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Questions for a non-believer.

Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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2/2/2014 8:36:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There are quite a few stereotypes and misconceptions for one who identifies as atheist, agnostic, secular, or unafilliated. As someone who has at one time identified as each of these, I would like to clear up some misconceptions. If you have questions about these belief systems, feel free to ask.

I would just like to state a couple terms first.

Atheist. Someone who does not believe a god exists.

Agnostic. Someone who believes that a god may or may not exist.

Agnostic Atheist. Someone who believes that a god may exist in the theoretical sense, but rejects it as a possibility worth considering in the practical.

Unaffiliated. Someone who chooses not to identify with any structured belief set.

Deist. Someone who believes in a impersonal deity who does not interact in our day to day lives.

Anti-Theist. Someone who is not only an atheist, but does not like the deity portrayed by the various religious texts, and dislikes the religious establishment.

Apathetic - Someone who may identify as religious or spiritual for convenience, but may also identify as atheist or agnostic, but is uncaring about the question of whether a deity exists.

Pastafarian - Usually an atheist or some other secular. Specifically defines someone who stands for a strong separation of church and state.

Non-theist - Someone who is an atheist, or agnostic who affirms that they do not believe in god, but may wish that there were a god.

Note: Very few of these categories are mutually exclusive.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,083
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2/2/2014 9:01:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Nice, I suppose I should go with Pastafarian or Non-theist.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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2/3/2014 8:19:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/2/2014 8:36:45 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
There are quite a few stereotypes and misconceptions for one who identifies as atheist, agnostic, secular, or unafilliated. As someone who has at one time identified as each of these, I would like to clear up some misconceptions. If you have questions about these belief systems, feel free to ask.

I would just like to state a couple terms first.

Atheist. Someone who does not believe a god exists.

Agnostic. Someone who believes that a god may or may not exist.

Agnostic Atheist. Someone who believes that a god may exist in the theoretical sense, but rejects it as a possibility worth considering in the practical.

Unaffiliated. Someone who chooses not to identify with any structured belief set.

Deist. Someone who believes in a impersonal deity who does not interact in our day to day lives.

Anti-Theist. Someone who is not only an atheist, but does not like the deity portrayed by the various religious texts, and dislikes the religious establishment.

Apathetic - Someone who may identify as religious or spiritual for convenience, but may also identify as atheist or agnostic, but is uncaring about the question of whether a deity exists.

Pastafarian - Usually an atheist or some other secular. Specifically defines someone who stands for a strong separation of church and state.

Non-theist - Someone who is an atheist, or agnostic who affirms that they do not believe in god, but may wish that there were a god.


Note: Very few of these categories are mutually exclusive.

Your list is dumb and you should feel dumb.
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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2/3/2014 8:34:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
why is God so unimpressive? I mean; he's got psychological issues. He's so insecure that he needs to be worshipped every 7 days. He goes out and makes imperfect humans and blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a supreme being.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/3/2014 9:47:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/2/2014 8:36:45 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
There are quite a few stereotypes and misconceptions for one who identifies as atheist, agnostic, secular, or unafilliated. As someone who has at one time identified as each of these, I would like to clear up some misconceptions. If you have questions about these belief systems, feel free to ask.

I would just like to state a couple terms first.

Atheist. Someone who does not believe a god exists.

Agnostic. Someone who believes that a god may or may not exist.

Agnostic Atheist. Someone who believes that a god may exist in the theoretical sense, but rejects it as a possibility worth considering in the practical.

Unaffiliated. Someone who chooses not to identify with any structured belief set.

Deist. Someone who believes in a impersonal deity who does not interact in our day to day lives.

Anti-Theist. Someone who is not only an atheist, but does not like the deity portrayed by the various religious texts, and dislikes the religious establishment.

Apathetic - Someone who may identify as religious or spiritual for convenience, but may also identify as atheist or agnostic, but is uncaring about the question of whether a deity exists.

Pastafarian - Usually an atheist or some other secular. Specifically defines someone who stands for a strong separation of church and state.

Non-theist - Someone who is an atheist, or agnostic who affirms that they do not believe in god, but may wish that there were a god.


Note: Very few of these categories are mutually exclusive.

Prophets and saints are flesh that God used to reveal Himself to His invisible servant called the Word, or Son of God, also known as the invisible Messiah.

God chose believers to listen to the testimonies by us saints.

God chose unbelievers to reject our testimonies.

God chose most people to be ignorant during this age. These are people who don't realize what's going on while He's having one of His saints preach the gospel in one area until unbelievers have the saint killed for their testimonies because they are jealous of all the believers who listen to the spoken testimonies of the saint.

These are the only categories that exist during this first age. All the other categories come from religious people who were either chosen as believers, unbelievers or totally ignorant to what's going on in Campbell, CA, today where the last Gospel is being preached by God's last saint.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/3/2014 9:51:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/3/2014 8:34:30 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
why is God so unimpressive? I mean; he's got psychological issues. He's so insecure that he needs to be worshipped every 7 days. He goes out and makes imperfect humans and blames them for his own mistakes. He's a pretty poor excuse for a supreme being.

God doesn't blame His people for making mistakes. He created His people to make them believe they make mistakes so they blame each other. God created this strong delusion to keep His people deceived during this first age while He draws out His invisible servant and teaches Him through the flesh called saints and prophets about who we are within His mind.

Now we know who we are as invisible vibrations called energy to God will end this age soon so we can wake up in our new bodies in Paradise and learn that our bodies and everything we see are only illusions that come from processed information ( vibrations called energy ).
Dogknox
Posts: 5,039
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2/3/2014 10:53:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/2/2014 8:36:45 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
There are quite a few stereotypes and misconceptions for one who identifies as atheist, agnostic, secular, or unafilliated. As someone who has at one time identified as each of these, I would like to clear up some misconceptions. If you have questions about these belief systems, feel free to ask.

I would just like to state a couple terms first.

Atheist. Someone who does not believe a god exists.

Agnostic. Someone who believes that a god may or may not exist.

Agnostic Atheist. Someone who believes that a god may exist in the theoretical sense, but rejects it as a possibility worth considering in the practical.

Unaffiliated. Someone who chooses not to identify with any structured belief set.

Deist. Someone who believes in a impersonal deity who does not interact in our day to day lives.

Anti-Theist. Someone who is not only an atheist, but does not like the deity portrayed by the various religious texts, and dislikes the religious establishment.

Apathetic - Someone who may identify as religious or spiritual for convenience, but may also identify as atheist or agnostic, but is uncaring about the question of whether a deity exists.

Pastafarian - Usually an atheist or some other secular. Specifically defines someone who stands for a strong separation of church and state.

Non-theist - Someone who is an atheist, or agnostic who affirms that they do not believe in god, but may wish that there were a god.


Note: Very few of these categories are mutually exclusive.

I reply: This is just it; "They are BELIEFS!!!"

"You BELIEVE there is NO God"!
"You have FAITH there is NO God"! You cannot prove there is NO God!

You TRUST in yourself and your BELIEFS!!!!!
Lordgrae You have your BELIEFS just as Christians have theirs!! You are no better off in your BELIEFS in fact I would say, you are worse off!
You have placed your faith in the negative!
You believe in NOTHING except yourself! Good luck!!!!
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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2/4/2014 2:09:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
You TRUST in yourself and your BELIEFS!!!!!

Yes I do. However, merely having a belief does not mean that belief is invalid. Not all beliefs are equal. I believe in gravity. Now, this is supported by all evidence, observable, theoretical, and measurable. So this belief, while it is a belief, is founded in evidence.

!! You are no better off in your BELIEFS in fact I would say, you are worse off!
You have placed your faith in the negative!
You believe in NOTHING except yourself! Good luck!!!!

I am an agnostic atheist. A true atheist is an illogical position. Practical atheism, is the logical extension of agnosticism. If there is no evidence for the tooth fairy, yet you cannot disprove it, and many people believe in the tooth fairy, then is it logical for you to also believe in the tooth fairy? Is it logical to, when asked, say 'I don't know whether the tooth fairy exists'? Or is it more practical to say, 'I do not believe in the tooth fairy'? In a theoretical sense, I still accept the possibility of a deity.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
Dogknox
Posts: 5,039
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2/4/2014 4:07:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/4/2014 2:09:16 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
You TRUST in yourself and your BELIEFS!!!!!

Yes I do. However, merely having a belief does not mean that belief is invalid. Not all beliefs are equal. I believe in gravity. Now, this is supported by all evidence, observable, theoretical, and measurable. So this belief, while it is a belief, is founded in evidence.

!! You are no better off in your BELIEFS in fact I would say, you are worse off!
You have placed your faith in the negative!
You believe in NOTHING except yourself! Good luck!!!!

I am an agnostic atheist. A true atheist is an illogical position. Practical atheism, is the logical extension of agnosticism. If there is no evidence for the tooth fairy, yet you cannot disprove it, and many people believe in the tooth fairy, then is it logical for you to also believe in the tooth fairy? Is it logical to, when asked, say 'I don't know whether the tooth fairy exists'? Or is it more practical to say, 'I do not believe in the tooth fairy'? In a theoretical sense, I still accept the possibility of a deity.

As I said... You reject "God because you cannot prove, there is a God!"

Thus you BELIEVE there is NO GOD!! You cannot say; "I KNOW there is not a God"!!
You also MUST BELIEVE in "Random Chance"; Man was created by chance that the right chemicals happened to come together to make man!??

Lordgrae Let me think hmmm maybe lets be conservative... "One is Seventeen TRILLION" of a chance, highly unlikely odds against it happening but you are more then willing to believe it happened never the less!!??????????

Lordgrae You believe in evolution; Man came from monkey!! But you REJECT the idea of coming from a God!!!??? Funny how you can accept you came from a LOWLY monkey but not from a higher being as: God!?? You must have very low Self-esteem??!
You are MORE then willing to accept you came from or was formed By anything OTHER then God!! After all, man had to have had a start!!

FACT: You BELIEVE in "the survival of the fittest!"

Lordgrae Because "the survival of the fittest" is the ONLY LOGICAL conclusion of your GODLESS BELIEF!!!!!
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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2/4/2014 9:37:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
As I said... You reject "God because you cannot prove, there is a God!"

In a practical sense, yes. However, in a theoretical sense, I remain agnostic about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Allah, Brahma, Yahweh, Ahriman, Odin, Zeus, The Obama Llama, Horus and Mithra. However, it is inconvenient, and unreasonable to declare that these have a reasonable possibility, due to a lack of evidence to the contrary. So in a theoretical sense, I admit that I cannot disprove a deity, and therefore I accept that I have some faith. However, this faith cannot be considered the equal of yours.

Thus you BELIEVE there is NO GOD!! You cannot say; "I KNOW there is not a God"!!

I do not assert that I know there is no god. I merely assert that there is no evidence that strongly suggests a theistic deity, and little evidence for a deistic one, therefore, I choose to accept the negative assertion until further evidence is found.

You also MUST BELIEVE in "Random Chance"; Man was created by chance that the right chemicals happened to come together to make man!??

Well, evolution works pretty well. The odds of you throwing a bunch of chemicals together and randomly forming a man is quite improbable. However, throwing a bunch of chemicals into a mixture, letting it sit and boil for years, and forming an amino acid is not such an improbable feat. Then, based on evolution, the amino acids will form larger organisms to better survive, and then these organisms will reproduce and mutate, and some mutations will be beneficial, creating early eyes, mouths, and tails for movement. Then, some organisms will begin grouping together to form larger organisms to better survive, and on and on and on until you have a man.

However, I think Richard Dawkins explains it well when he describes this situation like this.

Imagine if you were playing a card game with four people. Now for this card game, the entire 52 card deck is dealt out completely to the four players, giving each player 13 cards. Now, you pick up your 13 cards and realize in astonishment that you have all of the hearts. You feel that such an amazing thing is worth sharing, so you show it to your friends. The person next to you suddenly reveals that they have all the diamonds, and same with the clubs and spades. Now, the odds of this happening are low, incredibly low. However, the chances of any combination of 13 cards has the same odds. It is simply that we only notice such a remarkable thing when it happens. If it never happens to you, you will never stop to think about the probability. This is what we call living in the effect. A cause cannot be divined simply because of an effect. The effect occurred, and that is all we can know from the situation.

And with billions of galaxies, each with billions of solar systems, each with a great many planets, don't the odds seem a little more likely now?

Lordgrae Let me think hmmm maybe lets be conservative... "One is Seventeen TRILLION" of a chance, highly unlikely odds against it happening but you are more then willing to believe it happened never the less!!??????????

I just addressed this. I just kept this in here so you would know I addressed all of your points.

Lordgrae You believe in evolution; Man came from monkey!! But you REJECT the idea of coming from a God!!!??? Funny how you can accept you came from a LOWLY monkey but not from a higher being as: God!?? You must have very low Self-esteem??!

This depends how you look at it. First off, we didn't come from the monkey. We came from a common ancestor of the monkey. Second. If you want the closest possible comparison to current humans, gorillas are your best bet.

Thirdly, why do you insist that being an animal is such a bad thing. Instead of viewing it as degrading yourself to the level of an animal, remember your days as a child reading the Jungle Book, with all the kind animals. It doesn't make the main character upset to be just another animal. It creates a feeling of kinship, and of responsibility, for we are responsible for our cousins.

You are MORE then willing to accept you came from or was formed By anything OTHER then God!! After all, man had to have had a start!!

You are MORE then willing to accept you came from a specific idea of a deity, but less then willing to accept another deity.

FACT: You BELIEVE in "the survival of the fittest!"

I believe that survival of the fittest plays at least some role in evolution. There are debates still going on about how important it is, but it is accepted by any mainstream thought that it at least plays some role.

However, as a moral code, it is terrible. However, neuroscience tells us what helps society if we accept the premise that we should increase the joy of living beings.

Lordgrae Because "the survival of the fittest" is the ONLY LOGICAL conclusion of your GODLESS BELIEF!!!!!

Not really. I have empathy. I can derive empathy from the necessity of the pack. Without the pack, my quality of life would be lower, so I have a desire to strengthen the pack (society) to benefit myself. Empathy derives the rest of our morals
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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2/4/2014 10:02:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/4/2014 4:07:21 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/4/2014 2:09:16 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
You TRUST in yourself and your BELIEFS!!!!!

Yes I do. However, merely having a belief does not mean that belief is invalid. Not all beliefs are equal. I believe in gravity. Now, this is supported by all evidence, observable, theoretical, and measurable. So this belief, while it is a belief, is founded in evidence.

!! You are no better off in your BELIEFS in fact I would say, you are worse off!
You have placed your faith in the negative!
You believe in NOTHING except yourself! Good luck!!!!

I am an agnostic atheist. A true atheist is an illogical position. Practical atheism, is the logical extension of agnosticism. If there is no evidence for the tooth fairy, yet you cannot disprove it, and many people believe in the tooth fairy, then is it logical for you to also believe in the tooth fairy? Is it logical to, when asked, say 'I don't know whether the tooth fairy exists'? Or is it more practical to say, 'I do not believe in the tooth fairy'? In a theoretical sense, I still accept the possibility of a deity.

As I said... You reject "God because you cannot prove, there is a God!"

Thus you BELIEVE there is NO GOD!! You cannot say; "I KNOW there is not a God"!!
You also MUST BELIEVE in "Random Chance"; Man was created by chance that the right chemicals happened to come together to make man!??

Lordgrae Let me think hmmm maybe lets be conservative... "One is Seventeen TRILLION" of a chance, highly unlikely odds against it happening but you are more then willing to believe it happened never the less!!??????????

Lordgrae You believe in evolution; Man came from monkey!! But you REJECT the idea of coming from a God!!!??? Funny how you can accept you came from a LOWLY monkey but not from a higher being as: God!?? You must have very low Self-esteem??!
You are MORE then willing to accept you came from or was formed By anything OTHER then God!! After all, man had to have had a start!!

FACT: You BELIEVE in "the survival of the fittest!"

Lordgrae Because "the survival of the fittest" is the ONLY LOGICAL conclusion of your GODLESS BELIEF!!!!!

I don't know how you drag your probabilities outa your arse, but the probability of life existing is 1/1.

Godbotherers like to create their own maths and science and it usually equates quite well the their intelligence level.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Dogknox
Posts: 5,039
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2/4/2014 10:12:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/4/2014 9:37:45 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
As I said... You reject "God because you cannot prove, there is a God!"

In a practical sense, yes. However, in a theoretical sense, I remain agnostic about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Allah, Brahma, Yahweh, Ahriman, Odin, Zeus, The Obama Llama, Horus and Mithra. However, it is inconvenient, and unreasonable to declare that these have a reasonable possibility, due to a lack of evidence to the contrary. So in a theoretical sense, I admit that I cannot disprove a deity, and therefore I accept that I have some faith. However, this faith cannot be considered the equal of yours.

Thus you BELIEVE there is NO GOD!! You cannot say; "I KNOW there is not a God"!!

I do not assert that I know there is no god. I merely assert that there is no evidence that strongly suggests a theistic deity, and little evidence for a deistic one, therefore, I choose to accept the negative assertion until further evidence is found.

You also MUST BELIEVE in "Random Chance"; Man was created by chance that the right chemicals happened to come together to make man!??

Well, evolution works pretty well. The odds of you throwing a bunch of chemicals together and randomly forming a man is quite improbable. However, throwing a bunch of chemicals into a mixture, letting it sit and boil for years, and forming an amino acid is not such an improbable feat. Then, based on evolution, the amino acids will form larger organisms to better survive, and then these organisms will reproduce and mutate, and some mutations will be beneficial, creating early eyes, mouths, and tails for movement. Then, some organisms will begin grouping together to form larger organisms to better survive, and on and on and on until you have a man.

However, I think Richard Dawkins explains it well when he describes this situation like this.

Imagine if you were playing a card game with four people. Now for this card game, the entire 52 card deck is dealt out completely to the four players, giving each player 13 cards. Now, you pick up your 13 cards and realize in astonishment that you have all of the hearts. You feel that such an amazing thing is worth sharing, so you show it to your friends. The person next to you suddenly reveals that they have all the diamonds, and same with the clubs and spades. Now, the odds of this happening are low, incredibly low. However, the chances of any combination of 13 cards has the same odds. It is simply that we only notice such a remarkable thing when it happens. If it never happens to you, you will never stop to think about the probability. This is what we call living in the effect. A cause cannot be divined simply because of an effect. The effect occurred, and that is all we can know from the situation.

And with billions of galaxies, each with billions of solar systems, each with a great many planets, don't the odds seem a little more likely now?

Lordgrae Let me think hmmm maybe lets be conservative... "One is Seventeen TRILLION" of a chance, highly unlikely odds against it happening but you are more then willing to believe it happened never the less!!??????????

I just addressed this. I just kept this in here so you would know I addressed all of your points.

Lordgrae You believe in evolution; Man came from monkey!! But you REJECT the idea of coming from a God!!!??? Funny how you can accept you came from a LOWLY monkey but not from a higher being as: God!?? You must have very low Self-esteem??!

This depends how you look at it. First off, we didn't come from the monkey. We came from a common ancestor of the monkey. Second. If you want the closest possible comparison to current humans, gorillas are your best bet.

Thirdly, why do you insist that being an animal is such a bad thing. Instead of viewing it as degrading yourself to the level of an animal, remember your days as a child reading the Jungle Book, with all the kind animals. It doesn't make the main character upset to be just another animal. It creates a feeling of kinship, and of responsibility, for we are responsible for our cousins.

You are MORE then willing to accept you came from or was formed By anything OTHER then God!! After all, man had to have had a start!!

You are MORE then willing to accept you came from a specific idea of a deity, but less then willing to accept another deity.

FACT: You BELIEVE in "the survival of the fittest!"

I believe that survival of the fittest plays at least some role in evolution. There are debates still going on about how important it is, but it is accepted by any mainstream thought that it at least plays some role.

However, as a moral code, it is terrible. However, neuroscience tells us what helps society if we accept the premise that we should increase the joy of living beings.

Lordgrae Because "the survival of the fittest" is the ONLY LOGICAL conclusion of your GODLESS BELIEF!!!!!

Not really. I have empathy. I can derive empathy from the necessity of the pack. Without the pack, my quality of life would be lower, so I have a desire to strengthen the pack (society) to benefit myself. Empathy derives the rest of our morals

So say you: Not really. I have empathy. I can derive empathy from the necessity of the pack. Without the pack, my quality of life would be lower, so I have a desire to strengthen the pack (society) to benefit myself. Empathy derives the rest of our morals

I reply: If you evolved as you truly believe, then you also BELIEVE man is the top of the evolving!
You must ALSO believe your genes (DNA) must keep evolving; Or you will be forced to reject evolution all together!

Lordgrae With this thought in mind.. You must BELIEVE for the sake of evolution in "the survival of the fittest" weed out the weak for the betterment of the whole!
I point out the Hitlers in the world, this is what it leads towards!!!
Kill the deformed, the retarded, the old and young, the weak, the poor etc! You will say "hogwash".. BUT you will have to deny all LOGIC to deny I am right!

FACT IS: You are no better then an animal, as you point out (above) why do you insist that being an animal is such a bad thing.

I point out You are as animals are and no better, because you are more then willing to admit you are NO better then an animal!! All Atheists must be willing to accept they are no better then a pig, dog sheep or snail! Just lucky to be more evolved then the animal below!

QUESTION: How was it everything first was created if you believe Random Chance or Evaluation, you must also be able to point out, Evolved from what!?
Evolved from NOTHING makes NOTHING!!
I don't expect you to answer from what it first started from, I DO expect you to post the LOGIC of evolution coming from nothing with out first something to create the something out of nothing!
YOU CAN'T!!!!!

>>>> But still you Illogically reject God! <<<<

Lordgrae You are more then willing to accept the Illogically IMPOSSIBLE as a truth!!
Just to reject the LOGICAL conclusion, there is a God.
To YOU A Omnipotent God is a lie!
And a Omnipotent God can be the ONLY answer to the question.. "How did it all first begin!?"
Dogknox
Posts: 5,039
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2/4/2014 10:26:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/4/2014 10:02:41 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/4/2014 4:07:21 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/4/2014 2:09:16 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
You TRUST in yourself and your BELIEFS!!!!!

Yes I do. However, merely having a belief does not mean that belief is invalid. Not all beliefs are equal. I believe in gravity. Now, this is supported by all evidence, observable, theoretical, and measurable. So this belief, while it is a belief, is founded in evidence.

!! You are no better off in your BELIEFS in fact I would say, you are worse off!
You have placed your faith in the negative!
You believe in NOTHING except yourself! Good luck!!!!

I am an agnostic atheist. A true atheist is an illogical position. Practical atheism, is the logical extension of agnosticism. If there is no evidence for the tooth fairy, yet you cannot disprove it, and many people believe in the tooth fairy, then is it logical for you to also believe in the tooth fairy? Is it logical to, when asked, say 'I don't know whether the tooth fairy exists'? Or is it more practical to say, 'I do not believe in the tooth fairy'? In a theoretical sense, I still accept the possibility of a deity.

As I said... You reject "God because you cannot prove, there is a God!"

Thus you BELIEVE there is NO GOD!! You cannot say; "I KNOW there is not a God"!!
You also MUST BELIEVE in "Random Chance"; Man was created by chance that the right chemicals happened to come together to make man!??

Lordgrae Let me think hmmm maybe lets be conservative... "One is Seventeen TRILLION" of a chance, highly unlikely odds against it happening but you are more then willing to believe it happened never the less!!??????????

Lordgrae You believe in evolution; Man came from monkey!! But you REJECT the idea of coming from a God!!!??? Funny how you can accept you came from a LOWLY monkey but not from a higher being as: God!?? You must have very low Self-esteem??!
You are MORE then willing to accept you came from or was formed By anything OTHER then God!! After all, man had to have had a start!!

FACT: You BELIEVE in "the survival of the fittest!"

Lordgrae Because "the survival of the fittest" is the ONLY LOGICAL conclusion of your GODLESS BELIEF!!!!!

I don't know how you drag your probabilities outa your arse, but the probability of life existing is 1/1.

Godbotherers like to create their own maths and science and it usually equates quite well the their intelligence level.

I reply: And I think you are talking from the wrong end!!!
bulproof You cannot prove 1/1; NOT possible!!!!!!
The earth just happens to be the right distance from the sun!! What is the probability??
The earth has a Moon! What is the probability??
The earth has ONE moon! What is the probability??
The moon is the right size! What is the probability??
The moon is the right distance from the earth! What is the probability??
The earth is protected by bigger planets to absorb rocks and asteroids! What is the probability??
Our Sun not to big or small!! What is the probability??
The earth tilted at the right angle on its axis! What is the probability??
The earth mostly covered with liquid water! What is the probability??
The earth placed on the end of one arm of our galaxy! What is the probability??
The earth with the right amounts of O2 and other gasses!!!
Etc..

The odds are not in favor of life as we know it!!! All this above and much more all had to come together, take anything away and life as we know it is out of the question!
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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2/4/2014 10:43:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/4/2014 10:26:49 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/4/2014 10:02:41 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/4/2014 4:07:21 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/4/2014 2:09:16 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
You TRUST in yourself and your BELIEFS!!!!!

Yes I do. However, merely having a belief does not mean that belief is invalid. Not all beliefs are equal. I believe in gravity. Now, this is supported by all evidence, observable, theoretical, and measurable. So this belief, while it is a belief, is founded in evidence.

!! You are no better off in your BELIEFS in fact I would say, you are worse off!
You have placed your faith in the negative!
You believe in NOTHING except yourself! Good luck!!!!

I am an agnostic atheist. A true atheist is an illogical position. Practical atheism, is the logical extension of agnosticism. If there is no evidence for the tooth fairy, yet you cannot disprove it, and many people believe in the tooth fairy, then is it logical for you to also believe in the tooth fairy? Is it logical to, when asked, say 'I don't know whether the tooth fairy exists'? Or is it more practical to say, 'I do not believe in the tooth fairy'? In a theoretical sense, I still accept the possibility of a deity.

As I said... You reject "God because you cannot prove, there is a God!"

Thus you BELIEVE there is NO GOD!! You cannot say; "I KNOW there is not a God"!!
You also MUST BELIEVE in "Random Chance"; Man was created by chance that the right chemicals happened to come together to make man!??

Lordgrae Let me think hmmm maybe lets be conservative... "One is Seventeen TRILLION" of a chance, highly unlikely odds against it happening but you are more then willing to believe it happened never the less!!??????????

Lordgrae You believe in evolution; Man came from monkey!! But you REJECT the idea of coming from a God!!!??? Funny how you can accept you came from a LOWLY monkey but not from a higher being as: God!?? You must have very low Self-esteem??!
You are MORE then willing to accept you came from or was formed By anything OTHER then God!! After all, man had to have had a start!!

FACT: You BELIEVE in "the survival of the fittest!"

Lordgrae Because "the survival of the fittest" is the ONLY LOGICAL conclusion of your GODLESS BELIEF!!!!!

I don't know how you drag your probabilities outa your arse, but the probability of life existing is 1/1.

Godbotherers like to create their own maths and science and it usually equates quite well the their intelligence level.

I reply: And I think you are talking from the wrong end!!!
bulproof You cannot prove 1/1; NOT possible!!!!!!
The earth just happens to be the right distance from the sun!! What is the probability??
The earth has a Moon! What is the probability??
The earth has ONE moon! What is the probability??
The moon is the right size! What is the probability??
The moon is the right distance from the earth! What is the probability??
The earth is protected by bigger planets to absorb rocks and asteroids! What is the probability??
Our Sun not to big or small!! What is the probability??
The earth tilted at the right angle on its axis! What is the probability??
The earth mostly covered with liquid water! What is the probability??
The earth placed on the end of one arm of our galaxy! What is the probability??
The earth with the right amounts of O2 and other gasses!!!
Etc..

The odds are not in favor of life as we know it!!! All this above and much more all had to come together, take anything away and life as we know it is out of the question!
We know of ONE planet capable of supporting life, life exists on that ONE planet.
Ergo 1/1.
Try again dumbo.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Lordgrae
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2/4/2014 11:50:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
So say you: Not really. I have empathy. I can derive empathy from the necessity of the pack. Without the pack, my quality of life would be lower, so I have a desire to strengthen the pack (society) to benefit myself. Empathy derives the rest of our morals

I didn't check to see if you copied and pasted this from me, but if you didn't, this properly recapitulates what I said.

I reply: If you evolved as you truly believe, then you also BELIEVE man is the top of the evolving!

No. All creatures evolved to be best suited for their habitats. Some animals around the time humans started forming societies and tools could be declared as just as intelligent as humans, but never evolved to have the hand that we did, because it was not beneficial for their niche. We just happened to evolve with the perfect combination of the hand and the one of the few species with higher intelligence.

You must ALSO believe your genes (DNA) must keep evolving; Or you will be forced to reject evolution all together!

You completely misunderstand evolution. The genes in my body won't change unless we manipulate them. However, if I have children, that generation will be slightly different then my generation. The differences will be slight, and overshadowed by the more obvious differences of personality, hormones, and observable genes that vary from person to person. Some people claim that humans have stopped evolving, because there is no natural pressure that weeds out the weakest. This explains why certain dominant, yet inferior genes can remain in the gene pool, and why people with down's syndrome and severe autism get to live. I do not object to this system of people born with inferior genes getting to live. As a homosexual, my benefit in a society that focuses on evolution would be to decrease the population by not reproducing. In this kind of society, that function would become unnecessary. Evolution is not a means to explain morality. Evolution merely explains what happened.

Lordgrae With this thought in mind.. You must BELIEVE for the sake of evolution in "the survival of the fittest" weed out the weak for the betterment of the whole!

I point out the Hitlers in the world, this is what it leads towards!!!

First of all, Godwin's law. By bringing Hitler into the discussion, you have provoked an unnecessary emotional reaction. As someone who comes from a 100% pure Eastern European Jewish bloodline, I must say that you should not have brought this up. However, I will still address it.

I see two problems with Hitler's understanding of evolution, and it seems to be similar to the problems you face with understanding it. These misunderstandings are not uncommon, mostly among those who reject evolution, but also among people who are white nationalists, but they are misunderstandings nonetheless.

1. Hitler was involved in Eugenics, the study of races. Basically, it said one race (usually Caucasians) are superior to all of the other races. This is not a part of evolution. The amount of genes you share with a person of a different race is almost negligible from the gene differences between you and a person of your race, (Provided they do not come from a similar region as you, then you will see more then skin pigmentation differences in genes, but also they will tend to have similar recessive diseases, eye color, hair color, and many other small, and unimportant things). Real genetics shows us that the human race is very similar, and our neurological functions differ only from person to person, and cannot be attributed to race.

2, Social Darwinism. This was another popular Victorian concept. Taken to it's extreme, it is an awful idea. It was actually used a lot in the business world to describe how big businesses can get rid of the other ones, and subjugate the poor. The name might make it sound like it is the derivation of evolution, and for a while it was mostly evolutionists who followed it, it has nothing to do with evolution. Now it is mostly just something capitalists and white nationalists talk about. Evolution can tell us where we get our morals from (pack mentality, benefit to group), but the principles of evolution are not supposed to be taken as morality. This is the problem with religious people. They get their morals from the same place they get creation, so they cannot understand when we do not do the same.

Kill the deformed, the retarded, the old and young, the weak, the poor etc! You will say "hogwash".. BUT you will have to deny all LOGIC to deny I am right!

We have a society that does not do those things, because we have empathy. We prick ourselves with a needle accidentally, and we feel pain. We know that everyone else is very similar to us, and we can conclude that they would probably not like getting jabbed with a needle, and since they provide for us, we have a benefit to not hurting others. Then, we as a society extrapolate this to everyone, even those who do not provide, because we have excess resources to do so.

Actually, it was the religious who subjugated the poor. They were the ones that told the medieval serfs that if they didn't ask for anything more in this life, then they would get heaven in the next life.

And we have a vested interest in the old. We can respect them, because we know that we are here because of them. We care for them, and we know that if we do, in turn we will be cared for.

FACT IS: You are no better then an animal, as you point out (above) why do you insist that being an animal is such a bad thing.

I point out You are as animals are and no better, because you are more then willing to admit you are NO better then an animal!! All Atheists must be willing to accept they are no better then a pig, dog sheep or snail! Just lucky to be more evolved then the animal below!

I am lucky to be a more intelligent species. However, why is being an animal so bad? Many animals are tribal, many animals play, mate, have fun, and form complex hierarchies just like we do. The only difference is, we have better tech. Some animals care for their young, and others will mourn a death.

QUESTION: How was it everything first was created if you believe Random Chance or Evaluation, you must also be able to point out, Evolved from what!?
Evolved from NOTHING makes NOTHING!!

Evolution only describes a process of change from the first organism, to now. Any further back, and you venture into things currently debated in the field of Abiogenesis. However, I assumed you wouldn't know that evolution doesn't describe the beginning of everything.

I don't expect you to answer from what it first started from, I DO expect you to post the LOGIC of evolution coming from nothing with out first something to create the something out of nothing!

How come your deity gets to escape the logic you just employed? If nothing can't cause something, then there needs to be a cause for your god. Or do you make an exception for your god, but not for the universe?

If there had to be a first cause, then what makes more sense. A complex, super powerful deity, or a single energetic event? Surely the more compex deity demands an explanation past, 'he's eternal'. That phrase is a complete rejection of your burden of proof.

YOU CAN'T!!!!!

Not to rub it in, but I can. I will also rub my nipple while I type this shirtless.

>>>> But still you Illogically reject God! <<<<

Lordgrae You are more then willing to accept the Illogically IMPOSSIBLE as a truth!!
Just to reject the LOGICAL conclusion, there is a God.
To YOU A Omnipotent God is a lie!
And a Omnipotent God can be the ONLY answer to the question.. "How did it all first begin!?"

*Y
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved