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"Don't Vote Your Religion Into Government!"

TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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2/18/2014 2:39:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This is the message that many people in our secular society are conveying. When it comes to social issues, such as abortion or gay marriage, they are told to not bring their religious ideologies.

I would like to discuss in this thread, whether or not that is a realistic, legal and moral expectation.

Should voters have to qualify the foundation for their political ideologies, to ensure they concur with the status quo? Or does democracy necessitate that we embrace a government that is run by the people, to actually represent the beliefs and ideologies of the people, should they gain enough votes to do so?

So the question up for debate in this thread is this:
Is it right to tell someone not to vote according to their religious ideologies?
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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2/18/2014 3:31:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 3:05:12 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 2/18/2014 2:46:46 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Government is a religion.

Care to explain?

Not really, but you can read a few pages on it here The Religion of "Government" [page 28-33]: http://www.scribd.com...
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Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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2/18/2014 3:44:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 2:39:01 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
This is the message that many people in our secular society are conveying. When it comes to social issues, such as abortion or gay marriage, they are told to not bring their religious ideologies.

I would like to discuss in this thread, whether or not that is a realistic, legal and moral expectation.

Should voters have to qualify the foundation for their political ideologies, to ensure they concur with the status quo? Or does democracy necessitate that we embrace a government that is run by the people, to actually represent the beliefs and ideologies of the people, should they gain enough votes to do so?

So the question up for debate in this thread is this:
Is it right to tell someone not to vote according to their religious ideologies?

No. People have every right to vote for whoever they want, and they can make that vote by whatever logic they want. It is not the right of anyone to request people ignore their beliefs when voting... if anything, it is insanity to request so.
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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2/18/2014 3:50:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 3:44:07 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 2/18/2014 2:39:01 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
This is the message that many people in our secular society are conveying. When it comes to social issues, such as abortion or gay marriage, they are told to not bring their religious ideologies.

I would like to discuss in this thread, whether or not that is a realistic, legal and moral expectation.

Should voters have to qualify the foundation for their political ideologies, to ensure they concur with the status quo? Or does democracy necessitate that we embrace a government that is run by the people, to actually represent the beliefs and ideologies of the people, should they gain enough votes to do so?

So the question up for debate in this thread is this:
Is it right to tell someone not to vote according to their religious ideologies?

No. People have every right to vote for whoever they want, and they can make that vote by whatever logic they want. It is not the right of anyone to request people ignore their beliefs when voting... if anything, it is insanity to request so.

Such ideas have been argued for here.

http://www.debate.org...
rockwater
Posts: 273
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2/18/2014 3:55:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I have not heard people saying that people should not vote based on their religious beliefs. I have heard people say that voters should not support policies that force other people to follow the teachings of their religion (ie, impose their religion upon others) unless there is a valid secular reason to do so (banning murder and theft, for instance).
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,057
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2/18/2014 4:01:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 2:39:01 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
This is the message that many people in our secular society are conveying. When it comes to social issues, such as abortion or gay marriage, they are told to not bring their religious ideologies.

I would like to discuss in this thread, whether or not that is a realistic, legal and moral expectation.

Should voters have to qualify the foundation for their political ideologies, to ensure they concur with the status quo? Or does democracy necessitate that we embrace a government that is run by the people, to actually represent the beliefs and ideologies of the people, should they gain enough votes to do so?

So the question up for debate in this thread is this:
Is it right to tell someone not to vote according to their religious ideologies?

I think politicians and voters should follow their moral conscience first and foremost. When we have politicians or voters who will overlook what they believe to be right or wrong, then our society is on the path to ruin; our society is only as good as the people who make it up, and if we don't follow our own moral conscience, we are not acting in a moral manner.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
MysticEgg
Posts: 524
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2/18/2014 4:01:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 2:46:46 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Government is a religion.

That, my friend, is an epic line.
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,057
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2/18/2014 4:03:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
You guys can do what you like, but I personally, will follow my personal conscience first and foremost, whether it be in voting, or whatnot.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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2/18/2014 4:07:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 3:55:46 PM, rockwater wrote:
I have not heard people saying that people should not vote based on their religious beliefs. I have heard people say that voters should not support policies that force other people to follow the teachings of their religion (ie, impose their religion upon others) unless there is a valid secular reason to do so (banning murder and theft, for instance).

They are one and the same, to say the latter is to say the former. That you shouldn't vote for X (that happens to have social consequences for a certain minority group) unless you have strong secular reasons for doing such.

People's religions and their moral views are deeply connected, to disconnect and say these deontological ethical systems are not a valid basis for a voter to influence policy, is against everything that America is.
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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2/18/2014 4:11:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 3:31:30 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 2/18/2014 3:05:12 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 2/18/2014 2:46:46 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Government is a religion.

Care to explain?

Not really, but you can read a few pages on it here The Religion of "Government" [page 28-33]: http://www.scribd.com...

Read it, and it's rubbish. Anything that usually starts out with, "What you read in this book will, in all likelihood, go directly against everything you have been taught by your parents and your teachers, everything you have been told by the churches, the media and the government, and almost everything that you,your family and your friends have ever believed," is likely trying to grab your attention to listen to their nonsense.

If the government were a religion, it would have the WORST followers ever. Few genuinely LOVE government, and most simply think it is a necessary evil. Far better than the alternative which is anarchy, which seems to be what this book is promoting.
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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2/18/2014 4:18:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 4:01:07 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 2/18/2014 2:39:01 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
This is the message that many people in our secular society are conveying. When it comes to social issues, such as abortion or gay marriage, they are told to not bring their religious ideologies.

I would like to discuss in this thread, whether or not that is a realistic, legal and moral expectation.

Should voters have to qualify the foundation for their political ideologies, to ensure they concur with the status quo? Or does democracy necessitate that we embrace a government that is run by the people, to actually represent the beliefs and ideologies of the people, should they gain enough votes to do so?

So the question up for debate in this thread is this:
Is it right to tell someone not to vote according to their religious ideologies?

I think politicians and voters should follow their moral conscience first and foremost. When we have politicians or voters who will overlook what they believe to be right or wrong, then our society is on the path to ruin; our society is only as good as the people who make it up, and if we don't follow our own moral conscience, we are not acting in a moral manner.

Agreed.
rockwater
Posts: 273
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2/18/2014 4:47:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 4:07:21 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 2/18/2014 3:55:46 PM, rockwater wrote:
I have not heard people saying that people should not vote based on their religious beliefs. I have heard people say that voters should not support policies that force other people to follow the teachings of their religion (ie, impose their religion upon others) unless there is a valid secular reason to do so (banning murder and theft, for instance).

They are one and the same, to say the latter is to say the former. That you shouldn't vote for X (that happens to have social consequences for a certain minority group) unless you have strong secular reasons for doing such.

People's religions and their moral views are deeply connected, to disconnect and say these deontological ethical systems are not a valid basis for a voter to influence policy, is against everything that America is.

The reason people make this argument is that people who are accused of imposing their religious beliefs on others do not believe that they are. Most people agree that no one should be compelled to follow the teachings of a religion that they do not believe in. If someone wants to vote for businesses to be closed on Sunday for purely religious reasons, I'm not going to argue that it would be better if they didn't vote, but I can still try to change their mind about how they should vote.
Romanii
Posts: 4,851
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2/18/2014 5:02:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 2:39:01 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
This is the message that many people in our secular society are conveying. When it comes to social issues, such as abortion or gay marriage, they are told to not bring their religious ideologies.

I would like to discuss in this thread, whether or not that is a realistic, legal and moral expectation.

Should voters have to qualify the foundation for their political ideologies, to ensure they concur with the status quo? Or does democracy necessitate that we embrace a government that is run by the people, to actually represent the beliefs and ideologies of the people, should they gain enough votes to do so?

So the question up for debate in this thread is this:
Is it right to tell someone not to vote according to their religious ideologies?

That would be idealistic. Not realistic.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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2/18/2014 6:52:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 4:11:47 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 2/18/2014 3:31:30 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 2/18/2014 3:05:12 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 2/18/2014 2:46:46 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Government is a religion.

Care to explain?

Not really, but you can read a few pages on it here The Religion of "Government" [page 28-33]: http://www.scribd.com...

Read it, and it's rubbish. Anything that usually starts out with, "What you read in this book will, in all likelihood, go directly against everything you have been taught by your parents and your teachers, everything you have been told by the churches, the media and the government, and almost everything that you,your family and your friends have ever believed," is likely trying to grab your attention to listen to their nonsense.

If the government were a religion, it would have the WORST followers ever. Few genuinely LOVE government, and most simply think it is a necessary evil. Far better than the alternative which is anarchy, which seems to be what this book is promoting.

In other words you didn't read the section you were curious about. Cool.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
TrueScotsman
Posts: 515
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2/18/2014 10:32:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/18/2014 6:52:56 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 2/18/2014 4:11:47 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 2/18/2014 3:31:30 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 2/18/2014 3:05:12 PM, TrueScotsman wrote:
At 2/18/2014 2:46:46 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Government is a religion.

Care to explain?

Not really, but you can read a few pages on it here The Religion of "Government" [page 28-33]: http://www.scribd.com...

Read it, and it's rubbish. Anything that usually starts out with, "What you read in this book will, in all likelihood, go directly against everything you have been taught by your parents and your teachers, everything you have been told by the churches, the media and the government, and almost everything that you,your family and your friends have ever believed," is likely trying to grab your attention to listen to their nonsense.

If the government were a religion, it would have the WORST followers ever. Few genuinely LOVE government, and most simply think it is a necessary evil. Far better than the alternative which is anarchy, which seems to be what this book is promoting.

In other words you didn't read the section you were curious about. Cool.

I read the first section, and the section you suggested. I simply disagree with their conclusions, I still believe it is necessary.

I also strongly disagree with him that the government qualifies as a religion, the comparisons simply don't do it for me.