Total Posts:21|Showing Posts:1-21
Jump to topic:

A Willy-Nilly Theology

s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/17/2014 5:43:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It's one thing to point out all the contradictions in the Bible; which are many. It's another thing to point out all the inconsistencies in most Christians' logic. In fact, a person would soon grow fatigued doing so.

First of all, I would like to point out, standard Christian apologetics say the "evil" mentioned in Isaiah 45:7 is speaking of "calamity". There are two problems with this. Firstly, if we consider the concept of "calamity", in contrast to "evil" in the moral sense of the word, calamity is absent responsibility. Let me explain. A person who commits a sin does so, according to Christian dogma, of his, or her, own volition. An act of calamity is beyond one's control. However, the Jewish scripture says God is responsible for "evil" in the calamitous sense of the word; and, being responsible, it is an act of volition. However, many Christians when confronted with this inconsistency say God is beyond moral obligation. Making God above, or beyond, morality would mean God is amoral; and, it would be a further contradiction, to say God is supremely, or perfectly, good.

Secondly, most theists say God is a metaphysical being, placing God beyond space and time. However, they speak of God with spatial-temporal terminology. They use prepositions to describe an event, in which God's presence was encountered. For example, saying "I felt the presence of God, really strongly, last night, at church." If the presence of God is beyond space and time, then, it would not be found "at church"; in fact, it would not be found anywhere; because, the words "at" and "anywhere" speak of place. Furthermore, if God is truly beyond time, using tensed verbs to describe "God" makes no sense.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/18/2014 12:11:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 5:43:13 PM, s-anthony wrote:
It's one thing to point out all the contradictions in the Bible; which are many. It's another thing to point out all the inconsistencies in most Christians' logic. In fact, a person would soon grow fatigued doing so.

First of all, I would like to point out, standard Christian apologetics say the "evil" mentioned in Isaiah 45:7 is speaking of "calamity". There are two problems with this. Firstly, if we consider the concept of "calamity", in contrast to "evil" in the moral sense of the word, calamity is absent responsibility. Let me explain. A person who commits a sin does so, according to Christian dogma, of his, or her, own volition. An act of calamity is beyond one's control. However, the Jewish scripture says God is responsible for "evil" in the calamitous sense of the word; and, being responsible, it is an act of volition. However, many Christians when confronted with this inconsistency say God is beyond moral obligation. Making God above, or beyond, morality would mean God is amoral; and, it would be a further contradiction, to say God is supremely, or perfectly, good.

Secondly, most theists say God is a metaphysical being, placing God beyond space and time. However, they speak of God with spatial-temporal terminology. They use prepositions to describe an event, in which God's presence was encountered. For example, saying "I felt the presence of God, really strongly, last night, at church." If the presence of God is beyond space and time, then, it would not be found "at church"; in fact, it would not be found anywhere; because, the words "at" and "anywhere" speak of place. Furthermore, if God is truly beyond time, using tensed verbs to describe "God" makes no sense.

s-anthony 1) First of all God is love! He gave man Free Choice to Love or not to love! To love is to be like God to NOT love is to be as Satan!

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.


8 "You heavens above, rain down my righteousness;
let the clouds shower it down.
Let the earth open wide,
let salvation spring up,

let righteousness flourish with it;
I, the Lord, have created it.


s-anthony "Calamity" or "Disaster" is NOT evil!! It brings about change, it proves the power of God! And ALWAYS change for the better, how many run to God when there is NO "Calamity" and how many run to God when there is?? It is always "Calamity" that turns Israel back towards God!

2) Secondly God became man!!! God entered "time" he became part of his own creation!
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/18/2014 1:04:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
So your god does create tsunamis and earthquakes et al in the full knowledge of the murders he is committing.

Sounds like love to YOU
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/18/2014 7:34:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 12:11:08 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/17/2014 5:43:13 PM, s-anthony wrote:
It's one thing to point out all the contradictions in the Bible; which are many. It's another thing to point out all the inconsistencies in most Christians' logic. In fact, a person would soon grow fatigued doing so.

First of all, I would like to point out, standard Christian apologetics say the "evil" mentioned in Isaiah 45:7 is speaking of "calamity". There are two problems with this. Firstly, if we consider the concept of "calamity", in contrast to "evil" in the moral sense of the word, calamity is absent responsibility. Let me explain. A person who commits a sin does so, according to Christian dogma, of his, or her, own volition. An act of calamity is beyond one's control. However, the Jewish scripture says God is responsible for "evil" in the calamitous sense of the word; and, being responsible, it is an act of volition. However, many Christians when confronted with this inconsistency say God is beyond moral obligation. Making God above, or beyond, morality would mean God is amoral; and, it would be a further contradiction, to say God is supremely, or perfectly, good.

Secondly, most theists say God is a metaphysical being, placing God beyond space and time. However, they speak of God with spatial-temporal terminology. They use prepositions to describe an event, in which God's presence was encountered. For example, saying "I felt the presence of God, really strongly, last night, at church." If the presence of God is beyond space and time, then, it would not be found "at church"; in fact, it would not be found anywhere; because, the words "at" and "anywhere" speak of place. Furthermore, if God is truly beyond time, using tensed verbs to describe "God" makes no sense.

s-anthony 1) First of all God is love! He gave man Free Choice to Love or not to love! To love is to be like God to NOT love is to be as Satan!

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.


8 "You heavens above, rain down my righteousness;
let the clouds shower it down.
Let the earth open wide,
let salvation spring up,

let righteousness flourish with it;
I, the Lord, have created it.


s-anthony "Calamity" or "Disaster" is NOT evil!! It brings about change, it proves the power of God! And ALWAYS change for the better, how many run to God when there is NO "Calamity" and how many run to God when there is?? It is always "Calamity" that turns Israel back towards God!

So, are you of the contention, God is mentally incompetent and is, therefore, not responsible, or God is fully aware and is, yet, above the moral law?

So, if I have a disobedient child should I kill him, to show my other children how strong I am, thereby, showing my love, for them, and in so doing, giving them a desire to love me?

2) Secondly God became man!!! God entered "time" he became part of his own creation!

So, in other words, God is not beyond space and time?
Dogknox
Posts: 5,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/18/2014 10:23:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 7:34:00 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 12:11:08 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/17/2014 5:43:13 PM, s-anthony wrote:

s-anthony 1) First of all God is love! He gave man Free Choice to Love or not to love! To love is to be like God to NOT love is to be as Satan!

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.


8 "You heavens above, rain down my righteousness;
let the clouds shower it down.
Let the earth open wide,
let salvation spring up,

let righteousness flourish with it;
I, the Lord, have created it.


s-anthony "Calamity" or "Disaster" is NOT evil!! It brings about change, it proves the power of God! And ALWAYS change for the better, how many run to God when there is NO "Calamity" and how many run to God when there is?? It is always "Calamity" that turns Israel back towards God!

So, are you of the contention, God is mentally incompetent and is, therefore, not responsible, or God is fully aware and is, yet, above the moral law?

So, if I have a disobedient child should I kill him, to show my other children how strong I am, thereby, showing my love, for them, and in so doing, giving them a desire to love me?

2) Secondly God became man!!! God entered "time" he became part of his own creation!

So, in other words, God is not beyond space and time?

Thank you for your post...
I reply if you have any children, should I kill them all.
Clearly only good parents should have children!
Clearly only good parents discipline their children!
God is a good parent.
You think it is wrong to suffer and die and it is God doing all of this against man!!!
I point out.. God suffered and died on the cross, you can't say God does not know what suffering and dying is!

God is GOOD he does everything PERFECT! He made creation PERFECT!!! He made Adam and Eve PERFECT >>SINLESS<<!!
s-anthony God did not make the sin, he did not make the corruption; these PERFECT people Adam & Eve took it upon themselves to sin! They decided to sin, they made the free will choice>>> to sin and corrupt what was PERFECTLY made!
Satan had his hands in the cause.. Satan's influence was also the cause to these PERFECT people sinning!!!

s-anthony God is fully aware, he knows exactly what he is doing! You do not know what God is doing, you do not know what you are doing!
s-anthony God is correcting the corruption caused by Adam. God destroyed DEATH when he died on the cross, sinless!! God restored LIFE when he rose from the dead.. He resurrected never, ever to die again!!!

s-anthony Death is NO MORE!!!!!!!
You are of the contention, God is mentally incompetent and is responsible!
You says.. God is above the moral law!
I say; God is PERFECT it is you who needs a little work.

God cannot sin... FACT: If God was to sin he would not be perfect, he would not be God!
THINK: "Sin brings death not God"!! The reason Jesus rose from the dead was just this: Jesus was without sin; It is sin that brings death!

You ask: What the faaa.... Then why do all peoples die????
THINK: All men are born corrupted they are formed from corrupted earth. They are formed from a corrupted creation!! All men are formed >>NOT PERFECT<<!!

Man has a "BENT" or a leaning towards sin because they are NOT perfect, they are easy to influence by Satan! Fact is, man was stuck between a rock and a hard spot until God came to earth to rescue us from death! We needed a PERFECT MAN to die so life would be restored! Adam brought death with his sin so Jesus (the second Adam) brought LIFE with his sinless death!

All peoples die because they live in a corrupted place!! Until creation can be made perfect man will continue to be born corrupted!
s-anthony all people IMMERSED into the perfect risen body of Jesus will live forever because Jesus the perfect man lives forever!
God suffered and DIED.. So you are WHACK Whack whack oooooh to accuse God of being unloving!! He is perfect love he took your place in death so you would not have to die FOREVER!!
Your body dies but your spirit cannot! WHEN...

s-anthony when all of creation is made new, then you will be made new with a perfect body!! You will just have to be patient until this happens! God does NOT he CANNOT bring death!!!
It looks to me as if Satan has his claws in you!!! Just saying...
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/18/2014 10:29:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 1:04:27 AM, bulproof wrote:
So your god does create tsunamis and earthquakes et al in the full knowledge of the murders he is committing.

A lot of things create earthquakes and tsunamis. There's nothing murderous in two tectonic plates sliding into or over each other.

Sounds like love to YOU

It sounds like the workings of the wonderous world God has gifted to all of us.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/18/2014 10:51:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 10:23:15 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/18/2014 7:34:00 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 12:11:08 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/17/2014 5:43:13 PM, s-anthony wrote:

s-anthony 1) First of all God is love! He gave man Free Choice to Love or not to love! To love is to be like God to NOT love is to be as Satan!

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.


8 "You heavens above, rain down my righteousness;
let the clouds shower it down.
Let the earth open wide,
let salvation spring up,

let righteousness flourish with it;
I, the Lord, have created it.


s-anthony "Calamity" or "Disaster" is NOT evil!! It brings about change, it proves the power of God! And ALWAYS change for the better, how many run to God when there is NO "Calamity" and how many run to God when there is?? It is always "Calamity" that turns Israel back towards God!

So, are you of the contention, God is mentally incompetent and is, therefore, not responsible, or God is fully aware and is, yet, above the moral law?

So, if I have a disobedient child should I kill him, to show my other children how strong I am, thereby, showing my love, for them, and in so doing, giving them a desire to love me?

2) Secondly God became man!!! God entered "time" he became part of his own creation!

So, in other words, God is not beyond space and time?

Thank you for your post...
I reply if you have any children, should I kill them all.
Clearly only good parents should have children!
Clearly only good parents discipline their children!
God is a good parent.
You think it is wrong to suffer and die and it is God doing all of this against man!!!
I point out.. God suffered and died on the cross, you can't say God does not know what suffering and dying is!

God is GOOD he does everything PERFECT! He made creation PERFECT!!! He made Adam and Eve PERFECT >>SINLESS<<!!
s-anthony God did not make the sin, he did not make the corruption; these PERFECT people Adam & Eve took it upon themselves to sin! They decided to sin, they made the free will choice>>> to sin and corrupt what was PERFECTLY made!
Satan had his hands in the cause.. Satan's influence was also the cause to these PERFECT people sinning!!!

s-anthony God is fully aware, he knows exactly what he is doing! You do not know what God is doing, you do not know what you are doing!
s-anthony God is correcting the corruption caused by Adam. God destroyed DEATH when he died on the cross, sinless!! God restored LIFE when he rose from the dead.. He resurrected never, ever to die again!!!

s-anthony Death is NO MORE!!!!!!!
You are of the contention, God is mentally incompetent and is responsible!
You says.. God is above the moral law!
I say; God is PERFECT it is you who needs a little work.

So, I guess this means God is morally responsible. Correct?


God cannot sin... FACT: If God was to sin he would not be perfect, he would not be God!
THINK: "Sin brings death not God"!! The reason Jesus rose from the dead was just this: Jesus was without sin; It is sin that brings death!

So, in the verse: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Is God lying, in saying, "I...create evil...:"?


You ask: What the faaa.... Then why do all peoples die????
THINK: All men are born corrupted they are formed from corrupted earth. They are formed from a corrupted creation!! All men are formed >>NOT PERFECT<<!!

Man has a "BENT" or a leaning towards sin because they are NOT perfect, they are easy to influence by Satan! Fact is, man was stuck between a rock and a hard spot until God came to earth to rescue us from death! We needed a PERFECT MAN to die so life would be restored! Adam brought death with his sin so Jesus (the second Adam) brought LIFE with his sinless death!

All peoples die because they live in a corrupted place!! Until creation can be made perfect man will continue to be born corrupted!
s-anthony all people IMMERSED into the perfect risen body of Jesus will live forever because Jesus the perfect man lives forever!
God suffered and DIED.. So you are WHACK Whack whack oooooh to accuse God of being unloving!! He is perfect love he took your place in death so you would not have to die FOREVER!!
Your body dies but your spirit cannot! WHEN...

s-anthony when all of creation is made new, then you will be made new with a perfect body!! You will just have to be patient until this happens! God does NOT he CANNOT bring death!!!
It looks to me as if Satan has his claws in you!!! Just saying...
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/18/2014 11:05:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 10:29:36 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 2/18/2014 1:04:27 AM, bulproof wrote:
So your god does create tsunamis and earthquakes et al in the full knowledge of the murders he is committing.

A lot of things create earthquakes and tsunamis. There's nothing murderous in two tectonic plates sliding into or over each other.

I have no problem with saying there are no moral absolutes. Therefore, I do not hold to the concept God is absolutely good. Death, whether you believe it comes by the hand of God, nature, or another human being is not absolutely evil; it is evil in as much as we see it as evil. Yet, to someone else, your death, my death, irregardless of the means used to facilitate it, may be seen as beneficial.


Sounds like love to YOU

It sounds like the workings of the wonderous world God has gifted to all of us.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/18/2014 2:33:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 10:51:43 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 10:23:15 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/18/2014 7:34:00 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 12:11:08 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/17/2014 5:43:13 PM, s-anthony wrote:

s-anthony 1) First of all God is love! He gave man Free Choice to Love or not to love! To love is to be like God to NOT love is to be as Satan!

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.


8 "You heavens above, rain down my righteousness;
let the clouds shower it down.
Let the earth open wide,
let salvation spring up,

let righteousness flourish with it;
I, the Lord, have created it.


s-anthony "Calamity" or "Disaster" is NOT evil!! It brings about change, it proves the power of God! And ALWAYS change for the better, how many run to God when there is NO "Calamity" and how many run to God when there is?? It is always "Calamity" that turns Israel back towards God!

So, are you of the contention, God is mentally incompetent and is, therefore, not responsible, or God is fully aware and is, yet, above the moral law?

So, if I have a disobedient child should I kill him, to show my other children how strong I am, thereby, showing my love, for them, and in so doing, giving them a desire to love me?

2) Secondly God became man!!! God entered "time" he became part of his own creation!

So, in other words, God is not beyond space and time?

Thank you for your post...
I reply if you have any children, should I kill them all.
Clearly only good parents should have children!
Clearly only good parents discipline their children!
God is a good parent.
You think it is wrong to suffer and die and it is God doing all of this against man!!!
I point out.. God suffered and died on the cross, you can't say God does not know what suffering and dying is!

God is GOOD he does everything PERFECT! He made creation PERFECT!!! He made Adam and Eve PERFECT >>SINLESS<<!!
s-anthony God did not make the sin, he did not make the corruption; these PERFECT people Adam & Eve took it upon themselves to sin! They decided to sin, they made the free will choice>>> to sin and corrupt what was PERFECTLY made!
Satan had his hands in the cause.. Satan's influence was also the cause to these PERFECT people sinning!!!

s-anthony God is fully aware, he knows exactly what he is doing! You do not know what God is doing, you do not know what you are doing!
s-anthony God is correcting the corruption caused by Adam. God destroyed DEATH when he died on the cross, sinless!! God restored LIFE when he rose from the dead.. He resurrected never, ever to die again!!!

s-anthony Death is NO MORE!!!!!!!
You are of the contention, God is mentally incompetent and is responsible!
You says.. God is above the moral law!
I say; God is PERFECT it is you who needs a little work.

So, I guess this means God is morally responsible. Correct?


God cannot sin... FACT: If God was to sin he would not be perfect, he would not be God!
THINK: "Sin brings death not God"!! The reason Jesus rose from the dead was just this: Jesus was without sin; It is sin that brings death!

So, in the verse: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Is God lying, in saying, "I...create evil...:"?

God CANNOT LIE! You must read it in CONTEXT!!
Clearly; This is the reason you are confused: You have taken on the job of "Biblical Scholar"!
s-anthony You naively ask your questions then turn around and answer your same questions as a know it all "Biblical Scholar"!
You are NOT the expert: IF...
s-anthony if you are drawn to accusing God then this is when YOU MUST......

s-anthony you must STOP and ask yourself if you have arrived at your conclusion correctly! You must ask "Am I being tutored or influenced by Satan, then I s-anthony accuse God of SIN!!???
James 1:13
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

Amos 3:10
"They do not know how to do right," declares the LORD, "who hoard plunder and loot in their fortresses."
11 Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: "An enemy will overrun the land; he will pull down your strongholds and plunder your fortresses."


WHY.....
s-anthony why does the Lord cause an enemy to overrun the land!!??
Because: "They do not know how to do right,"
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/18/2014 2:51:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 2:33:25 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/18/2014 10:51:43 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 10:23:15 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/18/2014 7:34:00 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 12:11:08 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/17/2014 5:43:13 PM, s-anthony wrote:

s-anthony 1) First of all God is love! He gave man Free Choice to Love or not to love! To love is to be like God to NOT love is to be as Satan!

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.


8 "You heavens above, rain down my righteousness;
let the clouds shower it down.
Let the earth open wide,
let salvation spring up,

let righteousness flourish with it;
I, the Lord, have created it.


s-anthony "Calamity" or "Disaster" is NOT evil!! It brings about change, it proves the power of God! And ALWAYS change for the better, how many run to God when there is NO "Calamity" and how many run to God when there is?? It is always "Calamity" that turns Israel back towards God!

So, are you of the contention, God is mentally incompetent and is, therefore, not responsible, or God is fully aware and is, yet, above the moral law?

So, if I have a disobedient child should I kill him, to show my other children how strong I am, thereby, showing my love, for them, and in so doing, giving them a desire to love me?

2) Secondly God became man!!! God entered "time" he became part of his own creation!

So, in other words, God is not beyond space and time?

Thank you for your post...
I reply if you have any children, should I kill them all.
Clearly only good parents should have children!
Clearly only good parents discipline their children!
God is a good parent.
You think it is wrong to suffer and die and it is God doing all of this against man!!!
I point out.. God suffered and died on the cross, you can't say God does not know what suffering and dying is!

God is GOOD he does everything PERFECT! He made creation PERFECT!!! He made Adam and Eve PERFECT >>SINLESS<<!!
s-anthony God did not make the sin, he did not make the corruption; these PERFECT people Adam & Eve took it upon themselves to sin! They decided to sin, they made the free will choice>>> to sin and corrupt what was PERFECTLY made!
Satan had his hands in the cause.. Satan's influence was also the cause to these PERFECT people sinning!!!

s-anthony God is fully aware, he knows exactly what he is doing! You do not know what God is doing, you do not know what you are doing!
s-anthony God is correcting the corruption caused by Adam. God destroyed DEATH when he died on the cross, sinless!! God restored LIFE when he rose from the dead.. He resurrected never, ever to die again!!!

s-anthony Death is NO MORE!!!!!!!
You are of the contention, God is mentally incompetent and is responsible!
You says.. God is above the moral law!
I say; God is PERFECT it is you who needs a little work.

So, I guess this means God is morally responsible. Correct?


God cannot sin... FACT: If God was to sin he would not be perfect, he would not be God!
THINK: "Sin brings death not God"!! The reason Jesus rose from the dead was just this: Jesus was without sin; It is sin that brings death!

So, in the verse: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Is God lying, in saying, "I...create evil...:"?

So, please, tell me, what does God mean, in saying, "I...create evil...:".

God CANNOT LIE! You must read it in CONTEXT!!
Clearly; This is the reason you are confused: You have taken on the job of "Biblical Scholar"!
s-anthony You naively ask your questions then turn around and answer your same questions as a know it all "Biblical Scholar"!
You are NOT the expert: IF...
s-anthony if you are drawn to accusing God then this is when YOU MUST......

s-anthony you must STOP and ask yourself if you have arrived at your conclusion correctly! You must ask "Am I being tutored or influenced by Satan, then I s-anthony accuse God of SIN!!???
James 1:13
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

Amos 3:10
"They do not know how to do right," declares the LORD, "who hoard plunder and loot in their fortresses."
11 Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: "An enemy will overrun the land; he will pull down your strongholds and plunder your fortresses."


WHY.....
s-anthony why does the Lord cause an enemy to overrun the land!!??
Because: "They do not know how to do right,"

Earlier, you said God does not bring death; now, you're saying the Lord causes the enemy to overrun the land. Which is it? Does God bring death and destruction, or not?
Dogknox
Posts: 5,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/18/2014 4:34:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 2:51:46 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 2:33:25 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/18/2014 10:51:43 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 10:23:15 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/18/2014 7:34:00 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 12:11:08 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/17/2014 5:43:13 PM, s-anthony wrote:

s-anthony 1) First of all God is love! He gave man Free Choice to Love or not to love! To love is to be like God to NOT love is to be as Satan!

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.


8 "You heavens above, rain down my righteousness;
let the clouds shower it down.
Let the earth open wide,
let salvation spring up,

let righteousness flourish with it;
I, the Lord, have created it.


s-anthony "Calamity" or "Disaster" is NOT evil!! It brings about change, it proves the power of God! And ALWAYS change for the better, how many run to God when there is NO "Calamity" and how many run to God when there is?? It is always "Calamity" that turns Israel back towards God!

So, are you of the contention, God is mentally incompetent and is, therefore, not responsible, or God is fully aware and is, yet, above the moral law?

So, if I have a disobedient child should I kill him, to show my other children how strong I am, thereby, showing my love, for them, and in so doing, giving them a desire to love me?

2) Secondly God became man!!! God entered "time" he became part of his own creation!

So, in other words, God is not beyond space and time?

Thank you for your post...
I reply if you have any children, should I kill them all.
Clearly only good parents should have children!
Clearly only good parents discipline their children!
God is a good parent.
You think it is wrong to suffer and die and it is God doing all of this against man!!!
I point out.. God suffered and died on the cross, you can't say God does not know what suffering and dying is!

God is GOOD he does everything PERFECT! He made creation PERFECT!!! He made Adam and Eve PERFECT >>SINLESS<<!!
s-anthony God did not make the sin, he did not make the corruption; these PERFECT people Adam & Eve took it upon themselves to sin! They decided to sin, they made the free will choice>>> to sin and corrupt what was PERFECTLY made!
Satan had his hands in the cause.. Satan's influence was also the cause to these PERFECT people sinning!!!

s-anthony God is fully aware, he knows exactly what he is doing! You do not know what God is doing, you do not know what you are doing!
s-anthony God is correcting the corruption caused by Adam. God destroyed DEATH when he died on the cross, sinless!! God restored LIFE when he rose from the dead.. He resurrected never, ever to die again!!!

s-anthony Death is NO MORE!!!!!!!
You are of the contention, God is mentally incompetent and is responsible!
You says.. God is above the moral law!
I say; God is PERFECT it is you who needs a little work.

So, I guess this means God is morally responsible. Correct?


God cannot sin... FACT: If God was to sin he would not be perfect, he would not be God!
THINK: "Sin brings death not God"!! The reason Jesus rose from the dead was just this: Jesus was without sin; It is sin that brings death!

So, in the verse: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Is God lying, in saying, "I...create evil...:"?

So, please, tell me, what does God mean, in saying, "I...create evil...:".

God CANNOT LIE! You must read it in CONTEXT!!
Clearly; This is the reason you are confused: You have taken on the job of "Biblical Scholar"!
s-anthony You naively ask your questions then turn around and answer your same questions as a know it all "Biblical Scholar"!
You are NOT the expert: IF...
s-anthony if you are drawn to accusing God then this is when YOU MUST......

s-anthony you must STOP and ask yourself if you have arrived at your conclusion correctly! You must ask "Am I being tutored or influenced by Satan, then I s-anthony accuse God of SIN!!???
James 1:13
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

Amos 3:10
"They do not know how to do right," declares the LORD, "who hoard plunder and loot in their fortresses."
11 Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: "An enemy will overrun the land; he will pull down your strongholds and plunder your fortresses."


WHY.....
s-anthony why does the Lord cause an enemy to overrun the land!!??
Because: "They do not know how to do right,"

Earlier, you said God does not bring death; now, you're saying the Lord causes the enemy to overrun the land. Which is it? Does God bring death and destruction, or not?

Wait a minute.. God did not make death.. Sin did.. Man caused death to enter God' perfect creation! Man made his choice.. Man did choose to sin, it was a CHOICE of Man not God!

FACT: Death is in creation.... All who die with sin are Satan's children, Satan is their father!

s-anthony God did not bring death, God is perfect, he made man perfect! The PERFECT MAN decided to reject God and sin, just as Satan! Death is the result of sin!!

Death is in the world... All who sin die.
God is almighty he changes what is bad into what is good.
He died... But his dying brought LIFE in his rising! God is GOOD he is love!
God might leave those who work against him to their own destruction it is his prerogative!

Twist it all you want...... My question is WHY??? Why would any one reject God?? Satan rejects God we know, I suppose anyone in Satan's grasp would also want to do as Satan! s-anthony What do you think!!?

You are not thinking correctly...
Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

I say; You are being swept up in league with spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms, our struggle is not against flesh and blood

Another translation...
Ephesians 6:12 We aren"t fighting against human enemies but against rulers, authorities, forces of cosmic darkness, and spiritual powers of evil in the heavens.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/18/2014 7:37:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 4:34:27 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/18/2014 2:51:46 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 2:33:25 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/18/2014 10:51:43 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 10:23:15 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/18/2014 7:34:00 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 12:11:08 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/17/2014 5:43:13 PM, s-anthony wrote:

s-anthony 1) First of all God is love! He gave man Free Choice to Love or not to love! To love is to be like God to NOT love is to be as Satan!

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.


8 "You heavens above, rain down my righteousness;
let the clouds shower it down.
Let the earth open wide,
let salvation spring up,

let righteousness flourish with it;
I, the Lord, have created it.


s-anthony "Calamity" or "Disaster" is NOT evil!! It brings about change, it proves the power of God! And ALWAYS change for the better, how many run to God when there is NO "Calamity" and how many run to God when there is?? It is always "Calamity" that turns Israel back towards God!

So, are you of the contention, God is mentally incompetent and is, therefore, not responsible, or God is fully aware and is, yet, above the moral law?

So, if I have a disobedient child should I kill him, to show my other children how strong I am, thereby, showing my love, for them, and in so doing, giving them a desire to love me?

2) Secondly God became man!!! God entered "time" he became part of his own creation!

So, in other words, God is not beyond space and time?

Thank you for your post...
I reply if you have any children, should I kill them all.
Clearly only good parents should have children!
Clearly only good parents discipline their children!
God is a good parent.
You think it is wrong to suffer and die and it is God doing all of this against man!!!
I point out.. God suffered and died on the cross, you can't say God does not know what suffering and dying is!

God is GOOD he does everything PERFECT! He made creation PERFECT!!! He made Adam and Eve PERFECT >>SINLESS<<!!
s-anthony God did not make the sin, he did not make the corruption; these PERFECT people Adam & Eve took it upon themselves to sin! They decided to sin, they made the free will choice>>> to sin and corrupt what was PERFECTLY made!
Satan had his hands in the cause.. Satan's influence was also the cause to these PERFECT people sinning!!!

s-anthony God is fully aware, he knows exactly what he is doing! You do not know what God is doing, you do not know what you are doing!
s-anthony God is correcting the corruption caused by Adam. God destroyed DEATH when he died on the cross, sinless!! God restored LIFE when he rose from the dead.. He resurrected never, ever to die again!!!

s-anthony Death is NO MORE!!!!!!!
You are of the contention, God is mentally incompetent and is responsible!
You says.. God is above the moral law!
I say; God is PERFECT it is you who needs a little work.

So, I guess this means God is morally responsible. Correct?


God cannot sin... FACT: If God was to sin he would not be perfect, he would not be God!
THINK: "Sin brings death not God"!! The reason Jesus rose from the dead was just this: Jesus was without sin; It is sin that brings death!

So, in the verse: "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Is God lying, in saying, "I...create evil...:"?

So, please, tell me, what does God mean, in saying, "I...create evil...:".

God CANNOT LIE! You must read it in CONTEXT!!
Clearly; This is the reason you are confused: You have taken on the job of "Biblical Scholar"!
s-anthony You naively ask your questions then turn around and answer your same questions as a know it all "Biblical Scholar"!
You are NOT the expert: IF...
s-anthony if you are drawn to accusing God then this is when YOU MUST......

s-anthony you must STOP and ask yourself if you have arrived at your conclusion correctly! You must ask "Am I being tutored or influenced by Satan, then I s-anthony accuse God of SIN!!???
James 1:13
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;

Amos 3:10
"They do not know how to do right," declares the LORD, "who hoard plunder and loot in their fortresses."
11 Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: "An enemy will overrun the land; he will pull down your strongholds and plunder your fortresses."


WHY.....
s-anthony why does the Lord cause an enemy to overrun the land!!??
Because: "They do not know how to do right,"

Earlier, you said God does not bring death; now, you're saying the Lord causes the enemy to overrun the land. Which is it? Does God bring death and destruction, or not?

Wait a minute.. God did not make death.. Sin did.. Man caused death to enter God' perfect creation! Man made his choice.. Man did choose to sin, it was a CHOICE of Man not God!

Who created our mortal bodies?

FACT: Death is in creation.... All who die with sin are Satan's children, Satan is their father!

s-anthony God did not bring death, God is perfect, he made man perfect! The PERFECT MAN decided to reject God and sin, just as Satan! Death is the result of sin!!

Death is in the world... All who sin die.
God is almighty he changes what is bad into what is good.
He died... But his dying brought LIFE in his rising! God is GOOD he is love!
God might leave those who work against him to their own destruction it is his prerogative!

Twist it all you want...... My question is WHY??? Why would any one reject God?? Satan rejects God we know, I suppose anyone in Satan's grasp would also want to do as Satan! s-anthony What do you think!!?

You are not thinking correctly...
Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

I say; You are being swept up in league with spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms, our struggle is not against flesh and blood

Another translation...
Ephesians 6:12 We aren"t fighting against human enemies but against rulers, authorities, forces of cosmic darkness, and spiritual powers of evil in the heavens.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/18/2014 9:26:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 7:37:31 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 4:34:27 PM, Dogknox wrote:
You ask a good question... Who created our mortal bodies?

I reply: God created man immortal!!!
LOOK... Tree one (1)... the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
Genesis 2:16
And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."


Tree two (2) the tree of life
Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

s-anthony Two two two trees not just one!!!!!
Clearly Adam and Eve lost access to the "tree of Life" so they died! They ate from this tree "the tree Of Life" all they wanted and they would have lived forever IMMORTAL; They could not eat so they died!!!!

DID YOU...
s-anthony did you read this (above verse) He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

All must eat to live.. FACT: If you do not eat you die.. You starve to death!!!
LOOK...
John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

Jesus is the LIFE!!! (above)

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
&
35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.

The LIFE comes down from heaven!! "I am the bread of life!!!!!

s-anthony I live forever because I eat >>LIFE<< I eat the fruit Adam and Eve were not allowed to eat any more because they were removed from the "Tree Of Life"!

God created our bodies to be immortal!
My body will be returned to me "Glorified" at the end of the age when God recreates the heavens and the earth!
Revelation 21:1
Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Sin made us MORTAL until the sin of Adam man was IMMORTAL!
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/19/2014 12:07:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 9:26:12 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/18/2014 7:37:31 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 4:34:27 PM, Dogknox wrote:
You ask a good question... Who created our mortal bodies?

I reply: God created man immortal!!!
LOOK... Tree one (1)... the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
Genesis 2:16
And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."


Tree two (2) the tree of life
Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

s-anthony Two two two trees not just one!!!!!
Clearly Adam and Eve lost access to the "tree of Life" so they died! They ate from this tree "the tree Of Life" all they wanted and they would have lived forever IMMORTAL; They could not eat so they died!!!!

DID YOU...
s-anthony did you read this (above verse) He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

All must eat to live.. FACT: If you do not eat you die.. You starve to death!!!
LOOK...
John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

Jesus is the LIFE!!! (above)

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
&
35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.

The LIFE comes down from heaven!! "I am the bread of life!!!!!

s-anthony I live forever because I eat >>LIFE<< I eat the fruit Adam and Eve were not allowed to eat any more because they were removed from the "Tree Of Life"!

God created our bodies to be immortal!
My body will be returned to me "Glorified" at the end of the age when God recreates the heavens and the earth!
Revelation 21:1
Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Sin made us MORTAL until the sin of Adam man was IMMORTAL!

Let me make this as simple as I know how.

1. Who made your present body?

2. Is your present body mortal or immortal?
Dogknox
Posts: 5,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2014 12:08:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/19/2014 12:07:36 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 9:26:12 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/18/2014 7:37:31 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 4:34:27 PM, Dogknox wrote:
You ask a good question... Who created our mortal bodies?

I reply: God created man immortal!!!
LOOK... Tree one (1)... the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
Genesis 2:16
And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."


Tree two (2) the tree of life
Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

s-anthony Two two two trees not just one!!!!!
Clearly Adam and Eve lost access to the "tree of Life" so they died! They ate from this tree "the tree Of Life" all they wanted and they would have lived forever IMMORTAL; They could not eat so they died!!!!

DID YOU...
s-anthony did you read this (above verse) He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

All must eat to live.. FACT: If you do not eat you die.. You starve to death!!!
LOOK...
John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

Jesus is the LIFE!!! (above)

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
&
35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.

The LIFE comes down from heaven!! "I am the bread of life!!!!!

s-anthony I live forever because I eat >>LIFE<< I eat the fruit Adam and Eve were not allowed to eat any more because they were removed from the "Tree Of Life"!

God created our bodies to be immortal!
My body will be returned to me "Glorified" at the end of the age when God recreates the heavens and the earth!
Revelation 21:1
Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Sin made us MORTAL until the sin of Adam man was IMMORTAL!

Let me make this as simple as I know how.

1. Who made your present body?

2. Is your present body mortal or immortal?

1) God made my body!
2) My body is mortal! BUT...
s-anthony but God will give me an IMMORTAL body at my resurrection!!

Every one will lose there body to death and decay.. All will rise immortal ALL....

s-anthony all will be immortal even you: Never ever to die again! Jesus destroyed death on the cross!

s-anthony the man who ends up in Hell (Gehenna, Lake of fire) will try all manner of way to die, just to end their suffering!! They can't die so they will curse Jesus, they will blame him for their predicament! All they will end up doing in their attempts to kill them selves is increasing their pain and agony!

Eternal suffering!!
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2014 7:26:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/20/2014 12:08:37 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/19/2014 12:07:36 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 9:26:12 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/18/2014 7:37:31 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 4:34:27 PM, Dogknox wrote:
You ask a good question... Who created our mortal bodies?

I reply: God created man immortal!!!
LOOK... Tree one (1)... the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
Genesis 2:16
And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."


Tree two (2) the tree of life
Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

s-anthony Two two two trees not just one!!!!!
Clearly Adam and Eve lost access to the "tree of Life" so they died! They ate from this tree "the tree Of Life" all they wanted and they would have lived forever IMMORTAL; They could not eat so they died!!!!

DID YOU...
s-anthony did you read this (above verse) He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

All must eat to live.. FACT: If you do not eat you die.. You starve to death!!!
LOOK...
John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

Jesus is the LIFE!!! (above)

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
&
35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.

The LIFE comes down from heaven!! "I am the bread of life!!!!!

s-anthony I live forever because I eat >>LIFE<< I eat the fruit Adam and Eve were not allowed to eat any more because they were removed from the "Tree Of Life"!

God created our bodies to be immortal!
My body will be returned to me "Glorified" at the end of the age when God recreates the heavens and the earth!
Revelation 21:1
Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Sin made us MORTAL until the sin of Adam man was IMMORTAL!

Let me make this as simple as I know how.

1. Who made your present body?

2. Is your present body mortal or immortal?

1) God made my body!
2) My body is mortal! BUT...
s-anthony but God will give me an IMMORTAL body at my resurrection!!

Every one will lose there body to death and decay.. All will rise immortal ALL....

s-anthony all will be immortal even you: Never ever to die again! Jesus destroyed death on the cross!

s-anthony the man who ends up in Hell (Gehenna, Lake of fire) will try all manner of way to die, just to end their suffering!! They can't die so they will curse Jesus, they will blame him for their predicament! All they will end up doing in their attempts to kill them selves is increasing their pain and agony!

Eternal suffering!!

So, simply put. If God made your mortal body and "mortal" means "death", then, God made death.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2014 9:32:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/20/2014 7:26:05 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/20/2014 12:08:37 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/19/2014 12:07:36 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 9:26:12 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/18/2014 7:37:31 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 4:34:27 PM, Dogknox wrote:
You ask a good question... Who created our mortal bodies?

I reply: God created man immortal!!!
LOOK... Tree one (1)... the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
Genesis 2:16
And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."


Tree two (2) the tree of life
Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

s-anthony Two two two trees not just one!!!!!
Clearly Adam and Eve lost access to the "tree of Life" so they died! They ate from this tree "the tree Of Life" all they wanted and they would have lived forever IMMORTAL; They could not eat so they died!!!!

DID YOU...
s-anthony did you read this (above verse) He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

All must eat to live.. FACT: If you do not eat you die.. You starve to death!!!
LOOK...
John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

Jesus is the LIFE!!! (above)

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
&
35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.

The LIFE comes down from heaven!! "I am the bread of life!!!!!

s-anthony I live forever because I eat >>LIFE<< I eat the fruit Adam and Eve were not allowed to eat any more because they were removed from the "Tree Of Life"!

God created our bodies to be immortal!
My body will be returned to me "Glorified" at the end of the age when God recreates the heavens and the earth!
Revelation 21:1
Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Sin made us MORTAL until the sin of Adam man was IMMORTAL!

Let me make this as simple as I know how.

1. Who made your present body?

2. Is your present body mortal or immortal?

1) God made my body!
2) My body is mortal! BUT...
s-anthony but God will give me an IMMORTAL body at my resurrection!!

Every one will lose there body to death and decay.. All will rise immortal ALL....

s-anthony all will be immortal even you: Never ever to die again! Jesus destroyed death on the cross!

s-anthony the man who ends up in Hell (Gehenna, Lake of fire) will try all manner of way to die, just to end their suffering!! They can't die so they will curse Jesus, they will blame him for their predicament! All they will end up doing in their attempts to kill them selves is increasing their pain and agony!

Eternal suffering!!

So, simply put. If God made your mortal body and "mortal" means "death", then, God made death.
NO God did not make death.. Man did!
God made the first man IMMORTAL; HOW? Simple.. He used PERFECT creation to form the perfect man! He took PERFECT EARTH formed the man PERFECT,thus the first man was formed PERFECT because he was formed from PERFECT creation!

The first PERFECT IMMORTAL Man sinned he brought death into God' perfect creation!
God being PERFECT did not quit!!!!

Man is still being formed but now.. >> NOT << from perfect creation but from Imperfect creation!! LOGIC alone says... To make a perfect creation, you need perfect material!
No one uses corrupted building material to build a house, it will not last/stand! All men are formed imperfect because creation has been tainted! SURE....
s-anthony sure Jesus fixed the error of Adam, he corrected the sin of the first man by taking the punishment onto himself! BUT...
Big "but"!! But; creation is still corrupted.... It will not be repaired until the end of time!! Until it is repaired and re-made perfect; Man is still being formed from corrupted material!!
Being ADDED to the Perfect body of Jesus, by IMMERSION into Jesus, saves all men!!

Baptism ADDS people to the PERFECT risen Body of Jesus.. ALL...
s-anthony all IN Jesus' perfect body will rise, they are God' adopted children, they will sit to the right of the Father BECAUSE...

s-anthony because to the right of the father is where Jesus sits!

Man will Judge Angels because Jesus judges angels!
SATAN hates you... he hates all men, he hates you because, he is NOT sitting to the right of God!! PRIDE is the first and greatest sin!

1 Corinthians 6:3
Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2014 10:15:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/20/http://theweek.com... 9:32:49 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/20/2014 7:26:05 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/20/2014 12:08:37 AM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/19/2014 12:07:36 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 9:26:12 PM, Dogknox wrote:
At 2/18/2014 7:37:31 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/18/2014 4:34:27 PM, Dogknox wrote:
You ask a good question... Who created our mortal bodies?

I reply: God created man immortal!!!
LOOK... Tree one (1)... the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
Genesis 2:16
And the Lord God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die."


Tree two (2) the tree of life
Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

s-anthony Two two two trees not just one!!!!!
Clearly Adam and Eve lost access to the "tree of Life" so they died! They ate from this tree "the tree Of Life" all they wanted and they would have lived forever IMMORTAL; They could not eat so they died!!!!

DID YOU...
s-anthony did you read this (above verse) He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.

All must eat to live.. FACT: If you do not eat you die.. You starve to death!!!
LOOK...
John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;

Jesus is the LIFE!!! (above)

John 6:51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
&
35 Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.

The LIFE comes down from heaven!! "I am the bread of life!!!!!

s-anthony I live forever because I eat >>LIFE<< I eat the fruit Adam and Eve were not allowed to eat any more because they were removed from the "Tree Of Life"!

God created our bodies to be immortal!
My body will be returned to me "Glorified" at the end of the age when God recreates the heavens and the earth!
Revelation 21:1
Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Sin made us MORTAL until the sin of Adam man was IMMORTAL!

Let me make this as simple as I know how.

1. Who made your present body?

2. Is your present body mortal or immortal?

1) God made my body!
2) My body is mortal! BUT...
s-anthony but God will give me an IMMORTAL body at my resurrection!!

Every one will lose there body to death and decay.. All will rise immortal ALL....

s-anthony all will be immortal even you: Never ever to die again! Jesus destroyed death on the cross!

s-anthony the man who ends up in Hell (Gehenna, Lake of fire) will try all manner of way to die, just to end their suffering!! They can't die so they will curse Jesus, they will blame him for their predicament! All they will end up doing in their attempts to kill them selves is increasing their pain and agony!

Eternal suffering!!

So, simply put. If God made your mortal body and "mortal" means "death", then, God made death.
NO God did not make death.. Man did!
God made the first man IMMORTAL; HOW? Simple.. He used PERFECT creation to form the perfect man! He took PERFECT EARTH formed the man PERFECT,thus the first man was formed PERFECT because he was formed from PERFECT creation!

The first PERFECT IMMORTAL Man sinned he brought death into God' perfect creation!
God being PERFECT did not quit!!!!

Man is still being formed but now.. >> NOT << from perfect creation but from Imperfect creation!! LOGIC alone says... To make a perfect creation, you need perfect material!
No one uses corrupted building material to build a house, it will not last/stand! All men are formed imperfect because creation has been tainted! SURE....
s-anthony sure Jesus fixed the error of Adam, he corrected the sin of the first man by taking the punishment onto himself! BUT...
Big "but"!! But; creation is still corrupted.... It will not be repaired until the end of time!! Until it is repaired and re-made perfect; Man is still being formed from corrupted material!!
Being ADDED to the Perfect body of Jesus, by IMMERSION into Jesus, saves all men!!

Baptism ADDS people to the PERFECT risen Body of Jesus.. ALL...
s-anthony all IN Jesus' perfect body will rise, they are God' adopted children, they will sit to the right of the Father BECAUSE...

s-anthony because to the right of the father is where Jesus sits!

Man will Judge Angels because Jesus judges angels!
SATAN hates you... he hates all men, he hates you because, he is NOT sitting to the right of God!! PRIDE is the first and greatest sin!

1 Corinthians 6:3
Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

You said, "No one uses corrupted building material to build a house...,". Well, apparently God does; because, you said, "God made my body!".

It's funny how even though you're constantly taking back that which you said, previously, hoping the person on the other end of the conversation has amnesia, you keep spouting your deceitful garbage. I know it's more gracious, for me, to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you haven't the slightest idea as to that which you're doing; but, I find it really hard to believe this isn't intentional. I could understand it, if it only happened occasionally or if you were to say I changed my mind; but, it happens all the time; and, frequently the contradiction is made in one sentence; and, if that weren't enough, you go on to repeat the contradiction, ad nauseam.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2014 10:24:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 5:43:13 PM, s-anthony wrote:
It's one thing to point out all the contradictions in the Bible; which are many. It's another thing to point out all the inconsistencies in most Christians' logic. In fact, a person would soon grow fatigued doing so.

First of all, I would like to point out, standard Christian apologetics say the "evil" mentioned in Isaiah 45:7 is speaking of "calamity". There are two problems with this. Firstly, if we consider the concept of "calamity", in contrast to "evil" in the moral sense of the word, calamity is absent responsibility. Let me explain. A person who commits a sin does so, according to Christian dogma, of his, or her, own volition. An act of calamity is beyond one's control. However, the Jewish scripture says God is responsible for "evil" in the calamitous sense of the word; and, being responsible, it is an act of volition. However, many Christians when confronted with this inconsistency say God is beyond moral obligation. Making God above, or beyond, morality would mean God is amoral; and, it would be a further contradiction, to say God is supremely, or perfectly, good.

Secondly, most theists say God is a metaphysical being, placing God beyond space and time. However, they speak of God with spatial-temporal terminology. They use prepositions to describe an event, in which God's presence was encountered. For example, saying "I felt the presence of God, really strongly, last night, at church." If the presence of God is beyond space and time, then, it would not be found "at church"; in fact, it would not be found anywhere; because, the words "at" and "anywhere" speak of place. Furthermore, if God is truly beyond time, using tensed verbs to describe "God" makes no sense.

Great point, S-anthony.

This is why, as a theologian myself, I reject that the Christian assertion that God is good. He is, from a human perspective, quite evil and manipulative. But then in my theology, God is a devil.

I'm actually a dystheist - someone that believes God exist but is not entirely good. Where a Christian worldview presents God as separate from an evil devil, my worldview adheres to a God that is both good and evil, or God and devil. God is one and the same.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2014 10:26:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/17/2014 5:43:13 PM, s-anthony wrote:
It's one thing to point out all the contradictions in the Bible; which are many. It's another thing to point out all the inconsistencies in most Christians' logic. In fact, a person would soon grow fatigued doing so.

First of all, I would like to point out, standard Christian apologetics say the "evil" mentioned in Isaiah 45:7 is speaking of "calamity". There are two problems with this. Firstly, if we consider the concept of "calamity", in contrast to "evil" in the moral sense of the word, calamity is absent responsibility. Let me explain. A person who commits a sin does so, according to Christian dogma, of his, or her, own volition. An act of calamity is beyond one's control. However, the Jewish scripture says God is responsible for "evil" in the calamitous sense of the word; and, being responsible, it is an act of volition. However, many Christians when confronted with this inconsistency say God is beyond moral obligation. Making God above, or beyond, morality would mean God is amoral; and, it would be a further contradiction, to say God is supremely, or perfectly, good.

Secondly, most theists say God is a metaphysical being, placing God beyond space and time. However, they speak of God with spatial-temporal terminology. They use prepositions to describe an event, in which God's presence was encountered. For example, saying "I felt the presence of God, really strongly, last night, at church." If the presence of God is beyond space and time, then, it would not be found "at church"; in fact, it would not be found anywhere; because, the words "at" and "anywhere" speak of place. Furthermore, if God is truly beyond time, using tensed verbs to describe "God" makes no sense.

As for your second point, I adhere to the belief that God is in both space and time - not separated from it. In fact, God is space and time. He is the physical universe itself - and it is super-intelligent and has means by which it can communicate its will and concerns to man.
Dogknox
Posts: 5,039
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/20/2014 10:38:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/20/2014 10:15:53 AM, s-anthony wrote:

It's funny how even though you're constantly taking back that which you said, previously, hoping the person on the other end of the conversation has amnesia, you keep spouting your deceitful garbage. I know it's more gracious, for me, to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you haven't the slightest idea as to that which you're doing; but, I find it really hard to believe this isn't intentional. I could understand it, if it only happened occasionally or if you were to say I changed my mind; but, it happens all the time; and, frequently the contradiction is made in one sentence; and, if that weren't enough, you go on to repeat the contradiction, ad nauseam.

I reply: And your point is... What... ?? Is it... God makes evil, and sin and corruption???!

I answer: NO Satan does all that.. he divides and conquers!
GOD is LOVE!!!!!