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What do you think of Ken Ham and AIG?

Pitbull15
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3/18/2014 3:30:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Like all Christian apologists, he and Answers in Genesis made some good points, but I don't agree with everything he says.

How about you? Do you think he's a visionary or a cult leader?
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Iredia
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3/18/2014 3:49:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
A bit of both I'd say but that's not important to me. I think his method, and by extension that of creationists in general isn't helpful. There's a need for them to put aside their petty interests and join to focus their efforts on taking down a theory that is very baseless. They simply have to be pragmatic about laying the case for why the scientific evidence suggests life is created, or better yet (given the baggage associated with 'creation') intelligently designed. That's my take on AIG.
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Lordgrae
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3/19/2014 6:54:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 3:30:09 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
Like all Christian apologists, he and Answers in Genesis made some good points, but I don't agree with everything he says.

How about you? Do you think he's a visionary or a cult leader?

Are those the only two options? I just think that he is unwilling to change his ancient beliefs. This is something that he admitted during his debate with Bill Nye. When asked 'what, if anything, would change your mind?" he responded 'nothing', while Bill Nye said 'evidence'. (Not exact quotes)
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RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,382
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3/19/2014 7:38:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 3:30:09 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
Like all Christian apologists, he and Answers in Genesis made some good points, but I don't agree with everything he says.

How about you? Do you think he's a visionary or a cult leader?
I definitely don't think he is a cult leader. He believes and teaches the basic tenets of Christianity, so I would say he's sound scripture wise. As far as a visionary, I would say so. That is, I think he has a vision.

It looks like from other sources that people are concerned about his ability to debate with evolutionists. However, people have turned to Christ just by hearing the basic of basic truths of the Gospel from the least to the highest educated. Who knows? The term "Goddidit" may cause Bill Nye one day get on his knees, repent, and become a born again believer......as opposed to being "owned" in some debate.
bulproof
Posts: 25,288
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3/19/2014 7:49:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/19/2014 7:38:41 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 3/18/2014 3:30:09 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
Like all Christian apologists, he and Answers in Genesis made some good points, but I don't agree with everything he says.

How about you? Do you think he's a visionary or a cult leader?
I definitely don't think he is a cult leader. He believes and teaches the basic tenets of Christianity, so I would say he's sound scripture wise. As far as a visionary, I would say so. That is, I think he has a vision.

It looks like from other sources that people are concerned about his ability to debate with evolutionists. However, people have turned to Christ just by hearing the basic of basic truths of the Gospel from the least to the highest educated. Who knows? The term "Goddidit" may cause Bill Nye one day get on his knees, repent, and become a born again believer......as opposed to being "owned" in some debate.

Why do you equate christianity with "scripture"?
SNP1
Posts: 2,404
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3/19/2014 8:50:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 3:30:09 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
Like all Christian apologists, he and Answers in Genesis made some good points, but I don't agree with everything he says.

How about you? Do you think he's a visionary or a cult leader?

He is an ignorant cult leader that I think is either in it for the money or that he is trying to ruin the education of children. Ken Ham is full of logical fallacies, and he fails to understand that his "observational science" and "historical science" are not real types of science, but that "historical science" is still observational. Ken Ham and AIG are two plagues on mankind that need to be taken care of, especially after my young cousin told me about how he teaches to children.
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Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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3/19/2014 9:02:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/19/2014 8:50:04 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/18/2014 3:30:09 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
Like all Christian apologists, he and Answers in Genesis made some good points, but I don't agree with everything he says.

How about you? Do you think he's a visionary or a cult leader?

He is an ignorant cult leader that I think is either in it for the money or that he is trying to ruin the education of children. Ken Ham is full of logical fallacies, and he fails to understand that his "observational science" and "historical science" are not real types of science, but that "historical science" is still observational. Ken Ham and AIG are two plagues on mankind that need to be taken care of, especially after my young cousin told me about how he teaches to children.

I don't really follow Ken Ham as much as a lot of other people do. Care to elaborate? And how are we supposed to take care of them?
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
SNP1
Posts: 2,404
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3/19/2014 9:09:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/19/2014 9:02:07 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/19/2014 8:50:04 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/18/2014 3:30:09 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
Like all Christian apologists, he and Answers in Genesis made some good points, but I don't agree with everything he says.

How about you? Do you think he's a visionary or a cult leader?

He is an ignorant cult leader that I think is either in it for the money or that he is trying to ruin the education of children. Ken Ham is full of logical fallacies, and he fails to understand that his "observational science" and "historical science" are not real types of science, but that "historical science" is still observational. Ken Ham and AIG are two plagues on mankind that need to be taken care of, especially after my young cousin told me about how he teaches to children.

I don't really follow Ken Ham as much as a lot of other people do. Care to elaborate? And how are we supposed to take care of them?

I do not know, but he is definitely a cult leader. He finds out what the group of kids likes, and uses that and twists it to teach his dogma while telling them that science is fake. I do not know how to take care of him, but he should not be teaching people, especially children.
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#WarOnDDO
Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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3/19/2014 9:12:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/19/2014 9:09:40 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:02:07 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/19/2014 8:50:04 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/18/2014 3:30:09 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
Like all Christian apologists, he and Answers in Genesis made some good points, but I don't agree with everything he says.

How about you? Do you think he's a visionary or a cult leader?

He is an ignorant cult leader that I think is either in it for the money or that he is trying to ruin the education of children. Ken Ham is full of logical fallacies, and he fails to understand that his "observational science" and "historical science" are not real types of science, but that "historical science" is still observational. Ken Ham and AIG are two plagues on mankind that need to be taken care of, especially after my young cousin told me about how he teaches to children.

I don't really follow Ken Ham as much as a lot of other people do. Care to elaborate? And how are we supposed to take care of them?

I do not know, but he is definitely a cult leader. He finds out what the group of kids likes, and uses that and twists it to teach his dogma while telling them that science is fake. I do not know how to take care of him, but he should not be teaching people, especially children.

Interesting... But I don't remember him teaching anything implying science is fake. I do remember him saying something about differentiating between observational and historical science, though, and not being able to observe the age of the earth.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
SNP1
Posts: 2,404
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3/19/2014 9:55:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/19/2014 9:12:22 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:09:40 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:02:07 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/19/2014 8:50:04 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/18/2014 3:30:09 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
Like all Christian apologists, he and Answers in Genesis made some good points, but I don't agree with everything he says.

How about you? Do you think he's a visionary or a cult leader?

He is an ignorant cult leader that I think is either in it for the money or that he is trying to ruin the education of children. Ken Ham is full of logical fallacies, and he fails to understand that his "observational science" and "historical science" are not real types of science, but that "historical science" is still observational. Ken Ham and AIG are two plagues on mankind that need to be taken care of, especially after my young cousin told me about how he teaches to children.

I don't really follow Ken Ham as much as a lot of other people do. Care to elaborate? And how are we supposed to take care of them?

I do not know, but he is definitely a cult leader. He finds out what the group of kids likes, and uses that and twists it to teach his dogma while telling them that science is fake. I do not know how to take care of him, but he should not be teaching people, especially children.

Interesting... But I don't remember him teaching anything implying science is fake. I do remember him saying something about differentiating between observational and historical science, though, and not being able to observe the age of the earth.

I found out about him teaching science if fake from my younger cousin. She went to the museum to one of his "preachings" to educate children. He said that if any science tells you something that is different from the Bible that science is wrong. He says that you can never know about events in the past because you were not there. I can get along with Christians, one of my close friends is a Christian, but Ken Ham is a disgrace to both humanity and to Christianity.
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Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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3/19/2014 3:52:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/19/2014 9:55:33 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:12:22 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:09:40 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:02:07 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/19/2014 8:50:04 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/18/2014 3:30:09 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
Like all Christian apologists, he and Answers in Genesis made some good points, but I don't agree with everything he says.

How about you? Do you think he's a visionary or a cult leader?

He is an ignorant cult leader that I think is either in it for the money or that he is trying to ruin the education of children. Ken Ham is full of logical fallacies, and he fails to understand that his "observational science" and "historical science" are not real types of science, but that "historical science" is still observational. Ken Ham and AIG are two plagues on mankind that need to be taken care of, especially after my young cousin told me about how he teaches to children.

I don't really follow Ken Ham as much as a lot of other people do. Care to elaborate? And how are we supposed to take care of them?

I do not know, but he is definitely a cult leader. He finds out what the group of kids likes, and uses that and twists it to teach his dogma while telling them that science is fake. I do not know how to take care of him, but he should not be teaching people, especially children.

Interesting... But I don't remember him teaching anything implying science is fake. I do remember him saying something about differentiating between observational and historical science, though, and not being able to observe the age of the earth.

I found out about him teaching science if fake from my younger cousin. She went to the museum to one of his "preachings" to educate children. He said that if any science tells you something that is different from the Bible that science is wrong. He says that you can never know about events in the past because you were not there. I can get along with Christians, one of my close friends is a Christian, but Ken Ham is a disgrace to both humanity and to Christianity.

What... If we followed that logic we'd still be stuck in the stone age. According to his logic, Abraham Lincoln never existed unless you were there and shook his hand.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
SNP1
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3/19/2014 4:38:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/19/2014 3:52:24 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:55:33 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:12:22 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:09:40 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:02:07 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/19/2014 8:50:04 AM, SNP1 wrote:
At 3/18/2014 3:30:09 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
Like all Christian apologists, he and Answers in Genesis made some good points, but I don't agree with everything he says.

How about you? Do you think he's a visionary or a cult leader?

He is an ignorant cult leader that I think is either in it for the money or that he is trying to ruin the education of children. Ken Ham is full of logical fallacies, and he fails to understand that his "observational science" and "historical science" are not real types of science, but that "historical science" is still observational. Ken Ham and AIG are two plagues on mankind that need to be taken care of, especially after my young cousin told me about how he teaches to children.

I don't really follow Ken Ham as much as a lot of other people do. Care to elaborate? And how are we supposed to take care of them?

I do not know, but he is definitely a cult leader. He finds out what the group of kids likes, and uses that and twists it to teach his dogma while telling them that science is fake. I do not know how to take care of him, but he should not be teaching people, especially children.

Interesting... But I don't remember him teaching anything implying science is fake. I do remember him saying something about differentiating between observational and historical science, though, and not being able to observe the age of the earth.

I found out about him teaching science if fake from my younger cousin. She went to the museum to one of his "preachings" to educate children. He said that if any science tells you something that is different from the Bible that science is wrong. He says that you can never know about events in the past because you were not there. I can get along with Christians, one of my close friends is a Christian, but Ken Ham is a disgrace to both humanity and to Christianity.

What... If we followed that logic we'd still be stuck in the stone age. According to his logic, Abraham Lincoln never existed unless you were there and shook his hand.

According to his logic, correct. But he also says that you should believe the Bible, but I want to know why. Was he there to witness the events? Did he see the people write the stuff down? I already know he would avoid that question with a strawman or a red herring fallacy.
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Skepticalone
Posts: 6,131
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3/19/2014 7:40:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Ken Ham is militant theist, which is a completely unreasonable and logically unsound position to hold. AIG is Ham's baby born of tenuous Biblical interpretations and over the top dogma. I was supposed to be honest, right? :)
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monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/19/2014 10:24:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/18/2014 3:30:09 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
Like all Christian apologists, he and Answers in Genesis made some good points, but I don't agree with everything he says.

How about you? Do you think he's a visionary or a cult leader?

Batsh=t crazy.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,382
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3/20/2014 10:43:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/19/2014 9:55:33 AM, SNP1 wrote:


I found out about him teaching science if fake from my younger cousin. She went to the museum to one of his "preachings" to educate children. He said that if any science tells you something that is different from the Bible that science is wrong. He says that you can never know about events in the past because you were not there. I can get along with Christians, one of my close friends is a Christian, but Ken Ham is a disgrace to both humanity and to Christianity.
I'm pretty sure that what he said was more along the lines of "if any scientist(s) tells you something that is different from the Bible, that/those scientist(s) is/are wrong".

And I agree. An example would be the number of early evolutionist scientists who claimed that various non-white races were lower on the evolutionary scale. Keep in mind, these were not strictly evolutionist laymen making these claims, but actual scientists. I don't think that all of the evolutionist scientists of that time believed that (I'm guessing there). But even still, that would be a great example of not believing the claims of a certain number of scientists.

If the vast majority, say, 95% of scientist members of the NAS were to claim that evidence now shows that some races are less human than whites, I would reject that claim. I wouldn't be rejecting science....just the claim by scientists no matter how staggering the evidence may be claimed to be. And that claim, of course is anti-Biblical.

And of course we should keep in mind that Ken Ham was speaking in the Creation Museum, and not a public classroom.
Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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3/20/2014 7:03:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/20/2014 10:43:05 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:55:33 AM, SNP1 wrote:


I found out about him teaching science if fake from my younger cousin. She went to the museum to one of his "preachings" to educate children. He said that if any science tells you something that is different from the Bible that science is wrong. He says that you can never know about events in the past because you were not there. I can get along with Christians, one of my close friends is a Christian, but Ken Ham is a disgrace to both humanity and to Christianity.
I'm pretty sure that what he said was more along the lines of "if any scientist(s) tells you something that is different from the Bible, that/those scientist(s) is/are wrong".

And I agree. An example would be the number of early evolutionist scientists who claimed that various non-white races were lower on the evolutionary scale. Keep in mind, these were not strictly evolutionist laymen making these claims, but actual scientists. I don't think that all of the evolutionist scientists of that time believed that (I'm guessing there). But even still, that would be a great example of not believing the claims of a certain number of scientists.

If the vast majority, say, 95% of scientist members of the NAS were to claim that evidence now shows that some races are less human than whites, I would reject that claim. I wouldn't be rejecting science....just the claim by scientists no matter how staggering the evidence may be claimed to be. And that claim, of course is anti-Biblical.

And of course we should keep in mind that Ken Ham was speaking in the Creation Museum, and not a public classroom.

I don't believe Ken Ham's great in science issues, but judging by the theological content of the AIG website, he and his staff excel in answering Bible questions and demolishing supposed Bible discrepancies. That website is one of the main reasons why I'm still faithful today and it answered nearly all questions I had concerning the Bible itself and its supposed flaws when I was younger. So basically, it's brought me back from the brink time and time again. Young earth creationism is only part of what AIG's trying to get across.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,382
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3/21/2014 9:21:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/20/2014 7:03:54 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 3/20/2014 10:43:05 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:55:33 AM, SNP1 wrote:


I found out about him teaching science if fake from my younger cousin. She went to the museum to one of his "preachings" to educate children. He said that if any science tells you something that is different from the Bible that science is wrong. He says that you can never know about events in the past because you were not there. I can get along with Christians, one of my close friends is a Christian, but Ken Ham is a disgrace to both humanity and to Christianity.
I'm pretty sure that what he said was more along the lines of "if any scientist(s) tells you something that is different from the Bible, that/those scientist(s) is/are wrong".

And I agree. An example would be the number of early evolutionist scientists who claimed that various non-white races were lower on the evolutionary scale. Keep in mind, these were not strictly evolutionist laymen making these claims, but actual scientists. I don't think that all of the evolutionist scientists of that time believed that (I'm guessing there). But even still, that would be a great example of not believing the claims of a certain number of scientists.

If the vast majority, say, 95% of scientist members of the NAS were to claim that evidence now shows that some races are less human than whites, I would reject that claim. I wouldn't be rejecting science....just the claim by scientists no matter how staggering the evidence may be claimed to be. And that claim, of course is anti-Biblical.

And of course we should keep in mind that Ken Ham was speaking in the Creation Museum, and not a public classroom.


I don't believe Ken Ham's great in science issues, but judging by the theological content of the AIG website, he and his staff excel in answering Bible questions and demolishing supposed Bible discrepancies. That website is one of the main reasons why I'm still faithful today and it answered nearly all questions I had concerning the Bible itself and its supposed flaws when I was younger. So basically, it's brought me back from the brink time and time again. Young earth creationism is only part of what AIG's trying to get across.
I would say that you're absolutely correct. I would say that evangelism plays a big part in their ministry. That, and equipping the Body Of Christ. I believe just as you do that they are doctrinally sound.

As far as not excelling in science, you might be right....but I don't really know for sure. There are certainly Creationist Scientists that are excellent in science issues (and of course I do include young earth creationists). And more of their energy may go directly into their fields of research since they may not have the type of ministry Ken Ham has. And it could be that debating evolutionists about the age of the earth may not be the best idea in that it may be enough just presenting Creationism and ID without reference to the earth's age.

But again, I don't really know for sure. But AIG as far as I can detect are spot on doctrinally.