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Was it designed?

MadCornishBiker
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1/30/2014 12:49:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Just a few things to wonder about, for those who dare read them.

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

And there are plenty more examples on the end of this link, under the heading of "Was it designed", though you may find other articles interesting also.

http://wol.jw.org...
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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1/30/2014 3:13:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well for starters I take it you mean INTELLIGENT design. Design can happen absent intent despite the you can't have design without a designer mantra.

I mean is this going to be another argument for intelligent design that has being refuted 1000 times before.

But but but it's so complex

Ok complexity doesn't mean intelligent design but its irreducible complex !!!

the odds are astronomical !!!

If such and such didn't happen we wouldn't be here ...

OMG, isn't it amazing...

Science can't explain...

something something human made object, something something of the natural world ergo intelligent design....

Do you think you have something that hasn't be refuted before corn ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
tcpanter
Posts: 13
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1/30/2014 5:16:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
There is no reason to think that just because something is complex that it was designed. Especially when you have an excellent explanation (evolution) of exactly how simple things can, under their own volition, become more complex over time.

The inteligent design argument would hold a lot more water if evolution didnt so easily explain the diversity and complexity of live on Earth. But because we have a valid alternative to the Goddidit argument there seems to be very little reason to assume anything we find it designed.
MadCornishBiker
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1/30/2014 6:42:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 3:13:36 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Well for starters I take it you mean INTELLIGENT design. Design can happen absent intent despite the you can't have design without a designer mantra.

I mean is this going to be another argument for intelligent design that has being refuted 1000 times before.

But but but it's so complex

Ok complexity doesn't mean intelligent design but its irreducible complex !!!

the odds are astronomical !!!

If such and such didn't happen we wouldn't be here ...

OMG, isn't it amazing...

Science can't explain...

something something human made object, something something of the natural world ergo intelligent design....

Do you think you have something that hasn't be refuted before corn ?

Actually Intelligent design has never been refuted successfully as an honest perusal of those links and all the others on the end of the last one will show. Many have tried to refute it, but there are too many things which can be explained no other way for any refutation to be successful.

Why?

Because to refute Intelligent Design one has to be able to show exactly how these things could have come about without a designer.

If it happens without intent it isn't design, simple as. Any other use of the word is an abuse of it, as the definition from Merriam- Webster shows.

Design cannot happen by accident, it demands order and cause.

It also demands intelligence.

Please see http://www.merriam-webster.com... for more than one "Full definition". None of which allow for any other meaning whether as a verb or a noun, all of which demand intelligence.
MadCornishBiker
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1/30/2014 6:45:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 5:16:05 AM, tcpanter wrote:
There is no reason to think that just because something is complex that it was designed. Especially when you have an excellent explanation (evolution) of exactly how simple things can, under their own volition, become more complex over time.

The inteligent design argument would hold a lot more water if evolution didnt so easily explain the diversity and complexity of live on Earth. But because we have a valid alternative to the Goddidit argument there seems to be very little reason to assume anything we find it designed.

The trouble is that evolution doesn't explain that. Adaptation explains some of it, but that fits in every bit as well with creation as it does with evolution.

There really is no valid counter to the God did it argument, except in the minds of those who are determined not to believe in God.
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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1/30/2014 6:46:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 6:42:43 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/30/2014 3:13:36 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Well for starters I take it you mean INTELLIGENT design. Design can happen absent intent despite the you can't have design without a designer mantra.

I mean is this going to be another argument for intelligent design that has being refuted 1000 times before.

But but but it's so complex

Ok complexity doesn't mean intelligent design but its irreducible complex !!!

the odds are astronomical !!!

If such and such didn't happen we wouldn't be here ...

OMG, isn't it amazing...

Science can't explain...

something something human made object, something something of the natural world ergo intelligent design....

Do you think you have something that hasn't be refuted before corn ?

Actually Intelligent design has never been refuted successfully as an honest perusal of those links and all the others on the end of the last one will show. Many have tried to refute it, but there are too many things which can be explained no other way for any refutation to be successful.

Why?

Because to refute Intelligent Design one has to be able to show exactly how these things could have come about without a designer.

If it happens without intent it isn't design, simple as. Any other use of the word is an abuse of it, as the definition from Merriam- Webster shows.

Design cannot happen by accident, it demands order and cause.

It also demands intelligence.

Please see http://www.merriam-webster.com... for more than one "Full definition". None of which allow for any other meaning whether as a verb or a noun, all of which demand intelligence.

Going to play with Paley's watch are you gonzo?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
biomystic
Posts: 606
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1/30/2014 7:09:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
We did it. We designed Creation, our Universe. It is Crucible by which matter evolves into Life, then into Intelligence, then into Humanity, then into God. It is purpose of life to create God. And we did. Creation sits as a done deal, the whole space-time continuum from Big Bang Beginning to Black Hole annihilation ending, and we play out our lives in a vast Play Scripted from the beginning to the end. We are embedded within this Creation cycle and cannot see it except rarely in non-material world perception found in spiritual epiphanies, a state of perception of the world called "maya" illusion.

Prophets are embedded within Humanity's social evolution to help guide the Humanitarian incarnation within our species that evolves us from our animal human beings selves into becoming true humane beings. This is the purpose true religion. Prophets are informed by angels sent back from our future selves who have evolved themselves into what we know as "God" at what we know of as "The End of Days". Creation prepares souls for The World To Come. Creation creates God "unbegotten" through the evolution of space-time and matter and energy. As a prophesy bearer in the old-time Jewish Christian tradition I bear witness of this spiritual truth found now and shared for all the world in the Gospel of Humanity.

Http://biomystic.org...
AlbinoBunny
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1/30/2014 7:42:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Intelligent design is a claim, what evidence does it have? The fact that we don't have any other answers yet? Arguments with very limited positive evidence, working on how little we know, don't do much to persuade me.
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bulproof
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1/30/2014 8:20:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hey madman posting sh!t from the witlesses does not a good argument make. Just look at 1914.

Tell me how you determine designed in comparison to undesigned?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/30/2014 7:53:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 7:42:42 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Intelligent design is a claim, what evidence does it have? The fact that we don't have any other answers yet? Arguments with very limited positive evidence, working on how little we know, don't do much to persuade me.

Fair enough, but at least they leave the question open, not closed off as some claim.

Literally all the evidence we have so far, apart from God's word that is, is that the fossil record is a perfect fit to the creation account, and not to evolution.

True, it depends on how much you trust the word of one who has proved so accurate in all else he has said, even down to predicting how bad things would become on earth post 1914.

Who else could have predicted thousands of year ago that eventually we would put this whole planet and ourselves in an irreversible path to complete ruin? Even science has to agree with that fact. Revelation 11:18.

I will more than happily take the word of one who can do that thanks, over and above the word of any human whatever.
AlbinoBunny
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1/30/2014 7:59:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 7:53:55 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/30/2014 7:42:42 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
Intelligent design is a claim, what evidence does it have? The fact that we don't have any other answers yet? Arguments with very limited positive evidence, working on how little we know, don't do much to persuade me.

Fair enough, but at least they leave the question open, not closed off as some claim.

Literally all the evidence we have so far, apart from God's word that is, is that the fossil record is a perfect fit to the creation account, and not to evolution.

Lol.


True, it depends on how much you trust the word of one who has proved so accurate in all else he has said, even down to predicting how bad things would become on earth post 1914.

Who else could have predicted thousands of year ago that eventually we would put this whole planet and ourselves in an irreversible path to complete ruin? Even science has to agree with that fact. Revelation 11:18.

I will more than happily take the word of one who can do that thanks, over and above the word of any human whatever.

Ok. lol
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
MadCornishBiker
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1/30/2014 8:03:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 8:20:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Hey madman posting sh!t from the witlesses does not a good argument make. Just look at 1914.

Tell me how you determine designed in comparison to undesigned?

Ah the past, where would you be without it? You have nothing else in your armoury, lol.

Truly pitiable.

By the word itself in this case because the dictionary gives us no alternative. Something designed is the product of intelligent thought. Look it up in Merriam-Webster, there is no alternative implication in it.

Something undesigned comes about without intelligent outside influence.

For instance creatures can adapt to their situations, physically and mentally, because God designed and built them with the capacity to do so. They cannot change from one basic kind to another, and no scripture does not tell us exactly what those basic kinds were, since that was not a part of their design parameters.

So far, all the evidence fits the biblical creation account perfectly, and does not fit the projections of evolution as taught now. I say so far, not because I believe it will change, but because I cannot prove that it won't other than by the written word of the one who predicted the current state of the world, and the time period in which we would reach it, long before we got here.

I think I'll take his word for it, thanks.
MadCornishBiker
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1/30/2014 8:06:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 8:20:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Hey madman posting sh!t from the witlesses does not a good argument make.

Don't worry about that I won't personally post anything you say.

Personally I don't call microbiologists and the like Witless, but then I am sure you think you know more than they do, lol.
bulproof
Posts: 25,218
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1/30/2014 8:11:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 8:06:04 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/30/2014 8:20:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Hey madman posting sh!t from the witlesses does not a good argument make.

Don't worry about that I won't personally post anything you say.

Personally I don't call microbiologists and the like Witless, but then I am sure you think you know more than they do, lol.

Place Homo heidelbergensis in genesis.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/30/2014 8:25:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 8:03:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/30/2014 8:20:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Hey madman posting sh!t from the witlesses does not a good argument make. Just look at 1914.

Tell me how you determine designed in comparison to undesigned?

Ah the past, where would you be without it? You have nothing else in your armoury, lol.

Truly pitiable.

By the word itself in this case because the dictionary gives us no alternative. Something designed is the product of intelligent thought. Look it up in Merriam-Webster, there is no alternative implication in it.

Something undesigned comes about without intelligent outside influence.

For instance creatures can adapt to their situations, physically and mentally, because God designed and built them with the capacity to do so. They cannot change from one basic kind to another, and no scripture does not tell us exactly what those basic kinds were, since that was not a part of their design parameters.

So far, all the evidence fits the biblical creation account perfectly, and does not fit the projections of evolution as taught now. I say so far, not because I believe it will change, but because I cannot prove that it won't other than by the written word of the one who predicted the current state of the world, and the time period in which we would reach it, long before we got here.

and how do you figure that all evidence fits the creatio account perfectly and not evolution?

I think I'll take his word for it, thanks.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/30/2014 8:28:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 6:42:43 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/30/2014 3:13:36 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Well for starters I take it you mean INTELLIGENT design. Design can happen absent intent despite the you can't have design without a designer mantra.

I mean is this going to be another argument for intelligent design that has being refuted 1000 times before.

But but but it's so complex

Ok complexity doesn't mean intelligent design but its irreducible complex !!!

the odds are astronomical !!!

If such and such didn't happen we wouldn't be here ...

OMG, isn't it amazing...

Science can't explain...

something something human made object, something something of the natural world ergo intelligent design....

Do you think you have something that hasn't be refuted before corn ?

Actually Intelligent design has never been refuted successfully as an honest perusal of those links and all the others on the end of the last one will show. Many have tried to refute it, but there are too many things which can be explained no other way for any refutation to be successful.

such as?

Why?

Because to refute Intelligent Design one has to be able to show exactly how these things could have come about without a designer.

If it happens without intent it isn't design, simple as. Any other use of the word is an abuse of it, as the definition from Merriam- Webster shows.

Design cannot happen by accident, it demands order and cause.

It also demands intelligence.

Please see http://www.merriam-webster.com... for more than one "Full definition". None of which allow for any other meaning whether as a verb or a noun, all of which demand intelligence.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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1/30/2014 9:15:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 12:49:30 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Just a few things to wonder about, for those who dare read them.

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

And there are plenty more examples on the end of this link, under the heading of "Was it designed", though you may find other articles interesting also.

http://wol.jw.org...

I don't have to read religious thoughts of men to know that everything was designed and created by our invisible Creator within His thoughts. In fact,

We can't design and create a tree through a computer processor so perfect that we believe it's real. 0's and 1's in a binary computer code have limitations but God's wavelengths of invisible vibrations ( God's language ) have infinite combinations to make His illusions perfect enough to make us believe they are real.
dvande28
Posts: 32
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1/30/2014 9:19:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Who designed God?

If the complexity of life leads to the conclusion that it must have been designed, then the complexity of God would lead to the same conclusion.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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1/30/2014 9:25:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 9:19:48 PM, dvande28 wrote:
Who designed God?

If the complexity of life leads to the conclusion that it must have been designed, then the complexity of God would lead to the same conclusion.

We exist as vibrations within the mind of our Creator that are processed into information we can understand ( the illusions of our flesh and the things of this universe ). Since this is difficult enough to understand because of His perfectly designed illusions, we are not ready to understand the things beyond our own created existence within His mind.
bornofgod
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1/30/2014 9:30:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 8:03:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/30/2014 8:20:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Hey madman posting sh!t from the witlesses does not a good argument make. Just look at 1914.

Tell me how you determine designed in comparison to undesigned?

Ah the past, where would you be without it? You have nothing else in your armoury, lol.

Truly pitiable.

By the word itself in this case because the dictionary gives us no alternative. Something designed is the product of intelligent thought. Look it up in Merriam-Webster, there is no alternative implication in it.

Something undesigned comes about without intelligent outside influence.

For instance creatures can adapt to their situations, physically and mentally, because God designed and built them with the capacity to do so. They cannot change from one basic kind to another, and no scripture does not tell us exactly what those basic kinds were, since that was not a part of their design parameters.

So far, all the evidence fits the biblical creation account perfectly, and does not fit the projections of evolution as taught now. I say so far, not because I believe it will change, but because I cannot prove that it won't other than by the written word of the one who predicted the current state of the world, and the time period in which we would reach it, long before we got here.

I think I'll take his word for it, thanks.

Have you ever randomly run 0's and 1's through a computer processor and see what comes on a computer monitor? I'll bet it's a very confusing image.
Romanii
Posts: 4,851
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1/30/2014 10:21:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 12:49:30 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Just a few things to wonder about, for those who dare read them.

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

And there are plenty more examples on the end of this link, under the heading of "Was it designed", though you may find other articles interesting also.

http://wol.jw.org...

All of that can be easily explained through Theistic Evolution.
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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1/30/2014 10:57:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 9:30:03 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 1/30/2014 8:03:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/30/2014 8:20:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Hey madman posting sh!t from the witlesses does not a good argument make. Just look at 1914.

Tell me how you determine designed in comparison to undesigned?

Ah the past, where would you be without it? You have nothing else in your armoury, lol.

Truly pitiable.

By the word itself in this case because the dictionary gives us no alternative. Something designed is the product of intelligent thought. Look it up in Merriam-Webster, there is no alternative implication in it.

Something undesigned comes about without intelligent outside influence.

For instance creatures can adapt to their situations, physically and mentally, because God designed and built them with the capacity to do so. They cannot change from one basic kind to another, and no scripture does not tell us exactly what those basic kinds were, since that was not a part of their design parameters.

So far, all the evidence fits the biblical creation account perfectly, and does not fit the projections of evolution as taught now. I say so far, not because I believe it will change, but because I cannot prove that it won't other than by the written word of the one who predicted the current state of the world, and the time period in which we would reach it, long before we got here.

I think I'll take his word for it, thanks.

Have you ever randomly run 0's and 1's through a computer processor and see what comes on a computer monitor? I'll bet it's a very confusing image.

Thats a poor analogy; physics and biochemistry are not random.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
MadCornishBiker
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1/31/2014 3:29:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 10:59:30 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Even if you buy the idea of an intelligent designer, why does that mean the designer is the God of the Bible?

Of itself it doesn't, but who else but the one who could predict the mess we are in today thousands of years before we got here is a good candidate for the job? Only the one God,the God of the Bible has given us a creation account which fits perfectly with the fossil record as known today?

I could bring out points for hours which show how well qualified the God of the bible is. If you want more, just ask.
MadCornishBiker
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1/31/2014 3:31:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 10:21:45 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 1/30/2014 12:49:30 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Just a few things to wonder about, for those who dare read them.

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

http://wol.jw.org...

And there are plenty more examples on the end of this link, under the heading of "Was it designed", though you may find other articles interesting also.

http://wol.jw.org...

All of that can be easily explained through Theistic Evolution.

OK, go on then, no-ones explained it to me yet.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/31/2014 3:39:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 9:19:48 PM, dvande28 wrote:
Who designed God?

If the complexity of life leads to the conclusion that it must have been designed, then the complexity of God would lead to the same conclusion.

Who says God is complex?

God is spirit. nothing more, nothing less. There was nothing and no-one before God, not even time, which he created when he made the first thing that could change.
MadCornishBiker
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1/31/2014 3:57:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 8:28:19 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/30/2014 6:42:43 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/30/2014 3:13:36 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Well for starters I take it you mean INTELLIGENT design. Design can happen absent intent despite the you can't have design without a designer mantra.

I mean is this going to be another argument for intelligent design that has being refuted 1000 times before.

But but but it's so complex

Ok complexity doesn't mean intelligent design but its irreducible complex !!!

the odds are astronomical !!!

If such and such didn't happen we wouldn't be here ...

OMG, isn't it amazing...

Science can't explain...

something something human made object, something something of the natural world ergo intelligent design....

Do you think you have something that hasn't be refuted before corn ?

Actually Intelligent design has never been refuted successfully as an honest perusal of those links and all the others on the end of the last one will show. Many have tried to refute it, but there are too many things which can be explained no other way for any refutation to be successful.

such as?

Why?

Because to refute Intelligent Design one has to be able to show exactly how these things could have come about without a designer.

If it happens without intent it isn't design, simple as. Any other use of the word is an abuse of it, as the definition from Merriam- Webster shows.

Design cannot happen by accident, it demands order and cause.

It also demands intelligence.

Please see http://www.merriam-webster.com... for more than one "Full definition". None of which allow for any other meaning whether as a verb or a noun, all of which demand intelligence.

The complexity of the "drive train" a bit like a cross between a gearbox and a differential in appearance, employed by some microbes in propelling themselves along. Devices made up of a number of parts which would have to evolved all at once or not at all, since natural selection ignores anything that doesn't bring an advantage to the species.

That's the only one I can remember at this time and I haven't got the information with me since I am not at home, and won't be for over a week.

However microbiology is exposing more and more as time goes on.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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1/31/2014 4:07:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 9:19:48 PM, dvande28 wrote:
Who designed God?

If the complexity of life leads to the conclusion that it must have been designed, then the complexity of God would lead to the same conclusion.

This is like asking "what Harry Potter book lead to the first Harry Potter book?" Theists believe God just existed before everything, and he existed by his own nature.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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1/31/2014 4:16:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 8:25:01 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 1/30/2014 8:03:22 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/30/2014 8:20:57 AM, bulproof wrote:
Hey madman posting sh!t from the witlesses does not a good argument make. Just look at 1914.

Tell me how you determine designed in comparison to undesigned?

Ah the past, where would you be without it? You have nothing else in your armoury, lol.

Truly pitiable.

By the word itself in this case because the dictionary gives us no alternative. Something designed is the product of intelligent thought. Look it up in Merriam-Webster, there is no alternative implication in it.

Something undesigned comes about without intelligent outside influence.

For instance creatures can adapt to their situations, physically and mentally, because God designed and built them with the capacity to do so. They cannot change from one basic kind to another, and no scripture does not tell us exactly what those basic kinds were, since that was not a part of their design parameters.

So far, all the evidence fits the biblical creation account perfectly, and does not fit the projections of evolution as taught now. I say so far, not because I believe it will change, but because I cannot prove that it won't other than by the written word of the one who predicted the current state of the world, and the time period in which we would reach it, long before we got here.

and how do you figure that all evidence fits the creatio account perfectly and not evolution?

I think I'll take his word for it, thanks.

Because Evolution as taught at the moment makes no allowances for breaks in the chain, but if the Creation Account is to be believed, as written in the bible, that is exactly what you would find, a basic starting point for each "kind" as created by God, with adaptation thereafter as any loving designer would design his creatures to do to fit in with changing situations and food sources.

After all the Creation Account merely says that God created each creature according to it's kind, but didn't say how many kinds there were, or that he created everything as currently is, which would be impossible anyway.

So going by teh description you would expect to find a "base" for eaxch kind and adaptations afterwards.
Illegalcombatant
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1/31/2014 4:18:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/30/2014 6:42:43 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 1/30/2014 3:13:36 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Well for starters I take it you mean INTELLIGENT design. Design can happen absent intent despite the you can't have design without a designer mantra.

I mean is this going to be another argument for intelligent design that has being refuted 1000 times before.

But but but it's so complex

Ok complexity doesn't mean intelligent design but its irreducible complex !!!

the odds are astronomical !!!

If such and such didn't happen we wouldn't be here ...

OMG, isn't it amazing...

Science can't explain...

something something human made object, something something of the natural world ergo intelligent design....

Do you think you have something that hasn't be refuted before corn ?

Actually Intelligent design has never been refuted successfully as an honest perusal of those links and all the others on the end of the last one will show. Many have tried to refute it, but there are too many things which can be explained no other way for any refutation to be successful.

What has being refuted are the arguments used to justify intelligent design.

Intelligent design can't be refuted because you can always claim well that was the PLAN all along.


Why?

Because to refute Intelligent Design one has to be able to show exactly how these things could have come about without a designer.

1) Even if it wasn't shown how these things can happen without a designer doesn't justify an intelligent design inference, that just a argument from ignorance/God of the gaps.

Even if you show how something can happen without an intelligence behind it, it can always be claimed, well that was part of the plan too !!! So no it doesn't refute it.


If it happens without intent it isn't design, simple as. Any other use of the word is an abuse of it, as the definition from Merriam- Webster shows.

No. If it happens without intent then it is NON INTENTIONAL.


Design cannot happen by accident, it demands order and cause.


It also demands intelligence.

Only intelligent design does.

Please see http://www.merriam-webster.com... for more than one "Full definition". None of which allow for any other meaning whether as a verb or a noun, all of which demand intelligence.

If you don't accept that design can happen without an intelligent designer because you merely define design as something as the result of intent, well good for you. It doesn't prove jack, it just a definitionial move. But if you insist that "design" is one and the same as "intelligent design"........

What do you call something that exists absent intent ?

Also my original question was do you have an intelligent design argument that hasn't being refuted before....
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12