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Abortion vs. Flooding the world.

Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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2/1/2014 1:05:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Now, I have often heard that abortion should be illegal because it kills an innocent soul, or similar religious based arguments surrounding promotion of life and not killing. (If you are a secular who is against abortion, this post does not apply to you).

Now, what about when god flooded the world? (I'm not going to put, 'supposedly', or 'under your beliefs' after everything, so just assume it is there. I'm an atheist, I don't believe in Noah's ark.) Surely there were innocent fetuses killed in this flood. Not to mention all the kittens, puppies and everything else that we declare to be innocent. By the way, saving the species is not the same as saving all of those animals, a lot were still killed, and animals still feel pain. Some animals even mourn the death of companions or tribe mates.

And it's not the same as when we bomb a terrorist hideout and accidentally kill a little girl fetching water nearby along with the terrorists. In that situation, it was an accident, and it would have been hard to do anything to stop that from happening without deaths of other innocents or soldiers. True it was somewhat negligence, but in the end, it isn't that ridiculous to put up the argument of necessity.

However, for an omnipotent, omnipresent, all-knowing deity, this kind of accident is not negligence or necessity. Couldn't god just beam all the bad people off the earth and save the good animals along with the good people? And surely there were more good people then Just Noah, his family and his servants. Couldn't god just give every bad person a heart attack? It is obvious that god supports, or at least condones the murder of some good or innocent to get rid of the bad.

I encourage you to look up the statistics for children never adopted for crime rates. Many people who don't get abortions put their children up for adoption.

Whatever happened to judging someone by their actions, not their words? Let's judge god by his actions, not his words.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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2/1/2014 11:40:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I didn't completely read your post , but laws are form men not for God, cause God is the owner of the world, men are just meant to safe keep God property, so they have no right to tell God what to do, He tells them.
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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2/2/2014 3:43:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm not positing that god should be subjected to human laws, I am saying that it is hypocritical for someone to believe in the flood, that god is omnipresent, omnipotent, and all-good, and to be against abortion.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
Dogknox
Posts: 5,071
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2/3/2014 2:09:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/2/2014 3:43:56 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I'm not positing that god should be subjected to human laws, I am saying that it is hypocritical for someone to believe in the flood, that god is omnipresent, omnipotent, and all-good, and to be against abortion.

Abortion is KILLING the innocent!!
It is solving YOUR problem by KILLING a innocent person!

God is LOVE! Scriptures tell you "God is love"! All who LOVE have God inside!
Killing innocent people is not actions of the heart!

You twist the facts to arrive at your conclusion! God died on the cross so you would not die!! God is more then fair, he accepted death so you would never have to die!

Lordgrae Jesus rose from the dead so all IN Jesus' resurrected Body will also rise to new life!
Rejecting Jesus is rejecting Life!
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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2/3/2014 5:00:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/3/2014 2:09:07 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/2/2014 3:43:56 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I'm not positing that god should be subjected to human laws, I am saying that it is hypocritical for someone to believe in the flood, that god is omnipresent, omnipotent, and all-good, and to be against abortion.

Abortion is KILLING the innocent!!
It is solving YOUR problem by KILLING a innocent person!

Wasn't my point that god did the same thing by killing a bunch of innocent babies, fetuses, puppies and kittens and other such innocent or benevolent animals and people?

God is LOVE! Scriptures tell you "God is love"! All who LOVE have God inside!
Killing innocent people is not actions of the heart!

Whatever happened to 'judge someone by their actions, not their words'. If I said that I am love and good, but I repeatedly kill, torment, ignore, and punish the innocent or blameless, then can someone truly call me those qualities?

You twist the facts to arrive at your conclusion! God died on the cross so you would not die!! God is more then fair, he accepted death so you would never have to die!

I do not accept that premise. Have you ever heard of 'too little too late'? And I'm pretty sure that I'm going to die.

Lordgrae Jesus rose from the dead so all IN Jesus' resurrected Body will also rise to new life!

What evidence do you have to back this claim? I do not accept the premise that Jesus even existed as a historical figure (the only evidence seems to be your book, and the likelihood that at least someone called themselves Jesus to inspire the story, so I remain agnostic about his possible existence as a man), so I cannot accept your conclusion.

I made a claim of hypocrisy if you accept certain premises and come to a certain conclusion. I made an argument based off of true premises. If you did not like my premises, or my conclusion, I implore you to leave a detailed response as to why. Please do not refute my argument with unbacked claims. I was able to make unbacked claims in my premise, because I was stating that if someone accepted those premises, therefore conclusion. My conclusion, like yours, only applies to someone who accepts the premise, but I set up my argument so that it was only targeted towards someone who accepts the premise.

Rejecting Jesus is rejecting Life!

Rejecting Grae is rejecting Freedom. Rejecting what I have done, and rejecting that I have been reborn thrice, not only into a new body, but a new mind, is the same as rejecting freedom, for that is what I am. Unchecked, I shall plunge the world into chaos, kept at bay, and I shall kill and die. Keep me close, but ever distant, to protect and defend, but not destroy and kill.

Do you see how these claims sound to me?
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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2/3/2014 5:04:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Your argument of, he is this quality, so he could not have done this action, is completely shattered when you look at the reality of the stories in your holy book, wherein he kills 42 children for mocking a prophet (and not mocking the word of god, they just were making fun of bald people. Seriously? Is that deserving of death?), floods the world, kills pretty much everyone in Sodom and Gamorrah (was everyone deserving of death?). This was only what I thought of off the top of my head. I haven't read the bible in years, but if you want more examples, I'll give you some more.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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2/3/2014 5:59:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well obviously the flood isn't to be taken literally.

I think the point of the story is that God has absolute dominion over his creation.

Even so, shouldn't God be able to do whatever he wants with his creation? If God created us, he too can destroy us.

I'm not saying he would do that, in fact he said he wouldn't through his covenant with Noah claiming that "he would never flood the world again."
Nolite Timere
Dogknox
Posts: 5,071
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2/3/2014 9:17:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/3/2014 5:00:25 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 2/3/2014 2:09:07 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/2/2014 3:43:56 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I'm not positing that god should be subjected to human laws, I am saying that it is hypocritical for someone to believe in the flood, that god is omnipresent, omnipotent, and all-good, and to be against abortion.

Abortion is KILLING the innocent!!
It is solving YOUR problem by KILLING a innocent person!

Wasn't my point that god did the same thing by killing a bunch of innocent babies, fetuses, puppies and kittens and other such innocent or benevolent animals and people?

God is LOVE! Scriptures tell you "God is love"! All who LOVE have God inside!
Killing innocent people is not actions of the heart!

Whatever happened to 'judge someone by their actions, not their words'. If I said that I am love and good, but I repeatedly kill, torment, ignore, and punish the innocent or blameless, then can someone truly call me those qualities?

You twist the facts to arrive at your conclusion! God died on the cross so you would not die!! God is more then fair, he accepted death so you would never have to die!

I do not accept that premise. Have you ever heard of 'too little too late'? And I'm pretty sure that I'm going to die.

Lordgrae Jesus rose from the dead so all IN Jesus' resurrected Body will also rise to new life!

What evidence do you have to back this claim? I do not accept the premise that Jesus even existed as a historical figure (the only evidence seems to be your book, and the likelihood that at least someone called themselves Jesus to inspire the story, so I remain agnostic about his possible existence as a man), so I cannot accept your conclusion.

I made a claim of hypocrisy if you accept certain premises and come to a certain conclusion. I made an argument based off of true premises. If you did not like my premises, or my conclusion, I implore you to leave a detailed response as to why. Please do not refute my argument with unbacked claims. I was able to make unbacked claims in my premise, because I was stating that if someone accepted those premises, therefore conclusion. My conclusion, like yours, only applies to someone who accepts the premise, but I set up my argument so that it was only targeted towards someone who accepts the premise.

Rejecting Jesus is rejecting Life!

Rejecting Grae is rejecting Freedom. Rejecting what I have done, and rejecting that I have been reborn thrice, not only into a new body, but a new mind, is the same as rejecting freedom, for that is what I am. Unchecked, I shall plunge the world into chaos, kept at bay, and I shall kill and die. Keep me close, but ever distant, to protect and defend, but not destroy and kill.

Do you see how these claims sound to me?

You said.. Wasn't my point that god did the same thing by killing a bunch of innocent babies, fetuses, puppies and kittens and other such innocent or benevolent animals and people?

I reply: Your point is wrong it is convoluted!God is all knowing.. God creates and only God can destroy!
Romans 9:21
Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

Your words.. Whatever happened to 'judge someone by their actions, not their words'. If I said that I am love and good, but I repeatedly kill, torment, ignore, and punish the innocent or blameless, then can someone truly call me those qualities?

I reply: Pharaoh killed all the babies in Moses's day!
Herod killed all babied under two when Jesus was born!
God is love.. He does NOT sit on his hands.. He came down to earth to die for YOU!!!
Herod & Pharaoh & Hitler etc did not love!!!

God is LOVE!! Love in action!

God died for you
You said.. I do not accept that premise. Have you ever heard of 'too little too late'? And I'm pretty sure that I'm going to die.

Yes all die... AND>> All rise to eternal life or they rise to eternal damnation!
Lordgrae Death is NO MORE! Jesus destroyed death by dying he restored life by rising!!!
The man in Gehenna (the places of eternal damnation) will curse Jesus!! They will curse Jesus because they cannot die to end their suffering!
Alive on earth none want to die, all wanted to feed all of their habits and desires never ever wanting to die!
The irony is, after this earth they will think of nothing except ways to die!! All will want to die never ever wanting to live!
Lordgrae They (the man in Gehenna) will try all manner of ways to kill themselves but none will work.. All they will end up doing is increasing their suffering! FINALLY....
Lordgrae finally after exhausting all other options they will step into the burning lake of lava.. No one will push you in! Under your own accord you will step into the lake thinking.. "Surely this will kill me"!!! But NO....
Lordgrae you will meld into one with Satan and his demonic horde !! You will become one with Satan a Ball of Pure burning HATE for eternity!!

Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars"they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Matthew 25:41
Then he will say to those at his left hand, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels

Lordgrae Wishing it not to be true does not make the truth go away!!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/3/2014 10:02:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/3/2014 5:59:06 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
Well obviously the flood isn't to be taken literally.

I think the point of the story is that God has absolute dominion over his creation.

Even so, shouldn't God be able to do whatever he wants with his creation? If God created us, he too can destroy us.

I'm not saying he would do that, in fact he said he wouldn't through his covenant with Noah claiming that "he would never flood the world again."

Deuteronomy 32
39: "`See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.