Total Posts:135|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Christian Challenge.

bulproof
Posts: 25,197
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 7:02:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I have a wee challenge for our christians.

Provide a passage from the bible that demonstrates god's love.

Not talks about.

Not claims it.

No alludes to it.

Actually demonstrates his LOVE.

And NO, him having his son butchered as a bloody human sacrifice to himself is NOT love.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Sane
Posts: 49
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 7:22:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Excellent challenge. I went through the entire Skeptic's Annotated Bible "Good Stuff" page and couldn't find anything that actually demonstrated love.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 7:26:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 7:22:25 AM, Sane wrote:
Excellent challenge. I went through the entire Skeptic's Annotated Bible "Good Stuff" page and couldn't find anything that actually demonstrated love.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...
Thanks and I'm not in the least surprised. But I do love to see our holy brothers and sisters squirm. It must be the satan in me. LOL
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Sane
Posts: 49
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 7:31:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 7:26:25 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/27/2014 7:22:25 AM, Sane wrote:
Excellent challenge. I went through the entire Skeptic's Annotated Bible "Good Stuff" page and couldn't find anything that actually demonstrated love.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...
Thanks and I'm not in the least surprised. But I do love to see our holy brothers and sisters squirm. It must be the satan in me. LOL

It's a good thing that we have the internet to indulge us. I don't know any Christians in real life who would actually debate.
Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 7:32:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 7:02:16 AM, bulproof wrote:
I have a wee challenge for our christians.

Provide a passage from the bible that demonstrates god's love.

Not talks about.

Not claims it.

No alludes to it.

Actually demonstrates his LOVE.

And NO, him having his son butchered as a bloody human sacrifice to himself is NOT love.

I think you should at least give some ground on what such a demonstration would look like. Because I can ask the same question of anyone, show me a demonstration of your love for your family member/wife etc.

Maybe your notion of 'sacrifice' is a right way to go, in which case can the Christian god ever sacrifice anything given that he's defined as omnipotent? That's the issue I take with his 'sacrificing' of his son..... and that's before you make the connection that he sacrificed his son to same humanity from.... himself.... to himself.
Resolved: the Zombie Apocalypse Will Happen
http://www.debate.org...

The most basic living cell was Intelligently Designed:
http://www.debate.org...

God most likely exists:
http://www.debate.org...
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,371
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 7:40:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 7:22:25 AM, Sane wrote:
Excellent challenge. I went through the entire Skeptic's Annotated Bible "Good Stuff" page and couldn't find anything that actually demonstrated love.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...
Referencing the Skeptic's Annotated Bible is like looking to Hollywood for stereotype-free examples of Middle/South/Far Eastern role models.
Sane
Posts: 49
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 7:43:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 7:40:44 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 2/27/2014 7:22:25 AM, Sane wrote:
Excellent challenge. I went through the entire Skeptic's Annotated Bible "Good Stuff" page and couldn't find anything that actually demonstrated love.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...
Referencing the Skeptic's Annotated Bible is like looking to Hollywood for stereotype-free examples of Middle/South/Far Eastern role models.

Oh, don't be so droll. It has the actual verses there, so you're free to make your own determinations.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 7:44:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 7:32:10 AM, Sswdwm wrote:
At 2/27/2014 7:02:16 AM, bulproof wrote:
I have a wee challenge for our christians.

Provide a passage from the bible that demonstrates god's love.

Not talks about.

Not claims it.

No alludes to it.

Actually demonstrates his LOVE.

And NO, him having his son butchered as a bloody human sacrifice to himself is NOT love.

I think you should at least give some ground on what such a demonstration would look like. Because I can ask the same question of anyone, show me a demonstration of your love for your family member/wife etc.

Maybe your notion of 'sacrifice' is a right way to go, in which case can the Christian god ever sacrifice anything given that he's defined as omnipotent? That's the issue I take with his 'sacrificing' of his son..... and that's before you make the connection that he sacrificed his son to same humanity from.... himself.... to himself.
I don't see why.
Why don't you start a thread asking atheists to produce a passage showing god's evil?
Reckon you'd have trouble getting replies? No neither do I.

BTW if my life was written of as extensively as god's supposedly is you would read innumerable demonstrations of my love.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,371
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 7:45:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 7:26:25 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/27/2014 7:22:25 AM, Sane wrote:
Excellent challenge. I went through the entire Skeptic's Annotated Bible "Good Stuff" page and couldn't find anything that actually demonstrated love.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...
Thanks and I'm not in the least surprised. But I do love to see our holy brothers and sisters squirm. It must be the satan in me. LOL
I doubt seriously that anyone is squirming. What you're presenting is a loaded question because everyone knows that you'll just deny that any examples exhibit love. Like God's provisions on the sojourn from Egypt to the promised land (manna, cloud by day, fire by night, etc.). Just claim it's not an example of love.

You could say your neighbor exhibits love by driving his children to school to make sure they get there safely. I could claim your neighbor is just trying to show off his Mazerati.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,371
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 7:50:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 7:43:17 AM, Sane wrote:
At 2/27/2014 7:40:44 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 2/27/2014 7:22:25 AM, Sane wrote:
Excellent challenge. I went through the entire Skeptic's Annotated Bible "Good Stuff" page and couldn't find anything that actually demonstrated love.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...
Referencing the Skeptic's Annotated Bible is like looking to Hollywood for stereotype-free examples of Middle/South/Far Eastern role models.

Oh, don't be so droll. It has the actual verses there, so you're free to make your own determinations.
LOL! Yeah right. Really? Nothing added? No additional notes to sort of help people along with the promoter's view?

The Skeptic's Annotated Bible as a study guide is the Mad Magazine version of Biblical scripture.
Sane
Posts: 49
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 7:51:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 7:45:09 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 2/27/2014 7:26:25 AM, bulproof wrote:
Thanks and I'm not in the least surprised. But I do love to see our holy brothers and sisters squirm. It must be the satan in me. LOL
I doubt seriously that anyone is squirming. What you're presenting is a loaded question because everyone knows that you'll just deny that any examples exhibit love. Like God's provisions on the sojourn from Egypt to the promised land (manna, cloud by day, fire by night, etc.). Just claim it's not an example of love.

You could say your neighbor exhibits love by driving his children to school to make sure they get there safely. I could claim your neighbor is just trying to show off his Mazerati.

Complaining that he'll deny any examples before you even provide any is a little pathetic.
Sane
Posts: 49
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 7:52:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 7:50:29 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 2/27/2014 7:43:17 AM, Sane wrote:

Oh, don't be so droll. It has the actual verses there, so you're free to make your own determinations.
LOL! Yeah right. Really? Nothing added? No additional notes to sort of help people along with the promoter's view?

The Skeptic's Annotated Bible as a study guide is the Mad Magazine version of Biblical scripture.

There's a very clear division between the verses and the annotations. The verses are to the left, the annotations are to the right. If you're not capable of distinguishing, it's nobody else's problem.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 7:59:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 7:45:09 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 2/27/2014 7:26:25 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 2/27/2014 7:22:25 AM, Sane wrote:
Excellent challenge. I went through the entire Skeptic's Annotated Bible "Good Stuff" page and couldn't find anything that actually demonstrated love.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com...
Thanks and I'm not in the least surprised. But I do love to see our holy brothers and sisters squirm. It must be the satan in me. LOL
I doubt seriously that anyone is squirming. What you're presenting is a loaded question because everyone knows that you'll just deny that any examples exhibit love. Like God's provisions on the sojourn from Egypt to the promised land (manna, cloud by day, fire by night, etc.). Just claim it's not an example of love.

You could say your neighbor exhibits love by driving his children to school to make sure they get there safely. I could claim your neighbor is just trying to show off his Mazerati.

Well of course the Egypt thing didn't happen but even if it did at the speed with which they left egypt it would have taken them no more than a month or two to cross the desert. So god was guiding them in circles for 40yrs. The land of milk and honey was just over that dune that he steered them away from.

I find that christians have a very warped sense of what love really is. Perhaps that's why so many of them hate.

Sorry no love in that fable.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,371
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 8:31:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 7:51:42 AM, Sane wrote:
At 2/27/2014 7:45:09 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 2/27/2014 7:26:25 AM, bulproof wrote:
Thanks and I'm not in the least surprised. But I do love to see our holy brothers and sisters squirm. It must be the satan in me. LOL
I doubt seriously that anyone is squirming. What you're presenting is a loaded question because everyone knows that you'll just deny that any examples exhibit love. Like God's provisions on the sojourn from Egypt to the promised land (manna, cloud by day, fire by night, etc.). Just claim it's not an example of love.

You could say your neighbor exhibits love by driving his children to school to make sure they get there safely. I could claim your neighbor is just trying to show off his Mazerati.

Complaining that he'll deny any examples before you even provide any is a little pathetic.
Thus, the reason why I did give an example.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,371
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 8:37:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 7:52:32 AM, Sane wrote:
At 2/27/2014 7:50:29 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 2/27/2014 7:43:17 AM, Sane wrote:

Oh, don't be so droll. It has the actual verses there, so you're free to make your own determinations.
LOL! Yeah right. Really? Nothing added? No additional notes to sort of help people along with the promoter's view?

The Skeptic's Annotated Bible as a study guide is the Mad Magazine version of Biblical scripture.

There's a very clear division between the verses and the annotations. The verses are to the left, the annotations are to the right. If you're not capable of distinguishing, it's nobody else's problem.
There is a clear distinction just as there is a clear distinction between the audio communication in a foreign movie, and the subtitles. The problem is that if the importers (or exporters) don't get someone who understands the language to do the translating for the subtitles, we can get a distorted understanding of what's going on in the movie.

So yes, the SAB in a sense equals lost in translation.
Sane
Posts: 49
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 8:55:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 8:37:07 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 2/27/2014 7:52:32 AM, Sane wrote:
There's a very clear division between the verses and the annotations. The verses are to the left, the annotations are to the right. If you're not capable of distinguishing, it's nobody else's problem.
There is a clear distinction just as there is a clear distinction between the audio communication in a foreign movie, and the subtitles. The problem is that if the importers (or exporters) don't get someone who understands the language to do the translating for the subtitles, we can get a distorted understanding of what's going on in the movie.

So yes, the SAB in a sense equals lost in translation.

Nope! You see, nobody told you that you have to read the subtitles. You are more than welcome to ignore them and only listen to the audio. Hell, I'm pretty sure you can turn the subtitles off!

Unless of course you're talking about a case in which the viewer doesn't understand the foreign language. But that would be an absolutely absurd comparison, since the verses and annotations of the SAB are in the same language.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 9:11:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, so that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

-John 3:16

Truly this passage is the ultimate demonstration and proof of God's love.

Ask me to clarify and I will. You tell us not to use Jesus dying for us as an example but that truly is God's greatest love for humanity.
Nolite Timere
Sane
Posts: 49
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 9:17:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 9:11:07 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, so that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

-John 3:16

Truly this passage is the ultimate demonstration and proof of God's love.

Ask me to clarify and I will. You tell us not to use Jesus dying for us as an example but that truly is God's greatest love for humanity.

But he didn't give his only son. Actually, he took him back. No? According to most Christians he is "seated at the right hand of the father".

Some sacrifice.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 9:22:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 9:17:01 AM, Sane wrote:
At 2/27/2014 9:11:07 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, so that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

-John 3:16

Truly this passage is the ultimate demonstration and proof of God's love.

Ask me to clarify and I will. You tell us not to use Jesus dying for us as an example but that truly is God's greatest love for humanity.

But he didn't give his only son. Actually, he took him back. No? According to most Christians he is "seated at the right hand of the father".

Some sacrifice.

He was physically and in a sense spiritually sacrificed. He took on the burden and suffering of our sins in Hell before defeating sin and resurrecting, then ascending into Heaven. So yes, it was a sacrifice. Not only did he bear the physical suffering, but also the spiritual suffering which was far, far worse.
Nolite Timere
Sane
Posts: 49
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 9:31:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 9:22:47 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 2/27/2014 9:17:01 AM, Sane wrote:
But he didn't give his only son. Actually, he took him back. No? According to most Christians he is "seated at the right hand of the father".

Some sacrifice.

He was physically and in a sense spiritually sacrificed. He took on the burden and suffering of our sins in Hell before defeating sin and resurrecting, then ascending into Heaven. So yes, it was a sacrifice. Not only did he bear the physical suffering, but also the spiritual suffering which was far, far worse.

Well... No. If god is the creator of everything, and capable of anything, then god could have just as easily achieved the same result without bearing any suffering whatsoever.

So, if the story is true, it just makes god a masochist. Kinky.

Anyways, not sure exactly how you Christians buy into the idea that he "defeated sin". People do shitty things all the time. So if the only thing that changed was that people can get into heaven now regardless of sin, that's really more of just a "policy change" per se. Some victory.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 9:39:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 9:31:23 AM, Sane wrote:
At 2/27/2014 9:22:47 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 2/27/2014 9:17:01 AM, Sane wrote:
But he didn't give his only son. Actually, he took him back. No? According to most Christians he is "seated at the right hand of the father".

Some sacrifice.

He was physically and in a sense spiritually sacrificed. He took on the burden and suffering of our sins in Hell before defeating sin and resurrecting, then ascending into Heaven. So yes, it was a sacrifice. Not only did he bear the physical suffering, but also the spiritual suffering which was far, far worse.

Well... No. If god is the creator of everything, and capable of anything, then god could have just as easily achieved the same result without bearing any suffering whatsoever.

Free will not only rendered the sacrifice nessecary, but the sacrifice also gave humans an example of the ultimate live of God on which humans could abide to. Original sin could only be counter acted by the sacrifice of God.

So, if the story is true, it just makes god a masochist. Kinky.

Anyways, not sure exactly how you Christians buy into the idea that he "defeated sin". People do shitty things all the time. So if the only thing that changed was that people can get into heaven now regardless of sin, that's really more of just a "policy change" per se. Some victory.

He opened the gates of Heaven to sinners. He allowed original sin to be defeated through Baptism. This could only have been done through God's self sacrifice. God's omnipotence still holds true because he sucessfully defeated sin. Omnipotence entails that you cannot do what is logical impossible. In the same, it was impossible to defeat sin without God's sacrifice. Just as you can't make a square circle.

Also, stop with the sarcasm. You make yourself look like an arrogant d*ck. let's just have a discussion.
Nolite Timere
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,371
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 9:41:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 8:55:11 AM, Sane wrote:
At 2/27/2014 8:37:07 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 2/27/2014 7:52:32 AM, Sane wrote:
There's a very clear division between the verses and the annotations. The verses are to the left, the annotations are to the right. If you're not capable of distinguishing, it's nobody else's problem.
There is a clear distinction just as there is a clear distinction between the audio communication in a foreign movie, and the subtitles. The problem is that if the importers (or exporters) don't get someone who understands the language to do the translating for the subtitles, we can get a distorted understanding of what's going on in the movie.

So yes, the SAB in a sense equals lost in translation.

Nope! You see, nobody told you that you have to read the subtitles. You are more than welcome to ignore them and only listen to the audio. Hell, I'm pretty sure you can turn the subtitles off!

Unless of course you're talking about a case in which the viewer doesn't understand the foreign language. But that would be an absolutely absurd comparison, since the verses and annotations of the SAB are in the same language.
The annotations are in the same linguistic family, but this doesn't account for lack of historical understanding, lack of contextual understanding, lack of cultural understanding, etc.

When someone gives a modern interpretation of something ancient, it may look impressive to it's contemporaries, but would probably look extremely ridiculous to the ancient originators.

Imagine an apocalyptic event occurs, and 2,000 years from now all electronic information is lost. All that is left are bits and pieces of written literature (books, magazines, newspapers).

Someone digs up an old sports page which headline reads:

"Cowboys Annihilate The Redskins At Texas Stadium", or "RFK Stadium".

These post apocalyptics interpret the headline in relation to other information they had about Gladiator games in Rome, wars between cowboys and Indians, and violence in general in America. They conclude that there were gladiator games in the 20th/21st Century where Cowboys and Indians, Vikings and Pirates, etc. did battle to the death in big stadiums similar to the Roman Coliseum. They even pitted animals against each other (bears against lions, tigers against panthers, etc.).

Some post apocalyptic historians provide evidence of a game developed in the 19th century that became popular involving men kicking and running with a leather or pigskin teardrop shaped ball, suggesting that the headline was merely referring to a game of what was called Football. These historians are labelled as morons because the facts seemingly, from a contemporary view, just don't add up. Who in the world would cram into a huge stadium and ( if evidence of revenue is revealed) pay large sums of money to watch men kick and run around with a pigskin?

These post apocalyptics would be void of understanding that there's a lot more to the historicity of the event. There's the commercial hype. There's the issue of rivalry. There's the issue of the violent aspect of football that does exist which is part of the entertainment. There's the half-time entertainment. There's the merchandise (jerseys, hats, flags, etc.). There's the sexual exploitation of females. There's high profile players with frequent national news exposure, etc.
GodChoosesLife
Posts: 3,461
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 9:49:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 9:17:01 AM, Sane wrote:
At 2/27/2014 9:11:07 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, so that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

-John 3:16

Truly this passage is the ultimate demonstration and proof of God's love.

Ask me to clarify and I will. You tell us not to use Jesus dying for us as an example but that truly is God's greatest love for humanity.

But he didn't give his only son. Actually, he took him back. No? According to most Christians he is "seated at the right hand of the father".

Some sacrifice.

He did give His Son, BUT what most people neglect to see or notice is that Jesus willingly laid down His life for all man-kind. So technically it was His choice. I mean if you've read the gospel of john it even shows how he became heavy hearted just as any man would but still knew it was all for God's glory and loved the world enough to go through it all. I mean ask yourself, if you were in His position would you be so quick to just give up and let everyone be damned for hell without ANY HOPE AT ALL?? Or would you love the world just as He did to the point of His death bearing our sin and God's wrath on Himself?? He rose from the dead in 3 days and thus did ascend back to heaven because His purpose was to fulfill His glory with God by His death, resurrection and ascension.
Better than deserved, as ALWAYS.
"The strongest principle of growth lies in human choices."
"The Lord doesn't promise us a perfect life that is free of problems, but he does promise that He'll get us through anything." ~SweeTea
"Good Times" ~ Max
"If Jesus isn't in heaven, then it's not heaven; instead, it's hell." ~anonymous
"Suffering is unimaginably confusing, but it's a way to be drawn closer to God" ~Me
"Tell me what consumes your heart most, and I'll tell you who your God is." ~Dad
Sane
Posts: 49
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 9:52:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 9:41:51 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 2/27/2014 8:55:11 AM, Sane wrote:

Nope! You see, nobody told you that you have to read the subtitles. You are more than welcome to ignore them and only listen to the audio. Hell, I'm pretty sure you can turn the subtitles off!

Unless of course you're talking about a case in which the viewer doesn't understand the foreign language. But that would be an absolutely absurd comparison, since the verses and annotations of the SAB are in the same language.
The annotations are in the same linguistic family, but this doesn't account for lack of historical understanding, lack of contextual understanding, lack of cultural understanding, etc.

You're assuming a lack of understand of the person reading the SAB that could just as easily be assumed of a person reading a normal bible. Thus your assumption has no bearing on the SAB.

Your assumption is wrong anyways. I'd be willing to bet that most of the people who use the SAB are, like myself, people who have already made an informed decision on the bible's worth, and merely use it as a reference.
Sane
Posts: 49
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 9:55:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 9:49:34 AM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
At 2/27/2014 9:17:01 AM, Sane wrote:
But he didn't give his only son. Actually, he took him back. No? According to most Christians he is "seated at the right hand of the father".

Some sacrifice.

He did give His Son, BUT what most people neglect to see or notice is that Jesus willingly laid down His life for all man-kind. So technically it was His choice. I mean if you've read the gospel of john it even shows how he became heavy hearted just as any man would but still knew it was all for God's glory and loved the world enough to go through it all. I mean ask yourself, if you were in His position would you be so quick to just give up and let everyone be damned for hell without ANY HOPE AT ALL?? Or would you love the world just as He did to the point of His death bearing our sin and God's wrath on Himself?? He rose from the dead in 3 days and thus did ascend back to heaven because His purpose was to fulfill His glory with God by His death, resurrection and ascension.

Either way, it wasn't a sacrifice. Any suffering on the part of Jesus was entirely within god's power to mitigate. The end result was that he returned to heaven which is purported to be a pleasant place to be.
GodChoosesLife
Posts: 3,461
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 9:59:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 9:55:35 AM, Sane wrote:
At 2/27/2014 9:49:34 AM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
At 2/27/2014 9:17:01 AM, Sane wrote:
But he didn't give his only son. Actually, he took him back. No? According to most Christians he is "seated at the right hand of the father".

Some sacrifice.

He did give His Son, BUT what most people neglect to see or notice is that Jesus willingly laid down His life for all man-kind. So technically it was His choice. I mean if you've read the gospel of john it even shows how he became heavy hearted just as any man would but still knew it was all for God's glory and loved the world enough to go through it all. I mean ask yourself, if you were in His position would you be so quick to just give up and let everyone be damned for hell without ANY HOPE AT ALL?? Or would you love the world just as He did to the point of His death bearing our sin and God's wrath on Himself?? He rose from the dead in 3 days and thus did ascend back to heaven because His purpose was to fulfill His glory with God by His death, resurrection and ascension.

Either way, it wasn't a sacrifice. Any suffering on the part of Jesus was entirely within god's power to mitigate. The end result was that he returned to heaven which is purported to be a pleasant place to be.

You missed the point.
Better than deserved, as ALWAYS.
"The strongest principle of growth lies in human choices."
"The Lord doesn't promise us a perfect life that is free of problems, but he does promise that He'll get us through anything." ~SweeTea
"Good Times" ~ Max
"If Jesus isn't in heaven, then it's not heaven; instead, it's hell." ~anonymous
"Suffering is unimaginably confusing, but it's a way to be drawn closer to God" ~Me
"Tell me what consumes your heart most, and I'll tell you who your God is." ~Dad
Sane
Posts: 49
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 10:02:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 9:59:03 AM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
At 2/27/2014 9:55:35 AM, Sane wrote:

Either way, it wasn't a sacrifice. Any suffering on the part of Jesus was entirely within god's power to mitigate. The end result was that he returned to heaven which is purported to be a pleasant place to be.

You missed the point.

A pointless post. I feel that you missed the point.

A sacrifice implies some sort of necessary burden or something given up. You haven't demonstrated either.
GodChoosesLife
Posts: 3,461
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 10:06:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 10:02:34 AM, Sane wrote:
At 2/27/2014 9:59:03 AM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
At 2/27/2014 9:55:35 AM, Sane wrote:

Either way, it wasn't a sacrifice. Any suffering on the part of Jesus was entirely within god's power to mitigate. The end result was that he returned to heaven which is purported to be a pleasant place to be.

You missed the point.

A pointless post. I feel that you missed the point.

A sacrifice implies some sort of necessary burden or something given up. You haven't demonstrated either.

Maybe go and reread my post because I did. I'll put it to you like this, if Jesus never would've came to the earth to die and take our sin and God's wrath upon Himself we'd all go straight to hell. But since Jesus was a sacrifice it gives us hope Of eternity to go to heaven; to be given life. His sacrifice is a true indicator of His Love whether you deny it or not.
Better than deserved, as ALWAYS.
"The strongest principle of growth lies in human choices."
"The Lord doesn't promise us a perfect life that is free of problems, but he does promise that He'll get us through anything." ~SweeTea
"Good Times" ~ Max
"If Jesus isn't in heaven, then it's not heaven; instead, it's hell." ~anonymous
"Suffering is unimaginably confusing, but it's a way to be drawn closer to God" ~Me
"Tell me what consumes your heart most, and I'll tell you who your God is." ~Dad
TheSquirrel
Posts: 83
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
2/27/2014 10:10:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/27/2014 9:59:03 AM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
At 2/27/2014 9:55:35 AM, Sane wrote:
At 2/27/2014 9:49:34 AM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
At 2/27/2014 9:17:01 AM, Sane wrote:
But he didn't give his only son. Actually, he took him back. No? According to most Christians he is "seated at the right hand of the father".

Some sacrifice.

He did give His Son, BUT what most people neglect to see or notice is that Jesus willingly laid down His life for all man-kind. So technically it was His choice. I mean if you've read the gospel of john it even shows how he became heavy hearted just as any man would but still knew it was all for God's glory and loved the world enough to go through it all. I mean ask yourself, if you were in His position would you be so quick to just give up and let everyone be damned for hell without ANY HOPE AT ALL?? Or would you love the world just as He did to the point of His death bearing our sin and God's wrath on Himself?? He rose from the dead in 3 days and thus did ascend back to heaven because His purpose was to fulfill His glory with God by His death, resurrection and ascension.

Either way, it wasn't a sacrifice. Any suffering on the part of Jesus was entirely within god's power to mitigate. The end result was that he returned to heaven which is purported to be a pleasant place to be.

You missed the point.

I don't think he did.
When a sacrifice is made, something is lost.
What did God lose?