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Calling devout educated catholics only

CynicalDiogenes
Posts: 147
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1/16/2014 7:53:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
'Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit

As it was in the Beginning, it is now and ever shall be, the world without end'

What exactly is this talking about?What is the origin of this prayer?

There is a viewpoint among many mystics from diverse cultures that time itself is an illusion.Does the last line seem to imply this?
Seat of Wisdom, pray for us who turn to you!

Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.-St.Thomas Aquinas
All the darkness in the world cannot extinguish the light of a single candle.~ St.Francis of Assisi
dadman
Posts: 272
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1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed
And he (God) gave some apostles .. and some prophets .. and some evangelists .. and some teaching pastors .. for the perfecting of the saints .. for the work of the ministry .. for the edifying of the body of Christ .. till we all come in the unity of the faith .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God .. to a perfect (complete) man .. to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . . Ephesians 4:12 .. http://dadmansabode.com... .. come and learn
Ramshutu
Posts: 4,063
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1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.
dadman
Posts: 272
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1/17/2014 3:36:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
and that is what ..........
And he (God) gave some apostles .. and some prophets .. and some evangelists .. and some teaching pastors .. for the perfecting of the saints .. for the work of the ministry .. for the edifying of the body of Christ .. till we all come in the unity of the faith .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God .. to a perfect (complete) man .. to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . . Ephesians 4:12 .. http://dadmansabode.com... .. come and learn
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
srehtiw
Posts: 491
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1/17/2014 4:39:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Catch up. There's a new pope and times are a'changing. New pope is a lot more down to earth than the last few. He lives in a significantly let posh hotel room, instead of the proper Vatican accommodations. Plus he doesn't really have billions of dollars to call upon. The Vatican doesn't actually have much hard cash, instead it just has priceless artwork which is significantly harder to food to starving people. Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made. In the history of the catholic church, there have been 2 infallible statements made, and both referred to Mary. By the way which freedoms which people have given their lives for are you referring to?
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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1/17/2014 4:46:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 4:39:51 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Catch up. There's a new pope and times are a'changing. New pope is a lot more down to earth than the last few. He lives in a significantly let posh hotel room, instead of the proper Vatican accommodations. Plus he doesn't really have billions of dollars to call upon. The Vatican doesn't actually have much hard cash, instead it just has priceless artwork which is significantly harder to food to starving people. Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made. In the history of the catholic church, there have been 2 infallible statements made, and both referred to Mary. By the way which freedoms which people have given their lives for are you referring to?

Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Freedom to assemble
Freedom of access to a certain level of free public education

The Roman Catholic Church is on record as opposing every one of those freedoms as they are commonly and normally defined.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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1/17/2014 4:49:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
" Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made."

Yeah, they have ... lots of them. All he'd have to do is say, "We rescind any prior positions on (state the subject), and this is our position now: (state position)."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
srehtiw
Posts: 491
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1/17/2014 4:52:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 4:46:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:39:51 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Catch up. There's a new pope and times are a'changing. New pope is a lot more down to earth than the last few. He lives in a significantly let posh hotel room, instead of the proper Vatican accommodations. Plus he doesn't really have billions of dollars to call upon. The Vatican doesn't actually have much hard cash, instead it just has priceless artwork which is significantly harder to food to starving people. Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made. In the history of the catholic church, there have been 2 infallible statements made, and both referred to Mary. By the way which freedoms which people have given their lives for are you referring to?

Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Freedom to assemble
Freedom of access to a certain level of free public education

The Roman Catholic Church is on record as opposing every one of those freedoms as they are commonly and normally defined.

Interesting. I'm going to have to put some research into this. But anyway, the pope is not always counted as infallible, he is only infallible when he is giving a ex cathedra statement, and since the concept was created in 1871 two have been made, one regarding Mary's immaculate conception and the other regarding her assumption into heaven. So he doesn't really need to rescind any statement on these freedoms as no ex cathedra statements have been made regarding them.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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1/17/2014 4:56:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 4:52:32 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:46:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:39:51 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Catch up. There's a new pope and times are a'changing. New pope is a lot more down to earth than the last few. He lives in a significantly let posh hotel room, instead of the proper Vatican accommodations. Plus he doesn't really have billions of dollars to call upon. The Vatican doesn't actually have much hard cash, instead it just has priceless artwork which is significantly harder to food to starving people. Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made. In the history of the catholic church, there have been 2 infallible statements made, and both referred to Mary. By the way which freedoms which people have given their lives for are you referring to?

Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Freedom to assemble
Freedom of access to a certain level of free public education

The Roman Catholic Church is on record as opposing every one of those freedoms as they are commonly and normally defined.

Interesting. I'm going to have to put some research into this. But anyway, the pope is not always counted as infallible, he is only infallible when he is giving a ex cathedra statement, and since the concept was created in 1871 two have been made, one regarding Mary's immaculate conception and the other regarding her assumption into heaven. So he doesn't really need to rescind any statement on these freedoms as no ex cathedra statements have been made regarding them.

I didn't say a word about any imaginary "ex cathedra" statements. You did. I said that the Roman Catholic Church has repeatedly, repeatedly condemned the "four freedoms" - and on top of that, it has repeatedly opposed free public education for all. I have seen dozens upon dozens of statements to this effect - and not once have I seen a statement saying, "We made some mistakes on that. We want to fix that."

My statement was: they can't say such a thing. To do so would totally alter Catholicism, or undo it.

Read the infamous Syllabus of Errors.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
srehtiw
Posts: 491
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1/17/2014 5:06:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 4:56:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:52:32 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:46:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:39:51 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Catch up. There's a new pope and times are a'changing. New pope is a lot more down to earth than the last few. He lives in a significantly let posh hotel room, instead of the proper Vatican accommodations. Plus he doesn't really have billions of dollars to call upon. The Vatican doesn't actually have much hard cash, instead it just has priceless artwork which is significantly harder to food to starving people. Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made. In the history of the catholic church, there have been 2 infallible statements made, and both referred to Mary. By the way which freedoms which people have given their lives for are you referring to?

Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Freedom to assemble
Freedom of access to a certain level of free public education

The Roman Catholic Church is on record as opposing every one of those freedoms as they are commonly and normally defined.

Interesting. I'm going to have to put some research into this. But anyway, the pope is not always counted as infallible, he is only infallible when he is giving a ex cathedra statement, and since the concept was created in 1871 two have been made, one regarding Mary's immaculate conception and the other regarding her assumption into heaven. So he doesn't really need to rescind any statement on these freedoms as no ex cathedra statements have been made regarding them.

I didn't say a word about any imaginary "ex cathedra" statements. You did. I said that the Roman Catholic Church has repeatedly, repeatedly condemned the "four freedoms" - and on top of that, it has repeatedly opposed free public education for all. I have seen dozens upon dozens of statements to this effect - and not once have I seen a statement saying, "We made some mistakes on that. We want to fix that."

My statement was: they can't say such a thing. To do so would totally alter Catholicism, or undo it.

Read the infamous Syllabus of Errors.

Not really. You'd be surprised how much change a religion can take. While not declared as dogma the big bang theory was basically accepted by the church back in the 50s and evolution was accepted as fact by John Paul II in the 90s. Don't make broad statements about what the church can do.
dadman
Posts: 272
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1/17/2014 5:14:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
there is no such thing as a biblical pope . . . the Church is built on Jesus (PETRA) Corner Stone .. not Peter (Petros) little stone . . . Jesus and the confession Peter made of him .. "thou art the Christ .. the Son of the living God" http://dadmansabode.com...
. . . the RCC is a perverted offshoot of Christianity from its inception .. in the end of days .. we'll have the Bride and the Harlot (Rev 17) running side by side . . I believe this pope could be the second beast of Rev 13 . . . http://dadmansabode.com...
And he (God) gave some apostles .. and some prophets .. and some evangelists .. and some teaching pastors .. for the perfecting of the saints .. for the work of the ministry .. for the edifying of the body of Christ .. till we all come in the unity of the faith .. and of the knowledge of the Son of God .. to a perfect (complete) man .. to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . . . Ephesians 4:12 .. http://dadmansabode.com... .. come and learn
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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1/17/2014 5:20:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 5:06:50 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:56:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:52:32 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:46:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:39:51 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Catch up. There's a new pope and times are a'changing. New pope is a lot more down to earth than the last few. He lives in a significantly let posh hotel room, instead of the proper Vatican accommodations. Plus he doesn't really have billions of dollars to call upon. The Vatican doesn't actually have much hard cash, instead it just has priceless artwork which is significantly harder to food to starving people. Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made. In the history of the catholic church, there have been 2 infallible statements made, and both referred to Mary. By the way which freedoms which people have given their lives for are you referring to?

Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Freedom to assemble
Freedom of access to a certain level of free public education

The Roman Catholic Church is on record as opposing every one of those freedoms as they are commonly and normally defined.

Interesting. I'm going to have to put some research into this. But anyway, the pope is not always counted as infallible, he is only infallible when he is giving a ex cathedra statement, and since the concept was created in 1871 two have been made, one regarding Mary's immaculate conception and the other regarding her assumption into heaven. So he doesn't really need to rescind any statement on these freedoms as no ex cathedra statements have been made regarding them.

I didn't say a word about any imaginary "ex cathedra" statements. You did. I said that the Roman Catholic Church has repeatedly, repeatedly condemned the "four freedoms" - and on top of that, it has repeatedly opposed free public education for all. I have seen dozens upon dozens of statements to this effect - and not once have I seen a statement saying, "We made some mistakes on that. We want to fix that."

My statement was: they can't say such a thing. To do so would totally alter Catholicism, or undo it.

Read the infamous Syllabus of Errors.

Not really. You'd be surprised how much change a religion can take. While not declared as dogma the big bang theory was basically accepted by the church back in the 50s and evolution was accepted as fact by John Paul II in the 90s. Don't make broad statements about what the church can do.

How do we know when the pope is making an ex cathedra statement as opposed to making one that really doesn't count? You've said there were only two ex cathedra statements? How do you know that?

I'm just curious. You can't take his word for it. You can't look to the Bible for an explanation, for there was no such thing back then. So how do you know?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
srehtiw
Posts: 491
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1/17/2014 5:25:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 5:20:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:06:50 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:56:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:52:32 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:46:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:39:51 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Catch up. There's a new pope and times are a'changing. New pope is a lot more down to earth than the last few. He lives in a significantly let posh hotel room, instead of the proper Vatican accommodations. Plus he doesn't really have billions of dollars to call upon. The Vatican doesn't actually have much hard cash, instead it just has priceless artwork which is significantly harder to food to starving people. Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made. In the history of the catholic church, there have been 2 infallible statements made, and both referred to Mary. By the way which freedoms which people have given their lives for are you referring to?

Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Freedom to assemble
Freedom of access to a certain level of free public education

The Roman Catholic Church is on record as opposing every one of those freedoms as they are commonly and normally defined.

Interesting. I'm going to have to put some research into this. But anyway, the pope is not always counted as infallible, he is only infallible when he is giving a ex cathedra statement, and since the concept was created in 1871 two have been made, one regarding Mary's immaculate conception and the other regarding her assumption into heaven. So he doesn't really need to rescind any statement on these freedoms as no ex cathedra statements have been made regarding them.

I didn't say a word about any imaginary "ex cathedra" statements. You did. I said that the Roman Catholic Church has repeatedly, repeatedly condemned the "four freedoms" - and on top of that, it has repeatedly opposed free public education for all. I have seen dozens upon dozens of statements to this effect - and not once have I seen a statement saying, "We made some mistakes on that. We want to fix that."

My statement was: they can't say such a thing. To do so would totally alter Catholicism, or undo it.

Read the infamous Syllabus of Errors.

Not really. You'd be surprised how much change a religion can take. While not declared as dogma the big bang theory was basically accepted by the church back in the 50s and evolution was accepted as fact by John Paul II in the 90s. Don't make broad statements about what the church can do.

How do we know when the pope is making an ex cathedra statement as opposed to making one that really doesn't count? You've said there were only two ex cathedra statements? How do you know that?

I'm just curious. You can't take his word for it. You can't look to the Bible for an explanation, for there was no such thing back then. So how do you know?

There are certain criteria that have to be meet for it to be ex cathedral. At the moment I am literally in bed typing this on my kindle, but I'll find what these criteria are and post them tomorrow.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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1/17/2014 5:26:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 5:06:50 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:56:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:52:32 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:46:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:39:51 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Catch up. There's a new pope and times are a'changing. New pope is a lot more down to earth than the last few. He lives in a significantly let posh hotel room, instead of the proper Vatican accommodations. Plus he doesn't really have billions of dollars to call upon. The Vatican doesn't actually have much hard cash, instead it just has priceless artwork which is significantly harder to food to starving people. Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made. In the history of the catholic church, there have been 2 infallible statements made, and both referred to Mary. By the way which freedoms which people have given their lives for are you referring to?

Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Freedom to assemble
Freedom of access to a certain level of free public education

The Roman Catholic Church is on record as opposing every one of those freedoms as they are commonly and normally defined.

Interesting. I'm going to have to put some research into this. But anyway, the pope is not always counted as infallible, he is only infallible when he is giving a ex cathedra statement, and since the concept was created in 1871 two have been made, one regarding Mary's immaculate conception and the other regarding her assumption into heaven. So he doesn't really need to rescind any statement on these freedoms as no ex cathedra statements have been made regarding them.

I didn't say a word about any imaginary "ex cathedra" statements. You did. I said that the Roman Catholic Church has repeatedly, repeatedly condemned the "four freedoms" - and on top of that, it has repeatedly opposed free public education for all. I have seen dozens upon dozens of statements to this effect - and not once have I seen a statement saying, "We made some mistakes on that. We want to fix that."

My statement was: they can't say such a thing. To do so would totally alter Catholicism, or undo it.

Read the infamous Syllabus of Errors.

Not really. You'd be surprised how much change a religion can take. While not declared as dogma the big bang theory was basically accepted by the church back in the 50s and evolution was accepted as fact by John Paul II in the 90s. Don't make broad statements about what the church can do.

Your position basically gives them license to teach any and every error in the world and never correct it. That's sorta like the WatchTower group who has made numerous false prophesies concerning world affairs.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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1/17/2014 5:27:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 5:25:23 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:20:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:06:50 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:56:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:52:32 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:46:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:39:51 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Catch up. There's a new pope and times are a'changing. New pope is a lot more down to earth than the last few. He lives in a significantly let posh hotel room, instead of the proper Vatican accommodations. Plus he doesn't really have billions of dollars to call upon. The Vatican doesn't actually have much hard cash, instead it just has priceless artwork which is significantly harder to food to starving people. Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made. In the history of the catholic church, there have been 2 infallible statements made, and both referred to Mary. By the way which freedoms which people have given their lives for are you referring to?

Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Freedom to assemble
Freedom of access to a certain level of free public education

The Roman Catholic Church is on record as opposing every one of those freedoms as they are commonly and normally defined.

Interesting. I'm going to have to put some research into this. But anyway, the pope is not always counted as infallible, he is only infallible when he is giving a ex cathedra statement, and since the concept was created in 1871 two have been made, one regarding Mary's immaculate conception and the other regarding her assumption into heaven. So he doesn't really need to rescind any statement on these freedoms as no ex cathedra statements have been made regarding them.

I didn't say a word about any imaginary "ex cathedra" statements. You did. I said that the Roman Catholic Church has repeatedly, repeatedly condemned the "four freedoms" - and on top of that, it has repeatedly opposed free public education for all. I have seen dozens upon dozens of statements to this effect - and not once have I seen a statement saying, "We made some mistakes on that. We want to fix that."

My statement was: they can't say such a thing. To do so would totally alter Catholicism, or undo it.

Read the infamous Syllabus of Errors.

Not really. You'd be surprised how much change a religion can take. While not declared as dogma the big bang theory was basically accepted by the church back in the 50s and evolution was accepted as fact by John Paul II in the 90s. Don't make broad statements about what the church can do.

How do we know when the pope is making an ex cathedra statement as opposed to making one that really doesn't count? You've said there were only two ex cathedra statements? How do you know that?

I'm just curious. You can't take his word for it. You can't look to the Bible for an explanation, for there was no such thing back then. So how do you know?

There are certain criteria that have to be meet for it to be ex cathedral. At the moment I am literally in bed typing this on my kindle, but I'll find what these criteria are and post them tomorrow.

OK, and please find out exactly who set these criteria. I think you'll discover that the Catholic Church set their own criteria. LOL!
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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1/17/2014 6:07:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 4:46:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:39:51 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Catch up. There's a new pope and times are a'changing. New pope is a lot more down to earth than the last few. He lives in a significantly let posh hotel room, instead of the proper Vatican accommodations. Plus he doesn't really have billions of dollars to call upon. The Vatican doesn't actually have much hard cash, instead it just has priceless artwork which is significantly harder to food to starving people. Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made. In the history of the catholic church, there have been 2 infallible statements made, and both referred to Mary. By the way which freedoms which people have given their lives for are you referring to?

Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Freedom to assemble
Freedom of access to a certain level of free public education

The Roman Catholic Church is on record as opposing every one of those freedoms as they are commonly and normally defined.

Various protestant churches/organizations have too haven't they?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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1/17/2014 9:26:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 6:07:29 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:46:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:39:51 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Catch up. There's a new pope and times are a'changing. New pope is a lot more down to earth than the last few. He lives in a significantly let posh hotel room, instead of the proper Vatican accommodations. Plus he doesn't really have billions of dollars to call upon. The Vatican doesn't actually have much hard cash, instead it just has priceless artwork which is significantly harder to food to starving people. Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made. In the history of the catholic church, there have been 2 infallible statements made, and both referred to Mary. By the way which freedoms which people have given their lives for are you referring to?

Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Freedom to assemble
Freedom of access to a certain level of free public education

The Roman Catholic Church is on record as opposing every one of those freedoms as they are commonly and normally defined.

Various protestant churches/organizations have too haven't they?

Not that I know of ... not in the same manner or to the same degree as the Roman Catholic church.

However, if it could be shown that one or more have, then they are just as wrong as the Catholic Church, perhaps even moreso, because the Catholic Church makes no secret of it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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1/17/2014 10:09:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 5:14:52 PM, dadman wrote:
there is no such thing as a biblical pope . . . the Church is built on Jesus (PETRA) Corner Stone .. not Peter (Petros) little stone . . . Jesus and the confession Peter made of him .. "thou art the Christ .. the Son of the living God" http://dadmansabode.com...
. . . the RCC is a perverted offshoot of Christianity from its inception .. in the end of days .. we'll have the Bride and the Harlot (Rev 17) running side by side . . I believe this pope could be the second beast of Rev 13 . . . http://dadmansabode.com...
So you are claiming that the Marcionites are the true christians since they canonized the first scripture and any canonization after that must be perverted, apostate and heretical.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
CynicalDiogenes
Posts: 147
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1/18/2014 11:29:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Isn't there a single devout educated catholic on DDO who visits these forums?

I think I should find some other place for posting these type of discussions.

I was looking for a forum where Catholics and Non-catholics could share their views on theology, and there would be some fruitful discussion, instead I am stuck with a bunch of trolls who have no clue what they are talking about........:(
Seat of Wisdom, pray for us who turn to you!

Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.-St.Thomas Aquinas
All the darkness in the world cannot extinguish the light of a single candle.~ St.Francis of Assisi
CynicalDiogenes
Posts: 147
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1/18/2014 12:00:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Of course!! by maintaining the line that the church has always followed for almost 2000 years,by continuing to condemn contraception,abortion and Homosexuality, even when several 'reformed' protestants are flip-flopping on this, by continuing to uphold tradition and authentic teachings of Christ,even when several people are clamoring for changes in many fronts.All the popes have infact 'maneuvered based on the political climate'.What a brilliant deduction!

One of the duties of the Pope was to represent Catholic interests to the Secular rulers and to promote the political interests of Catholics worldwide to ensure that they can follow their religion in peace without interference.

They have been doing this since the time of the Roman Empire, several of them were even beheaded and killed for this.Even under extreme political pressure, the Popes have always done their best to ensure that the teachings of the Church are not altered.

The fact that King Henry VIII was not allowed a divorce, in-spite of his status as a Monarch is one such example.

In contrast, we can see how several Protestant groups, have been consistently inconsistent in their beliefs, with several of them changing their stance on a wide variety of issues ranging from divorce to abortion and contraception to core beliefs about the nature of the Saints and the Blessed Virgin.

What is even more amazing is that this accusation is coming from a 'Non-denominational' christian whose very identity comes from the lack of any fixed set of traditional christian beliefs, on a forum that requests 'Devout educated Catholics Only' to answer a doubt regarding a Catholic prayer.

Keep It up Guys!!
Seat of Wisdom, pray for us who turn to you!

Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.-St.Thomas Aquinas
All the darkness in the world cannot extinguish the light of a single candle.~ St.Francis of Assisi
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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1/18/2014 12:21:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 12:00:57 PM, CynicalDiogenes wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Of course!! by maintaining the line that the church has always followed for almost 2000 years,by continuing to condemn contraception,abortion and Homosexuality, even when several 'reformed' protestants are flip-flopping on this, by continuing to uphold tradition and authentic teachings of Christ,even when several people are clamoring for changes in many fronts.All the popes have infact 'maneuvered based on the political climate'.What a brilliant deduction!

Certainly the Roman Catholic Church has a history of assessing the political climate. There is no flip-flop of the Bible on the subjects of contraception, abortion, and homosexuality. It says the same thing it said 1,940 years ago. It also says the same thing it's always said about everything else.

One of the duties of the Pope was to represent Catholic interests to the Secular rulers and to promote the political interests of Catholics worldwide to ensure that they can follow their religion in peace without interference.

Absolutely! And in doing so, one would think he would preach toleration and freedom of religion in predominantly Catholic countries. They certainly appeal to it when they are in the minority. It has not been very long since Catholic governments banned everything but Catholicism, however.

They have been doing this since the time of the Roman Empire, several of them were even beheaded and killed for this.Even under extreme political pressure, the Popes have always done their best to ensure that the teachings of the Church are not altered.

There were no popes in the sense of "universal bishop" during the time of the Roman Empire. You must be speaking of the bishop of Rome upon whom later was placed the title "universal papa" ... "supreme pontiff"... etc.

The fact that King Henry VIII was not allowed a divorce, in-spite of his status as a Monarch is one such example.

That's a perfect example of political maneuvering. Who was old Henry's wife at the time - and who was her family? I'd say American Royalty would be a better place to look: Francis Albert Sinatra. Twelve years of marriage + three children = annulment.

In contrast, we can see how several Protestant groups, have been consistently inconsistent in their beliefs, with several of them changing their stance on a wide variety of issues ranging from divorce to abortion and contraception to core beliefs about the nature of the Saints and the Blessed Virgin.

What is even more amazing is that this accusation is coming from a 'Non-denominational' christian whose very identity comes from the lack of any fixed set of traditional christian beliefs, on a forum that requests 'Devout educated Catholics Only' to answer a doubt regarding a Catholic prayer.

Keep It up Guys!!

Oh, I do not lack a "fixed set of Biblical Christian beliefs". I could care less what some of the Protestant groups teach. I could care less if they flip-flop. Certainly popes have contradicted popes, councils have contradicted councils - and I could care less, if not for ridiculous claims of infallibility.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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1/18/2014 12:26:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 11:29:47 AM, CynicalDiogenes wrote:
Isn't there a single devout educated catholic on DDO who visits these forums?

I think I should find some other place for posting these type of discussions.

I was looking for a forum where Catholics and Non-catholics could share their views on theology, and there would be some fruitful discussion, instead I am stuck with a bunch of trolls who have no clue what they are talking about........:(

That's exactly what you are. Nine times out of ten, you post pro-Catholic propaganda for some reason. I have no idea why. You talk about popes (universal pontiffs) during the days of the Roman Empire, knowing that there was no such thing. That crap didn't start up until about 600 AD. You look at a purported list of bishops of Rome (there are several different lists) prior to 600 AD - and call them all popes!

If you want a "fruitful discussion", you'll have to drop the propaganda.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
srehtiw
Posts: 491
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1/18/2014 1:19:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/17/2014 5:26:25 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:06:50 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:56:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:52:32 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:46:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:39:51 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Catch up. There's a new pope and times are a'changing. New pope is a lot more down to earth than the last few. He lives in a significantly let posh hotel room, instead of the proper Vatican accommodations. Plus he doesn't really have billions of dollars to call upon. The Vatican doesn't actually have much hard cash, instead it just has priceless artwork which is significantly harder to food to starving people. Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made. In the history of the catholic church, there have been 2 infallible statements made, and both referred to Mary. By the way which freedoms which people have given their lives for are you referring to?

Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Freedom to assemble
Freedom of access to a certain level of free public education

The Roman Catholic Church is on record as opposing every one of those freedoms as they are commonly and normally defined.

Interesting. I'm going to have to put some research into this. But anyway, the pope is not always counted as infallible, he is only infallible when he is giving a ex cathedra statement, and since the concept was created in 1871 two have been made, one regarding Mary's immaculate conception and the other regarding her assumption into heaven. So he doesn't really need to rescind any statement on these freedoms as no ex cathedra statements have been made regarding them.

I didn't say a word about any imaginary "ex cathedra" statements. You did. I said that the Roman Catholic Church has repeatedly, repeatedly condemned the "four freedoms" - and on top of that, it has repeatedly opposed free public education for all. I have seen dozens upon dozens of statements to this effect - and not once have I seen a statement saying, "We made some mistakes on that. We want to fix that."

My statement was: they can't say such a thing. To do so would totally alter Catholicism, or undo it.

Read the infamous Syllabus of Errors.

Not really. You'd be surprised how much change a religion can take. While not declared as dogma the big bang theory was basically accepted by the church back in the 50s and evolution was accepted as fact by John Paul II in the 90s. Don't make broad statements about what the church can do.

Your position basically gives them license to teach any and every error in the world and never correct it. That's sorta like the WatchTower group who has made numerous false prophesies concerning world affairs.

Not really. Or in any way. My position says they don't need to correct it as it never existed in the first place. Anyway criteria for ex cathedra.
1."the Roman Pontiff"
2."speaks ex cathedra"
3."he defines"
4."that a doctrine concerning faith or morals"
5."must be held by the whole Church"
And then it is an ex cathedra statement.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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1/18/2014 1:38:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 1:19:30 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:26:25 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:06:50 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:56:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:52:32 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:46:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:39:51 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Catch up. There's a new pope and times are a'changing. New pope is a lot more down to earth than the last few. He lives in a significantly let posh hotel room, instead of the proper Vatican accommodations. Plus he doesn't really have billions of dollars to call upon. The Vatican doesn't actually have much hard cash, instead it just has priceless artwork which is significantly harder to food to starving people. Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made. In the history of the catholic church, there have been 2 infallible statements made, and both referred to Mary. By the way which freedoms which people have given their lives for are you referring to?

Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Freedom to assemble
Freedom of access to a certain level of free public education

The Roman Catholic Church is on record as opposing every one of those freedoms as they are commonly and normally defined.

Interesting. I'm going to have to put some research into this. But anyway, the pope is not always counted as infallible, he is only infallible when he is giving a ex cathedra statement, and since the concept was created in 1871 two have been made, one regarding Mary's immaculate conception and the other regarding her assumption into heaven. So he doesn't really need to rescind any statement on these freedoms as no ex cathedra statements have been made regarding them.

I didn't say a word about any imaginary "ex cathedra" statements. You did. I said that the Roman Catholic Church has repeatedly, repeatedly condemned the "four freedoms" - and on top of that, it has repeatedly opposed free public education for all. I have seen dozens upon dozens of statements to this effect - and not once have I seen a statement saying, "We made some mistakes on that. We want to fix that."

My statement was: they can't say such a thing. To do so would totally alter Catholicism, or undo it.

Read the infamous Syllabus of Errors.

Not really. You'd be surprised how much change a religion can take. While not declared as dogma the big bang theory was basically accepted by the church back in the 50s and evolution was accepted as fact by John Paul II in the 90s. Don't make broad statements about what the church can do.

Your position basically gives them license to teach any and every error in the world and never correct it. That's sorta like the WatchTower group who has made numerous false prophesies concerning world affairs.

Not really. Or in any way. My position says they don't need to correct it as it never existed in the first place. Anyway criteria for ex cathedra.
1."the Roman Pontiff"
2."speaks ex cathedra"
3."he defines"
4."that a doctrine concerning faith or morals"
5."must be held by the whole Church"
And then it is an ex cathedra statement.

Heck, they made that up. Where in the world did they come up with that, anyway. There's nothing in the Bible about. There's nothing in the extra-Biblical statements of the early church fathers. Anyway, I guess what they are trying to pull is: "The pope speaks "ex cathedra" when the pope claims he's speaking "ex cathedra".

You say, "My position says they don't need to correct it as it never existed in the first place."

What's the "it" that they do not need to correct? In my opinion, they certainly need to correct all those rash, indeed harmful, statements made concerning separation of church and state and freedom of religion.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
srehtiw
Posts: 491
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1/18/2014 2:02:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 1:38:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/18/2014 1:19:30 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:26:25 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:06:50 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:56:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:52:32 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:46:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:39:51 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Catch up. There's a new pope and times are a'changing. New pope is a lot more down to earth than the last few. He lives in a significantly let posh hotel room, instead of the proper Vatican accommodations. Plus he doesn't really have billions of dollars to call upon. The Vatican doesn't actually have much hard cash, instead it just has priceless artwork which is significantly harder to food to starving people. Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made. In the history of the catholic church, there have been 2 infallible statements made, and both referred to Mary. By the way which freedoms which people have given their lives for are you referring to?

Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Freedom to assemble
Freedom of access to a certain level of free public education

The Roman Catholic Church is on record as opposing every one of those freedoms as they are commonly and normally defined.

Interesting. I'm going to have to put some research into this. But anyway, the pope is not always counted as infallible, he is only infallible when he is giving a ex cathedra statement, and since the concept was created in 1871 two have been made, one regarding Mary's immaculate conception and the other regarding her assumption into heaven. So he doesn't really need to rescind any statement on these freedoms as no ex cathedra statements have been made regarding them.

I didn't say a word about any imaginary "ex cathedra" statements. You did. I said that the Roman Catholic Church has repeatedly, repeatedly condemned the "four freedoms" - and on top of that, it has repeatedly opposed free public education for all. I have seen dozens upon dozens of statements to this effect - and not once have I seen a statement saying, "We made some mistakes on that. We want to fix that."

My statement was: they can't say such a thing. To do so would totally alter Catholicism, or undo it.

Read the infamous Syllabus of Errors.

Not really. You'd be surprised how much change a religion can take. While not declared as dogma the big bang theory was basically accepted by the church back in the 50s and evolution was accepted as fact by John Paul II in the 90s. Don't make broad statements about what the church can do.

Your position basically gives them license to teach any and every error in the world and never correct it. That's sorta like the WatchTower group who has made numerous false prophesies concerning world affairs.

Not really. Or in any way. My position says they don't need to correct it as it never existed in the first place. Anyway criteria for ex cathedra.
1."the Roman Pontiff"
2."speaks ex cathedra"
3."he defines"
4."that a doctrine concerning faith or morals"
5."must be held by the whole Church"
And then it is an ex cathedra statement.

Heck, they made that up. Where in the world did they come up with that, anyway. There's nothing in the Bible about. There's nothing in the extra-Biblical statements of the early church fathers. Anyway, I guess what they are trying to pull is: "The pope speaks "ex cathedra" when the pope claims he's speaking "ex cathedra".

You say, "My position says they don't need to correct it as it never existed in the first place."

What's the "it" that they do not need to correct? In my opinion, they certainly need to correct all those rash, indeed harmful, statements made concerning separation of church and state and freedom of religion.

The thing you're missing is that if it's not ex cathedral it's not official. They don't need to correct any of the said statements as if it's not ex cathedral it's just the opinion of whatever pope said it.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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1/18/2014 2:38:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 2:02:37 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/18/2014 1:38:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/18/2014 1:19:30 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:26:25 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:06:50 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:56:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:52:32 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:46:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:39:51 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Catch up. There's a new pope and times are a'changing. New pope is a lot more down to earth than the last few. He lives in a significantly let posh hotel room, instead of the proper Vatican accommodations. Plus he doesn't really have billions of dollars to call upon. The Vatican doesn't actually have much hard cash, instead it just has priceless artwork which is significantly harder to food to starving people. Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made. In the history of the catholic church, there have been 2 infallible statements made, and both referred to Mary. By the way which freedoms which people have given their lives for are you referring to?

Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Freedom to assemble
Freedom of access to a certain level of free public education

The Roman Catholic Church is on record as opposing every one of those freedoms as they are commonly and normally defined.

Interesting. I'm going to have to put some research into this. But anyway, the pope is not always counted as infallible, he is only infallible when he is giving a ex cathedra statement, and since the concept was created in 1871 two have been made, one regarding Mary's immaculate conception and the other regarding her assumption into heaven. So he doesn't really need to rescind any statement on these freedoms as no ex cathedra statements have been made regarding them.

I didn't say a word about any imaginary "ex cathedra" statements. You did. I said that the Roman Catholic Church has repeatedly, repeatedly condemned the "four freedoms" - and on top of that, it has repeatedly opposed free public education for all. I have seen dozens upon dozens of statements to this effect - and not once have I seen a statement saying, "We made some mistakes on that. We want to fix that."

My statement was: they can't say such a thing. To do so would totally alter Catholicism, or undo it.

Read the infamous Syllabus of Errors.

Not really. You'd be surprised how much change a religion can take. While not declared as dogma the big bang theory was basically accepted by the church back in the 50s and evolution was accepted as fact by John Paul II in the 90s. Don't make broad statements about what the church can do.

Your position basically gives them license to teach any and every error in the world and never correct it. That's sorta like the WatchTower group who has made numerous false prophesies concerning world affairs.

Not really. Or in any way. My position says they don't need to correct it as it never existed in the first place. Anyway criteria for ex cathedra.
1."the Roman Pontiff"
2."speaks ex cathedra"
3."he defines"
4."that a doctrine concerning faith or morals"
5."must be held by the whole Church"
And then it is an ex cathedra statement.

Heck, they made that up. Where in the world did they come up with that, anyway. There's nothing in the Bible about. There's nothing in the extra-Biblical statements of the early church fathers. Anyway, I guess what they are trying to pull is: "The pope speaks "ex cathedra" when the pope claims he's speaking "ex cathedra".

You say, "My position says they don't need to correct it as it never existed in the first place."

What's the "it" that they do not need to correct? In my opinion, they certainly need to correct all those rash, indeed harmful, statements made concerning separation of church and state and freedom of religion.

The thing you're missing is that if it's not ex cathedral it's not official. They don't need to correct any of the said statements as if it's not ex cathedral it's just the opinion of whatever pope said it.

So the Roman Catholic Church has, in your opinion, taught a grand total of two things since 1870, neither of which need correcting, so they're good to go?

By the way, who said that they only need to possibly correct ex cathedra statements?

Is not the way you have it, any pope could blurt out any sort of nonsense, and nobody would ever have to correct it - not him, not anyone
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
srehtiw
Posts: 491
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1/18/2014 2:41:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 2:38:12 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/18/2014 2:02:37 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/18/2014 1:38:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/18/2014 1:19:30 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:26:25 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:06:50 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:56:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:52:32 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:46:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:39:51 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Catch up. There's a new pope and times are a'changing. New pope is a lot more down to earth than the last few. He lives in a significantly let posh hotel room, instead of the proper Vatican accommodations. Plus he doesn't really have billions of dollars to call upon. The Vatican doesn't actually have much hard cash, instead it just has priceless artwork which is significantly harder to food to starving people. Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made. In the history of the catholic church, there have been 2 infallible statements made, and both referred to Mary. By the way which freedoms which people have given their lives for are you referring to?

Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Freedom to assemble
Freedom of access to a certain level of free public education

The Roman Catholic Church is on record as opposing every one of those freedoms as they are commonly and normally defined.

Interesting. I'm going to have to put some research into this. But anyway, the pope is not always counted as infallible, he is only infallible when he is giving a ex cathedra statement, and since the concept was created in 1871 two have been made, one regarding Mary's immaculate conception and the other regarding her assumption into heaven. So he doesn't really need to rescind any statement on these freedoms as no ex cathedra statements have been made regarding them.

I didn't say a word about any imaginary "ex cathedra" statements. You did. I said that the Roman Catholic Church has repeatedly, repeatedly condemned the "four freedoms" - and on top of that, it has repeatedly opposed free public education for all. I have seen dozens upon dozens of statements to this effect - and not once have I seen a statement saying, "We made some mistakes on that. We want to fix that."

My statement was: they can't say such a thing. To do so would totally alter Catholicism, or undo it.

Read the infamous Syllabus of Errors.

Not really. You'd be surprised how much change a religion can take. While not declared as dogma the big bang theory was basically accepted by the church back in the 50s and evolution was accepted as fact by John Paul II in the 90s. Don't make broad statements about what the church can do.

Your position basically gives them license to teach any and every error in the world and never correct it. That's sorta like the WatchTower group who has made numerous false prophesies concerning world affairs.

Not really. Or in any way. My position says they don't need to correct it as it never existed in the first place. Anyway criteria for ex cathedra.
1."the Roman Pontiff"
2."speaks ex cathedra"
3."he defines"
4."that a doctrine concerning faith or morals"
5."must be held by the whole Church"
And then it is an ex cathedra statement.

Heck, they made that up. Where in the world did they come up with that, anyway. There's nothing in the Bible about. There's nothing in the extra-Biblical statements of the early church fathers. Anyway, I guess what they are trying to pull is: "The pope speaks "ex cathedra" when the pope claims he's speaking "ex cathedra".

You say, "My position says they don't need to correct it as it never existed in the first place."

What's the "it" that they do not need to correct? In my opinion, they certainly need to correct all those rash, indeed harmful, statements made concerning separation of church and state and freedom of religion.

The thing you're missing is that if it's not ex cathedral it's not official. They don't need to correct any of the said statements as if it's not ex cathedral it's just the opinion of whatever pope said it.

So the Roman Catholic Church has, in your opinion, taught a grand total of two things since 1870, neither of which need correcting, so they're good to go?

By the way, who said that they only need to possibly correct ex cathedra statements?

Is not the way you have it, any pope could blurt out any sort of nonsense, and nobody would ever have to correct it - not him, not anyone

Nice timing, I'd just started looking at your new thread.
Well he might need to, but no one else would have to, because it's his opinion.
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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1/19/2014 12:42:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/16/2014 7:53:16 AM, CynicalDiogenes wrote:
'Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit

As it was in the Beginning, it is now and ever shall be, the world without end'

What exactly is this talking about?What is the origin of this prayer?

There is a viewpoint among many mystics from diverse cultures that time itself is an illusion.Does the last line seem to imply this?

I wouldn't call myself devout, but I'm certainly an educated Catholic.

I can't be 100% sure in my response to your question, but I think you're right. Basically, God transcends time, since he created it. Since he isn't bound by time, he always was whatever he was, and for all eternity will be the same.

Hope that makes sense. Basically, God's nature never changes.
Proof that people witnessed living dinosaurs:
http://www.debate.org...
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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1/19/2014 9:56:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/18/2014 2:41:26 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/18/2014 2:38:12 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/18/2014 2:02:37 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/18/2014 1:38:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/18/2014 1:19:30 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:26:25 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 5:06:50 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:56:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:52:32 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:46:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:39:51 PM, srehtiw wrote:
At 1/17/2014 4:18:39 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 1/17/2014 3:22:52 PM, Ramshutu wrote:
At 1/17/2014 2:50:58 PM, dadman wrote:
who freakn knows .. just some line collected from some intellectual-egghead contemplating his naval somewhere .. the RCC is about ecclectic as they come .. adopting and morphing into and from every pagan practice and thought out there .. if someone can quote chapter and verse from the bible I then stand corrected .. more on catholicism http://dadmansabode.com... .. this is what happens when the door is open and you've "added" to the book . . . all hell is broken lose .. helterskelter indeed

Well if it helps, with regards to catholicism, it does seem that the pope is the only religious leader in christianity that actually does the things that Jesus Christ said you should.

That's a pretty broad statement without an ounce of supporting evidence. That the so-called "pope" might say or do some very correct and very beneficial things is not denied. A Muslim or an atheist can do that.

After all, the man lives in a billion dollar dwelling and has more billions of dollars at his disposal. He pays for nothing. He claims to speak as the infallible voice of God. Has he bothered to rescind any of those statements which condemn the very freedoms for which men have given their lives? Sir, he can't rescind them!

This pope does just as his predecessors have done: he senses the political climate and bases his maneuvers upon that.

Catch up. There's a new pope and times are a'changing. New pope is a lot more down to earth than the last few. He lives in a significantly let posh hotel room, instead of the proper Vatican accommodations. Plus he doesn't really have billions of dollars to call upon. The Vatican doesn't actually have much hard cash, instead it just has priceless artwork which is significantly harder to food to starving people. Plus he doesn't have to rescind any statements as none of relevance have been made. In the history of the catholic church, there have been 2 infallible statements made, and both referred to Mary. By the way which freedoms which people have given their lives for are you referring to?

Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Freedom of religion
Freedom to assemble
Freedom of access to a certain level of free public education

The Roman Catholic Church is on record as opposing every one of those freedoms as they are commonly and normally defined.

Interesting. I'm going to have to put some research into this. But anyway, the pope is not always counted as infallible, he is only infallible when he is giving a ex cathedra statement, and since the concept was created in 1871 two have been made, one regarding Mary's immaculate conception and the other regarding her assumption into heaven. So he doesn't really need to rescind any statement on these freedoms as no ex cathedra statements have been made regarding them.

I didn't say a word about any imaginary "ex cathedra" statements. You did. I said that the Roman Catholic Church has repeatedly, repeatedly condemned the "four freedoms" - and on top of that, it has repeatedly opposed free public education for all. I have seen dozens upon dozens of statements to this effect - and not once have I seen a statement saying, "We made some mistakes on that. We want to fix that."

My statement was: they can't say such a thing. To do so would totally alter Catholicism, or undo it.

Read the infamous Syllabus of Errors.

Not really. You'd be surprised how much change a religion can take. While not declared as dogma the big bang theory was basically accepted by the church back in the 50s and evolution was accepted as fact by John Paul II in the 90s. Don't make broad statements about what the church can do.

Your position basically gives them license to teach any and every error in the world and never correct it. That's sorta like the WatchTower group who has made numerous false prophesies concerning world affairs.

Not really. Or in any way. My position says they don't need to correct it as it never existed in the first place. Anyway criteria for ex cathedra.
1."the Roman Pontiff"
2."speaks ex cathedra"
3."he defines"
4."that a doctrine concerning faith or morals"
5."must be held by the whole Church"
And then it is an ex cathedra statement.

Heck, they made that up. Where in the world did they come up with that, anyway. There's nothing in the Bible about. There's nothing in the extra-Biblical statements of the early church fathers. Anyway, I guess what they are trying to pull is: "The pope speaks "ex cathedra" when the pope claims he's speaking "ex cathedra".

You say, "My position says they don't need to correct it as it never existed in the first place."

What's the "it" that they do not need to correct? In my opinion, they certainly need to correct all those rash, indeed harmful, statements made concerning separation of church and state and freedom of religion.

The thing you're missing is that if it's not ex cathedral it's not official. They don't need to correct any of the said statements as if it's not ex cathedral it's just the opinion of whatever pope said it.

So the Roman Catholic Church has, in your opinion, taught a grand total of two things since 1870, neither of which need correcting, so they're good to go?

By the way, who said that they only need to possibly correct ex cathedra statements?

Is not the way you have it, any pope could blurt out any sort of nonsense, and nobody would ever have to correct it - not him, not anyone

Nice timing, I'd just started looking at your new thread.
Well he might need to, but no one else would have to, because it's his opinion.

That's all he ever gives: his opinion. His opinion is that Mary was sinless and bodily assumed into heaven. That's what he thinks. He says, for some reason, that you must believe it. Again, that's what he thinks. He also says that the church and state must be united. That's what he thinks. He says you are accursed if you do not believe it. Again, that's what he thinks.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."