement, as is seclusion. While I'm not sure how Islam approaches this issue, Christians believe that all people are inherently sinners because of the Fall -and in that sin is inherent, to be perpetually in sin is inseparable from what it means to be a Christian. What gets problematic is when people start making arbitrary distinctions between some types of sin and others, because their very doing so is itself an act of judgement -and therefore something they are not in a position to do.

At least, that's how I think of it...

Having sex with a consenting adult is not a crime and it does not hurt anyone.

Well, in some places (like Nigeria, and many countries throughout Africa, the Middle East and some parts of Asia) men having sex with other men is a crime, and in other places not only is it a crime, but it is punishable by death (like Iran, and others). It shouldn't be a crime, though for, among other reasons, it hurts no one, as you said.
Tsar of DDO
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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1/14/2014 8:27:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/14/2014 7:39:41 PM, muslimnomore wrote:
Because it is an offensive idea. Homosexuals have family members who hate them because of ideas like this.
Their culture shapes this view more than their religion. Believing it's a sin to act upon homosexuality is one thing. Hating your children on that basis is another thing.