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theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/23/2014 7:13:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Theists; if I said I were God, and then waved my hands over a cancer patient and cured them; would you believe I was God?
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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1/23/2014 7:51:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/23/2014 7:13:09 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theists; if I said I were God, and then waved my hands over a cancer patient and cured them; would you believe I was God?
Well the difficulty with that is that the supposed ' All Loving ' god just doesn't do that!

This ' All Loving god ' does the opposite, and invariably causes intense suffering, requiring human intervention and horrific attempts to try to kill or minimise the horrendous disease this All Loving god ' introduced in the first place! (Col. 1:16) Story book bible

So should any human come up with a system to wave their hands over Cancer patients and Cure them immediately OR discover how to overcome the disease this All Loving god introduced, then I would suggest they are morally Superior and truly Loving, compared to the as_hole pretend loving gods presented so far!
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/23/2014 8:16:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/23/2014 7:37:52 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
No.

if you believe in Jesus here is my reply: why not? I'm doing the same thing Jesus did to prove it to you(perform a miracle.)
If you don't believe in Jesus than I say good for you.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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1/23/2014 8:28:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/23/2014 8:16:34 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/23/2014 7:37:52 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
No.

if you believe in Jesus here is my reply: why not? I'm doing the same thing Jesus did to prove it to you(perform a miracle.)
If you don't believe in Jesus than I say good for you.

It's worse in the case of Jesus actually. With Jesus we merely have the claim that he did what he did.

We have witness accounts in todays age that so and so did a miracle, yet all christians see the lack of justification of such accounts.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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1/23/2014 10:31:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/23/2014 8:16:34 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/23/2014 7:37:52 PM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
No.

if you believe in Jesus here is my reply: why not?

jesus's main proof he ws God was his rising from the dead.
Romanii
Posts: 4,852
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1/23/2014 10:41:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/23/2014 7:13:09 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theists; if I said I were God, and then waved my hands over a cancer patient and cured them; would you believe I was God?

No. You could just have discovered a very innovative cure for cancer.
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/25/2014 3:53:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/23/2014 10:41:30 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/23/2014 7:13:09 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theists; if I said I were God, and then waved my hands over a cancer patient and cured them; would you believe I was God?

No. You could just have discovered a very innovative cure for cancer.

Okay then what about this scenario; I say I'm God. Somebody gets angry about that and stabs me in the chest. The doctors say I'm medically dead, I get set in the hospital morgue and then a day later the morgue is found empty and I start appearing to people. All this is happening in 2014; would you believe me then?
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
Romanii
Posts: 4,852
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1/25/2014 10:56:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/25/2014 3:53:35 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/23/2014 10:41:30 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/23/2014 7:13:09 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theists; if I said I were God, and then waved my hands over a cancer patient and cured them; would you believe I was God?

No. You could just have discovered a very innovative cure for cancer.

Okay then what about this scenario; I say I'm God. Somebody gets angry about that and stabs me in the chest. The doctors say I'm medically dead, I get set in the hospital morgue and then a day later the morgue is found empty and I start appearing to people. All this is happening in 2014; would you believe me then?

No. There have been several cases of people being declared dead but not really being dead.
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/26/2014 5:19:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/25/2014 10:56:59 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/25/2014 3:53:35 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/23/2014 10:41:30 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/23/2014 7:13:09 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theists; if I said I were God, and then waved my hands over a cancer patient and cured them; would you believe I was God?

No. You could just have discovered a very innovative cure for cancer.

Okay then what about this scenario; I say I'm God. Somebody gets angry about that and stabs me in the chest. The doctors say I'm medically dead, I get set in the hospital morgue and then a day later the morgue is found empty and I start appearing to people. All this is happening in 2014; would you believe me then?

No. There have been several cases of people being declared dead but not really being dead.

But I was stabbed in the chest and lost all my blood. My heart has a big hole in it; how could I possibly still have been alive?
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/26/2014 12:17:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/25/2014 10:56:59 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/25/2014 3:53:35 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/23/2014 10:41:30 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/23/2014 7:13:09 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theists; if I said I were God, and then waved my hands over a cancer patient and cured them; would you believe I was God?

No. You could just have discovered a very innovative cure for cancer.

Okay then what about this scenario; I say I'm God. Somebody gets angry about that and stabs me in the chest. The doctors say I'm medically dead, I get set in the hospital morgue and then a day later the morgue is found empty and I start appearing to people. All this is happening in 2014; would you believe me then?

No. There have been several cases of people being declared dead but not really being dead.

That stab probably would've paralyzed me too, but I'm still walking around.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/26/2014 12:23:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Jesus didn't just merely perform miracles and rise from the dead. His birth, his life and his death fulfilled 100s of biblical prophecies in a way that would be almost mathematically impossible, if he were not the messiah. Not to mention his lineage which traces directly back to king David.

Source:

Memory
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/26/2014 12:24:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 12:23:44 PM, Wylted wrote:
Jesus didn't just merely perform miracles and rise from the dead. His birth, his life and his death fulfilled 100s of biblical prophecies in a way that would be almost mathematically impossible, if he were not the messiah. Not to mention his lineage which traces directly back to king David.

Source:

Memory

I forgot to quote my other source besides memory (bible).
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/26/2014 3:21:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 12:24:50 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/26/2014 12:23:44 PM, Wylted wrote:
Jesus didn't just merely perform miracles and rise from the dead. His birth, his life and his death fulfilled 100s of biblical prophecies in a way that would be almost mathematically impossible, if he were not the messiah. Not to mention his lineage which traces directly back to king David.

Source:

Memory

I forgot to quote my other source besides memory (bible).

That's not answering the question.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
Romanii
Posts: 4,852
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1/26/2014 3:32:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 5:19:39 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/25/2014 10:56:59 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/25/2014 3:53:35 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/23/2014 10:41:30 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/23/2014 7:13:09 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theists; if I said I were God, and then waved my hands over a cancer patient and cured them; would you believe I was God?

No. You could just have discovered a very innovative cure for cancer.

Okay then what about this scenario; I say I'm God. Somebody gets angry about that and stabs me in the chest. The doctors say I'm medically dead, I get set in the hospital morgue and then a day later the morgue is found empty and I start appearing to people. All this is happening in 2014; would you believe me then?

No. There have been several cases of people being declared dead but not really being dead.

But I was stabbed in the chest and lost all my blood. My heart has a big hole in it; how could I possibly still have been alive?

That still wouldn't prove that you're God. There are a number of tricks you could have pulled off to stay alive.
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/26/2014 3:56:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 3:32:28 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/26/2014 5:19:39 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/25/2014 10:56:59 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/25/2014 3:53:35 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/23/2014 10:41:30 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/23/2014 7:13:09 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theists; if I said I were God, and then waved my hands over a cancer patient and cured them; would you believe I was God?

No. You could just have discovered a very innovative cure for cancer.

Okay then what about this scenario; I say I'm God. Somebody gets angry about that and stabs me in the chest. The doctors say I'm medically dead, I get set in the hospital morgue and then a day later the morgue is found empty and I start appearing to people. All this is happening in 2014; would you believe me then?

No. There have been several cases of people being declared dead but not really being dead.

But I was stabbed in the chest and lost all my blood. My heart has a big hole in it; how could I possibly still have been alive?

That still wouldn't prove that you're God. There are a number of tricks you could have pulled off to stay alive.

What tricks could I possibly use to keep myself alive after my spinal cord has been snapped, my heart has a gaping hole in it, I've lost all my blood, and have punctured lungs causing my brain to suffocate; How I ask you HOW could I possibly have kept myself alive through all that?
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
Romanii
Posts: 4,852
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1/26/2014 3:58:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 3:56:00 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/26/2014 3:32:28 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/26/2014 5:19:39 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/25/2014 10:56:59 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/25/2014 3:53:35 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/23/2014 10:41:30 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/23/2014 7:13:09 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theists; if I said I were God, and then waved my hands over a cancer patient and cured them; would you believe I was God?

No. You could just have discovered a very innovative cure for cancer.

Okay then what about this scenario; I say I'm God. Somebody gets angry about that and stabs me in the chest. The doctors say I'm medically dead, I get set in the hospital morgue and then a day later the morgue is found empty and I start appearing to people. All this is happening in 2014; would you believe me then?

No. There have been several cases of people being declared dead but not really being dead.

But I was stabbed in the chest and lost all my blood. My heart has a big hole in it; how could I possibly still have been alive?

That still wouldn't prove that you're God. There are a number of tricks you could have pulled off to stay alive.

What tricks could I possibly use to keep myself alive after my spinal cord has been snapped, my heart has a gaping hole in it, I've lost all my blood, and have punctured lungs causing my brain to suffocate; How I ask you HOW could I possibly have kept myself alive through all that?

30-40 surgeries would have done the trick.

By the way, do you have a point to all this?
I imagine that you're trying to say something to people who believe in the resurrection of Jesus.
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/26/2014 4:22:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 3:58:24 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/26/2014 3:56:00 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/26/2014 3:32:28 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/26/2014 5:19:39 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/25/2014 10:56:59 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/25/2014 3:53:35 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/23/2014 10:41:30 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/23/2014 7:13:09 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theists; if I said I were God, and then waved my hands over a cancer patient and cured them; would you believe I was God?

No. You could just have discovered a very innovative cure for cancer.

Okay then what about this scenario; I say I'm God. Somebody gets angry about that and stabs me in the chest. The doctors say I'm medically dead, I get set in the hospital morgue and then a day later the morgue is found empty and I start appearing to people. All this is happening in 2014; would you believe me then?

No. There have been several cases of people being declared dead but not really being dead.

But I was stabbed in the chest and lost all my blood. My heart has a big hole in it; how could I possibly still have been alive?

That still wouldn't prove that you're God. There are a number of tricks you could have pulled off to stay alive.

What tricks could I possibly use to keep myself alive after my spinal cord has been snapped, my heart has a gaping hole in it, I've lost all my blood, and have punctured lungs causing my brain to suffocate; How I ask you HOW could I possibly have kept myself alive through all that?

30-40 surgeries would have done the trick.

By the way, do you have a point to all this?
I imagine that you're trying to say something to people who believe in the resurrection of Jesus.

Okay it appears you've discovered the secret. I was trying to make up a scenario where it would appear that I am God(in the way Jesus was.) Then when people thought that would prove it I would tell them what happened during the day I was dead; I was "beamed" up to an alien spaceship(I was actually an alien) and they used incredibly advanced medical technology to revive; something centuries ahead of Earth doctors.

The point I was trying to show was that it's possible that Jesus was actually an alien on some mission of teaching humans peace (or something) and the aliens planned the entire thing with the crucifixion and resurrection to get people to take him seriously.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
ethang5
Posts: 4,115
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1/28/2014 12:31:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 4:22:15 PM, theta_pinch wrote:

The point I was trying to show was that it's possible that Jesus was actually an alien on some mission of teaching humans peace (or something) and the aliens planned the entire thing with the crucifixion and resurrection to get people to take him seriously.

Why couldn't the aliens simply try the truth?

This is interesting though. The same scenario is in Revelations. Satan is supposed to raise up an anti-Christ who will convince the world that he (the anti-christ) is the messiah by way of astonishing miracles. Many, not being familiar with the word, will be convinced and follow him to death.

God has 5 qualities which are not, and cannot be in anyone else. Any claimant to the title missing even one of those qualities is a fraud.

God is...
Omnipotent - That is, He doesn't simply have more power than anyone else, He possesses ALL power.
Omnipresent - God is actually everywhere in time and space. It is more correct to say the universe exists IN Him than, to say He is everywhere in the universe.
Omniscient - God know everything there is to know, all that is and all that could be.
God is immutable - God is perfect perfection. Any change would be away from perfection. God does not change.
God is Eternal - God has always existed and will always exist. And unlike created things which are relational (relativity) God remains the same regardless of the relationship associated with Him. He is never relative.

So you could heal all the babies you want, and rise from the dead dozens of times, I will continue to deny your deity until you give me five.
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/28/2014 1:59:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/28/2014 12:31:31 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 1/26/2014 4:22:15 PM, theta_pinch wrote:

The point I was trying to show was that it's possible that Jesus was actually an alien on some mission of teaching humans peace (or something) and the aliens planned the entire thing with the crucifixion and resurrection to get people to take him seriously.

Why couldn't the aliens simply try the truth?

This is interesting though. The same scenario is in Revelations. Satan is supposed to raise up an anti-Christ who will convince the world that he (the anti-christ) is the messiah by way of astonishing miracles. Many, not being familiar with the word, will be convinced and follow him to death.

God has 5 qualities which are not, and cannot be in anyone else. Any claimant to the title missing even one of those qualities is a fraud.

God is...
Omnipotent - That is, He doesn't simply have more power than anyone else, He possesses ALL power.
Omnipresent - God is actually everywhere in time and space. It is more correct to say the universe exists IN Him than, to say He is everywhere in the universe.
Omniscient - God know everything there is to know, all that is and all that could be.
God is immutable - God is perfect perfection. Any change would be away from perfection. God does not change.
God is Eternal - God has always existed and will always exist. And unlike created things which are relational (relativity) God remains the same regardless of the relationship associated with Him. He is never relative.

Jesus didn't show any of those.

So you could heal all the babies you want, and rise from the dead dozens of times, I will continue to deny your deity until you give me five.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
DudeStop
Posts: 1,278
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1/28/2014 2:10:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 12:24:50 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/26/2014 12:23:44 PM, Wylted wrote:
Jesus didn't just merely perform miracles and rise from the dead. His birth, his life and his death fulfilled 100s of biblical prophecies in a way that would be almost mathematically impossible, if he were not the messiah. Not to mention his lineage which traces directly back to king David.

Source:

Memory

I forgot to quote my other source besides memory (bible).

Reliable source points to you sir.
bubbatheclown
Posts: 1,258
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1/28/2014 6:04:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/23/2014 7:13:09 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theists; if I said I were God, and then waved my hands over a cancer patient and cured them; would you believe I was God?

No. If you did such a thing I'd conclude one of the following:
A. You were a very elaborate fraud (the most likely)
B. You were a false prophet
C. You were the Antichrist
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/28/2014 6:08:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/28/2014 6:04:38 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
At 1/23/2014 7:13:09 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theists; if I said I were God, and then waved my hands over a cancer patient and cured them; would you believe I was God?

No. If you did such a thing I'd conclude one of the following:
A. You were a very elaborate fraud (the most likely)
B. You were a false prophet
C. You were the Antichrist

What if I cured people and someone stabbed me in the heart and then 2 days later I'm suddenly appearing to people even in locked rooms with a big gaping hole in my chest where the stab tore open my heart?
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
bubbatheclown
Posts: 1,258
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1/28/2014 6:41:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/28/2014 6:08:10 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/28/2014 6:04:38 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
At 1/23/2014 7:13:09 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theists; if I said I were God, and then waved my hands over a cancer patient and cured them; would you believe I was God?

No. If you did such a thing I'd conclude one of the following:
A. You were a very elaborate fraud (the most likely)
B. You were a false prophet
C. You were the Antichrist

What if I cured people and someone stabbed me in the heart and then 2 days later I'm suddenly appearing to people even in locked rooms with a big gaping hole in my chest where the stab tore open my heart?

Then you'd be the Antichrist. You'd likely follow up with the establishment of a global government, the establishment of the global religion that worships you, and a law that makes it mandatory to receive a mark on your right hand or your forehead, which without is impossible to purchase anything.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,128
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1/28/2014 6:50:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 12:23:44 PM, Wylted wrote:
Jesus didn't just merely perform miracles and rise from the dead. His birth, his life and his death fulfilled 100s of biblical prophecies in a way that would be almost mathematically impossible, if he were not the messiah. Not to mention his lineage which traces directly back to king David.

Source:

Memory

You mean prophecies like this one:
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

Matthew says this prophecy has been fulfilled here:
Matthew 1:21-23
21 She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." 22 Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet: 23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which translated means, "God with us."

Matthew doesn't seem to realize 'Jesus' is not the same as 'Immanuel'. BTW Jesus does not mean "God with us". It means "He will save".
Oh, and you mean the contradictory lineages in Matthew and Luke. Also, both lines are patriarchal. If Joseph's seed did not impregnate Mary (immaculate conception, right?), then Joseph's lineage is pointless, is it not? Oops! Did I take it too literally? We can go back to pretending if you like!
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/28/2014 6:57:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/28/2014 6:41:57 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
At 1/28/2014 6:08:10 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/28/2014 6:04:38 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
At 1/23/2014 7:13:09 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
Theists; if I said I were God, and then waved my hands over a cancer patient and cured them; would you believe I was God?

No. If you did such a thing I'd conclude one of the following:
A. You were a very elaborate fraud (the most likely)
B. You were a false prophet
C. You were the Antichrist

What if I cured people and someone stabbed me in the heart and then 2 days later I'm suddenly appearing to people even in locked rooms with a big gaping hole in my chest where the stab tore open my heart?

and before I died I took two of my followers up pikes peak where they saw me conversing with floating entities who look like elija, moses, and god.

Then you'd be the Antichrist. You'd likely follow up with the establishment of a global government, the establishment of the global religion that worships you, and a law that makes it mandatory to receive a mark on your right hand or your forehead, which without is impossible to purchase anything.

By the way this is in 3200 BC; before all the anti-christs come.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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1/28/2014 9:35:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/28/2014 6:50:07 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/26/2014 12:23:44 PM, Wylted wrote:
Jesus didn't just merely perform miracles and rise from the dead. His birth, his life and his death fulfilled 100s of biblical prophecies in a way that would be almost mathematically impossible, if he were not the messiah. Not to mention his lineage which traces directly back to king David.

Source:

Memory

You mean prophecies like this one:
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

Matthew says this prophecy has been fulfilled here:
Matthew 1:21-23
21 She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." 22 Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet: 23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which translated means, "God with us."

Matthew doesn't seem to realize 'Jesus' is not the same as 'Immanuel'. BTW Jesus does not mean "God with us". It means "He will save".
Oh, and you mean the contradictory lineages in Matthew and Luke. Also, both lines are patriarchal. If Joseph's seed did not impregnate Mary (immaculate conception, right?), then Joseph's lineage is pointless, is it not? Oops! Did I take it too literally? We can go back to pretending if you like!

Even though I was speaking from a Christian perspective I'm actually an atheist. I was merely trying to give a Christian perspective that was not yet mentioned. I have absolutely no incentive to defend a view I don't adhere to.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,128
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1/28/2014 11:43:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/28/2014 9:35:52 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 1/28/2014 6:50:07 PM, Skepticalone wrote:
At 1/26/2014 12:23:44 PM, Wylted wrote:
Jesus didn't just merely perform miracles and rise from the dead. His birth, his life and his death fulfilled 100s of biblical prophecies in a way that would be almost mathematically impossible, if he were not the messiah. Not to mention his lineage which traces directly back to king David.

Source:

Memory

You mean prophecies like this one:
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord Himself shall give you a sign: Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

Matthew says this prophecy has been fulfilled here:
Matthew 1:21-23
21 She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins." 22 Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet: 23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which translated means, "God with us."

Matthew doesn't seem to realize 'Jesus' is not the same as 'Immanuel'. BTW Jesus does not mean "God with us". It means "He will save".
Oh, and you mean the contradictory lineages in Matthew and Luke. Also, both lines are patriarchal. If Joseph's seed did not impregnate Mary (immaculate conception, right?), then Joseph's lineage is pointless, is it not? Oops! Did I take it too literally? We can go back to pretending if you like!

Even though I was speaking from a Christian perspective I'm actually an atheist. I was merely trying to give a Christian perspective that was not yet mentioned. I have absolutely no incentive to defend a view I don't adhere to.

Okay, so back to pretending it is! :)
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Installgentoo
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1/29/2014 5:10:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/28/2014 1:59:38 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/28/2014 12:31:31 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 1/26/2014 4:22:15 PM, theta_pinch wrote:

The point I was trying to show was that it's possible that Jesus was actually an alien on some mission of teaching humans peace (or something) and the aliens planned the entire thing with the crucifixion and resurrection to get people to take him seriously.

Why couldn't the aliens simply try the truth?

This is interesting though. The same scenario is in Revelations. Satan is supposed to raise up an anti-Christ who will convince the world that he (the anti-christ) is the messiah by way of astonishing miracles. Many, not being familiar with the word, will be convinced and follow him to death.

God has 5 qualities which are not, and cannot be in anyone else. Any claimant to the title missing even one of those qualities is a fraud.

God is...
Omnipotent - That is, He doesn't simply have more power than anyone else, He possesses ALL power.
Omnipresent - God is actually everywhere in time and space. It is more correct to say the universe exists IN Him than, to say He is everywhere in the universe.
Omniscient - God know everything there is to know, all that is and all that could be.
God is immutable - God is perfect perfection. Any change would be away from perfection. God does not change.
God is Eternal - God has always existed and will always exist. And unlike created things which are relational (relativity) God remains the same regardless of the relationship associated with Him. He is never relative.

Jesus didn't show any of those.


Yes he did. Have you even read the Bible at all?
theta_pinch
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1/29/2014 6:11:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/29/2014 5:10:49 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 1/28/2014 1:59:38 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/28/2014 12:31:31 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 1/26/2014 4:22:15 PM, theta_pinch wrote:

The point I was trying to show was that it's possible that Jesus was actually an alien on some mission of teaching humans peace (or something) and the aliens planned the entire thing with the crucifixion and resurrection to get people to take him seriously.

Why couldn't the aliens simply try the truth?

This is interesting though. The same scenario is in Revelations. Satan is supposed to raise up an anti-Christ who will convince the world that he (the anti-christ) is the messiah by way of astonishing miracles. Many, not being familiar with the word, will be convinced and follow him to death.

God has 5 qualities which are not, and cannot be in anyone else. Any claimant to the title missing even one of those qualities is a fraud.

God is...
Omnipotent - That is, He doesn't simply have more power than anyone else, He possesses ALL power.
Omnipresent - God is actually everywhere in time and space. It is more correct to say the universe exists IN Him than, to say He is everywhere in the universe.
Omniscient - God know everything there is to know, all that is and all that could be.
God is immutable - God is perfect perfection. Any change would be away from perfection. God does not change.
God is Eternal - God has always existed and will always exist. And unlike created things which are relational (relativity) God remains the same regardless of the relationship associated with Him. He is never relative.

Jesus didn't show any of those.


Yes he did. Have you even read the Bible at all?

Yes I read it every sunday but I haven't found Jesus show any of those. Could you show how he proved those.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
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