Total Posts:58|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

"This Generation"

Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/10/2014 11:32:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Matthew 24
The chapter is about the disciples asking Jesus about "the end of the world".
The following are a list of signs which Jesus mentioned after first warning of deception ( verses 4-5).

* Wars and rumors of wars.
* Famines, earthquakes, and basically natural disasters.
* Humans hating and betraying one another.
* False prophets and false Christs deceiving people.

verse 23-24 basically tells readers to not believe anyone who says Christ is here or there or claims to be Christ because many false Christs and deceivers will arise.

In reality the mental institutions of this world are the homes of many of these false Christs. Others still hang around the internet claiming to be God or the voice of God.
They place themselves in the throne of God and expect their listeners to obey them and believe whatever they say.

Now consider if people are not to believe anyone who claims to be Christ or claims Christ is any place on earth, Christ could never physically be on earth at any time in the future in any individual location as a single man. IF he was, people would say Christ is "there in that particular place" which the bible says they would do and the bible tells people not to believe them ( verse 26)
Now look closely at verse 27 . It explains why people should not believe Christ is in any particular location.
"For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Because the coming of Christ is like the coming of the light which shines from the east to the west. That is talking about the light from the sun and comparing the coming of Christ to sunrise and sunset.
No person can say the sun is in that specific location or is "here or there" because the light from the sun is always shining on all the earth at the very same time.
The rising of the sun can be seen as a "coming again" of the sun but that does not mean the sun only rises twice on earth in all of eternity. It is an event which happens continually. The sun is always "rising" in the east somewhere on earth and also also setting in the west somewhere on earth at the same time.

Now go down to verse 32. It basically talks about knowing that summer has arrived because you can see the signs of summer in nature.
Verse 32 says "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Which generation is it talking about? In context of the parable of the fig tree, it is talking about the generation which sees summer arriving. The arrival of summer is not an event which happens only twice in all eternity either. The TRUTH is that summer is always somewhere on the planet at the same time as winter is on the planet on the opposite side. Summer never leaves the planet but is always "coming again". The generation which sees summer a first time will also see summer a second time and plenty more times after the second time. It is a "cyclic event" which never leaves the earth.
That is why no man can claim to know the day or hour of its "arrival". It is always on earth and always coming and going in different parts of the earth due to the earths movement. No man can know the day or hour because there is no day or hour for any cyclic event to begin or end. No man can say the earths sunrise begins on "X" day or "X" time because in earthly measurements it happens at different times in different places yet it never really leaves the earth so have no need to "come again". The "coming again" is nothing but an illusion. It is a term to describe a repetitive phenomenon. It does not mean the phenomenon happens only twice in all of eternity any more then summer on earth happens only twice or sunrise happens only twice.

Verse 40... Talks about one being taken and another left. That phenomenon happens daily on this planet. It is talking about death. People are taken by the "grim reaper" every day and others are left. Death happens daily. The old pass away daily and are replaced by the new. The hour that no one expects is the hour of their death, yet some expect it and are prepared to die. others are not. That day is a different day for each individual. No man can claim the whole world will end on any particular day because the end is a different day for all as Life goes on in those who are left. The same principle applies to those who are left as to those who have already "been taken" or passed away. The cycle continues for ever.
The coming and going of Christ ( the SPIRIT of LIFE) is constant. It is not delayed and has never been delayed at any time. LIFE is always coming again and again and again while at the same time passing away again and again and again. Every generation experiences it, has experienced it in the past and will experience it in future.

It is not about a supernatural man appearing in the sky in literal clouds. It is about the Spirit of LIFE and TRUTH always being on earth and not being recognized by those who are led astray by false Christs and false doctrines.
The blind cannot see the Spirit of LIFE even though it is all around them and in them at all times. Christ is the SPIRIT of LIFE. the SPIRIT of TRUTH, not a supernatural man who will appear in literal clouds one day at some unknown time in the unknown future.

"THIS GENERATION" which sees the return of sunrise and the return of summer also sees the return of Christ ( LIFE) daily. That applies to ALL generations for ALL eternity not just to one generation.

If that makes no sense to you, and you do not understand it, please explain why it makes no sense and what you do not comprehend about it.
Measure
Posts: 142
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/11/2014 2:02:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/10/2014 11:32:13 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Matthew 24
The chapter is about the disciples asking Jesus about "the end of the world".
The following are a list of signs which Jesus mentioned after first warning of deception ( verses 4-5).

* Wars and rumors of wars.
* Famines, earthquakes, and basically natural disasters.
* Humans hating and betraying one another.
* False prophets and false Christs deceiving people.

verse 23-24 basically tells readers to not believe anyone who says Christ is here or there or claims to be Christ because many false Christs and deceivers will arise.

In reality the mental institutions of this world are the homes of many of these false Christs. Others still hang around the internet claiming to be God or the voice of God.
They place themselves in the throne of God and expect their listeners to obey them and believe whatever they say.

Now consider if people are not to believe anyone who claims to be Christ or claims Christ is any place on earth, Christ could never physically be on earth at any time in the future in any individual location as a single man. IF he was, people would say Christ is "there in that particular place" which the bible says they would do and the bible tells people not to believe them ( verse 26)

Well, you are right, JESUS will not place HIS feet on this earth before the thousand years are finished in Rev.20-21. Thank you!

Now look closely at verse 27 . It explains why people should not believe Christ is in any particular location.
"For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Because the coming of Christ is like the coming of the light which shines from the east to the west. That is talking about the light from the sun and comparing the coming of Christ to sunrise and sunset.
No person can say the sun is in that specific location or is "here or there" because the light from the sun is always shining on all the earth at the very same time.
The rising of the sun can be seen as a "coming again" of the sun but that does not mean the sun only rises twice on earth in all of eternity. It is an event which happens continually. The sun is always "rising" in the east somewhere on earth and also also setting in the west somewhere on earth at the same time.

1Thess.4:13-17 says different from your conclusion.

Now go down to verse 32. It basically talks about knowing that summer has arrived because you can see the signs of summer in nature.
Verse 32 says "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Which generation is it talking about? In context of the parable of the fig tree, it is talking about the generation which sees summer arriving. The arrival of summer is not an event which happens only twice in all eternity either. The TRUTH is that summer is always somewhere on the planet at the same time as winter is on the planet on the opposite side. Summer never leaves the planet but is always "coming again". The generation which sees summer a first time will also see summer a second time and plenty more times after the second time. It is a "cyclic event" which never leaves the earth.

These are not the only texts you should look at if you are really searching about the second coming of Christ. Look at all of them, please!

That is why no man can claim to know the day or hour of its "arrival". It is always on earth and always coming and going in different parts of the earth due to the earths movement. No man can know the day or hour because there is no day or hour for any cyclic event to begin or end. No man can say the earths sunrise begins on "X" day or "X" time because in earthly measurements it happens at different times in different places yet it never really leaves the earth so have no need to "come again". The "coming again" is nothing but an illusion. It is a term to describe a repetitive phenomenon. It does not mean the phenomenon happens only twice in all of eternity any more then summer on earth happens only twice or sunrise happens only twice.

Different! The Bible doesn't agree with your findings, but that's your ideas.
Did you look at all the texts that relate to the second coming of Christ?

Verse 40... Talks about one being taken and another left. That phenomenon happens daily on this planet. It is talking about death. People are taken by the "grim reaper" every day and others are left. Death happens daily. The old pass away daily and are replaced by the new. The hour that no one expects is the hour of their death, yet some expect it and are prepared to die. others are not. That day is a different day for each individual. No man can claim the whole world will end on any particular day because the end is a different day for all as Life goes on in those who are left. The same principle applies to those who are left as to those who have already "been taken" or passed away. The cycle continues for ever.
The coming and going of Christ ( the SPIRIT of LIFE) is constant. It is not delayed and has never been delayed at any time. LIFE is always coming again and again and again while at the same time passing away again and again and again. Every generation experiences it, has experienced it in the past and will experience it in future.

It is not about a supernatural man appearing in the sky in literal clouds. It is about the Spirit of LIFE and TRUTH always being on earth and not being recognized by those who are led astray by false Christs and false doctrines.
The blind cannot see the Spirit of LIFE even though it is all around them and in them at all times. Christ is the SPIRIT of LIFE. the SPIRIT of TRUTH, not a supernatural man who will appear in literal clouds one day at some unknown time in the unknown future.

"THIS GENERATION" which sees the return of sunrise and the return of summer also sees the return of Christ ( LIFE) daily. That applies to ALL generations for ALL eternity not just to one generation.

If that makes no sense to you, and you do not understand it, please explain why it makes no sense and what you do not comprehend about it.

Odd, but understandable given where you are coming from, but wrong considering not a biblical perspective, because you use the Bible!
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/11/2014 3:30:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/11/2014 2:02:20 AM, Measure wrote:
At 3/10/2014 11:32:13 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Now consider if people are not to believe anyone who claims to be Christ or claims Christ is any place on earth, Christ could never physically be on earth at any time in the future in any individual location as a single man. IF he was, people would say Christ is "there in that particular place" which the bible says they would do and the bible tells people not to believe them ( verse 26)

Well, you are right, JESUS will not place HIS feet on this earth before the thousand years are finished in Rev.20-21. Thank you!

The thousand years in the bible is symbolic of eternity and not to be taken literally.

1Thess.4:13-17 says different from your conclusion.

It all depends on how you interpret it. It fits perfectly with my concept if interpreted spiritually. The principle of people rising from their spiritually dead state ( sleep) to meet the Spirit of TRUTH in Spirit happens all the time. The clouds are not literal clouds but refer to a cloud of witnesses which encompass all generations for all eternity. (Hebrews 12:1) Some have passed on and others are still alive and there are more who are still to come. There will always be more who will join the rest in "the clouds" It is talking about becoming one in Spirit and has nothing to do with floating about in literal clouds.

Which generation is it talking about? In context of the parable of the fig tree, it is talking about the generation which sees summer arriving. The arrival of summer is not an event which happens only twice in all eternity either. The TRUTH is that summer is always somewhere on the planet at the same time as winter is on the planet on the opposite side. Summer never leaves the planet but is always "coming again". The generation which sees summer a first time will also see summer a second time and plenty more times after the second time. It is a "cyclic event" which never leaves the earth.

These are not the only texts you should look at if you are really searching about the second coming of Christ. Look at all of them, please!

I have looked at all of them in much depth over most of my life. I came to the conclusion that all scripture is talking about spiritual things which are eternal not about temporary earthly things which pass away continually. The eternal TRUTH must apply to all generations for all eternity. If it does not, it is not eternal TRUTH but merely some temporary version of truth which applies only to temporary situations.

That is why no man can claim to know the day or hour of its "arrival". It is always on earth and always coming and going in different parts of the earth due to the earths movement. No man can know the day or hour because there is no day or hour for any cyclic event to begin or end. No man can say the earths sunrise begins on "X" day or "X" time because in earthly measurements it happens at different times in different places yet it never really leaves the earth so have no need to "come again". The "coming again" is nothing but an illusion. It is a term to describe a repetitive phenomenon. It does not mean the phenomenon happens only twice in all of eternity any more then summer on earth happens only twice or sunrise happens only twice.

Different! The Bible doesn't agree with your findings, but that's your ideas.

It is actually quite a ridiculous statement to claim any book agrees with any humans. The bible does not agree or disagree with anyone. The bible is a book of words and people interpret it as they see it. All sects and cults like to believe the bible "agrees" with their doctrines because they want to believe they are right so they delude themselves into thinking the words mean what they want them to mean even if their overall doctrines have nothing to do with being eternal principles which apply to all eternal generations.
Only people can agree or disagree with each others interpretations and perceptions of the bible. Whether humans agree or disagree depends on who brainwashed them and whose perceptions they decide to adopt for whatever reasons.

Did you look at all the texts that relate to the second coming of Christ?
Yes I did.

"THIS GENERATION" which sees the return of sunrise and the return of summer also sees the return of Christ ( LIFE) daily. That applies to ALL generations for ALL eternity not just to one generation.

If that makes no sense to you, and you do not understand it, please explain why it makes no sense and what you do not comprehend about it.

Odd, but understandable given where you are coming from, but wrong considering not a biblical perspective, because you use the Bible!

It is not a perspective which is taught in any Christian church. It is my perspective which makes perfect sense to me. It is logical and it applies to all generations for all eternity not only to one particular generation in history or one in the future. It includes ALL from the past present and future.
I came to my own conclusions regarding the eternal TRUTH rather than simply adopt some false doctrines of any Christian sect and parrot them in the same way everyone else does.
Most Christian doctrines which are futuristic do not apply to all generations of the past or the generations which will continue after their so called prophecies have been fulfilled in the future.
Any doctrines which refer only to certain ages or stages in history or the future are not the eternal word of God but rather a worldly carnal minded man made version of the truth which leads people astray into fantasy land and gives them false hopes for something to happen which will never physically happen because the prophecies are about spiritual things which last forever not about physical things which pass away.
biomystic
Posts: 606
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/11/2014 8:11:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
It's irrational as all get out as Skyangle continues to spout her schizoid Deism/Nature with and without God yet using my people's Scriptures to shore her mess of an ideology up? It's telling she has to strip all religious meaning from our Jewish symbolism in order to promote her schizoid Deism that uses our Jewish Scriptures yet rejects their meaning. Does that make sense to you or anyone? No. And the sooner Skyangle learns Jewish religious symbolism the sooner she will understand Jesus Christ use of it but her ego, like the other angry woman's, won't let her budge from Gentile narcissistic religious rip-off of Jewish religion without attribution or comprehension. E.g. not understanding whatsoever the Celestial Torah reference in the New Testament symbolism of finally getting Christian believers to LOOK UP at the night sky and the "clouds of heaven", i.e. Daniel's and the NT's reference to the Milky Way as the ancients saw it. But to Skyangle, figuring out ancient esoteric symbolism is too much trouble and takes too much time so she just chucks it and substitutes Skyangle belief in God/Nature/non-theistic Deistic-non-Bible/Bible worship. Good luck figuring it out..

Skyangle, I will ask you what I asked your angry twin, anna, the other compulsive egotist here who daily puts down everyone else's beliefs and foists another schizoid atheist/theist non-Bible yet Bible centered religious belief system, to STOP POSTING for just ONE DAY. Give us one day of relief from your's and anna's constant putdowns of others with nothing rational to offer in its place but twisted atheist Bible worship that uses Scriptures yet puts them down? Please, DO NOT POST for just ONE DAY.

Like anna, I don't think you're capable of stopping your OCD behavior. You don't have control over it and Have to post or else what? What happens if you don't post, Skyangle? Do you disappear from the universe?

One day, that's all I ask. One day of no posting. At all.
Measure
Posts: 142
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/11/2014 12:17:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/11/2014 3:30:55 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/11/2014 2:02:20 AM, Measure wrote:
At 3/10/2014 11:32:13 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Now consider if people are not to believe anyone who claims to be Christ or claims Christ is any place on earth, Christ could never physically be on earth at any time in the future in any individual location as a single man. IF he was, people would say Christ is "there in that particular place" which the bible says they would do and the bible tells people not to believe them ( verse 26)

Well, you are right, JESUS will not place HIS feet on this earth before the thousand years are finished in Rev.20-21. Thank you!

The thousand years in the bible is symbolic of eternity and not to be taken literally.


1Thess.4:13-17 says different from your conclusion.

It all depends on how you interpret it. It fits perfectly with my concept if interpreted spiritually. The principle of people rising from their spiritually dead state ( sleep) to meet the Spirit of TRUTH in Spirit happens all the time. The clouds are not literal clouds but refer to a cloud of witnesses which encompass all generations for all eternity. (Hebrews 12:1) Some have passed on and others are still alive and there are more who are still to come. There will always be more who will join the rest in "the clouds" It is talking about becoming one in Spirit and has nothing to do with floating about in literal clouds.


Which generation is it talking about? In context of the parable of the fig tree, it is talking about the generation which sees summer arriving. The arrival of summer is not an event which happens only twice in all eternity either. The TRUTH is that summer is always somewhere on the planet at the same time as winter is on the planet on the opposite side. Summer never leaves the planet but is always "coming again". The generation which sees summer a first time will also see summer a second time and plenty more times after the second time. It is a "cyclic event" which never leaves the earth.

These are not the only texts you should look at if you are really searching about the second coming of Christ. Look at all of them, please!

I have looked at all of them in much depth over most of my life. I came to the conclusion that all scripture is talking about spiritual things which are eternal not about temporary earthly things which pass away continually. The eternal TRUTH must apply to all generations for all eternity. If it does not, it is not eternal TRUTH but merely some temporary version of truth which applies only to temporary situations.


That is why no man can claim to know the day or hour of its "arrival". It is always on earth and always coming and going in different parts of the earth due to the earths movement. No man can know the day or hour because there is no day or hour for any cyclic event to begin or end. No man can say the earths sunrise begins on "X" day or "X" time because in earthly measurements it happens at different times in different places yet it never really leaves the earth so have no need to "come again". The "coming again" is nothing but an illusion. It is a term to describe a repetitive phenomenon. It does not mean the phenomenon happens only twice in all of eternity any more then summer on earth happens only twice or sunrise happens only twice.

Different! The Bible doesn't agree with your findings, but that's your ideas.

It is actually quite a ridiculous statement to claim any book agrees with any humans. The bible does not agree or disagree with anyone. The bible is a book of words and people interpret it as they see it. All sects and cults like to believe the bible "agrees" with their doctrines because they want to believe they are right so they delude themselves into thinking the words mean what they want them to mean even if their overall doctrines have nothing to do with being eternal principles which apply to all eternal generations.
Only people can agree or disagree with each others interpretations and perceptions of the bible. Whether humans agree or disagree depends on who brainwashed them and whose perceptions they decide to adopt for whatever reasons.

Did you look at all the texts that relate to the second coming of Christ?
Yes I did.


"THIS GENERATION" which sees the return of sunrise and the return of summer also sees the return of Christ ( LIFE) daily. That applies to ALL generations for ALL eternity not just to one generation.

If that makes no sense to you, and you do not understand it, please explain why it makes no sense and what you do not comprehend about it.

Odd, but understandable given where you are coming from, but wrong considering not a biblical perspective, because you use the Bible!

It is not a perspective which is taught in any Christian church. It is my perspective which makes perfect sense to me. It is logical and it applies to all generations for all eternity not only to one particular generation in history or one in the future. It includes ALL from the past present and future.
I came to my own conclusions regarding the eternal TRUTH rather than simply adopt some false doctrines of any Christian sect and parrot them in the same way everyone else does.

Simply no Scripture to back up your understanding of scripture! Strange............! Just your comments I see..... OK! Spiritual interpretation, spiritualize everything, meaning, its all just a story, fairy-tale, allegory, not to be taken literally, or hold any literal historical weight? Just asking, for clarification.

You don't use scripture to interpret scripture I see, you use your thoughts, your ideas, to interpret scripture?
To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20

Most Christian doctrines which are futuristic do not apply to all generations of the past or the generations which will continue after their so called prophecies have been fulfilled in the future.
Any doctrines which refer only to certain ages or stages in history or the future are not the eternal word of God but rather a worldly carnal minded man made version of the truth which leads people astray into fantasy land and gives them false hopes for something to happen which will never physically happen because the prophecies are about spiritual things which last forever not about physical things which pass away.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/11/2014 9:57:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/11/2014 8:11:34 AM, biomystic wrote:
It's irrational as all get out as Skyangle continues to spout her schizoid Deism/Nature with and without God yet using my people's Scriptures to shore her mess of an ideology up? It's telling she has to strip all religious meaning from our Jewish symbolism in order to promote her schizoid Deism that uses our Jewish Scriptures yet rejects their meaning. Does that make sense to you or anyone? No. And the sooner Skyangle learns Jewish religious symbolism the sooner she will understand Jesus Christ use of it but her ego, like the other angry woman's, won't let her budge from Gentile narcissistic religious rip-off of Jewish religion without attribution or comprehension. E.g. not understanding whatsoever the Celestial Torah reference in the New Testament symbolism of finally getting Christian believers to LOOK UP at the night sky and the "clouds of heaven", i.e. Daniel's and the NT's reference to the Milky Way as the ancients saw it. But to Skyangle, figuring out ancient esoteric symbolism is too much trouble and takes too much time so she just chucks it and substitutes Skyangle belief in God/Nature/non-theistic Deistic-non-Bible/Bible worship. Good luck figuring it out..

Skyangle, I will ask you what I asked your angry twin, anna, the other compulsive egotist here who daily puts down everyone else's beliefs and foists another schizoid atheist/theist non-Bible yet Bible centered religious belief system, to STOP POSTING for just ONE DAY. Give us one day of relief from your's and anna's constant putdowns of others with nothing rational to offer in its place but twisted atheist Bible worship that uses Scriptures yet puts them down? Please, DO NOT POST for just ONE DAY.

Like anna, I don't think you're capable of stopping your OCD behavior. You don't have control over it and Have to post or else what? What happens if you don't post, Skyangle? Do you disappear from the universe?

One day, that's all I ask. One day of no posting. At all.

I do not suffer from OCD and never have. Stop foolishly trying to diagnose people from what they write on the internet. That is sheer stupidity on your part.
If anyone is obsessed by anything it is you. You are obsessively telling others to stop posting.
Are you capable of stopping that ridiculous behaviour? Maybe you are the one who needs to take a break if you do not like what others post and don't want to read it for a day. Stay away from the forum and don't read it. Don't open the threads where those who annoy you post and don't read what they write if it upsets you so much that you need to beg them to refrain from posting.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/11/2014 10:20:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/11/2014 12:17:28 PM, Measure wrote:

Simply no Scripture to back up your understanding of scripture! Strange............! Just your comments I see..... OK! Spiritual interpretation, spiritualize everything, meaning, its all just a story, fairy-tale, allegory, not to be taken literally, or hold any literal historical weight? Just asking, for clarification.

You don't use scripture to interpret scripture I see, you use your thoughts, your ideas, to interpret scripture?
To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20

There are plenty of scripture references in my posts. If you took the time to look them up instead of ignoring them you might actually learn something.
Scripture itself teaches that scripture (the things of the Spirit of God) should be spiritually discerned.

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Yes it is all just an allegorical story, filled with parables, idioms, symbolism, metaphors, poetry, etc. Not to be taken literally. The message of Truth is in the morals and principles of the stories.

Jews themselves consider their own scriptures allegorical not historical. Therefore it is sheer foolishness for other cultures to consider them to be historical.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com...
Measure
Posts: 142
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/12/2014 1:58:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/11/2014 10:20:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/11/2014 12:17:28 PM, Measure wrote:


Simply no Scripture to back up your understanding of scripture! Strange............! Just your comments I see..... OK! Spiritual interpretation, spiritualize everything, meaning, its all just a story, fairy-tale, allegory, not to be taken literally, or hold any literal historical weight? Just asking, for clarification.

You don't use scripture to interpret scripture I see, you use your thoughts, your ideas, to interpret scripture?
To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:20

There are plenty of scripture references in my posts. If you took the time to look them up instead of ignoring them you might actually learn something.
Scripture itself teaches that scripture (the things of the Spirit of God) should be spiritually discerned.

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

That doesn't say the word of God is just a story. And I did read your texts, thank you. You need the Holy Spirit to understand them, not spiritualize them away.
Howbeit the Holy Spirit when is come, HE will guide you into all truth.Jn 16:13

Yes it is all just an allegorical story, filled with parables, idioms, symbolism, metaphors, poetry, etc. Not to be taken literally. The message of Truth is in the morals and principles of the stories.

How is the Cross just a story, not to be taken literally? So when JESUS said, I AM the way the truth and the life. that was not literal? GOD is Love, is not literal? JESUS, FATHER, HOLY SPIRIT are not literal? Just asking.

Jews themselves consider their own scriptures allegorical not historical. Therefore it is sheer foolishness for other cultures to consider them to be historical.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com...

Sad commentary! I don't look up to them. Never have. Sorry! That holds no water for me, I'm not a non-believing Jew.
Of course, they don't like what's in the New Testament, since it holds alot of Old Testament texts. Like the Tabernacle never literally was there with all their sacrifices!
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/12/2014 2:46:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/12/2014 1:58:46 AM, Measure wrote:
At 3/11/2014 10:20:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Scripture itself teaches that scripture (the things of the Spirit of God) should be spiritually discerned.

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

That doesn't say the word of God is just a story. And I did read your texts, thank you. You need the Holy Spirit to understand them, not spiritualize them away.
Howbeit the Holy Spirit when is come, HE will guide you into all truth.Jn 16:13

Are you still waiting for the Holy Spirit to arrive?

Yes it is all just an allegorical story, filled with parables, idioms, symbolism, metaphors, poetry, etc. Not to be taken literally. The message of Truth is in the morals and principles of the stories.

How is the Cross just a story, not to be taken literally? So when JESUS said, I AM the way the truth and the life. that was not literal? GOD is Love, is not literal? JESUS, FATHER, HOLY SPIRIT are not literal? Just asking.

The cross is a story about how the TRUTH is despised and rejected and crucified in LIFE.
When Jesus said "I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE", it was not a historical person saying the words but a bible story character who was the principle of truth in life personified.

Jews themselves consider their own scriptures allegorical not historical. Therefore it is sheer foolishness for other cultures to consider them to be historical.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com...

Sad commentary! I don't look up to them. Never have. Sorry! That holds no water for me, I'm not a non-believing Jew.
Of course, they don't like what's in the New Testament, since it holds alot of Old Testament texts. Like the Tabernacle never literally was there with all their sacrifices!

Whether you look up to them or not makes no difference to the fact that they perceive their own scriptures to be allegorical. Since the scriptures are Jewish writings, westerners should respect the allegorical interpretation. Westerners should not interpret them literally when Jews don't interpret them literally.
Only a fool would take an allegorical story and claim it is historical.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/12/2014 2:57:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/10/2014 11:32:13 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Matthew 24

verse 23-24 basically tells readers to not believe anyone who says Christ is here or there or claims to be Christ because many false Christs and deceivers will arise.

What about Zecharaiah 14:1 - 4 particularly -

And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, . . . . (Zech. 14:4) KJV Story book
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/12/2014 6:21:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The whole she-bang down to about verse 34 or 35 is speaking of the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70. All of the signs given prior to those passages can be confirmed, some more and some less, historically. The thought changes at the transition, "Heaven and earth shall pass way .... " Then "no man knoweth the hour". That's the second coming. One can compare similar passages in Luke.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/12/2014 9:43:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/12/2014 2:57:58 AM, Composer wrote:
At 3/10/2014 11:32:13 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Matthew 24

verse 23-24 basically tells readers to not believe anyone who says Christ is here or there or claims to be Christ because many false Christs and deceivers will arise.

What about Zecharaiah 14:1 - 4 particularly -

And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, . . . . (Zech. 14:4) KJV Story book

There are at least two ways to look at and interpret any bible stories. Literally or spiritually.
I have looked at the bible stories both ways and considered both interpretations. I have compared the two to see which makes more sense. To me the spiritual interpretation makes far more sense especially when the story includes a SPIRIT as a character. The LORD is a SPIRIT not a man with literal physical body parts.

1. Literal interpretation...
People can simply read and judge the bible stories on outward appearances and take them at face value. They can believe that Jerusalem is referring to a physical city on earth and interpret all stories which mention the city as being about the physical city but then you need to take everything else in the story as being something literal and physical as well. When you do that, often the stories make no logical sense.

2. Spiritual interpretation...
People can understand that the Hebrew names for places and people have deeper meanings and are not just meaningless names like they often are in English. Those meanings have much spiritual significance and unless you understand the meanings, metaphors and euphemisms, etc you will never understand the spiritual significance of the stories.

The feet of the Lord (in Zechariah 14:1-4) are obviously not anyones literal feet or the feet of any supernatural being since Spirits do not have physical feet.
In verse 3, the Lord is fighting against nations. Since the Lord is a SPIRIT, this is logically about a spiritual war not any physical war fought by physical people or any physical God.
Therefore it cannot be about a physical city or physical mountain either.
"His feet" in verse 4 is referring to the feet of the Lord. Since they are not physical feet, you need to ask yourself what that symbolizes in a spiritual sense.

Spiritually "the day of the Lord" is every day. "In that day" is referring to the day of spiritual battle. "That day" could be any day that any soul has a spiritual battle in their "innermost being"
The spiritual "heart and mind" of humans is where these spiritual battles and conflicts take place. They do not take place in physical cities on earth.

People are the metaphorical "cities".
Matt 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

That includes people of every generation on earth in the past present and future. They all go though inner conflicts and spiritual battles within themselves "in that day" when they are judged or challenged by LIFE in its various forms.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/12/2014 10:16:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/12/2014 6:21:49 AM, annanicole wrote:
The whole she-bang down to about verse 34 or 35 is speaking of the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70. All of the signs given prior to those passages can be confirmed, some more and some less, historically. The thought changes at the transition, "Heaven and earth shall pass way .... " Then "no man knoweth the hour". That's the second coming. One can compare similar passages in Luke.

Anna, why would Jesus be talking about the fall of a physical city in AD 70 when he was answering the question the disciples asked in verse 3 " Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Are you suggesting the end of the world was in AD 70?
Has heaven and earth passed away?
Have the stars literally fallen from heaven? ( verse 29) Do you think they ever will? Where will they fall to if they fall from heaven?

Do you think "this generation" in verse 34 is referring to the generation which saw the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 or the generation which sees "the end of the world" ?
Was the fall of Jerusalem "the end of the world"?
Have all the prophecies in Matthew 24 been fulfilled? Has Jesus returned to earth and is ruling the earth?
What about verse 36-44. Was it "the end of the world" in the days of Noah or just the "end of the world" for those who died in the story as LIFE went on for the rest?

Matthew 16: 27-28
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

In the above verses Jesus is talking about the son of man coming with his angels etc. Notice he says that some people who were present and heard him at that time would not die before they saw the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Do you believe Jesus, the Son of man has already returned in his kingdom or are you still waiting for it to happen? Have all the people who heard Jesus speak those words died or not? Are any of those who were standing there still alive today?
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/13/2014 6:22:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/12/2014 10:16:45 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/12/2014 6:21:49 AM, annanicole wrote:
The whole she-bang down to about verse 34 or 35 is speaking of the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70. All of the signs given prior to those passages can be confirmed, some more and some less, historically. The thought changes at the transition, "Heaven and earth shall pass way .... " Then "no man knoweth the hour". That's the second coming. One can compare similar passages in Luke.

Anna, why would Jesus be talking about the fall of a physical city in AD 70 when he was answering the question the disciples asked in verse 3 " Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Are you suggesting the end of the world was in AD 70?
Has heaven and earth passed away?
Have the stars literally fallen from heaven? ( verse 29) Do you think they ever will? Where will they fall to if they fall from heaven?

Do you think "this generation" in verse 34 is referring to the generation which saw the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 or the generation which sees "the end of the world" ?
Was the fall of Jerusalem "the end of the world"?
Have all the prophecies in Matthew 24 been fulfilled? Has Jesus returned to earth and is ruling the earth?
What about verse 36-44. Was it "the end of the world" in the days of Noah or just the "end of the world" for those who died in the story as LIFE went on for the rest?

Matthew 16: 27-28
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

In the above verses Jesus is talking about the son of man coming with his angels etc. Notice he says that some people who were present and heard him at that time would not die before they saw the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Do you believe Jesus, the Son of man has already returned in his kingdom or are you still waiting for it to happen? Have all the people who heard Jesus speak those words died or not? Are any of those who were standing there still alive today?

Jesus was answering more than one question in Matt 24. Note the context of the question:

"And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to [him] for
to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down ..."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
PGA
Posts: 4,032
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/13/2014 5:21:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/10/2014 11:32:13 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Matthew 24
The chapter is about the disciples asking Jesus about "the end of the world".
The following are a list of signs which Jesus mentioned after first warning of deception ( verses 4-5).

Not the end of the world, the end of the age. The age was the age of the Old Covenant.

* Wars and rumors of wars.
* Famines, earthquakes, and basically natural disasters.
* Humans hating and betraying one another.
* False prophets and false Christs deceiving people.

All fulfilled in the 1st century. Many are recorded in the NT.

verse 23-24 basically tells readers to not believe anyone who says Christ is here or there or claims to be Christ because many false Christs and deceivers will arise.

In reality the mental institutions of this world are the homes of many of these false Christs. Others still hang around the internet claiming to be God or the voice of God.
They place themselves in the throne of God and expect their listeners to obey them and believe whatever they say.

Now consider if people are not to believe anyone who claims to be Christ or claims Christ is any place on earth, Christ could never physically be on earth at any time in the future in any individual location as a single man. IF he was, people would say Christ is "there in that particular place" which the bible says they would do and the bible tells people not to believe them ( verse 26)
Now look closely at verse 27 . It explains why people should not believe Christ is in any particular location.
"For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Because the coming of Christ is like the coming of the light which shines from the east to the west. That is talking about the light from the sun and comparing the coming of Christ to sunrise and sunset.
No person can say the sun is in that specific location or is "here or there" because the light from the sun is always shining on all the earth at the very same time.
The rising of the sun can be seen as a "coming again" of the sun but that does not mean the sun only rises twice on earth in all of eternity. It is an event which happens continually. The sun is always "rising" in the east somewhere on earth and also also setting in the west somewhere on earth at the same time.

To understand the 'coming of Christ one has to understand what the term meant to the 1st century Jewish audience that it was addressed to.

Now go down to verse 32. It basically talks about knowing that summer has arrived because you can see the signs of summer in nature.
Verse 32 says "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Which generation is it talking about? In context of the parable of the fig tree, it is talking about the generation which sees summer arriving. The arrival of summer is not an event which happens only twice in all eternity either. The TRUTH is that summer is always somewhere on the planet at the same time as winter is on the planet on the opposite side. Summer never leaves the planet but is always "coming again". The generation which sees summer a first time will also see summer a second time and plenty more times after the second time. It is a "cyclic event" which never leaves the earth.
That is why no man can claim to know the day or hour of its "arrival". It is always on earth and always coming and going in different parts of the earth due to the earths movement. No man can know the day or hour because there is no day or hour for any cyclic event to begin or end. No man can say the earths sunrise begins on "X" day or "X" time because in earthly measurements it happens at different times in different places yet it never really leaves the earth so have no need to "come again". The "coming again" is nothing but an illusion. It is a term to describe a repetitive phenomenon. It does not mean the phenomenon happens only twice in all of eternity any more then summer on earth happens only twice or sunrise happens only twice.

The generation spoken of is the 1st century one that Jesus is addressing.

Verse 40... Talks about one being taken and another left. That phenomenon happens daily on this planet. It is talking about death. People are taken by the "grim reaper" every day and others are left. Death happens daily. The old pass away daily and are replaced by the new. The hour that no one expects is the hour of their death, yet some expect it and are prepared to die. others are not. That day is a different day for each individual. No man can claim the whole world will end on any particular day because the end is a different day for all as Life goes on in those who are left. The same principle applies to those who are left as to those who have already "been taken" or passed away. The cycle continues for ever.
The coming and going of Christ ( the SPIRIT of LIFE) is constant. It is not delayed and has never been delayed at any time. LIFE is always coming again and again and again while at the same time passing away again and again and again. Every generation experiences it, has experienced it in the past and will experience it in future.

It is not about a supernatural man appearing in the sky in literal clouds. It is about the Spirit of LIFE and TRUTH always being on earth and not being recognized by those who are led astray by false Christs and false doctrines.
The blind cannot see the Spirit of LIFE even though it is all around them and in them at all times. Christ is the SPIRIT of LIFE. the SPIRIT of TRUTH, not a supernatural man who will appear in literal clouds one day at some unknown time in the unknown future.

"THIS GENERATION" which sees the return of sunrise and the return of summer also sees the return of Christ ( LIFE) daily. That applies to ALL generations for ALL eternity not just to one generation.

No it does not. You are twisting the meaning to suit your own ideas.

If that makes no sense to you, and you do not understand it, please explain why it makes no sense and what you do not comprehend about it.

Jesus using the term 'this generation' a number of times in the gospels. They apply to a 1st century audience in their context. You want to switch the meaning to apply to your 'spiritual' mind. You make Scripture say whatever you want it to say, thus you do not get God's intended meaning. You are trying to promote your own agenda.

Peter
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/13/2014 9:04:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/13/2014 6:22:00 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 3/12/2014 10:16:45 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/12/2014 6:21:49 AM, annanicole wrote:
The whole she-bang down to about verse 34 or 35 is speaking of the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70. All of the signs given prior to those passages can be confirmed, some more and some less, historically. The thought changes at the transition, "Heaven and earth shall pass way .... " Then "no man knoweth the hour". That's the second coming. One can compare similar passages in Luke.

Anna, why would Jesus be talking about the fall of a physical city in AD 70 when he was answering the question the disciples asked in verse 3 " Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

Are you suggesting the end of the world was in AD 70?
Has heaven and earth passed away?
Have the stars literally fallen from heaven? ( verse 29) Do you think they ever will? Where will they fall to if they fall from heaven?

Do you think "this generation" in verse 34 is referring to the generation which saw the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70 or the generation which sees "the end of the world" ?
Was the fall of Jerusalem "the end of the world"?
Have all the prophecies in Matthew 24 been fulfilled? Has Jesus returned to earth and is ruling the earth?
What about verse 36-44. Was it "the end of the world" in the days of Noah or just the "end of the world" for those who died in the story as LIFE went on for the rest?

Matthew 16: 27-28
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

In the above verses Jesus is talking about the son of man coming with his angels etc. Notice he says that some people who were present and heard him at that time would not die before they saw the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Do you believe Jesus, the Son of man has already returned in his kingdom or are you still waiting for it to happen? Have all the people who heard Jesus speak those words died or not? Are any of those who were standing there still alive today?

Jesus was answering more than one question in Matt 24. Note the context of the question:

"And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to [him] for
to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? Verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down ..."

It seems you have answered no questions at all. You seem to insist other people answer your questions yet you do not answer questions when others ask you to answer them.

When Jesus spoke about the temple, he was actually not talking about a physical building but about his own body. Read John 2: 18-22 and take special notice of verse 21 which tells you exactly what Jesus was talking about when referring to the destruction of the temple.

Now please go back and answer the questions I asked you.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/13/2014 9:28:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/13/2014 5:21:29 PM, PGA wrote:
At 3/10/2014 11:32:13 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Matthew 24
The chapter is about the disciples asking Jesus about "the end of the world".
The following are a list of signs which Jesus mentioned after first warning of deception ( verses 4-5).

Not the end of the world, the end of the age. The age was the age of the Old Covenant.

Then why are so many people still under the law of the old covenant? Why did Jesus preach that they still had to keep the commandments?

* Wars and rumors of wars.
* Famines, earthquakes, and basically natural disasters.
* Humans hating and betraying one another.
* False prophets and false Christs deceiving people.

All fulfilled in the 1st century. Many are recorded in the NT.

They are still all relevant today and still being fulfilled continually. They are cyclic and always on earth all the time in various places. It will be the same in the future with all these things still happening on our planet.

verse 23-24 basically tells readers to not believe anyone who says Christ is here or there or claims to be Christ because many false Christs and deceivers will arise.
...............etc....................

The rising of the sun can be seen as a "coming again" of the sun but that does not mean the sun only rises twice on earth in all of eternity. It is an event which happens continually. The sun is always "rising" in the east somewhere on earth and also also setting in the west somewhere on earth at the same time.

To understand the 'coming of Christ one has to understand what the term meant to the 1st century Jewish audience that it was addressed to.

If you think you know what the term meant to the 1st century Jewish audience, why don't you share that information?
How do you know everyone in that audience even saw it the same way if they don't all see it the same way today?
You need to remember that the first century audience did not think alike and did not all agree with each other any more than all of todays audience agrees with each other or sees things the same way.

Now go down to verse 32. It basically talks about knowing that summer has arrived because you can see the signs of summer in nature.
Verse 32 says "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Which generation is it talking about? ....etc.

The generation spoken of is the 1st century one that Jesus is addressing.

Did they see the return of the Son of Man and the end of the world in your opinion?

Verse 40... Talks about one being taken and another left. That phenomenon happens daily on this planet. It is talking about death. People are taken by the "grim reaper" every day and others are left. Death happens daily.

.....................etc.........................

"THIS GENERATION" which sees the return of sunrise and the return of summer also sees the return of Christ ( LIFE) daily. That applies to ALL generations for ALL eternity not just to one generation.

No it does not. You are twisting the meaning to suit your own ideas.

What exactly are you saying does NOT happen regularly and does NOT apply to all generations?
One being taken and another left?
Summer'
Sunrise?
Life?
Death?
Rumors of wars?
People betraying one another?
How exactly am I twisting scripture? I see what I see and there is nothing twisted about it. It is perfectly logical and realistic. No fantasy or magic or false hopes of the future involved.

If that makes no sense to you, and you do not understand it, please explain why it makes no sense and what you do not comprehend about it.

Jesus using the term 'this generation' a number of times in the gospels. They apply to a 1st century audience in their context. You want to switch the meaning to apply to your 'spiritual' mind. You make Scripture say whatever you want it to say, thus you do not get God's intended meaning. You are trying to promote your own agenda.

Peter

If they apply ONLY to the first century audience in your opinion is scripture irrelevant for todays audience?

Why are todays audience still waiting for prophecies to be fulfilled if the 1st century audience saw their fulfillment?

Religions are promoting their own agenda when they preach false doctrines. Claiming I do not get "Gods intended meaning" is a very subjective claim.

Do you think you get "Gods intended meaning" more than anyone else or has your religion brainwashed you into believing only your religion "gets Gods intended meaning?"

What agenda do you think I am trying to promote?
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/13/2014 9:31:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/10/2014 11:32:13 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Matthew 24
The chapter is about the disciples asking Jesus about "the end of the world".
The following are a list of signs which Jesus mentioned after first warning of deception ( verses 4-5).

* Wars and rumors of wars.
* Famines, earthquakes, and basically natural disasters.
* Humans hating and betraying one another.
* False prophets and false Christs deceiving people.

verse 23-24 basically tells readers to not believe anyone who says Christ is here or there or claims to be Christ because many false Christs and deceivers will arise.

In reality the mental institutions of this world are the homes of many of these false Christs. Others still hang around the internet claiming to be God or the voice of God.
They place themselves in the throne of God and expect their listeners to obey them and believe whatever they say.

Now consider if people are not to believe anyone who claims to be Christ or claims Christ is any place on earth, Christ could never physically be on earth at any time in the future in any individual location as a single man. IF he was, people would say Christ is "there in that particular place" which the bible says they would do and the bible tells people not to believe them ( verse 26)
Now look closely at verse 27 . It explains why people should not believe Christ is in any particular location.
"For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Because the coming of Christ is like the coming of the light which shines from the east to the west. That is talking about the light from the sun and comparing the coming of Christ to sunrise and sunset.
No person can say the sun is in that specific location or is "here or there" because the light from the sun is always shining on all the earth at the very same time.
The rising of the sun can be seen as a "coming again" of the sun but that does not mean the sun only rises twice on earth in all of eternity. It is an event which happens continually. The sun is always "rising" in the east somewhere on earth and also also setting in the west somewhere on earth at the same time.

Now go down to verse 32. It basically talks about knowing that summer has arrived because you can see the signs of summer in nature.
Verse 32 says "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Which generation is it talking about? In context of the parable of the fig tree, it is talking about the generation which sees summer arriving. The arrival of summer is not an event which happens only twice in all eternity either. The TRUTH is that summer is always somewhere on the planet at the same time as winter is on the planet on the opposite side. Summer never leaves the planet but is always "coming again". The generation which sees summer a first time will also see summer a second time and plenty more times after the second time. It is a "cyclic event" which never leaves the earth.
That is why no man can claim to know the day or hour of its "arrival". It is always on earth and always coming and going in different parts of the earth due to the earths movement. No man can know the day or hour because there is no day or hour for any cyclic event to begin or end. No man can say the earths sunrise begins on "X" day or "X" time because in earthly measurements it happens at different times in different places yet it never really leaves the earth so have no need to "come again". The "coming again" is nothing but an illusion. It is a term to describe a repetitive phenomenon. It does not mean the phenomenon happens only twice in all of eternity any more then summer on earth happens only twice or sunrise happens only twice.

Verse 40... Talks about one being taken and another left. That phenomenon happens daily on this planet. It is talking about death. People are taken by the "grim reaper" every day and others are left. Death happens daily. The old pass away daily and are replaced by the new. The hour that no one expects is the hour of their death, yet some expect it and are prepared to die. others are not. That day is a different day for each individual. No man can claim the whole world will end on any particular day because the end is a different day for all as Life goes on in those who are left. The same principle applies to those who are left as to those who have already "been taken" or passed away. The cycle continues for ever.
The coming and going of Christ ( the SPIRIT of LIFE) is constant. It is not delayed and has never been delayed at any time. LIFE is always coming again and again and again while at the same time passing away again and again and again. Every generation experiences it, has experienced it in the past and will experience it in future.

It is not about a supernatural man appearing in the sky in literal clouds. It is about the Spirit of LIFE and TRUTH always being on earth and not being recognized by those who are led astray by false Christs and false doctrines.
The blind cannot see the Spirit of LIFE even though it is all around them and in them at all times. Christ is the SPIRIT of LIFE. the SPIRIT of TRUTH, not a supernatural man who will appear in literal clouds one day at some unknown time in the unknown future.

"THIS GENERATION" which sees the return of sunrise and the return of summer also sees the return of Christ ( LIFE) daily. That applies to ALL generations for ALL eternity not just to one generation.

If that makes no sense to you, and you do not understand it, please explain why it makes no sense and what you do not comprehend about it.

Not one idea in this post makes any sense. Your thoughts are so far from the Truth that you'll never know our Creator during this generation of man's flesh.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/13/2014 10:27:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/13/2014 9:31:23 PM, bornofgod wrote:

Not one idea in this post makes any sense. Your thoughts are so far from the Truth that you'll never know our Creator during this generation of man's flesh.

I totally understand that sanity makes no sense at all to the insane.
If you ever gain sanity again Brad you might understand what I am talking about. In the meanwhile go back to your illusions, fantasies and fairy tales. You obviously need them to escape from reality.
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2014 2:48:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
While I do not agree with PGA, he is correct in his analysis of Matt 24: 1-34 as far as I have been able to tell.

You asked,

"If they apply ONLY to the first century audience in your opinion is scripture irrelevant for todays audience?'

The relevance may be different for today's audience, but it is nonetheless relevant. Christians can derive great benefit from reading Matt 24: 1-35, then reading historical accounts of its fulfillment such as can be found in the writings of Josephus. It just goes to prove that a belief in the Bible is not exactly a blind leap in the dark.

Why are todays audience still waiting for prophecies to be fulfilled if the 1st century audience saw their fulfillment?

That's a good question. Jesus said, "This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled." That is so plain. So simple. Someone has to pretty much say, "Well, I don't think the things were fulfilled, so I'll just make up another definition for 'this generation'." Old MadCornish's favorite group of sooth-sayers, the Jehovah's Witnesses, has made up eight or nine definitions over the years because time was running out on their last definition. They thus refuse to believe the passage really means what it says.

My answer to your question: it's fun, it's interesting, and it sells.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2014 3:56:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/14/2014 2:48:21 AM, annanicole wrote:
While I do not agree with PGA, he is correct in his analysis of Matt 24: 1-34 as far as I have been able to tell.

You asked,

"If they apply ONLY to the first century audience in your opinion is scripture irrelevant for todays audience?'

The relevance may be different for today's audience, but it is nonetheless relevant. Christians can derive great benefit from reading Matt 24: 1-35, then reading historical accounts of its fulfillment such as can be found in the writings of Josephus. It just goes to prove that a belief in the Bible is not exactly a blind leap in the dark.

Why are todays audience still waiting for prophecies to be fulfilled if the 1st century audience saw their fulfillment?

That's a good question. Jesus said, "This generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled." That is so plain. So simple. Someone has to pretty much say, "Well, I don't think the things were fulfilled, so I'll just make up another definition for 'this generation'." Old MadCornish's favorite group of sooth-sayers, the Jehovah's Witnesses, has made up eight or nine definitions over the years because time was running out on their last definition. They thus refuse to believe the passage really means what it says.

My answer to your question: it's fun, it's interesting, and it sells.

God's people will trust God's people before they trust Him for answers.

1 John 5
9: If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater; for this is the testimony of God that he has borne witness to his Son.

1 John 4
4: Little children, you are of God, and have overcome them; for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
5: They are of the world, therefore what they say is of the world, and the world listens to them.
6: We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2014 4:09:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/13/2014 10:27:18 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/13/2014 9:31:23 PM, bornofgod wrote:

Not one idea in this post makes any sense. Your thoughts are so far from the Truth that you'll never know our Creator during this generation of man's flesh.

I totally understand that sanity makes no sense at all to the insane.
If you ever gain sanity again Brad you might understand what I am talking about. In the meanwhile go back to your illusions, fantasies and fairy tales. You obviously need them to escape from reality.

Which generation is it talking about? In context of the parable of the fig tree, it is talking about the generation which sees summer arriving. The arrival of summer is not an event which happens only twice in all eternity either. The TRUTH is that summer is always somewhere on the planet at the same time as winter is on the planet on the opposite side. Summer never leaves the planet but is always "coming again". The generation which sees summer a first time will also see summer a second time and plenty more times after the second time. It is a "cyclic event" which never leaves the earth.
That is why no man can claim to know the day or hour of its "arrival". It is always on earth and always coming and going in different parts of the earth due to the earths movement. No man can know the day or hour because there is no day or hour for any cyclic event to begin or end. No man can say the earths sunrise begins on "X" day or "X" time because in earthly measurements it happens at different times in different places yet it never really leaves the earth so have no need to "come again". The "coming again" is nothing but an illusion. It is a term to describe a repetitive phenomenon. It does not mean the phenomenon happens only twice in all of eternity any more then summer on earth happens only twice or sunrise happens only twice.


This part here deceives God's people because you do not understand the day of the Lord. Yes, I know that everyone who dies before the last day of this age is finished living in the illusions of this world. Over 7 billions people will join the rest of God's created people within His consciousness to end this age. Life will never be lived like it did during this age again. I you had the knowledge of God to know the future, then you would understand what I'm talking about. Since you have no clue what the future is going to be, that tells me that you don't know our Creator.
Cooldudebro
Posts: 383
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2014 4:31:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/10/2014 11:32:13 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Matthew 24
The chapter is about the disciples asking Jesus about "the end of the world".
The following are a list of signs which Jesus mentioned after first warning of deception ( verses 4-5).

* Wars and rumors of wars.
* Famines, earthquakes, and basically natural disasters.
* Humans hating and betraying one another.
* False prophets and false Christs deceiving people.

verse 23-24 basically tells readers to not believe anyone who says Christ is here or there or claims to be Christ because many false Christs and deceivers will arise.

In reality the mental institutions of this world are the homes of many of these false Christs. Others still hang around the internet claiming to be God or the voice of God.
They place themselves in the throne of God and expect their listeners to obey them and believe whatever they say.

Now consider if people are not to believe anyone who claims to be Christ or claims Christ is any place on earth, Christ could never physically be on earth at any time in the future in any individual location as a single man. IF he was, people would say Christ is "there in that particular place" which the bible says they would do and the bible tells people not to believe them ( verse 26)
Now look closely at verse 27 . It explains why people should not believe Christ is in any particular location.
"For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Because the coming of Christ is like the coming of the light which shines from the east to the west. That is talking about the light from the sun and comparing the coming of Christ to sunrise and sunset.
No person can say the sun is in that specific location or is "here or there" because the light from the sun is always shining on all the earth at the very same time.
The rising of the sun can be seen as a "coming again" of the sun but that does not mean the sun only rises twice on earth in all of eternity. It is an event which happens continually. The sun is always "rising" in the east somewhere on earth and also also setting in the west somewhere on earth at the same time.

Now go down to verse 32. It basically talks about knowing that summer has arrived because you can see the signs of summer in nature.
Verse 32 says "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Which generation is it talking about? In context of the parable of the fig tree, it is talking about the generation which sees summer arriving. The arrival of summer is not an event which happens only twice in all eternity either. The TRUTH is that summer is always somewhere on the planet at the same time as winter is on the planet on the opposite side. Summer never leaves the planet but is always "coming again". The generation which sees summer a first time will also see summer a second time and plenty more times after the second time. It is a "cyclic event" which never leaves the earth.
That is why no man can claim to know the day or hour of its "arrival". It is always on earth and always coming and going in different parts of the earth due to the earths movement. No man can know the day or hour because there is no day or hour for any cyclic event to begin or end. No man can say the earths sunrise begins on "X" day or "X" time because in earthly measurements it happens at different times in different places yet it never really leaves the earth so have no need to "come again". The "coming again" is nothing but an illusion. It is a term to describe a repetitive phenomenon. It does not mean the phenomenon happens only twice in all of eternity any more then summer on earth happens only twice or sunrise happens only twice.

For the love of god THE BIBLE IS NOT FACTUAL!

Verse 40... Talks about one being taken and another left. That phenomenon happens daily on this planet. It is talking about death. People are taken by the "grim reaper" every day and others are left. Death happens daily. The old pass away daily and are replaced by the new. The hour that no one expects is the hour of their death, yet some expect it and are prepared to die. others are not. That day is a different day for each individual. No man can claim the whole world will end on any particular day because the end is a different day for all as Life goes on in those who are left. The same principle applies to those who are left as to those who have already "been taken" or passed away. The cycle continues for ever.
The coming and going of Christ ( the SPIRIT of LIFE) is constant. It is not delayed and has never been delayed at any time. LIFE is always coming again and again and again while at the same time passing away again and again and again. Every generation experiences it, has experienced it in the past and will experience it in future.

It is not about a supernatural man appearing in the sky in literal clouds. It is about the Spirit of LIFE and TRUTH always being on earth and not being recognized by those who are led astray by false Christs and false doctrines.
The blind cannot see the Spirit of LIFE even though it is all around them and in them at all times. Christ is the SPIRIT of LIFE. the SPIRIT of TRUTH, not a supernatural man who will appear in literal clouds one day at some unknown time in the unknown future.

"THIS GENERATION" which sees the return of sunrise and the return of summer also sees the return of Christ ( LIFE) daily. That applies to ALL generations for ALL eternity not just to one generation.

If that makes no sense to you, and you do not understand it, please explain why it makes no sense and what you do not comprehend about it.
PGA
Posts: 4,032
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2014 6:12:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/13/2014 9:28:48 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/13/2014 5:21:29 PM, PGA wrote:
Not the end of the world, the end of the age. The age was the age of the Old Covenant.

Then why are so many people still under the law of the old covenant?

Because they chose to be.

Do you think that you have the ability to keep the law? If so then what was the purpose of Christ's sacrifice?
Do you think that Jesus was unable to fulfill every letter of the Law. That was part of the reason His lineage is traced back through Jewish heritage. They were the ones who made a covenant with God that they could not keep. He met this covenant on behalf of those who would believe in Him.
Do you think Christ was unable to save His people? Over and over the NT states that the Law was unable to save anyone by its sacrifices. It pointed to Christ as the greatest sacrifice.

Why did Jesus preach that they still had to keep the commandments?

Because the Old Covenant existed until AD 70 (Annanicole believes AD30-33 or at Pentecost and there is merit in this belief but I still favor God is speaking of AD 70).

I have stuck my neck on the butchers block in defending AD 70 rather than AD 30-33 because I believe Scripture supports this position over AD 30-33.

* Wars and rumors of wars.
* Famines, earthquakes, and basically natural disasters.
* Humans hating and betraying one another.
* False prophets and false Christs deceiving people.

All fulfilled in the 1st century. Many are recorded in the NT.

They are still all relevant today and still being fulfilled continually. They are cyclic and always on earth all the time in various places. It will be the same in the future with all these things still happening on our planet.

I think people read this into the Scriptures rather than correctly interpret God's word.

http://christeternalchristianchurch.com...

I could show from Scripture and from early historical writings that all these signs were prevalent.

To understand the 'coming of Christ one has to understand what the term meant to the 1st century Jewish audience that it was addressed to.

If you think you know what the term meant to the 1st century Jewish audience, why don't you share that information?

http://www.eschatology.org...

I would suggest you read any article that catches you eye in the 39 on the Lord's coming below:

http://www.eschatology.org...

Here is a link that discusses the comparison between Zecariah and the Olivet Discourse:

http://www.eschatology.org...

Zechariah 14 Olivet Discourse
Siege of Jerusalem, vs. 1-2 Siege of Jerusalem, Mt. 24:2f
Day of the Lord, vs. 1, 5 Coming of the Son of Man, 24:30-31
Coming with his holy ones, vs. 5 Coming with his angels, 24:31
Jews led away captive into the nations, vs. 2Jews led away captive into the nations, Luke 21:24
Flight from judgment, vs. 5 Flight from judgment, vs. 15f
Day known only to the Lord, vs. 7 Day known only to the Lord, vs. 36

The parallel between the passages can hardly be doubted.

http://www.eschatology.org...

Zechariah Revelation
Coming of the Lord with His Saints, 14:5Coming of the Lord with His Saints 14:14f; 19:11f
Earthquake at the Day of the Lord, 14:4-5 Earthquake at the Day of the Lord, 6:12-17; 11:13; 16
Earthquake and Coming of the Lord
at siege of Jerusalem, 14:1-5 Earthquake and Coming of the Lord at judgment of city "where the Lord was crucified" 11:8-13
Time of light, 14:7 Time of light, 21:23
River of living waters, 14:8 River of life, 22:1
The Lord shall be King over the earth, 14:9The Lord is King of the earth, 11:15; 19:16; 22:3
Exaltation of Zion, 14:10 Exaltation of Zion, 14, 21
No more curse, curse removed, 14:11 No more curse, curse removed, 22:3
Nations coming to New Jerusalem with
their wealth, 14:14 Nations coming to New Jerusalem with their wealth, 21:24
Nations observing Feast of Tabernacles,
14:16-20 Nations observing Feast of Tabernacles, 7:9-17* (vs. 17 also has the fountain of living waters)

http://www.eschatology.org...

How do you know everyone in that audience even saw it the same way if they don't all see it the same way today?

I'm not saying everyone saw it the same way. That is why there were so many false prophets and false Christ's recorded at that time. By audience relevance I'm bringing your attention to whom the Author is addressing directly. Yes, I believe we also are being addressed and we learn from the examples given, but to miss the primary audience is to open Scripture up to any interpretation.

You need to remember that the first century audience did not think alike and did not all agree with each other any more than all of todays audience agrees with each other or sees things the same way.

Sure, I understand that, but if I am going to communicate to you and you to me then we need to understand each others intent or we completely miss what is being said. Green can have a multiple of meanings and we derive the correct meaning from the context.

'Skyangel, my grass has started to turn green from the spring thaw' means something entirely different from 'Anna, I'm green with envy over your ability to understand NT Greek' and you understand and pick up the difference or you fail to understand what I'm saying or who I'm speaking to. In one sentence I'm speaking of literal green grass and in the other I'm not because I'm speaking figuratively. I'm also speaking to two different people.

You note the difference when I point it out yet so far you do not apply the same standard to God's word. God's word interprets itself when we study to show ourselves approved. God does not speak with a forked tongue. If He did then everyone would be justified in supplying any old meaning to suit their pleasure.

Peter
PGA
Posts: 4,032
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2014 6:42:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/13/2014 9:28:48 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 3/13/2014 5:21:29 PM, PGA wrote:
Verse 32 says "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Which generation is it talking about? ....etc.

The generation spoken of is the 1st century one that Jesus is addressing.

Did they see the return of the Son of Man and the end of the world in your opinion?

Yes, they saw the return of the Son of Man and the heaven and earth that they knew (the Old Covenant) passed away but I believe the Bible never speaks of the end of time or end of the world in the way I think many interpret it.

"THIS GENERATION" which sees the return of sunrise and the return of summer also sees the return of Christ ( LIFE) daily. That applies to ALL generations for ALL eternity not just to one generation.

No it does not. You are twisting the meaning to suit your own ideas.

What exactly are you saying does NOT happen regularly and does NOT apply to all generations?
One being taken and another left?
Summer'
Sunrise?
Life?
Death?
Rumors of wars?
People betraying one another?
How exactly am I twisting scripture? I see what I see and there is nothing twisted about it. It is perfectly logical and realistic. No fantasy or magic or false hopes of the future involved.

What I'm saying is 'this generation' does not mean 'that generation' or 'that generation.' It means the generation to whom Christ is addressing. In Matthew 24:3-34 He is speaking to His disciples. In Matthew 23:36 He is still speaking to that 1st century generation, in specific the Pharisees and teachers of the Law. Ever time He uses the phrase 'this generation' it addresses 1st century people. You read into the text a different meaning that it does not convey because you try to see things in a spiritual light. If you want to see them in a spiritual light then understand who is being addressed and in relation to what (see Hebrews 3-4).

You try to add meaning that is not found in the text. You read it in instead of taking it out of the text.

If that makes no sense to you, and you do not understand it, please explain why it makes no sense and what you do not comprehend about it.

Jesus using the term 'this generation' a number of times in the gospels. They apply to a 1st century audience in their context. You want to switch the meaning to apply to your 'spiritual' mind. You make Scripture say whatever you want it to say, thus you do not get God's intended meaning. You are trying to promote your own agenda.

If they apply ONLY to the first century audience in your opinion is scripture irrelevant for todays audience?

Scripture is always relevant. It teaches us about God, His holiness and purity, man's sin and what the Son has done to make man right with God. God has shown us through history and prophecy that He is who He says He is. He does not lie.


Why are todays audience still waiting for prophecies to be fulfilled if the 1st century audience saw their fulfillment?

I believe because they misinterpret Scripture and try to make everything prophetic apply to today.

Religions are promoting their own agenda when they preach false doctrines. Claiming I do not get "Gods intended meaning" is a very subjective claim.

Do you think you get "Gods intended meaning" more than anyone else or has your religion brainwashed you into believing only your religion "gets Gods intended meaning?"

That is debatable about whether I get God's meaning, even if I have been studying it for over 30 years it means nothing if I don't correctly understand what God is saying. I'm as open to correction as the next person. That is why God left us His word, so that He is proven true when He is rightly understood. If you think I am wrong then show me/make your case through Scripture.

What agenda do you think I am trying to promote?

That the words of Scripture can mean two entirely different things to two people and both of them be right, that every man/woman makes up the truth according to the way they see things.

Peter
Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2014 7:02:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/14/2014 7:01:24 PM, Sswdwm wrote:
I am God, prove me wrong.

Ignore this post pls, I thought this was the 6-10,000 year old thread.

Sorry
Resolved: the Zombie Apocalypse Will Happen
http://www.debate.org...

The most basic living cell was Intelligently Designed:
http://www.debate.org...

God most likely exists:
http://www.debate.org...
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/14/2014 11:07:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/14/2014 4:31:39 PM, Cooldudebro wrote:

For the love of god THE BIBLE IS NOT FACTUAL!

It does however contain many factual principles, morals and lessons about life and human nature which can be applied to all generations of humans for all eternity.