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Second Coming?

Skyangel
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2/16/2014 11:30:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Christian religions believe that a supernatural man named Jesus will physically return to earth a second time one day in order to set up a physical kingdom on earth for a literal thousand years. They have plenty of scriptures which they use to support that belief. However, no scripture exists which refers to a "second" coming. The word second is never mentioned in reference to Jesus coming again.

The story is allegorical. Jesus is simply a personification of "Truth and Light" as in a revelation not as physical light from the sun. However physical light can be a natural parable of the light "coming again" to the earth while at the same time never leaving or forsaking us. It "comes again" from the east and shines to the west every single day.

There is no literal first or second coming of "the light of the world" which has always been on this planet. There is just a first time for a person to see it and every time after that is merely a repeat of what they saw the first time.

That concept applies to both the physical as well as the spiritual aspects of life and its revelations.

Once you understand something and have that "AHA" revelation where the LIGHT goes on your mind for the first time, there is no need for it to go on a second time since it does not go out. You never stop understanding that which you come to fully understand.

"The Light of the World" is not a supernatural invisible man but a revelation which always was and always is and always is to come again and again and again daily to those who wish to be woken out of their dream state and false doctrines and face reality and truth instead of waiting for their fictional supernatural man to appear in literal clouds and rule the planet for a literal thousand years.

However, those who enjoy their dreams and fantasies will not wish to be woken from them so please tip toe quietly around the nursery because babies are sleeping and dreaming of things to come. ;-)
GodChoosesLife
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2/16/2014 11:38:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
You speaking of the rapture??
Better than deserved, as ALWAYS.
"The strongest principle of growth lies in human choices."
"The Lord doesn't promise us a perfect life that is free of problems, but he does promise that He'll get us through anything." ~SweeTea
"Good Times" ~ Max
"If Jesus isn't in heaven, then it's not heaven; instead, it's hell." ~anonymous
"Suffering is unimaginably confusing, but it's a way to be drawn closer to God" ~Me
"Tell me what consumes your heart most, and I'll tell you who your God is." ~Dad
annanicole
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2/16/2014 11:49:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/16/2014 11:38:45 PM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
You speaking of the rapture??

He's making up a straw man in order to punch it around. It would take a slap fool to think that Jesus is coming back and setting foot on this earth again. The Bible never teaches such a thing. He is making a passing reference to the "premillennial" (for lack of a better word) groups - the ones who somewhat resemble a cult. They have this complex program worked out for Jesus involving a future Armageddon, casting of Satan, thousand years, rebuilding of the temple, etc., etc., ad nauseum.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
biomystic
Posts: 606
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2/17/2014 6:54:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Armageddon has literally come and Christians and even atheists have missed it's arrival. Prophesy, when it comes true at all, always comes true in ways believers are never prepared for. Like the Jews were not prepared at all for the arrival of Jesus Christ as their Messiah, because their prophesies did not predict such a man despite all the reinvented "Christ" interpretations found in the Old Testament, such as Isaiah 53. Judaism missed their Messiah because the priests of Judah themselves destroyed their own Torah's spiritual foundation when they divorced the Celestial Torah from the earthly man-made Torah. In short, God has already brought in the spiritual correction by having Israeli archeologists exposing the historical lies of the myth-making writers of the Bible. With the Bible exposed now for all intellectuals as Jewish myths of origin without historical foundation, all Abrahamic religions have been spiritually exposed as works of men and not of the real God Most High except for God's embedding spiritual truth within Abrahamic religions despite their outward spiritual errors. The veins and nuggets of spiritual gold are still to be found within Scriptures but one has to dig them out of their historical foundations and religious propaganda bases.

With the Bible exposed now as Jewish and Pauline Christian propaganda but still retaining nuggets of spiritual truth what about the Second Coming? If prophesy can come true? Well, it is coming true. With the Celestial Torah now recovered one can actually now find the Christ/Messiah literally coming in the clouds when the clouds are the clouds of heaven, i.e. an ancient reference to the Milky Way seen from earth. Celestial Torah Christianity recovers the ancient Jewish/Egyptian Celestial astrology system which forms the spiritual knowledge basis for the earthly Torah, or at least it should have. Without the ancient astrological knowledge one cannot decifer Scriptures for their embedded spiritual knowledge. For example, the Pauline references to the "Lord of the Air" and "one caught up to the 3rd heaven" are astrological, one referring to the Sign of Aquarius which is where God has placed the Celestial Messiah Sign in the heavens for all humankind below to see altogether, each night this happens to those looking up in the clear night sky all over the globe. One only had to have the right appointed point man, the Jewish prophesy bearer, because salvation is of the Jews, to point this out. Which has been done through the recovery of the Celestial Torah.

Since the Christ returns now each and every night for those who now know where to look for the Sign, what of the physical Christ returning bodily on earth? What of that? Will it too be different from what the old priests told us? Yes. With all spiritual authority drained from the Bible exposed as works of man masquerading as Word of God, where is the spiritual Authority now? It is where it always has been located: In God's Celestial Sign Language written in the heavens above where no man can touch them to manipulate for particular advantage. And Her Sign was predicted, prophesy embedded within Scriptures but only to the appointed reader, the one who can open the Scrolls. When the spiritual meaning behind the phrase, "I am the Bright and Morning Star" is revealed to the wise, She has been revealed in spiritual identity, the One coming bearing the Spirit of Christ for our times. And Her Signs have arrived already. She is coming! The Daughter of God.
Skyangel
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2/17/2014 3:17:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/16/2014 11:38:45 PM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
You speaking of the rapture??

There will be no literal physical rapture.
The rapture is a myth made up by Christians. It is a huge misinterpretation of scripture.
Such misinterpretation is caused by people taking scripture literally instead of comprehending scripture is allegorical.
GodChoosesLife
Posts: 3,461
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2/17/2014 3:18:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 3:17:26 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 2/16/2014 11:38:45 PM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
You speaking of the rapture??

There will be no literal physical rapture.
The rapture is a myth made up by Christians. It is a huge misinterpretation of scripture.
Such misinterpretation is caused by people taking scripture literally instead of comprehending scripture is allegorical.

Ummmm I am a Christian ... And it is not mythical as you claim it to be.. Nor do Christians take the Scripture outta its context when it pertains to that, but I appreciate you bluntness,..
Better than deserved, as ALWAYS.
"The strongest principle of growth lies in human choices."
"The Lord doesn't promise us a perfect life that is free of problems, but he does promise that He'll get us through anything." ~SweeTea
"Good Times" ~ Max
"If Jesus isn't in heaven, then it's not heaven; instead, it's hell." ~anonymous
"Suffering is unimaginably confusing, but it's a way to be drawn closer to God" ~Me
"Tell me what consumes your heart most, and I'll tell you who your God is." ~Dad
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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2/17/2014 3:21:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/16/2014 11:49:29 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/16/2014 11:38:45 PM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
You speaking of the rapture??

He's making up a straw man in order to punch it around. It would take a slap fool to think that Jesus is coming back and setting foot on this earth again. The Bible never teaches such a thing. He is making a passing reference to the "premillennial" (for lack of a better word) groups - the ones who somewhat resemble a cult. They have this complex program worked out for Jesus involving a future Armageddon, casting of Satan, thousand years, rebuilding of the temple, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

There are many fools who actually believe that Jesus is going to return to earth in literal clouds and rule the world for a literal thousand years from the New Jerusalem which will magically descend to earth out of heaven.
blaze8
Posts: 164
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2/17/2014 3:26:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
1 Thessalonians 4: 14-18

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


I suppose you're all going to tell me this doesn't fit the story of the rapture? Anyone?
"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."-Sterling Archer
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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2/17/2014 3:28:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 3:18:52 PM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
At 2/17/2014 3:17:26 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 2/16/2014 11:38:45 PM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
You speaking of the rapture??

There will be no literal physical rapture.
The rapture is a myth made up by Christians. It is a huge misinterpretation of scripture.
Such misinterpretation is caused by people taking scripture literally instead of comprehending scripture is allegorical.

Ummmm I am a Christian ... And it is not mythical as you claim it to be.. Nor do Christians take the Scripture outta its context when it pertains to that, but I appreciate you bluntness,..

Maybe you would like to explain the way you perceive it if you think it is not a myth?
What do you think it's referring to in reality?

All Christian religions and cults take scripture out of context to suit their false doctrines. They forget to take into consideration that the principles in any bible prophecy are eternal and repeat themselves constantly. They make their doctrines apply to finite worldly events instead of to infinite spiritual concepts.
TheWarrior
Posts: 126
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2/17/2014 3:34:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 3:26:32 PM, blaze8 wrote:
1 Thessalonians 4: 14-18

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


I suppose you're all going to tell me this doesn't fit the story of the rapture? Anyone?

Yes, yes I will.

Sincerely,
The Amillennialist
https://docs.google.com...
Lead Enforcer of the DDO Revolutionary Party
blaze8
Posts: 164
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2/17/2014 3:38:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 3:34:08 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 2/17/2014 3:26:32 PM, blaze8 wrote:
1 Thessalonians 4: 14-18

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


I suppose you're all going to tell me this doesn't fit the story of the rapture? Anyone?

Yes, yes I will.

Sincerely,
The Amillennialist

And your reasoning would be......? A complete rejection of the explicit statement made above in Thessalonians, and the substitution of your groundless personal beliefs?
"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."-Sterling Archer
TheWarrior
Posts: 126
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2/17/2014 3:50:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 3:38:34 PM, blaze8 wrote:
At 2/17/2014 3:34:08 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 2/17/2014 3:26:32 PM, blaze8 wrote:
1 Thessalonians 4: 14-18

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


I suppose you're all going to tell me this doesn't fit the story of the rapture? Anyone?

Yes, yes I will.

Sincerely,
The Amillennialist

And your reasoning would be......? A complete rejection of the explicit statement made above in Thessalonians, and the substitution of your groundless personal beliefs?

Actually, no. I simply interpret that scripture differently than you would. Will the lord come back? Yes, I believe he will. When will he come back? I do not know. Are Christians who are dead already in heaven with the Father? Yes, II Corinthians 5:6-8 tells us so. So why would the dead have to rise again? They would not. They are rising continually as they die. When we go to meet the Lord we will see them again. THis passage is for comfort. to that those brothers and sisters in Christ who have died before us we will see them again.
https://docs.google.com...
Lead Enforcer of the DDO Revolutionary Party
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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2/17/2014 4:02:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 6:54:42 AM, biomystic wrote:
Armageddon has literally come and Christians and even atheists have missed it's arrival............................etc.......................... When the spiritual meaning behind the phrase, "I am the Bright and Morning Star" is revealed to the wise, She has been revealed in spiritual identity, the One coming bearing the Spirit of Christ for our times. And Her Signs have arrived already. She is coming! The Daughter of God.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

It might help if you get your head out of the clouds and come down to earth and explain what on earth you are talking about in realistic terms.

Armageddon is about an inner spiritual conflict not about anything else. No one can miss it since it is an inner war which goes on in the hearts and minds of people and will continue in all who are brainwashed by religions when they face the Truth which is at enmity with their brainwashing.

Many believe Lucifer is the bright and morning star. http://en.wikipedia.org...

Christ is the Spirit of Truth which never left the earth. It is always with us in the flesh in all of life. It is always passing away and dying daily in the same way today is always passing away and dying daily and becoming the history of yesterday. Tomorrow (the future) is always coming and when it arrives it is no longer tomorrow but becomes today. Tomorrow is eternally coming again while at the same time always with us.

Use that same principle of an eternal promise of "coming again" to all revelation. It always comes again to all future generations who are also coming in the eternal tomorrow.
LIFE is forever coming again and also forever leaving or passing away like yesterday while at the same time always being with us in the flesh in reality.
The same principle applies to eternal prophecies in a spiritual sense.
Jesus is always on earth in the flesh. Jesus is merely a personification of LIFE itself.
"I am the WAY, TRUTH and LIFE"

The WAY is an eternal principle.
The TRUTH is reality.
The LIFE is the animating force of all living things in reality.

To see Jesus on earth in the flesh look at LIFE in reality. It is always with us,. It is always dying daily and passing on into yesterday. It is always coming again tomorrow.

It is very simple to understand. No fantasy or imagination needed. Just simple logic.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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2/17/2014 4:06:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 3:21:42 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 2/16/2014 11:49:29 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/16/2014 11:38:45 PM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
You speaking of the rapture??

He's making up a straw man in order to punch it around. It would take a slap fool to think that Jesus is coming back and setting foot on this earth again. The Bible never teaches such a thing. He is making a passing reference to the "premillennial" (for lack of a better word) groups - the ones who somewhat resemble a cult. They have this complex program worked out for Jesus involving a future Armageddon, casting of Satan, thousand years, rebuilding of the temple, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

There are many fools who actually believe that Jesus is going to return to earth in literal clouds and rule the world for a literal thousand years from the New Jerusalem which will magically descend to earth out of heaven.

These are known are Premillennialists. They teach that the first coming of Christ was a failure. If one is examining Christianity in general, they aren't worthy of notice.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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2/17/2014 4:08:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 3:34:08 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 2/17/2014 3:26:32 PM, blaze8 wrote:
1 Thessalonians 4: 14-18

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


I suppose you're all going to tell me this doesn't fit the story of the rapture? Anyone?

Yes, yes I will.

Sincerely,
The Amillennialist

I do not believe in any future 1,000-year reign, yet I believe the above scripture wholeheartedly
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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2/17/2014 4:14:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 3:26:32 PM, blaze8 wrote:
1 Thessalonians 4: 14-18

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


I suppose you're all going to tell me this doesn't fit the story of the rapture? Anyone?

------------------------------------------------------------

Do you think any of it is literal and referring to anything physical, natural or mortal?
If you do, please explain why?

What does "sleeping in Jesus" mean to you ?
What does being "dead in Christ" mean to you ?
What does "the coming of the Lord" mean to you?
What does "caught up together with them in the clouds" mean to you?

Are you dead in Christ?
If not when do you think you will you be dead in Christ?

Was Paul dead or alive in Christ when he wrote....
Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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2/17/2014 4:17:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 3:34:08 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 2/17/2014 3:26:32 PM, blaze8 wrote:
1 Thessalonians 4: 14-18

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


I suppose you're all going to tell me this doesn't fit the story of the rapture? Anyone?

Yes, yes I will.

Sincerely,
The Amillennialist

What is your interpretation of it? Please entertain us.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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2/17/2014 4:24:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 4:08:44 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/17/2014 3:34:08 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 2/17/2014 3:26:32 PM, blaze8 wrote:
1 Thessalonians 4: 14-18

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


I suppose you're all going to tell me this doesn't fit the story of the rapture? Anyone?

Yes, yes I will.

Sincerely,
The Amillennialist

I do not believe in any future 1,000-year reign, yet I believe the above scripture wholeheartedly

Do you interpret it literally or spiritually?
Can you explain your perception in a way that everyone can understand it?
Are you expecting Jesus to physically appear in literal clouds one day in the future and all believers who are physically dead to literally rise out of their physical graves?
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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2/17/2014 4:31:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 3:50:49 PM, TheWarrior wrote:

Actually, no. I simply interpret that scripture differently than you would. Will the lord come back? Yes, I believe he will. When will he come back? I do not know. Are Christians who are dead already in heaven with the Father? Yes, II Corinthians 5:6-8 tells us so. So why would the dead have to rise again? They would not. They are rising continually as they die. When we go to meet the Lord we will see them again. THis passage is for comfort. to that those brothers and sisters in Christ who have died before us we will see them again.

--------------------------------------------

According to your own reasoning, if the dead are already with the Father, they have no need to rise again. That is perfectly logical and sensible.

Now please tell me why the Lord would need to come again if he never left in the first place?
Jesus said " ....lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." ( Matt 28:20)

If you have a friend who never leaves you at any time, why would you be waiting for them to return?
Has your Lord left you?
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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2/17/2014 4:45:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 4:24:11 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 2/17/2014 4:08:44 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 2/17/2014 3:34:08 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 2/17/2014 3:26:32 PM, blaze8 wrote:
1 Thessalonians 4: 14-18

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


I suppose you're all going to tell me this doesn't fit the story of the rapture? Anyone?

Yes, yes I will.

Sincerely,
The Amillennialist

I do not believe in any future 1,000-year reign, yet I believe the above scripture wholeheartedly

Do you interpret it literally or spiritually?
Can you explain your perception in a way that everyone can understand it?
Are you expecting Jesus to physically appear in literal clouds one day in the future and all believers who are physically dead to literally rise out of their physical graves?

I expect everyone to rise out of their graves whether they are believers or not:

"Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment."

"But some one will say, How are the dead raised? and with what manner of body do they come? Thou foolish one, that which thou thyself sowest is not quickened except it die"

"It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power"

I simply see no indication that Jesus has any need to set foot on this earth again, nor any need to reign over in Palestine for 1,000 years.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
TheWarrior
Posts: 126
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2/17/2014 6:36:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 4:31:40 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 2/17/2014 3:50:49 PM, TheWarrior wrote:

Actually, no. I simply interpret that scripture differently than you would. Will the lord come back? Yes, I believe he will. When will he come back? I do not know. Are Christians who are dead already in heaven with the Father? Yes, II Corinthians 5:6-8 tells us so. So why would the dead have to rise again? They would not. They are rising continually as they die. When we go to meet the Lord we will see them again. THis passage is for comfort. to that those brothers and sisters in Christ who have died before us we will see them again.

--------------------------------------------

According to your own reasoning, if the dead are already with the Father, they have no need to rise again. That is perfectly logical and sensible.

Now please tell me why the Lord would need to come again if he never left in the first place?
Jesus said " ....lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." ( Matt 28:20)

If you have a friend who never leaves you at any time, why would you be waiting for them to return?
Has your Lord left you?

No, He is with me in my heart. Yet his physical body has left. He will return physicaly. Matthew 28:20 speaks of a spiritual presence. He will eventually let Satan go to decieve the nations. Then He will return (physicaly) to throw Satan into the lake of fire.
https://docs.google.com...
Lead Enforcer of the DDO Revolutionary Party
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/17/2014 8:11:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/16/2014 11:30:31 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Christian religions believe that a supernatural man named Jesus will physically return to earth a second time one day in order to set up a physical kingdom on earth for a literal thousand years. They have plenty of scriptures which they use to support that belief. However, no scripture exists which refers to a "second" coming. The word second is never mentioned in reference to Jesus coming again.

The story is allegorical. Jesus is simply a personification of "Truth and Light" as in a revelation not as physical light from the sun. However physical light can be a natural parable of the light "coming again" to the earth while at the same time never leaving or forsaking us. It "comes again" from the east and shines to the west every single day.

There is no literal first or second coming of "the light of the world" which has always been on this planet. There is just a first time for a person to see it and every time after that is merely a repeat of what they saw the first time.

That concept applies to both the physical as well as the spiritual aspects of life and its revelations.

Once you understand something and have that "AHA" revelation where the LIGHT goes on your mind for the first time, there is no need for it to go on a second time since it does not go out. You never stop understanding that which you come to fully understand.

"The Light of the World" is not a supernatural invisible man but a revelation which always was and always is and always is to come again and again and again daily to those who wish to be woken out of their dream state and false doctrines and face reality and truth instead of waiting for their fictional supernatural man to appear in literal clouds and rule the planet for a literal thousand years.

However, those who enjoy their dreams and fantasies will not wish to be woken from them so please tip toe quietly around the nursery because babies are sleeping and dreaming of things to come. ;-)

I see the beast has really deceived you of reality.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/17/2014 8:15:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 6:54:42 AM, biomystic wrote:
Armageddon has literally come and Christians and even atheists have missed it's arrival. Prophesy, when it comes true at all, always comes true in ways believers are never prepared for. Like the Jews were not prepared at all for the arrival of Jesus Christ as their Messiah, because their prophesies did not predict such a man despite all the reinvented "Christ" interpretations found in the Old Testament, such as Isaiah 53. Judaism missed their Messiah because the priests of Judah themselves destroyed their own Torah's spiritual foundation when they divorced the Celestial Torah from the earthly man-made Torah. In short, God has already brought in the spiritual correction by having Israeli archeologists exposing the historical lies of the myth-making writers of the Bible. With the Bible exposed now for all intellectuals as Jewish myths of origin without historical foundation, all Abrahamic religions have been spiritually exposed as works of men and not of the real God Most High except for God's embedding spiritual truth within Abrahamic religions despite their outward spiritual errors. The veins and nuggets of spiritual gold are still to be found within Scriptures but one has to dig them out of their historical foundations and religious propaganda bases.

With the Bible exposed now as Jewish and Pauline Christian propaganda but still retaining nuggets of spiritual truth what about the Second Coming? If prophesy can come true? Well, it is coming true. With the Celestial Torah now recovered one can actually now find the Christ/Messiah literally coming in the clouds when the clouds are the clouds of heaven, i.e. an ancient reference to the Milky Way seen from earth. Celestial Torah Christianity recovers the ancient Jewish/Egyptian Celestial astrology system which forms the spiritual knowledge basis for the earthly Torah, or at least it should have. Without the ancient astrological knowledge one cannot decifer Scriptures for their embedded spiritual knowledge. For example, the Pauline references to the "Lord of the Air" and "one caught up to the 3rd heaven" are astrological, one referring to the Sign of Aquarius which is where God has placed the Celestial Messiah Sign in the heavens for all humankind below to see altogether, each night this happens to those looking up in the clear night sky all over the globe. One only had to have the right appointed point man, the Jewish prophesy bearer, because salvation is of the Jews, to point this out. Which has been done through the recovery of the Celestial Torah.

Since the Christ returns now each and every night for those who now know where to look for the Sign, what of the physical Christ returning bodily on earth? What of that? Will it too be different from what the old priests told us? Yes. With all spiritual authority drained from the Bible exposed as works of man masquerading as Word of God, where is the spiritual Authority now? It is where it always has been located: In God's Celestial Sign Language written in the heavens above where no man can touch them to manipulate for particular advantage. And Her Sign was predicted, prophesy embedded within Scriptures but only to the appointed reader, the one who can open the Scrolls. When the spiritual meaning behind the phrase, "I am the Bright and Morning Star" is revealed to the wise, She has been revealed in spiritual identity, the One coming bearing the Spirit of Christ for our times. And Her Signs have arrived already. She is coming! The Daughter of God.

The beast deceived the first people who looked up into the sky filled with all kinds of white dots that they didn't understand. Without God's plan called the beast, they wouldn't have learned how to connect the dots with imaginary lines to get building shapes to build their false gods out of earthen materials. God knows exactly what's going on because HE is the CREATOR of EVERYTHING.
blaze8
Posts: 164
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2/17/2014 9:32:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 4:14:47 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Do you think any of it is literal and referring to anything physical, natural or mortal?
If you do, please explain why?

There's absolutely nothing in that passage that indicates Paul is writing anything figurative. We have no good reason to treat it as something non-literal, other than our subjective opinion of it. The passage itself is very clear, and nothing mentioned in it is beyond the reach of the God of the New Testament or the God of the Old Testament, so therefore, we can logically conclude that it is meant to be literal.

What does "sleeping in Jesus" mean to you ?
What does being "dead in Christ" mean to you ?
What does "the coming of the Lord" mean to you?
What does "caught up together with them in the clouds" mean to you?

Sleeping in Jesus and Dead in Christ mean dead believers. The coming of the Lord means exactly that, the Lord God coming. Caught up together with them in the clouds means brought up into heaven together with them, through the clouds. We have no logical reason, by context in the passage or by statement in the passage itself, to take this as anything other than literal.

Was Paul dead or alive in Christ when he wrote....
Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Alive in Christ. "nevertheless I live." Christ lives in him, not himself, meaning Christ is the one in his heart, not his selfish desires born of sin. He is clearly alive, and he has devoted his life to the faith of the Son of God, who sacrificed himself for our sins.
"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."-Sterling Archer
Skyangel
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2/17/2014 11:30:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 4:45:10 PM, annanicole wrote:

I expect everyone to rise out of their graves whether they are believers or not:

"Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment."

"But some one will say, How are the dead raised? and with what manner of body do they come? Thou foolish one, that which thou thyself sowest is not quickened except it die"

"It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power"

I simply see no indication that Jesus has any need to set foot on this earth again, nor any need to reign over in Palestine for 1,000 years.

-----------------------------------------

Here is the scripture where you can see Jesus prophecy fulfilled regarding people being raised from their graves.

Matt 27:52
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Since it has already been fulfilled in scripture, why are you waiting for it to be fulfilled again?

If that was fulfilled in any literal sense don't you think there would be a lot more historical documents recording this mass resurrection as a historical event other than just one verse in the bible referring to such mass resurrection?

Jesus was not referring to literal graves.

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Have you been buried with him and risen out of your grave yet?

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Skyangel
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2/17/2014 11:46:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 6:36:31 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 2/17/2014 4:31:40 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 2/17/2014 3:50:49 PM, TheWarrior wrote:

Actually, no. I simply interpret that scripture differently than you would. Will the lord come back? Yes, I believe he will. When will he come back? I do not know. Are Christians who are dead already in heaven with the Father? Yes, II Corinthians 5:6-8 tells us so. So why would the dead have to rise again? They would not. They are rising continually as they die. When we go to meet the Lord we will see them again. THis passage is for comfort. to that those brothers and sisters in Christ who have died before us we will see them again.

--------------------------------------------

According to your own reasoning, if the dead are already with the Father, they have no need to rise again. That is perfectly logical and sensible.

Now please tell me why the Lord would need to come again if he never left in the first place?
Jesus said " ....lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." ( Matt 28:20)

If you have a friend who never leaves you at any time, why would you be waiting for them to return?
Has your Lord left you?

No, He is with me in my heart. Yet his physical body has left. He will return physicaly. Matthew 28:20 speaks of a spiritual presence. He will eventually let Satan go to decieve the nations. Then He will return (physicaly) to throw Satan into the lake of fire.

--------------------------------------------------

Don't you realize that YOU are the physical body of Christ on earth IF Christ abides in you?
1Cor 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1 Cor 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

1 Cor 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

You believers are the physical body of Christ on earth today. The only reason you are waiting for Christ to arrive in a different physical body is either due to you not understanding who you are or maybe Christ is not in you at all but a false Christ abides in you.

I say to Christ on earth today, Physician heal thyself.

Christ is a body of MANY members. Not a trinity of just three and not just one.
The cells in the body are infinite.
Skyangel
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2/17/2014 11:50:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 8:11:48 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/16/2014 11:30:31 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Christian religions believe that a supernatural man named Jesus will physically return to earth a second time one day in order to set up a physical kingdom on earth for a literal thousand years. They have plenty of scriptures which they use to support that belief. However, no scripture exists which refers to a "second" coming. The word second is never mentioned in reference to Jesus coming again.

The story is allegorical. Jesus is simply a personification of "Truth and Light" as in a revelation not as physical light from the sun. However physical light can be a natural parable of the light "coming again" to the earth while at the same time never leaving or forsaking us. It "comes again" from the east and shines to the west every single day.

There is no literal first or second coming of "the light of the world" which has always been on this planet. There is just a first time for a person to see it and every time after that is merely a repeat of what they saw the first time.

That concept applies to both the physical as well as the spiritual aspects of life and its revelations.

Once you understand something and have that "AHA" revelation where the LIGHT goes on your mind for the first time, there is no need for it to go on a second time since it does not go out. You never stop understanding that which you come to fully understand.

"The Light of the World" is not a supernatural invisible man but a revelation which always was and always is and always is to come again and again and again daily to those who wish to be woken out of their dream state and false doctrines and face reality and truth instead of waiting for their fictional supernatural man to appear in literal clouds and rule the planet for a literal thousand years.

However, those who enjoy their dreams and fantasies will not wish to be woken from them so please tip toe quietly around the nursery because babies are sleeping and dreaming of things to come. ;-)

I see the beast has really deceived you of reality.

Listen to your own echo. Your own words apply to yourself. If you think I am deceived you are observing nothing but an illusion. I am merely a reflection of you. You see yourself in me and in judging me the way you do, you judge yourself the same.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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2/18/2014 12:04:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 9:32:11 PM, blaze8 wrote:
At 2/17/2014 4:14:47 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Do you think any of it is literal and referring to anything physical, natural or mortal?
If you do, please explain why?

There's absolutely nothing in that passage that indicates Paul is writing anything figurative. We have no good reason to treat it as something non-literal, other than our subjective opinion of it. The passage itself is very clear, and nothing mentioned in it is beyond the reach of the God of the New Testament or the God of the Old Testament, so therefore, we can logically conclude that it is meant to be literal.

What does "sleeping in Jesus" mean to you ?
What does being "dead in Christ" mean to you ?
What does "the coming of the Lord" mean to you?
What does "caught up together with them in the clouds" mean to you?

Sleeping in Jesus and Dead in Christ mean dead believers. The coming of the Lord means exactly that, the Lord God coming. Caught up together with them in the clouds means brought up into heaven together with them, through the clouds. We have no logical reason, by context in the passage or by statement in the passage itself, to take this as anything other than literal.


Was Paul dead or alive in Christ when he wrote....
Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Alive in Christ. "nevertheless I live." Christ lives in him, not himself, meaning Christ is the one in his heart, not his selfish desires born of sin. He is clearly alive, and he has devoted his life to the faith of the Son of God, who sacrificed himself for our sins.

If Paul was crucified with Christ yet still living, then he was dead in Christ and also raised together with him. That is a simple example and proof that being dead in Christ is not referring to physical death. Paul was still physically alive at the time. He has no need to be raised from physical death.
You too can be crucified with Christ and raised up together with him before your physical body dies.
You become part of "the cloud" of witnesses ( Hebrews 12:1) which has been raised from spiritual death and is seated together with Christ in heavenly places.

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

It has nothing to do with Jesus coming back in a literal cloud. He, the Spirit of Truth, comes in his cloud of witnesses which is also his physical body on earth.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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2/18/2014 1:41:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 11:30:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 2/17/2014 4:45:10 PM, annanicole wrote:

I expect everyone to rise out of their graves whether they are believers or not:

"Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment."

"But some one will say, How are the dead raised? and with what manner of body do they come? Thou foolish one, that which thou thyself sowest is not quickened except it die"

"It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power"

I simply see no indication that Jesus has any need to set foot on this earth again, nor any need to reign over in Palestine for 1,000 years.

-----------------------------------------

Here is the scripture where you can see Jesus prophecy fulfilled regarding people being raised from their graves.

Matt 27:52
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Since it has already been fulfilled in scripture, why are you waiting for it to be fulfilled again?

If that was fulfilled in any literal sense don't you think there would be a lot more historical documents recording this mass resurrection as a historical event other than just one verse in the bible referring to such mass resurrection?

Jesus was not referring to literal graves.

Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

Have you been buried with him and risen out of your grave yet?

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Have you been buried with him and risen out of your grave yet?


Yep, in baptism - figuratively.

"Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection."

Since it has already been fulfilled in scripture, why are you waiting for it to be fulfilled again?

"But shun profane babblings: for they will proceed further in ungodliness, and their word will eat as doth a gangrene: or whom is Hymenaeus an Philetus; men who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already, and overthrow the faith of some."

Is that not precisely what you are doing? Are you not saying that the resurrection is past already?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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2/18/2014 2:16:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
However, no scripture exists which refers to a "second" coming.

People cum every day! How could you say that? There's plenty of examples in the Bible of this happening.

Oh, you meant THAT kind of coming.
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