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About Heaven

CynicalDiogenes
Posts: 147
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1/15/2014 1:35:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I want a discussion of what you believe the afterlife will be like,why you believe it to be correct, and what your religion or tradition describes it as.
Seat of Wisdom, pray for us who turn to you!

Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.-St.Thomas Aquinas
All the darkness in the world cannot extinguish the light of a single candle.~ St.Francis of Assisi
dadman
Posts: 272
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1/15/2014 2:03:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
After you've decifered all the crap .. find out what the bible says according to one of the best teachers on the planet ........

Are your ideas about heaven based on hearsay or hard fact? How do the amazing claims of people who say they have been to heaven line up with the Bible's own description? And what will we do once we're in heaven? .. Finding the answers is simple: piece together the biblical details, sift out the popular myths, and you have an amazingly accurate picture of heaven, angels, and the afterlife . . . That's what John MacArthur does in his classic, best-selling study with the simple title"Heaven ......
http://www.gty.org... enjoy
And he (God) gave some apostles .. and some prophets .. and some evangelists .. and some teaching pastors .. for the perfecting of the saints .. for the work of the ministry .. for the edifying of the body of Christ .. till we all come in the unity of the faith .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God .. to a perfect (complete) man .. to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . . Ephesians 4:12 .. http://dadmansabode.com... .. come and learn
biomystic
Posts: 606
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1/15/2014 2:57:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
More Bible bull. I for one do not want to go to any "heaven" composed of a gigantic crystal and jewel and gold CUBE 14 miles on a side inside of which thousands of angels would be boring as hell singing 24/7 around a Big Throne with what sitting on it? Are you serious? That is your Bible Heaven and you can have it. I'll take the Near Death Experience heavens, thank you, they really are heavenly and not some ancient priests idea of what a heaven would be based on ancient symbolic icons, like a golden throne.

Family and friends who have gone on ahead are there waiting for you to come HOME. That's Heaven. Accept no phony Bible man-made substitutes..demand the real deal.
TheSquirrel
Posts: 83
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1/15/2014 4:21:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The best I can say about my "after life" is my body will decompose and it's atoms will become a part of something else. Everything that made me "me" is stored up in my brain and with my brain's death, so I to will die, with nowhere to go. Anything else is speculation, pseudoscience, or extraordinary religious claims with no evidence.
biomystic
Posts: 606
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1/15/2014 4:30:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/15/2014 4:21:10 PM, TheSquirrel wrote:
The best I can say about my "after life" is my body will decompose and it's atoms will become a part of something else. Everything that made me "me" is stored up in my brain and with my brain's death, so I to will die, with nowhere to go. Anything else is speculation, pseudoscience, or extraordinary religious claims with no evidence.

I exist and exist in our times as a Jewish Christian prophesy bearer and I bear witness from our future selves that humanity will inevitably discover the means by which each and every single living and dead consciousness will be restored fully. Jurassic Park may be fantasy in our times but already plans are moving forward for a Pleistocene Park in reality with wooly mammoths being here with us once again. Our genetic science is utterly primitive to what's coming down the time line. Our future selves have embedded this information in the dominant global culture as Jesus' telling Christians they will be able to have powers even beyond his and this is the Logic of History as well. No atheist living in our times can logically put a door stop to the future and discovery of how Life works is the future of humanity.
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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1/15/2014 4:48:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/15/2014 1:35:55 PM, CynicalDiogenes wrote:
I want a discussion of what you believe the afterlife will be like,why you believe it to be correct, and what your religion or tradition describes it as.

I think the idea of an afterlife is quite interesting. I personally don't believe it for several reasons. This is a response to Dadman as well.

1. Varying accounts by differing religion. All religions have a different idea of heaven, hell if they even believe in it. We can easily connect their culture to their belief in heaven or hell. The Norse believed in a heaven that could be destroyed, because they too knew that they could be wiped out by a bad winter at any time. The Greeks believed in a chaotic and somewhat unfair purgatory because of their glorification of heroic deeds and respect for warriors and heroes. The Hindus believe in reincarnation and karma, because that is what keeps the caste system alive. The ancient Jews did not have hell, and their idea of heaven was foggy at best, because they were more concerned with the material world and their impact in it. The Christians believe in a literal hell and heaven because they formed when there was access to the beliefs of Tartarus from the Greeks and the heaven and hell of the Zoroastrians.

2. Seeing what you want to see. Why doesn't anyone who had a near death experience or died and came back ever see hell? Or why doesn't anyone ever seem to be in a hurry to die again? And why do people only ever see their idea of heaven as described by their religion, and not some other?

3. The fact that the ancient Jews did not have heaven or hell. If the Christian religion is based on the afterlife, and it is from Judaism, wouldn't Judaism have even mentioned people burning in a lake of fire? The Jews get punished by death, mauling, being driven out, having to wander a desert, castration of the foreskin and famine. You know what seems to be missing? Punishments that occur after death. It just doesn't happen. And when you see the religions that the Jews of the New Testament era would have had knowledge of, it is easy to see where the concepts not mentioned in the old testament came from.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
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Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
TheSquirrel
Posts: 83
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1/15/2014 4:51:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/15/2014 4:30:35 PM, biomystic wrote:
At 1/15/2014 4:21:10 PM, TheSquirrel wrote:
The best I can say about my "after life" is my body will decompose and it's atoms will become a part of something else. Everything that made me "me" is stored up in my brain and with my brain's death, so I to will die, with nowhere to go. Anything else is speculation, pseudoscience, or extraordinary religious claims with no evidence.

I exist and exist in our times as a Jewish Christian prophesy bearer and I bear witness from our future selves that humanity will inevitably discover the means by which each and every single living and dead consciousness will be restored fully. Jurassic Park may be fantasy in our times but already plans are moving forward for a Pleistocene Park in reality with wooly mammoths being here with us once again. Our genetic science is utterly primitive to what's coming down the time line. Our future selves have embedded this information in the dominant global culture as Jesus' telling Christians they will be able to have powers even beyond his and this is the Logic of History as well. No atheist living in our times can logically put a door stop to the future and discovery of how Life works is the future of humanity.

...
Well, that's quite a claim.
LAZARUS77
Posts: 109
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1/15/2014 5:31:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
i dont know much about another than christanity and islam. you'r christain so you must know your faith. here what islam says:

i will give few there are a lot.. first in Quran:
-"The description of Paradise which the Muttaqoon (God fearing) have been promised is that in it are rivers of water, the taste and smell of which are never changed. Rivers of milk the taste of which will remain unchanged. Rivers of wine that will be delicious to those who drink from it and rivers of clear, pure honey. For them will be every kind of fruit and forgiveness form their Lord." [ 47:15]

-"And their recompense shall be Paradise, and silken garments, because they were patient. Reclining on raised thrones, they will see there neither the excessive heat of the sun, nor the excessive bitter cold, (as in Paradise there is no sun and no moon). The shade will be close upon them, and bunches of fruit will hang low within their reach. Vessels of silver and cups of crystal will be passed around amongst them, crystal-clear, made of silver. They will determine the measure of them according to their wishes. They will be given a cup (of wine) mixed with Zanjabeel, and a fountain called Salsabeel. Around them will (serve) boys of perpetual youth. If you see them, you would think they are scattered pearls. When you look there (in Paradise) you will see a delight (that cannot be imagined), and a Great Dominion. Their garments will be of fine green silk and gold embroidery. They will be adorned with bracelets of silver, and their Lord will give them a pure drink." [76:12-21]

-They will be reclining, face to face, on thrones woven with gold and precious stones. They will be served by immortal boys, with cups and jugs, and a glass from the flowing wine, from which they will have neither any headache, nor any intoxication. They will have fruit from which they may choose, and the flesh of fowls that they desire. There will be Houris with wide, lovely eyes (as wives for the pious), like preserved pearls, a reward for deeds that they used to do. They will hear no vain or sinful speech (like backbiting, etc.) but only the saying of: Salam, Salam, (greetings of peace). And those on the Right Hand, who will be those on the Right Hand? They will be among thorn-less lote-trees among Talh (banana trees) with fruits piled one above another, in long-extended shade, by constantly flowing water, and fruit in plenty, whose season is not limited, and their supply will not be cut off. They will be on couches or thrones raised high. Verily, We have created for them (maidens) of equal age, loving (their husbands only). For those on the Right Hand." [56:10-38]

-"Verily, the dwellers of Paradise that Day, will be busy in joyful things. They and their wives will be in pleasant shade, reclining on thrones. They will have therein fruits (of all kinds), and all that they will ask for. (It will be said to them): "Salamun" (Peace be on you), a Word from the Lord, Most Merciful." [36:55-58]

-"So no soul knows the delights of the eyes which is hidden for them; a reward for what they did." [32:17]

"Allah has purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the Garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law (of Moses), the Gospel (of Jesus), and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain, which you have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." [9:111]

Hadiths (sayings of the prophet) describing Paradise:
-"Bricks of gold and silver, and mortar of fragrant musk, pebbles of pearl and sapphire, and soil of saffron. Whoever enters it is filled with joy and will never feel miserable; he will live there forever and never die; their clothes will never wear out and their youth will never fade."

-"Verily in Paradise there is a market in which (the inhabitants of Paradise) will come to every Friday. The North wind will blow and scatter fragrances on their faces and on their clothes. This will add to their beauty and their attractiveness. They will then go back to their families after having an added luster to their beauty and their attractiveness. Their families will say to them, 'By Allah you have been increased in beauty and loveliness after leaving us,' and they will say, 'By Allah you too have increased in beauty and attractiveness after us.'

-"A place in Paradise as small as the bow or lash of one of you is better than all the world and whatever is in it"

- "There is a tree in Paradise (which is so big and huge that) if a rider travels in its shade for one hundred years, he would not be able to cross it."

-"The inhabitants of Paradise are hairless, beardless and have black eyes, their youth does not pass away and their garments do not wear out."

-"Paradise has eight gates, and one of them is called Ar-Raiyan through which none will enter but those who observe fasting."

there are many more... anyway for more research - http://www.islamicislamic.com...
No man is a true believer unless he desires for his brother that, what he desires for himself. - Prophet Muhammad saw
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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1/15/2014 11:12:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/15/2014 1:35:55 PM, CynicalDiogenes wrote:
I want a discussion of what you believe the afterlife will be like,why you believe it to be correct, and what your religion or tradition describes it as.

We're already in Heaven but if you're patient enough, I can describe to you how we'll be experiencing life in Paradise, the new Earthly Kingdom after this world is destroyed.
biomystic
Posts: 606
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1/15/2014 11:23:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/15/2014 11:12:10 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 1/15/2014 1:35:55 PM, CynicalDiogenes wrote:
I want a discussion of what you believe the afterlife will be like,why you believe it to be correct, and what your religion or tradition describes it as.

We're already in Heaven but if you're patient enough, I can describe to you how we'll be experiencing life in Paradise, the new Earthly Kingdom after this world is destroyed.

No thanks. I've got grandchildren who enjoy this world and they will have children and so forth. You want to rob them of their future which is another indication why you are a false prophet and spreading lies about God who you know not, only some Shadow that's got you transvexed spiritually.
biomystic
Posts: 606
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1/15/2014 11:39:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Lazarus, Muhammad's Islam doesn't withstand historical or logical or spiritual consistency. Muhammad's ideas cannot be trusted because he too was another Gentile trying to steal Jewish religious ideas and failing to understand them in the process. And now, God has demolished all Abrahamic religious foundation by Israeil archeologists unable to find any traces of the Hebrews who wrote the Bible (Torah/Tanakh) before 700 B.C.

Do you understand what this means? It means all those stories of earlier Hebrews/Israelites are fabrications, Jewish myths of origin that never happened. Which is why archeologists in the Holy Land cannot find any archeological traces of the major Bible events and personages. Muhammad took Jewish myths of origin as real history. Neither Allah or Gabriel informed Muhammad of this historical fact and now since it has become revealed it makes all of Muhammad's ideas in the Quran only Muhammad's ideas, i.e. there is no spiritual authority there because there is not spiritual authority in the Bible stories Muhammad bases his spiritual authority upon. No Abraham, no Moses. No spiritual authority. It cannot be derived from lies and liars.

Muhammad's Islam is heading for its End Times along with Judaism and Pauline Christianity as all three are dependent on people believing the Bible stories are real history of the Jewish people.

Luckily, a New Islam is coming! God loves the original idea of surrendering one's life to God but not just Something all powerful, but something Good. The Source of Peace, Salaam. I have surrendered my life to God as Peace for example. It will be Muslim women who forge the New Islam, btw, as Muslim men must now show repentance for all the centuries of physical and psychological abuse of women done in the name of Allah. Muslim women will remake Islam into something very Good. My prophesy.

Also, Paxcalibur, the Holy Land's newest and most spiritual powerful religious icon, is recognized now by Muslims who have seen it as the True Sword of Jihad, the Sword of Peace, the New Word of God that needs no human language to convey exactly what God wants of us now.
CynicalDiogenes
Posts: 147
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1/16/2014 4:15:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
There are 2 verses that i find particularly interesting.

In Luke 17:21 Jesus says "the Kingdom of God is within you"

and in John he says "You are all Gods"

I personally don't think of the afterlife as a place with sensual pleasures as it is often portrayed, rather it is here and now, and is a state of complete union with God,the 'perfection of faith', that can be achieved in this lifetime.

I used to wander a lot as a teen, and I admit, that my exposure to Buddhism and Hinduism is what led me to this conclusion.

Even certain segments of the Catechism of the Catholic church, and the works of mystics such as the "Cloud of Unknowing" and 'City of God' seem to imply this.

If 'Bible alone christians are against this, please explain how those verses are understood by you.

If you are catholic, and disagree, please give me a link to encyclicals,decrees as well as decision of councils that show that my understanding are wrong.If you feel the catechism of the catholic church is against this view, please show me what the correct view is.
Seat of Wisdom, pray for us who turn to you!

Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.-St.Thomas Aquinas
All the darkness in the world cannot extinguish the light of a single candle.~ St.Francis of Assisi
CynicalDiogenes
Posts: 147
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1/16/2014 4:17:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/15/2014 2:57:26 PM, biomystic wrote:
More Bible bull. I for one do not want to go to any "heaven" composed of a gigantic crystal and jewel and gold CUBE 14 miles on a side inside of which thousands of angels would be boring as hell singing 24/7 around a Big Throne with what sitting on it? Are you serious? That is your Bible Heaven and you can have it. I'll take the Near Death Experience heavens, thank you, they really are heavenly and not some ancient priests idea of what a heaven would be based on ancient symbolic icons, like a golden throne.

Family and friends who have gone on ahead are there waiting for you to come HOME. That's Heaven. Accept no phony Bible man-made substitutes..demand the real deal.

The surprising thing is that most of the early christians did not subscribe to this belief.

Heaven is not a place with sense pleasures.See my other post.
Seat of Wisdom, pray for us who turn to you!

Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.-St.Thomas Aquinas
All the darkness in the world cannot extinguish the light of a single candle.~ St.Francis of Assisi
biomystic
Posts: 606
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1/16/2014 6:44:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/16/2014 4:15:54 AM, CynicalDiogenes wrote:
There are 2 verses that i find particularly interesting.

In Luke 17:21 Jesus says "the Kingdom of God is within you"

and in John he says "You are all Gods"

I personally don't think of the afterlife as a place with sensual pleasures as it is often portrayed, rather it is here and now, and is a state of complete union with God,the 'perfection of faith', that can be achieved in this lifetime.

I used to wander a lot as a teen, and I admit, that my exposure to Buddhism and Hinduism is what led me to this conclusion.

Even certain segments of the Catechism of the Catholic church, and the works of mystics such as the "Cloud of Unknowing" and 'City of God' seem to imply this.

If 'Bible alone christians are against this, please explain how those verses are understood by you.

If you are catholic, and disagree, please give me a link to encyclicals,decrees as well as decision of councils that show that my understanding are wrong.If you feel the catechism of the catholic church is against this view, please show me what the correct view is.

There is a Fatal Flaw in the Eastern idea of reality that wants to do away with personality and personal consciousness and replace it with an egoless oceanic union with the ALL. Western Christian mystic traditions go this route too and both are rejected by God Most High, the Canaanite/Jewish/Christian God, as being false pathways to true consciousness of God. One notes that the peoples following the Eastern religious pathways cannot feed or house their peoples adequately and now must use Western ways to catch up in social welfare for the people. If the Eastern religion cannot take care of its people does not that say something about it? Where Buddhism still rules, the people are backward, lacking democratic opportunity because of being still in the feudal age.

The Fatal Flaw? It was found by brain scientists studying Buddhist monks' brains while they were meditating. Found was a one to one correlation between what the monks themselves reported about their progress towards achieving the state of satori, short hand, "Buddha Mind", and their abilities to deactivate their brain's sense of self center located in the parietal region which gives us our sense of who and where we are in time and space. It appears that when this area of the brain is effectively tranquilized, shut down by intensive meditation techniques, and released electrical brain energy is shunted to the frontal lobes where higher cognition and bliss pleasure centers are located, it gives the person a sense of egolessness oceanic oneness with God as a Great ALL or without God at all, only ONENESS.

In short, this Eastern goal of higher "spiritual" consciousness rests upon quite severe brain manipulation, disabling a major brain area in order to achieve relief from psychic pain and get high. Drugs also are major brain manipulators and who thinks drugs are worthy of worship? Drug addicts. The reason one sees all those Buddha statues of Buddha lying down, sitting, sleeping, sleepy-eyed, never running, never active, is because when the brain's sense of self center is shut down it's not so easy to get up and navigate. Walking Buddha state takes another level of training. It's all Lotus Land brain trickery. Who needs it.

Celestial Torah Christianity. That's of God and won't let you down because salvation is of us Jews. This is the newest Testament arriving on time for the New Age.
CynicalDiogenes
Posts: 147
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1/16/2014 7:31:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/16/2014 6:44:21 AM, biomystic wrote:
At 1/16/2014 4:15:54 AM, CynicalDiogenes wrote:
There are 2 verses that i find particularly interesting.

In Luke 17:21 Jesus says "the Kingdom of God is within you"

and in John he says "You are all Gods"

I personally don't think of the afterlife as a place with sensual pleasures as it is often portrayed, rather it is here and now, and is a state of complete union with God,the 'perfection of faith', that can be achieved in this lifetime.

I used to wander a lot as a teen, and I admit, that my exposure to Buddhism and Hinduism is what led me to this conclusion.

Even certain segments of the Catechism of the Catholic church, and the works of mystics such as the "Cloud of Unknowing" and 'City of God' seem to imply this.

If 'Bible alone christians are against this, please explain how those verses are understood by you.

If you are catholic, and disagree, please give me a link to encyclicals,decrees as well as decision of councils that show that my understanding are wrong.If you feel the catechism of the catholic church is against this view, please show me what the correct view is.

There is a Fatal Flaw in the Eastern idea of reality that wants to do away with personality and personal consciousness and replace it with an egoless oceanic union with the ALL. Western Christian mystic traditions go this route too and both are rejected by God Most High, the Canaanite/Jewish/Christian God, as being false pathways to true consciousness of God. One notes that the peoples following the Eastern religious pathways cannot feed or house their peoples adequately and now must use Western ways to catch up in social welfare for the people. If the Eastern religion cannot take care of its people does not that say something about it? Where Buddhism still rules, the people are backward, lacking democratic opportunity because of being still in the feudal age.

The Fatal Flaw? It was found by brain scientists studying Buddhist monks' brains while they were meditating. Found was a one to one correlation between what the monks themselves reported about their progress towards achieving the state of satori, short hand, "Buddha Mind", and their abilities to deactivate their brain's sense of self center located in the parietal region which gives us our sense of who and where we are in time and space. It appears that when this area of the brain is effectively tranquilized, shut down by intensive meditation techniques, and released electrical brain energy is shunted to the frontal lobes where higher cognition and bliss pleasure centers are located, it gives the person a sense of egolessness oceanic oneness with God as a Great ALL or without God at all, only ONENESS.

In short, this Eastern goal of higher "spiritual" consciousness rests upon quite severe brain manipulation, disabling a major brain area in order to achieve relief from psychic pain and get high. Drugs also are major brain manipulators and who thinks drugs are worthy of worship? Drug addicts. The reason one sees all those Buddha statues of Buddha lying down, sitting, sleeping, sleepy-eyed, never running, never active, is because when the brain's sense of self center is shut down it's not so easy to get up and navigate. Walking Buddha state takes another level of training. It's all Lotus Land brain trickery. Who needs it.

Celestial Torah Christianity. That's of God and won't let you down because salvation is of us Jews. This is the newest Testament arriving on time for the New Age.

Firstly, Ancient India was one of the most prosperous nations.So when these teachings and philosophies were proposed, the people of the east could very well house and feed themselves,and they had many modern amenities like running water, and straight streets, when most of Europe was living in caves like animals.

Also,The Jews in contrast were probably the most hated and persecuted bunch in world history.Other than King David, who was a minor ruler at best,and maybe King Solomon, they were among the poorest and most insignificant tribes in the ancient world.Until recently, they were regularly killed, and did not even have a homeland.Is this proof, that something is wrong with the Jewish religion?

Spiritual truths , like all truths do not depend on who is saying them.The fact that some Buddhist countries are poor today proves nothing.
In contrast, by placing economic status as a criterion for judging the truth, you seem to display a certain ignorance about the spiritual way.

Forget about buddhahood, let us talk about happiness.Modern scientists have found out that happiness has been linked to certain sections of the brain, and that many drugs that are abused actually simulate those areas.

Does this automatically mean that the pursuit of happiness itself the same thing as drug addiction?

What is really interesting is the fact that mystics from diverse cultures, Jewish Kabbalists, Islamic Sufis like Rumi, Christian Mystics like St.Fracis of Assissi, all seem to have had similar experiences, and seem to have had felt this 'oneness with the entire universe'.

All of them were devout to their own path, and they all found the truth that was similar.

I quoted those Bible verses to show that Jesus said similar things too.I want to know how others interpret these verses.You have not done that.

The Jews knew the name of God.YHWH also means 'I am'.Have you ever wondered about what you really are?what it is to actually exist to be?To be able to say 'I am'?

this is what the Hindus have done in the Upanishads.To find out about the self.
Please don't condemn something as false if you do not know what it is really about.

the Salvation did come of the Jews because they were told the name of God personally by him,even though they did not realise what it meant.Why can't Hindus and Buddhists figure this out on their own?Is God partial in that way?
Seat of Wisdom, pray for us who turn to you!

Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.-St.Thomas Aquinas
All the darkness in the world cannot extinguish the light of a single candle.~ St.Francis of Assisi
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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1/16/2014 7:32:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/15/2014 11:23:45 PM, biomystic wrote:
At 1/15/2014 11:12:10 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 1/15/2014 1:35:55 PM, CynicalDiogenes wrote:
I want a discussion of what you believe the afterlife will be like,why you believe it to be correct, and what your religion or tradition describes it as.

We're already in Heaven but if you're patient enough, I can describe to you how we'll be experiencing life in Paradise, the new Earthly Kingdom after this world is destroyed.

No thanks. I've got grandchildren who enjoy this world and they will have children and so forth. You want to rob them of their future which is another indication why you are a false prophet and spreading lies about God who you know not, only some Shadow that's got you transvexed spiritually.

Everything you see are only illusions that come from our invisible created existence as God's thoughts. Whatever happens in the future is in God so you have nothing to worry about.
CynicalDiogenes
Posts: 147
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1/16/2014 7:36:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/15/2014 11:12:10 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 1/15/2014 1:35:55 PM, CynicalDiogenes wrote:
I want a discussion of what you believe the afterlife will be like,why you believe it to be correct, and what your religion or tradition describes it as.

We're already in Heaven but if you're patient enough, I can describe to you how we'll be experiencing life in Paradise, the new Earthly Kingdom after this world is destroyed.

This is what St.Augustine said in the 'City of God'.It is also written in the Gnostic 'Gospel of St.Thomas'. Hindu philosophers like Adi Shankara have propounded a similar belief 500 years before the birth of Christ.

what is unique that God only revealed to you?
Seat of Wisdom, pray for us who turn to you!

Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.-St.Thomas Aquinas
All the darkness in the world cannot extinguish the light of a single candle.~ St.Francis of Assisi
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/16/2014 7:37:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/16/2014 7:32:41 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 1/15/2014 11:23:45 PM, biomystic wrote:
At 1/15/2014 11:12:10 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 1/15/2014 1:35:55 PM, CynicalDiogenes wrote:
I want a discussion of what you believe the afterlife will be like,why you believe it to be correct, and what your religion or tradition describes it as.

We're already in Heaven but if you're patient enough, I can describe to you how we'll be experiencing life in Paradise, the new Earthly Kingdom after this world is destroyed.

No thanks. I've got grandchildren who enjoy this world and they will have children and so forth. You want to rob them of their future which is another indication why you are a false prophet and spreading lies about God who you know not, only some Shadow that's got you transvexed spiritually.

Everything you see are only illusions that come from our invisible created existence as God's thoughts. Whatever happens in the future is in God so you have nothing to worry about.

I'm calling you out. You stole your entire philosophy from David Icke
CynicalDiogenes
Posts: 147
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1/16/2014 7:47:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/15/2014 5:31:26 PM, LAZARUS77 wrote:
i dont know much about another than christanity and islam. you'r christain so you must know your faith. here what islam says:

i will give few there are a lot.. first in Quran:
-"The description of Paradise which the Muttaqoon (God fearing) have been promised is that in it are rivers of water, the taste and smell of which are never changed. Rivers of milk the taste of which will remain unchanged. Rivers of wine that will be delicious to those who drink from it and rivers of clear, pure honey. For them will be every kind of fruit and forgiveness form their Lord." [ 47:15]

-"And their recompense shall be Paradise, and silken garments, because they were patient. Reclining on raised thrones, they will see there neither the excessive heat of the sun, nor the excessive bitter cold, (as in Paradise there is no sun and no moon). The shade will be close upon them, and bunches of fruit will hang low within their reach. Vessels of silver and cups of crystal will be passed around amongst them, crystal-clear, made of silver. They will determine the measure of them according to their wishes. They will be given a cup (of wine) mixed with Zanjabeel, and a fountain called Salsabeel. Around them will (serve) boys of perpetual youth. If you see them, you would think they are scattered pearls. When you look there (in Paradise) you will see a delight (that cannot be imagined), and a Great Dominion. Their garments will be of fine green silk and gold embroidery. They will be adorned with bracelets of silver, and their Lord will give them a pure drink." [76:12-21]

-They will be reclining, face to face, on thrones woven with gold and precious stones. They will be served by immortal boys, with cups and jugs, and a glass from the flowing wine, from which they will have neither any headache, nor any intoxication. They will have fruit from which they may choose, and the flesh of fowls that they desire. There will be Houris with wide, lovely eyes (as wives for the pious), like preserved pearls, a reward for deeds that they used to do. They will hear no vain or sinful speech (like backbiting, etc.) but only the saying of: Salam, Salam, (greetings of peace). And those on the Right Hand, who will be those on the Right Hand? They will be among thorn-less lote-trees among Talh (banana trees) with fruits piled one above another, in long-extended shade, by constantly flowing water, and fruit in plenty, whose season is not limited, and their supply will not be cut off. They will be on couches or thrones raised high. Verily, We have created for them (maidens) of equal age, loving (their husbands only). For those on the Right Hand." [56:10-38]

-"Verily, the dwellers of Paradise that Day, will be busy in joyful things. They and their wives will be in pleasant shade, reclining on thrones. They will have therein fruits (of all kinds), and all that they will ask for. (It will be said to them): "Salamun" (Peace be on you), a Word from the Lord, Most Merciful." [36:55-58]

-"So no soul knows the delights of the eyes which is hidden for them; a reward for what they did." [32:17]

"Allah has purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the Garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law (of Moses), the Gospel (of Jesus), and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain, which you have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." [9:111]

Hadiths (sayings of the prophet) describing Paradise:
-"Bricks of gold and silver, and mortar of fragrant musk, pebbles of pearl and sapphire, and soil of saffron. Whoever enters it is filled with joy and will never feel miserable; he will live there forever and never die; their clothes will never wear out and their youth will never fade."

-"Verily in Paradise there is a market in which (the inhabitants of Paradise) will come to every Friday. The North wind will blow and scatter fragrances on their faces and on their clothes. This will add to their beauty and their attractiveness. They will then go back to their families after having an added luster to their beauty and their attractiveness. Their families will say to them, 'By Allah you have been increased in beauty and loveliness after leaving us,' and they will say, 'By Allah you too have increased in beauty and attractiveness after us.'

-"A place in Paradise as small as the bow or lash of one of you is better than all the world and whatever is in it"

- "There is a tree in Paradise (which is so big and huge that) if a rider travels in its shade for one hundred years, he would not be able to cross it."

-"The inhabitants of Paradise are hairless, beardless and have black eyes, their youth does not pass away and their garments do not wear out."

-"Paradise has eight gates, and one of them is called Ar-Raiyan through which none will enter but those who observe fasting."

there are many more... anyway for more research - http://www.islamicislamic.com...

Thank you for sharing this view.However we seem to have some disagreements.While I have a lot of respect for Muslims, especially Sufis like Rumi,This description of the afterlife is one of the main reason that lead me to reject Islam as false.Are you sure that this teaching is authentic and accurate?

Religion should make people aware of the impermanence of sense pleasures.It should help people transcend them.(the other being the verse that "God does not love transgressors")Jesus who you claim is a prophet explicitly spoke out against hoarding sense pleasures.

True happiness comes from within.True wisdom comes from within.It is not based on how much milk,wine or food you eat, nor is it in the senses or in sex with 72 virgins.

If there were these things in heaven, people will automatically get bored if they are going to live with the same stuff for ever with nothing to do. It is pathetic to forgo pleasures in this life only to seek them in the next.

A more sensible way to about would be to be free from the bondage of senses, and to be disciplined enough to be content with less.
Seat of Wisdom, pray for us who turn to you!

Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.-St.Thomas Aquinas
All the darkness in the world cannot extinguish the light of a single candle.~ St.Francis of Assisi
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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1/16/2014 8:01:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/16/2014 7:37:25 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/16/2014 7:32:41 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 1/15/2014 11:23:45 PM, biomystic wrote:
At 1/15/2014 11:12:10 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 1/15/2014 1:35:55 PM, CynicalDiogenes wrote:
I want a discussion of what you believe the afterlife will be like,why you believe it to be correct, and what your religion or tradition describes it as.

We're already in Heaven but if you're patient enough, I can describe to you how we'll be experiencing life in Paradise, the new Earthly Kingdom after this world is destroyed.

No thanks. I've got grandchildren who enjoy this world and they will have children and so forth. You want to rob them of their future which is another indication why you are a false prophet and spreading lies about God who you know not, only some Shadow that's got you transvexed spiritually.

Everything you see are only illusions that come from our invisible created existence as God's thoughts. Whatever happens in the future is in God so you have nothing to worry about.


I'm calling you out. You stole your entire philosophy from David Icke

I didn't last long in David Icke's forum. They hated the Truth.
LAZARUS77
Posts: 109
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1/16/2014 8:54:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/15/2014 11:39:22 PM, biomystic wrote:
Lazarus, Muhammad's Islam doesn't withstand historical or logical or spiritual consistency. Muhammad's ideas cannot be trusted because he too was another Gentile trying to steal Jewish religious ideas and failing to understand them in the process. And now, God has demolished all Abrahamic religious foundation by Israeil archeologists unable to find any traces of the Hebrews who wrote the Bible (Torah/Tanakh) before 700 B.C.

Do you understand what this means? It means all those stories of earlier Hebrews/Israelites are fabrications, Jewish myths of origin that never happened. Which is why archeologists in the Holy Land cannot find any archeological traces of the major Bible events and personages. Muhammad took Jewish myths of origin as real history. Neither Allah or Gabriel informed Muhammad of this historical fact and now since it has become revealed it makes all of Muhammad's ideas in the Quran only Muhammad's ideas, i.e. there is no spiritual authority there because there is not spiritual authority in the Bible stories Muhammad bases his spiritual authority upon. No Abraham, no Moses. No spiritual authority. It cannot be derived from lies and liars.

Muhammad's Islam is heading for its End Times along with Judaism and Pauline Christianity as all three are dependent on people believing the Bible stories are real history of the Jewish people.

Luckily, a New Islam is coming! God loves the original idea of surrendering one's life to God but not just Something all powerful, but something Good. The Source of Peace, Salaam. I have surrendered my life to God as Peace for example. It will be Muslim women who forge the New Islam, btw, as Muslim men must now show repentance for all the centuries of physical and psychological abuse of women done in the name of Allah. Muslim women will remake Islam into something very Good. My prophesy.

Also, Paxcalibur, the Holy Land's newest and most spiritual powerful religious icon, is recognized now by Muslims who have seen it as the True Sword of Jihad, the Sword of Peace, the New Word of God that needs no human language to convey exactly what God wants of us now.

HO really? he stole jewish myths? where do you get your information from the same the haters of islam.. read other books.. the quran actually corrects the bible where its got wrong. this stupid ideas that he stole things from other sources is ridiculous. he had to know aremic hebrow greek and many more this srupid argument are refuted by many. here one thing why he didnt steal:
in the story of yusuf (joeseph) the word "King" is appearing not "Pharaoh". when the quran talks about Moses its using the word "Pharaoh" not "King". you know why? in the time of Joseph they called them "KINGS" instead of Pharaoh. the rulers of Egypt were called Pharaohs only in the New Kingdom period which was the time of Moses. now go to the Bible its using the word "Pharaoh" for ABRAHEM MOSES AND JOSEOPH AND ITS INCORRECT! the rulers of Egypt were called Pharaohs only in the New Kingdom period! Bible is wrong dude.
No man is a true believer unless he desires for his brother that, what he desires for himself. - Prophet Muhammad saw
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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1/16/2014 9:03:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/16/2014 6:44:21 AM, biomystic wrote:
At 1/16/2014 4:15:54 AM, CynicalDiogenes wrote:
There are 2 verses that i find particularly interesting.

In Luke 17:21 Jesus says "the Kingdom of God is within you"

and in John he says "You are all Gods"

I personally don't think of the afterlife as a place with sensual pleasures as it is often portrayed, rather it is here and now, and is a state of complete union with God,the 'perfection of faith', that can be achieved in this lifetime.

I used to wander a lot as a teen, and I admit, that my exposure to Buddhism and Hinduism is what led me to this conclusion.

Even certain segments of the Catechism of the Catholic church, and the works of mystics such as the "Cloud of Unknowing" and 'City of God' seem to imply this.

If 'Bible alone christians are against this, please explain how those verses are understood by you.

If you are catholic, and disagree, please give me a link to encyclicals,decrees as well as decision of councils that show that my understanding are wrong.If you feel the catechism of the catholic church is against this view, please show me what the correct view is.

There is a Fatal Flaw in the Eastern idea of reality that wants to do away with personality and personal consciousness and replace it with an egoless oceanic union with the ALL. Western Christian mystic traditions go this route too and both are rejected by God Most High, the Canaanite/Jewish/Christian God, as being false pathways to true consciousness of God. One notes that the peoples following the Eastern religious pathways cannot feed or house their peoples adequately and now must use Western ways to catch up in social welfare for the people. If the Eastern religion cannot take care of its people does not that say something about it? Where Buddhism still rules, the people are backward, lacking democratic opportunity because of being still in the feudal age.

The Fatal Flaw? It was found by brain scientists studying Buddhist monks' brains while they were meditating. Found was a one to one correlation between what the monks themselves reported about their progress towards achieving the state of satori, short hand, "Buddha Mind", and their abilities to deactivate their brain's sense of self center located in the parietal region which gives us our sense of who and where we are in time and space. It appears that when this area of the brain is effectively tranquilized, shut down by intensive meditation techniques, and released electrical brain energy is shunted to the frontal lobes where higher cognition and bliss pleasure centers are located, it gives the person a sense of egolessness oceanic oneness with God as a Great ALL or without God at all, only ONENESS.

In short, this Eastern goal of higher "spiritual" consciousness rests upon quite severe brain manipulation, disabling a major brain area in order to achieve relief from psychic pain and get high. Drugs also are major brain manipulators and who thinks drugs are worthy of worship? Drug addicts. The reason one sees all those Buddha statues of Buddha lying down, sitting, sleeping, sleepy-eyed, never running, never active, is because when the brain's sense of self center is shut down it's not so easy to get up and navigate. Walking Buddha state takes another level of training. It's all Lotus Land brain trickery. Who needs it.

Celestial Torah Christianity. That's of God and won't let you down because salvation is of us Jews. This is the newest Testament arriving on time for the New Age.

The liars called Jews try convince everyone that salvation is from them but we saints know they are liars and only listen to what God's prophets wrote in what is known as prophecies. Liars don't understand the prophecies that came out of the prophets minds but sure do align themselves with these prophets, just like Christians did with us saints who also speak for our Creator.
LAZARUS77
Posts: 109
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1/16/2014 9:10:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/16/2014 7:47:03 AM, CynicalDiogenes wrote:
At 1/15/2014 5:31:26 PM, LAZARUS77 wrote:
i dont know much about another than christanity and islam. you'r christain so you must know your faith. here what islam says:

i will give few there are a lot.. first in Quran:
-"The description of Paradise which the Muttaqoon (God fearing) have been promised is that in it are rivers of water, the taste and smell of which are never changed. Rivers of milk the taste of which will remain unchanged. Rivers of wine that will be delicious to those who drink from it and rivers of clear, pure honey. For them will be every kind of fruit and forgiveness form their Lord." [ 47:15]

-"And their recompense shall be Paradise, and silken garments, because they were patient. Reclining on raised thrones, they will see there neither the excessive heat of the sun, nor the excessive bitter cold, (as in Paradise there is no sun and no moon). The shade will be close upon them, and bunches of fruit will hang low within their reach. Vessels of silver and cups of crystal will be passed around amongst them, crystal-clear, made of silver. They will determine the measure of them according to their wishes. They will be given a cup (of wine) mixed with Zanjabeel, and a fountain called Salsabeel. Around them will (serve) boys of perpetual youth. If you see them, you would think they are scattered pearls. When you look there (in Paradise) you will see a delight (that cannot be imagined), and a Great Dominion. Their garments will be of fine green silk and gold embroidery. They will be adorned with bracelets of silver, and their Lord will give them a pure drink." [76:12-21]

-They will be reclining, face to face, on thrones woven with gold and precious stones. They will be served by immortal boys, with cups and jugs, and a glass from the flowing wine, from which they will have neither any headache, nor any intoxication. They will have fruit from which they may choose, and the flesh of fowls that they desire. There will be Houris with wide, lovely eyes (as wives for the pious), like preserved pearls, a reward for deeds that they used to do. They will hear no vain or sinful speech (like backbiting, etc.) but only the saying of: Salam, Salam, (greetings of peace). And those on the Right Hand, who will be those on the Right Hand? They will be among thorn-less lote-trees among Talh (banana trees) with fruits piled one above another, in long-extended shade, by constantly flowing water, and fruit in plenty, whose season is not limited, and their supply will not be cut off. They will be on couches or thrones raised high. Verily, We have created for them (maidens) of equal age, loving (their husbands only). For those on the Right Hand." [56:10-38]

-"Verily, the dwellers of Paradise that Day, will be busy in joyful things. They and their wives will be in pleasant shade, reclining on thrones. They will have therein fruits (of all kinds), and all that they will ask for. (It will be said to them): "Salamun" (Peace be on you), a Word from the Lord, Most Merciful." [36:55-58]

-"So no soul knows the delights of the eyes which is hidden for them; a reward for what they did." [32:17]

"Allah has purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the Garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law (of Moses), the Gospel (of Jesus), and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain, which you have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." [9:111]

Hadiths (sayings of the prophet) describing Paradise:
-"Bricks of gold and silver, and mortar of fragrant musk, pebbles of pearl and sapphire, and soil of saffron. Whoever enters it is filled with joy and will never feel miserable; he will live there forever and never die; their clothes will never wear out and their youth will never fade."

-"Verily in Paradise there is a market in which (the inhabitants of Paradise) will come to every Friday. The North wind will blow and scatter fragrances on their faces and on their clothes. This will add to their beauty and their attractiveness. They will then go back to their families after having an added luster to their beauty and their attractiveness. Their families will say to them, 'By Allah you have been increased in beauty and loveliness after leaving us,' and they will say, 'By Allah you too have increased in beauty and attractiveness after us.'

-"A place in Paradise as small as the bow or lash of one of you is better than all the world and whatever is in it"

- "There is a tree in Paradise (which is so big and huge that) if a rider travels in its shade for one hundred years, he would not be able to cross it."

-"The inhabitants of Paradise are hairless, beardless and have black eyes, their youth does not pass away and their garments do not wear out."

-"Paradise has eight gates, and one of them is called Ar-Raiyan through which none will enter but those who observe fasting."

there are many more... anyway for more research - http://www.islamicislamic.com...

Thank you for sharing this view.However we seem to have some disagreements.While I have a lot of respect for Muslims, especially Sufis like Rumi,This description of the afterlife is one of the main reason that lead me to reject Islam as false.Are you sure that this teaching is authentic and accurate?

Religion should make people aware of the impermanence of sense pleasures.It should help people transcend them.(the other being the verse that "God does not love transgressors")Jesus who you claim is a prophet explicitly spoke out against hoarding sense pleasures.

True happiness comes from within.True wisdom comes from within.It is not based on how much milk,wine or food you eat, nor is it in the senses or in sex with 72 virgins.

If there were these things in heaven, people will automatically get bored if they are going to live with the same stuff for ever with nothing to do. It is pathetic to forgo pleasures in this life only to seek them in the next.

A more sensible way to about would be to be free from the bondage of senses, and to be disciplined enough to be content with less.

Dude you didnt read what i wrote there...
you worte "Religion should make people aware of the impermanence of sense pleasures". - according to the quran and hadiths its infinte and as time goes by your lust and pleasures are increasing thats is mercy from God. so what worng with it?? having sex eating enjoying for infinity and its only increasing not decreasing! what you will do in heaven ?? as the christains say they will walk with God for eternity... what a boring times it will be.. humans arespiritual and physical you need this two. now that is wisdom dont walking for eternity as boring it will be...

you said "Jesus who you claim is a prophet explicitly spoke out against hoarding sense pleasures." - are you joking? this is wordly life. islam has many more limitaions that leading to patience,steadfasting etc/... its faiths and works with legislations. not like christainty its not practical all at! its just faith and you have salvation. without work that make sense to you?? please learn islam first with openmind.....
No man is a true believer unless he desires for his brother that, what he desires for himself. - Prophet Muhammad saw
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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1/16/2014 9:30:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/16/2014 9:10:16 AM, LAZARUS77 wrote:
At 1/16/2014 7:47:03 AM, CynicalDiogenes wrote:
At 1/15/2014 5:31:26 PM, LAZARUS77 wrote:
i dont know much about another than christanity and islam. you'r christain so you must know your faith. here what islam says:

i will give few there are a lot.. first in Quran:
-"The description of Paradise which the Muttaqoon (God fearing) have been promised is that in it are rivers of water, the taste and smell of which are never changed. Rivers of milk the taste of which will remain unchanged. Rivers of wine that will be delicious to those who drink from it and rivers of clear, pure honey. For them will be every kind of fruit and forgiveness form their Lord." [ 47:15]

-"And their recompense shall be Paradise, and silken garments, because they were patient. Reclining on raised thrones, they will see there neither the excessive heat of the sun, nor the excessive bitter cold, (as in Paradise there is no sun and no moon). The shade will be close upon them, and bunches of fruit will hang low within their reach. Vessels of silver and cups of crystal will be passed around amongst them, crystal-clear, made of silver. They will determine the measure of them according to their wishes. They will be given a cup (of wine) mixed with Zanjabeel, and a fountain called Salsabeel. Around them will (serve) boys of perpetual youth. If you see them, you would think they are scattered pearls. When you look there (in Paradise) you will see a delight (that cannot be imagined), and a Great Dominion. Their garments will be of fine green silk and gold embroidery. They will be adorned with bracelets of silver, and their Lord will give them a pure drink." [76:12-21]

-They will be reclining, face to face, on thrones woven with gold and precious stones. They will be served by immortal boys, with cups and jugs, and a glass from the flowing wine, from which they will have neither any headache, nor any intoxication. They will have fruit from which they may choose, and the flesh of fowls that they desire. There will be Houris with wide, lovely eyes (as wives for the pious), like preserved pearls, a reward for deeds that they used to do. They will hear no vain or sinful speech (like backbiting, etc.) but only the saying of: Salam, Salam, (greetings of peace). And those on the Right Hand, who will be those on the Right Hand? They will be among thorn-less lote-trees among Talh (banana trees) with fruits piled one above another, in long-extended shade, by constantly flowing water, and fruit in plenty, whose season is not limited, and their supply will not be cut off. They will be on couches or thrones raised high. Verily, We have created for them (maidens) of equal age, loving (their husbands only). For those on the Right Hand." [56:10-38]

-"Verily, the dwellers of Paradise that Day, will be busy in joyful things. They and their wives will be in pleasant shade, reclining on thrones. They will have therein fruits (of all kinds), and all that they will ask for. (It will be said to them): "Salamun" (Peace be on you), a Word from the Lord, Most Merciful." [36:55-58]

-"So no soul knows the delights of the eyes which is hidden for them; a reward for what they did." [32:17]

"Allah has purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the Garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law (of Moses), the Gospel (of Jesus), and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain, which you have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." [9:111]

Hadiths (sayings of the prophet) describing Paradise:
-"Bricks of gold and silver, and mortar of fragrant musk, pebbles of pearl and sapphire, and soil of saffron. Whoever enters it is filled with joy and will never feel miserable; he will live there forever and never die; their clothes will never wear out and their youth will never fade."

-"Verily in Paradise there is a market in which (the inhabitants of Paradise) will come to every Friday. The North wind will blow and scatter fragrances on their faces and on their clothes. This will add to their beauty and their attractiveness. They will then go back to their families after having an added luster to their beauty and their attractiveness. Their families will say to them, 'By Allah you have been increased in beauty and loveliness after leaving us,' and they will say, 'By Allah you too have increased in beauty and attractiveness after us.'

-"A place in Paradise as small as the bow or lash of one of you is better than all the world and whatever is in it"

- "There is a tree in Paradise (which is so big and huge that) if a rider travels in its shade for one hundred years, he would not be able to cross it."

-"The inhabitants of Paradise are hairless, beardless and have black eyes, their youth does not pass away and their garments do not wear out."

-"Paradise has eight gates, and one of them is called Ar-Raiyan through which none will enter but those who observe fasting."

there are many more... anyway for more research - http://www.islamicislamic.com...

Thank you for sharing this view.However we seem to have some disagreements.While I have a lot of respect for Muslims, especially Sufis like Rumi,This description of the afterlife is one of the main reason that lead me to reject Islam as false.Are you sure that this teaching is authentic and accurate?

Religion should make people aware of the impermanence of sense pleasures.It should help people transcend them.(the other being the verse that "God does not love transgressors")Jesus who you claim is a prophet explicitly spoke out against hoarding sense pleasures.

True happiness comes from within.True wisdom comes from within.It is not based on how much milk,wine or food you eat, nor is it in the senses or in sex with 72 virgins.

If there were these things in heaven, people will automatically get bored if they are going to live with the same stuff for ever with nothing to do. It is pathetic to forgo pleasures in this life only to seek them in the next.

A more sensible way to about would be to be free from the bondage of senses, and to be disciplined enough to be content with less.

Dude you didnt read what i wrote there...
you worte "Religion should make people aware of the impermanence of sense pleasures". - according to the quran and hadiths its infinte and as time goes by your lust and pleasures are increasing thats is mercy from God. so what worng with it?? having sex eating enjoying for infinity and its only increasing not decreasing! what you will do in heaven ?? as the christains say they will walk with God for eternity... what a boring times it will be.. humans arespiritual and physical you need this two. now that is wisdom dont walking for eternity as boring it will be...

you said "Jesus who you claim is a prophet explicitly spoke out against hoarding sense pleasures." - are you joking? this is wordly life. islam has many more limitaions that leading to patience,steadfasting etc/... its faiths and works with legislations. not like christainty its not practical all at! its just faith and you have salvation. without work that make sense to you?? please learn islam first with openmind.....

Religion defined as (for men)
Don't drink don't screw around cos you'll have more than you can handle in heaven.
How stupid do you have to be to believe that.

Religion defined as (for women)
Don't drink or screw around just look after a man.
Cos in heaven you get to do exactly the same sh!t.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
LAZARUS77
Posts: 109
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1/16/2014 9:50:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/16/2014 9:30:40 AM, bulproof wrote:

Religion defined as (for men)
Don't drink don't screw around cos you'll have more than you can handle in heaven.
How stupid do you have to be to believe that.

Religion defined as (for women)
Don't drink or screw around just look after a man.
Cos in heaven you get to do exactly the same sh!t.

we are so stupid that only we allowed to look at our wive or husband and not cheating on his/her back... we are stupid that we can not gossiping, steal, abuse cheat , talking or foul language, hypocrisy ... its teachs us to respect and honor your guests, to be fair as the quran says :
O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah , even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allah is more worthy of both. So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.

atleast we have do to good even if we dont want to and good for this world and for the afterlife there are a reward atleast we have to follow laws unlike christainity only faith... so yeah we are soo stupid......
No man is a true believer unless he desires for his brother that, what he desires for himself. - Prophet Muhammad saw
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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1/16/2014 9:55:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/16/2014 9:50:46 AM, LAZARUS77 wrote:
At 1/16/2014 9:30:40 AM, bulproof wrote:

Religion defined as (for men)
Don't drink don't screw around cos you'll have more than you can handle in heaven.
How stupid do you have to be to believe that.

Religion defined as (for women)
Don't drink or screw around just look after a man.
Cos in heaven you get to do exactly the same sh!t.

we are so stupid that only we allowed to look at our wive or husband and not cheating on his/her back... we are stupid that we can not gossiping, steal, abuse cheat , talking or foul language, hypocrisy ... its teachs us to respect and honor your guests, to be fair as the quran says :
O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah , even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allah is more worthy of both. So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.

atleast we have do to good even if we dont want to and good for this world and for the afterlife there are a reward atleast we have to follow laws unlike christainity only faith... so yeah we are soo stupid......

They simply don't understand the absurdity of their beliefs and then spout nonsensical gibberish from a book that means nothing to a person who thinks.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Mysterious_Stranger
Posts: 1,562
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1/16/2014 10:22:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The afterlife is non existent, we will eventually finish our journey to the grave and cease to exist. We will evaporate into the nothingness then we will be forgotten.
Turn around, go back.
CynicalDiogenes
Posts: 147
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1/16/2014 10:40:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/16/2014 9:10:16 AM, LAZARUS77 wrote:
At 1/16/2014 7:47:03 AM, CynicalDiogenes wrote:
At 1/15/2014 5:31:26 PM, LAZARUS77 wrote:
i dont know much about another than christanity and islam. you'r christain so you must know your faith. here what islam says:

i will give few there are a lo

Quran:
-"The description of Paradise which the Muttaqoon (God fearing) have been promised is that in it are rivers of water, the taste and smell of which are never changed. Rivers of milk the taste of which will remain unchanged. Rivers of wine that will be delicious to those who drink from it and rivers of clear, pure honey. For them will be every kind of fruit and forgiveness form their Lord." [ 47:15]

-"And their recompense shall be Paradise, and silken garments, because they were patient. Reclining on raised thrones, they will see there neither the excessive heat of the sun, nor the excessive bitter cold, (as in Paradise there is no sun and no moon). The shade will be close upon them, and bunches of fruit will hang low within their reach. Vessels of silver and cups of crystal will be passed around amongst them, crystal-clear, made of silver. They will determine the measure of them according to their wishes. They will be given a cup (of wine) mixed with Zanjabeel, and a fountain called Salsabeel. Around them will (serve) boys of perpetual youth. If you see them, you would think they are scattered pearls. When you look there (in Paradise) you will see a delight (that cannot be imagined), and a Great Dominion. Their garments will be of fine green silk and gold embroidery. They will be adorned with bracelets of silver, and their Lord will give them a pure drink." [76:12-21]

-They will be reclining, face to face, on thrones woven with gold and precious stones. They will be served by immortal boys, with cups and jugs, and a glass from the flowing wine, from which they will have neither any headache, nor any intoxication. They will have fruit from which they may choose, and the flesh of fowls that they desire. There will be Houris with wide, lovely eyes (as wives for the pious), like preserved pearls, a reward for deeds that they used to do. They will hear no vain or sinful speech (like backbiting, etc.) but only the saying of: Salam, Salam, (greetings of peace). And those on the Right Hand, who will be those on the Right Hand? They will be among thorn-less lote-trees among Talh (banana trees) with fruits piled one above another, in long-extended shade, by constantly flowing water, and fruit in plenty, whose season is not limited, and their supply will not be cut off. They will be on couches or thrones raised high. Verily, We have created for them (maidens) of equal age, loving (their husbands only). For those on the Right Hand." [56:10-38]

-"Verily, the dwellers of Paradise that Day, will be busy in joyful things. They and their wives will be in pleasant shade, reclining on thrones. They will have therein fruits (of all kinds), and all that they will ask for. (It will be said to them): "Salamun" (Peace be on you), a Word from the Lord, Most Merciful." [36:55-58]

-"So no soul knows the delights of the eyes which is hidden for them; a reward for what they did." [32:17]

"Allah has purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the Garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law (of Moses), the Gospel (of Jesus), and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain, which you have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." [9:111]

Hadiths (sayings of the prophet) describing Paradise:
-"Bricks of gold and silver, and mortar of fragrant musk, pebbles of pearl and sapphire, and soil of saffron. Whoever enters it is filled with joy and will never feel miserable; he will live there forever and never die; their clothes will never wear out and their youth will never fade."

-"Verily in Paradise there is a market in which (the inhabitants of Paradise) will come to every Friday. The North wind will blow and scatter fragrances on their faces and on their clothes. This will add to their beauty and their attractiveness. They will then go back to their families after having an added luster to their beauty and their attractiveness. Their families will say to them, 'By Allah you have been increased in beauty and loveliness after leaving us,' and they will say, g."

there are many more... anyway for more research - http://www.islamicislamic.com...

Thank you for sharing this view.However we seem to have some disagreements.While I have a lot of respect for Muslims, especially Sufis like Rumi,This description of the afterlife is one of the main reason that lead me to reject Islam as false.Are you sure that this teaching is authentic and accurate?

Religion should make people aware of the impermanence of sense pleasures.It should help people transcend them.(the other being the verse that "God does not love transgressors")Jesus who you claim is a prophet explicitly spoke out against hoarding sense pleasures.

True happiness comes from within.True wisdom comes from within.It is not based on how much milk,wine or food you eat, nor is it in the senses or in sex with 72 virgins.

If there were these things in heaven, people will automatically get bored if they are going to live with the same stuff for ever with nothing to do. It is pathetic to forgo pleasures in this life only to seek them in the next.

A more sensible way to about would be to be free from the bondage of senses, and to be disciplined enough to be content with less.

Dude you didnt read what i wrote there...
you worte "Religion should make people aware of the impermanence of sense pleasures". - according to the quran and hadiths its infinte and as time goes by your lust and pleasures are increasing thats is mercy from God. so what worng with it?? having sex eating enjoying for infinity and its only increasing not decreasing! what you will do in heaven ?? as the christains say they will walk with God for eternity... what a boring t
you said "Jesus who you claim is a prophet explicitly spoke out against hoarding sense pleasures." - are you joking? this is wordly life. islam has many more limitaions that leading to patience,steadfasting etc/... its faiths and works with legislations. not like christainty its not practical all at! its just faith and you have salvation. without work that make sense to you?? please learn islam first with openmind.....

What makes you so sure that I have not read about islam with an open mind?
I lived in Oman and later Sharjah for 14 years . Much of my schooling was done in these countries.

the difference is that you cannot read christianity and other religions with an open mind because murtads who find that other path are better will be stoned to death according to Islam.

Senses and animal desires can be overcome.They are all illusions that offer only fleeting temporary happiness. You must learn to outgrow your need for them and to base yiur source of happiness out of them.

If you think that sense pleasures with orgies, unlimited food and drink is what people should really aspire for, they why can't we try and achieve this on earth here itself like atheists?

I already know that heaven is not of that sort.there are hundreds of christian saints who realised this early on itself.

The kingdom of God is within you, don't waste time with fools who tell you you will reach it only after you die.
Seat of Wisdom, pray for us who turn to you!

Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.-St.Thomas Aquinas
All the darkness in the world cannot extinguish the light of a single candle.~ St.Francis of Assisi
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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1/16/2014 10:49:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/16/2014 10:22:18 AM, Mysterious_Stranger wrote:
The afterlife is non existent, we will eventually finish our journey to the grave and cease to exist. We will evaporate into the nothingness then we will be forgotten.

You're kind of right but that's because we won't remember anything that happened in this age.

Isaiah 65
16: So that he who blesses himself in the land shall bless himself by the God of truth, and he who takes an oath in the land shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten and are hid from my eyes.
17: "For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; and the former things shall not be remembered or come into mind.
18: But be glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create; for behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19: I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and be glad in my people; no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping and the cry of distress.
CynicalDiogenes
Posts: 147
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1/16/2014 10:50:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/16/2014 9:30:40 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 1/16/2014 9:10:16 AM, LAZARUS77 wrote:
At 1/16/2014 7:47:03 AM, CynicalDiogenes wrote:
At 1/15/2014 5:31:26 PM, LAZARUS77 wrote:


i ar, pure honey. For them will be every kind of fruit and forgiveness form their Lord." [ 47:15]

-They will be reclining, face to face, on thrones woven with gold and precious stones. They will be served by immortal boys, with cups and jugs, and a glass from the flowing wine, from which they will have neither any headache, nor any intoxication. They will have fruit from which they may choose, and the flesh of fowls that they desire. There will be Houris with wide, lovely eyes (as wives for the pious), like preserved pearls, a reward for deeds that they used to do. They will hear no vain or sinful speech (like backbiting, etc.) but only the saying of: Salam, Salam, (greetings of peace). And those on the Right Hand, who will be those on the Right Hand? They will be among thorn-less lote-trees among Talh (banana trees) with fruits piled one above another, in long-extended shade, by constantly flowing water, and fruit in plenty, whose season is not limited, and their supply will not be cut off. They will be on couches or thrones raised high. Verily, We have created for them (maidens) of equal age, loving (their husbands only). For those on the Right Hand." [56:10-38]

-"Verily, the dwellers of Paradise that Day, will be busy in joyful things. They and their wives will be in pleasant shade, reclining on thrones. They will have therein fruits (of all kinds), and all that they will ask for. (It will be said to them): "Salamun" (Peace be on you), a Word from the Lord, Most Merciful." [36:55-58]

-"So no soul knows the delights of the eyes which is hidden for them; a reward for what they did." [32:17]

"Allah has purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the Garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law (of Moses), the Gospel (of Jesus), and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain, which you have concluded: that is the achievement supreme." [9:111]

Hadiths (sayings of the prophet) describing Paradise:
-"Bricks of gold and silver, and mortar of fragrant musk, pebbles of pearl and sapphire, and soil of saffron. Whoever enters it is filled with joy and will never feel miserable; he will live there forever and never die; their clothes will never wear out and their youth will never fade."

-"Verily in Paradise there is a market in which (the inhabitants of Paradise) will come to every Friday. The North wind will blow and scatter fragrances on their faces and on their clothes. This will add to their beauty and their attractiveness. They will then go back to their families after having an added luster to their beauty and their attractiveness. Their families will say to them, 'By Allah you have been increased in beauty and loveliness after leaving us,' and they will say, 'By Allah you too have increased in beauty and attractiveness after us.'

-"A place in Paradise as small as the bow or lash of one of you is better than all the world and whatever is in it"

- "There is a tree in Paradise (which is so big and huge that) if a rider travels in its shade for one hundred years, he would not be able to cross it."

-"The inhabitants of Paradise are hairless, beardless and have black eyes, their youth does not pass away and their garments do not wear out."

-"Paradise has eight gates, and one of them is called Ar-Raiyan through which none will enter but those who observe fasting."

there are many more... anyway for more research - http://www.islamicislamic.com...

Thank you for sharing this view.However we seem to have some disagreements.While I have a lot of respect for Muslims, especially Sufis like Rumi,This description of the afterlife is one of the main reason that lead me to reject Islam as false.Are you sure that this teaching is authentic and accurate?

Religion should make people aware of the impermanence of sense pleasures.It should help people transcend them.(the other being the verse that "God does not love transgressors")Jesus who you claim is a prophet explicitly spoke out against hoarding sense pleasures.

True happiness comes from within.True wisdom comes from within.It is not based on how much milk,wine or food you eat, nor is it in the senses or in sex with 72 virgins.

If there were these things in heaven, people will automatically get bored if they are going to live with the same stuff for ever with nothing to do. It is pathetic to forgo pleasures in this life only to seek them in the next.

A more sensible way to about would be to be free from the bondage of senses, and to be disciplined enough to be content with less.

Dude you didnt read what i wrote there...
you worte "Religion should make people aware of the impermanence of sense pleasures". - according to the quran and hadiths its infinte and as time goes by your lust and pleasures are increasing thats is mercy from God. so what worng with it?? having sex eating enjoying for infinity and its only increasing not decreasing! what you will do in heaven ?? as the christains say they will walk with God for eternity... what a boring times it will be.. humans arespiritual and physical you need this two. now that is wisdom dont walking for eternity as boring it will be...

you said "Jesus who you claim is a prophet explicitly spoke out against hoarding sense pleasures." - are you joking? this is wordly life. islam has many more limitaions that leading to patience,steadfasting etc/... its faiths and works with legislations. not like christainty its not practical all at! its just faith and you have salvation. without work that make sense to you?? please learn islam first with openmind.....

Religion defined as (for men)
Don't drink don't screw around cos you'll have more than you can handle in heaven.
How stupid do you have to be to believe that.

Religion defined as (for women)
Don't drink or screw around just look after a man.

THIS is not true of most religions.I can prove that religions across the world have defined it the way I have.
Seat of Wisdom, pray for us who turn to you!

Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.-St.Thomas Aquinas
All the darkness in the world cannot extinguish the light of a single candle.~ St.Francis of Assisi