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The Mind of an Atheist

Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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2/8/2014 4:49:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hello I'm the mind of an atheist.

I believe there is no absolute morality. I absolutely believe this. I believe all humans are valuable, but that's just an opinion that I hold to absolutely.

I don't believe in God/s, but I hate them.

Religious people are sheep, but I follow the agnostic atheist position in Dawkin's the God Delusion. I basically follow all the atheist books I've read.

I don't believe in anything unscientific, which means I don't believe in philosophy, logic, beliefs, or even atheism itself, but that's okay because I'm an atheist.

I claim there is no higher power, however the theist is still the only person with the burden of proof here, because god is a flying spaghetti monster pegasus great joo-joo at the top of the mountain ha ha ha.
XLAV
Posts: 13,704
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2/8/2014 6:31:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hello, I'm the mind of a theist.

I believe in a magic fairy created the universe. I believe the magic fairy is smart and can be anywhere at anytime he wants. I thank my parents and teachers for brainwashing me with fairy tales when I was still a kid. I too will brainwash my kids with fairy tales as well.

I believe in the magic fairy because I want to go to heaven. If I don't, I will go to hell and I don't want that!

Atheist people are closed minded because they follow science and reason. I am right because I follow a totally legit book called the Bible, that was written 2000 years ago.

I don't believe in other religions, because my masters said so. I don't know anything about their religion so their religion is false and stupid.

I believe in the magic fairy because a book from 2000 years ago said there is a magic fairy. I believe in the 2000 year old book because the magic fairy said its true

I claim there is a magic fairy, however the atheist should also have the burden of proof, because they can't prove there is no magic fairy!
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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2/8/2014 9:52:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 4:49:50 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
Hello I'm the mind of an atheist.

What you describe, which is still incorrect, is more of an anti-theist position, and not an atheist. An atheist only believes that there is no god. No other positions are specified.

I believe there is no absolute morality. I absolutely believe this. I believe all humans are valuable, but that's just an opinion that I hold to absolutely.

I think you meant objective for the first one. And yes, there is no absolute morality. Humans having value is not a moral stance, it is simply a utilitarian stance. Yes, all people have the capability to provide something, and those who can't are outweighed by those who can, making them worthwhile.

There is not set of laws that can capture the grey area in morality. This is why we do not prescribe to a set of laws that say, ________ crime always gets _________ punishment. We look at motive.
We treat someone who kills for payment very differently from someone who commits voluntary/involuntary euthanasia, or a murder of passion.
We treat someone who hides in the bushes and jumps out, and rapes a passerby very different then if two adults are in a car and they are making out, and one of them goes to have sex, but the other says no, and that person forces sex anyway.

These crimes are very different. Something can be almost always wrong (and we can determine right and wrong by empathy and , and still we can still say that the same crime is less wrong under different circumstances. Morality is a grey area.

I don't believe in God/s, but I hate them.

Again. This is not a position of an atheist. This is the position of an anti-theist. And it isn't hatred. I don't 'hate' Voldemort. I don't 'hate' Smaug. I just think that these characters display the characteristics of being @$$holes.

Religious people are sheep, but I follow the agnostic atheist position in Dawkin's the God Delusion. I basically follow all the atheist books I've read.

Now this is just ridiculous. I have read some of his writings, and listened to some of his debates, but I still do not agree with everything he says. I find that sometimes his hatred of Islam goes into racism a little bit, but for the most part, he argues things that I already affirm. I think whatever I want, but I will change my position when someone argues it well. Dawkins shows his positions well, and has convinced me sometimes, because he supports his arguments with evidence. I listen to the contradictions, and occasionally they bring me back to a position of no opinion, or will convince me otherwise. I am a slave to good arguments.

I don't believe in anything unscientific, which means I don't believe in philosophy, logic, beliefs, or even atheism itself, but that's okay because I'm an atheist.

What? These are clearly able to be observed. We can observe them as concepts we created. We can clearly see all of these concepts used and referenced by people, which makes them exist as they are explained, because these concepts are not meant to be anything greater.

I have trouble explaining things. I will try once more.

The concepts themselves define a concept used by society to describe something complicated. beliefs, logic and philosophy are difficult terms to define. However, they clearly exist, because we use these concepts. We discuss morality, and philosophy is the discussion of morality. Therefore, philosophy exists. Logic is a term defining how we use pattern recognition and past knowledge and extrapolate it. We use logic to determine that 'there has only ever been gravity : therefore, it is okay to assume that gravity is a constant in an experiment'. Since we used it, we showed that it exists. Beliefs clearly exist. Everyone has them. I have the belief that there are no monsters under my bed. Maybe.

I claim there is no higher power, however the theist is still the only person with the burden of proof here, because god is a flying spaghetti monster pegasus great joo-joo at the top of the mountain ha ha ha.

This is not the position of an atheist. The position of a real-life atheist, is that 'agnosticism is true. We cannot prove or disprove a deity. However, the absence of evidence for the negative, is not evidence for the positive. Since the positive has not proven itself, it is the logical stance to take the negative until otherwise proven.'

The use of the magical unicorn and the flying spaghetti monster shows how ridiculous it is to accept the positive as a real possibility just because the negative cannot be proven.

I get the feeling that these arguments are coming from the Ray Comfort of atheists.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
Romanii
Posts: 4,851
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2/8/2014 9:57:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 6:31:45 AM, XLAV wrote:
Hello, I'm the mind of a theist.

I believe in a magic fairy created the universe. I believe the magic fairy is smart and can be anywhere at anytime he wants. I thank my parents and teachers for brainwashing me with fairy tales when I was still a kid. I too will brainwash my kids with fairy tales as well.

I believe in the magic fairy because I want to go to heaven. If I don't, I will go to hell and I don't want that!

Atheist people are closed minded because they follow science and reason. I am right because I follow a totally legit book called the Bible, that was written 2000 years ago.

I don't believe in other religions, because my masters said so. I don't know anything about their religion so their religion is false and stupid.

I believe in the magic fairy because a book from 2000 years ago said there is a magic fairy. I believe in the 2000 year old book because the magic fairy said its true

I claim there is a magic fairy, however the atheist should also have the burden of proof, because they can't prove there is no magic fairy!

LOL Good one.

I hope you don't actually think all religious people are this stupid, though...
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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2/8/2014 9:58:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Yo. I'm the mind of an American Christian.

I think that if my views aren't imposed on others, I'm being oppressed.

I think that people trying to have a rational discussion about religion is offensive.

I think that clasping my hands together and talking to a magic bearded dude is normal.

I think that by not clasping one's hands together and talking to a magic bearded dude causes school shootings, drug use and teen pregnancies.

I argue that god has objective morality, but when someone shows me the terrible things in the old testament, I claim that 'it was a different time with different morals'.

I think the bible is the infallible word of god, yet I probably have never read it.

I think that evolution is wrong, because if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

I'm going to go oppress gays and claim that they are oppressing me! Bye!
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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2/8/2014 10:00:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 9:57:25 AM, Romanii wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:31:45 AM, XLAV wrote:
Hello, I'm the mind of a theist.

I believe in a magic fairy created the universe. I believe the magic fairy is smart and can be anywhere at anytime he wants. I thank my parents and teachers for brainwashing me with fairy tales when I was still a kid. I too will brainwash my kids with fairy tales as well.

I believe in the magic fairy because I want to go to heaven. If I don't, I will go to hell and I don't want that!

Atheist people are closed minded because they follow science and reason. I am right because I follow a totally legit book called the Bible, that was written 2000 years ago.

I don't believe in other religions, because my masters said so. I don't know anything about their religion so their religion is false and stupid.

I believe in the magic fairy because a book from 2000 years ago said there is a magic fairy. I believe in the 2000 year old book because the magic fairy said its true

I claim there is a magic fairy, however the atheist should also have the burden of proof, because they can't prove there is no magic fairy!

LOL Good one.

I hope you don't actually think all religious people are this stupid, though...

Maybe not all.... However, Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron make me think twice about that.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/8/2014 10:03:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 4:49:50 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
Hello I'm the mind of an atheist.

I believe there is no absolute morality. I absolutely believe this. I believe all humans are valuable, but that's just an opinion that I hold to absolutely.

I don't believe in God/s, but I hate them.

Religious people are sheep, but I follow the agnostic atheist position in Dawkin's the God Delusion. I basically follow all the atheist books I've read.

I don't believe in anything unscientific, which means I don't believe in philosophy, logic, beliefs, or even atheism itself, but that's okay because I'm an atheist.

I claim there is no higher power, however the theist is still the only person with the burden of proof here, because god is a flying spaghetti monster pegasus great joo-joo at the top of the mountain ha ha ha.

I know that we are nothing but invisible vibrations called energy. Many physicists today are beginning to understand this fact. However, they do not know how all this energy came to be. I happen to know exactly how energy was made.
DudeStop
Posts: 1,278
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2/8/2014 10:07:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 4:49:50 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
Hello I'm the mind of an atheist.

I believe there is no absolute morality. I absolutely believe this. I believe all humans are valuable, but that's just an opinion that I hold to absolutely.

There's morality you dope.
I don't believe in God/s, but I hate them.

I dislike religion, but I don't dislike gods.
Religious people are sheep, but I follow the agnostic atheist position in Dawkin's the God Delusion. I basically follow all the atheist books I've read.

I've never read an atheistic book you filthy mongrel.
I don't believe in anything unscientific, which means I don't believe in philosophy, logic, beliefs, or even atheism itself, but that's okay because I'm an atheist.


Wtf?
I claim there is no higher power, however the theist is still the only person with the burden of proof here, because god is a flying spaghetti monster pegasus great joo-joo at the top of the mountain ha ha ha.
No...

Wow, you have proven that there is negative intelligence.
DudeStop
Posts: 1,278
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2/8/2014 10:10:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 9:58:59 AM, Lordgrae wrote:
Yo. I'm the mind of an American Christian.

I think that if my views aren't imposed on others, I'm being oppressed.

I think that people trying to have a rational discussion about religion is offensive.

I think that clasping my hands together and talking to a magic bearded dude is normal.

I think that by not clasping one's hands together and talking to a magic bearded dude causes school shootings, drug use and teen pregnancies.

I argue that god has objective morality, but when someone shows me the terrible things in the old testament, I claim that 'it was a different time with different morals'.

I think the bible is the infallible word of god, yet I probably have never read it.

I think that evolution is wrong, because if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

I'm going to go oppress gays and claim that they are oppressing me! Bye!

Stop oppressing me!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/8/2014 10:27:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 9:58:59 AM, Lordgrae wrote:
Yo. I'm the mind of an American Christian.

I think that if my views aren't imposed on others, I'm being oppressed.

I think that people trying to have a rational discussion about religion is offensive.

I think that clasping my hands together and talking to a magic bearded dude is normal.

I think that by not clasping one's hands together and talking to a magic bearded dude causes school shootings, drug use and teen pregnancies.

I argue that god has objective morality, but when someone shows me the terrible things in the old testament, I claim that 'it was a different time with different morals'.

I think the bible is the infallible word of god, yet I probably have never read it.

I think that evolution is wrong, because if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

I'm going to go oppress gays and claim that they are oppressing me! Bye!

Yo, I'm a true saint of our invisible Creator. I know for a fact that the Bible is NOT the true Word of God and that most people who have read it have been totally deceived of our true existence in the mind of our Creator.

Evolution and religion were used by God to deceive His people but at the same time, He used religion and all sciences to help us saints understand where we came from and where we are going in the future. God uses the illusions of this world to use as analogies to teach us saints with. Without the visible world to use as analogies of our invisible existence within His mind, we wouldn't be able to understand that we're only vibrations called energy.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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2/8/2014 10:30:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 6:31:45 AM, XLAV wrote:
Hello, I'm the mind of a theist.

I believe in a magic fairy created the universe. I believe the magic fairy is smart and can be anywhere at anytime he wants. I thank my parents and teachers for brainwashing me with fairy tales when I was still a kid. I too will brainwash my kids with fairy tales as well.

I believe in the magic fairy because I want to go to heaven. If I don't, I will go to hell and I don't want that!

Atheist people are closed minded because they follow science and reason. I am right because I follow a totally legit book called the Bible, that was written 2000 years ago.

I don't believe in other religions, because my masters said so. I don't know anything about their religion so their religion is false and stupid.

I believe in the magic fairy because a book from 2000 years ago said there is a magic fairy. I believe in the 2000 year old book because the magic fairy said its true

I claim there is a magic fairy, however the atheist should also have the burden of proof, because they can't prove there is no magic fairy!

Actually, if you truly followed science and reason, you would probably be a theist. I probably wouldn't have said that a couple of months ago, but I think it is true now.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/8/2014 10:42:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 10:30:38 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:31:45 AM, XLAV wrote:
Hello, I'm the mind of a theist.

I believe in a magic fairy created the universe. I believe the magic fairy is smart and can be anywhere at anytime he wants. I thank my parents and teachers for brainwashing me with fairy tales when I was still a kid. I too will brainwash my kids with fairy tales as well.

I believe in the magic fairy because I want to go to heaven. If I don't, I will go to hell and I don't want that!

Atheist people are closed minded because they follow science and reason. I am right because I follow a totally legit book called the Bible, that was written 2000 years ago.

I don't believe in other religions, because my masters said so. I don't know anything about their religion so their religion is false and stupid.

I believe in the magic fairy because a book from 2000 years ago said there is a magic fairy. I believe in the 2000 year old book because the magic fairy said its true

I claim there is a magic fairy, however the atheist should also have the burden of proof, because they can't prove there is no magic fairy!

Actually, if you truly followed science and reason, you would probably be a theist. I probably wouldn't have said that a couple of months ago, but I think it is true now.

Most religious people believe in their false deities and false gods. They have no idea that we're created as invisible vibrations called energy. In fact, whenever I bring up the word "energy" most of them ask me where that's written in the Bible. I tell them that our invisible Creator took certain people and had them leave their false religious beliefs to pursue the Truth, which is actually our invisible existence as vibrations, which are the thoughts of our Creator.

Amos 4
13: For lo, he who forms the mountains, and creates the wind, and declares to man what is his thought;

All our thoughts are our created existence within the mind of our Creator. This is why St. Paul wrote this;

Acts 17:
24: The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man,
25: nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all men life and breath and everything.
26: And he made from one every nation of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their habitation,
27: that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after him and find him. Yet he is not far from each one of us,
28: for ..In him we live and move and have our being'; as even some of your poets have said, ..For we are indeed his offspring.'

We're nothing but God's dreams.
XLAV
Posts: 13,704
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2/8/2014 12:23:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 9:57:25 AM, Romanii wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:31:45 AM, XLAV wrote:
Hello, I'm the mind of a theist.

I believe in a magic fairy created the universe. I believe the magic fairy is smart and can be anywhere at anytime he wants. I thank my parents and teachers for brainwashing me with fairy tales when I was still a kid. I too will brainwash my kids with fairy tales as well.

I believe in the magic fairy because I want to go to heaven. If I don't, I will go to hell and I don't want that!

Atheist people are closed minded because they follow science and reason. I am right because I follow a totally legit book called the Bible, that was written 2000 years ago.

I don't believe in other religions, because my masters said so. I don't know anything about their religion so their religion is false and stupid.

I believe in the magic fairy because a book from 2000 years ago said there is a magic fairy. I believe in the 2000 year old book because the magic fairy said its true

I claim there is a magic fairy, however the atheist should also have the burden of proof, because they can't prove there is no magic fairy!

LOL Good one.

I hope you don't actually think all religious people are this stupid, though...
I don't. Unlike dudestop, I respect all religions.

If your religion makes you happy and doesn't interfere on other people's right than I'm fine with it.
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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2/8/2014 12:36:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 10:07:08 AM, DudeStop wrote:
At 2/8/2014 4:49:50 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
Hello I'm the mind of an atheist.

I believe there is no absolute morality. I absolutely believe this. I believe all humans are valuable, but that's just an opinion that I hold to absolutely.

There's morality you dope.
I don't believe in God/s, but I hate them.

I dislike religion, but I don't dislike gods.
Religious people are sheep, but I follow the agnostic atheist position in Dawkin's the God Delusion. I basically follow all the atheist books I've read.

I've never read an atheistic book you filthy mongrel.
I don't believe in anything unscientific, which means I don't believe in philosophy, logic, beliefs, or even atheism itself, but that's okay because I'm an atheist.


Wtf?
I claim there is no higher power, however the theist is still the only person with the burden of proof here, because god is a flying spaghetti monster pegasus great joo-joo at the top of the mountain ha ha ha.
No...

Wow, you have proven that there is negative intelligence.

ROFL. (that means "rolling on the floor laughing;" right?)
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
Romanii
Posts: 4,851
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2/8/2014 12:42:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 10:30:38 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:31:45 AM, XLAV wrote:
Hello, I'm the mind of a theist.

I believe in a magic fairy created the universe. I believe the magic fairy is smart and can be anywhere at anytime he wants. I thank my parents and teachers for brainwashing me with fairy tales when I was still a kid. I too will brainwash my kids with fairy tales as well.

I believe in the magic fairy because I want to go to heaven. If I don't, I will go to hell and I don't want that!

Atheist people are closed minded because they follow science and reason. I am right because I follow a totally legit book called the Bible, that was written 2000 years ago.

I don't believe in other religions, because my masters said so. I don't know anything about their religion so their religion is false and stupid.

I believe in the magic fairy because a book from 2000 years ago said there is a magic fairy. I believe in the 2000 year old book because the magic fairy said its true

I claim there is a magic fairy, however the atheist should also have the burden of proof, because they can't prove there is no magic fairy!

Actually, if you truly followed science and reason, you would probably be a theist. I probably wouldn't have said that a couple of months ago, but I think it is true now.

Woah... I think I remember you being an atheist when I joined this site a few months back...
Romanii
Posts: 4,851
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2/8/2014 12:43:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 9:58:59 AM, Lordgrae wrote:
Yo. I'm the mind of an American Fundamentalist Christian.

I think that if my views aren't imposed on others, I'm being oppressed.

I think that people trying to have a rational discussion about religion is offensive.

I think that clasping my hands together and talking to a magic bearded dude is normal.

I think that by not clasping one's hands together and talking to a magic bearded dude causes school shootings, drug use and teen pregnancies.

I argue that god has objective morality, but when someone shows me the terrible things in the old testament, I claim that 'it was a different time with different morals'.

I think the bible is the infallible word of god, yet I probably have never read it.

I think that evolution is wrong, because if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

I'm going to go oppress gays and claim that they are oppressing me! Bye!

Fixed.
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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2/8/2014 12:48:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hello; I'm the mind of a young earth creationist.

I think that evolution is a satanic hoax.

I think that the earth is only 6,000 years old despite radiometric dating, ice core dating, fossils, and geology because those are satan's doing.

I think that every square centimeter of the world was covered by 10 km of water even though that much water doesn't exist and there is no place for the water to go.

I think that 8 people who had never built a boat before built an ark that housed sixteen of every "kind" of animal on the planet whose size wasn't exceeded until steel boats in the early 20th century were invented.

I argue that evolution is inappropriate to teach to children because telling them they come from monkeys lowers their self esteem.

I think the bible gives a literal history of the world correct in every way despite all the enormous errors and the fact that it wasn't written down until 4000 years after god created the earth.

I think that evolution is wrong, because if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?

I'm going to go change the name to creation science to turn it into science so it will be taught in classrooms. Watch for me on the news!
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
DudeStop
Posts: 1,278
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2/8/2014 12:56:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 12:36:43 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/8/2014 10:07:08 AM, DudeStop wrote:
At 2/8/2014 4:49:50 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
Hello I'm the mind of an atheist.

I believe there is no absolute morality. I absolutely believe this. I believe all humans are valuable, but that's just an opinion that I hold to absolutely.

There's morality you dope.
I don't believe in God/s, but I hate them.

I dislike religion, but I don't dislike gods.
Religious people are sheep, but I follow the agnostic atheist position in Dawkin's the God Delusion. I basically follow all the atheist books I've read.

I've never read an atheistic book you filthy mongrel.
I don't believe in anything unscientific, which means I don't believe in philosophy, logic, beliefs, or even atheism itself, but that's okay because I'm an atheist.


Wtf?
I claim there is no higher power, however the theist is still the only person with the burden of proof here, because god is a flying spaghetti monster pegasus great joo-joo at the top of the mountain ha ha ha.
No...

Wow, you have proven that there is negative intelligence.

ROFL. (that means "rolling on the floor laughing;" right?)

Oh Ya.
DudeStop
Posts: 1,278
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2/8/2014 12:58:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 10:30:38 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:31:45 AM, XLAV wrote:
Hello, I'm the mind of a theist.

I believe in a magic fairy created the universe. I believe the magic fairy is smart and can be anywhere at anytime he wants. I thank my parents and teachers for brainwashing me with fairy tales when I was still a kid. I too will brainwash my kids with fairy tales as well.

I believe in the magic fairy because I want to go to heaven. If I don't, I will go to hell and I don't want that!

Atheist people are closed minded because they follow science and reason. I am right because I follow a totally legit book called the Bible, that was written 2000 years ago.

I don't believe in other religions, because my masters said so. I don't know anything about their religion so their religion is false and stupid.

I believe in the magic fairy because a book from 2000 years ago said there is a magic fairy. I believe in the 2000 year old book because the magic fairy said its true

I claim there is a magic fairy, however the atheist should also have the burden of proof, because they can't prove there is no magic fairy!

Actually, if you truly followed science and reason, you would probably be a theist. I probably wouldn't have said that a couple of months ago, but I think it is true now.

Are you an agnostic still, or have you decided on a religion?
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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2/8/2014 1:23:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 12:58:29 PM, DudeStop wrote:
At 2/8/2014 10:30:38 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:31:45 AM, XLAV wrote:
Hello, I'm the mind of a theist.

I believe in a magic fairy created the universe. I believe the magic fairy is smart and can be anywhere at anytime he wants. I thank my parents and teachers for brainwashing me with fairy tales when I was still a kid. I too will brainwash my kids with fairy tales as well.

I believe in the magic fairy because I want to go to heaven. If I don't, I will go to hell and I don't want that!

Atheist people are closed minded because they follow science and reason. I am right because I follow a totally legit book called the Bible, that was written 2000 years ago.

I don't believe in other religions, because my masters said so. I don't know anything about their religion so their religion is false and stupid.

I believe in the magic fairy because a book from 2000 years ago said there is a magic fairy. I believe in the 2000 year old book because the magic fairy said its true

I claim there is a magic fairy, however the atheist should also have the burden of proof, because they can't prove there is no magic fairy!

Actually, if you truly followed science and reason, you would probably be a theist. I probably wouldn't have said that a couple of months ago, but I think it is true now.

Are you an agnostic still, or have you decided on a religion?

I'm not religious by any means. However, I am convinced that reality is mental, but it doesn't exists in just our contingent minds. There must be a necessary mind to ground all contingent being. For this reason, I ditched Atheism.

"The universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine." - Sir James Jeans (Physicist, Astronomer and Mathematician)

"There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." -Max Planck (Father of Quantum Theory, Nobel Prize winner)

"The stuff of the world is mind-stuff" - Sir Arthur Eddington (Astrophysicist)

I am still not convinced of any religion. I don't believe Jesus rose from the dead or anything lol
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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2/8/2014 1:38:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 1:23:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 12:58:29 PM, DudeStop wrote:
At 2/8/2014 10:30:38 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:31:45 AM, XLAV wrote:
Hello, I'm the mind of a theist.

I believe in a magic fairy created the universe. I believe the magic fairy is smart and can be anywhere at anytime he wants. I thank my parents and teachers for brainwashing me with fairy tales when I was still a kid. I too will brainwash my kids with fairy tales as well.

I believe in the magic fairy because I want to go to heaven. If I don't, I will go to hell and I don't want that!

Atheist people are closed minded because they follow science and reason. I am right because I follow a totally legit book called the Bible, that was written 2000 years ago.

I don't believe in other religions, because my masters said so. I don't know anything about their religion so their religion is false and stupid.

I believe in the magic fairy because a book from 2000 years ago said there is a magic fairy. I believe in the 2000 year old book because the magic fairy said its true

I claim there is a magic fairy, however the atheist should also have the burden of proof, because they can't prove there is no magic fairy!

Actually, if you truly followed science and reason, you would probably be a theist. I probably wouldn't have said that a couple of months ago, but I think it is true now.

Are you an agnostic still, or have you decided on a religion?

I'm not religious by any means. However, I am convinced that reality is mental, but it doesn't exists in just our contingent minds. There must be a necessary mind to ground all contingent being. For this reason, I ditched Atheism.

"The universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine." - Sir James Jeans (Physicist, Astronomer and Mathematician)

"There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." -Max Planck (Father of Quantum Theory, Nobel Prize winner)

"The stuff of the world is mind-stuff" - Sir Arthur Eddington (Astrophysicist)

I am still not convinced of any religion. I don't believe Jesus rose from the dead or anything lol

If you're talking about the delayed choice quantum eraser experiment I found a natural explanation for why an interference pattern didn't show up when we knew which slit the photon came from without a "knower" needing to be involved. The answer is: Tachyons. Tachyons are the only explanation for retrocausality and they can explain the apparent need for a conscious observer: the particles are entangled which means that when the photon hits detector 3(where it doesn't have an interference pattern) it transfers that information back in time with tachyons to the photon at detector 0 then the detector 0 photon transfers the information to the photon that will hit detector 3 determining its position before it got there. When the photon goes to detector 1 or 2 there is still a possibility that the photon will go to the other detector causing the interference pattern.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/8/2014 1:40:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 12:58:29 PM, DudeStop wrote:
At 2/8/2014 10:30:38 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:31:45 AM, XLAV wrote:
Hello, I'm the mind of a theist.

I believe in a magic fairy created the universe. I believe the magic fairy is smart and can be anywhere at anytime he wants. I thank my parents and teachers for brainwashing me with fairy tales when I was still a kid. I too will brainwash my kids with fairy tales as well.

I believe in the magic fairy because I want to go to heaven. If I don't, I will go to hell and I don't want that!

Atheist people are closed minded because they follow science and reason. I am right because I follow a totally legit book called the Bible, that was written 2000 years ago.

I don't believe in other religions, because my masters said so. I don't know anything about their religion so their religion is false and stupid.

I believe in the magic fairy because a book from 2000 years ago said there is a magic fairy. I believe in the 2000 year old book because the magic fairy said its true

I claim there is a magic fairy, however the atheist should also have the burden of proof, because they can't prove there is no magic fairy!

Actually, if you truly followed science and reason, you would probably be a theist. I probably wouldn't have said that a couple of months ago, but I think it is true now.

Are you an agnostic still, or have you decided on a religion?

People either believe there is a creator of everything or believe there isn't a creator of everything. It's obvious this person believes there is a Creator of everything. God only made prophets, saints, believers, unbelievers and ignorant people.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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2/8/2014 1:42:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 1:38:59 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:23:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 12:58:29 PM, DudeStop wrote:
At 2/8/2014 10:30:38 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:31:45 AM, XLAV wrote:
Hello, I'm the mind of a theist.

I believe in a magic fairy created the universe. I believe the magic fairy is smart and can be anywhere at anytime he wants. I thank my parents and teachers for brainwashing me with fairy tales when I was still a kid. I too will brainwash my kids with fairy tales as well.

I believe in the magic fairy because I want to go to heaven. If I don't, I will go to hell and I don't want that!

Atheist people are closed minded because they follow science and reason. I am right because I follow a totally legit book called the Bible, that was written 2000 years ago.

I don't believe in other religions, because my masters said so. I don't know anything about their religion so their religion is false and stupid.

I believe in the magic fairy because a book from 2000 years ago said there is a magic fairy. I believe in the 2000 year old book because the magic fairy said its true

I claim there is a magic fairy, however the atheist should also have the burden of proof, because they can't prove there is no magic fairy!

Actually, if you truly followed science and reason, you would probably be a theist. I probably wouldn't have said that a couple of months ago, but I think it is true now.

Are you an agnostic still, or have you decided on a religion?

I'm not religious by any means. However, I am convinced that reality is mental, but it doesn't exists in just our contingent minds. There must be a necessary mind to ground all contingent being. For this reason, I ditched Atheism.

"The universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine." - Sir James Jeans (Physicist, Astronomer and Mathematician)

"There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." -Max Planck (Father of Quantum Theory, Nobel Prize winner)

"The stuff of the world is mind-stuff" - Sir Arthur Eddington (Astrophysicist)

I am still not convinced of any religion. I don't believe Jesus rose from the dead or anything lol

If you're talking about the delayed choice quantum eraser experiment I found a natural explanation for why an interference pattern didn't show up when we knew which slit the photon came from without a "knower" needing to be involved. The answer is: Tachyons. Tachyons are the only explanation for retrocausality and they can explain the apparent need for a conscious observer: the particles are entangled which means that when the photon hits detector 3(where it doesn't have an interference pattern) it transfers that information back in time with tachyons to the photon at detector 0 then the detector 0 photon transfers the information to the photon that will hit detector 3 determining its position before it got there. When the photon goes to detector 1 or 2 there is still a possibility that the photon will go to the other detector causing the interference pattern.

I wasn't talking about the delayed choice experiment. Also, Tachyons require faster-than-light speed, which Special Relativity forbids.
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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2/8/2014 1:44:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 1:42:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:38:59 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:23:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 12:58:29 PM, DudeStop wrote:
At 2/8/2014 10:30:38 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:31:45 AM, XLAV wrote:
Hello, I'm the mind of a theist.

I believe in a magic fairy created the universe. I believe the magic fairy is smart and can be anywhere at anytime he wants. I thank my parents and teachers for brainwashing me with fairy tales when I was still a kid. I too will brainwash my kids with fairy tales as well.

I believe in the magic fairy because I want to go to heaven. If I don't, I will go to hell and I don't want that!

Atheist people are closed minded because they follow science and reason. I am right because I follow a totally legit book called the Bible, that was written 2000 years ago.

I don't believe in other religions, because my masters said so. I don't know anything about their religion so their religion is false and stupid.

I believe in the magic fairy because a book from 2000 years ago said there is a magic fairy. I believe in the 2000 year old book because the magic fairy said its true

I claim there is a magic fairy, however the atheist should also have the burden of proof, because they can't prove there is no magic fairy!

Actually, if you truly followed science and reason, you would probably be a theist. I probably wouldn't have said that a couple of months ago, but I think it is true now.

Are you an agnostic still, or have you decided on a religion?

I'm not religious by any means. However, I am convinced that reality is mental, but it doesn't exists in just our contingent minds. There must be a necessary mind to ground all contingent being. For this reason, I ditched Atheism.

"The universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine." - Sir James Jeans (Physicist, Astronomer and Mathematician)

"There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." -Max Planck (Father of Quantum Theory, Nobel Prize winner)

"The stuff of the world is mind-stuff" - Sir Arthur Eddington (Astrophysicist)

I am still not convinced of any religion. I don't believe Jesus rose from the dead or anything lol

If you're talking about the delayed choice quantum eraser experiment I found a natural explanation for why an interference pattern didn't show up when we knew which slit the photon came from without a "knower" needing to be involved. The answer is: Tachyons. Tachyons are the only explanation for retrocausality and they can explain the apparent need for a conscious observer: the particles are entangled which means that when the photon hits detector 3(where it doesn't have an interference pattern) it transfers that information back in time with tachyons to the photon at detector 0 then the detector 0 photon transfers the information to the photon that will hit detector 3 determining its position before it got there. When the photon goes to detector 1 or 2 there is still a possibility that the photon will go to the other detector causing the interference pattern.

I wasn't talking about the delayed choice experiment. Also, Tachyons require faster-than-light speed, which Special Relativity forbids.

Special relativity forbids any object to accelerate faster than light but it doesn't forbid particles that ALWAYS travel faster than light. Though really tachyons are the only possible explanation for retro-causality.
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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2/8/2014 1:44:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There is no evidence for tachyons anyway, they are, by definition a "hypothetical" particle. However, we know that knowers exist. Thus, this alternative explanation of yours is ad hoc anyway.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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2/8/2014 1:46:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 1:44:39 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:42:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:38:59 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:23:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 12:58:29 PM, DudeStop wrote:
At 2/8/2014 10:30:38 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:31:45 AM, XLAV wrote:
Hello, I'm the mind of a theist.

I believe in a magic fairy created the universe. I believe the magic fairy is smart and can be anywhere at anytime he wants. I thank my parents and teachers for brainwashing me with fairy tales when I was still a kid. I too will brainwash my kids with fairy tales as well.

I believe in the magic fairy because I want to go to heaven. If I don't, I will go to hell and I don't want that!

Atheist people are closed minded because they follow science and reason. I am right because I follow a totally legit book called the Bible, that was written 2000 years ago.

I don't believe in other religions, because my masters said so. I don't know anything about their religion so their religion is false and stupid.

I believe in the magic fairy because a book from 2000 years ago said there is a magic fairy. I believe in the 2000 year old book because the magic fairy said its true

I claim there is a magic fairy, however the atheist should also have the burden of proof, because they can't prove there is no magic fairy!

Actually, if you truly followed science and reason, you would probably be a theist. I probably wouldn't have said that a couple of months ago, but I think it is true now.

Are you an agnostic still, or have you decided on a religion?

I'm not religious by any means. However, I am convinced that reality is mental, but it doesn't exists in just our contingent minds. There must be a necessary mind to ground all contingent being. For this reason, I ditched Atheism.

"The universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine." - Sir James Jeans (Physicist, Astronomer and Mathematician)

"There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." -Max Planck (Father of Quantum Theory, Nobel Prize winner)

"The stuff of the world is mind-stuff" - Sir Arthur Eddington (Astrophysicist)

I am still not convinced of any religion. I don't believe Jesus rose from the dead or anything lol

If you're talking about the delayed choice quantum eraser experiment I found a natural explanation for why an interference pattern didn't show up when we knew which slit the photon came from without a "knower" needing to be involved. The answer is: Tachyons. Tachyons are the only explanation for retrocausality and they can explain the apparent need for a conscious observer: the particles are entangled which means that when the photon hits detector 3(where it doesn't have an interference pattern) it transfers that information back in time with tachyons to the photon at detector 0 then the detector 0 photon transfers the information to the photon that will hit detector 3 determining its position before it got there. When the photon goes to detector 1 or 2 there is still a possibility that the photon will go to the other detector causing the interference pattern.

I wasn't talking about the delayed choice experiment. Also, Tachyons require faster-than-light speed, which Special Relativity forbids.

Special relativity forbids any object to accelerate faster than light but it doesn't forbid particles that ALWAYS travel faster than light.

Either way, we have good reason to believe they can't exist

Faster-than-light 'tachyons' might be impossible after all

http://www.newscientist.com...

Though really tachyons are the only possible explanation for retro-causality.

No they aren't, "knowers" explain retro-causality just fine.
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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2/8/2014 1:56:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 1:46:54 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:44:39 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:42:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:38:59 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:23:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 12:58:29 PM, DudeStop wrote:
At 2/8/2014 10:30:38 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:31:45 AM, XLAV wrote:
Hello, I'm the mind of a theist.

I believe in a magic fairy created the universe. I believe the magic fairy is smart and can be anywhere at anytime he wants. I thank my parents and teachers for brainwashing me with fairy tales when I was still a kid. I too will brainwash my kids with fairy tales as well.

I believe in the magic fairy because I want to go to heaven. If I don't, I will go to hell and I don't want that!

Atheist people are closed minded because they follow science and reason. I am right because I follow a totally legit book called the Bible, that was written 2000 years ago.

I don't believe in other religions, because my masters said so. I don't know anything about their religion so their religion is false and stupid.

I believe in the magic fairy because a book from 2000 years ago said there is a magic fairy. I believe in the 2000 year old book because the magic fairy said its true

I claim there is a magic fairy, however the atheist should also have the burden of proof, because they can't prove there is no magic fairy!

Actually, if you truly followed science and reason, you would probably be a theist. I probably wouldn't have said that a couple of months ago, but I think it is true now.

Are you an agnostic still, or have you decided on a religion?

I'm not religious by any means. However, I am convinced that reality is mental, but it doesn't exists in just our contingent minds. There must be a necessary mind to ground all contingent being. For this reason, I ditched Atheism.

"The universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine." - Sir James Jeans (Physicist, Astronomer and Mathematician)

"There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." -Max Planck (Father of Quantum Theory, Nobel Prize winner)

"The stuff of the world is mind-stuff" - Sir Arthur Eddington (Astrophysicist)

I am still not convinced of any religion. I don't believe Jesus rose from the dead or anything lol

If you're talking about the delayed choice quantum eraser experiment I found a natural explanation for why an interference pattern didn't show up when we knew which slit the photon came from without a "knower" needing to be involved. The answer is: Tachyons. Tachyons are the only explanation for retrocausality and they can explain the apparent need for a conscious observer: the particles are entangled which means that when the photon hits detector 3(where it doesn't have an interference pattern) it transfers that information back in time with tachyons to the photon at detector 0 then the detector 0 photon transfers the information to the photon that will hit detector 3 determining its position before it got there. When the photon goes to detector 1 or 2 there is still a possibility that the photon will go to the other detector causing the interference pattern.

I wasn't talking about the delayed choice experiment. Also, Tachyons require faster-than-light speed, which Special Relativity forbids.

Special relativity forbids any object to accelerate faster than light but it doesn't forbid particles that ALWAYS travel faster than light.

Either way, we have good reason to believe they can't exist

Faster-than-light 'tachyons' might be impossible after all

http://www.newscientist.com...

They MIGHT be impossible but as of now it's just a mathematically sound mathematical model that needs to be tested.

Though really tachyons are the only possible explanation for retro-causality.

No they aren't, "knowers" explain retro-causality just fine.
However tachyons would make more sense than consciousness to be the explanation. Anyways tachyons have negative mass so the only way to detect them is to look for an expansion of space. I've actually come up with a way to do that: http://www.debate.org...
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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2/8/2014 2:15:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 1:56:21 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:46:54 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:44:39 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:42:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:38:59 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:23:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 12:58:29 PM, DudeStop wrote:
At 2/8/2014 10:30:38 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:31:45 AM, XLAV wrote:
Hello, I'm the mind of a theist.

I believe in a magic fairy created the universe. I believe the magic fairy is smart and can be anywhere at anytime he wants. I thank my parents and teachers for brainwashing me with fairy tales when I was still a kid. I too will brainwash my kids with fairy tales as well.

I believe in the magic fairy because I want to go to heaven. If I don't, I will go to hell and I don't want that!

Atheist people are closed minded because they follow science and reason. I am right because I follow a totally legit book called the Bible, that was written 2000 years ago.

I don't believe in other religions, because my masters said so. I don't know anything about their religion so their religion is false and stupid.

I believe in the magic fairy because a book from 2000 years ago said there is a magic fairy. I believe in the 2000 year old book because the magic fairy said its true

I claim there is a magic fairy, however the atheist should also have the burden of proof, because they can't prove there is no magic fairy!

Actually, if you truly followed science and reason, you would probably be a theist. I probably wouldn't have said that a couple of months ago, but I think it is true now.

Are you an agnostic still, or have you decided on a religion?

I'm not religious by any means. However, I am convinced that reality is mental, but it doesn't exists in just our contingent minds. There must be a necessary mind to ground all contingent being. For this reason, I ditched Atheism.

"The universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a great machine." - Sir James Jeans (Physicist, Astronomer and Mathematician)

"There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force... We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter." -Max Planck (Father of Quantum Theory, Nobel Prize winner)

"The stuff of the world is mind-stuff" - Sir Arthur Eddington (Astrophysicist)

I am still not convinced of any religion. I don't believe Jesus rose from the dead or anything lol

If you're talking about the delayed choice quantum eraser experiment I found a natural explanation for why an interference pattern didn't show up when we knew which slit the photon came from without a "knower" needing to be involved. The answer is: Tachyons. Tachyons are the only explanation for retrocausality and they can explain the apparent need for a conscious observer: the particles are entangled which means that when the photon hits detector 3(where it doesn't have an interference pattern) it transfers that information back in time with tachyons to the photon at detector 0 then the detector 0 photon transfers the information to the photon that will hit detector 3 determining its position before it got there. When the photon goes to detector 1 or 2 there is still a possibility that the photon will go to the other detector causing the interference pattern.

I wasn't talking about the delayed choice experiment. Also, Tachyons require faster-than-light speed, which Special Relativity forbids.

Special relativity forbids any object to accelerate faster than light but it doesn't forbid particles that ALWAYS travel faster than light.

Either way, we have good reason to believe they can't exist

Faster-than-light 'tachyons' might be impossible after all

http://www.newscientist.com...

They MIGHT be impossible but as of now it's just a mathematically sound mathematical model that needs to be tested.

No. If you actually read the article, they give good reasons why they are fundamentally impossible.


Though really tachyons are the only possible explanation for retro-causality.

No they aren't, "knowers" explain retro-causality just fine.
However tachyons would make more sense than consciousness to be the explanation.

No they don't, because we don't even have any evidence they exist lol We know consciousness exists. So, consciousness is a much better explanation.

Anyways tachyons have negative mass so the only way to detect them is to look for an expansion of space. I've actually come up with a way to do that: http://www.debate.org...