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God is love

surrendersacrifice
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3/5/2014 10:15:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
God is love; and love is a spirit which is unconditional, pure, selfless, forgiving and sacrificial. It is the inner most desire of our heart, and the only source of our peace and joy. Because love is unconditional it is not affected by conditions that surround us. It therefore, does not discriminate between friends and foes. Furthermore it is the force that propels us to surrender our own interest in order to serve those who hurt and betray us. Love took a human form in Jesus (who is God), who accepted the most painful and shameful death on the cross, so that, we, who betrayed him and hurt him by our sins, may have eternal life. His sacrifice kindles the spirit of love in our heart. This enables us to love one another as he has loved us (John 13:34-35); quietly bear each other"s burdens; die to self in order to bring healing to those who hurt and betray us; forgive without any limit (Matt. 18:22); bind each other"s wounds; stay faithful to our marriage covenant even when there is hurt, betrayal and frustrations; and be a servant to our fellow human beings. Since this love is not affected by what happens around us it is eternal and those who make it their life will have eternal life.
Love is the spirit of surrender, sacrifice, service
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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3/5/2014 10:34:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 10:15:31 PM, surrendersacrifice wrote:
God is love; . . . .
Assuming for this claim your god literally exists outside of your imagination, where is your supposed literal evidence for this?
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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3/5/2014 10:43:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 10:15:31 PM, surrendersacrifice wrote:
God is love; and love is a spirit which is unconditional, pure, selfless, forgiving and sacrificial. It is the inner most desire of our heart, and the only source of our peace and joy. Because love is unconditional it is not affected by conditions that surround us. It therefore, does not discriminate between friends and foes. Furthermore it is the force that propels us to surrender our own interest in order to serve those who hurt and betray us. Love took a human form in Jesus (who is God), who accepted the most painful and shameful death on the cross, so that, we, who betrayed him and hurt him by our sins, may have eternal life. His sacrifice kindles the spirit of love in our heart. This enables us to love one another as he has loved us (John 13:34-35); quietly bear each other"s burdens; die to self in order to bring healing to those who hurt and betray us; forgive without any limit (Matt. 18:22); bind each other"s wounds; stay faithful to our marriage covenant even when there is hurt, betrayal and frustrations; and be a servant to our fellow human beings. Since this love is not affected by what happens around us it is eternal and those who make it their life will have eternal life.

If God is love and love is unconditional, there's nothing to forgive. Love's having no conditions would love under any condition. To say God loves unconditionally yet not under certain conditions is a contradiction in terms. To say God loves yet forgives is to say God finds certain conditions unlovable.
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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3/6/2014 7:02:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 10:15:31 PM, surrendersacrifice wrote:
God is love; and love is a spirit which is unconditional, pure, selfless, forgiving and sacrificial. It is the inner most desire of our heart, and the only source of our peace and joy. Because love is unconditional it is not affected by conditions that surround us. It therefore, does not discriminate between friends and foes. Furthermore it is the force that propels us to surrender our own interest in order to serve those who hurt and betray us. Love took a human form in Jesus (who is God), who accepted the most painful and shameful death on the cross, so that, we, who betrayed him and hurt him by our sins, may have eternal life. His sacrifice kindles the spirit of love in our heart. This enables us to love one another as he has loved us (John 13:34-35); quietly bear each other"s burdens; die to self in order to bring healing to those who hurt and betray us; forgive without any limit (Matt. 18:22); bind each other"s wounds; stay faithful to our marriage covenant even when there is hurt, betrayal and frustrations; and be a servant to our fellow human beings. Since this love is not affected by what happens around us it is eternal and those who make it their life will have eternal life.

If god was love, he wouldn't give people diseases and sh*tty lives. I understand that sometimes a parent might allow a child to make mistakes, in order to teach them not to in the future. To make them stronger. How will a child dying of hunger make anyone stronger? How do diseases and earthquakes make you stronger?
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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3/6/2014 7:14:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 7:02:03 AM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 3/5/2014 10:15:31 PM, surrendersacrifice wrote:
God is love; and love is a spirit which is unconditional, pure, selfless, forgiving and sacrificial. It is the inner most desire of our heart, and the only source of our peace and joy. Because love is unconditional it is not affected by conditions that surround us. It therefore, does not discriminate between friends and foes. Furthermore it is the force that propels us to surrender our own interest in order to serve those who hurt and betray us. Love took a human form in Jesus (who is God), who accepted the most painful and shameful death on the cross, so that, we, who betrayed him and hurt him by our sins, may have eternal life. His sacrifice kindles the spirit of love in our heart. This enables us to love one another as he has loved us (John 13:34-35); quietly bear each other"s burdens; die to self in order to bring healing to those who hurt and betray us; forgive without any limit (Matt. 18:22); bind each other"s wounds; stay faithful to our marriage covenant even when there is hurt, betrayal and frustrations; and be a servant to our fellow human beings. Since this love is not affected by what happens around us it is eternal and those who make it their life will have eternal life.

If god was love, he wouldn't give people diseases and sh*tty lives. I understand that sometimes a parent might allow a child to make mistakes, in order to teach them not to in the future. To make them stronger. How will a child dying of hunger make anyone stronger? How do diseases and earthquakes make you stronger?

That is not the fault of God. That is the fault of humanity and original sin.
Nolite Timere
tcpanter
Posts: 13
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3/6/2014 7:43:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
If god was love, he wouldn't give people diseases and sh*tty lives. I understand that sometimes a parent might allow a child to make mistakes, in order to teach them not to in the future. To make them stronger. How will a child dying of hunger make anyone stronger? How do diseases and earthquakes make you stronger?

That is not the fault of God. That is the fault of humanity and original sin.

Really because there is a mountain of serious scientific knowledge that indicates that Earthquakes are the result of tectonic activity. Also it seems that more religious countries are more prone to Earthquakes tornados and volcanoes which flies completely in the face of your ridiculous comment.
tcpanter
Posts: 13
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3/6/2014 7:44:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Not to mention that if God is responsible for things happening then he decided that original sin was to be punished with earthquakes so it makes even less sense.
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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3/6/2014 7:45:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 7:14:08 AM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/6/2014 7:02:03 AM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 3/5/2014 10:15:31 PM, surrendersacrifice wrote:
God is love; and love is a spirit which is unconditional, pure, selfless, forgiving and sacrificial. It is the inner most desire of our heart, and the only source of our peace and joy. Because love is unconditional it is not affected by conditions that surround us. It therefore, does not discriminate between friends and foes. Furthermore it is the force that propels us to surrender our own interest in order to serve those who hurt and betray us. Love took a human form in Jesus (who is God), who accepted the most painful and shameful death on the cross, so that, we, who betrayed him and hurt him by our sins, may have eternal life. His sacrifice kindles the spirit of love in our heart. This enables us to love one another as he has loved us (John 13:34-35); quietly bear each other"s burdens; die to self in order to bring healing to those who hurt and betray us; forgive without any limit (Matt. 18:22); bind each other"s wounds; stay faithful to our marriage covenant even when there is hurt, betrayal and frustrations; and be a servant to our fellow human beings. Since this love is not affected by what happens around us it is eternal and those who make it their life will have eternal life.

If god was love, he wouldn't give people diseases and sh*tty lives. I understand that sometimes a parent might allow a child to make mistakes, in order to teach them not to in the future. To make them stronger. How will a child dying of hunger make anyone stronger? How do diseases and earthquakes make you stronger?

That is not the fault of God. That is the fault of humanity and original sin.

Why does god have original sin? It seems fairly moronic and unloving to punish, or allow punishment to befall a group for the actions of their incestuous ancestors.

I have a question. Let's say I have the power to move small groups of people from their present location to another location safely. This takes little to no effort on my part. All I have to do it look at them, and think about where I want to move them, and *poof*. Now let's say I'm going for a nice stroll in the woods of Pennsylvania, when I come across traintracks. There are 7 people working on the tracks, but suddenly a train comes. I do not have time to warn them, and they cannot see it themselves. I can however, translocate them about five feet over to a safe place next to the tracks. I did not create the situation (I think god did create the situation, but whatever), but it would be wrong and unloving of me to not to help them, when it takes so little effort on my part.

So why does god not simply absolve everyone of original sin? Can he not do that? And who created original sin in the first place? Was it Adam and Eve, or was it god when he put the tree of knowledge right in front of them? And isn't he all knowing? Then he would know what was going to happen, wouldn't he?

The only way to say he is loving is to remove something. Make him a mortal like us who makes mistakes and cannot fix all ills. I believe that I am loving. If I could cure cancer, I would. Cancer still exists and is not fully cured, not because I am unloving, but because I have not the power to get rid of cancer. God has that power.
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
ZMowlcher
Posts: 51
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3/6/2014 10:56:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 10:54:26 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
No, shrek is love, shrek is life.

All hail the ogrelord!
Always angry, All the time.
biomystic
Posts: 606
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3/6/2014 5:55:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
God is love, the Source of Love, the Source of Kindness, the Source of Compassion, of
Source of Mercy, the Source of Comfort. God is Mother.

God is Law, the Source of Laws that govern Creation physically and spiritually. Creation runs on Law, not on Love, so God's Love is found rarely in communities where Law rules, either the Law of the Jungle or the Law of men in control. Don't expect God's Love to be there. If Creation were perfect there would no need of a Savior then would there? Creation is not perfect and were Love is not recognized, like right here on these comments, we can expect the society we have today--not much love spread around and whole lot of hate. Look at the atheist hatred of God in comments here about love..typical of our warped society that doesn't know how to teach spiritual consciousness anymore thus producing atheists right and left.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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3/6/2014 6:05:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 7:43:50 AM, tcpanter wrote:
If god was love, he wouldn't give people diseases and sh*tty lives. I understand that sometimes a parent might allow a child to make mistakes, in order to teach them not to in the future. To make them stronger. How will a child dying of hunger make anyone stronger? How do diseases and earthquakes make you stronger?

That is not the fault of God. That is the fault of humanity and original sin.

Really because there is a mountain of serious scientific knowledge that indicates that Earthquakes are the result of tectonic activity. Also it seems that more religious countries are more prone to Earthquakes tornados and volcanoes which flies completely in the face of your ridiculous comment.

The idea is that God originally to make a perfect world, but in order to do that he needed perfection from human beings. Humans sinned not allowing God to fulfill his plan of a perfect creation. This is why after the final judgement God will make a new Heaven on Earth in order to fulfill what he originally set out to do.
Nolite Timere
biomystic
Posts: 606
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3/6/2014 6:13:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 6:05:39 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/6/2014 7:43:50 AM, tcpanter wrote:
If god was love, he wouldn't give people diseases and sh*tty lives. I understand that sometimes a parent might allow a child to make mistakes, in order to teach them not to in the future. To make them stronger. How will a child dying of hunger make anyone stronger? How do diseases and earthquakes make you stronger?

That is not the fault of God. That is the fault of humanity and original sin.

Really because there is a mountain of serious scientific knowledge that indicates that Earthquakes are the result of tectonic activity. Also it seems that more religious countries are more prone to Earthquakes tornados and volcanoes which flies completely in the face of your ridiculous comment.

The idea is that God originally to make a perfect world, but in order to do that he needed perfection from human beings. Humans sinned not allowing God to fulfill his plan of a perfect creation. This is why after the final judgement God will make a new Heaven on Earth in order to fulfill what he originally set out to do.

Lunacy. Why would a god make a world where he expected perfection and yet create imperfect beings and then be shallow and stupid enough to lay blame on his own creations when they screw up? Are you nuts? Why believe this irrational garbage of a god making people imperfect and then blaming them instead of self, the Maker? What kind of god are you worshiping there? Do you know?
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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3/6/2014 6:14:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 7:45:09 AM, Lordgrae wrote:
That is not the fault of God. That is the fault of humanity and original sin.

Why does god have original sin?

God gave us free will. Original sin wasn't a creation by God, rather it had an inherent existence through free will.

It seems fairly moronic and unloving to punish, or allow punishment to befall a group for the actions of their incestuous ancestors.

That's not exactly how original sin works. Sin itself, specifically the first sin halted God's plan for perfection all together, which is the cause of all natural evils in this world. For example, natural disaster, disease, weak will power, ect. To to the affects of sin, humans were further weakened and continued to sin.

I have a question. Let's say I have the power to move small groups of people from their present location to another location safely. This takes little to no effort on my part. All I have to do it look at them, and think about where I want to move them, and *poof*. Now let's say I'm going for a nice stroll in the woods of Pennsylvania, when I come across traintracks. There are 7 people working on the tracks, but suddenly a train comes. I do not have time to warn them, and they cannot see it themselves. I can however, translocate them about five feet over to a safe place next to the tracks. I did not create the situation (I think god did create the situation, but whatever), but it would be wrong and unloving of me to not to help them, when it takes so little effort on my part.

God doesn't not necessarily interfere with the actions of others, for that would degrade our free will. In addition, divine intervention contradicts the fact that God remains "hidden" (as in it takes faith to believe in him) in order that his followers will truly love him. Also, why would it be wrong to allow people to die? God is the creator and therefore has the decision as to when his creation shall die. If it is necessary that the person shall live then God will protect that person from harm.

So why does god not simply absolve everyone of original sin? Can he not do that?

We can be absolved from original sin through baptism. The sacrifice of Jesus and Jesus defeating sin opened up the gates of Heaven, which essentially means original sin was defeated. However, God made it necessary that we first be baptized in order to be absolved from original sin.

And who created original sin in the first place? Was it Adam and Eve, or was it god when he put the tree of knowledge right in front of them? And isn't he all knowing? Then he would know what was going to happen, wouldn't he?

Original sin wasn't "created," rather the possibility was always there. Humanity brought that possibility enter reality through the first sin. God knew that humanity would fall. Yet love is so powerful that even evil cannot take reign over it.

The only way to say he is loving is to remove something. Make him a mortal like us who makes mistakes and cannot fix all ills.

Why? God made himself mortal. Jesus was exposed to the same temptations, fears, and sufferings we all are.

I believe that I am loving. If I could cure cancer, I would. Cancer still exists and is not fully cured, not because I am unloving, but because I have not the power to get rid of cancer. God has that power.

Refer back to original sin and why God doesn't have to save someone from death.
Nolite Timere
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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3/6/2014 6:18:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 6:13:11 PM, biomystic wrote:
At 3/6/2014 6:05:39 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/6/2014 7:43:50 AM, tcpanter wrote:
If god was love, he wouldn't give people diseases and sh*tty lives. I understand that sometimes a parent might allow a child to make mistakes, in order to teach them not to in the future. To make them stronger. How will a child dying of hunger make anyone stronger? How do diseases and earthquakes make you stronger?

That is not the fault of God. That is the fault of humanity and original sin.

Really because there is a mountain of serious scientific knowledge that indicates that Earthquakes are the result of tectonic activity. Also it seems that more religious countries are more prone to Earthquakes tornados and volcanoes which flies completely in the face of your ridiculous comment.

The idea is that God originally to make a perfect world, but in order to do that he needed perfection from human beings. Humans sinned not allowing God to fulfill his plan of a perfect creation. This is why after the final judgement God will make a new Heaven on Earth in order to fulfill what he originally set out to do.

Lunacy. Why would a god make a world where he expected perfection and yet create imperfect beings

Oh no, don't be mistaken. Humans posses the ability to become perfect beings and also posses the capacity to be imperfect: this ability to choose, or free will is what truly makes us perfect creations.

You see, only through free will can we truly love, and true love is more powerful than even the greatest evil.

and then be shallow and stupid enough to lay blame on his own creations when they screw up?

It was humanity's screw up, not God's.

Are you nuts? Why believe this irrational garbage

Let's have a respectful discussion :)

What kind of god are you worshiping there? Do you know?

I am worshiping the God whom alone can fulfill all my desires. The God who is benevolent, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and every other trait that could possibly be given to a truly great God.
Nolite Timere
biomystic
Posts: 606
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3/6/2014 6:30:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Empty words. You don't know much of anything about spiritual consciousness and rely as most do on borrowing other people's ideas about God. For instance, you like so many shallow believers never really stop to think seriously about the beliefs you adopt without reservation. Such as "free will". There is no, repeat no, free will if God is omniscient and omnipotent. It's logically impossible to have an omniscient god who can't know the future. Or worse, pretends not to know. Free will is a man-made doctrine.

As if the Fall of Man which negates Genesis I and casts God as liar. Why? Because in Genesis I God tells us humanity is made in the image of God, made male and female, and made "good, very good indeed". When shallow believers told that they must think man is fallen from the Garden tell us we are fallen creatures this is blasphemy! It is exactly like saying God is a fallen creature if we are fallen creatures made in the image of God. It's Bad Man-Made Doctrine and needs to be composted.
gray28
Posts: 16
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3/7/2014 7:40:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The "God is love" idea is fairly recent. The "God is a hateful sack of crap we must obey" predates it and is better arguable.
gray28
Posts: 16
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3/7/2014 7:47:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The "God is love" idea is fairly recent. The "God is a hateful sack of crap we must obey"idea predates it and is better arguable.
biomystic
Posts: 606
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3/7/2014 9:25:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 7:47:49 PM, gray28 wrote:
The "God is love" idea is fairly recent. The "God is a hateful sack of crap we must obey"idea predates it and is better arguable.

Wrong god was promoted by priests of Judah and Pauline Christians went for him instead of God Most High. Most people have no idea Yahweh was once a son of EL and not the Most High God. There's a Canaanite cuniform text showing where EL renames Yamm, Yah or Yahwe. Yamm actually is the original Yahweh as Yamm's battle with Baal was continued under Yahweh, both Yamm and Baal contenders for EL's throne as the Most High, and Yahweh actually pulling off the Lucifer usurpation of EL's throne in the Sinai Covenant that subsumed EL into Yahweh to create the very schizoid YHWH man-made god of the Jews.

Yahweh was always a war god and it is those war gods who demand absolute obedience to commands or look out! The Fraud of Israel is a man-made god and that's why appeals to YHWH are virtually worthless. Look to who Jesus turned to when He cried out from the cross. It was not Yahweh but EL. "My EL, MY EL, why hast Thou forsaken Me? Jesus Christ paid the price for Yahweh's Lucifer stunt. Saturn (EL in Canaanite language) was known for eating His children who tried to seize his power. Something to think about..
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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3/7/2014 9:43:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 6:14:02 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/6/2014 7:45:09 AM, Lordgrae wrote:
That is not the fault of God. That is the fault of humanity and original sin.

Why does god have original sin?

God gave us free will. Original sin wasn't a creation by God, rather it had an inherent existence through free will.

It seems fairly moronic and unloving to punish, or allow punishment to befall a group for the actions of their incestuous ancestors.

That's not exactly how original sin works. Sin itself, specifically the first sin halted God's plan for perfection all together, which is the cause of all natural evils in this world. For example, natural disaster, disease, weak will power, ect. To to the affects of sin, humans were further weakened and continued to sin.

Wait a minute. So god won't interfere with free will, so he allows sin to continue. What does disease have to do with free will? Or earthquakes. I me and a 'moral' person live next to each other, and an earthquake strikes, then his house is just as screwed as mine, unless the ground he built on just happened to be better or worse. (It's not really free will unless he was told that it was better or worse for earthquakes. If you have no knowledge, it isn't a real choice and isn't free will)

How would removing these things affect free will, and how do they have any connection to sin? I understand weak will power, greed, envy. These make sense to the argument that you are making. How does disease fit in. Why can god not fix these problems and not interfere with free will? And is it just that someone sins and new viruses are born? Or does god just get pissy and create them. Why are these things connected to free will or sin?

I have a question. Let's say I have the power to move small groups of people from their present location to another location safely. This takes little to no effort on my part. All I have to do it look at them, and think about where I want to move them, and *poof*. Now let's say I'm going for a nice stroll in the woods of Pennsylvania, when I come across traintracks. There are 7 people working on the tracks, but suddenly a train comes. I do not have time to warn them, and they cannot see it themselves. I can however, translocate them about five feet over to a safe place next to the tracks. I did not create the situation (I think god did create the situation, but whatever), but it would be wrong and unloving of me to not to help them, when it takes so little effort on my part.

God doesn't not necessarily interfere with the actions of others, for that would degrade our free will. In addition, divine intervention contradicts the fact that God remains "hidden" (as in it takes faith to believe in him) in order that his followers will truly love him. Also, why would it be wrong to allow people to die? God is the creator and therefore has the decision as to when his creation shall die. If it is necessary that the person shall live then God will protect that person from harm.

So god's best quality in people is blind faith? Isn't that just another word for a lack of intellectual curiosity, ignorance or subjectivity to the beliefs of your parents? What quality do people of faith display that is truly good for god?

And not only does he think that blind faith is good, he only wants certain people with blind faith. Sorry little Arjun from India, your blind faith in Krishna wasn't good enough. Sorry little Max. You prayed to Adonai all your life, but you will still go to hell. Sorry little Abdul, but your blind faith in Allah just wasn't the right blind faith. But congratulations to little Timmy. You were born in a Western nation to a Christian family and never questioned what your parents told you! Go to heaven!

It is pretty hard to love someone that either causes bad things to befall us randomly (as in, not losing a 90 year old grandma who had been sick for a while, but losing a 40 year old mother to cancer suddenly), or have the power to stop these things and not do so.

I understand that it is hard to not pretend to love someone who is all powerful. Sucking up is an unfortunate trait of the human race. However, god has two things going for him.

1. He could make people want to love him by doing good things for us. I mean, why should I love someone who I am not sure exists and does terrible things? (or allows them to happen). However, if these two things were fixed, if god were obviously evident AND he also did good things, then I might think about worshiping him.

2. He is all knowing supposedly. He knows if someone is just sucking up because he is the 'big man in the sky' or really loves him.

Revealing himself, and fixing all the non-free will problems in this world really don't seem to be a problem.

So why does god not simply absolve everyone of original sin? Can he not do that?

We can be absolved from original sin through baptism. The sacrifice of Jesus and Jesus defeating sin opened up the gates of Heaven, which essentially means original sin was defeated. However, God made it necessary that we first be baptized in order to be absolved from original sin.

So people born in nations that aren't Christian, because they also blindly believed what their parents told them, but their parents happened to have a different faith, cannot be absolved of sin? Seems like an arbitrary ritual to me.

And who created original sin in the first place? Was it Adam and Eve, or was it god when he put the tree of knowledge right in front of them? And isn't he all knowing? Then he would know what was going to happen, wouldn't he?

Original sin wasn't "created," rather the possibility was always there. Humanity brought that possibility enter reality through the first sin. God knew that humanity would fall. Yet love is so powerful that even evil cannot take reign over it.

The only way to say he is loving is to remove something. Make him a mortal like us who makes mistakes and cannot fix all ills.

Why? God made himself mortal. Jesus was exposed to the same temptations, fears, and sufferings we all are.

And he walked away from it, and didn't see the problems of his time? I mean, I suppose that his supposed time and place would have caused him, or the people who made him up, to see more man-made problems. The Roman empire had a steady supply of grain, and that area was not rife with geological problems, and at that time people still thought that disease was from demonic possession. (comes from earlier beliefs. Most likely egyptian).

I believe that I am loving. If I could cure cancer, I would. Cancer still exists and is not fully cured, not because I am unloving, but because I have not the power to get rid of cancer. God has that power.

Refer back to original sin and why God doesn't have to save someone from death.

Look. I'm not asking god to be absolute. I'm not asking him to solve all of humanities problems. I'm not even asking him to solve any of the ones that we create or could solve on our own. But why does god allow evil to happen? Or better yet, why does he allow bad things, like tornadoes, earthquakes typhoons and hurracaines to seem so random? Why does he allow such random evils. Things that aren't cause by people.

I understand that we have choices. I understand that we can do things to hurt others, but who chose to have disease? Who woke up one day and said, I feel like making a disease today?
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
biomystic
Posts: 606
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3/7/2014 9:59:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Creation runs on polar opposites. If you are going to have Life, you must have Death. If you are going to have Beauty you only see it in contrast to ugliness. If you do good you only know it by seeing bad. Miracles would never be such if everything ran smoothly without friction, without violence, without death. But that's not the case with Life. No new life can happen if there is no death. Nothing could evolve if there was no death. Creation is the Crucible by which God transforms Life into Intelligence then into Humanity to eventually evolve into God Itself. Creation is the vehicle for this to happen. It's not meant to be pretty but a real crushing to mash elements together into eventually forming something greater than ever before seen. Love would have no meaning without Hate. We are here to learn how to live in the World To Come and the lessons can be brutal but, hey! That's Life! And it's grand to be Alive!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/7/2014 10:06:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 10:15:31 PM, surrendersacrifice wrote:
God is love; and love is a spirit which is unconditional, pure, selfless, forgiving and sacrificial. It is the inner most desire of our heart, and the only source of our peace and joy. Because love is unconditional it is not affected by conditions that surround us. It therefore, does not discriminate between friends and foes. Furthermore it is the force that propels us to surrender our own interest in order to serve those who hurt and betray us. Love took a human form in Jesus (who is God), who accepted the most painful and shameful death on the cross, so that, we, who betrayed him and hurt him by our sins, may have eternal life. His sacrifice kindles the spirit of love in our heart. This enables us to love one another as he has loved us (John 13:34-35); quietly bear each other"s burdens; die to self in order to bring healing to those who hurt and betray us; forgive without any limit (Matt. 18:22); bind each other"s wounds; stay faithful to our marriage covenant even when there is hurt, betrayal and frustrations; and be a servant to our fellow human beings. Since this love is not affected by what happens around us it is eternal and those who make it their life will have eternal life.

The love of God isn't some human emotion. His love is His creation ( knowledge ). You will understand God's love in the next age when we're all basking in His knowledge rather than the knowledge of this world that causes man to hate each other.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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3/7/2014 10:17:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 9:43:17 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
Wait a minute. So god won't interfere with free will, so he allows sin to continue. What does disease have to do with free will? Or earthquakes. I me and a 'moral' person live next to each other, and an earthquake strikes, then his house is just as screwed as mine, unless the ground he built on just happened to be better or worse. (It's not really free will unless he was told that it was better or worse for earthquakes. If you have no knowledge, it isn't a real choice and isn't free will)

What you are really asking is, "why do natural evils exist?"

It has something to do with how imperfect beings could not inherit a perfect world. The Garden of Eden was the perfect world, but with the first sin they were kicked out of the Garden and into an imperfect world due to being imperfect beings.

Although honestly its not something I fully understand myself. It all ultimately goes back to how original sin halted God's plan for a perfect creation.

So god's best quality in people is blind faith?

Absolutely not. The absolute best quality is to posses perfect love. Also, the faith could hardly be called blind. There is a plethora of logical evidence behind the faith that God granted to humanity. However, he did it perfectly in that to believe it still required faith, but that it was also logical. This was again, so that humans would not obey God like sheep, rather come to God of their own free will because they wanted to.

It is pretty hard to love someone that either causes bad things to befall us randomly (as in, not losing a 90 year old grandma who had been sick for a while, but losing a 40 year old mother to cancer suddenly), or have the power to stop these things and not do so.

God will protect, guide, love, give everything to anyone who calls on him. It is only sin that separates us and it is sin that continually causes evil to fall upon us.

Sometimes certain disasters, deaths, ect. become necessary because of original sin.

The problem is that you are indirectly placing the blame on God, when all evil fallen upon humanity has been due to humanity's faults.

I understand that it is hard to not pretend to love someone who is all powerful. Sucking up is an unfortunate trait of the human race. However, god has two things going for him.

1. He could make people want to love him by doing good things for us.

He has done this more than you could ever imagine. If only we had full knowledge and a full realization of what God has done for us and how much God loves us. Sadly his love is so great it is outside human capacity to understand.

if god were obviously evident

Christianity is possibly the most logic based religion out there. The main problem that people have against Christianity is that they don't understand it, and they are ignorant to the logic behind it.

I personally find the prophecies to be pretty crazy. Psalms, a book written thousands of years before the life of Jesus, predicts in detail the suffering Jesus would go through. For example, it mentions him being crucified, a lance piercing his side, and the casting of lots over his clothing. Same with the book of Isaiah.

You should try the Athiest's Prayer. Its simple and you really have nothing to lose. Simply pray to God that if he really exists please reveal himself to you and guide you to the truth of God.

AND he also did good things, then I might think about worshiping him.

The most loving thing God ever did was sacrifice himself for the faults of humanity.

2. He is all knowing supposedly. He knows if someone is just sucking up because he is the 'big man in the sky' or really loves him.

Mhm.

Revealing himself, and fixing all the non-free will problems in this world really don't seem to be a problem.

Well people will certainly be more inclined to come to him out of a true desire for him through faith as opposed to him revealing himself.

So why does god not simply absolve everyone of original sin? Can he not do that?

Well the reason we are absolved through baptism is a free will thing again. Its basically like, "Hey God I love you so I'm going to come to you of my own free will in order to be absolved from sin so I may enter heaven."

God is all about free will, which would be because true love can only come through free will.

So people born in nations that aren't Christian, because they also blindly believed what their parents told them, but their parents happened to have a different faith, cannot be absolved of sin?

Oh they can be absolved from sin simply if they get baptized, just like you, and every other person in the world.

And he walked away from it, and didn't see the problems of his time?

Jesus layed out the final teachings in order to finally make God's love truly perfect. If that is not fixing problems I do not know what is. Due to free will we must come to obey God's law ourselves. God's law though, is perfect.

But why does god allow evil to happen?

Free will. If God took away free will then evil couldn't happen, but true love could not exist either. True love is so powerful that it triumphs over evil.

I understand that we have choices. I understand that we can do things to hurt others, but who chose to have disease? Who woke up one day and said, I feel like making a disease today?

Of course not. it once again applies to imperfect beings living in an imperfect world. After all in a perfect world this whole "food chain" business certainly wouldn't exist. We would never hunger or thirst. We would live for eternity.
Nolite Timere
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,079
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3/7/2014 10:24:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/5/2014 10:57:49 PM, bulproof wrote:
What an indoctrinated crock

You misspelled crotch.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,079
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3/7/2014 10:26:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 9:43:17 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 3/6/2014 6:14:02 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 3/6/2014 7:45:09 AM, Lordgrae wrote:
That is not the fault of God. That is the fault of humanity and original sin.

Why does god have original sin?

God gave us free will. Original sin wasn't a creation by God, rather it had an inherent existence through free will.

It seems fairly moronic and unloving to punish, or allow punishment to befall a group for the actions of their incestuous ancestors.

That's not exactly how original sin works. Sin itself, specifically the first sin halted God's plan for perfection all together, which is the cause of all natural evils in this world. For example, natural disaster, disease, weak will power, ect. To to the affects of sin, humans were further weakened and continued to sin.

Wait a minute. So god won't interfere with free will, so he allows sin to continue. What does disease have to do with free will? Or earthquakes. I me and a 'moral' person live next to each other, and an earthquake strikes, then his house is just as screwed as mine, unless the ground he built on just happened to be better or worse. (It's not really free will unless he was told that it was better or worse for earthquakes. If you have no knowledge, it isn't a real choice and isn't free will)


There's a difference between moral evils and natural evils. Typically Christians hold that God allows moral evils to exist because of free will, and allows natural evils to exist since he can create something good out of it. Or just because nature is nature...

How would removing these things affect free will, and how do they have any connection to sin? I understand weak will power, greed, envy. These make sense to the argument that you are making. How does disease fit in. Why can god not fix these problems and not interfere with free will? And is it just that someone sins and new viruses are born? Or does god just get pissy and create them. Why are these things connected to free will or sin?

I have a question. Let's say I have the power to move small groups of people from their present location to another location safely. This takes little to no effort on my part. All I have to do it look at them, and think about where I want to move them, and *poof*. Now let's say I'm going for a nice stroll in the woods of Pennsylvania, when I come across traintracks. There are 7 people working on the tracks, but suddenly a train comes. I do not have time to warn them, and they cannot see it themselves. I can however, translocate them about five feet over to a safe place next to the tracks. I did not create the situation (I think god did create the situation, but whatever), but it would be wrong and unloving of me to not to help them, when it takes so little effort on my part.

God doesn't not necessarily interfere with the actions of others, for that would degrade our free will. In addition, divine intervention contradicts the fact that God remains "hidden" (as in it takes faith to believe in him) in order that his followers will truly love him. Also, why would it be wrong to allow people to die? God is the creator and therefore has the decision as to when his creation shall die. If it is necessary that the person shall live then God will protect that person from harm.

So god's best quality in people is blind faith? Isn't that just another word for a lack of intellectual curiosity, ignorance or subjectivity to the beliefs of your parents? What quality do people of faith display that is truly good for god?

And not only does he think that blind faith is good, he only wants certain people with blind faith. Sorry little Arjun from India, your blind faith in Krishna wasn't good enough. Sorry little Max. You prayed to Adonai all your life, but you will still go to hell. Sorry little Abdul, but your blind faith in Allah just wasn't the right blind faith. But congratulations to little Timmy. You were born in a Western nation to a Christian family and never questioned what your parents told you! Go to heaven!

It is pretty hard to love someone that either causes bad things to befall us randomly (as in, not losing a 90 year old grandma who had been sick for a while, but losing a 40 year old mother to cancer suddenly), or have the power to stop these things and not do so.

I understand that it is hard to not pretend to love someone who is all powerful. Sucking up is an unfortunate trait of the human race. However, god has two things going for him.

1. He could make people want to love him by doing good things for us. I mean, why should I love someone who I am not sure exists and does terrible things? (or allows them to happen). However, if these two things were fixed, if god were obviously evident AND he also did good things, then I might think about worshiping him.

2. He is all knowing supposedly. He knows if someone is just sucking up because he is the 'big man in the sky' or really loves him.

Revealing himself, and fixing all the non-free will problems in this world really don't seem to be a problem.

So why does god not simply absolve everyone of original sin? Can he not do that?

We can be absolved from original sin through baptism. The sacrifice of Jesus and Jesus defeating sin opened up the gates of Heaven, which essentially means original sin was defeated. However, God made it necessary that we first be baptized in order to be absolved from original sin.

So people born in nations that aren't Christian, because they also blindly believed what their parents told them, but their parents happened to have a different faith, cannot be absolved of sin? Seems like an arbitrary ritual to me.

And who created original sin in the first place? Was it Adam and Eve, or was it god when he put the tree of knowledge right in front of them? And isn't he all knowing? Then he would know what was going to happen, wouldn't he?

Original sin wasn't "created," rather the possibility was always there. Humanity brought that possibility enter reality through the first sin. God knew that humanity would fall. Yet love is so powerful that even evil cannot take reign over it.

The only way to say he is loving is to remove something. Make him a mortal like us who makes mistakes and cannot fix all ills.

Why? God made himself mortal. Jesus was exposed to the same temptations, fears, and sufferings we all are.

And he walked away from it, and didn't see the problems of his time? I mean, I suppose that his supposed time and place would have caused him, or the people who made him up, to see more man-made problems. The Roman empire had a steady supply of grain, and that area was not rife with geological problems, and at that time people still thought that disease was from demonic possession. (comes from earlier beliefs. Most likely egyptian).

I believe that I am loving. If I could cure cancer, I would. Cancer still exists and is not fully cured, not because I am unloving, but because I have not the power to get rid of cancer. God has that power.

Refer back to original sin and why God doesn't have to save someone from death.

Look. I'm not asking god to be absolute. I'm not asking him to solve all of humanities problems. I'm not even asking him to solve any of the ones that we create or could solve on our own. But why does god allow evil to happen? Or better yet, why does he allow bad things, like tornadoes, earthquakes typhoons and hurracaines to seem so random? Why does he allow such random evils. Things that aren't cause by people.

I understand that we have choices. I understand that we can do things to hurt others, but who chose to have disease? Who woke up one day and said, I feel like making a disease today?
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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3/7/2014 10:52:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/6/2014 7:02:03 AM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 3/5/2014 10:15:31 PM, surrendersacrifice wrote:
God is love; and love is a spirit which is unconditional, pure, selfless, forgiving and sacrificial. It is the inner most desire of our heart, and the only source of our peace and joy. Because love is unconditional it is not affected by conditions that surround us. It therefore, does not discriminate between friends and foes. Furthermore it is the force that propels us to surrender our own interest in order to serve those who hurt and betray us. Love took a human form in Jesus (who is God), who accepted the most painful and shameful death on the cross, so that, we, who betrayed him and hurt him by our sins, may have eternal life. His sacrifice kindles the spirit of love in our heart. This enables us to love one another as he has loved us (John 13:34-35); quietly bear each other"s burdens; die to self in order to bring healing to those who hurt and betray us; forgive without any limit (Matt. 18:22); bind each other"s wounds; stay faithful to our marriage covenant even when there is hurt, betrayal and frustrations; and be a servant to our fellow human beings. Since this love is not affected by what happens around us it is eternal and those who make it their life will have eternal life.

If god was love, he wouldn't give people diseases and sh*tty lives. I understand that sometimes a parent might allow a child to make mistakes, in order to teach them not to in the future. To make them stronger. How will a child dying of hunger make anyone stronger? How do diseases and earthquakes make you stronger?

This is probably one of the best "God" questions there ever was, and I've asked it so many times to so many people I've lost count of them all. But it has begun to occur to me that at some point we have to take responsibility for our own world. There is more than enough food to feed everyone, yet we throw away millions of tons every day. Disease is necessary both for evolution and for population control. I won't even go into what implications it might have for free will. Simply put, I've begun to think of it in a whole new way. If we are truly living a temporal life (which would be less than a drop in the ocean compared to an eternal life) then the physical life we live on Earth is a very small lesson for us to learn. I admit, it's very hard to conceptualize an Abrahamic type God. In fact, I pretty much find it impossible. But there are strong theories which postulate that religion is necessary in order for a truly sentient species to emerge and survive, and we are the only such species known to have ever existed anywhere. It leads a person to think.
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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3/7/2014 11:08:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 10:52:03 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 3/6/2014 7:02:03 AM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 3/5/2014 10:15:31 PM, surrendersacrifice wrote:
God is love; and love is a spirit which is unconditional, pure, selfless, forgiving and sacrificial. It is the inner most desire of our heart, and the only source of our peace and joy. Because love is unconditional it is not affected by conditions that surround us. It therefore, does not discriminate between friends and foes. Furthermore it is the force that propels us to surrender our own interest in order to serve those who hurt and betray us. Love took a human form in Jesus (who is God), who accepted the most painful and shameful death on the cross, so that, we, who betrayed him and hurt him by our sins, may have eternal life. His sacrifice kindles the spirit of love in our heart. This enables us to love one another as he has loved us (John 13:34-35); quietly bear each other"s burdens; die to self in order to bring healing to those who hurt and betray us; forgive without any limit (Matt. 18:22); bind each other"s wounds; stay faithful to our marriage covenant even when there is hurt, betrayal and frustrations; and be a servant to our fellow human beings. Since this love is not affected by what happens around us it is eternal and those who make it their life will have eternal life.

If god was love, he wouldn't give people diseases and sh*tty lives. I understand that sometimes a parent might allow a child to make mistakes, in order to teach them not to in the future. To make them stronger. How will a child dying of hunger make anyone stronger? How do diseases and earthquakes make you stronger?

This is probably one of the best "God" questions there ever was, and I've asked it so many times to so many people I've lost count of them all. But it has begun to occur to me that at some point we have to take responsibility for our own world. There is more than enough food to feed everyone, yet we throw away millions of tons every day. Disease is necessary both for evolution and for population control. I won't even go into what implications it might have for free will. Simply put, I've begun to think of it in a whole new way. If we are truly living a temporal life (which would be less than a drop in the ocean compared to an eternal life) then the physical life we live on Earth is a very small lesson for us to learn. I admit, it's very hard to conceptualize an Abrahamic type God. In fact, I pretty much find it impossible. But there are strong theories which postulate that religion is necessary in order for a truly sentient species to emerge and survive, and we are the only such species known to have ever existed anywhere. It leads a person to think.

Sure, but there is gratuitous evil nonetheless, and a serious imbalance of evil that is dealed to various people. Life isn't even remotely fair.

Genetic disorders' existence is not the fault of humans, and it is something that cripples some but leaves others alone. This wouldn't be characteristic of an "all-loving God".

And to Crypto... First off, what kind of all-loving god punishes people for the sins of their fathers? That is a ridiculous concept through and through.

And even if there is a justification for punishment for "original sin", why are some people punished more than others in this life? Some are dealt impossibly difficult and painful lives while others are born brilliant and in a stable family and never encounter things like natural disasters.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/7/2014 11:48:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 11:08:25 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 3/7/2014 10:52:03 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 3/6/2014 7:02:03 AM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 3/5/2014 10:15:31 PM, surrendersacrifice wrote:
God is love; and love is a spirit which is unconditional, pure, selfless, forgiving and sacrificial. It is the inner most desire of our heart, and the only source of our peace and joy. Because love is unconditional it is not affected by conditions that surround us. It therefore, does not discriminate between friends and foes. Furthermore it is the force that propels us to surrender our own interest in order to serve those who hurt and betray us. Love took a human form in Jesus (who is God), who accepted the most painful and shameful death on the cross, so that, we, who betrayed him and hurt him by our sins, may have eternal life. His sacrifice kindles the spirit of love in our heart. This enables us to love one another as he has loved us (John 13:34-35); quietly bear each other"s burdens; die to self in order to bring healing to those who hurt and betray us; forgive without any limit (Matt. 18:22); bind each other"s wounds; stay faithful to our marriage covenant even when there is hurt, betrayal and frustrations; and be a servant to our fellow human beings. Since this love is not affected by what happens around us it is eternal and those who make it their life will have eternal life.

If god was love, he wouldn't give people diseases and sh*tty lives. I understand that sometimes a parent might allow a child to make mistakes, in order to teach them not to in the future. To make them stronger. How will a child dying of hunger make anyone stronger? How do diseases and earthquakes make you stronger?

This is probably one of the best "God" questions there ever was, and I've asked it so many times to so many people I've lost count of them all. But it has begun to occur to me that at some point we have to take responsibility for our own world. There is more than enough food to feed everyone, yet we throw away millions of tons every day. Disease is necessary both for evolution and for population control. I won't even go into what implications it might have for free will. Simply put, I've begun to think of it in a whole new way. If we are truly living a temporal life (which would be less than a drop in the ocean compared to an eternal life) then the physical life we live on Earth is a very small lesson for us to learn. I admit, it's very hard to conceptualize an Abrahamic type God. In fact, I pretty much find it impossible. But there are strong theories which postulate that religion is necessary in order for a truly sentient species to emerge and survive, and we are the only such species known to have ever existed anywhere. It leads a person to think.

Sure, but there is gratuitous evil nonetheless, and a serious imbalance of evil that is dealed to various people. Life isn't even remotely fair.

Genetic disorders' existence is not the fault of humans, and it is something that cripples some but leaves others alone. This wouldn't be characteristic of an "all-loving God".

And to Crypto... First off, what kind of all-loving god punishes people for the sins of their fathers? That is a ridiculous concept through and through.

And even if there is a justification for punishment for "original sin", why are some people punished more than others in this life? Some are dealt impossibly difficult and painful lives while others are born brilliant and in a stable family and never encounter things like natural disasters.

It all depends on what tree you eat from. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil ( visible world and it's illusions ) or the tree of life ( the invisible creation of God ).

We didn't have any choice but to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil during this age because God formed His illusions so perfectly that we thought we were real.
Lordgrae
Posts: 666
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3/8/2014 3:33:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 10:17:06 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:

I can see that I cannot make you see this they way that I do. Perhaps it is not possible unless you desire to yourself, or perhaps I myself simply am not good enough to do so. However, there is one point that I want you to question before I stop responding to you on this topic. I am re-posting this because it was not responded to.

And not only does he think that blind faith is good, he only wants certain people with blind faith. Sorry little Arjun from India, your blind faith in Krishna wasn't good enough. Sorry little Max. You prayed to Adonai all your life, but you will still go to hell. Sorry little Abdul, but your blind faith in Allah just wasn't the right blind faith. But congratulations to little Timmy. You were born in a Western nation to a Christian family and never questioned what your parents told you! Go to heaven!

So what is your opinions on regional beliefs? Because let's face it, the odds of someone becoming a Christian who is born in India is about as good as someone becoming a Hindu who was born in Italy. How does your god deal with people sharing the faith that their parents had, and simply being unlucky enough to have parents who aren't Christian, or lucky enough to have parents who are? If faith is the quality god looks for, then why does it seem to apply to so few people who actually have faith?
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved