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MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/19/2014 9:28:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Paul certainly said that it is, and no doubt would says so even more strongly if he had lived in a tme when confusion over what teh bible actually says was as rife as it is today.

There are si many different faiths, claiming to be Christian, with so many different ideas of what scripture says, and all can find passages in scripture to "prove" what they say.

That makes deciding very difficult and it is no wonder that so many give up on the quest.

That in itself is bad enough, but why is there such a confusion over what should be unique and unchanging, God's word.

Well one explanation, and I believe the most reasonable one is the influence of God's enemy, Satan, who is currently confined to the earth awaiting the execution of the sentence against him.

If, as I firmly believe, there is a God, and he did indeed leave us the bible as his word, should it not be completely harmonious throughout?

I believe that it is despite what mankind has done to it, with or without the influence of Satan.

I also believe that whilst God has allowed mankind to mess with it in line with his instruction to us at Revelation 22:11, he has more than sufficient power to provide sufficient protection for his word that it is not completely impossible to understand, albeit with some difficulty.

That is why I believe, that James was inspired to write as he did at James 1:5-8, that those short of Wisdom should petition God for it, in full trust that hewill provide it ti enable them to understand his word with dili
gent study.

I also believe that this is what holy spirit is used for, in line with what Jesus stated at:

John 14:16
16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever,

John 14:26
26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.

Another reason I believe that spirit to be essential to understanding scripture is that at 1 Corinthians 2:10 "For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God" which tells me that God's spirit searches through the "deep things of God" or the hard to understand things which elsewhere he calls the solid food, and compares it to the milk of the word that inexperienced students get. and that God communicates them to us, through his so, which can also only be by holy spirit.

So is holy spirit necessary in order to understand scripture properly?

I believe, from what scriptures, such as the ones I have shown you here, and many others, that it is not only necessary, but vital, especially for the "deep things" the "things hard to understand" in scripture.

I know there are others on here who do not believe that, but that is most likely because they aren't getting spirit help, or they rely on themselves against all scriptural advice, or even because, once again against all scriptural advice, they rely on the words of "well regarded men", and here I quote not from scripture but from one of Merriam-Webster's definitions of Princes and Nobles. And that is something scripture warns us very carefully against doing.
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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7/25/2014 10:48:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/19/2014 9:28:00 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Paul certainly said that it is, and no doubt would says so even more strongly if he had lived in a tme when confusion over what teh bible actually says was as rife as it is today.

There are si many different faiths, claiming to be Christian, with so many different ideas of what scripture says, and all can find passages in scripture to "prove" what they say.

That makes deciding very difficult and it is no wonder that so many give up on the quest.

That in itself is bad enough, but why is there such a confusion over what should be unique and unchanging, God's word.

Well one explanation, and I believe the most reasonable one is the influence of God's enemy, Satan, who is currently confined to the earth awaiting the execution of the sentence against him.

If, as I firmly believe, there is a God, and he did indeed leave us the bible as his word, should it not be completely harmonious throughout?

I believe that it is despite what mankind has done to it, with or without the influence of Satan.

I also believe that whilst God has allowed mankind to mess with it in line with his instruction to us at Revelation 22:11, he has more than sufficient power to provide sufficient protection for his word that it is not completely impossible to understand, albeit with some difficulty.

That is why I believe, that James was inspired to write as he did at James 1:5-8, that those short of Wisdom should petition God for it, in full trust that hewill provide it ti enable them to understand his word with dili
gent study.

I also believe that this is what holy spirit is used for, in line with what Jesus stated at:

John 14:16
16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever,

John 14:26
26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.

Another reason I believe that spirit to be essential to understanding scripture is that at 1 Corinthians 2:10 "For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God" which tells me that God's spirit searches through the "deep things of God" or the hard to understand things which elsewhere he calls the solid food, and compares it to the milk of the word that inexperienced students get. and that God communicates them to us, through his so, which can also only be by holy spirit.

So is holy spirit necessary in order to understand scripture properly?

I believe, from what scriptures, such as the ones I have shown you here, and many others, that it is not only necessary, but vital, especially for the "deep things" the "things hard to understand" in scripture.

I know there are others on here who do not believe that, but that is most likely because they aren't getting spirit help, or they rely on themselves against all scriptural advice, or even because, once again against all scriptural advice, they rely on the words of "well regarded men", and here I quote not from scripture but from one of Merriam-Webster's definitions of Princes and Nobles. And that is something scripture warns us very carefully against doing.

Very true, that's why the Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of truth because his role is to point us to Jesus. The reason why people fail to understand the Bible is because they're minds are puffed up with carnality. It takes harmony with the Holy Spirit to truly understand God's truth in the world.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/25/2014 11:57:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 10:48:10 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:28:00 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Paul certainly said that it is, and no doubt would says so even more strongly if he had lived in a tme when confusion over what teh bible actually says was as rife as it is today.

There are si many different faiths, claiming to be Christian, with so many different ideas of what scripture says, and all can find passages in scripture to "prove" what they say.

That makes deciding very difficult and it is no wonder that so many give up on the quest.

That in itself is bad enough, but why is there such a confusion over what should be unique and unchanging, God's word.

Well one explanation, and I believe the most reasonable one is the influence of God's enemy, Satan, who is currently confined to the earth awaiting the execution of the sentence against him.

If, as I firmly believe, there is a God, and he did indeed leave us the bible as his word, should it not be completely harmonious throughout?

I believe that it is despite what mankind has done to it, with or without the influence of Satan.

I also believe that whilst God has allowed mankind to mess with it in line with his instruction to us at Revelation 22:11, he has more than sufficient power to provide sufficient protection for his word that it is not completely impossible to understand, albeit with some difficulty.

That is why I believe, that James was inspired to write as he did at James 1:5-8, that those short of Wisdom should petition God for it, in full trust that hewill provide it ti enable them to understand his word with dili
gent study.

I also believe that this is what holy spirit is used for, in line with what Jesus stated at:

John 14:16
16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever,

John 14:26
26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.

Another reason I believe that spirit to be essential to understanding scripture is that at 1 Corinthians 2:10 "For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God" which tells me that God's spirit searches through the "deep things of God" or the hard to understand things which elsewhere he calls the solid food, and compares it to the milk of the word that inexperienced students get. and that God communicates them to us, through his so, which can also only be by holy spirit.

So is holy spirit necessary in order to understand scripture properly?

I believe, from what scriptures, such as the ones I have shown you here, and many others, that it is not only necessary, but vital, especially for the "deep things" the "things hard to understand" in scripture.

I know there are others on here who do not believe that, but that is most likely because they aren't getting spirit help, or they rely on themselves against all scriptural advice, or even because, once again against all scriptural advice, they rely on the words of "well regarded men", and here I quote not from scripture but from one of Merriam-Webster's definitions of Princes and Nobles. And that is something scripture warns us very carefully against doing.

Very true, that's why the Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of truth because his role is to point us to Jesus. The reason why people fail to understand the Bible is because they're minds are puffed up with carnality. It takes harmony with the Holy Spirit to truly understand God's truth in the world.

It's amazing how Christians completely ignore the fact that there are more than 38,000 officially recognized Christian denominations, (to say nothing of the thousands which are not officially recognized), and they're all based on different interpretations of the Bible. If you gain understanding of the Bible from the Holy Spirit, he has to be the most confused spirit in all of existence.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/25/2014 11:57:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 10:48:10 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:28:00 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Paul certainly said that it is, and no doubt would says so even more strongly if he had lived in a tme when confusion over what teh bible actually says was as rife as it is today.

There are si many different faiths, claiming to be Christian, with so many different ideas of what scripture says, and all can find passages in scripture to "prove" what they say.

That makes deciding very difficult and it is no wonder that so many give up on the quest.

That in itself is bad enough, but why is there such a confusion over what should be unique and unchanging, God's word.

Well one explanation, and I believe the most reasonable one is the influence of God's enemy, Satan, who is currently confined to the earth awaiting the execution of the sentence against him.

If, as I firmly believe, there is a God, and he did indeed leave us the bible as his word, should it not be completely harmonious throughout?

I believe that it is despite what mankind has done to it, with or without the influence of Satan.

I also believe that whilst God has allowed mankind to mess with it in line with his instruction to us at Revelation 22:11, he has more than sufficient power to provide sufficient protection for his word that it is not completely impossible to understand, albeit with some difficulty.

That is why I believe, that James was inspired to write as he did at James 1:5-8, that those short of Wisdom should petition God for it, in full trust that hewill provide it ti enable them to understand his word with dili
gent study.

I also believe that this is what holy spirit is used for, in line with what Jesus stated at:

John 14:16
16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever,

John 14:26
26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.

Another reason I believe that spirit to be essential to understanding scripture is that at 1 Corinthians 2:10 "For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God" which tells me that God's spirit searches through the "deep things of God" or the hard to understand things which elsewhere he calls the solid food, and compares it to the milk of the word that inexperienced students get. and that God communicates them to us, through his so, which can also only be by holy spirit.

So is holy spirit necessary in order to understand scripture properly?

I believe, from what scriptures, such as the ones I have shown you here, and many others, that it is not only necessary, but vital, especially for the "deep things" the "things hard to understand" in scripture.

I know there are others on here who do not believe that, but that is most likely because they aren't getting spirit help, or they rely on themselves against all scriptural advice, or even because, once again against all scriptural advice, they rely on the words of "well regarded men", and here I quote not from scripture but from one of Merriam-Webster's definitions of Princes and Nobles. And that is something scripture warns us very carefully against doing.

Very true, that's why the Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of truth because his role is to point us to Jesus.

.... and how does He do this? My answer: through the word, either written or spoken (of course nowadays the spoken word would be based upon the written word), and solely through the word.

The reason why people fail to understand the Bible is because they're minds are puffed up with carnality.

Perhaps, but the main reason is lack of effort.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/25/2014 2:13:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/19/2014 9:28:00 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Paul certainly said that it is, and no doubt would says so even more strongly if he had lived in a tme when confusion over what teh bible actually says was as rife as it is today.

There are si many different faiths, claiming to be Christian, with so many different ideas of what scripture says, and all can find passages in scripture to "prove" what they say.

That makes deciding very difficult and it is no wonder that so many give up on the quest.

That in itself is bad enough, but why is there such a confusion over what should be unique and unchanging, God's word.

Well one explanation, and I believe the most reasonable one is the influence of God's enemy, Satan, who is currently confined to the earth awaiting the execution of the sentence against him.

If, as I firmly believe, there is a God, and he did indeed leave us the bible as his word, should it not be completely harmonious throughout?

I believe that it is despite what mankind has done to it, with or without the influence of Satan.

I also believe that whilst God has allowed mankind to mess with it in line with his instruction to us at Revelation 22:11, he has more than sufficient power to provide sufficient protection for his word that it is not completely impossible to understand, albeit with some difficulty.

That is why I believe, that James was inspired to write as he did at James 1:5-8, that those short of Wisdom should petition God for it, in full trust that hewill provide it ti enable them to understand his word with dili
gent study.

I also believe that this is what holy spirit is used for, in line with what Jesus stated at:

John 14:16
16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever,

John 14:26
26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.

Another reason I believe that spirit to be essential to understanding scripture is that at 1 Corinthians 2:10 "For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God" which tells me that God's spirit searches through the "deep things of God" or the hard to understand things which elsewhere he calls the solid food, and compares it to the milk of the word that inexperienced students get. and that God communicates them to us, through his so, which can also only be by holy spirit.

So is holy spirit necessary in order to understand scripture properly?

I believe, from what scriptures, such as the ones I have shown you here, and many others, that it is not only necessary, but vital, especially for the "deep things" the "things hard to understand" in scripture.

I know there are others on here who do not believe that, but that is most likely because they aren't getting spirit help, or they rely on themselves against all scriptural advice, or even because, once again against all scriptural advice, they rely on the words of "well regarded men", and here I quote not from scripture but from one of Merriam-Webster's definitions of Princes and Nobles. And that is something scripture warns us very carefully against doing.

Yes, everything you said here is absolutely correct.

In fact, it is impossible to believe God without the Spirit.

Now, it IS very possible for a person who is reasonably well-educated, with good reading comprehension, to understand the doctrines of Scripture.

In fact, there are many "modern-day Pharisees", who are "unregenerate" men (they do not have the Spirit), who are very intelligent and can grasp doctrine very well.

But because they do not have the Spirit, they err in the most basic and fundamental point--which is THIS:
ALL of the Scriptures are about JESUS CHRIST.

They don't believe that.
And they don't see it.
And so, their "faith" is really dead.

The fact is, Christ is either ALL, or he's NOTHING AT ALL.

If one has the Spirit, one can see, and one delights in the fact, that Jesus Christ is the subject of all the Scriptures.

He's on every single page, including the Old Testament, either directly, or in figures and types.

Now, these brilliant but unregenerate men may assent to the fact that the Old Testament does have some types and figures of Jesus Christ.

But they are unable, without the true understanding that the Spirit gives, to believe that it's ALL about Christ.

And so, their natural ability to understand concepts from the Bible does not help them, because they don't see CHRIST!

Therefore, their "faith" is not really faith. It's just a carnal (fleshly) understanding.
And it's all abstract, and dead, and cold, to them.

Faith in Christ is a living, and vital, experience.
The one who has faith in Christ sees Christ in all the Scriptures.
And he doesn't study Christ like one studies biology or mathematics.
He LOVES Christ, and he can't LIVE without him.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/25/2014 3:35:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 2:13:28 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:28:00 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Paul certainly said that it is, and no doubt would says so even more strongly if he had lived in a tme when confusion over what teh bible actually says was as rife as it is today.

There are si many different faiths, claiming to be Christian, with so many different ideas of what scripture says, and all can find passages in scripture to "prove" what they say.

That makes deciding very difficult and it is no wonder that so many give up on the quest.

That in itself is bad enough, but why is there such a confusion over what should be unique and unchanging, God's word.

Well one explanation, and I believe the most reasonable one is the influence of God's enemy, Satan, who is currently confined to the earth awaiting the execution of the sentence against him.

If, as I firmly believe, there is a God, and he did indeed leave us the bible as his word, should it not be completely harmonious throughout?

I believe that it is despite what mankind has done to it, with or without the influence of Satan.

I also believe that whilst God has allowed mankind to mess with it in line with his instruction to us at Revelation 22:11, he has more than sufficient power to provide sufficient protection for his word that it is not completely impossible to understand, albeit with some difficulty.

That is why I believe, that James was inspired to write as he did at James 1:5-8, that those short of Wisdom should petition God for it, in full trust that hewill provide it ti enable them to understand his word with dili
gent study.

I also believe that this is what holy spirit is used for, in line with what Jesus stated at:

John 14:16
16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever,

John 14:26
26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.

Another reason I believe that spirit to be essential to understanding scripture is that at 1 Corinthians 2:10 "For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God" which tells me that God's spirit searches through the "deep things of God" or the hard to understand things which elsewhere he calls the solid food, and compares it to the milk of the word that inexperienced students get. and that God communicates them to us, through his so, which can also only be by holy spirit.

So is holy spirit necessary in order to understand scripture properly?

I believe, from what scriptures, such as the ones I have shown you here, and many others, that it is not only necessary, but vital, especially for the "deep things" the "things hard to understand" in scripture.

I know there are others on here who do not believe that, but that is most likely because they aren't getting spirit help, or they rely on themselves against all scriptural advice, or even because, once again against all scriptural advice, they rely on the words of "well regarded men", and here I quote not from scripture but from one of Merriam-Webster's definitions of Princes and Nobles. And that is something scripture warns us very carefully against doing.

Yes, everything you said here is absolutely correct.

In fact, it is impossible to believe God without the Spirit.

The Spirit speaks through the word. You are correct that it is impossible to ascertain the will of God in the absence of the written/spoken word. The trouble is that you believe the word of God is weak and impotent, ineffectual, lacking - unless God does something in addition to it! As bad as that sounds, the theories that you embrace mandate such a belief. Guaranteed.

Now, it IS very possible for a person who is reasonably well-educated, with good reading comprehension, to understand the doctrines of Scripture.

Certainly so.

In fact, there are many "modern-day Pharisees", who are "unregenerate" men (they do not have the Spirit), who are very intelligent and can grasp doctrine very well.

That's not what a Pharisee was or did. Who told you that?

But because they do not have the Spirit, they err in the most basic and fundamental point--which is THIS:
ALL of the Scriptures are about JESUS CHRIST.

No I'm afraid they aren't. Some scriptures have nothing to do with Jesus Christ.

They don't believe that.
And they don't see it.
And so, their "faith" is really dead.

Faith without works is what defines "dead faith" - not whether or not one believes "ALL of the Scriptures are about Jesus Christ." In fact, I doubt anybody on here knows what you are talking about, really.

"Now Paul and his company set sail from Paphos, and came to Perga in Pamphylia: and John departed from them and returned to Jerusalem." (Acts 13: 13)

That passage is not about Jesus Christ. It doesn't even mention Jesus Christ. It doesn't allude to Jesus. It is simply mentioning the travels of Paul and John.


The fact is, Christ is either ALL, or he's NOTHING AT ALL.

If one has the Spirit, one can see, and one delights in the fact, that Jesus Christ is the subject of all the Scriptures.

He's on every single page, including the Old Testament, either directly, or in figures and types.

On every page, or in every passage?

Now, these brilliant but unregenerate men may assent to the fact that the Old Testament does have some types and figures of Jesus Christ.

But they are unable, without the true understanding that the Spirit gives, to believe that it's ALL about Christ.

So you claim a supernatural understanding of plain words, eh? I think that's the bottom line. You have the Scriptures, but either they are so poorly written or you are too dumb, so you require extra-added supernatural "help" and "illumination". Why, that's the same nonsense that the Jehovah's Witness, MadCornishBiker, claims. That's what Ellen White, the founder of Adventism, claimed. That's what every false teacher claims.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/25/2014 6:06:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 3:35:54 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 2:13:28 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:28:00 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Paul certainly said that it is, and no doubt would says so even more strongly if he had lived in a tme when confusion over what teh bible actually says was as rife as it is today.

There are si many different faiths, claiming to be Christian, with so many different ideas of what scripture says, and all can find passages in scripture to "prove" what they say.

That makes deciding very difficult and it is no wonder that so many give up on the quest.

That in itself is bad enough, but why is there such a confusion over what should be unique and unchanging, God's word.

Well one explanation, and I believe the most reasonable one is the influence of God's enemy, Satan, who is currently confined to the earth awaiting the execution of the sentence against him.

If, as I firmly believe, there is a God, and he did indeed leave us the bible as his word, should it not be completely harmonious throughout?

I believe that it is despite what mankind has done to it, with or without the influence of Satan.

I also believe that whilst God has allowed mankind to mess with it in line with his instruction to us at Revelation 22:11, he has more than sufficient power to provide sufficient protection for his word that it is not completely impossible to understand, albeit with some difficulty.

That is why I believe, that James was inspired to write as he did at James 1:5-8, that those short of Wisdom should petition God for it, in full trust that hewill provide it ti enable them to understand his word with dili
gent study.

I also believe that this is what holy spirit is used for, in line with what Jesus stated at:

John 14:16
16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever,

John 14:26
26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.

Another reason I believe that spirit to be essential to understanding scripture is that at 1 Corinthians 2:10 "For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God" which tells me that God's spirit searches through the "deep things of God" or the hard to understand things which elsewhere he calls the solid food, and compares it to the milk of the word that inexperienced students get. and that God communicates them to us, through his so, which can also only be by holy spirit.

So is holy spirit necessary in order to understand scripture properly?

I believe, from what scriptures, such as the ones I have shown you here, and many others, that it is not only necessary, but vital, especially for the "deep things" the "things hard to understand" in scripture.

I know there are others on here who do not believe that, but that is most likely because they aren't getting spirit help, or they rely on themselves against all scriptural advice, or even because, once again against all scriptural advice, they rely on the words of "well regarded men", and here I quote not from scripture but from one of Merriam-Webster's definitions of Princes and Nobles. And that is something scripture warns us very carefully against doing.

Yes, everything you said here is absolutely correct.

In fact, it is impossible to believe God without the Spirit.

The Spirit speaks through the word. You are correct that it is impossible to ascertain the will of God in the absence of the written/spoken word. The trouble is that you believe the word of God is weak and impotent, ineffectual, lacking - unless God does something in addition to it! As bad as that sounds, the theories that you embrace mandate such a belief. Guaranteed.

Now, it IS very possible for a person who is reasonably well-educated, with good reading comprehension, to understand the doctrines of Scripture.

Certainly so.

In fact, there are many "modern-day Pharisees", who are "unregenerate" men (they do not have the Spirit), who are very intelligent and can grasp doctrine very well.

That's not what a Pharisee was or did. Who told you that?

But because they do not have the Spirit, they err in the most basic and fundamental point--which is THIS:
ALL of the Scriptures are about JESUS CHRIST.

No I'm afraid they aren't. Some scriptures have nothing to do with Jesus Christ.

They don't believe that.
And they don't see it.
And so, their "faith" is really dead.

Faith without works is what defines "dead faith" - not whether or not one believes "ALL of the Scriptures are about Jesus Christ." In fact, I doubt anybody on here knows what you are talking about, really.

"Now Paul and his company set sail from Paphos, and came to Perga in Pamphylia: and John departed from them and returned to Jerusalem." (Acts 13: 13)

That passage is not about Jesus Christ. It doesn't even mention Jesus Christ. It doesn't allude to Jesus. It is simply mentioning the travels of Paul and John.


The fact is, Christ is either ALL, or he's NOTHING AT ALL.

If one has the Spirit, one can see, and one delights in the fact, that Jesus Christ is the subject of all the Scriptures.

He's on every single page, including the Old Testament, either directly, or in figures and types.

On every page, or in every passage?

Now, these brilliant but unregenerate men may assent to the fact that the Old Testament does have some types and figures of Jesus Christ.

But they are unable, without the true understanding that the Spirit gives, to believe that it's ALL about Christ.

So you claim a supernatural understanding of plain words, eh? I think that's the bottom line. You have the Scriptures, but either they are so poorly written or you are too dumb, so you require extra-added supernatural "help" and "illumination". Why, that's the same nonsense that the Jehovah's Witness, MadCornishBiker, claims. That's what Ellen White, the founder of Adventism, claimed. That's what every false teacher claims.

First of all, you are way too literal.
And you are exactly the kind of person I'm talking about.
You don't understand the point of the Scriptures.

They are not history lessons, they are about redemption through Christ.
They all have to DO with the Gospel of Christ.

How were Paul's and John's travels related to the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
They were traveling to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ!

Now, that's extremely obvious. I'm not sure how you missed that.

But if you missed that, then it's no wonder you don't see Christ in the Old Testament.

The fact is, you don't understand the Scriptures at all.
And you are totally oblivious to that fact.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/25/2014 6:58:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 6:06:43 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 3:35:54 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 2:13:28 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:28:00 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Paul certainly said that it is, and no doubt would says so even more strongly if he had lived in a tme when confusion over what teh bible actually says was as rife as it is today.

There are si many different faiths, claiming to be Christian, with so many different ideas of what scripture says, and all can find passages in scripture to "prove" what they say.

That makes deciding very difficult and it is no wonder that so many give up on the quest.

That in itself is bad enough, but why is there such a confusion over what should be unique and unchanging, God's word.



I believe that it is despite what mankind has done to it, with or without the influence of Satan.

I also believe that whilst God has allowed mankind to mess with it in line with his instruction to us at Revelation 22:11, he has more than sufficient power to provide sufficient protection for his word that it is not completely impossible to understand, albeit with some difficulty.


gent study.

I also believe that this is what holy spirit is used for, in line with what Jesus stated at:

John 14:16
16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever,

John 14:26
26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.

Another reason I believe that spirit to be essential to understanding scripture is that at 1 Corinthians 2:10 "For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God" which tells me that God's spirit searches through the "deep things of God" or the hard to understand things which elsewhere he calls the solid food, and compares it to the milk of the word that inexperienced students get. and that God communicates them to us, through his so, which can also only be by holy spirit.

So is holy spirit necessary in order to understand scripture properly?

I believe, from what scriptures, such as the ones I have shown you here, and many others, that it is not only necessary, but vital, especially for the "deep things" the "things hard to understand" in scripture.

I know there are others on here who do not believe that, but that is most likely because they aren't getting spirit help, or they rely on themselves against all scriptural advice, or even because, once again against all scriptural advice, they rely on the words of "well regarded men", and here I quote not from scripture but from one of Merriam-Webster's definitions of Princes and Nobles. And that is something scripture warns us very carefully against doing.

Yes, everything you said here is absolutely correct.

In fact, it is impossible to believe God without the Spirit.

The Spirit speaks through the word. You are correct that it is impossible to ascertain the will of God in the absence of the written/spoken word. The trouble is that you believe the word of God is weak and impotent, ineffectual, lacking - unless God does something in addition to it! As bad as that sounds, the theories that you embrace mandate such a belief. Guaranteed.

Now, it IS very possible for a person who is reasonably well-educated, with good reading comprehension, to understand the doctrines of Scripture.

Certainly so.

In fact, there are many "modern-day Pharisees", who are "unregenerate" men (they do not have the Spirit), who are very intelligent and can grasp doctrine very well.

That's not what a Pharisee was or did. Who told you that?

But because they do not have the Spirit, they err in the most basic and fundamental point--which is THIS:
ALL of the Scriptures are about JESUS CHRIST.

No I'm afraid they aren't. Some scriptures have nothing to do with Jesus Christ.

They don't believe that.
And they don't see it.
And so, their "faith" is really dead.

Faith without works is what defines "dead faith" - not whether or not one believes "ALL of the Scriptures are about Jesus Christ." In fact, I doubt anybody on here knows what you are talking about, really.

"Now Paul and his company set sail from Paphos, and came to Perga in Pamphylia: and John departed from them and returned to Jerusalem." (Acts 13: 13)

That passage is not about Jesus Christ. It doesn't even mention Jesus Christ. It doesn't allude to Jesus. It is simply mentioning the travels of Paul and John.


The fact is, Christ is either ALL, or he's NOTHING AT ALL.

If one has the Spirit, one can see, and one delights in the fact, that Jesus Christ is the subject of all the Scriptures.

He's on every single page, including the Old Testament, either directly, or in figures and types.

On every page, or in every passage?

Now, these brilliant but unregenerate men may assent to the fact that the Old Testament does have some types and figures of Jesus Christ.

But they are unable, without the true understanding that the Spirit gives, to believe that it's ALL about Christ.

So you claim a supernatural understanding of plain words, eh? I think that's the bottom line. You have the Scriptures, but either they are so poorly written or you are too dumb, so you require extra-added supernatural "help" and "illumination". Why, that's the same nonsense that the Jehovah's Witness, MadCornishBiker, claims. That's what Ellen White, the founder of Adventism, claimed. That's what every false teacher claims.

First of all, you are way too literal.
And you are exactly the kind of person I'm talking about.
You don't understand the point of the Scriptures.

According to what authority?

They are not history lessons, they are about redemption through Christ.
They all have to DO with the Gospel of Christ.

Only in the most vague and metaphorical sense.

How were Paul's and John's travels related to the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
They were traveling to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ!

I didn't that their travels weren't related to the preaching of the gospel. You are simply begging the question. EVERY passage in the Bible does not have to do with Jesus Christ.

Now, that's extremely obvious. I'm not sure how you missed that.

But if you missed that, then it's no wonder you don't see Christ in the Old Testament.

I didn't say that I didn't see Christ in the OT. I said that one may not - and will not -see Christ in every passage.

The fact is, you don't understand the Scriptures at all.
And you are totally oblivious to that fact.

This, from a fella who thinks he "sees Christ" in passages such as

"And when these days were fulfilled, the king made a feast unto all the people that were present in Shushan the palace, both great and small, seven days, in the court of the garden of the king's palace." (Esther 1: 5)

Where's the reference to Christ? Do you see Him in there somewhere? Invoke some supernatural "Spirit guidance" and tell us.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sovereigngracereigns
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7/25/2014 10:22:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 6:58:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 6:06:43 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:

The fact is, you don't understand the Scriptures at all.
And you are totally oblivious to that fact.

This, from a fella who thinks he "sees Christ" in passages such as

"And when these days were fulfilled, the king made a feast unto all the people that were present in Shushan the palace, both great and small, seven days, in the court of the garden of the king's palace." (Esther 1: 5)

Where's the reference to Christ? Do you see Him in there somewhere? Invoke some supernatural "Spirit guidance" and tell us.

Are you serious?

You really don't know what that has to do with Christ and the Gospel?

Esther is a "type" of Christ!

A "Biblical type", by the way, is something from the Old Testament that symbolically pre-figures or illustrates Christ, or an aspect of Christ.

From Wikipedia:
"Typology in Christian theology and Biblical exegesis is a doctrine or theory concerning the predictive relationship of the Old Testament to the New Testament. Events, persons or statements in the Old Testament are seen as types pre-figuring or superseded by antitypes, events or aspects of Christ or his revelation described in the New Testament. For example Jonah may be seen as the type of Christ in that he appeared to have emerged from the whale's belly and from death. In the fullest version of the theory of typology, the whole purpose of the Old Testament is viewed as merely the provision of types for Christ, the antitype, or fulfillment."

Now, Esther is a "type" of Christ. And so, everything in the book of Esther has to do with Christ.

And, no offense, but you seem to be extremely literal in your thinking, so you may have some trouble with this.

But please keep in mind that a "type" is only a figure of an "anti-type," so they're not going to be exactly alike in every way.

Esther typifies Christ in his office as the Mediator and Advocate for his people.
And it would benefit you to find out more about it.

But you have proven to me from past interactions, that it's not worth my time to give you lengthy explanations of things.

So, if you want to know more about "types", and specifically about Esther, use Google. I'm not doing it for you.

If you're too lazy to research it, that's not my problem. You're welcome to remain in ignorance.

I'm just telling you the fact that the Scriptures all point to Christ. And Esther is certainly no exception.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/25/2014 10:31:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 10:22:56 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 6:58:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 6:06:43 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:

The fact is, you don't understand the Scriptures at all.
And you are totally oblivious to that fact.

This, from a fella who thinks he "sees Christ" in passages such as

"And when these days were fulfilled, the king made a feast unto all the people that were present in Shushan the palace, both great and small, seven days, in the court of the garden of the king's palace." (Esther 1: 5)

Where's the reference to Christ? Do you see Him in there somewhere? Invoke some supernatural "Spirit guidance" and tell us.

Are you serious?

You really don't know what that has to do with Christ and the Gospel?

Esther is a "type" of Christ!

A "Biblical type", by the way, is something from the Old Testament that symbolically pre-figures or illustrates Christ, or an aspect of Christ.

From Wikipedia:
"Typology in Christian theology and Biblical exegesis is a doctrine or theory concerning the predictive relationship of the Old Testament to the New Testament. Events, persons or statements in the Old Testament are seen as types pre-figuring or superseded by antitypes, events or aspects of Christ or his revelation described in the New Testament. For example Jonah may be seen as the type of Christ in that he appeared to have emerged from the whale's belly and from death. In the fullest version of the theory of typology, the whole purpose of the Old Testament is viewed as merely the provision of types for Christ, the antitype, or fulfillment."

Now, Esther is a "type" of Christ. And so, everything in the book of Esther has to do with Christ.

And, no offense, but you seem to be extremely literal in your thinking, so you may have some trouble with this.

But please keep in mind that a "type" is only a figure of an "anti-type," so they're not going to be exactly alike in every way.

Esther typifies Christ in his office as the Mediator and Advocate for his people.
And it would benefit you to find out more about it.

But you have proven to me from past interactions, that it's not worth my time to give you lengthy explanations of things.

So, if you want to know more about "types", and specifically about Esther, use Google. I'm not doing it for you.

Does the passage mention Esther?

I have no need in Googling it, as I never questioned whether certain OT figures were figures of Christ. The NT states as much. Do you have a passage that confirms your assertion that Esther is a type of Christ? If not, is this simply your assertion - an assertion that no inspired writer ever confirmed?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/25/2014 10:40:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 10:31:22 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:22:56 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 6:58:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 6:06:43 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:

The fact is, you don't understand the Scriptures at all.
And you are totally oblivious to that fact.

This, from a fella who thinks he "sees Christ" in passages such as

"And when these days were fulfilled, the king made a feast unto all the people that were present in Shushan the palace, both great and small, seven days, in the court of the garden of the king's palace." (Esther 1: 5)

Where's the reference to Christ? Do you see Him in there somewhere? Invoke some supernatural "Spirit guidance" and tell us.

Are you serious?

You really don't know what that has to do with Christ and the Gospel?

Esther is a "type" of Christ!

A "Biblical type", by the way, is something from the Old Testament that symbolically pre-figures or illustrates Christ, or an aspect of Christ.

From Wikipedia:
"Typology in Christian theology and Biblical exegesis is a doctrine or theory concerning the predictive relationship of the Old Testament to the New Testament. Events, persons or statements in the Old Testament are seen as types pre-figuring or superseded by antitypes, events or aspects of Christ or his revelation described in the New Testament. For example Jonah may be seen as the type of Christ in that he appeared to have emerged from the whale's belly and from death. In the fullest version of the theory of typology, the whole purpose of the Old Testament is viewed as merely the provision of types for Christ, the antitype, or fulfillment."

Now, Esther is a "type" of Christ. And so, everything in the book of Esther has to do with Christ.

And, no offense, but you seem to be extremely literal in your thinking, so you may have some trouble with this.

But please keep in mind that a "type" is only a figure of an "anti-type," so they're not going to be exactly alike in every way.

Esther typifies Christ in his office as the Mediator and Advocate for his people.
And it would benefit you to find out more about it.

But you have proven to me from past interactions, that it's not worth my time to give you lengthy explanations of things.

So, if you want to know more about "types", and specifically about Esther, use Google. I'm not doing it for you.

Does the passage mention Esther?

I have no need in Googling it, as I never questioned whether certain OT figures were figures of Christ. The NT states as much. Do you have a passage that confirms your assertion that Esther is a type of Christ? If not, is this simply your assertion - an assertion that no inspired writer ever confirmed?

As I said, you are too literal-minded, you don't understand the Scriptures, and you clearly don't WANT to understand them.

So it is not worth the time to give lengthy explanations to you. If you want to remain ignorant, so be it.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/25/2014 10:49:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 10:40:16 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:31:22 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:22:56 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 6:58:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 6:06:43 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:

The fact is, you don't understand the Scriptures at all.
And you are totally oblivious to that fact.

This, from a fella who thinks he "sees Christ" in passages such as

"And when these days were fulfilled, the king made a feast unto all the people that were present in Shushan the palace, both great and small, seven days, in the court of the garden of the king's palace." (Esther 1: 5)

Where's the reference to Christ? Do you see Him in there somewhere? Invoke some supernatural "Spirit guidance" and tell us.

Are you serious?

You really don't know what that has to do with Christ and the Gospel?

Esther is a "type" of Christ!

A "Biblical type", by the way, is something from the Old Testament that symbolically pre-figures or illustrates Christ, or an aspect of Christ.

From Wikipedia:
"Typology in Christian theology and Biblical exegesis is a doctrine or theory concerning the predictive relationship of the Old Testament to the New Testament. Events, persons or statements in the Old Testament are seen as types pre-figuring or superseded by antitypes, events or aspects of Christ or his revelation described in the New Testament. For example Jonah may be seen as the type of Christ in that he appeared to have emerged from the whale's belly and from death. In the fullest version of the theory of typology, the whole purpose of the Old Testament is viewed as merely the provision of types for Christ, the antitype, or fulfillment."

Now, Esther is a "type" of Christ. And so, everything in the book of Esther has to do with Christ.

And, no offense, but you seem to be extremely literal in your thinking, so you may have some trouble with this.

But please keep in mind that a "type" is only a figure of an "anti-type," so they're not going to be exactly alike in every way.

Esther typifies Christ in his office as the Mediator and Advocate for his people.
And it would benefit you to find out more about it.

But you have proven to me from past interactions, that it's not worth my time to give you lengthy explanations of things.

So, if you want to know more about "types", and specifically about Esther, use Google. I'm not doing it for you.

Does the passage mention Esther?

I have no need in Googling it, as I never questioned whether certain OT figures were figures of Christ. The NT states as much. Do you have a passage that confirms your assertion that Esther is a type of Christ? If not, is this simply your assertion - an assertion that no inspired writer ever confirmed?

As I said, you are too literal-minded, you don't understand the Scriptures, and you clearly don't WANT to understand them.

So it is not worth the time to give lengthy explanations to you. If you want to remain ignorant, so be it.

Sighs. I take it that no inspired writer EVER said that Esther was a type or figure of Christ. True, some of the professional "type-hunters" claims it - but then again, they claim lots of stuff. The only way we'd know for sure whether Adam or Moses or Esther was a type of the Christ would be if an inspired writer informed us. In the case of Adam and Moses, we know for sure. As far as the myriad of other great Biblical characters, we do not know.

I didn't ask for a "lengthy explanation", ya tard. I asked for "a passage that confirms your assertion that Esther is a type of Christ."

No such passage was forthcoming - none will be. And that's that.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/25/2014 11:01:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 10:49:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:40:16 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:31:22 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:22:56 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 6:58:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 6:06:43 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:

The fact is, you don't understand the Scriptures at all.
And you are totally oblivious to that fact.

This, from a fella who thinks he "sees Christ" in passages such as

"And when these days were fulfilled, the king made a feast unto all the people that were present in Shushan the palace, both great and small, seven days, in the court of the garden of the king's palace." (Esther 1: 5)

Where's the reference to Christ? Do you see Him in there somewhere? Invoke some supernatural "Spirit guidance" and tell us.

Are you serious?

You really don't know what that has to do with Christ and the Gospel?

Esther is a "type" of Christ!

A "Biblical type", by the way, is something from the Old Testament that symbolically pre-figures or illustrates Christ, or an aspect of Christ.

From Wikipedia:
"Typology in Christian theology and Biblical exegesis is a doctrine or theory concerning the predictive relationship of the Old Testament to the New Testament. Events, persons or statements in the Old Testament are seen as types pre-figuring or superseded by antitypes, events or aspects of Christ or his revelation described in the New Testament. For example Jonah may be seen as the type of Christ in that he appeared to have emerged from the whale's belly and from death. In the fullest version of the theory of typology, the whole purpose of the Old Testament is viewed as merely the provision of types for Christ, the antitype, or fulfillment."

Now, Esther is a "type" of Christ. And so, everything in the book of Esther has to do with Christ.

And, no offense, but you seem to be extremely literal in your thinking, so you may have some trouble with this.

But please keep in mind that a "type" is only a figure of an "anti-type," so they're not going to be exactly alike in every way.

Esther typifies Christ in his office as the Mediator and Advocate for his people.
And it would benefit you to find out more about it.

But you have proven to me from past interactions, that it's not worth my time to give you lengthy explanations of things.

So, if you want to know more about "types", and specifically about Esther, use Google. I'm not doing it for you.

Does the passage mention Esther?

I have no need in Googling it, as I never questioned whether certain OT figures were figures of Christ. The NT states as much. Do you have a passage that confirms your assertion that Esther is a type of Christ? If not, is this simply your assertion - an assertion that no inspired writer ever confirmed?

As I said, you are too literal-minded, you don't understand the Scriptures, and you clearly don't WANT to understand them.

So it is not worth the time to give lengthy explanations to you. If you want to remain ignorant, so be it.

Sighs. I take it that no inspired writer EVER said that Esther was a type or figure of Christ. True, some of the professional "type-hunters" claims it - but then again, they claim lots of stuff. The only way we'd know for sure whether Adam or Moses or Esther was a type of the Christ would be if an inspired writer informed us. In the case of Adam and Moses, we know for sure. As far as the myriad of other great Biblical characters, we do not know.

I didn't ask for a "lengthy explanation", ya tard. I asked for "a passage that confirms your assertion that Esther is a type of Christ."

No such passage was forthcoming - none will be. And that's that.

No, there is no direct statement in the New Testament that Esther is a type of Christ.

Yet anyone who knows Christ can see the typology. You can't see it, because you don't know Christ.

Just like a Pharisee, you search the Scriptures because in them you think you have life, but you won't come to Christ and be saved.

And since you're so literal-minded, you're probably thinking : "That's ridiculous! None of the Pharisees were women! Ha ha! What a tard this guy is!"

It's truly amazing how resistant you are to seeing Christ in the Scriptures, and all in the name of "orthodoxy."
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/25/2014 11:53:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 11:01:55 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:49:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:40:16 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:31:22 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:22:56 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 6:58:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 6:06:43 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:

The fact is, you don't understand the Scriptures at all.
And you are totally oblivious to that fact.

This, from a fella who thinks he "sees Christ" in passages such as

"And when these days were fulfilled, the king made a feast unto all the people that were present in Shushan the palace, both great and small, seven days, in the court of the garden of the king's palace." (Esther 1: 5)

Where's the reference to Christ? Do you see Him in there somewhere? Invoke some supernatural "Spirit guidance" and tell us.

Are you serious?

You really don't know what that has to do with Christ and the Gospel?

Esther is a "type" of Christ!

A "Biblical type", by the way, is something from the Old Testament that symbolically pre-figures or illustrates Christ, or an aspect of Christ.

From Wikipedia:
"Typology in Christian theology and Biblical exegesis is a doctrine or theory concerning the predictive relationship of the Old Testament to the New Testament. Events, persons or statements in the Old Testament are seen as types pre-figuring or superseded by antitypes, events or aspects of Christ or his revelation described in the New Testament. For example Jonah may be seen as the type of Christ in that he appeared to have emerged from the whale's belly and from death. In the fullest version of the theory of typology, the whole purpose of the Old Testament is viewed as merely the provision of types for Christ, the antitype, or fulfillment."

Now, Esther is a "type" of Christ. And so, everything in the book of Esther has to do with Christ.

And, no offense, but you seem to be extremely literal in your thinking, so you may have some trouble with this.

But please keep in mind that a "type" is only a figure of an "anti-type," so they're not going to be exactly alike in every way.

Esther typifies Christ in his office as the Mediator and Advocate for his people.
And it would benefit you to find out more about it.

But you have proven to me from past interactions, that it's not worth my time to give you lengthy explanations of things.

So, if you want to know more about "types", and specifically about Esther, use Google. I'm not doing it for you.

Does the passage mention Esther?

I have no need in Googling it, as I never questioned whether certain OT figures were figures of Christ. The NT states as much. Do you have a passage that confirms your assertion that Esther is a type of Christ? If not, is this simply your assertion - an assertion that no inspired writer ever confirmed?

As I said, you are too literal-minded, you don't understand the Scriptures, and you clearly don't WANT to understand them.

So it is not worth the time to give lengthy explanations to you. If you want to remain ignorant, so be it.

Sighs. I take it that no inspired writer EVER said that Esther was a type or figure of Christ. True, some of the professional "type-hunters" claims it - but then again, they claim lots of stuff. The only way we'd know for sure whether Adam or Moses or Esther was a type of the Christ would be if an inspired writer informed us. In the case of Adam and Moses, we know for sure. As far as the myriad of other great Biblical characters, we do not know.

I didn't ask for a "lengthy explanation", ya tard. I asked for "a passage that confirms your assertion that Esther is a type of Christ."

No such passage was forthcoming - none will be. And that's that.

No, there is no direct statement in the New Testament that Esther is a type of Christ.

Yet anyone who knows Christ can see the typology. You can't see it, because you don't know Christ.

Funny that no inspired writer thought enough of it to mention it, but that does not stop you from dogmatically asserting it - then, on top of that, make the exponentially more ridiculous assertion that anybody who doesn't see it doesn't "know Christ". Thus, you make viewing Esther as a type of Christ as an identifying mark of a true Christian. Do you know how far out in left field you are?

Just like a Pharisee, you search the Scriptures because in them you think you have life, but you won't come to Christ and be saved.

The scriptures, especially the Book of Acts, tells one HOW to "come to Christ and be saved." You can't just make up your own scheme, you know.

And since you're so literal-minded, you're probably thinking : "That's ridiculous! None of the Pharisees were women! Ha ha! What a tard this guy is!"

No, I thought that when you adamantly demanded that Esther be viewed as a type or figure of the coming Messiah, with me sitting here knowing full well that no man living can prove that - and none dead ever did. True, there are some traits of Esther, and some surrounding circumstances, which some might conjecture to be "typical" of Christ, but to blatantly assert it as a fact?

It's truly amazing how resistant you are to seeing Christ in the Scriptures, and all in the name of "orthodoxy."

Sir, you better keep your own imagination in check and thereby guard against going beyond that which is written. You'll be miles ahead if you'll speak up when the Bible speaks - and keep your mouth shut upon subjects about which the Bible is silent.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/26/2014 12:18:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/25/2014 11:53:26 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 11:01:55 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:49:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:40:16 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:31:22 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:22:56 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 6:58:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 6:06:43 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:

The fact is, you don't understand the Scriptures at all.
And you are totally oblivious to that fact.

This, from a fella who thinks he "sees Christ" in passages such as

"And when these days were fulfilled, the king made a feast unto all the people that were present in Shushan the palace, both great and small, seven days, in the court of the garden of the king's palace." (Esther 1: 5)

Where's the reference to Christ? Do you see Him in there somewhere? Invoke some supernatural "Spirit guidance" and tell us.

Are you serious?

You really don't know what that has to do with Christ and the Gospel?

Esther is a "type" of Christ!

A "Biblical type", by the way, is something from the Old Testament that symbolically pre-figures or illustrates Christ, or an aspect of Christ.

From Wikipedia:
"Typology in Christian theology and Biblical exegesis is a doctrine or theory concerning the predictive relationship of the Old Testament to the New Testament. Events, persons or statements in the Old Testament are seen as types pre-figuring or superseded by antitypes, events or aspects of Christ or his revelation described in the New Testament. For example Jonah may be seen as the type of Christ in that he appeared to have emerged from the whale's belly and from death. In the fullest version of the theory of typology, the whole purpose of the Old Testament is viewed as merely the provision of types for Christ, the antitype, or fulfillment."

Now, Esther is a "type" of Christ. And so, everything in the book of Esther has to do with Christ.

And, no offense, but you seem to be extremely literal in your thinking, so you may have some trouble with this.

But please keep in mind that a "type" is only a figure of an "anti-type," so they're not going to be exactly alike in every way.

Esther typifies Christ in his office as the Mediator and Advocate for his people.
And it would benefit you to find out more about it.

But you have proven to me from past interactions, that it's not worth my time to give you lengthy explanations of things.

So, if you want to know more about "types", and specifically about Esther, use Google. I'm not doing it for you.

Does the passage mention Esther?

I have no need in Googling it, as I never questioned whether certain OT figures were figures of Christ. The NT states as much. Do you have a passage that confirms your assertion that Esther is a type of Christ? If not, is this simply your assertion - an assertion that no inspired writer ever confirmed?

As I said, you are too literal-minded, you don't understand the Scriptures, and you clearly don't WANT to understand them.

So it is not worth the time to give lengthy explanations to you. If you want to remain ignorant, so be it.

Sighs. I take it that no inspired writer EVER said that Esther was a type or figure of Christ. True, some of the professional "type-hunters" claims it - but then again, they claim lots of stuff. The only way we'd know for sure whether Adam or Moses or Esther was a type of the Christ would be if an inspired writer informed us. In the case of Adam and Moses, we know for sure. As far as the myriad of other great Biblical characters, we do not know.

I didn't ask for a "lengthy explanation", ya tard. I asked for "a passage that confirms your assertion that Esther is a type of Christ."

No such passage was forthcoming - none will be. And that's that.

No, there is no direct statement in the New Testament that Esther is a type of Christ.

Yet anyone who knows Christ can see the typology. You can't see it, because you don't know Christ.

Funny that no inspired writer thought enough of it to mention it, but that does not stop you from dogmatically asserting it - then, on top of that, make the exponentially more ridiculous assertion that anybody who doesn't see it doesn't "know Christ". Thus, you make viewing Esther as a type of Christ as an identifying mark of a true Christian. Do you know how far out in left field you are?

Just like a Pharisee, you search the Scriptures because in them you think you have life, but you won't come to Christ and be saved.

The scriptures, especially the Book of Acts, tells one HOW to "come to Christ and be saved." You can't just make up your own scheme, you know.

And since you're so literal-minded, you're probably thinking : "That's ridiculous! None of the Pharisees were women! Ha ha! What a tard this guy is!"

No, I thought that when you adamantly demanded that Esther be viewed as a type or figure of the coming Messiah, with me sitting here knowing full well that no man living can prove that - and none dead ever did. True, there are some traits of Esther, and some surrounding circumstances, which some might conjecture to be "typical" of Christ, but to blatantly assert it as a fact?

It's truly amazing how resistant you are to seeing Christ in the Scriptures, and all in the name of "orthodoxy."

Sir, you better keep your own imagination in check and thereby guard against going beyond that which is written. You'll be miles ahead if you'll speak up when the Bible speaks - and keep your mouth shut upon subjects about which the Bible is silent.

Like I said, you're missing Christ in your attempt to be orthodox.

Tell me, do you really think God inspired the writing of the book of Esther just to give us a historical lesson, or a bunch of moral teachings?

If you aren't seeking to know Christ when you read through the Old Testament, you're lost, and you do not know Christ.

Christ is the key to understanding all things in the Holy Scriptures. Without Christ, it's all meaningless words.

And I know, from past interactions with you, exactly what you're thinking.
You'll accuse me of saying the Scriptures are meaningless.

So let me just say it ONE MORE TIME:
WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless.

I didn't just say: "It's all meaningless."

I said: "WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless."

Did you get that?
WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless words.

Now, go ahead and deliberately misquote me.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/26/2014 12:26:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:18:10 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 11:53:26 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 11:01:55 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:49:40 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:40:16 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:31:22 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 10:22:56 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/25/2014 6:58:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/25/2014 6:06:43 PM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:

The fact is, you don't understand the Scriptures at all.
And you are totally oblivious to that fact.

This, from a fella who thinks he "sees Christ" in passages such as

"And when these days were fulfilled, the king made a feast unto all the people that were present in Shushan the palace, both great and small, seven days, in the court of the garden of the king's palace." (Esther 1: 5)

Where's the reference to Christ? Do you see Him in there somewhere? Invoke some supernatural "Spirit guidance" and tell us.

Are you serious?

You really don't know what that has to do with Christ and the Gospel?

Esther is a "type" of Christ!

A "Biblical type", by the way, is something from the Old Testament that symbolically pre-figures or illustrates Christ, or an aspect of Christ.

From Wikipedia:
"Typology in Christian theology and Biblical exegesis is a doctrine or theory concerning the predictive relationship of the Old Testament to the New Testament. Events, persons or statements in the Old Testament are seen as types pre-figuring or superseded by antitypes, events or aspects of Christ or his revelation described in the New Testament. For example Jonah may be seen as the type of Christ in that he appeared to have emerged from the whale's belly and from death. In the fullest version of the theory of typology, the whole purpose of the Old Testament is viewed as merely the provision of types for Christ, the antitype, or fulfillment."

Now, Esther is a "type" of Christ. And so, everything in the book of Esther has to do with Christ.

And, no offense, but you seem to be extremely literal in your thinking, so you may have some trouble with this.

But please keep in mind that a "type" is only a figure of an "anti-type," so they're not going to be exactly alike in every way.

Esther typifies Christ in his office as the Mediator and Advocate for his people.
And it would benefit you to find out more about it.

But you have proven to me from past interactions, that it's not worth my time to give you lengthy explanations of things.

So, if you want to know more about "types", and specifically about Esther, use Google. I'm not doing it for you.

Does the passage mention Esther?

I have no need in Googling it, as I never questioned whether certain OT figures were figures of Christ. The NT states as much. Do you have a passage that confirms your assertion that Esther is a type of Christ? If not, is this simply your assertion - an assertion that no inspired writer ever confirmed?

As I said, you are too literal-minded, you don't understand the Scriptures, and you clearly don't WANT to understand them.

So it is not worth the time to give lengthy explanations to you. If you want to remain ignorant, so be it.

Sighs. I take it that no inspired writer EVER said that Esther was a type or figure of Christ. True, some of the professional "type-hunters" claims it - but then again, they claim lots of stuff. The only way we'd know for sure whether Adam or Moses or Esther was a type of the Christ would be if an inspired writer informed us. In the case of Adam and Moses, we know for sure. As far as the myriad of other great Biblical characters, we do not know.

I didn't ask for a "lengthy explanation", ya tard. I asked for "a passage that confirms your assertion that Esther is a type of Christ."

No such passage was forthcoming - none will be. And that's that.

No, there is no direct statement in the New Testament that Esther is a type of Christ.

Yet anyone who knows Christ can see the typology. You can't see it, because you don't know Christ.

Funny that no inspired writer thought enough of it to mention it, but that does not stop you from dogmatically asserting it - then, on top of that, make the exponentially more ridiculous assertion that anybody who doesn't see it doesn't "know Christ". Thus, you make viewing Esther as a type of Christ as an identifying mark of a true Christian. Do you know how far out in left field you are?

Just like a Pharisee, you search the Scriptures because in them you think you have life, but you won't come to Christ and be saved.

The scriptures, especially the Book of Acts, tells one HOW to "come to Christ and be saved." You can't just make up your own scheme, you know.

And since you're so literal-minded, you're probably thinking : "That's ridiculous! None of the Pharisees were women! Ha ha! What a tard this guy is!"

No, I thought that when you adamantly demanded that Esther be viewed as a type or figure of the coming Messiah, with me sitting here knowing full well that no man living can prove that - and none dead ever did. True, there are some traits of Esther, and some surrounding circumstances, which some might conjecture to be "typical" of Christ, but to blatantly assert it as a fact?

It's truly amazing how resistant you are to seeing Christ in the Scriptures, and all in the name of "orthodoxy."

Sir, you better keep your own imagination in check and thereby guard against going beyond that which is written. You'll be miles ahead if you'll speak up when the Bible speaks - and keep your mouth shut upon subjects about which the Bible is silent.

Like I said, you're missing Christ in your attempt to be orthodox.

Tell me, do you really think God inspired the writing of the book of Esther just to give us a historical lesson, or a bunch of moral teachings?

If you aren't seeking to know Christ when you read through the Old Testament, you're lost, and you do not know Christ.

Christ is the key to understanding all things in the Holy Scriptures. Without Christ, it's all meaningless words.

And I know, from past interactions with you, exactly what you're thinking.
You'll accuse me of saying the Scriptures are meaningless.

So let me just say it ONE MORE TIME:
WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless.

I didn't just say: "It's all meaningless."

I said: "WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless."

Did you get that?
WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless words.

Now, go ahead and deliberately misquote me.

LMAO. I have no need of misquoting you. I would have to try very hard to make some of your statements more absurd, so I'll just leave 'em alone.

The fact of the matter is that a person can be a Christian, live a Christian life, and at the end go home to Paradise without ever once even considering whether Esther was a type or figure of Christ. That's the truth of the matter, no matter how much you plead otherwise.

Of course the NT illuminates the OT, and vice versa. However, the words of the Bible are NEVER just meaningless words under any circumstances.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/26/2014 12:46:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:26:16 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:18:10 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:


Like I said, you're missing Christ in your attempt to be orthodox.

Tell me, do you really think God inspired the writing of the book of Esther just to give us a historical lesson, or a bunch of moral teachings?

If you aren't seeking to know Christ when you read through the Old Testament, you're lost, and you do not know Christ.

Christ is the key to understanding all things in the Holy Scriptures. Without Christ, it's all meaningless words.

And I know, from past interactions with you, exactly what you're thinking.
You'll accuse me of saying the Scriptures are meaningless.

So let me just say it ONE MORE TIME:
WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless.

I didn't just say: "It's all meaningless."

I said: "WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless."

Did you get that?
WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless words.

Now, go ahead and deliberately misquote me.

LMAO. I have no need of misquoting you. I would have to try very hard to make some of your statements more absurd, so I'll just leave 'em alone.

The fact of the matter is that a person can be a Christian, live a Christian life, and at the end go home to Paradise without ever once even considering whether Esther was a type or figure of Christ. That's the truth of the matter, no matter how much you plead otherwise.

Thank you for not misquoting me this time.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/26/2014 12:49:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:46:52 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:26:16 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:18:10 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:


Like I said, you're missing Christ in your attempt to be orthodox.

Tell me, do you really think God inspired the writing of the book of Esther just to give us a historical lesson, or a bunch of moral teachings?

If you aren't seeking to know Christ when you read through the Old Testament, you're lost, and you do not know Christ.

Christ is the key to understanding all things in the Holy Scriptures. Without Christ, it's all meaningless words.

And I know, from past interactions with you, exactly what you're thinking.
You'll accuse me of saying the Scriptures are meaningless.

So let me just say it ONE MORE TIME:
WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless.

I didn't just say: "It's all meaningless."

I said: "WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless."

Did you get that?
WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless words.

Now, go ahead and deliberately misquote me.

LMAO. I have no need of misquoting you. I would have to try very hard to make some of your statements more absurd, so I'll just leave 'em alone.

The fact of the matter is that a person can be a Christian, live a Christian life, and at the end go home to Paradise without ever once even considering whether Esther was a type or figure of Christ. That's the truth of the matter, no matter how much you plead otherwise.

Thank you for not misquoting me this time.

I didn't have to. Who could improve on, "If you don't believe that Esther was a type of Christ, then you are not a true Christian?" I have no need of misrepresenting that.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,137
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7/26/2014 12:59:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The Bible is said to be god-inspired, but there is no god-inspired interpretation. If such a thing existed, then there should only be one interpretation of the Bible. Alas, that is not the case...

What good is god-inspired scripture if we cannot determine what it means?
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/26/2014 1:02:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 12:49:17 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:46:52 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:26:16 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:18:10 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:


Like I said, you're missing Christ in your attempt to be orthodox.

Tell me, do you really think God inspired the writing of the book of Esther just to give us a historical lesson, or a bunch of moral teachings?

If you aren't seeking to know Christ when you read through the Old Testament, you're lost, and you do not know Christ.

Christ is the key to understanding all things in the Holy Scriptures. Without Christ, it's all meaningless words.

And I know, from past interactions with you, exactly what you're thinking.
You'll accuse me of saying the Scriptures are meaningless.

So let me just say it ONE MORE TIME:
WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless.

I didn't just say: "It's all meaningless."

I said: "WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless."

Did you get that?
WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless words.

Now, go ahead and deliberately misquote me.

LMAO. I have no need of misquoting you. I would have to try very hard to make some of your statements more absurd, so I'll just leave 'em alone.

The fact of the matter is that a person can be a Christian, live a Christian life, and at the end go home to Paradise without ever once even considering whether Esther was a type or figure of Christ. That's the truth of the matter, no matter how much you plead otherwise.

Thank you for not misquoting me this time.

I didn't have to. Who could improve on, "If you don't believe that Esther was a type of Christ, then you are not a true Christian?" I have no need of misrepresenting that.

Well, there you go again, misquoting me.

Did I really say those exact words?
Of course not.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/26/2014 1:11:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/26/2014 1:02:19 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:49:17 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:46:52 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:26:16 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/26/2014 12:18:10 AM, sovereigngracereigns wrote:


Like I said, you're missing Christ in your attempt to be orthodox.

Tell me, do you really think God inspired the writing of the book of Esther just to give us a historical lesson, or a bunch of moral teachings?

If you aren't seeking to know Christ when you read through the Old Testament, you're lost, and you do not know Christ.

Christ is the key to understanding all things in the Holy Scriptures. Without Christ, it's all meaningless words.

And I know, from past interactions with you, exactly what you're thinking.
You'll accuse me of saying the Scriptures are meaningless.

So let me just say it ONE MORE TIME:
WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless.

I didn't just say: "It's all meaningless."

I said: "WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless."

Did you get that?
WITHOUT CHRIST, it's all meaningless words.

Now, go ahead and deliberately misquote me.

LMAO. I have no need of misquoting you. I would have to try very hard to make some of your statements more absurd, so I'll just leave 'em alone.

The fact of the matter is that a person can be a Christian, live a Christian life, and at the end go home to Paradise without ever once even considering whether Esther was a type or figure of Christ. That's the truth of the matter, no matter how much you plead otherwise.

Thank you for not misquoting me this time.

I didn't have to. Who could improve on, "If you don't believe that Esther was a type of Christ, then you are not a true Christian?" I have no need of misrepresenting that.

Well, there you go again, misquoting me.

Did I really say those exact words?
Of course not.

Those exact words? No. I paraphrased it. You stated the CONTENT of what I put in quotes.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
heart_of_the_matter
Posts: 408
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8/17/2014 7:39:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/19/2014 9:28:00 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Well one explanation, and I believe the most reasonable one is the influence of God's enemy, Satan, who is currently confined to the earth awaiting the execution of the sentence against him.

If, as I firmly believe, there is a God, and he did indeed leave us the bible as his word, should it not be completely harmonious throughout?

I believe that it is despite what mankind has done to it, with or without the influence of Satan.
The Bible was pure at one point, but then it WAS tampered with!

24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.

25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.

26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.
https://www.lds.org...

I also believe that whilst God has allowed mankind to mess with it in line with his instruction to us at Revelation 22:11, he has more than sufficient power to provide sufficient protection for his word that it is not completely impossible to understand, albeit with some difficulty.

That is why I believe, that James was inspired to write as he did at James 1:5-8, that those short of Wisdom should petition God for it, in full trust that hewill provide it ti enable them to understand his word with dili
gent study.

Yes, correct. One of the roles/functions of the Holy Spirit is to confirm truth to people!

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
https://www.lds.org...

I also believe that this is what holy spirit is used for, in line with what Jesus stated at:

John 14:16
16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever,

John 14:26
26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.

Another reason I believe that spirit to be essential to understanding scripture is that at 1 Corinthians 2:10 "For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God" which tells me that God's spirit searches through the "deep things of God" or the hard to understand things which elsewhere he calls the solid food, and compares it to the milk of the word that inexperienced students get. and that God communicates them to us, through his so, which can also only be by holy spirit.

Yes, the Spirit does those things...and other things as well...for example the Spirit is also known as "The Comforter".

So is holy spirit necessary in order to understand scripture properly?

I believe, from what scriptures, such as the ones I have shown you here, and many others, that it is not only necessary, but vital, especially for the "deep things" the "things hard to understand" in scripture.

Yes, I agree with you.

I know there are others on here who do not believe that, but that is most likely because they aren't getting spirit help, or they rely on themselves against all scriptural advice, or even because, once again against all scriptural advice, they rely on the words of "well regarded men", and here I quote not from scripture but from one of Merriam-Webster's definitions of Princes and Nobles. And that is something scripture warns us very carefully against doing.

Yes. Good....The right way is to get your answers and confirmation directly from God (through the spirit). We all have a right to that knowledge for ourselves...Salvation is too important to be entrusted to another. We all have the PRIMARY responsibility to learn and work out our own salvation for ourself.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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8/17/2014 10:17:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/17/2014 7:39:35 PM, heart_of_the_matter wrote:
At 3/19/2014 9:28:00 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

Well one explanation, and I believe the most reasonable one is the influence of God's enemy, Satan, who is currently confined to the earth awaiting the execution of the sentence against him.

If, as I firmly believe, there is a God, and he did indeed leave us the bible as his word, should it not be completely harmonious throughout?

I believe that it is despite what mankind has done to it, with or without the influence of Satan.
The Bible was pure at one point, but then it WAS tampered with!

24 And the angel of the Lord said unto me: Thou hast beheld that the book proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew; and when it proceeded forth from the mouth of a Jew it contained the fulness of the gospel of the Lord, of whom the twelve apostles bear record; and they bear record according to the truth which is in the Lamb of God.

25 Wherefore, these things go forth from the Jews in purity unto the Gentiles, according to the truth which is in God.

26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

27 And all this have they done that they might pervert the right ways of the Lord, that they might blind the eyes and harden the hearts of the children of men.
https://www.lds.org...

I also believe that whilst God has allowed mankind to mess with it in line with his instruction to us at Revelation 22:11, he has more than sufficient power to provide sufficient protection for his word that it is not completely impossible to understand, albeit with some difficulty.

That is why I believe, that James was inspired to write as he did at James 1:5-8, that those short of Wisdom should petition God for it, in full trust that hewill provide it ti enable them to understand his word with dili
gent study.

Yes, correct. One of the roles/functions of the Holy Spirit is to confirm truth to people!

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.
https://www.lds.org...

I also believe that this is what holy spirit is used for, in line with what Jesus stated at:

John 14:16
16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever,

John 14:26
26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.

Another reason I believe that spirit to be essential to understanding scripture is that at 1 Corinthians 2:10 "For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God" which tells me that God's spirit searches through the "deep things of God" or the hard to understand things which elsewhere he calls the solid food, and compares it to the milk of the word that inexperienced students get. and that God communicates them to us, through his so, which can also only be by holy spirit.

Yes, the Spirit does those things...and other things as well...for example the Spirit is also known as "The Comforter".

So is holy spirit necessary in order to understand scripture properly?

I believe, from what scriptures, such as the ones I have shown you here, and many others, that it is not only necessary, but vital, especially for the "deep things" the "things hard to understand" in scripture.

Yes, I agree with you.

I know there are others on here who do not believe that, but that is most likely because they aren't getting spirit help, or they rely on themselves against all scriptural advice, or even because, once again against all scriptural advice, they rely on the words of "well regarded men", and here I quote not from scripture but from one of Merriam-Webster's definitions of Princes and Nobles. And that is something scripture warns us very carefully against doing.

Yes. Good....The right way is to get your answers and confirmation directly from God (through the spirit). We all have a right to that knowledge for ourselves...Salvation is too important to be entrusted to another. We all have the PRIMARY responsibility to learn and work out our own salvation for ourself.

LMAO. Both of you claiming that the Holy Spirit is directly leading and comforting you - yet one is a follower of WatchTower nonsense, while the other adheres to the books of Imposter Joe Smith! That's rich. If the Holy Spirit is directly leading both of you, someone must be pretty confused.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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8/17/2014 10:42:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/19/2014 9:28:00 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
Paul certainly said that it is, and no doubt would says so even more strongly if he had lived in a tme when confusion over what teh bible actually says was as rife as it is today.

There are si many different faiths, claiming to be Christian, with so many different ideas of what scripture says, and all can find passages in scripture to "prove" what they say.

That makes deciding very difficult and it is no wonder that so many give up on the quest.

That in itself is bad enough, but why is there such a confusion over what should be unique and unchanging, God's word.

Well one explanation, and I believe the most reasonable one is the influence of God's enemy, Satan, who is currently confined to the earth awaiting the execution of the sentence against him.

If, as I firmly believe, there is a God, and he did indeed leave us the bible as his word, should it not be completely harmonious throughout?

I believe that it is despite what mankind has done to it, with or without the influence of Satan.

I also believe that whilst God has allowed mankind to mess with it in line with his instruction to us at Revelation 22:11, he has more than sufficient power to provide sufficient protection for his word that it is not completely impossible to understand, albeit with some difficulty.

That is why I believe, that James was inspired to write as he did at James 1:5-8, that those short of Wisdom should petition God for it, in full trust that hewill provide it ti enable them to understand his word with dili
gent study.

I also believe that this is what holy spirit is used for, in line with what Jesus stated at:

John 14:16
16 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another helper to be with you forever,

John 14:26
26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you.

Another reason I believe that spirit to be essential to understanding scripture is that at 1 Corinthians 2:10 "For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God" which tells me that God's spirit searches through the "deep things of God" or the hard to understand things which elsewhere he calls the solid food, and compares it to the milk of the word that inexperienced students get. and that God communicates them to us, through his so, which can also only be by holy spirit.

So is holy spirit necessary in order to understand scripture properly?

I believe, from what scriptures, such as the ones I have shown you here, and many others, that it is not only necessary, but vital, especially for the "deep things" the "things hard to understand" in scripture.

I know there are others on here who do not believe that, but that is most likely because they aren't getting spirit help, or they rely on themselves against all scriptural advice, or even because, once again against all scriptural advice, they rely on the words of "well regarded men", and here I quote not from scripture but from one of Merriam-Webster's definitions of Princes and Nobles. And that is something scripture warns us very carefully against doing.

The Holy Spirit is ALL the knowledge of God that us saints speak from known as the voice of God, or the Word of God. This is where we learn about the past, present and future. This knowledge also teaches us how He created us in His invisible thoughts.