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Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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2/25/2014 6:16:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:

I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality.

You seem to think all religion that motivates people to hate and fear gays. Here are a couple of religious groups supporting gay rights etc.:

Metropolitan Community Church:
United Church of Canada:
Quaker's Society of Friends

Ultimately gay people sounding and acting different is a major reason why a large minority of people hate gays.
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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2/25/2014 6:17:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 6:16:41 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:

I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality.

You seem to think all religion that motivates people to hate and fear gays. Here are a couple of religious groups supporting gay rights etc.:

Metropolitan Community Church:
United Church of Canada:
Quaker's Society of Friends

Ultimately gay people sounding and acting different is a major reason why a large minority of people hate gays.

I'm not saying that religion is the sole reason. However, I do think that religion can reinforce someone into their position without stopping to question it.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,057
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2/25/2014 9:26:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.

For me personally, I can sympathize with homosexuals, since I'm bisexual myself. That being said, I don't view homosexual actions as morally permissible, just as I view masturbation, pornography, contraceptives, oral sex to ejaculation, anal sex to ejaculation, etc. as morally wrong. Sex is for marriage, and must consummate in a procreative nature.

Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them, I can understand how difficult and how much of a sacrifice it is to refrain from indulging in them, or any sexually illicit actions for that manner. Of course, I'm not perfect, I've had alot of failings, but I've finally got my sh*t together, and I am alot happier being able to control my passions.

For gay marriage, I'm against it because I think the family is the fundamental unit of society. Also I like the procreation argument that government regulates marriage because it produces society.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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2/25/2014 9:35:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It's all wrong, simply because bronze age barbarians were afraid of what they didn't want to understand, much the same as fundi's in this century.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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2/25/2014 10:34:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 9:26:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.

For me personally, I can sympathize with homosexuals, since I'm bisexual myself. That being said, I don't view homosexual actions as morally permissible, just as I view masturbation, pornography, contraceptives, oral sex to ejaculation, anal sex to ejaculation, etc. as morally wrong. Sex is for marriage, and must consummate in a procreative nature.

Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them, I can understand how difficult and how much of a sacrifice it is to refrain from indulging in them, or any sexually illicit actions for that manner. Of course, I'm not perfect, I've had alot of failings, but I've finally got my sh*t together, and I am alot happier being able to control my passions.

For gay marriage, I'm against it because I think the family is the fundamental unit of society. Also I like the procreation argument that government regulates marriage because it produces society.

Such a typical response, from someone who has another option. It strikes me as funny, your justification for homoerotic desires: "Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them...,". I bet you're so narrow-minded, you didn't even realize how self-serving that statement sounded.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/25/2014 10:36:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
When parents and teachers of this world teach their children that there are scary "boogie men" in the woods, they will keep fearing those boogie men until they walk into the woods and discover how peaceful it really is.

Physicists and saints are people God chose to walk into the woods and find peace instead of boogie men.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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2/25/2014 10:39:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 10:36:42 PM, bornofgod wrote:
When parents and teachers of this world teach their children that there are scary "boogie men" in the woods, they will keep fearing those boogie men until they walk into the woods and discover how peaceful it really is.

Physicists and saints are people God chose to walk into the woods and find peace instead of boogie men.

Very well put. I could not have said it better myself.
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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2/25/2014 11:32:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 9:26:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.

For me personally, I can sympathize with homosexuals, since I'm bisexual myself. That being said, I don't view homosexual actions as morally permissible, just as I view masturbation, pornography, contraceptives, oral sex to ejaculation, anal sex to ejaculation, etc. as morally wrong. Sex is for marriage, and must consummate in a procreative nature.

To be honest, that's stupid. We have sex drives. We have urges. However, a much higher percentage of our children survive to the age where they procreate. So we don't need as many children. We also marry older, long after we become sexually mature. But we still have these urges. So we do other things, to satisfy our urges and not have unwanted children or youth marriage.

Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them, I can understand how difficult and how much of a sacrifice it is to refrain from indulging in them, or any sexually illicit actions for that manner. Of course, I'm not perfect, I've had alot of failings, but I've finally got my sh*t together, and I am alot happier being able to control my passions.

I think this has already been said, but this is easy for you to say. You are bisexual. You can satisfy yourself with a heterosexual attraction. However, there are those of us who cannot. I for one, cannot imagine being with a woman. I simply cannot do it. You have repressed yourself. I am sorry for that. Know that you do not have to. Unless you are in a relationship, you do not have to stick to a heterosexual relationship.

For gay marriage, I'm against it because I think the family is the fundamental unit of society. Also I like the procreation argument that government regulates marriage because it produces society.

Well, we have way too many children not being adopted. We need an influx of parents, not children. Plus invitro fertilization and sperm donors, surrogate mothers.... And why can a homosexual couple not create a stable relationship? The biggest block seems to be........ you.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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2/26/2014 12:09:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 9:26:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.


Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them,
Actually old bean it is exactly the same sin as fulfilling those homosexual attractions according to Jesus H Christ.

If you thunk it you dun it. So saith the lord. hallelujah.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
srehtiw
Posts: 491
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2/26/2014 5:45:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 12:09:53 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:26:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.


Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them,
Actually old bean it is exactly the same sin as fulfilling those homosexual attractions according to Jesus H Christ.

If you thunk it you dun it. So saith the lord. hallelujah.

No. Not at all. Being gay is fine. Acting on it is bad. That is the stance of almost all groups.
srehtiw
Posts: 491
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2/26/2014 5:48:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.

personally I don't really care about homosexuality or gay marriage, but when you do something controversial you have to consider the good it will do and the people it will make happy compared to the bad it will do and the people who it will piss off.
SolarSista
Posts: 28
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2/26/2014 7:15:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.

As a pansexual myself, I see nothing wrong with homosexuality. Unfortunately, I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian household, and it took me years to realize that homosexuals (including myself) can be perfectly normal, productive members of society, and not just some immoral individual that my church made them out to be. Although, my mom still thinks that being gay is a choice...

With regards to gay marriage, I think all people should have equal rights. A person's own religious beliefs should not come anywhere near politics, especially with laws that affect other's lives so deeply. Just because you may have a particular religion, does not mean everyone else has to abide by it. I mean, look at Canada--they seem to be doing just fine. If you want to live in a theocracy, move to Saudi Arabia.

Well, that's my stance on it, anyway. :P
"Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people." - Carl Sagan
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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2/26/2014 7:41:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 12:09:53 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:26:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.


Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them,
Actually old bean it is exactly the same sin as fulfilling those homosexual attractions according to Jesus H Christ.

If you thunk it you dun it. So saith the lord. hallelujah.

HAHAHAHAHA you retard! Jesus said nothing about homosexuality. Paul said crap about it. Do you not read, bulshit?
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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2/26/2014 7:43:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 9:35:39 PM, bulproof wrote:
It's all wrong, simply because bronze age barbarians were afraid of what they didn't want to understand, much the same as fundi's in this century.

LOL at actually thinking any religion was written in the Bronze Ages.
Soulja_n
Posts: 66
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2/26/2014 7:47:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 7:15:19 AM, SolarSista wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.

As a pansexual myself, I see nothing wrong with homosexuality. Unfortunately, I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian household, and it took me years to realize that homosexuals (including myself) can be perfectly normal, productive members of society, and not just some immoral individual that my church made them out to be. Although, my mom still thinks that being gay is a choice...

With regards to gay marriage, I think all people should have equal rights. A person's own religious beliefs should not come anywhere near politics, especially with laws that affect other's lives so deeply. Just because you may have a particular religion, does not mean everyone else has to abide by it. I mean, look at Canada--they seem to be doing just fine. If you want to live in a theocracy, move to Saudi Arabia.

Well, that's my stance on it, anyway. :P

That's how I feel too! I don't even see why people are so against it... It's funny how a person can take their beliefs and decide that someone else has to live a certain way and abide by those rules, I say mind your own, if it's not you being gay, there's no need to worry about someone else...No real freedom...
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,057
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2/26/2014 8:37:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 10:34:05 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:26:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.

For me personally, I can sympathize with homosexuals, since I'm bisexual myself. That being said, I don't view homosexual actions as morally permissible, just as I view masturbation, pornography, contraceptives, oral sex to ejaculation, anal sex to ejaculation, etc. as morally wrong. Sex is for marriage, and must consummate in a procreative nature.

Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them, I can understand how difficult and how much of a sacrifice it is to refrain from indulging in them, or any sexually illicit actions for that manner. Of course, I'm not perfect, I've had alot of failings, but I've finally got my sh*t together, and I am alot happier being able to control my passions.

For gay marriage, I'm against it because I think the family is the fundamental unit of society. Also I like the procreation argument that government regulates marriage because it produces society.

Such a typical response, from someone who has another option. It strikes me as funny, your justification for homoerotic desires: "Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them...,".

Well you're totally ripping what I said out of context. I said I can understand how homosexuals feel to a certain degree, not that it's ok because I have those desires as well. :P

I bet you're so narrow-minded, you didn't even realize how self-serving that statement sounded.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,057
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2/26/2014 8:38:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 12:09:53 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:26:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.


Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them,
Actually old bean it is exactly the same sin as fulfilling those homosexual attractions according to Jesus H Christ.

If you thunk it you dun it. So saith the lord. hallelujah.

There's a difference between willing something (lusting) and having subconscious desires for something.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,057
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2/26/2014 9:07:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 11:32:19 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:26:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.

For me personally, I can sympathize with homosexuals, since I'm bisexual myself. That being said, I don't view homosexual actions as morally permissible, just as I view masturbation, pornography, contraceptives, oral sex to ejaculation, anal sex to ejaculation, etc. as morally wrong. Sex is for marriage, and must consummate in a procreative nature.

To be honest, that's stupid. We have sex drives. We have urges. However, a much higher percentage of our children survive to the age where they procreate. So we don't need as many children. We also marry older, long after we become sexually mature. But we still have these urges. So we do other things, to satisfy our urges and not have unwanted children or youth marriage.


Yes, and sex drive isn't bad per se. But since when do we just give in to our desires and satisfy them? I mean, if you view something as immoral, then sex drive is irrelevant (other than to lessen culpability). So I don't see how sex drive can be used to justify the morality of something. Either it's immoral, or it's not. If it's immoral, sex drive doesn't chance that.

Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them, I can understand how difficult and how much of a sacrifice it is to refrain from indulging in them, or any sexually illicit actions for that manner. Of course, I'm not perfect, I've had alot of failings, but I've finally got my sh*t together, and I am alot happier being able to control my passions.

I think this has already been said, but this is easy for you to say. You are bisexual. You can satisfy yourself with a heterosexual attraction. However, there are those of us who cannot. I for one, cannot imagine being with a woman. I simply cannot do it.

Yes, and in that regards I cannot fully understand. I only understand homosexuals to a certain degree. I'm not saying they have it easy.. In fact they have it very difficult. For a person with homosexual desires, practicing what I'm saying would be extremely difficult.

It's not so much trying to repress your sexual urges, as it is trying to purify them, and see their innocent purpose.

You have repressed yourself. I am sorry for that. Know that you do not have to. Unless you are in a relationship, you do not have to stick to a heterosexual relationship.


Hey, I appreciate your kindness :) I try not to view morality as "this is what you can't do" and more as a liberating type of "free to be pure." Quitting porn was literally the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life, but it was well worth it.

For gay marriage, I'm against it because I think the family is the fundamental unit of society. Also I like the procreation argument that government regulates marriage because it produces society.

Well, we have way too many children not being adopted. We need an influx of parents, not children. Plus invitro fertilization and sperm donors, surrogate mothers.... And why can a homosexual couple not create a stable relationship? The biggest block seems to be........ you.

I'm pretty sure there's many more couples looking to adopt than kids who get adopted. Supposedly for white kids it can be as high as 80 to 1. I'm not sure, I haven't done the research.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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2/26/2014 10:34:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 8:37:07 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 2/25/2014 10:34:05 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:26:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.

For me personally, I can sympathize with homosexuals, since I'm bisexual myself. That being said, I don't view homosexual actions as morally permissible, just as I view masturbation, pornography, contraceptives, oral sex to ejaculation, anal sex to ejaculation, etc. as morally wrong. Sex is for marriage, and must consummate in a procreative nature.

Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them, I can understand how difficult and how much of a sacrifice it is to refrain from indulging in them, or any sexually illicit actions for that manner. Of course, I'm not perfect, I've had alot of failings, but I've finally got my sh*t together, and I am alot happier being able to control my passions.

For gay marriage, I'm against it because I think the family is the fundamental unit of society. Also I like the procreation argument that government regulates marriage because it produces society.

Such a typical response, from someone who has another option. It strikes me as funny, your justification for homoerotic desires: "Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them...,".

Well you're totally ripping what I said out of context. I said I can understand how homosexuals feel to a certain degree, not that it's ok because I have those desires as well. :P

You may be able in some ways to understand a same-gender attraction, but that which you don't understand is how it feels to have that as your only attraction. In asking homosexuals to have an attraction for the opposite sex is paramount to asking an exclusively heterosexual to have homoerotic feelings; most of the straight men I've met say the mere thought repulses them. Now, being merely inconvenienced by a sexual orientation and finding it repulsive are two entirely different things.

Having said that, I would like to say this. Even though I don't see sexual orientation, for the most part, in such drastic terms, namely one's being exclusively one orientation, or the other, I do know from personal experience there are people who are truly repulsed by the idea of having a sexual experience outside of their own orientation. Some of this may be for show; however, I don't believe all of it is, exclusively. I have a roommate who claims being exclusively homosexual; the very thought of being with a woman makes him want to throw up. In fact, he has a difficult time understanding how any man could be heterosexual. Even though he's attracted to heterosexual men, he doesn't understand them; and, even though he gravitates towards lesbian women, he doesn't understand their wanting to be with women, when they can be with men. I know this attitude isn't for show; for, we have known each other, for 14 years; and, he knows I have heteroerotic tendencies (notice: I didn't say homosexual; because, I'm not attracted to women, emotionally;) so, he would have nothing to hide.

I bet you're so narrow-minded, you didn't even realize how self-serving that statement sounded.
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,057
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2/26/2014 10:37:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 10:34:24 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/26/2014 8:37:07 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 2/25/2014 10:34:05 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/25/2014 9:26:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.

For me personally, I can sympathize with homosexuals, since I'm bisexual myself. That being said, I don't view homosexual actions as morally permissible, just as I view masturbation, pornography, contraceptives, oral sex to ejaculation, anal sex to ejaculation, etc. as morally wrong. Sex is for marriage, and must consummate in a procreative nature.

Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them, I can understand how difficult and how much of a sacrifice it is to refrain from indulging in them, or any sexually illicit actions for that manner. Of course, I'm not perfect, I've had alot of failings, but I've finally got my sh*t together, and I am alot happier being able to control my passions.

For gay marriage, I'm against it because I think the family is the fundamental unit of society. Also I like the procreation argument that government regulates marriage because it produces society.

Such a typical response, from someone who has another option. It strikes me as funny, your justification for homoerotic desires: "Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them...,".

Well you're totally ripping what I said out of context. I said I can understand how homosexuals feel to a certain degree, not that it's ok because I have those desires as well. :P

You may be able in some ways to understand a same-gender attraction, but that which you don't understand is how it feels to have that as your only attraction.

Agreed. I never said otherwise.

In asking homosexuals to have an attraction for the opposite sex is paramount to asking an exclusively heterosexual to have homoerotic feelings; most of the straight men I've met say the mere thought repulses them. Now, being merely inconvenienced by a sexual orientation and finding it repulsive are two entirely different things.


Wait, what?

Having said that, I would like to say this. Even though I don't see sexual orientation, for the most part, in such drastic terms, namely one's being exclusively one orientation, or the other, I do know from personal experience there are people who are truly repulsed by the idea of having a sexual experience outside of their own orientation. Some of this may be for show; however, I don't believe all of it is, exclusively. I have a roommate who claims being exclusively homosexual; the very thought of being with a woman makes him want to throw up. In fact, he has a difficult time understanding how any man could be heterosexual. Even though he's attracted to heterosexual men, he doesn't understand them; and, even though he gravitates towards lesbian women, he doesn't understand their wanting to be with women, when they can be with men. I know this attitude isn't for show; for, we have known each other, for 14 years; and, he knows I have heteroerotic tendencies (notice: I didn't say homosexual; because, I'm not attracted to women, emotionally;) so, he would have nothing to hide.

I bet you're so narrow-minded, you didn't even realize how self-serving that statement sounded.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/26/2014 10:52:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 10:39:57 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/25/2014 10:36:42 PM, bornofgod wrote:
When parents and teachers of this world teach their children that there are scary "boogie men" in the woods, they will keep fearing those boogie men until they walk into the woods and discover how peaceful it really is.

Physicists and saints are people God chose to walk into the woods and find peace instead of boogie men.

Very well put. I could not have said it better myself.

Christians were used by our Creator to teach the rest of the world not only religious dogma to cause fear in His people but also to take some of these people with fears and use them to come into the woods to learn there is no boogie man in the woods. These are people like saint Jesus, saint Paul, Isaac Newton, Leonardo da Vince, Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, many atheists, you and now me as His last saint. We are people who God taught to seek the Truth other than what we see in this world that causes fear in the minds of religious people.

You were taken out of the fears that Christians believe in as being real in this world and in their imaginations. They see evils that we don't see.

As a saint, God has given me as friends; thieves, murderers, atheists, homosexuals, Muslims, Jews, wealthy businessmen, homeless people and people who hate religion but know God (agnostics) and people from all races including ugly and beautiful bodies. These friends of mine who I see on a regular basis here in Campbell and share information that we're all in God, causes a lot of fear in the minds of Christian unbelievers in this city. They hate me and all my friends who listen to me.

The boogie man in Campbell today is me and the knowledge I share with my friends.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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2/26/2014 11:02:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 5:48:05 AM, srehtiw wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.

personally I don't really care about homosexuality or gay marriage, but when you do something controversial you have to consider the good it will do and the people it will make happy compared to the bad it will do and the people who it will piss off.

Ending slavery pissed off a lot of people, in the South. Allowing equal rights, for women, pissed off a lot of biblethumping chauvinistic pigs. Integration and the legalisation of interracial marriage pissed off millions of bigots. So, according to your logic, slavery would still exist and women would not be allowed to vote. Is that correct?
s-anthony
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2/26/2014 11:52:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 10:52:25 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/25/2014 10:39:57 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/25/2014 10:36:42 PM, bornofgod wrote:
When parents and teachers of this world teach their children that there are scary "boogie men" in the woods, they will keep fearing those boogie men until they walk into the woods and discover how peaceful it really is.

Physicists and saints are people God chose to walk into the woods and find peace instead of boogie men.

Very well put. I could not have said it better myself.

Christians were used by our Creator to teach the rest of the world not only religious dogma to cause fear in His people but also to take some of these people with fears and use them to come into the woods to learn there is no boogie man in the woods. These are people like saint Jesus, saint Paul, Isaac Newton, Leonardo da Vince, Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, many atheists, you and now me as His last saint. We are people who God taught to seek the Truth other than what we see in this world that causes fear in the minds of religious people.

The bogeyman does indeed exist. However, the bogeyman and the saint, or hero, are one and the same. Just as darkness gives definition to light, the suppressed elements of the human psyche give birth to one's identity; It's not alone the things we like that make us who we are but also those things we don't like. Remember a pathway is created by all the directions in which a traveler chooses not to go.


You were taken out of the fears that Christians believe in as being real in this world and in their imaginations. They see evils that we don't see.

The fears they see are just as real as the Christians are themselves. However, where they see evil, we see good.

As a saint, God has given me as friends; thieves, murderers, atheists, homosexuals, Muslims, Jews, wealthy businessmen, homeless people and people who hate religion but know God (agnostics) and people from all races including ugly and beautiful bodies. These friends of mine who I see on a regular basis here in Campbell and share information that we're all in God, causes a lot of fear in the minds of Christian unbelievers in this city. They hate me and all my friends who listen to me.

In their minds, you have befriended the Devil; and, the Devil and you have been made one.


The boogie man in Campbell today is me and the knowledge I share with my friends.

Never truer words were spoken. Lift your head up high, and be proud of who you are.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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2/26/2014 1:26:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.

As everyone on here, apart from Composer who appears to be too thick to understand it, I oppose homosexual activity, including same sex marriage, with the same strength of feeling that I oppose all forms of fornication on the Grounds that scripture condemns it.

I know exactly what Composer will quote but sine I was not discussing homosexuality at the time it is of no relevance, though maybe I should not have mentioned it in the same post as mentioning that before I started pricing Christianity I had a female Bi-sexual mistress. That was probably tactless of me.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God"s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God"s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.

Which scripture also shows that some did (and in fact still do) give up such practices and repent in gratitude for what God's son, as the human Christ, did for us all.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/26/2014 2:09:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 11:52:44 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/26/2014 10:52:25 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 2/25/2014 10:39:57 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 2/25/2014 10:36:42 PM, bornofgod wrote:
When parents and teachers of this world teach their children that there are scary "boogie men" in the woods, they will keep fearing those boogie men until they walk into the woods and discover how peaceful it really is.

Physicists and saints are people God chose to walk into the woods and find peace instead of boogie men.

Very well put. I could not have said it better myself.

Christians were used by our Creator to teach the rest of the world not only religious dogma to cause fear in His people but also to take some of these people with fears and use them to come into the woods to learn there is no boogie man in the woods. These are people like saint Jesus, saint Paul, Isaac Newton, Leonardo da Vince, Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, many atheists, you and now me as His last saint. We are people who God taught to seek the Truth other than what we see in this world that causes fear in the minds of religious people.

The bogeyman does indeed exist. However, the bogeyman and the saint, or hero, are one and the same. Just as darkness gives definition to light, the suppressed elements of the human psyche give birth to one's identity; It's not alone the things we like that make us who we are but also those things we don't like. Remember a pathway is created by all the directions in which a traveler chooses not to go.


You were taken out of the fears that Christians believe in as being real in this world and in their imaginations. They see evils that we don't see.

The fears they see are just as real as the Christians are themselves. However, where they see evil, we see good.

As a saint, God has given me as friends; thieves, murderers, atheists, homosexuals, Muslims, Jews, wealthy businessmen, homeless people and people who hate religion but know God (agnostics) and people from all races including ugly and beautiful bodies. These friends of mine who I see on a regular basis here in Campbell and share information that we're all in God, causes a lot of fear in the minds of Christian unbelievers in this city. They hate me and all my friends who listen to me.

In their minds, you have befriended the Devil; and, the Devil and you have been made one.


The boogie man in Campbell today is me and the knowledge I share with my friends.

Never truer words were spoken. Lift your head up high, and be proud of who you are.

Knowing I'll be killed for this information I'm sharing comes with a lot of humiliation.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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2/26/2014 2:11:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 1:26:57 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.

As everyone on here, apart from Composer who appears to be too thick to understand it, I oppose homosexual activity, including same sex marriage, with the same strength of feeling that I oppose all forms of fornication on the Grounds that scripture condemns it.

I know exactly what Composer will quote but sine I was not discussing homosexuality at the time it is of no relevance, though maybe I should not have mentioned it in the same post as mentioning that before I started pricing Christianity I had a female Bi-sexual mistress. That was probably tactless of me.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God"s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God"s Kingdom. 11 And yet that is what some of you were. But you have been washed clean; you have been sanctified; you have been declared righteous in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God.

Which scripture also shows that some did (and in fact still do) give up such practices and repent in gratitude for what God's son, as the human Christ, did for us all.

You teach fears in this world instead of information that can free man from his fears.
MysticEgg
Posts: 524
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2/26/2014 2:32:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago

For me personally, I can sympathize with homosexuals, since I'm bisexual myself. That being said, I don't view homosexual actions as morally permissible, just as I view masturbation, pornography, contraceptives, oral sex to ejaculation, anal sex to ejaculation, etc. as morally wrong. Sex is for marriage, and must consummate in a procreative nature.

Well, if those are your views, I respect your right to have them. I'm afraid I cannot claim to respect them, as I see no justification for them, besides the religious, of course. Since I don't see religious justification as anything significant, because it's so subjective, I can't do so. Still, I'm glad you're being honest and not screaming Leviticus.


Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them, I can understand how difficult and how much of a sacrifice it is to refrain from indulging in them, or any sexually illicit actions for that manner. Of course, I'm not perfect, I've had alot of failings, but I've finally got my sh*t together, and I am alot happier being able to control my passions.

I see what you're saying, but that was badly phrased, my friend. I don't see why you refrain from them 100%. If you are comfortable with them, then you're just in denial and using scripture as a shield, no?

"If this your shield, Lord Stark? A piece of paper?" _ Cersei Lannister.
*Tears paper in two*


For gay marriage, I'm against it because I think the family is the fundamental unit of society. Also I like the procreation argument that government regulates marriage because it produces society.

This bugs me.

1) You're asserting that a homosexual couple with children cannot be a family.
2) You're asserting that blocking the anguished cry for marriage will prevent children from being born. Maybe 100 years ago, but that won't work now.
zmikecuber
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2/26/2014 3:42:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/26/2014 2:32:52 PM, MysticEgg wrote:

For me personally, I can sympathize with homosexuals, since I'm bisexual myself. That being said, I don't view homosexual actions as morally permissible, just as I view masturbation, pornography, contraceptives, oral sex to ejaculation, anal sex to ejaculation, etc. as morally wrong. Sex is for marriage, and must consummate in a procreative nature.

Well, if those are your views, I respect your right to have them. I'm afraid I cannot claim to respect them, as I see no justification for them, besides the religious, of course. Since I don't see religious justification as anything significant, because it's so subjective, I can't do so. Still, I'm glad you're being honest and not screaming Leviticus.


I don't know enough about natural law application. I understand the theory behind it, but the application of it is difficult. Some things like: "Pursue truth and avoid error" seem obvious. Using our minds to pursue error seems to be an obvious abuse of our rational faculties. It's a bit blurry in my mind though how this applies to sexual morality.


Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them, I can understand how difficult and how much of a sacrifice it is to refrain from indulging in them, or any sexually illicit actions for that manner. Of course, I'm not perfect, I've had alot of failings, but I've finally got my sh*t together, and I am alot happier being able to control my passions.

I see what you're saying, but that was badly phrased, my friend. I don't see why you refrain from them 100%. If you are comfortable with them, then you're just in denial and using scripture as a shield, no?


I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean here... :P

"If this your shield, Lord Stark? A piece of paper?" _ Cersei Lannister.
*Tears paper in two*


For gay marriage, I'm against it because I think the family is the fundamental unit of society. Also I like the procreation argument that government regulates marriage because it produces society.

This bugs me.

1) You're asserting that a homosexual couple with children cannot be a family.

Yes. Marriage is nothing else other than the official declaration of a man and woman's sexual relations in my opinion.

2) You're asserting that blocking the anguished cry for marriage will prevent children from being born. Maybe 100 years ago, but that won't work now.

I don't know that I said that...
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
SeventhProfessor
Posts: 5,078
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2/26/2014 3:52:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/25/2014 9:26:16 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 2/25/2014 6:09:59 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
I am genuinely curious, and I have failed in having intelligent conversations on this issue. I would simply like people to state their stance on homosexuality and gay marriage (please mention both), and why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a socially liberal Northeastern family, so I was taught to love everyone for who they are at a young age. I was not instilled with extreme fear and hatred from religion, so I never found anything wrong with homosexuality. When I got older, I actually started meeting some gay people, who seemed like perfectly normal a$$holes, just like everyone else.

For me personally, I can sympathize with homosexuals, since I'm bisexual myself. That being said, I don't view homosexual actions as morally permissible, just as I view masturbation, pornography, contraceptives, oral sex to ejaculation, anal sex to ejaculation, etc. as morally wrong. Sex is for marriage, and must consummate in a procreative nature.

Of course, that doesn't mean having homosexual attractions is inherently immoral. Since I myself have them, I can understand how difficult and how much of a sacrifice it is to refrain from indulging in them, or any sexually illicit actions for that manner. Of course, I'm not perfect, I've had alot of failings, but I've finally got my sh*t together, and I am alot happier being able to control my passions.

For gay marriage, I'm against it because I think the family is the fundamental unit of society. Also I like the procreation argument that government regulates marriage because it produces society.

But if all married couples procreate, who will adopt children? Only those that have already had biological children?
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