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Creationism on trial

theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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2/1/2014 9:34:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The counterpart to evolution on trial--http://www.debate.org...
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/1/2014 10:01:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/1/2014 9:34:33 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
The counterpart to evolution on trial--http://www.debate.org...

No theists or atheists knows who our Creator is so arguing about whether He exists or not is futile. He's invisible to stupid people who have no knowledge to know Him.

Jeremiah 10
10: But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God and the everlasting King. At his wrath the earth quakes, and the nations cannot endure his indignation.
11: Thus shall you say to them: "The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens."
12: It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.
13: When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightnings for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.
14: Every man is stupid and without knowledge; every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols; for his images are false, and there is no breath in them.
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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2/1/2014 10:02:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/1/2014 10:01:46 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/1/2014 9:34:33 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
The counterpart to evolution on trial--http://www.debate.org...

No theists or atheists knows who our Creator is so arguing about whether He exists or not is futile. He's invisible to stupid people who have no knowledge to know Him.

Jeremiah 10
10: But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God and the everlasting King. At his wrath the earth quakes, and the nations cannot endure his indignation.
11: Thus shall you say to them: "The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens."
12: It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.
13: When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightnings for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.
14: Every man is stupid and without knowledge; every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols; for his images are false, and there is no breath in them.

With all due respect could you not post on this because it will derail the debate.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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2/1/2014 10:04:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/1/2014 10:01:46 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/1/2014 9:34:33 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
The counterpart to evolution on trial--http://www.debate.org...

No theists or atheists knows who our Creator is so arguing about whether He exists or not is futile. He's invisible to stupid people who have no knowledge to know Him.

Jeremiah 10
10: But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God and the everlasting King. At his wrath the earth quakes, and the nations cannot endure his indignation.
11: Thus shall you say to them: "The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens."
12: It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.
13: When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightnings for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.
14: Every man is stupid and without knowledge; every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols; for his images are false, and there is no breath in them.

That include you you know.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/1/2014 10:06:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/1/2014 10:02:52 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/1/2014 10:01:46 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/1/2014 9:34:33 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
The counterpart to evolution on trial--http://www.debate.org...

No theists or atheists knows who our Creator is so arguing about whether He exists or not is futile. He's invisible to stupid people who have no knowledge to know Him.

Jeremiah 10
10: But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God and the everlasting King. At his wrath the earth quakes, and the nations cannot endure his indignation.
11: Thus shall you say to them: "The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens."
12: It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.
13: When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightnings for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.
14: Every man is stupid and without knowledge; every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols; for his images are false, and there is no breath in them.

With all due respect could you not post on this because it will derail the debate.

I can debate whether or not God exists as well as you and anyone else in this forum. I know He exists because I speak for Him. This means I am in defense of Myself, your Creator.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/1/2014 10:08:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/1/2014 10:04:22 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/1/2014 10:01:46 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/1/2014 9:34:33 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
The counterpart to evolution on trial--http://www.debate.org...

No theists or atheists knows who our Creator is so arguing about whether He exists or not is futile. He's invisible to stupid people who have no knowledge to know Him.

Jeremiah 10
10: But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God and the everlasting King. At his wrath the earth quakes, and the nations cannot endure his indignation.
11: Thus shall you say to them: "The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens."
12: It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.
13: When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightnings for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.
14: Every man is stupid and without knowledge; every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols; for his images are false, and there is no breath in them.

That include you you know.

I'm God's created servant, not a created man who has no idea who our Creator is during this age. Man was created male and female so in the next age, you will be reborn with two bodies. One a male and the other a female and you'll be partners for eternity. I will be given thousands of bodies who will be used to speak a new language into existence.
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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2/1/2014 10:59:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/1/2014 10:08:37 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/1/2014 10:04:22 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/1/2014 10:01:46 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/1/2014 9:34:33 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
The counterpart to evolution on trial--http://www.debate.org...

No theists or atheists knows who our Creator is so arguing about whether He exists or not is futile. He's invisible to stupid people who have no knowledge to know Him.

Jeremiah 10
10: But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God and the everlasting King. At his wrath the earth quakes, and the nations cannot endure his indignation.
11: Thus shall you say to them: "The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens."
12: It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.
13: When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightnings for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.
14: Every man is stupid and without knowledge; every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols; for his images are false, and there is no breath in them.

That include you you know.

I'm God's created servant, not a created man who has no idea who our Creator is during this age. Man was created male and female so in the next age, you will be reborn with two bodies. One a male and the other a female and you'll be partners for eternity. I will be given thousands of bodies who will be used to speak a new language into existence.

Why couldn't god pick a servant that knows how to avoid logical fallacies and speak logically, and convincingly for the existence of god? Is god st*pid, or does he not understand the intelligence that he gave us?
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/2/2014 8:21:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/1/2014 10:59:18 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 2/1/2014 10:08:37 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/1/2014 10:04:22 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/1/2014 10:01:46 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/1/2014 9:34:33 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
The counterpart to evolution on trial--http://www.debate.org...

No theists or atheists knows who our Creator is so arguing about whether He exists or not is futile. He's invisible to stupid people who have no knowledge to know Him.

Jeremiah 10
10: But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God and the everlasting King. At his wrath the earth quakes, and the nations cannot endure his indignation.
11: Thus shall you say to them: "The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens."
12: It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.
13: When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightnings for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.
14: Every man is stupid and without knowledge; every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols; for his images are false, and there is no breath in them.

That include you you know.

I'm God's created servant, not a created man who has no idea who our Creator is during this age. Man was created male and female so in the next age, you will be reborn with two bodies. One a male and the other a female and you'll be partners for eternity. I will be given thousands of bodies who will be used to speak a new language into existence.

Why couldn't god pick a servant that knows how to avoid logical fallacies and speak logically, and convincingly for the existence of god? Is god st*pid, or does he not understand the intelligence that he gave us?

God's language ( vibrations ) is much different than the languages that come from observations of the illusions in the universe that man sees. Man only thinks he's intelligent because of what God has given them to think with.
DudeStop
Posts: 1,278
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2/2/2014 8:31:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/1/2014 10:02:52 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/1/2014 10:01:46 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/1/2014 9:34:33 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
The counterpart to evolution on trial--http://www.debate.org...

No theists or atheists knows who our Creator is so arguing about whether He exists or not is futile. He's invisible to stupid people who have no knowledge to know Him.

Jeremiah 10
10: But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God and the everlasting King. At his wrath the earth quakes, and the nations cannot endure his indignation.
11: Thus shall you say to them: "The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens."
12: It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.
13: When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightnings for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.
14: Every man is stupid and without knowledge; every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols; for his images are false, and there is no breath in them.

With all due respect could you not post on this because it will derail the debate.

I've learned to stop arguing with him...
DudeStop
Posts: 1,278
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2/2/2014 8:32:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/1/2014 10:06:38 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/1/2014 10:02:52 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/1/2014 10:01:46 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/1/2014 9:34:33 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
The counterpart to evolution on trial--http://www.debate.org...

No theists or atheists knows who our Creator is so arguing about whether He exists or not is futile. He's invisible to stupid people who have no knowledge to know Him.

Jeremiah 10
10: But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God and the everlasting King. At his wrath the earth quakes, and the nations cannot endure his indignation.
11: Thus shall you say to them: "The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens."
12: It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.
13: When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightnings for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.
14: Every man is stupid and without knowledge; every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols; for his images are false, and there is no breath in them.

With all due respect could you not post on this because it will derail the debate.

I can debate whether or not God exists as well as you and anyone else in this forum. I know He exists because I speak for Him. This means I am in defense of Myself, your Creator.

I'm sorry, but didn't you admit to me that you would lose in a debate regarding whether god is real?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/2/2014 8:35:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/2/2014 8:32:22 AM, DudeStop wrote:
At 2/1/2014 10:06:38 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/1/2014 10:02:52 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/1/2014 10:01:46 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/1/2014 9:34:33 AM, theta_pinch wrote:
The counterpart to evolution on trial--http://www.debate.org...

No theists or atheists knows who our Creator is so arguing about whether He exists or not is futile. He's invisible to stupid people who have no knowledge to know Him.

Jeremiah 10
10: But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God and the everlasting King. At his wrath the earth quakes, and the nations cannot endure his indignation.
11: Thus shall you say to them: "The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens."
12: It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.
13: When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightnings for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.
14: Every man is stupid and without knowledge; every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols; for his images are false, and there is no breath in them.

With all due respect could you not post on this because it will derail the debate.

I can debate whether or not God exists as well as you and anyone else in this forum. I know He exists because I speak for Him. This means I am in defense of Myself, your Creator.

I'm sorry, but didn't you admit to me that you would lose in a debate regarding whether god is real?

I never said I would lose. I said that I can't debate about something that's completely invisible to the eyes of man. How can you debate our true existence as vibrations called energy when no man has ever known this fact? Some scientists believe this may be true but they still don't know it as the Truth.
bubbatheclown
Posts: 1,258
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2/3/2014 1:37:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Okay, let me see. The Prokaryote, a "simple" life form, which all life supposedly came from, has an average of several million base pairs of information. And this is a simple life form? There's no way some kind of accident could have formed such an organism. I don't care how much time you give it.
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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2/3/2014 2:00:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/3/2014 1:37:15 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
Okay, let me see. The Prokaryote, a "simple" life form, which all life supposedly came from, has an average of several million base pairs of information. And this is a simple life form? There's no way some kind of accident could have formed such an organism. I don't care how much time you give it.

That's a common misconception. NO ONE thinks that the first life form was a prokaryote. In reality what abiogenesis suggests is RNA contained in a fatty acid membrane and polymers similar to RNA(in function) but even simpler have been formed in labs with conditions present on early earth. Since it's only RNA(or another similar polymer) in a membrane without anything else it can function with probably less than a thousand bases.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
bubbatheclown
Posts: 1,258
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2/3/2014 2:54:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/3/2014 2:00:29 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/3/2014 1:37:15 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
Okay, let me see. The Prokaryote, a "simple" life form, which all life supposedly came from, has an average of several million base pairs of information. And this is a simple life form? There's no way some kind of accident could have formed such an organism. I don't care how much time you give it.

That's a common misconception. NO ONE thinks that the first life form was a prokaryote. In reality what abiogenesis suggests is RNA contained in a fatty acid membrane and polymers similar to RNA(in function) but even simpler have been formed in labs with conditions present on early earth. Since it's only RNA(or another similar polymer) in a membrane without anything else it can function with probably less than a thousand bases.

Thank you for clearing up this misconception surrounding Prokaryotes.
However, "less than a thousand base pairs" (perhaps 300-800 base pairs) is still a lot. Consider that they all have to be ordered and not just a glob of acids and chemicals. Not to mention such an organism would have to be capable of reproducing and passing on all the exact same base pairs.
All the laboratory experiments, though using conditions from the alleged early Earth, are controlled laboratory experiments. The scientists control all of the details. Nature doesn't have that benefit.
bubbatheclown
Posts: 1,258
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2/3/2014 2:56:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Not to mention that if a single faulty mutation killed the organism, abiogensis would have to start over, from scratch. Just think: a single faulty chromosome causes Down Syndrome.
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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2/3/2014 3:20:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/3/2014 2:54:46 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
At 2/3/2014 2:00:29 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/3/2014 1:37:15 PM, bubbatheclown wrote:
Okay, let me see. The Prokaryote, a "simple" life form, which all life supposedly came from, has an average of several million base pairs of information. And this is a simple life form? There's no way some kind of accident could have formed such an organism. I don't care how much time you give it.

That's a common misconception. NO ONE thinks that the first life form was a prokaryote. In reality what abiogenesis suggests is RNA contained in a fatty acid membrane and polymers similar to RNA(in function) but even simpler have been formed in labs with conditions present on early earth. Since it's only RNA(or another similar polymer) in a membrane without anything else it can function with probably less than a thousand bases.

Thank you for clearing up this misconception surrounding Prokaryotes.
However, "less than a thousand base pairs" (perhaps 300-800 base pairs) is still a lot. Consider that they all have to be ordered and not just a glob of acids and chemicals. Not to mention such an organism would have to be capable of reproducing and passing on all the exact same base pairs.

http://www.jbsdonline.com...

And

http://www.jbc.org...
All the laboratory experiments, though using conditions from the alleged early Earth, are controlled laboratory experiments. The scientists control all of the details. Nature doesn't have that benefit.

The conditions in the experiment are identical to those on early earth; it doesn't matter that scientists are doing the experiment.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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2/3/2014 3:23:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
AND

http://www.sciencedaily.com...
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson