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God's existence

theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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2/8/2014 12:22:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
ARGUMENT FROM EVIL:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
3. An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

The standard answer to this is that Evil is the absence of God.

There are two problems with that answer:
1. God is omnipresent; he's everywhere and everywhen. There's nowhere that he isn't.
2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Evil is contradictory to the nature of an omnibenevolent being but GOD CREATED EVIL AND SAID SO!!!!!!! THAT IS A CONTRADICTION!
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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2/8/2014 1:10:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
How about you take a little responsibility? And then maybe we all might, and then maybe we all might add up to God. And there goes the "Argument from Evil" - unless you'd like to rename it the "Argument from Myself as Evil," that is?
Romanii
Posts: 4,864
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2/8/2014 1:14:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 12:22:07 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
ARGUMENT FROM EVIL:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
3. An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

There is a flaw with #6:

God isn't an interventionalist.
Humans are the creators of all evil. Not God.
It isn't his job to rescue us from every plight we fall into.
If you've ever heard of authoritative parenting, it's somewhat like that.
(http://psychology.about.com...)


The standard answer to this is that Evil is the absence of God.

That answer is invalid because of the first reason you go on to state:


There are two problems with that answer:
1. God is omnipresent; he's everywhere and everywhen. There's nowhere that he isn't
2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

The Bible isn't the word of God.


Evil is contradictory to the nature of an omnibenevolent being but GOD CREATED EVIL AND SAID SO!!!!!!! THAT IS A CONTRADICTION!

Nope. Humans made evil.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/8/2014 1:18:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 12:22:07 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
ARGUMENT FROM EVIL:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
3. An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

The standard answer to this is that Evil is the absence of God.

There are two problems with that answer:
1. God is omnipresent; he's everywhere and everywhen. There's nowhere that he isn't.
2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Evil is contradictory to the nature of an omnibenevolent being but GOD CREATED EVIL AND SAID SO!!!!!!! THAT IS A CONTRADICTION!

God created all good and evil because He's the Creator of everything.
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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2/8/2014 1:21:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 1:18:41 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/8/2014 12:22:07 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
ARGUMENT FROM EVIL:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
3. An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

The standard answer to this is that Evil is the absence of God.

There are two problems with that answer:
1. God is omnipresent; he's everywhere and everywhen. There's nowhere that he isn't.
2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Evil is contradictory to the nature of an omnibenevolent being but GOD CREATED EVIL AND SAID SO!!!!!!! THAT IS A CONTRADICTION!

God created all good and evil because He's the Creator of everything.

Wow bornofgod agreed with me...IT'S A MIRACLE! THERE IS A GOD WHOSE INVISIBLE VIBRATIONS MAKE UP EVERYTHING AND IS HIS LANGUAGE!!!!! INCREDIBLE!!
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
superflymegastallion
Posts: 370
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2/8/2014 3:52:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 1:14:19 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 2/8/2014 12:22:07 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
ARGUMENT FROM EVIL:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
3. An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

There is a flaw with #6:

God isn't an interventionalist.
Humans are the creators of all evil. Not God.
I have to disagree here romanii. Theta even showed it to you.
"2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
It isn't his job to rescue us from every plight we fall into.
If you've ever heard of authoritative parenting, it's somewhat like that.
(http://psychology.about.com...)


The standard answer to this is that Evil is the absence of God.

That answer is invalid because of the first reason you go on to state:


There are two problems with that answer:
1. God is omnipresent; he's everywhere and everywhen. There's nowhere that he isn't
2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

The Bible isn't the word of God.


Evil is contradictory to the nature of an omnibenevolent being but GOD CREATED EVIL AND SAID SO!!!!!!! THAT IS A CONTRADICTION!

Nope. Humans made evil.
Again sorry, but you'll have to back it up. Theta did. Now it's your turn.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/8/2014 3:56:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 1:21:48 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:18:41 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/8/2014 12:22:07 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
ARGUMENT FROM EVIL:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
3. An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

The standard answer to this is that Evil is the absence of God.

There are two problems with that answer:
1. God is omnipresent; he's everywhere and everywhen. There's nowhere that he isn't.
2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Evil is contradictory to the nature of an omnibenevolent being but GOD CREATED EVIL AND SAID SO!!!!!!! THAT IS A CONTRADICTION!

God created all good and evil because He's the Creator of everything.

Wow bornofgod agreed with me...IT'S A MIRACLE! THERE IS A GOD WHOSE INVISIBLE VIBRATIONS MAKE UP EVERYTHING AND IS HIS LANGUAGE!!!!! INCREDIBLE!!

I don't agree with any liars like you. All I'm doing is posting what God puts in my mind to write with. You either believe His thoughts or you don't.
Romanii
Posts: 4,864
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2/8/2014 5:14:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 3:52:17 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:14:19 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 2/8/2014 12:22:07 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
ARGUMENT FROM EVIL:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
3. An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

There is a flaw with #6:

God isn't an interventionalist.
Humans are the creators of all evil. Not God.
I have to disagree here romanii. Theta even showed it to you.
"2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
It isn't his job to rescue us from every plight we fall into.
If you've ever heard of authoritative parenting, it's somewhat like that.
(http://psychology.about.com...)


The standard answer to this is that Evil is the absence of God.

That answer is invalid because of the first reason you go on to state:


There are two problems with that answer:
1. God is omnipresent; he's everywhere and everywhen. There's nowhere that he isn't
2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

The Bible isn't the word of God.


Evil is contradictory to the nature of an omnibenevolent being but GOD CREATED EVIL AND SAID SO!!!!!!! THAT IS A CONTRADICTION!

Nope. Humans made evil.
Again sorry, but you'll have to back it up. Theta did. Now it's your turn.

The Bible isn't God's Word...
superflymegastallion
Posts: 370
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2/8/2014 5:22:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 5:14:26 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 2/8/2014 3:52:17 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:14:19 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 2/8/2014 12:22:07 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
ARGUMENT FROM EVIL:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
3. An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

There is a flaw with #6:

God isn't an interventionalist.
Humans are the creators of all evil. Not God.
I have to disagree here romanii. Theta even showed it to you.
"2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
It isn't his job to rescue us from every plight we fall into.
If you've ever heard of authoritative parenting, it's somewhat like that.
(http://psychology.about.com...)


The standard answer to this is that Evil is the absence of God.

That answer is invalid because of the first reason you go on to state:


There are two problems with that answer:
1. God is omnipresent; he's everywhere and everywhen. There's nowhere that he isn't
2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

The Bible isn't the word of God.


Evil is contradictory to the nature of an omnibenevolent being but GOD CREATED EVIL AND SAID SO!!!!!!! THAT IS A CONTRADICTION!

Nope. Humans made evil.
Again sorry, but you'll have to back it up. Theta did. Now it's your turn.

The Bible isn't God's Word...
My fault. Who's word is it, if not god? I'm assuming you don't believe in the bible now. : ) But you did definitely clear up your stance!
Romanii
Posts: 4,864
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2/8/2014 5:26:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 5:22:22 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:
At 2/8/2014 5:14:26 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 2/8/2014 3:52:17 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:14:19 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 2/8/2014 12:22:07 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
ARGUMENT FROM EVIL:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
3. An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

There is a flaw with #6:

God isn't an interventionalist.
Humans are the creators of all evil. Not God.
I have to disagree here romanii. Theta even showed it to you.
"2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
It isn't his job to rescue us from every plight we fall into.
If you've ever heard of authoritative parenting, it's somewhat like that.
(http://psychology.about.com...)


The standard answer to this is that Evil is the absence of God.

That answer is invalid because of the first reason you go on to state:


There are two problems with that answer:
1. God is omnipresent; he's everywhere and everywhen. There's nowhere that he isn't
2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

The Bible isn't the word of God.


Evil is contradictory to the nature of an omnibenevolent being but GOD CREATED EVIL AND SAID SO!!!!!!! THAT IS A CONTRADICTION!

Nope. Humans made evil.
Again sorry, but you'll have to back it up. Theta did. Now it's your turn.

The Bible isn't God's Word...
My fault. Who's word is it, if not god? I'm assuming you don't believe in the bible now. : ) But you did definitely clear up your stance!

The Bible is the words of Hebrews and early Christians.
The problem of evil is just one of the many contradictions in the Bible.
dvande28
Posts: 32
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2/8/2014 6:02:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 1:14:19 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 2/8/2014 12:22:07 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
ARGUMENT FROM EVIL:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
3. An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

There is a flaw with #6:

God isn't an interventionalist.
Humans are the creators of all evil. Not God.
It isn't his job to rescue us from every plight we fall into.
If you've ever heard of authoritative parenting, it's somewhat like that.
(http://psychology.about.com...)


The standard answer to this is that Evil is the absence of God.

That answer is invalid because of the first reason you go on to state:


There are two problems with that answer:
1. God is omnipresent; he's everywhere and everywhen. There's nowhere that he isn't
2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

The Bible isn't the word of God.


Evil is contradictory to the nature of an omnibenevolent being but GOD CREATED EVIL AND SAID SO!!!!!!! THAT IS A CONTRADICTION!

Nope. Humans made evil.

A omnipresent, omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent God would not create humans with the capacity to create evil. If God created humans knowing that they would create evil, God is not omnibenevolent.
Romanii
Posts: 4,864
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2/8/2014 6:22:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 6:02:32 PM, dvande28 wrote:

A omnipresent, omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent God would not create humans with the capacity to create evil. If God created humans knowing that they would create evil, God is not omnibenevolent.

Free will is a gift to us that allows us to be more than puppets.
Is it God's fault that we abuse it?
dvande28
Posts: 32
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2/8/2014 6:31:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 6:22:56 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:02:32 PM, dvande28 wrote:

A omnipresent, omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent God would not create humans with the capacity to create evil. If God created humans knowing that they would create evil, God is not omnibenevolent.

Free will is a gift to us that allows us to be more than puppets.
Is it God's fault that we abuse it?

An omnipresent, omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent God could create humans without the capacity to create evil, while also giving us free will. If not, God would not be omnipotent.
Romanii
Posts: 4,864
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2/8/2014 6:35:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 6:31:35 PM, dvande28 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:22:56 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:02:32 PM, dvande28 wrote:

A omnipresent, omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent God would not create humans with the capacity to create evil. If God created humans knowing that they would create evil, God is not omnibenevolent.

Free will is a gift to us that allows us to be more than puppets.
Is it God's fault that we abuse it?

An omnipresent, omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent God could create humans without the capacity to create evil, while also giving us free will. If not, God would not be omnipotent.

Create humans with a mindset which only allows them to do good?
That wouldn't be free will anymore.

Also, I feel that, in general, people arguing against God abuse the words "omniscient" and "omnipotent" for the purposes of their arguments...
dvande28
Posts: 32
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2/8/2014 6:41:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 6:35:42 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:31:35 PM, dvande28 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:22:56 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:02:32 PM, dvande28 wrote:

A omnipresent, omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent God would not create humans with the capacity to create evil. If God created humans knowing that they would create evil, God is not omnibenevolent.

Free will is a gift to us that allows us to be more than puppets.
Is it God's fault that we abuse it?

An omnipresent, omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent God could create humans without the capacity to create evil, while also giving us free will. If not, God would not be omnipotent.

Create humans with a mindset which only allows them to do good?
That wouldn't be free will anymore.

If God is truly omnipotent, it would be possible to create humans a mindset to that only allows them to do good, without violating their free will. If God cannot, then he is not omnipotent.

Also, I feel that, in general, people arguing against God abuse the words "omniscient" and "omnipotent" for the purposes of their arguments...
Romanii
Posts: 4,864
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2/8/2014 6:45:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 6:41:23 PM, dvande28 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:35:42 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:31:35 PM, dvande28 wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:22:56 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 2/8/2014 6:02:32 PM, dvande28 wrote:

A omnipresent, omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent God would not create humans with the capacity to create evil. If God created humans knowing that they would create evil, God is not omnibenevolent.

Free will is a gift to us that allows us to be more than puppets.
Is it God's fault that we abuse it?

An omnipresent, omnibenevolent, omniscient and omnipotent God could create humans without the capacity to create evil, while also giving us free will. If not, God would not be omnipotent.

Create humans with a mindset which only allows them to do good?
That wouldn't be free will anymore.

If God is truly omnipotent, it would be possible to create humans a mindset to that only allows them to do good, without violating their free will. If God cannot, then he is not omnipotent.

You just proved my point that atheists abuse the word "omnipotent".
No, God cannot make two opposites be true at the same time.
If that means he doesn't fit the technical definition of omnipotence then so be it.
He is still infinitely more powerful than anything in the universe.


Also, I feel that, in general, people arguing against God abuse the words "omniscient" and "omnipotent" for the purposes of their arguments...
theta_pinch
Posts: 496
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2/8/2014 7:12:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 3:56:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:21:48 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:18:41 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/8/2014 12:22:07 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
ARGUMENT FROM EVIL:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
3. An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

The standard answer to this is that Evil is the absence of God.

There are two problems with that answer:
1. God is omnipresent; he's everywhere and everywhen. There's nowhere that he isn't.
2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Evil is contradictory to the nature of an omnibenevolent being but GOD CREATED EVIL AND SAID SO!!!!!!! THAT IS A CONTRADICTION!

God created all good and evil because He's the Creator of everything.

Wow bornofgod agreed with me...IT'S A MIRACLE! THERE IS A GOD WHOSE INVISIBLE VIBRATIONS MAKE UP EVERYTHING AND IS HIS LANGUAGE!!!!! INCREDIBLE!!

I don't agree with any liars like you. All I'm doing is posting what God puts in my mind to write with. You either believe His thoughts or you don't.

let me rephrase that as wow I agree with bornofgod. Is that more accurate?
Any sufficiently complex phenomenon is indistinguishable from magic--Me

"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."
Niel deGrasse Tyson
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/8/2014 8:04:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 7:12:37 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/8/2014 3:56:13 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:21:48 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:18:41 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/8/2014 12:22:07 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
ARGUMENT FROM EVIL:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
3. An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

The standard answer to this is that Evil is the absence of God.

There are two problems with that answer:
1. God is omnipresent; he's everywhere and everywhen. There's nowhere that he isn't.
2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Evil is contradictory to the nature of an omnibenevolent being but GOD CREATED EVIL AND SAID SO!!!!!!! THAT IS A CONTRADICTION!

God created all good and evil because He's the Creator of everything.

Wow bornofgod agreed with me...IT'S A MIRACLE! THERE IS A GOD WHOSE INVISIBLE VIBRATIONS MAKE UP EVERYTHING AND IS HIS LANGUAGE!!!!! INCREDIBLE!!

I don't agree with any liars like you. All I'm doing is posting what God puts in my mind to write with. You either believe His thoughts or you don't.

let me rephrase that as wow I agree with bornofgod. Is that more accurate?

Sometimes it's difficult to tell whether someone is believing our Creator or mocking Him while I'm preaching the gospel to him. I've had all types of people come to me in the past 2 1/2 years to ask me what my sign is about. I carry around a whiteboard on a handcart all day long and God has chosen certain people to come and ask me about the message I write on it each morning. Sometimes they are unbelievers who come to challenge me and end up mocking our Creator who is using my flesh to speak with.

I've had some believers who started out in disbelief and end up believing a year later. Most believers like what they hear and thank me for giving them information. These people are fun to preach to because they will listen for hours without talking. Then there are those who listen for a moment and start asking questions. They can't seem to listen for any amount of time because they want to know everything at once. People like this requires rebuking, which means our Creator will stop them from listening to their lying thoughts within their mind to listen to Him in the gospel I preach to them. If they are a true believer, they will obey Him and start to listen to Him. It's incredible to see this power He has over them to stop them from talking and listen to Him.
tahir.imanov
Posts: 272
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2/8/2014 8:27:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 12:22:07 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
ARGUMENT FROM EVIL:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omni-benevolent.
3. An omni-benevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and omni-benevolent God, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

Actually, it is argument against Christianity, (but) not against existence of God. God being Creator of all, therefor He created evil. You are attributing names to God (by supposing his attributes), so rational question is how did you determined God is omni...... . We can determine existence of God using (our) rational faculties, but everything (else) about God should come from God, (because) Him being superior and us being inferior, we cannot understand (attributes of) God buy ourselves.
This is red.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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2/8/2014 10:22:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I guess it all depends on how you define God. I think God exists, but I don't think he/she is omnibenevolent. So, the PoE wouldn't apply to my conception of God.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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2/8/2014 10:38:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 10:22:43 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I guess it all depends on how you define God. I think God exists, but I don't think he/she is omnibenevolent. So, the PoE wouldn't apply to my conception of God.

Is your main objection to his/her omnibenevolence that there is evil?
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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2/8/2014 10:59:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 10:38:35 PM, stubs wrote:
At 2/8/2014 10:22:43 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I guess it all depends on how you define God. I think God exists, but I don't think he/she is omnibenevolent. So, the PoE wouldn't apply to my conception of God.

Is your main objection to his/her omnibenevolence that there is evil?

I just look at the world and find it very hard to believe that an omnibenevolent being created it. I suppose it is really that simple lol
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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2/8/2014 11:01:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 10:38:35 PM, stubs wrote:
At 2/8/2014 10:22:43 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I guess it all depends on how you define God. I think God exists, but I don't think he/she is omnibenevolent. So, the PoE wouldn't apply to my conception of God.

Is your main objection to his/her omnibenevolence that there is evil?

I mean, there is a law in the wild of "eat or be eaten", I'm a really expected to believe that the most benevolent being possible couldn't think of a more benevolent law to govern animals?
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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2/8/2014 11:02:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 10:38:35 PM, stubs wrote:
At 2/8/2014 10:22:43 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I guess it all depends on how you define God. I think God exists, but I don't think he/she is omnibenevolent. So, the PoE wouldn't apply to my conception of God.

Is your main objection to his/her omnibenevolence that there is evil?

The idea that an omnibenevolent being created everything is "suspect" at best, even if not impossible.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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2/8/2014 11:25:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 12:22:07 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
ARGUMENT FROM EVIL:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
3. An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

The standard answer to this is that Evil is the absence of God.

There are two problems with that answer:
1. God is omnipresent; he's everywhere and everywhen. There's nowhere that he isn't.
2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Evil is contradictory to the nature of an omnibenevolent being but GOD CREATED EVIL AND SAID SO!!!!!!! THAT IS A CONTRADICTION!

I disagree with your second point ( 2 ), theta. It's perfectly possible that God is neither omnibenevolent and omniscient ( all knowing ).

In fact, there are schools of theism that reject that God is omnibenevolent and actually endorse a kind of devil God, even in Christianity.

This is called "dystheism" - the view that God exist but he is not wholly Good ( or that he is an entity whose concerns cannot always be reconciled with the myriad of concerns in his living creations ). The Gnostics, Marcionites, and Manicheans, perceived Yahweh as identical to Satan ( though capable of both good and bad ), and early Christianity treated them as heretics.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

I actually do subscribe to a dystheistic view of God ( God is both light and darkness ), because I believe he has to be with mankind.

In some ways I also identify with subscribers of "Maltheism" - the view that God is not fit to be worshipped, because of his fierce, abusive treatment of humankind throughout history. But I do waver on the subject and understand why others may want to worship him.

I think it's unfair to force God to be something he genuinely may not be and then use this as evidence to argue that God doesn't exist. Well, an omnibenevolent God clearly doesn't exist; but alternative Gods most certainly can.
DudeStop
Posts: 1,278
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2/8/2014 11:31:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 12:22:07 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
ARGUMENT FROM EVIL:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
3. An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

The standard answer to this is that Evil is the absence of God.

There are two problems with that answer:
1. God is omnipresent; he's everywhere and everywhen. There's nowhere that he isn't.
2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Evil is contradictory to the nature of an omnibenevolent being but GOD CREATED EVIL AND SAID SO!!!!!!! THAT IS A CONTRADICTION!

Or there's the greater good argument.
miles-pro-libertate
Posts: 2
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2/9/2014 7:37:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The problem with this is the definition of omnibenevolent. If he is omnibenevolent, would he rather eliminate all evil or create the most possible amount of good? It you think the former, this logic holds up. However, if we think about the latter, good and evil cannot exist without each other because you need a reference point to quantify them. Therefore, a deity like this would instead of eliminating evil, seek to create the most good out of a situation with both good and evil.
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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2/11/2014 12:26:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/8/2014 5:14:26 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 2/8/2014 3:52:17 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:
At 2/8/2014 1:14:19 PM, Romanii wrote:
At 2/8/2014 12:22:07 PM, theta_pinch wrote:
ARGUMENT FROM EVIL:

1. God exists.
2. God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent.
3. An omnibenevolent being would want to prevent all evils.
4. An omniscient being knows every way in which evils can come into existence.
5. An omnipotent being has the power to prevent that evil from coming into existence.
6. A being who knows every way in which an evil can come into existence, who is able to prevent that evil from coming into existence, and who wants to do so, would prevent the existence of that evil.
7. If there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent God, then no evil exists.
8. Evil exists (logical contradiction).

There is a flaw with #6:

God isn't an interventionalist.
Humans are the creators of all evil. Not God.
I have to disagree here romanii. Theta even showed it to you.
"2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
It isn't his job to rescue us from every plight we fall into.
If you've ever heard of authoritative parenting, it's somewhat like that.
(http://psychology.about.com...)


The standard answer to this is that Evil is the absence of God.

That answer is invalid because of the first reason you go on to state:


There are two problems with that answer:
1. God is omnipresent; he's everywhere and everywhen. There's nowhere that he isn't
2. Isaiah 45:7 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

The Bible isn't the word of God.


Evil is contradictory to the nature of an omnibenevolent being but GOD CREATED EVIL AND SAID SO!!!!!!! THAT IS A CONTRADICTION!

Nope. Humans made evil.
Again sorry, but you'll have to back it up. Theta did. Now it's your turn.

The Bible isn't God's Word...

Then by who's authority are you speaking of God? I am not a believer in the bible either. But to speak of God or his attributes you must draw statements from an authorized source, otherwise you are only offering conjecture.

So by who's authority do you claim that God doesn't create evil but humans do>?