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French Burqa ban

Lukas
Posts: 110
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1/21/2010 2:42:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The French government are due to make a decision on wether wearing of the Burqa should be banned.
http://www.bbc.co.uk...

To me this seems like a cynical move by Sarko. Lest we forget he referred to inner city ghetto kids as 'scum' and called for them 'to be cleaned out with a power hose'. I can't imagine that such comments would be acceptable in Britain and I dread to think what would happen if they were ever uttered. Same goes for the Burqa issue.

Any thoughts?
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/21/2010 3:02:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Laicite: is basically france's tradition of secularism which goes further in that Religious association is traditionally supposed to be a purely private matter. Proselytizing is not supposed to happen, and Politicians don't argue based upon, or really much mention religious belief.

Now I agree that wearing a Burka is silly, but I don't think it's my place to rip it off a woman or tell her that she can't wear it. I think that's going a bit far.

I think in the battle of ideas you ought not resort to force, but to discussion.

This is trying to force Ideas, rather than argue for them.

I'm sure they're arguing that these women don't really have a choice, that it's the men, but I'm sure there are plenty of Burkha wearers who would vehemently disagree.

I think more than anything it's xenophobia rather than actual concern for the women.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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1/21/2010 3:31:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I hate myself for saying this, but concepts of personal liberty are all well and good... no rather they are brilliant, almost sacred.

But...

Though individual muslims range from the wonderful to the less so, the Islamic 'movement' is in net terms a negative influence on civilisation.

It is for this reason, or rather for this opinion that France is considering this ban, and that Switzerland banned further construction of minarets.

It is not because there is anything inherently wrong or harmful with these trappings of Islam. They are being banned purely to make life harder for Muslims (especially devout muslims) so as to encourage their emmigration and also to provoke conflict between the host countries and the remaining Islamic minorities now (which the former will win), instead of the inevitable conflict in 20 to thirty years time which may not go so well.

As much as it pains my liberal heart to say this, something must be done to curb the presence and influence of Islam in western countries so in broad terms I am quite sympathetic to this.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
banker
Posts: 1,370
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1/21/2010 5:43:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I am against controling others believe. I am not going to make any excuses for my suporting france..!

Most of us don't care to learn about the islamic hate cult..! But as we where forced to discover islam we are aware that by outlawing the burka we free to women from bieng victimized by islam.!!
Most muslims quest for freedom and liberty..!
A minority hard liners steal the freedom and the courage to seek their dignity from the majority...! A good liberal would support the liberation of the women issued by france...!
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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1/21/2010 5:44:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 5:43:38 PM, banker wrote:
I am against controling others believe. I am not going to make any excuses for my suporting france..!

Most of us don't care to learn about the islamic hate cult..! But as we where forced to discover islam we are aware that by outlawing the burka we free to women from bieng victimized by islam.!!
Most muslims quest for freedom and liberty..!
A minority hard liners steal the freedom and the courage to seek their dignity from the majority...! A good liberal would support the liberation of the women issued by france...!

Women covering up in Islam isn't about oppressing them. I hope you're aware of that.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/21/2010 5:50:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 5:44:48 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:

Women covering up in Islam isn't about oppressing them. I hope you're aware of that.

I am. I don't think anyone sat down and tried to come up with ways to oppress women and came up with Burkhas.

The practice is a product of that oppression having been internalized into the habits/norms of the culture ;)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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1/21/2010 5:51:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Oh, and insert I know you probably think of me as an Islamophobe but I assure you I'm not, I just don't like culture generally, and think of religion as baseless.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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1/22/2010 3:00:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 2:42:04 PM, Lukas wrote:
The French government are due to make a decision on wether wearing of the Burqa should be banned.
http://www.bbc.co.uk...

To me this seems like a cynical move by Sarko. Lest we forget he referred to inner city ghetto kids as 'scum' and called for them 'to be cleaned out with a power hose'. I can't imagine that such comments would be acceptable in Britain and I dread to think what would happen if they were ever uttered. Same goes for the Burqa issue.

Any thoughts?

Everybody should be allowed to wear AND say WHATEVER they want WHENEVER they want. Period.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/22/2010 3:05:35 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/22/2010 3:00:19 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Everybody should be allowed to wear AND say WHATEVER they want WHENEVER they want. Period.

God is non-existent and there is not a scintilla of proof leading in the direction of his existence; creationism is not science and deserves not even recognition as a hypothesis, and definitely not a theory; the Bible is contradictory and made by men without any inspiration from the divine; Manchester sucks.

Woo, freedom of speech!