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"Freedom from Religion Foundation" is bigoted

Pitbull15
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3/4/2014 12:42:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Look at this fine story I found:

http://ffrf.org...
http://www.foxnews.com...

Apparently the high and mighty of the FFRF saw fit to take the Bibles from the rooms at the University of Wisconsin lodging. Because there's always a chance that a Bible in a drawer can come to life and KILL YOU!! They call it "religious propaganda on state property." Yes, of course; because Bibles sitting in drawers are evil and should all be burned at once! Look at this interview between Fox News's Sean Hannity and FFRF's Annie Gaylor

"HANNITY: I debated you way back in Alabama, that's right. I'm getting younger every day.

Tell me what -- you go to the hotel, you and your husband or any member of your organization. So they have the Bible maybe at a -- in a drawer next to the bed. Tell me how you're so offended by this, that it is so outrageous, those people who would like it would have the choice to open it, forced to open it, doesn't take up space. Why is it such a big issue for you?

GAYLOR: Why would a university place a religious book in a hotel room?

HANNITY: Because they want to. Because they think their customers want it.

GAYLOR: Unless there was a message of endorsement. We think you should be reading this book or we think you would want to read this book. Imagine the outcry if somebody opened up their bedside table at a public supported institution and found Richard Dawkins "God Delusion" or found a Koran."


Nothing but utter stupidity from Gaylor. If I opened my bedside drawer in a hotel and found "The God Delusion" I wouldn't care. I could just read it or close the drawer. Nobody's endorsing they should read the Bible. It's just there. So who cares?
But wait, there's even more.

"HANNITY: We're talking about the Bible. If they wanted to put a Koran in there, I would have no problem. You're acting like you're so offended. And you're not offended. I don't believe for a second you're offended. I'm sure your organization will raise money on this, you'll send out letters saying you took on Iowa University.

GAYLOR: Well, I am offended because --

GAYLOR: I don't like to pay high prices to stay in a hotel room to find a book in there that says that I should be murdered, that blasphemers should be put to death, that homosexuals are an abomination, that women are subordinate, that it's OK to abuse children.

HANNITY: Don't open the book. They've got channels on the TV that you don't like. You probably don't like to watch me, usually.

GAYLOR: Well, you said that I am not offended, but I am offended by the Bible because I don't think there is another book where between whose pages life is so cheap, that sanctifies genocide."


Hannity said it best... Don't open the book. And here we have Gaylor setting up straw men left and right. The Bible doesn't sanctify child abuse, call homosexuals abominations (It only condemns the act of it.), and on the other things, we follow the teaching of Christi now. Galatians 6:2 and Matthew 22: 37-39 make this clear. And the Old Testament laws were given to the people of Israel, not Christians in general.
And the Bible in no way sanctifies genocide. It mentions it happening, but it doesn't say that we are all commanded to wipe out an entire race.

"HANNITY: You get off on insulting people's deeply held religious views. I know that's part of your thing. How much money does your organization take in a year?

GAYLOR: Well, actually that is none of your business.

HANNITY: That's none of my business? Because you're going to raise money off of this, aren't you?

GAYLOR: No, we haven't raised any money off it --

HANNITY: That little Bible that sits there is not offending you, but you're going to send out letters and raise money.

GAYLOR: We wrote a letter and pointed out that this is an --

HANNITY: You're going to raise money because you're not really offended. I don't believe that for a second.

GAYLOR: We didn't put out a press release saying donate on it. We just put out a press release pointing out that this is a victory for seculars --

HANNITY: And will you get checks in the mail supporting your group?

GAYLOR: Well, we are a membership organization and we do invite people who are free thinkers to join us. We are the largest atheist and agnostic organization in the country.

HANNITY: Are you pro-choice?

GAYLOR: Yes, I am.

HANNITY: All right, so --

GAYLOR: -- and we offer a free service to members of the public who encounter violence of the separation of church and state."

I think it's pretty clear here that this is beginning to lead nowhere. This isn't exactly as relevant but I wanted to include the whole thing.

"HANNITY: If the Bible is tucked into the drawer next to the bed and you choose not to open it, just like you may not want to watch a channel on TV that is on their channel, maybe even religious channels -- you are saying something that to me just makings zero sense and that I don't believe, and that you are so deeply --

GAYLOR: Well, I would think you would be offended if you found "The God Delusion" and atheistic materials in a hotel that was supported by the government, a public university hotel. Don't tell me you wouldn't be."


Why would we be offended? It's just sitting there in a drawer.

"HANNITY: Up until the early 1960s the Lord's Prayer was said in school, Bible reading was done on a regular basis until two Supreme Court decisions. That means from 1776, our founding document, our declaration, through 1787, all the way up until the 1960s, Bible reading was done in school and the Lord's Prayer was said. And guess what? A theocracy never emerged in America. Isn't that interesting.

GAYLOR: Sean, that is not true.

HANNITY: It is true.

GAYLOR: No. In the state of Wisconsin, for example, our Supreme Court out lawed Bible reading in the public schools in 1890. The same was true in other states. It was a fairly recent thing that happened in the 50s that you had so many states deciding that the Lord's Prayer, we owe a great debt --"


I'm all for freedom of expression, but this is ridiculous. If you're going to take Bibles just sitting in drawers out of hotels because you think they're going to jump out and kill you, why not save a step and take them out of our libraries, too? And perhaps our homes? Or just get rid of them entirely? People and organizations like these are putting all atheists in a bad light that they don't deserve; and I don't think most atheists are like Gaylor or the FFRF.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
RoderickSpode
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3/4/2014 1:13:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
They made the same argument they did when they protested those high school cheerleaders in Texas for putting scriptures on signs at a football game where no one was offended. They used the "what if Muslim cheerleaders put koranic scripture on signs" argument to suggest that Christians would be outraged. Basically make presumptions for hypothetical scenarios that haven't even happened in attempted to make a case.

I doubt very seriously that they have too much concern for Muslim rights as opposed to using them as an apparent tool to either equate with Christianity when Islamic terrorism occurs, or to claim Christian intolerance towards Muslims when Christians challenge koranic scripture, or even address Islamic terrorism.
Pitbull15
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3/4/2014 1:17:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 1:13:21 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
They made the same argument they did when they protested those high school cheerleaders in Texas for putting scriptures on signs at a football game where no one was offended. They used the "what if Muslim cheerleaders put koranic scripture on signs" argument to suggest that Christians would be outraged. Basically make presumptions for hypothetical scenarios that haven't even happened in attempted to make a case.

I doubt very seriously that they have too much concern for Muslim rights as opposed to using them as an apparent tool to either equate with Christianity when Islamic terrorism occurs, or to claim Christian intolerance towards Muslims when Christians challenge koranic scripture, or even address Islamic terrorism.

They do this kind of thing because in the end, it's all they really have. But you can't really blame them for their ignorance; I mean these people actually think they're fighting for the greater good! (Whatever that is for them.)
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/4/2014 1:24:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Some people consider religion to be offensive. When a majority think it is then bibles will be removed from hotel rooms. The world is slowly moving toward that outcome but the US is probably the slowest so-called Christian country to do it.

Christianity is on the decline and has been in many countries for many years. The minority of Christian believers is not going to save it. Popular opinion will result in bibles eventually being removed from hotel rooms. It just won't make sense for the maid to have to keep removing them from the waste baskets.
Pitbull15
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3/4/2014 1:57:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 1:24:44 PM, monty1 wrote:
Some people consider religion to be offensive. When a majority think it is then bibles will be removed from hotel rooms. The world is slowly moving toward that outcome but the US is probably the slowest so-called Christian country to do it.

Christianity is on the decline and has been in many countries for many years. The minority of Christian believers is not going to save it. Popular opinion will result in bibles eventually being removed from hotel rooms. It just won't make sense for the maid to have to keep removing them from the waste baskets.

Actually, last I checked, atheists make up a minority of this country, but it's the bigoted ones that hold the power and that's what's causing the problem. Something tells me that popular opinion doesn't have much of an effect with these people.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
monty1
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3/4/2014 2:14:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 1:57:48 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 1:24:44 PM, monty1 wrote:
Some people consider religion to be offensive. When a majority think it is then bibles will be removed from hotel rooms. The world is slowly moving toward that outcome but the US is probably the slowest so-called Christian country to do it.

Christianity is on the decline and has been in many countries for many years. The minority of Christian believers is not going to save it. Popular opinion will result in bibles eventually being removed from hotel rooms. It just won't make sense for the maid to have to keep removing them from the waste baskets.

Actually, last I checked, atheists make up a minority of this country, but it's the bigoted ones that hold the power and that's what's causing the problem. Something tells me that popular opinion doesn't have much of an effect with these people.

It's probably true that the US has more Christians than other first world countries. But when you say that the US has more Christians than atheists you're not being completely truthful. Most who declare themselves Christians are not practicing Christians, even in the US.

Canada too would have more people claiming to be Christians than those claiming to be atheists but it's easily seen that we have few practicing Christians. Crowds at churches on Sunday are small now and many churches are being either torn down or are being changed into building for other purposes than religion.

Christianity is definitely on the decline throughout the world. Probably much moreso than Islam mostly because of a much more advanced society. Modern societies are much more prone to throwing out religion and the superstitions that go along with it.

It appears that religion is strongest in the American deep south and that is in accordance with a more backward society in general in the south.
Installgentoo
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3/4/2014 3:03:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
It IS ridiculous. The Gideons Foundation just wants to provide some literature for people in hotels. Are they doing anything so terrible? They're a private group so they can put "religious propaganda" wherever they want without breaking the first amendment. This is actually an attack on free speech.
Installgentoo
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3/4/2014 3:04:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 2:14:35 PM, monty1 wrote:

It appears that religion is strongest in the American deep south and that is in accordance with a more backward society in general in the south.

*tips fedora*
Iredia
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3/4/2014 3:40:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 2:14:35 PM, monty1 wrote:

Christianity is definitely on the decline throughout the world. Probably much moreso than Islam mostly because of a much more advanced society. Modern societies are much more prone to throwing out religion and the superstitions that go along with it.

There was a time modern societies adopted more religions. It would be more correct to say modern societies in this era are prone to throwing out religions.


It appears that religion is strongest in the American deep south and that is in accordance with a more backward society in general in the south.

In contrast, West Germany was better developed and pro-Christian than East Germany which turned atheistic under the Soviet regime; in fact, it will be safe to say that atheism is rising in Germany because of the reunion.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
Pitbull15
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3/4/2014 3:43:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 2:14:35 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 1:57:48 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 1:24:44 PM, monty1 wrote:
Some people consider religion to be offensive. When a majority think it is then bibles will be removed from hotel rooms. The world is slowly moving toward that outcome but the US is probably the slowest so-called Christian country to do it.

Christianity is on the decline and has been in many countries for many years. The minority of Christian believers is not going to save it. Popular opinion will result in bibles eventually being removed from hotel rooms. It just won't make sense for the maid to have to keep removing them from the waste baskets.

Actually, last I checked, atheists make up a minority of this country, but it's the bigoted ones that hold the power and that's what's causing the problem. Something tells me that popular opinion doesn't have much of an effect with these people.

It's probably true that the US has more Christians than other first world countries. But when you say that the US has more Christians than atheists you're not being completely truthful. Most who declare themselves Christians are not practicing Christians, even in the US.

Canada too would have more people claiming to be Christians than those claiming to be atheists but it's easily seen that we have few practicing Christians. Crowds at churches on Sunday are small now and many churches are being either torn down or are being changed into building for other purposes than religion.

Christianity is definitely on the decline throughout the world. Probably much moreso than Islam mostly because of a much more advanced society. Modern societies are much more prone to throwing out religion and the superstitions that go along with it.

It appears that religion is strongest in the American deep south and that is in accordance with a more backward society in general in the south.

Can you please define backward?
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
Pitbull15
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3/4/2014 3:46:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 3:03:52 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
It IS ridiculous. The Gideons Foundation just wants to provide some literature for people in hotels. Are they doing anything so terrible? They're a private group so they can put "religious propaganda" wherever they want without breaking the first amendment. This is actually an attack on free speech.

And sadly it's working, and just like that, they're guilty of the same bigotry that they accuse Christianity of. But, some people like Governor Perry have stood up to the FFRF. I think that's what Christians need to do is to learn to stand up to these people.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
Pitbull15
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3/4/2014 3:49:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 3:40:59 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/4/2014 2:14:35 PM, monty1 wrote:

Christianity is definitely on the decline throughout the world. Probably much moreso than Islam mostly because of a much more advanced society. Modern societies are much more prone to throwing out religion and the superstitions that go along with it.

There was a time modern societies adopted more religions. It would be more correct to say modern societies in this era are prone to throwing out religions.

Society may be able to get rid of religions, but they probably will never completely extinguish religion in general.


It appears that religion is strongest in the American deep south and that is in accordance with a more backward society in general in the south.

In contrast, West Germany was better developed and pro-Christian than East Germany which turned atheistic under the Soviet regime; in fact, it will be safe to say that atheism is rising in Germany because of the reunion.

Religion does not equal a backwards society. Just because they adopt it, that doesn't automatically mean it's backwards.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
Pitbull15
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3/4/2014 3:53:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Call me immature or whatever, but I'm almost tempted to create an account on the FFRF to troll. I think all I need to do is talk about free speech and open-mindedness and the fact that they're not perfect. That should raise hell. =D :3
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
Iredia
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3/4/2014 3:54:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 3:43:52 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:

Can you please define backward?

I'm guessing it reads religious, republican racist in his book.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
monty1
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3/4/2014 3:56:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 3:43:52 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 2:14:35 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 1:57:48 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 1:24:44 PM, monty1 wrote:
Some people consider religion to be offensive. When a majority think it is then bibles will be removed from hotel rooms. The world is slowly moving toward that outcome but the US is probably the slowest so-called Christian country to do it.

Christianity is on the decline and has been in many countries for many years. The minority of Christian believers is not going to save it. Popular opinion will result in bibles eventually being removed from hotel rooms. It just won't make sense for the maid to have to keep removing them from the waste baskets.

Actually, last I checked, atheists make up a minority of this country, but it's the bigoted ones that hold the power and that's what's causing the problem. Something tells me that popular opinion doesn't have much of an effect with these people.

It's probably true that the US has more Christians than other first world countries. But when you say that the US has more Christians than atheists you're not being completely truthful. Most who declare themselves Christians are not practicing Christians, even in the US.

Canada too would have more people claiming to be Christians than those claiming to be atheists but it's easily seen that we have few practicing Christians. Crowds at churches on Sunday are small now and many churches are being either torn down or are being changed into building for other purposes than religion.

Christianity is definitely on the decline throughout the world. Probably much moreso than Islam mostly because of a much more advanced society. Modern societies are much more prone to throwing out religion and the superstitions that go along with it.

It appears that religion is strongest in the American deep south and that is in accordance with a more backward society in general in the south.

Can you please define backward?

From dictionary.com
back"ward [bak-werd] Show IPA

adverb Also, back"wards.

1.

toward the back or rear.

2.

with the back foremost.

3.

in the reverse of the usual or right way: counting backward from 100.

4.

toward the past: to look backward over one's earlier mistakes.

5.

toward a less advanced state; retrogressively: Since the overthrow of the president the country has moved steadily backward.

------------------------------------
Retrogressively is usually understood to be the opposite of progressively. Something that will be of interest to those who think being progressive is a bad thing! Definitive of the US south as well as Russia I would say.
Pitbull15
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3/4/2014 3:56:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 3:54:59 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 3/4/2014 3:43:52 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:

Can you please define backward?

I'm guessing it reads religious, republican racist in his book.

Sure. Because all religious republicans are some sort of evil mutants and should be exterminated at once.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
Pitbull15
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3/4/2014 3:58:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 3:56:14 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 3:43:52 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 2:14:35 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 1:57:48 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 1:24:44 PM, monty1 wrote:
Some people consider religion to be offensive. When a majority think it is then bibles will be removed from hotel rooms. The world is slowly moving toward that outcome but the US is probably the slowest so-called Christian country to do it.

Christianity is on the decline and has been in many countries for many years. The minority of Christian believers is not going to save it. Popular opinion will result in bibles eventually being removed from hotel rooms. It just won't make sense for the maid to have to keep removing them from the waste baskets.

Actually, last I checked, atheists make up a minority of this country, but it's the bigoted ones that hold the power and that's what's causing the problem. Something tells me that popular opinion doesn't have much of an effect with these people.

It's probably true that the US has more Christians than other first world countries. But when you say that the US has more Christians than atheists you're not being completely truthful. Most who declare themselves Christians are not practicing Christians, even in the US.

Canada too would have more people claiming to be Christians than those claiming to be atheists but it's easily seen that we have few practicing Christians. Crowds at churches on Sunday are small now and many churches are being either torn down or are being changed into building for other purposes than religion.

Christianity is definitely on the decline throughout the world. Probably much moreso than Islam mostly because of a much more advanced society. Modern societies are much more prone to throwing out religion and the superstitions that go along with it.

It appears that religion is strongest in the American deep south and that is in accordance with a more backward society in general in the south.

Can you please define backward?

From dictionary.com
back"ward [bak-werd] Show IPA


adverb Also, back"wards.

1.

toward the back or rear.


2.

with the back foremost.


3.

in the reverse of the usual or right way: counting backward from 100.


4.

toward the past: to look backward over one's earlier mistakes.


5.

toward a less advanced state; retrogressively: Since the overthrow of the president the country has moved steadily backward.

------------------------------------
Retrogressively is usually understood to be the opposite of progressively. Something that will be of interest to those who think being progressive is a bad thing! Definitive of the US south as well as Russia I would say.

How exactly is it backwards, though? Because the people in the south are Republicans?
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
Iredia
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3/4/2014 4:12:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 3:49:58 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:


Society may be able to get rid of religions, but they probably will never completely extinguish religion in general.

Precisely. Unfortunately that also applies to atheism. Just as the potential for atheism, if not its presence was present in a ancient eras where religion dominated; the same would apply to religion. I'm very sure religion won't be entirely extinguished; there are a number of examples where this was tried and failed starting with Christianity in Rome, banning of religion in communist states like Russia etc.


Religion does not equal a backwards society. Just because they adopt it, that doesn't automatically mean it's backwards.

True. It appears because of how high HDI's frequent places where atheism and/secularism prevails the causation is made and_while it's possible_I've argued otherwise. In fact, I'd suggest that religious fervor was necessary to civilization; that may explain the clear pattern over time of investing rulers as divine representatives (from Akhenaten as Ra to Roman emperors worshipped as idols to the Divine rights of kings). Religion has done the heavy work of making humans subservient to their fellow humans in a heirarchy of sorts, all a secular humanist does is build on it.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
superflymegastallion
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3/4/2014 4:30:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 12:42:02 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
Look at this fine story I found:

http://ffrf.org...
http://www.foxnews.com...

Apparently the high and mighty of the FFRF saw fit to take the Bibles from the rooms at the University of Wisconsin lodging. Because there's always a chance that a Bible in a drawer can come to life and KILL YOU!! They call it "religious propaganda on state property." Yes, of course; because Bibles sitting in drawers are evil and should all be burned at once! Look at this interview between Fox News's Sean Hannity and FFRF's Annie Gaylor

"HANNITY: I debated you way back in Alabama, that's right. I'm getting younger every day.

Tell me what -- you go to the hotel, you and your husband or any member of your organization. So they have the Bible maybe at a -- in a drawer next to the bed. Tell me how you're so offended by this, that it is so outrageous, those people who would like it would have the choice to open it, forced to open it, doesn't take up space. Why is it such a big issue for you?

GAYLOR: Why would a university place a religious book in a hotel room?

HANNITY: Because they want to. Because they think their customers want it.

GAYLOR: Unless there was a message of endorsement. We think you should be reading this book or we think you would want to read this book. Imagine the outcry if somebody opened up their bedside table at a public supported institution and found Richard Dawkins "God Delusion" or found a Koran."


Nothing but utter stupidity from Gaylor. If I opened my bedside drawer in a hotel and found "The God Delusion" I wouldn't care. I could just read it or close the drawer. Nobody's endorsing they should read the Bible. It's just there. So who cares?
But wait, there's even more.

"HANNITY: We're talking about the Bible. If they wanted to put a Koran in there, I would have no problem. You're acting like you're so offended. And you're not offended. I don't believe for a second you're offended. I'm sure your organization will raise money on this, you'll send out letters saying you took on Iowa University.

GAYLOR: Well, I am offended because --


GAYLOR: I don't like to pay high prices to stay in a hotel room to find a book in there that says that I should be murdered, that blasphemers should be put to death, that homosexuals are an abomination, that women are subordinate, that it's OK to abuse children.


HANNITY: Don't open the book. They've got channels on the TV that you don't like. You probably don't like to watch me, usually.

GAYLOR: Well, you said that I am not offended, but I am offended by the Bible because I don't think there is another book where between whose pages life is so cheap, that sanctifies genocide."


Hannity said it best... Don't open the book. And here we have Gaylor setting up straw men left and right. The Bible doesn't sanctify child abuse, call homosexuals abominations (It only condemns the act of it.), and on the other things, we follow the teaching of Christi now. Galatians 6:2 and Matthew 22: 37-39 make this clear. And the Old Testament laws were given to the people of Israel, not Christians in general.
And the Bible in no way sanctifies genocide. It mentions it happening, but it doesn't say that we are all commanded to wipe out an entire race.

"HANNITY: You get off on insulting people's deeply held religious views. I know that's part of your thing. How much money does your organization take in a year?

GAYLOR: Well, actually that is none of your business.

HANNITY: That's none of my business? Because you're going to raise money off of this, aren't you?

GAYLOR: No, we haven't raised any money off it --

HANNITY: That little Bible that sits there is not offending you, but you're going to send out letters and raise money.

GAYLOR: We wrote a letter and pointed out that this is an --

HANNITY: You're going to raise money because you're not really offended. I don't believe that for a second.

GAYLOR: We didn't put out a press release saying donate on it. We just put out a press release pointing out that this is a victory for seculars --

HANNITY: And will you get checks in the mail supporting your group?

GAYLOR: Well, we are a membership organization and we do invite people who are free thinkers to join us. We are the largest atheist and agnostic organization in the country.

HANNITY: Are you pro-choice?

GAYLOR: Yes, I am.

HANNITY: All right, so --

GAYLOR: -- and we offer a free service to members of the public who encounter violence of the separation of church and state."

I think it's pretty clear here that this is beginning to lead nowhere. This isn't exactly as relevant but I wanted to include the whole thing.

"HANNITY: If the Bible is tucked into the drawer next to the bed and you choose not to open it, just like you may not want to watch a channel on TV that is on their channel, maybe even religious channels -- you are saying something that to me just makings zero sense and that I don't believe, and that you are so deeply --

GAYLOR: Well, I would think you would be offended if you found "The God Delusion" and atheistic materials in a hotel that was supported by the government, a public university hotel. Don't tell me you wouldn't be."


Why would we be offended? It's just sitting there in a drawer.

"HANNITY: Up until the early 1960s the Lord's Prayer was said in school, Bible reading was done on a regular basis until two Supreme Court decisions. That means from 1776, our founding document, our declaration, through 1787, all the way up until the 1960s, Bible reading was done in school and the Lord's Prayer was said. And guess what? A theocracy never emerged in America. Isn't that interesting.

GAYLOR: Sean, that is not true.

HANNITY: It is true.

GAYLOR: No. In the state of Wisconsin, for example, our Supreme Court out lawed Bible reading in the public schools in 1890. The same was true in other states. It was a fairly recent thing that happened in the 50s that you had so many states deciding that the Lord's Prayer, we owe a great debt --"


I'm all for freedom of expression, but this is ridiculous. If you're going to take Bibles just sitting in drawers out of hotels because you think they're going to jump out and kill you, why not save a step and take them out of our libraries, too? And perhaps our homes? Or just get rid of them entirely? People and organizations like these are putting all atheists in a bad light that they don't deserve; and I don't think most atheists are like Gaylor or the FFRF.
As an atheist, I don't care if there is a bible in the drawer. I simply wouldn't read it if I didn't want to.
However, I think a lot of us miss the point of Gaylors' argument. I don't really think it is about the bible, but the differences made for religious people or institutions. He asked "what if it was a Quran etc... and Hannity said that he simply wouldn't read it.
I wonder if it was a Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler magazine or such. Would the argument of don't open it still hold water? Not only that, it would be front page news and on the evening news, Fox, CNN, MSNBC and everybody would be outraged. Using Hannity's comment, I don't know why, just don't open it, right?
Pitbull15
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3/4/2014 4:44:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 4:30:24 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:

As an atheist, I don't care if there is a bible in the drawer. I simply wouldn't read it if I didn't want to.
However, I think a lot of us miss the point of Gaylors' argument. I don't really think it is about the bible, but the differences made for religious people or institutions. He asked "what if it was a Quran etc... and Hannity said that he simply wouldn't read it.
I wonder if it was a Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler magazine or such. Would the argument of don't open it still hold water? Not only that, it would be front page news and on the evening news, Fox, CNN, MSNBC and everybody would be outraged. Using Hannity's comment, I don't know why, just don't open it, right?

As much as I'd like to believe that, Gaylor's actions and words say otherwise; as do the actions of the organization she's speaking for. She seems to be extremely biased and bigoted toward Christianity specifically. I've never heard her make one negative comment about Islam or any other religions, except when she uses them for argument's sake. E.g. "What if it was a Quran? *begins to whine about 'offending' other people ad nauseam*." Just don't open the book if you don't want to. It's not hurting anyone by sitting in the drawer.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

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superflymegastallion
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3/4/2014 4:49:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 4:44:21 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:30:24 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:

As an atheist, I don't care if there is a bible in the drawer. I simply wouldn't read it if I didn't want to.
However, I think a lot of us miss the point of Gaylors' argument. I don't really think it is about the bible, but the differences made for religious people or institutions. He asked "what if it was a Quran etc... and Hannity said that he simply wouldn't read it.
I wonder if it was a Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler magazine or such. Would the argument of don't open it still hold water? Not only that, it would be front page news and on the evening news, Fox, CNN, MSNBC and everybody would be outraged. Using Hannity's comment, I don't know why, just don't open it, right?

As much as I'd like to believe that, Gaylor's actions and words say otherwise; as do the actions of the organization she's speaking for.
I don't know who she is, or her stance, so I couldn't speak about her intelligently. I'm just playing devils advocate. That's why I mentioned the pornography. Would that offend you, or would you be ok with it?
She seems to be extremely biased and bigoted toward Christianity specifically. I've never heard her make one negative comment about Islam or any other religions, except when she uses them for argument's sake. E.g. "What if it was a Quran? *begins to whine about 'offending' other people ad nauseam*.
This is probably because she isn't well read on the Quran, and Christianity is the dominate religion in the U.S.
" Just don't open the book if you don't want to. It's not hurting anyone by sitting in the drawer.
Same goes for pornography right?
Pitbull15
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3/4/2014 4:52:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 4:49:16 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:44:21 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:30:24 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:

As an atheist, I don't care if there is a bible in the drawer. I simply wouldn't read it if I didn't want to.
However, I think a lot of us miss the point of Gaylors' argument. I don't really think it is about the bible, but the differences made for religious people or institutions. He asked "what if it was a Quran etc... and Hannity said that he simply wouldn't read it.
I wonder if it was a Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler magazine or such. Would the argument of don't open it still hold water? Not only that, it would be front page news and on the evening news, Fox, CNN, MSNBC and everybody would be outraged. Using Hannity's comment, I don't know why, just don't open it, right?

As much as I'd like to believe that, Gaylor's actions and words say otherwise; as do the actions of the organization she's speaking for.
I don't know who she is, or her stance, so I couldn't speak about her intelligently. I'm just playing devils advocate. That's why I mentioned the pornography. Would that offend you, or would you be ok with it?
She seems to be extremely biased and bigoted toward Christianity specifically. I've never heard her make one negative comment about Islam or any other religions, except when she uses them for argument's sake. E.g. "What if it was a Quran? *begins to whine about 'offending' other people ad nauseam*.
This is probably because she isn't well read on the Quran, and Christianity is the dominate religion in the U.S.
" Just don't open the book if you don't want to. It's not hurting anyone by sitting in the drawer.
Same goes for pornography right?

I wouldn't be offended if I found pornography in the drawer. It's not hurting me if I leave it there. If it is in plain sight, I can just stash it in the drawer or something. A hotel's a place to sleep, it serves its purpose regardless of what's found in the drawers.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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3/4/2014 4:53:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 4:52:47 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:49:16 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:44:21 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:30:24 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:

As an atheist, I don't care if there is a bible in the drawer. I simply wouldn't read it if I didn't want to.
However, I think a lot of us miss the point of Gaylors' argument. I don't really think it is about the bible, but the differences made for religious people or institutions. He asked "what if it was a Quran etc... and Hannity said that he simply wouldn't read it.
I wonder if it was a Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler magazine or such. Would the argument of don't open it still hold water? Not only that, it would be front page news and on the evening news, Fox, CNN, MSNBC and everybody would be outraged. Using Hannity's comment, I don't know why, just don't open it, right?

As much as I'd like to believe that, Gaylor's actions and words say otherwise; as do the actions of the organization she's speaking for.
I don't know who she is, or her stance, so I couldn't speak about her intelligently. I'm just playing devils advocate. That's why I mentioned the pornography. Would that offend you, or would you be ok with it?
She seems to be extremely biased and bigoted toward Christianity specifically. I've never heard her make one negative comment about Islam or any other religions, except when she uses them for argument's sake. E.g. "What if it was a Quran? *begins to whine about 'offending' other people ad nauseam*.
This is probably because she isn't well read on the Quran, and Christianity is the dominate religion in the U.S.
" Just don't open the book if you don't want to. It's not hurting anyone by sitting in the drawer.
Same goes for pornography right?

I wouldn't be offended if I found pornography in the drawer. It's not hurting me if I leave it there. If it is in plain sight, I can just stash it in the drawer or something. A hotel's a place to sleep, it serves its purpose regardless of what's found in the drawers. And you also must remember that these Bibles were donated to the rooms, too.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
s-anthony
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3/4/2014 4:57:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 12:42:02 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
Look at this fine story I found:

http://ffrf.org...
http://www.foxnews.com...

Apparently the high and mighty of the FFRF saw fit to take the Bibles from the rooms at the University of Wisconsin lodging. Because there's always a chance that a Bible in a drawer can come to life and KILL YOU!! They call it "religious propaganda on state property." Yes, of course; because Bibles sitting in drawers are evil and should all be burned at once! Look at this interview between Fox News's Sean Hannity and FFRF's Annie Gaylor

"HANNITY: I debated you way back in Alabama, that's right. I'm getting younger every day.

Tell me what -- you go to the hotel, you and your husband or any member of your organization. So they have the Bible maybe at a -- in a drawer next to the bed. Tell me how you're so offended by this, that it is so outrageous, those people who would like it would have the choice to open it, forced to open it, doesn't take up space. Why is it such a big issue for you?

GAYLOR: Why would a university place a religious book in a hotel room?

HANNITY: Because they want to. Because they think their customers want it.

GAYLOR: Unless there was a message of endorsement. We think you should be reading this book or we think you would want to read this book. Imagine the outcry if somebody opened up their bedside table at a public supported institution and found Richard Dawkins "God Delusion" or found a Koran."


Nothing but utter stupidity from Gaylor. If I opened my bedside drawer in a hotel and found "The God Delusion" I wouldn't care. I could just read it or close the drawer. Nobody's endorsing they should read the Bible. It's just there. So who cares?
But wait, there's even more.

"HANNITY: We're talking about the Bible. If they wanted to put a Koran in there, I would have no problem. You're acting like you're so offended. And you're not offended. I don't believe for a second you're offended. I'm sure your organization will raise money on this, you'll send out letters saying you took on Iowa University.

GAYLOR: Well, I am offended because --


GAYLOR: I don't like to pay high prices to stay in a hotel room to find a book in there that says that I should be murdered, that blasphemers should be put to death, that homosexuals are an abomination, that women are subordinate, that it's OK to abuse children.


HANNITY: Don't open the book. They've got channels on the TV that you don't like. You probably don't like to watch me, usually.

GAYLOR: Well, you said that I am not offended, but I am offended by the Bible because I don't think there is another book where between whose pages life is so cheap, that sanctifies genocide."


Hannity said it best... Don't open the book. And here we have Gaylor setting up straw men left and right. The Bible doesn't sanctify child abuse, call homosexuals abominations (It only condemns the act of it.), and on the other things, we follow the teaching of Christi now. Galatians 6:2 and Matthew 22: 37-39 make this clear. And the Old Testament laws were given to the people of Israel, not Christians in general.
And the Bible in no way sanctifies genocide. It mentions it happening, but it doesn't say that we are all commanded to wipe out an entire race.

"HANNITY: You get off on insulting people's deeply held religious views. I know that's part of your thing. How much money does your organization take in a year?

GAYLOR: Well, actually that is none of your business.

HANNITY: That's none of my business? Because you're going to raise money off of this, aren't you?

GAYLOR: No, we haven't raised any money off it --

HANNITY: That little Bible that sits there is not offending you, but you're going to send out letters and raise money.

GAYLOR: We wrote a letter and pointed out that this is an --

HANNITY: You're going to raise money because you're not really offended. I don't believe that for a second.

GAYLOR: We didn't put out a press release saying donate on it. We just put out a press release pointing out that this is a victory for seculars --

HANNITY: And will you get checks in the mail supporting your group?

GAYLOR: Well, we are a membership organization and we do invite people who are free thinkers to join us. We are the largest atheist and agnostic organization in the country.

HANNITY: Are you pro-choice?

GAYLOR: Yes, I am.

HANNITY: All right, so --

GAYLOR: -- and we offer a free service to members of the public who encounter violence of the separation of church and state."

I think it's pretty clear here that this is beginning to lead nowhere. This isn't exactly as relevant but I wanted to include the whole thing.

"HANNITY: If the Bible is tucked into the drawer next to the bed and you choose not to open it, just like you may not want to watch a channel on TV that is on their channel, maybe even religious channels -- you are saying something that to me just makings zero sense and that I don't believe, and that you are so deeply --

GAYLOR: Well, I would think you would be offended if you found "The God Delusion" and atheistic materials in a hotel that was supported by the government, a public university hotel. Don't tell me you wouldn't be."


Why would we be offended? It's just sitting there in a drawer.

"HANNITY: Up until the early 1960s the Lord's Prayer was said in school, Bible reading was done on a regular basis until two Supreme Court decisions. That means from 1776, our founding document, our declaration, through 1787, all the way up until the 1960s, Bible reading was done in school and the Lord's Prayer was said. And guess what? A theocracy never emerged in America. Isn't that interesting.

GAYLOR: Sean, that is not true.

HANNITY: It is true.

GAYLOR: No. In the state of Wisconsin, for example, our Supreme Court out lawed Bible reading in the public schools in 1890. The same was true in other states. It was a fairly recent thing that happened in the 50s that you had so many states deciding that the Lord's Prayer, we owe a great debt --"


I'm all for freedom of expression, but this is ridiculous. If you're going to take Bibles just sitting in drawers out of hotels because you think they're going to jump out and kill you, why not save a step and take them out of our libraries, too? And perhaps our homes? Or just get rid of them entirely? People and organizations like these are putting all atheists in a bad light that they don't deserve; and I don't think most atheists are like Gaylor or the FFRF.

No one has any objection to a religious book's being in a privately owned business, one that doesn't use tax payer dollars to support it. Just as no one has objection to a faculty-led or student-led prayer at a private school.

The issue is using tax payer dollars in the promotion of a religion.

If you said you don't have a problem with atheists' or those representing other religions than Christianity's propagating their beliefs in a public forum, I find that highly doubtful.
superflymegastallion
Posts: 370
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3/4/2014 4:58:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 4:53:52 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:52:47 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:49:16 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:44:21 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:30:24 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:

As an atheist, I don't care if there is a bible in the drawer. I simply wouldn't read it if I didn't want to.
However, I think a lot of us miss the point of Gaylors' argument. I don't really think it is about the bible, but the differences made for religious people or institutions. He asked "what if it was a Quran etc... and Hannity said that he simply wouldn't read it.
I wonder if it was a Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler magazine or such. Would the argument of don't open it still hold water? Not only that, it would be front page news and on the evening news, Fox, CNN, MSNBC and everybody would be outraged. Using Hannity's comment, I don't know why, just don't open it, right?

As much as I'd like to believe that, Gaylor's actions and words say otherwise; as do the actions of the organization she's speaking for.
I don't know who she is, or her stance, so I couldn't speak about her intelligently. I'm just playing devils advocate. That's why I mentioned the pornography. Would that offend you, or would you be ok with it?
She seems to be extremely biased and bigoted toward Christianity specifically. I've never heard her make one negative comment about Islam or any other religions, except when she uses them for argument's sake. E.g. "What if it was a Quran? *begins to whine about 'offending' other people ad nauseam*.
This is probably because she isn't well read on the Quran, and Christianity is the dominate religion in the U.S.
" Just don't open the book if you don't want to. It's not hurting anyone by sitting in the drawer.
Same goes for pornography right?

I wouldn't be offended if I found pornography in the drawer. It's not hurting me if I leave it there. If it is in plain sight, I can just stash it in the drawer or something. A hotel's a place to sleep, it serves its purpose regardless of what's found in the drawers. And you also must remember that these Bibles were donated to the rooms, too.
Fair enough. We have covered you and I now. We already know what Gaylor's opinion is regarding the bible. What do you think Hannity would do if he discovered pornography? I do know enough about him to answer that question fairly I think.
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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3/4/2014 5:06:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 12:42:02 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
Look at this fine story I found:

*stuff*

It's still a public university using public space to endorse a specific religion. Why should my tax money be spent on the endorsement of your religion?
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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3/4/2014 5:06:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 4:57:37 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 3/4/2014 12:42:02 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
Look at this fine story I found:

http://ffrf.org...
http://www.foxnews.com...

Apparently the high and mighty of the FFRF saw fit to take the Bibles from the rooms at the University of Wisconsin lodging. Because there's always a chance that a Bible in a drawer can come to life and KILL YOU!! They call it "religious propaganda on state property." Yes, of course; because Bibles sitting in drawers are evil and should all be burned at once! Look at this interview between Fox News's Sean Hannity and FFRF's Annie Gaylor

"HANNITY: I debated you way back in Alabama, that's right. I'm getting younger every day.

Tell me what -- you go to the hotel, you and your husband or any member of your organization. So they have the Bible maybe at a -- in a drawer next to the bed. Tell me how you're so offended by this, that it is so outrageous, those people who would like it would have the choice to open it, forced to open it, doesn't take up space. Why is it such a big issue for you?

GAYLOR: Why would a university place a religious book in a hotel room?

HANNITY: Because they want to. Because they think their customers want it.

GAYLOR: Unless there was a message of endorsement. We think you should be reading this book or we think you would want to read this book. Imagine the outcry if somebody opened up their bedside table at a public supported institution and found Richard Dawkins "God Delusion" or found a Koran."


Nothing but utter stupidity from Gaylor. If I opened my bedside drawer in a hotel and found "The God Delusion" I wouldn't care. I could just read it or close the drawer. Nobody's endorsing they should read the Bible. It's just there. So who cares?
But wait, there's even more.

"HANNITY: We're talking about the Bible. If they wanted to put a Koran in there, I would have no problem. You're acting like you're so offended. And you're not offended. I don't believe for a second you're offended. I'm sure your organization will raise money on this, you'll send out letters saying you took on Iowa University.

GAYLOR: Well, I am offended because --


GAYLOR: I don't like to pay high prices to stay in a hotel room to find a book in there that says that I should be murdered, that blasphemers should be put to death, that homosexuals are an abomination, that women are subordinate, that it's OK to abuse children.


HANNITY: Don't open the book. They've got channels on the TV that you don't like. You probably don't like to watch me, usually.

GAYLOR: Well, you said that I am not offended, but I am offended by the Bible because I don't think there is another book where between whose pages life is so cheap, that sanctifies genocide."


Hannity said it best... Don't open the book. And here we have Gaylor setting up straw men left and right. The Bible doesn't sanctify child abuse, call homosexuals abominations (It only condemns the act of it.), and on the other things, we follow the teaching of Christi now. Galatians 6:2 and Matthew 22: 37-39 make this clear. And the Old Testament laws were given to the people of Israel, not Christians in general.
And the Bible in no way sanctifies genocide. It mentions it happening, but it doesn't say that we are all commanded to wipe out an entire race.

"HANNITY: You get off on insulting people's deeply held religious views. I know that's part of your thing. How much money does your organization take in a year?

GAYLOR: Well, actually that is none of your business.

HANNITY: That's none of my business? Because you're going to raise money off of this, aren't you?

GAYLOR: No, we haven't raised any money off it --

HANNITY: That little Bible that sits there is not offending you, but you're going to send out letters and raise money.

GAYLOR: We wrote a letter and pointed out that this is an --

HANNITY: You're going to raise money because you're not really offended. I don't believe that for a second.

GAYLOR: We didn't put out a press release saying donate on it. We just put out a press release pointing out that this is a victory for seculars --

HANNITY: And will you get checks in the mail supporting your group?

GAYLOR: Well, we are a membership organization and we do invite people who are free thinkers to join us. We are the largest atheist and agnostic organization in the country.

HANNITY: Are you pro-choice?

GAYLOR: Yes, I am.

HANNITY: All right, so --

GAYLOR: -- and we offer a free service to members of the public who encounter violence of the separation of church and state."

I think it's pretty clear here that this is beginning to lead nowhere. This isn't exactly as relevant but I wanted to include the whole thing.

"HANNITY: If the Bible is tucked into the drawer next to the bed and you choose not to open it, just like you may not want to watch a channel on TV that is on their channel, maybe even religious channels -- you are saying something that to me just makings zero sense and that I don't believe, and that you are so deeply --

GAYLOR: Well, I would think you would be offended if you found "The God Delusion" and atheistic materials in a hotel that was supported by the government, a public university hotel. Don't tell me you wouldn't be."


Why would we be offended? It's just sitting there in a drawer.

"HANNITY: Up until the early 1960s the Lord's Prayer was said in school, Bible reading was done on a regular basis until two Supreme Court decisions. That means from 1776, our founding document, our declaration, through 1787, all the way up until the 1960s, Bible reading was done in school and the Lord's Prayer was said. And guess what? A theocracy never emerged in America. Isn't that interesting.

GAYLOR: Sean, that is not true.

HANNITY: It is true.

GAYLOR: No. In the state of Wisconsin, for example, our Supreme Court out lawed Bible reading in the public schools in 1890. The same was true in other states. It was a fairly recent thing that happened in the 50s that you had so many states deciding that the Lord's Prayer, we owe a great debt --"


I'm all for freedom of expression, but this is ridiculous. If you're going to take Bibles just sitting in drawers out of hotels because you think they're going to jump out and kill you, why not save a step and take them out of our libraries, too? And perhaps our homes? Or just get rid of them entirely? People and organizations like these are putting all atheists in a bad light that they don't deserve; and I don't think most atheists are like Gaylor or the FFRF.

No one has any objection to a religious book's being in a privately owned business, one that doesn't use tax payer dollars to support it. Just as no one has objection to a faculty-led or student-led prayer at a private school.

The issue is using tax payer dollars in the promotion of a religion.

If you said you don't have a problem with atheists' or those representing other religions than Christianity's propagating their beliefs in a public forum, I find that highly doubtful.

What needs to be understood, though, is that these Bibles were donated to the rooms. And I see why you may find my reasoning doubtful, but the thing is that they can spread what they want as long as it's not hatred; but when they limit our right to speak while slamming us, then I get pissed.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
Pitbull15
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3/4/2014 5:08:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 5:06:45 PM, drhead wrote:
At 3/4/2014 12:42:02 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
Look at this fine story I found:

*stuff*

It's still a public university using public space to endorse a specific religion. Why should my tax money be spent on the endorsement of your religion?

It's not. The Bibles were donated.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
Pitbull15
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3/4/2014 5:11:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 4:58:18 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:53:52 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:52:47 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:49:16 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:44:21 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:30:24 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:

As an atheist, I don't care if there is a bible in the drawer. I simply wouldn't read it if I didn't want to.
However, I think a lot of us miss the point of Gaylors' argument. I don't really think it is about the bible, but the differences made for religious people or institutions. He asked "what if it was a Quran etc... and Hannity said that he simply wouldn't read it.
I wonder if it was a Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler magazine or such. Would the argument of don't open it still hold water? Not only that, it would be front page news and on the evening news, Fox, CNN, MSNBC and everybody would be outraged. Using Hannity's comment, I don't know why, just don't open it, right?

As much as I'd like to believe that, Gaylor's actions and words say otherwise; as do the actions of the organization she's speaking for.
I don't know who she is, or her stance, so I couldn't speak about her intelligently. I'm just playing devils advocate. That's why I mentioned the pornography. Would that offend you, or would you be ok with it?
She seems to be extremely biased and bigoted toward Christianity specifically. I've never heard her make one negative comment about Islam or any other religions, except when she uses them for argument's sake. E.g. "What if it was a Quran? *begins to whine about 'offending' other people ad nauseam*.
This is probably because she isn't well read on the Quran, and Christianity is the dominate religion in the U.S.
" Just don't open the book if you don't want to. It's not hurting anyone by sitting in the drawer.
Same goes for pornography right?

I wouldn't be offended if I found pornography in the drawer. It's not hurting me if I leave it there. If it is in plain sight, I can just stash it in the drawer or something. A hotel's a place to sleep, it serves its purpose regardless of what's found in the drawers. And you also must remember that these Bibles were donated to the rooms, too.
Fair enough. We have covered you and I now. We already know what Gaylor's opinion is regarding the bible. What do you think Hannity would do if he discovered pornography? I do know enough about him to answer that question fairly I think.

Since you seem to know more about him than I do, (I don't watch him on a regular basis, this was just the best interview I could find.) what do you think he'd do? Would he be outraged? We don't know for sure unless he actually finds some.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
superflymegastallion
Posts: 370
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3/4/2014 5:13:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/4/2014 5:11:03 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:58:18 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:53:52 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:52:47 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:49:16 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:44:21 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/4/2014 4:30:24 PM, superflymegastallion wrote:

As an atheist, I don't care if there is a bible in the drawer. I simply wouldn't read it if I didn't want to.
However, I think a lot of us miss the point of Gaylors' argument. I don't really think it is about the bible, but the differences made for religious people or institutions. He asked "what if it was a Quran etc... and Hannity said that he simply wouldn't read it.
I wonder if it was a Playboy, Penthouse, Hustler magazine or such. Would the argument of don't open it still hold water? Not only that, it would be front page news and on the evening news, Fox, CNN, MSNBC and everybody would be outraged. Using Hannity's comment, I don't know why, just don't open it, right?

As much as I'd like to believe that, Gaylor's actions and words say otherwise; as do the actions of the organization she's speaking for.
I don't know who she is, or her stance, so I couldn't speak about her intelligently. I'm just playing devils advocate. That's why I mentioned the pornography. Would that offend you, or would you be ok with it?
She seems to be extremely biased and bigoted toward Christianity specifically. I've never heard her make one negative comment about Islam or any other religions, except when she uses them for argument's sake. E.g. "What if it was a Quran? *begins to whine about 'offending' other people ad nauseam*.
This is probably because she isn't well read on the Quran, and Christianity is the dominate religion in the U.S.
" Just don't open the book if you don't want to. It's not hurting anyone by sitting in the drawer.
Same goes for pornography right?

I wouldn't be offended if I found pornography in the drawer. It's not hurting me if I leave it there. If it is in plain sight, I can just stash it in the drawer or something. A hotel's a place to sleep, it serves its purpose regardless of what's found in the drawers. And you also must remember that these Bibles were donated to the rooms, too.
Fair enough. We have covered you and I now. We already know what Gaylor's opinion is regarding the bible. What do you think Hannity would do if he discovered pornography? I do know enough about him to answer that question fairly I think.

Since you seem to know more about him than I do, (I don't watch him on a regular basis, this was just the best interview I could find.) what do you think he'd do? Would he be outraged? We don't know for sure unless he actually finds some.
You're right, I don't know for sure.
But I also do know for sure. It would be all you heard about on his show for weeks.