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Suicide and Murder

nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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1/26/2010 11:49:50 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
From my understanding, according to Christianity, suicide and murder are "wrong". So it just makes me wonder a few things...

1) Why is death considered a bad thing?

2) Why does suicide in the name of God seem to be okay?

--And to add to that, why is specifically public suicide in the name of God okay, but private suicide in the name of God is not heard of? (in the Bible) If someone can find an example of a private suicide deemed okay in the Bible, please share.

3) If you live by the Bible, and are a true Christian, then why should you fear death if heaven is awaiting you? Why not fast-track it?

4) If I was to murder said Christian, wouldn't I be doing him a favour by fast-tracking him to said heaven?

I would like to see everyone's opinions on this topic of Death, and whether you personally believe death is a good, bad, or neutral thing.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/26/2010 12:54:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/26/2010 11:49:50 AM, TulleKrazy wrote:
From my understanding, according to Christianity, suicide and murder are "wrong". So it just makes me wonder a few things...

1) Why is death considered a bad thing?

No matter how many Christian pundits come up and tell you that "death means life in Christ," they aren't being truthful when attaching a positive note to death. The entire purpose of having life-after-death mythos is because of the human want to live forever. So death is always a bad thing, for whomever you talk to that is truly sane of mind.

Now, in the case of murder, its obvious why its wrong; you, a simple human, have taken the life of another human, possibly for no justifiable reason. In religious terms, you can frame it in the light of "only God can choose when another dies" - though this runs into several problems once you get into it. From a biological perspective, its obvious why murder is wrong - you're limiting your social base, progenitor status, and your ability to survive yourself.

2) Why does suicide in the name of God seem to be okay?

--And to add to that, why is specifically public suicide in the name of God okay, but private suicide in the name of God is not heard of? (in the Bible) If someone can find an example of a private suicide deemed okay in the Bible, please share.

I don't recall where in the Bible it says that suicide in the name of God is sanctioned. Martyrdom might be suggested, but there is a big difference between simply committing suicide, and becoming a martyr, in terms of existential impact.

3) If you live by the Bible, and are a true Christian, then why should you fear death if heaven is awaiting you? Why not fast-track it?

Because it might seem like you are attempting to curb God's plan for your life, and trying to jump the queue. However, a more sane reason is that most adherents of any belief are still afraid to die, maybe because their faith in the afterlife isn't complete, or because, well, dying sucks. Only the truly fundamental, who have already resigned themselves to a pitiful existence, will attempt to "fast-track" it.

4) If I was to murder said Christian, wouldn't I be doing him a favour by fast-tracking him to said heaven?

Same answer as before: you would be routing God's plan.

I would like to see everyone's opinions on this topic of Death, and whether you personally believe death is a good, bad, or neutral thing.

Death is, biologically, a neutral event. It happens to every living thing, no matter the point in time. From our viewpoint though, death is indeed a negative - for because we have the ability to recognize the worth of our own lives, the prospect of the end is inherently negative, because it ends that worth. This is why people try to create afterlife mythos, or do works of art with their name emblazoned over it - to try and live past their own death, and retain that worth.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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1/26/2010 1:09:47 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/26/2010 11:49:50 AM, TulleKrazy wrote:
From my understanding, according to Christianity, suicide and murder are "wrong". So it just makes me wonder a few things...

According to 'Christianity' and according to the Bible can be separate matters. :P

There are instances of suicide and assisted suicide in the OT.

http://www.biblegateway.com...

http://bible.cc...

In the NT Paul apparently wrestles with the issue of suicide.

http://www.biblegateway.com...

I can think of a couple more and I'll find the verses if you want. The position of the Church against suicide is generally based upon life as sacred, death is a tool of Satan, death subverting God's plan.
Metallicker
Posts: 44
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1/27/2010 2:49:20 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/26/2010 11:49:50 AM, TulleKrazy wrote:
From my understanding, according to Christianity, suicide and murder are "wrong". So it just makes me wonder a few things...

1) Why is death considered a bad thing?

2) Why does suicide in the name of God seem to be okay?

--And to add to that, why is specifically public suicide in the name of God okay, but private suicide in the name of God is not heard of? (in the Bible) If someone can find an example of a private suicide deemed okay in the Bible, please share.

3) If you live by the Bible, and are a true Christian, then why should you fear death if heaven is awaiting you? Why not fast-track it?

4) If I was to murder said Christian, wouldn't I be doing him a favour by fast-tracking him to said heaven?

I would like to see everyone's opinions on this topic of Death, and whether you personally believe death is a good, bad, or neutral thing.

I think these questions are best answered by the one, the only, Mister George Carlin
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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1/27/2010 3:09:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/26/2010 11:49:50 AM, TulleKrazy wrote:
From my understanding, according to Christianity, suicide and murder are "wrong". So it just makes me wonder a few things...

1) Why is death considered a bad thing?

Death is not considered in itself bad BUT to take someone elses life, to rob a spouse or children of their loved one is, of course, wrong.

2) Why does suicide in the name of God seem to be okay?

It's not and there are no biblical examples of it.. Even Sampson was already condemned to die so he simply decided to take a few with Him.

--And to add to that, why is specifically public suicide in the name of God okay, but private suicide in the name of God is not heard of? (in the Bible) If someone can find an example of a private suicide deemed okay in the Bible, please share.

It isn't. Muslims are prepare to kill and to kill themselves for their 'god' but we are prepared to be killed for the name of Jesus Christ; there's a WORLD of difference.

3) If you live by the Bible, and are a true Christian, then why should you fear death if heaven is awaiting you? Why not fast-track it?

You are pretty much repeating yourself now.. I do not fear death but as for the time and day that is in my Lords hands.

4) If I was to murder said Christian, wouldn't I be doing him a favour by fast-tracking him to said heaven?

But you yourself would be a murderer..

I would like to see everyone's opinions on this topic of Death, and whether you personally believe death is a good, bad, or neutral thing.

Everyone is born spiritually dead; divorced from God.. when we receive the Good News of Jesus Christ crucified for us.. then we are 'born-again' in the Spirit and re-enter Life.. Jesus IS the Life.
The Cross.. the Cross.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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1/27/2010 8:36:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/27/2010 3:09:39 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Death is not considered in itself bad BUT to take someone elses life, to rob a spouse or children of their loved one is, of course, wrong.
So what Moses did in all those wars, was wrong?

It isn't. Muslims are prepare to kill and to kill themselves for their 'god' but we are prepared to be killed for the name of Jesus Christ; there's a WORLD of difference.
So if God asked you to kill for him, you would refuse God?

But you yourself would be a murderer..
Just like Moses and pretty much every other person in the old testament?
nickthengineer
Posts: 251
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1/27/2010 9:38:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/26/2010 11:49:50 AM, TulleKrazy wrote:
From my understanding, according to Christianity, suicide and murder are "wrong". So it just makes me wonder a few things...

1) Why is death considered a bad thing?

The Bible says that man is created in God's image, and it is thus a direct sin against God to take away what God created in His own image.

2) Why does suicide in the name of God seem to be okay?

--And to add to that, why is specifically public suicide in the name of God okay, but private suicide in the name of God is not heard of? (in the Bible) If someone can find an example of a private suicide deemed okay in the Bible, please share.

Private or public, suicide is NEVER deemed okay in the Bible. Of course there are suicide bombers who claim to be doing the will of God, but they cannot point to anything in the Bible when they make this claim. It is nothing more than a greedy distortion based on vengeance, not an actual representation of God, Christianity, or the Bible.

3) If you live by the Bible, and are a true Christian, then why should you fear death if heaven is awaiting you? Why not fast-track it?

You are right, Christians should not fear death and most don't (at least to some degree). But because the Bible tells us that God has work for us to do here on earth, it is a sin to try to "take the easy way out" and try to go straight to Heaven on our own timetable. It isn't that Christians are afraid to die (albeit fear of impending death is a natural response), but rather that we recognize the sacredness of human life (created in the image of God) and that God has a purpose for us here.

4) If I was to murder said Christian, wouldn't I be doing him a favour by fast-tracking him to said heaven?

Technically you could think of it in that manner, but you are grossly skewing what should be the point of this discussion. Let not man take away what God in His image has created. There is work to do here for the benefit of those who do not yet believe.

I would like to see everyone's opinions on this topic of Death, and whether you personally believe death is a good, bad, or neutral thing.

Death is eternally bad for an unbeliever. I won't call it good for a believer as that again would skew the whole point. The death of a believer has the potential to be eternally bad for the unbelievers that that believer may have had the opportunity to witness to had his life not been taken away.
I evolved from stupid. (http://www.debate.org...)
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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1/27/2010 2:20:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Hey everyone, thank you all for taking the time to respond.

I don't recall where in the Bible it says that suicide in the name of God is sanctioned.

I would consider Jesus' death in itself to be a suicide/murder. God sent his only son to die for our sins. It was an intentional death. Also there are several examples where people are willing to die for God--they just don't die because their faith saves them. Shadrack, Meshach, and Abednego willingly went into a furnace, based on a faith that God would save them... if you were to take that story literally that would just be suicide.

Martyrdom might be suggested, but there is a big difference between simply committing suicide, and becoming a martyr, in terms of existential impact.

Why though? Why is a certain kind of suicide okay? Many people have certain things that they'd be willing to die for. Is it okay to die to save your child? Is it okay to die so your family can collect insurance? When is it okay? If it's okay to die in the name of God why is it not okay to die so that you can be with God?

Because it might seem like you are attempting to curb God's plan for your life, and trying to jump the queue.

But what if God's plan is for you to die? Is it okay to seek medical help? Who draws the magic line between prolonging life and screwing up God's plan?

@Metalliker--- "God is one of the leading causes of death." hahahaha

Death is not considered in itself bad BUT to take someone elses life, to rob a spouse or children of their loved one is, of course, wrong.

Of course. But we can remedy the situation by killing the entire family. Then they'd all be in heaven together.

2) Why does suicide in the name of God seem to be okay?

It's not and there are no biblical examples of it

Jesus is one. I know there are martyrs in the Bible, I just can't think of specific examples right now.

It isn't. Muslims are prepare to kill and to kill themselves for their 'god' but we are prepared to be killed for the name of Jesus Christ; there's a WORLD of difference.

If you're willing to die in the name of Jesus Christ then that's passive suicide. What makes your suicide okay?

I do not fear death but as for the time and day that is in my Lords hands.

So if you were diagnosed with cancer or AIDS, would you seek treatment or let it be in God's hands to do with what he sees fit?

But you yourself would be a murderer..

Thank God I don't believe in God. Lucky for you I am intrinsically motivated to not do "wrong" and I don't need the threat of an invisible man and Hell to dissuade me.

The Bible says that man is created in God's image, and it is thus a direct sin against God to take away what God created in His own image.

What if my husband became a vegetable and they had him on life support. Whether I keep him on life support or take him off life support I'm playing God. What am I supposed to do?

Private or public, suicide is NEVER deemed okay in the Bible. Of course there are suicide bombers who claim to be doing the will of God, but they cannot point to anything in the Bible when they make this claim. It is nothing more than a greedy distortion based on vengeance, not an actual representation of God, Christianity, or the Bible.

Since everyone keeps saying that, I went and Googled it.

Martyrs in the Bible, including, as I mentioned before, Jesus.

"Stephen

"Stephen is often regarded as the first Christian martyr, although some place him as the second, or third - after John The Baptist and even Jesus Christ Himself.

"And as they were stoning Stephen, he prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." And he knelt down and cried with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." And when he had said this, he fell asleep." (Acts 7:54-60 RSV)

"And when the blood of Stephen Thy witness [martyr in KJV and NIV] was shed, I also was standing by and approving, and keeping the garments of those who killed him." (Acts 22:20 RSV)"

Also

"Using the Revised Standard Version (RSV), we read of them in Revelation 11:3-13:

"And I will grant My two witnesses power to prophesy for one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."
"These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands which stand before The Lord of the earth. And if any one would harm them, fire pours out from their mouth and consumes their foes; if any one would harm them, thus he is doomed to be killed."

"They have power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to smite the earth with every plague, as often as they desire."

"And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit will make war upon them and conquer them and kill them, and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which is allegorically called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. For three days and a half men from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb, and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth.""

Taken from http://www.keyway.ca...
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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1/27/2010 2:21:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I apologize for the late reply, I'm a full-time student and work part-time so I literally shouldn't even be online right now lol
the-good-teacher
Posts: 444
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8/20/2010 11:46:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/26/2010 11:49:50 AM, TulleKrazy wrote:
From my understanding, according to Christianity, suicide and murder are "wrong". So it just makes me wonder a few things...

1) Why is death considered a bad thing?

Reply - > > Death is not considered "A bad thing"
==============
2) Why does suicide in the name of God seem to be okay?

Reply - > Suicide is not "okay", if a Christian commits suicide, they keep their salvation, but loose out on their crowns/rewards
==============
--And to add to that, why is specifically public suicide in the name of God okay, but private suicide in the name of God is not heard of? (in the Bible) If someone can find an example of a private suicide deemed okay in the Bible, please share.

Reply - > > Judas killed himself after his betrayal, this was a sign of his regret, Peter on the other hand after denying Christ 3 times then repented
==============
3) If you live by the Bible, and are a true Christian, then why should you fear death if heaven is awaiting you? Why not fast-track it?

Reply - > > this is answered above.
==============
4) If I was to murder said Christian, wouldn't I be doing him a favour by fast-tracking him to said heaven?

Reply > > The only thing you would be doing is committing a sin, we are not in the position to Judge who is Israel and who is not..
Matt 10:28, And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
==============
I would like to see everyone opinions on this topic of Death, and whether you personally believe death is a good, bad, or neutral thing.

Reply - > > Our life is in the hands of God.
Matt 10:29, Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

-----------------------------------o O---^5 --- ><))))>