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Original sin

POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!
Never fart near dog
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/7/2014 8:52:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

The bible also states that Adam was not deceived and implies he was not in the transgression due to not being deceived.
1 Titus 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

What was the transgression anyway?
What exactly was the deception?
Is gaining knowledge a sin?
If so, what exactly is wrong with gaining knowledge?
Do those who believe gaining knowledge is a sin think God wanted humans to remain ignorant and have no knowledge or understanding of good and evil and not become wise?
biomystic
Posts: 606
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3/7/2014 9:45:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Original Sin is a blasphemous concept and not of God at all. Read Genesis I and learn that we are made in the image of God so every time one of these bozos tries to tell you you're born in sin, born a sinner, you tell them to shut up because they are insulting God, trying to say in effect God is a sinner because we made in God's image are sinners. Such rot! Don't buy into this Gentile lunacy foisted upon Christians by Paul and then Augustine. It is not of God's instructions to His children made in His image and made "good, very good, indeed."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/7/2014 9:47:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

All you have to do is listen to our Creator through His written testimonies in here that He had His last saint write. You have all the wrong interpretations in your mind that keeps you from understanding the symbolism in the Adam and Eve story.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/7/2014 9:50:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 8:52:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

The bible also states that Adam was not deceived and implies he was not in the transgression due to not being deceived.
1 Titus 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

What was the transgression anyway?
What exactly was the deception?
Is gaining knowledge a sin?
If so, what exactly is wrong with gaining knowledge?
Do those who believe gaining knowledge is a sin think God wanted humans to remain ignorant and have no knowledge or understanding of good and evil and not become wise?

The transgression is that neither of them were obeying the voice of our Creator and His commandments. They went along their merry way believing in all the illusions that they thought were real in this world. Just like ALL God's people have been doing since then. The only one who obeyed God and His commandments was His invisible servant who was using illusions called prophets and saints to testify through.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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3/7/2014 9:51:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 9:47:29 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

All you have to do is listen to our Creator through His written testimonies in here that He had His last saint write. You have all the wrong interpretations in your mind that keeps you from understanding the symbolism in the Adam and Eve story.

All you have to do is listen to God with your own heart. You don't need the heart or mind of another in order to establish your own relationship. When you begin to believe that a mediator is required, that's when the mediator gains power over you, just as the popes did. Jesus gave us an example of how to pray, and it didn't require the intervention of anyone else.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/7/2014 9:59:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 9:51:07 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 3/7/2014 9:47:29 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

All you have to do is listen to our Creator through His written testimonies in here that He had His last saint write. You have all the wrong interpretations in your mind that keeps you from understanding the symbolism in the Adam and Eve story.

All you have to do is listen to God with your own heart. You don't need the heart or mind of another in order to establish your own relationship. When you begin to believe that a mediator is required, that's when the mediator gains power over you, just as the popes did. Jesus gave us an example of how to pray, and it didn't require the intervention of anyone else.

You have no idea who our Creator is or how He works through His illusions called prophets and saints. You're being very foolish.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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3/7/2014 10:10:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 9:59:21 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/7/2014 9:51:07 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 3/7/2014 9:47:29 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

All you have to do is listen to our Creator through His written testimonies in here that He had His last saint write. You have all the wrong interpretations in your mind that keeps you from understanding the symbolism in the Adam and Eve story.

All you have to do is listen to God with your own heart. You don't need the heart or mind of another in order to establish your own relationship. When you begin to believe that a mediator is required, that's when the mediator gains power over you, just as the popes did. Jesus gave us an example of how to pray, and it didn't require the intervention of anyone else.

You have no idea who our Creator is or how He works through His illusions called prophets and saints. You're being very foolish.

Oh, that's right. Because I've never claimed that God comes and speaks to me directly. Or that I'm the sole voice of God, who is more powerful than the universe, thus making me the most powerful man in existence. I'm content to just be me and I am happy with my own relationships.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/7/2014 10:59:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 10:10:42 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 3/7/2014 9:59:21 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/7/2014 9:51:07 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 3/7/2014 9:47:29 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

All you have to do is listen to our Creator through His written testimonies in here that He had His last saint write. You have all the wrong interpretations in your mind that keeps you from understanding the symbolism in the Adam and Eve story.

All you have to do is listen to God with your own heart. You don't need the heart or mind of another in order to establish your own relationship. When you begin to believe that a mediator is required, that's when the mediator gains power over you, just as the popes did. Jesus gave us an example of how to pray, and it didn't require the intervention of anyone else.

You have no idea who our Creator is or how He works through His illusions called prophets and saints. You're being very foolish.

Oh, that's right. Because I've never claimed that God comes and speaks to me directly. Or that I'm the sole voice of God, who is more powerful than the universe, thus making me the most powerful man in existence. I'm content to just be me and I am happy with my own relationships.

My flesh has no power at all. In fact, it is a powerless illusion that will appear to die with a bullet to it's forehead. It won't hurt me at all because I'll remain alive as the illusion dies.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/8/2014 2:00:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 9:50:10 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/7/2014 8:52:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

The bible also states that Adam was not deceived and implies he was not in the transgression due to not being deceived.
1 Titus 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

What was the transgression anyway?
What exactly was the deception?
Is gaining knowledge a sin?
If so, what exactly is wrong with gaining knowledge?
Do those who believe gaining knowledge is a sin think God wanted humans to remain ignorant and have no knowledge or understanding of good and evil and not become wise?

The transgression is that neither of them were obeying the voice of our Creator and His commandments. They went along their merry way believing in all the illusions that they thought were real in this world. Just like ALL God's people have been doing since then. The only one who obeyed God and His commandments was His invisible servant who was using illusions called prophets and saints to testify through.

Who exactly was this invisible servant and who were the prophets and saints this invisible servant was testifying through when Adam and Eve were supposedly the only people on the planet at the time?
Was the prophet and saint the snake who told Eve the truth?
If God did not want them to eat of the tree why did he not block the way to the tree in the first place?
It seems he decided to block the way to the tree of life so they could not eat of that one in case they lived forever. Gen 3:22-24
So much for any immortal God creating immortal children in his own image then blocking the way to the tree of life to make sure they don't live forever.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/8/2014 2:04:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 9:47:29 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

All you have to do is listen to our Creator through His written testimonies in here that He had His last saint write. You have all the wrong interpretations in your mind that keeps you from understanding the symbolism in the Adam and Eve story.

Please explain the symbolism in the Adam and Eve story. I would like to know what you see in it.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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3/8/2014 2:06:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 10:59:38 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/7/2014 10:10:42 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 3/7/2014 9:59:21 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/7/2014 9:51:07 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 3/7/2014 9:47:29 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

All you have to do is listen to our Creator through His written testimonies in here that He had His last saint write. You have all the wrong interpretations in your mind that keeps you from understanding the symbolism in the Adam and Eve story.

All you have to do is listen to God with your own heart. You don't need the heart or mind of another in order to establish your own relationship. When you begin to believe that a mediator is required, that's when the mediator gains power over you, just as the popes did. Jesus gave us an example of how to pray, and it didn't require the intervention of anyone else.

You have no idea who our Creator is or how He works through His illusions called prophets and saints. You're being very foolish.

Oh, that's right. Because I've never claimed that God comes and speaks to me directly. Or that I'm the sole voice of God, who is more powerful than the universe, thus making me the most powerful man in existence. I'm content to just be me and I am happy with my own relationships.

My flesh has no power at all. In fact, it is a powerless illusion that will appear to die with a bullet to it's forehead. It won't hurt me at all because I'll remain alive as the illusion dies.

Are you planning on shooting yourself through the head?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/8/2014 4:54:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

The bible does not contradict itself at all.

What is original sin?

It certainly is not what many churches claim, in fact scripture gives us the exact order in which sin entered in the world, and exactly what were the first and therefore the original sins.

1) The first sin of all, and therefore the original one, was rebellion against God, committed by Satan.

2) The second one, again committed by Satan, was lying, which is why Jesus later called him "The father of the lie".

3) The third sin, committed more out of ignorance than anything else, probably compounded by the confusion of appearing to be be spoken to by a serpent, was committed by Eve.

4) The fourth sin, committed by Adam, was also a case of rebellion against God, when he attempted to blame God for what Eve did because God had given her to him. He was trying to avoid his inevitable responsibility for teaching and guiding Eve. (1 Corinthians 11:3)

And that is it. Sex inside a stable marriage arrangement has never been a sin, let alone the original one.

Original sin, the original sin is simply rebellion against God, and the vast majority of humanity are all guilty of that, whether they realise it or not.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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3/8/2014 5:30:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 4:54:05 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

The bible does not contradict itself at all.

What is original sin?

It certainly is not what many churches claim, in fact scripture gives us the exact order in which sin entered in the world, and exactly what were the first and therefore the original sins.

1) The first sin of all, and therefore the original one, was rebellion against God, committed by Satan.

2) The second one, again committed by Satan, was lying, which is why Jesus later called him "The father of the lie".

3) The third sin, committed more out of ignorance than anything else, probably compounded by the confusion of appearing to be be spoken to by a serpent, was committed by Eve.

4) The fourth sin, committed by Adam, was also a case of rebellion against God, when he attempted to blame God for what Eve did because God had given her to him. He was trying to avoid his inevitable responsibility for teaching and guiding Eve. (1 Corinthians 11:3)

And that is it. Sex inside a stable marriage arrangement has never been a sin, let alone the original one.

Original sin, the original sin is simply rebellion against God, and the vast majority of humanity are all guilty of that, whether they realise it or not.

How vast majority of humanity are all guily of that if they are not consulted?

The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son
the old testment condtadicts paul's doctrine, and jesus himself condtadicts paul by his teaching... read the following verses of Ezekiel 20 onwards.

Think for a moment... if all christains are free from sin they can do anything... from rape to murder because they are free to do whatever they wish. this makes any sense?
Never fart near dog
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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3/8/2014 5:48:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 4:54:05 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

The bible does not contradict itself at all.

What is original sin?

It certainly is not what many churches claim, in fact scripture gives us the exact order in which sin entered in the world, and exactly what were the first and therefore the original sins.

1) The first sin of all, and therefore the original one, was rebellion against God, committed by Satan.

2) The second one, again committed by Satan, was lying, which is why Jesus later called him "The father of the lie".

3) The third sin, committed more out of ignorance than anything else, probably compounded by the confusion of appearing to be be spoken to by a serpent, was committed by Eve.

4) The fourth sin, committed by Adam, was also a case of rebellion against God, when he attempted to blame God for what Eve did because God had given her to him. He was trying to avoid his inevitable responsibility for teaching and guiding Eve. (1 Corinthians 11:3)

And that is it. Sex inside a stable marriage arrangement has never been a sin, let alone the original one.

Original sin, the original sin is simply rebellion against God, and the vast majority of humanity are all guilty of that, whether they realise it or not.

Didn't you sort-of totally leave out the fact that Adam partook of the forbidden fruit? I'm sure you'll claim you have it in there, somewhere.

"Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin"

Sin simply did not enter into the world through Satan, for Satan was not viewed as being a part of this world. You can philosophize your way around it, but the fact is that sin - and mortality - entered into this world through Adam. We thus experience as humans the consequence(s) of Adam's sin, but not the guilt.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/8/2014 5:56:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 5:30:47 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 3/8/2014 4:54:05 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

The bible does not contradict itself at all.

What is original sin?

It certainly is not what many churches claim, in fact scripture gives us the exact order in which sin entered in the world, and exactly what were the first and therefore the original sins.

1) The first sin of all, and therefore the original one, was rebellion against God, committed by Satan.

2) The second one, again committed by Satan, was lying, which is why Jesus later called him "The father of the lie".

3) The third sin, committed more out of ignorance than anything else, probably compounded by the confusion of appearing to be be spoken to by a serpent, was committed by Eve.

4) The fourth sin, committed by Adam, was also a case of rebellion against God, when he attempted to blame God for what Eve did because God had given her to him. He was trying to avoid his inevitable responsibility for teaching and guiding Eve. (1 Corinthians 11:3)

And that is it. Sex inside a stable marriage arrangement has never been a sin, let alone the original one.

Original sin, the original sin is simply rebellion against God, and the vast majority of humanity are all guilty of that, whether they realise it or not.

How vast majority of humanity are all guily of that if they are not consulted?


As any lawyer in any country will tell you, ignorance is no excuse. The rules are all there, in print, for us to see if we look.

However God is not that cruel, through his son he has arranged a world wide preaching work so that people at least get the chance to learn if they wish.

Next time they knock on your door, listen.

The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son
the old testment condtadicts paul's doctrine, and jesus himself condtadicts paul by his teaching... read the following verses of Ezekiel 20 onwards.

Think for a moment... if all christains are free from sin they can do anything... from rape to murder because they are free to do whatever they wish. this makes any sense?

That is not a contradiction if you read the surrounding verses.

That law, and the one saying that sons will bear the sins of their fathers, both describe completely different circumstances.

Consider a human circumstance.

If a human father breaks the law by drinking and driving and his child is injured in the accident, are they not carrying the "punishment" of their father? Are they not suffering for what their father did over which they had no control.

Of course they are, and such as it is at them moment, life is like that.

There are some sins for which the sons will not bear guilt, but some for which they will.

After all, we all bear the "marks" of the sin of our forefather Adam. All are suffering and dying because of that one act of rebellion.

Even if the father's living children do not bear the consequences of the father's sin, what about all the children that father could have given the chance of life to?

All of these things God takes into account when he "sentences" anyone.

Only those who are prepared to live in a way which also takes all these factors, as well as the good of their fellow man and the rest of creation, into account will be allowed to survive the final test.
POPOO5560
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3/8/2014 6:10:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 5:56:17 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

You philosophizing anything to justify original sin. you are not consulted before adam eatting why you should punish for that? if you justifing it lets do the same thing in courts... you raping somebody and they arresting your innocent son because you are so lovely one.

reading such stuff will change your mentality and understanding the world around us... sorry but you are on the worng way. you are what you read and you are what you eat.
Never fart near dog
MadCornishBiker
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3/8/2014 6:31:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 5:48:55 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 3/8/2014 4:54:05 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

The bible does not contradict itself at all.

What is original sin?

It certainly is not what many churches claim, in fact scripture gives us the exact order in which sin entered in the world, and exactly what were the first and therefore the original sins.

1) The first sin of all, and therefore the original one, was rebellion against God, committed by Satan.

2) The second one, again committed by Satan, was lying, which is why Jesus later called him "The father of the lie".

3) The third sin, committed more out of ignorance than anything else, probably compounded by the confusion of appearing to be be spoken to by a serpent, was committed by Eve.

4) The fourth sin, committed by Adam, was also a case of rebellion against God, when he attempted to blame God for what Eve did because God had given her to him. He was trying to avoid his inevitable responsibility for teaching and guiding Eve. (1 Corinthians 11:3)

And that is it. Sex inside a stable marriage arrangement has never been a sin, let alone the original one.

Original sin, the original sin is simply rebellion against God, and the vast majority of humanity are all guilty of that, whether they realise it or not.

Didn't you sort-of totally leave out the fact that Adam partook of the forbidden fruit? I'm sure you'll claim you have it in there, somewhere.

No, you are right, I should have included it, but I overlooked it concentrating too much on the more serious deliberate rebellion. It should have gone in at #4, moving #4 to #5.

Thank you for the correction.


"Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin"

Sin simply did not enter into the world through Satan, for Satan was not viewed as being a part of this world. You can philosophize your way around it, but the fact is that sin - and mortality - entered into this world through Adam. We thus experience as humans the consequence(s) of Adam's sin, but not the guilt.

That also is true, it did not enter into the world through Satan, because Adam could have taken the sensible option, turning to God and saying something like "Um, we have a problem where, what now?" Had he shown as much faith as Abraham did he would have known that God's promises are going to be fulfilled, even if we don't understand how. If he had done that, sin would have stopped with Satan, and we would not be living in a world where people suffer and die as they do.

Of course that also means that we would not have existed, but frankly I would rather that than see others suffer starvation and death let alone all the other sufferings that Adam foisted on us

God has a plan and a purpose. Had Adam trusted him, the problem of the "forbidden fruit", a continuing problem even ow, could have been sorted, even if it meant removing Eve and supplying another wife for Adam. Something could have, and would have been done.

Unfortunately Adam suffered precisely the same lack of faith that you suffer from. You don't. trust God or Christ to keep their promises, hence you sample the "forbidden fruit" of Apostate teachings:

Isaiah 52:
11 Turn away, turn away, get out of there, touch nothing unclean!
Get out from the midst of her, keep yourselves clean,
You who are carrying the utensils of Jehovah.

Ezekiel 44:23
23 ""They should instruct my people about the difference between what is holy and what is common; and they will teach them the difference between what is unclean and what is clean.

2 Corinthians 6:17
17 ""Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves," says Jehovah, "and quit touching the unclean thing""; ""and I will take you in.""

Revelation 18:4
4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: "Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.

There is nothing more unclean than the writings of Apostates. God's people have to keep themselves clean by not delving into such things. As you can see the command is repeated in Revelation and 1 Corinthians, as is the penalty for ingoing such commands, as you repeatedly do.

Hence I say again, how can you claim to be Christian if you do not obey the commands laid upon those who wish to avoid Christ saying "I never knew you, get away from me you workers of Lawlessness" (Matthew 7:21-23), which is the fate currently awaiting you unless you change your ways.

Leviticus 5:2
2 ""Or when a person* touches anything unclean, whether the dead body of an unclean wild animal, an unclean domestic animal, or an unclean swarming creature,+ he is unclean and has become guilty even if he does not realize it.

Again, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

If you had the faith of Abraham you would not doubt any of God's published promises, because you would realise that he really does have both the power and the will to carry them out.

Instead of which you teach a watered down copy of God who has little concern for the suffering of his creation, from humans to plants, even the planet itself.

You do not teach a God of love, you teach a god of almost complete indifference. Maybe, like so many today, you don't really know what loving someone entails. Try reading Paul's description of the love which never fails.
MadCornishBiker
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3/8/2014 6:34:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 6:10:09 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 3/8/2014 5:56:17 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

You philosophizing anything to justify original sin. you are not consulted before adam eatting why you should punish for that? if you justifing it lets do the same thing in courts... you raping somebody and they arresting your innocent son because you are so lovely one.

reading such stuff will change your mentality and understanding the world around us... sorry but you are on the wrong way. you are what you read and you are what you eat.

Why should a child suffer injury, or even death, for the sin of it's father selfishly drinking before getting behind the wheel of a car?

Actions have consequences, simple as that.

However, as I said, God is mindful of the injustice humans are forced to suffer at this time, and he has planned a resurrection of the dead to give them the opportunity of getting out from under that condemnation, and back to the eternal life which Adam threw away.
Composer
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3/8/2014 6:38:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 5:56:17 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
After all, we all bear the "marks" of the sin of our forefather Adam.
Using that ideology that must thus include Story book jebus the ' sinner by birth ' inheritance!
Composer
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3/8/2014 6:44:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 2:00:42 AM, Skyangel wrote:
It seems he decided to block the way to the tree of life so they could not eat of that one in case they lived forever. Gen 3:22-24
The Story book facts that A & Eve required the Tree of Life to make them IMmortal unambiguously proves Story book god a LIAR! that man brought death upon himself!

i.e. That man was dependent on the Tree of Life to become IMmortal proves man was innately created MORTAL & innately subject to Death and thus they DID NOT bring Death upon themselves!

The Serpent told the Truth, Story book god is the LIAR!
MadCornishBiker
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3/8/2014 7:28:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 6:38:25 AM, Composer wrote:
At 3/8/2014 5:56:17 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
After all, we all bear the "marks" of the sin of our forefather Adam.
Using that ideology that must thus include Story book jebus the ' sinner by birth ' inheritance!

Not true because he was a special creation, as he had top be, hence he was not conceived by any human or imperfection, sin, would have been passed on to him.

It was nothing for God to alter an egg in Mary's womb to suit his purposes, altering an already conceived foetus, whilst not that difficult would in effect have been murder killing off the original and replacing. God counts life as beginning at conception and removal of that life to be murder. He is not going to commit the murder though it would have been "born in sin" would not have had chance to commit one.

That is why the birth of Christ had to be a virgin birth.

It is another thing for that human, at the age where he could make his own decisions, to offer up his life, to have it replaced by the life and memories of God's son, as happened at his willing baptism and subsequent anointing with holy spirit.

No doubt for his willing sacrifice of his life the original personality of Jesus will get it's own resurrection along with others who have died faithful, and will be brought back to honour on this earth.

That is why it was only possible for God's son to "become flesh" after the willing decision of the original personality of Jesus.

God definitely does work in wonderful, and highly moral ways, which few are even able to contemplate. Without God's help I certainly could never have done so.
biomystic
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3/8/2014 8:48:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Jesus H. Christ, madcornish. Did I not tell you to stop your crapola and go out and help someone in need instead of compulsively posting your ego trips here when you are blatantly ignorant of our Jewish Scriptures and pretend to knowledge of them you haven't a clue about? E.g. "Original Sin"?

Did you ever read your Bible about Adam and Eve? Did you ever read this farooking LIE that phony YHWH creature told his puppets, Adam and Eve?

Genesis 2: 16,17:
"And the Lord God*commanded the man, saying, 'Of every tree in the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not, FOR IN THE DAY that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Genesis 5:5:
"So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years (that's 930 years, folks!) and neither he or Eve died in The Day that they ate of the fruit of the Tree. Eve was so unimportant after being blamed for all man's sin, the Bible doesn't record her death. She may still be alive today for all we know if Adam could live almost a thousand years..

Well, us Gnostics saw the Genesis Two false god's lies 2000 years ago and you fundies never have, being blind faith spiritually sightless judgment crazed Gentile usurpers--just like you project onto Lucifer and Satan, your own stealing of Jewish religion to remake into Gentile pablum puke, like the man-made Original Sin idea that is Blasphemy against God who created man and woman in God's image.

I told you to stop spreading Bible lies and you don't listen at all because your brain's filled with madcornishbiker EGO that wants oh so desperately to play Guru when you aren't qualified. Your out of line, get it? Out of our Jewish Lineage and do not know what you are talking about. Please just shut up for a few days and go help someone.

* The real God Most High, EL Elyon, as in Genesis I, was never called "Lord" in ancient Canaan. "Lord" was title for lower gods, not God Most High who served Him as Lords, exactly like feudal society where Lords served the King and the King was not called "Lord" but Your Majesty, Your Highness, King.
MadCornishBiker
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3/8/2014 9:13:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 8:48:15 AM, biomystic wrote:
Jesus H. Christ, madcornish. Did I not tell you to stop your crapola and go out and help someone in need instead of compulsively posting your ego trips here when you are blatantly ignorant of our Jewish Scriptures and pretend to knowledge of them you haven't a clue about? E.g. "Original Sin"?

Did you ever read your Bible about Adam and Eve? Did you ever read this farooking LIE that phony YHWH creature told his puppets, Adam and Eve?

Genesis 2: 16,17:
"And the Lord God*commanded the man, saying, 'Of every tree in the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not, FOR IN THE DAY that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Genesis 5:5:
"So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years (that's 930 years, folks!) and neither he or Eve died in The Day that they ate of the fruit of the Tree. Eve was so unimportant after being blamed for all man's sin, the Bible doesn't record her death. She may still be alive today for all we know if Adam could live almost a thousand years..

Well, us Gnostics saw the Genesis Two false god's lies 2000 years ago and you fundies never have, being blind faith spiritually sightless judgment crazed Gentile usurpers--just like you project onto Lucifer and Satan, your own stealing of Jewish religion to remake into Gentile pablum puke, like the man-made Original Sin idea that is Blasphemy against God who created man and woman in God's image.

I told you to stop spreading Bible lies and you don't listen at all because your brain's filled with madcornishbiker EGO that wants oh so desperately to play Guru when you aren't qualified. Your out of line, get it? Out of our Jewish Lineage and do not know what you are talking about. Please just shut up for a few days and go help someone.

* The real God Most High, EL Elyon, as in Genesis I, was never called "Lord" in ancient Canaan. "Lord" was title for lower gods, not God Most High who served Him as Lords, exactly like feudal society where Lords served the King and the King was not called "Lord" but Your Majesty, Your Highness, King.

Yes you did tell me, but so what. You cannot stop me posting truth any more than I can stop you misleading people.

Did I say he was ever called that? in fact he was at times, though mainly he was addressed by his name, for which the English translation is Jehovah.
biomystic
Posts: 606
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3/8/2014 9:23:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 9:13:19 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/8/2014 8:48:15 AM, biomystic wrote:
Jesus H. Christ, madcornish. Did I not tell you to stop your crapola and go out and help someone in need instead of compulsively posting your ego trips here when you are blatantly ignorant of our Jewish Scriptures and pretend to knowledge of them you haven't a clue about? E.g. "Original Sin"?

Did you ever read your Bible about Adam and Eve? Did you ever read this farooking LIE that phony YHWH creature told his puppets, Adam and Eve?

Genesis 2: 16,17:
"And the Lord God*commanded the man, saying, 'Of every tree in the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not, FOR IN THE DAY that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Genesis 5:5:
"So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years (that's 930 years, folks!) and neither he or Eve died in The Day that they ate of the fruit of the Tree. Eve was so unimportant after being blamed for all man's sin, the Bible doesn't record her death. She may still be alive today for all we know if Adam could live almost a thousand years..

Well, us Gnostics saw the Genesis Two false god's lies 2000 years ago and you fundies never have, being blind faith spiritually sightless judgment crazed Gentile usurpers--just like you project onto Lucifer and Satan, your own stealing of Jewish religion to remake into Gentile pablum puke, like the man-made Original Sin idea that is Blasphemy against God who created man and woman in God's image.

I told you to stop spreading Bible lies and you don't listen at all because your brain's filled with madcornishbiker EGO that wants oh so desperately to play Guru when you aren't qualified. Your out of line, get it? Out of our Jewish Lineage and do not know what you are talking about. Please just shut up for a few days and go help someone.

* The real God Most High, EL Elyon, as in Genesis I, was never called "Lord" in ancient Canaan. "Lord" was title for lower gods, not God Most High who served Him as Lords, exactly like feudal society where Lords served the King and the King was not called "Lord" but Your Majesty, Your Highness, King.

Yes you did tell me, but so what. You cannot stop me posting truth any more than I can stop you misleading people.

Bio: But I can and will tell you as a man of God to stop posting your ego trips OCD-wise every day while there's real work to do for Christ conscious people who don't waste their time ego-tripping trying to outdo other time-wasting egotists on internet talkboards. I don't "mislead" people when I help them without laying any stupid judgment calls on them. Where are you helping anyone, madcornish? Anna? I think not. She's as bad a time-wasting ego tripper as you. Most all OCD forum posters are.


Did I say he was ever called that? in fact he was at times, though mainly he was addressed by his name, for which the English translation is Jehovah.

Bio: There you go again, parading your Gentile ignorance: "Jehovah" in Hebrew, not your silly English, means "God" of "Ruin, Calamity".

Go out and help someone today and do not post. God told you to listen for salvation is of us Jews, not you Gentiles usurpers not knowing what you're doing when you steal our Scriptures without any spiritual authority. You are out of line literally..
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/8/2014 9:37:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 2:00:42 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/7/2014 9:50:10 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/7/2014 8:52:38 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

The bible also states that Adam was not deceived and implies he was not in the transgression due to not being deceived.
1 Titus 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

What was the transgression anyway?
What exactly was the deception?
Is gaining knowledge a sin?
If so, what exactly is wrong with gaining knowledge?
Do those who believe gaining knowledge is a sin think God wanted humans to remain ignorant and have no knowledge or understanding of good and evil and not become wise?

The transgression is that neither of them were obeying the voice of our Creator and His commandments. They went along their merry way believing in all the illusions that they thought were real in this world. Just like ALL God's people have been doing since then. The only one who obeyed God and His commandments was His invisible servant who was using illusions called prophets and saints to testify through.

Who exactly was this invisible servant and who were the prophets and saints this invisible servant was testifying through when Adam and Eve were supposedly the only people on the planet at the time?

The servant wasn't connected with our Creator until the first prophet, Noah. This is the first prophet with faith. Faith is the moment the invisible servant, our (saints and prophets) created existence as the voice of God, was spoken in the mind of our Creator, which happens to be the mind of ALL God's people. This is why when the voice of God is spoken, ALL His created "beings" hear Him speak but the flesh ( illusions ) that we live in during this age is a block to His voice. We're too busy listening to the illusions of this world ( the tree of the knowledge of good and evil ) and can't hear the voice of God in this world. He only exists within the mind, not in the world illusions that His people are believing in as being real.

Was the prophet and saint the snake who told Eve the truth?

The prophets and saints are only illusions that God uses to testify to His created servant known as the Word of God, Christ, Kingdom of God, Son of God, The Holy Spirit, Kingdom of Heaven, Zion, Breath of Life, Tree of Life, Book of Life, etc. However, the serpent that Eve heard came from the knowledge of the good and evil, which is information that came out of the Word of God that is used to keep God's people confused and blinded to our Creator, the Truth. This tree of the knowledge of good and evil is God's plan during this first age to cause a contrast of information which is a lie compared to who we really are as God's thoughts, which is the Truth but invisible to us illusions. The Truth cannot be seen by anyone. Adam and Eve were deceived by what they saw and heard from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The "tree of life" is our invisible created existence that Adam and Eve gave up because they were more interested ( loved ) the world's illusions that they could see.

If God did not want them to eat of the tree why did he not block the way to the tree in the first place?

God wanted them to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because it was His eternal plan to have this happen during this first age. I was meant to form a contrast so that He could connect with His invisible servant and use the illusions as analogies to teach His servant who He is as God's voice and that everything came out of God's thoughts through His voice. This is why God blocked this knowledge from the tree of life with the illusions that God's people thought were real.

It seems he decided to block the way to the tree of life so they could not eat of that one in case they lived forever. Gen 3:22-24

It was a necessary block that He needed to connect with His servant. If everyone was eating of the tree of life during this age, God couldn't have connected with His invisible servant, who is the tree of life.

So much for any immortal God creating immortal children in his own image then blocking the way to the tree of life to make sure they don't live forever.

The flesh we experience life in are only illusions that aren't real so it makes no difference during this age that the flesh perishes. Our created invisible "being" keeps alive and well as our flesh perishes so there's nothing to worry about. We created "beings" will get new flesh in the next age to experience many new visions and dreams for eternity.
bornofgod
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3/8/2014 9:42:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 2:04:07 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/7/2014 9:47:29 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

All you have to do is listen to our Creator through His written testimonies in here that He had His last saint write. You have all the wrong interpretations in your mind that keeps you from understanding the symbolism in the Adam and Eve story.

Please explain the symbolism in the Adam and Eve story. I would like to know what you see in it.

Here's a writing that I posted in this forum to help you understand this story of Adam and Eve.

http://www.debate.org...

If you have further questions after reading this post, I will answer all of them.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/8/2014 9:46:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 2:06:15 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/7/2014 10:59:38 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/7/2014 10:10:42 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 3/7/2014 9:59:21 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/7/2014 9:51:07 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 3/7/2014 9:47:29 PM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

All you have to do is listen to our Creator through His written testimonies in here that He had His last saint write. You have all the wrong interpretations in your mind that keeps you from understanding the symbolism in the Adam and Eve story.

All you have to do is listen to God with your own heart. You don't need the heart or mind of another in order to establish your own relationship. When you begin to believe that a mediator is required, that's when the mediator gains power over you, just as the popes did. Jesus gave us an example of how to pray, and it didn't require the intervention of anyone else.

You have no idea who our Creator is or how He works through His illusions called prophets and saints. You're being very foolish.

Oh, that's right. Because I've never claimed that God comes and speaks to me directly. Or that I'm the sole voice of God, who is more powerful than the universe, thus making me the most powerful man in existence. I'm content to just be me and I am happy with my own relationships.

My flesh has no power at all. In fact, it is a powerless illusion that will appear to die with a bullet to it's forehead. It won't hurt me at all because I'll remain alive as the illusion dies.

Are you planning on shooting yourself through the head?

The illusion will be that three men will come after me and corner me in an office at the community center here in Campbell. One of them will pull out a handgun and put it up to my forehead and pull the trigger. As the bullet hits my forehead, I notice there's no pain because now I know that my flesh is only an illusion. I never die as the flesh perishes so when the bullet strikes my forehead, I remain in a very peaceful state of consciousness, waiting for the next body that God has me experience life with, which will only seem like a split second to me.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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3/8/2014 9:48:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 5:56:17 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/8/2014 5:30:47 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 3/8/2014 4:54:05 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

The bible does not contradict itself at all.

What is original sin?

It certainly is not what many churches claim, in fact scripture gives us the exact order in which sin entered in the world, and exactly what were the first and therefore the original sins.

1) The first sin of all, and therefore the original one, was rebellion against God, committed by Satan.

2) The second one, again committed by Satan, was lying, which is why Jesus later called him "The father of the lie".

3) The third sin, committed more out of ignorance than anything else, probably compounded by the confusion of appearing to be be spoken to by a serpent, was committed by Eve.

4) The fourth sin, committed by Adam, was also a case of rebellion against God, when he attempted to blame God for what Eve did because God had given her to him. He was trying to avoid his inevitable responsibility for teaching and guiding Eve. (1 Corinthians 11:3)

And that is it. Sex inside a stable marriage arrangement has never been a sin, let alone the original one.

Original sin, the original sin is simply rebellion against God, and the vast majority of humanity are all guilty of that, whether they realise it or not.

How vast majority of humanity are all guily of that if they are not consulted?


As any lawyer in any country will tell you, ignorance is no excuse. The rules are all there, in print, for us to see if we look.

However God is not that cruel, through his son he has arranged a world wide preaching work so that people at least get the chance to learn if they wish.

Next time they knock on your door, listen.


The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son
the old testment condtadicts paul's doctrine, and jesus himself condtadicts paul by his teaching... read the following verses of Ezekiel 20 onwards.

Think for a moment... if all christains are free from sin they can do anything... from rape to murder because they are free to do whatever they wish. this makes any sense?

That is not a contradiction if you read the surrounding verses.

That law, and the one saying that sons will bear the sins of their fathers, both describe completely different circumstances.

Consider a human circumstance.

If a human father breaks the law by drinking and driving and his child is injured in the accident, are they not carrying the "punishment" of their father? Are they not suffering for what their father did over which they had no control.

Of course they are, and such as it is at them moment, life is like that.

There are some sins for which the sons will not bear guilt, but some for which they will.

After all, we all bear the "marks" of the sin of our forefather Adam. All are suffering and dying because of that one act of rebellion.

Even if the father's living children do not bear the consequences of the father's sin, what about all the children that father could have given the chance of life to?

All of these things God takes into account when he "sentences" anyone.

Only those who are prepared to live in a way which also takes all these factors, as well as the good of their fellow man and the rest of creation, into account will be allowed to survive the final test.

Don't worry MCB, your flesh will perish, too, but you will remain alive as your flesh perishes. Our spirit is what keeps going after this world ends, not our flesh.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/8/2014 10:16:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/8/2014 9:48:35 AM, bornofgod wrote:
At 3/8/2014 5:56:17 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/8/2014 5:30:47 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 3/8/2014 4:54:05 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/7/2014 1:51:47 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Original sin is sooo stupid even the bible contradicting it self.
Ezekiel 18:20-21
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Father Adam sinned, his childrens mankind cant be responsible for his mistake, the good and the bads things you do you will get it according to your deeds. if the evil person repents and turn away for his sins he surely live he shall not die! .how original sin fits in?? its not fitting, its the opposite of what paul telling us.why god will punish me for Adam sin? it more stupid when god kills his only begotten son and forgives everybody... its like crucifying your own son and letting go the rapist. soo stupid!

The bible does not contradict itself at all.

What is original sin?

It certainly is not what many churches claim, in fact scripture gives us the exact order in which sin entered in the world, and exactly what were the first and therefore the original sins.

1) The first sin of all, and therefore the original one, was rebellion against God, committed by Satan.

2) The second one, again committed by Satan, was lying, which is why Jesus later called him "The father of the lie".

3) The third sin, committed more out of ignorance than anything else, probably compounded by the confusion of appearing to be be spoken to by a serpent, was committed by Eve.

4) The fourth sin, committed by Adam, was also a case of rebellion against God, when he attempted to blame God for what Eve did because God had given her to him. He was trying to avoid his inevitable responsibility for teaching and guiding Eve. (1 Corinthians 11:3)

And that is it. Sex inside a stable marriage arrangement has never been a sin, let alone the original one.

Original sin, the original sin is simply rebellion against God, and the vast majority of humanity are all guilty of that, whether they realise it or not.

How vast majority of humanity are all guily of that if they are not consulted?


As any lawyer in any country will tell you, ignorance is no excuse. The rules are all there, in print, for us to see if we look.

However God is not that cruel, through his son he has arranged a world wide preaching work so that people at least get the chance to learn if they wish.

Next time they knock on your door, listen.


The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son
the old testment condtadicts paul's doctrine, and jesus himself condtadicts paul by his teaching... read the following verses of Ezekiel 20 onwards.

Think for a moment... if all christains are free from sin they can do anything... from rape to murder because they are free to do whatever they wish. this makes any sense?

That is not a contradiction if you read the surrounding verses.

That law, and the one saying that sons will bear the sins of their fathers, both describe completely different circumstances.

Consider a human circumstance.

If a human father breaks the law by drinking and driving and his child is injured in the accident, are they not carrying the "punishment" of their father? Are they not suffering for what their father did over which they had no control.

Of course they are, and such as it is at them moment, life is like that.

There are some sins for which the sons will not bear guilt, but some for which they will.

After all, we all bear the "marks" of the sin of our forefather Adam. All are suffering and dying because of that one act of rebellion.

Even if the father's living children do not bear the consequences of the father's sin, what about all the children that father could have given the chance of life to?

All of these things God takes into account when he "sentences" anyone.

Only those who are prepared to live in a way which also takes all these factors, as well as the good of their fellow man and the rest of creation, into account will be allowed to survive the final test.

Don't worry MCB, your flesh will perish, too, but you will remain alive as your flesh perishes. Our spirit is what keeps going after this world ends, not our flesh.

I'm not worried because know that what you describe is precisely what will not happen.