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The Jehovah's Witness Controversy

MadCornishBiker
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3/23/2014 5:17:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I have started this thread because I am sick to death of being dragged into hi-jacking other people's thread thanks to the hatred that some, Satanically driven people have for the JWs who truly are God's people on earth.

So, bring it on people, serious questions preferred but even Anna, composer and Bulproof are welcome to keep up their manic attacks on God here.

Attacks on God?

Yes because as he has shown in the past, attacking his people has always meant attacking him in is eyes.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/23/2014 6:17:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
For those who want to know what they actually believe, take a look at:

http://wol.jw.org...

And simply choose your topics.

What they have believed n the past is just that, past and therefore unimportant.

After all, we all make mistakes, even Jesus did according to scripture.
Yoshi
Posts: 71
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3/23/2014 6:45:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 5:17:02 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I have started this thread because I am sick to death of being dragged into hi-jacking other people's thread thanks to the hatred that some, Satanically driven people have for the JWs who truly are God's people on earth.

So, bring it on people, serious questions preferred but even Anna, composer and Bulproof are welcome to keep up their manic attacks on God here.

Attacks on God?

Yes because as he has shown in the past, attacking his people has always meant attacking him in is eyes.

What questions do you consider "Serious" because I could ask why do you think people "Attack God" or those who you consider "God's people on earth"?
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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3/23/2014 7:01:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 6:17:39 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
For those who want to know what they actually believe, take a look at:

http://wol.jw.org...

And simply choose your topics.


What they have believed n the past is just that, past and therefore unimportant.

After all, we all make mistakes, even Jesus did according to scripture.

Wrong again mad, what they believed in the past is exactly what you and they believe now.

You and they believe that you are directly guided by god, it isn't you who makes your claims it is god himself.

You and they keep claiming that god keeps getting it wrong. The stupidity about armageddon according to you and them comes directly from god.

You and they are just LIARS.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/23/2014 8:51:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 6:45:54 AM, Yoshi wrote:
At 3/23/2014 5:17:02 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I have started this thread because I am sick to death of being dragged into hi-jacking other people's thread thanks to the hatred that some, Satanically driven people have for the JWs who truly are God's people on earth.

So, bring it on people, serious questions preferred but even Anna, composer and Bulproof are welcome to keep up their manic attacks on God here.

Attacks on God?

Yes because as he has shown in the past, attacking his people has always meant attacking him in is eyes.

What questions do you consider "Serious" because I could ask why do you think people "Attack God" or those who you consider "God's people on earth"?

Any question you like as long as you aren't just being sarcastic.

I thin people attack God for the same reason scripture tells us he does, and that is exemplified n Gamaliel's warning to the Sanhedrin.

Acts 5:34-39
34 But a Pharisee named Gamaliel rose in the Sanhedrin; he was a Law teacher esteemed by all the people, and he gave the command to put the men outside for a little while. 35 Then he said to them: "Men of Israel, be careful as to what you intend to do about these men. 36 For instance, before these days Theudas rose up, saying he himself was somebody, and a number of men, about 400, joined his party. But he was done away with, and all those who were following him were dispersed and came to nothing. 37 After him, Judas the Galillean rose up in the days of the registration, and he drew followers after himself. That man also perished, and all those who were following him were scattered. 38 So under the present circumstances, I say to you, do not meddle with these men, but let them alone. For if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; 39 but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. Otherwise, you may even be found fighters against God himself."

There Gamaliel was warnng the Sanhedrin that to fight agaisnt those working for God, against his chosen people, is the same thing, in God's eyes as fighting against himn.

That is why, as scripture tells us on so many occassions that "Jehovah himself was fighting for Israel".

Surely any God worth his worship is prepared to stand up for those who stand up for him?

As for "question 2":

Who I, or anyone else consider to be "God's people on earth" is immaterial. It is who God does that counts, and scripture tells us how to identify them.

So far the only ones I have found who come anywhere near are the JWs.

The basic "qualifications" are:

That they teach what Jesus and the Apostles did, adn they deomsrttrably do..

The main teachings are

Jehovah is the English translation of the name of God as represented in scripture by the Tetragrammaton .

Jehovah is the God and Father of our Lord and King Jesus Christ. (1 Peter 1:3; Ephesians 1:3; John 20:17)

God's son was created (Revelation 3:14) and was the only thing he created completely alone (John 1:18; Colossians 1:18-20) He then assisted his father in creating everything else.

The Kingdom promised by both God and Christ is a real one and will eventually replace all human governments.

It has taken, so far, about 6,000 years to establish to God's satisfaction and will not be completely in place until this earth as rid of all of Satan's works, Satan and all his followers Angelic and human, intentional or simply because they refused to accept the truth will have been destroyed along with death and hades (Hell).

Immediately after that Christ will hand the by then fully established. fully established Kingdom back to his Father, whose Kingdom it really is.

The fact that God was originally the King of his Kingdom, which was originally the Nation of Israel, is borne witnesses to when Israel demanded a human king over them and God told Samuel, "it is me they have rejected from being king over them, not you".
1 Samuel 8:7 Then Jehovah said to Samuel: "Listen to the voice of the people as respects all that they say to you; for it is not you whom they have rejected, but it is I whom they have rejected from being king over them".

The Jehovah's Witnesses also believe what Paul taught at 2 Timothy 3:16,17, and realise that he was referring to the Hebrew Scriptures ( the badly named Old Testament) . Therefore the Christian Greek Scriptures (The equally badly named New Testament) are an essential add on which are mainly there to eitehr show prophecies that have been fulfilled, to assist followers of Christ in converting the Law Code into a set of principles instead of rigid laws, and to explain a little further ancient prophecies about what was, and mostly is, still to come.

I could go further but suffice it for now that they do all they do all they can to comply with John 4:23,24
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/23/2014 8:56:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 7:01:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/23/2014 6:17:39 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
For those who want to know what they actually believe, take a look at:

http://wol.jw.org...

And simply choose your topics.


What they have believed n the past is just that, past and therefore unimportant.

After all, we all make mistakes, even Jesus did according to scripture.

Wrong again mad, what they believed in the past is exactly what you and they believe now.

You and they believe that you are directly guided by god, it isn't you who makes your claims it is god himself.

You and they keep claiming that god keeps getting it wrong. The stupidity about armageddon according to you and them comes directly from god.

Actually it comes from scripture, which came from God.


You and they are just LIARS.

No Bulproof we leave lying to such as you, you are so bad at it it's a real joke. most of the time you can't even remember the lies you last told.

No it is exactly what I believe now, as far as I know, but their beliefs have undergone many a learning experience on the way.

Ironically that is one of the things you have often criticised them for in the past, so you can't have it both ways, sorry.
Yoshi
Posts: 71
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3/23/2014 9:02:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 8:51:03 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/23/2014 6:45:54 AM, Yoshi wrote:

What questions do you consider "Serious" because I could ask why do you think people "Attack God" or those who you consider "God's people on earth"?

Any question you like as long as you aren't just being sarcastic.

I thin people attack God for the same reason scripture tells us he does, and that is exemplified n Gamaliel's warning to the Sanhedrin.


Excluding the rest of your quoting, you could just say "scripture" and be done with it.

However just because the scriptures tell you doesn't mean people are in the real world?

When I ask "who is attacking your beliefs" I actually mean Who's attacking your beliefs.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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3/23/2014 9:17:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 8:56:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:01:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/23/2014 6:17:39 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
For those who want to know what they actually believe, take a look at:

http://wol.jw.org...

And simply choose your topics.


What they have believed n the past is just that, past and therefore unimportant.

After all, we all make mistakes, even Jesus did according to scripture.

Wrong again mad, what they believed in the past is exactly what you and they believe now.

You and they believe that you are directly guided by god, it isn't you who makes your claims it is god himself.

You and they keep claiming that god keeps getting it wrong. The stupidity about armageddon according to you and them comes directly from god.

Actually it comes from scripture, which came from God.
Yes that is what you/them claim and that means that god keeps getting it wrong according to you/them.

You and they are just LIARS.

No Bulproof we leave lying to such as you, you are so bad at it it's a real joke. most of the time you can't even remember the lies you last told.

No it is exactly what I believe now, as far as I know, but their beliefs have undergone many a learning experience on the way.

Ironically that is one of the things you have often criticised them for in the past, so you can't have it both ways, sorry.
I have never criticised them for admitting mistakes, because as they claim THEY don't make mistakes.

Nothing they teach are the words of man. All that they teach comes directly from GOD. Including armageddon in 1914, as they taught as early as 1878.

Like you madman they are just LIARS.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/23/2014 9:33:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 9:02:28 AM, Yoshi wrote:
At 3/23/2014 8:51:03 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/23/2014 6:45:54 AM, Yoshi wrote:

What questions do you consider "Serious" because I could ask why do you think people "Attack God" or those who you consider "God's people on earth"?

Any question you like as long as you aren't just being sarcastic.

I thin people attack God for the same reason scripture tells us he does, and that is exemplified n Gamaliel's warning to the Sanhedrin.


Excluding the rest of your quoting, you could just say "scripture" and be done with it.


True, but as you will learn, if you haven't already, I do like to actually explain at least some of it.

However just because the scriptures tell you doesn't mean people are in the real world?

Actually it does, You try proving something in scripture wrong, you can't, it's impossible. I know, I tried very hard once upon a time. however there are quite a few things you can prove right, with science, history, archaeology, and simple logic.


When I ask "who is attacking your beliefs" I actually mean Who's attacking your beliefs.

Ah sorry, I get a bit carried away, lol.

The simple answer to that is almost everyone on here, and elsewhere, which suits me because that too confirms either the accuracy of scriptural prophecy, or the chances that my beliefs are right, or even both.

Since Christ made it very clear that his followers would be a small minority, and even smaller in this time period, being in a minority is good, not bad.

See Matthew 7:213,14; 7:21,23; Luke 17:22-30; Luke 18:8)

You might notice I don't specify a translation because even though I believe the NWT to be the most accurate translation you can get, I agree with the JWs who hold that what they, and I, teach can be demonstrated from any translation you care to choose, so take your pick
Yoshi
Posts: 71
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3/23/2014 9:45:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 9:33:19 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/23/2014 9:02:28 AM, Yoshi wrote:

However just because the scriptures tell you doesn't mean people are in the real world?

Actually it does, You try proving something in scripture wrong, you can't, it's impossible. I know, I tried very hard once upon a time. however there are quite a few things you can prove right, with science, history, archaeology, and simple logic.

Oh? I would love to know what you are talking about that can be proven and the sources to anything that can help because that is a very unique claim.

And who's trying to disprove scriptures to be wrong? do the scriptures inflict my personal decisions, or influence the freedom of others in the society? if not, what else is the reasons? (besides as you say "Satanically driven people" lol)


When I ask "who is attacking your beliefs" I actually mean Who's attacking your beliefs.

Ah sorry, I get a bit carried away, lol.

The simple answer to that is almost everyone on here, and elsewhere, which suits me because that too confirms either the accuracy of scriptural prophecy, or the chances that my beliefs are right, or even both.

If I had I book that told me "Those who watch Bruce Almighty as a child will know the name of Jim Carrey", it doesn't mean it's proven that itself proves anything and considering there's many other books like my book (they're all wrong or similar cause they feature Snakes on a Plane with Samuel L. Jackson).

Get my overly joking point? plus, I'm not trying to prove you wrong, I hardly care at all about what you believe and I'm fine with whatever you believe as well, so?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/23/2014 11:04:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 9:17:53 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/23/2014 8:56:14 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/23/2014 7:01:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 3/23/2014 6:17:39 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
For those who want to know what they actually believe, take a look at:

http://wol.jw.org...

And simply choose your topics.


What they have believed n the past is just that, past and therefore unimportant.

After all, we all make mistakes, even Jesus did according to scripture.

Wrong again mad, what they believed in the past is exactly what you and they believe now.

You and they believe that you are directly guided by god, it isn't you who makes your claims it is god himself.

You and they keep claiming that god keeps getting it wrong. The stupidity about armageddon according to you and them comes directly from god.

Actually it comes from scripture, which came from God.
Yes that is what you/them claim and that means that god keeps getting it wrong according to you/them.

You and they are just LIARS.

No Bulproof we leave lying to such as you, you are so bad at it it's a real joke. most of the time you can't even remember the lies you last told.

No it is exactly what I believe now, as far as I know, but their beliefs have undergone many a learning experience on the way.

Ironically that is one of the things you have often criticised them for in the past, so you can't have it both ways, sorry.
I have never criticised them for admitting mistakes, because as they claim THEY don't make mistakes.

Nothing they teach are the words of man. All that they teach comes directly from GOD. Including armageddon in 1914, as they taught as early as 1878.

Like you madman they are just LIARS.

No that is not true and you know it.

True , knowing that,a s scripture said, Christ had taken his throne in 1914, and that scripture said, without benefit of any time-scale, that t would be followed by the greatest tribulation ever seen, and Armageddon, the JWs wrongly assumed that WWI, which started for most people in November 1914 about 1 month after Jesus was due to take up that throne in the heavens, was the start of those two events.

They certainly weren't alone, many people at the time thought that WWI, being such a unique event as it was, the first total World War, and what was also seen as "the war to end all wars" to Armageddon, it was quite popular theme at the time.

They were all wrong, including the JWs, or the Bible Students as they were then known. However the Bible Students, like the JWs as they are now known, were always a high profile target, as they re today.

Ironically, in the UK they recently had a series of TV programs marking the fact that 2014 is the centenary of WWI, and even in that series it was often referred to as Armageddon.

The JWs, unlike so many who just melted into the background as the cowards they were, faced up to their error, and the criticism which it caused, and thinks to idiots like you still does, and admitted their error.

I have no doubt whatever that had you been living in Europe then you too would have been calling it Armageddon, and like the other cowards who were wrong would also have just melted into the background, as I don't doubt you will try to when you find out how wrong you are today.

Yes they have made mistakes. Even Jesus did if we are to believe scripture, and if he did what chance do we stand.

However they do teach from scripture, and scripture demonstrably comes from God, so they basically do teach from God.

One problem is of course, that of experience.

For instance Anna insists that Armageddon happened, even though Christ described what it is brought in to bring to an end "A tribulation such as has never been seen before no, nor will ever be seen again" and really history tells us that events in the 1st century have been eclipsed before and since, many times over.

Same mistake the JWs made, misreading history (or in their current events) as being something which fit the signs.

Easy done, and they and I are still coming to terms with just how bad the Great Tribulation is going to be, and the phrase that keeps coming back to my mind is one Jesus said when describing it "unless those days were cut short (which is where Armageddon comes in) no flesh would be saved".

No flesh will be? Just how extreme is that?

How bad to the weather systems we are effecting badly, the climate changes we are causing, the financial problems we are all, even the Governments, getting ever deeper into because of what we demand as our "right".

How many who don't firmly hold to the hope that scriptures give us about the outcome will take their own lives out of fear?

That is why the teaching work of the JWs is so important. It is helping people to grow in faith in god, faith that he deserves and which teaches us that:

If he can protect Shadrak, Meeshak and Abednego in the middle of a furnace so hot that it killed those that threw them in there.

If he can part the Red Sea over what must have been a two mile front and make the ground firm enough to withstand the churning of about 6 million human feet, plus all their livestock, and all their wagons, heavily laden with what the Egyptians had given them to get rid.

If he can cause the sun to appear to remain still in the sky "for almost a whole day" to give Israel the time to destroy the enemies who were attacking the Gibeonites, previously enemies of Israel but who had allied themselves with them.

If he can do all these things, and more, then what is there to fear, no matter how bad things get. He won;t wrap us in cotton wool to protect us. What he will do is give us the mental, physical, and most of all spiritual strength to survive.

Of course, that is not even the start.

First they have to help people to realise just how true scripture is.

To know exactly how powerful, and worthy of the trust we will need to develop to survive he really is.

To learn exactly what sort of God he is, just as Jesus said we need to learn (John 17:3)

That is why God backs them, because they cannot do his work if he doesn't. It is too big a task for any human. Even learning about him is impossible without his help, let alone teaching about him as I do, and the JWs do.

That is why Satan end every part of his system hate them so much, including people like you, Anna and Composer.

If God wants to let them make fools of themselves occasionally when they try to understand things he does not yet want them to, who can gainsay him, he is God after all.

However, as long as they are making the effort to get it right, as they continue to do, he won't hold it against us.

That is why, unless you humbly ask him for his help you will never understand what is going on at the moment. Reality, the true reality, will always go straight over your head.
Zylorarchy
Posts: 209
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3/23/2014 11:14:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 5:17:02 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I have started this thread because I am sick to death of being dragged into hi-jacking other people's thread thanks to the hatred that some, Satanically driven people have for the JWs who truly are God's people on earth.

So, bring it on people, serious questions preferred but even Anna, composer and Bulproof are welcome to keep up their manic attacks on God here.

Attacks on God?

Yes because as he has shown in the past, attacking his people has always meant attacking him in is eyes.

Why do JW's knock on our door's? This is not an attack but I am merely curious why you feel this need when no other religion does so. Although some may view it as a mere irritation (and it is a bit annoying and I am personally against advertising any religion to the door), do you not think that the likes of Muslims, Sikhs, Hindu's and others may find this offensive?
"I am not intolerant of religion, I am intolerant of intolerance"
"True freedom is not simply left or right. It is the ability to know when a law is needed, but more importantly, know when one is not"
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/23/2014 12:52:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Some would say that the JW's only attempted to revive Christianity by offering some more modern explanations to an outdated Christian religion. The problem is, once updated it's only going to remain credible for just a few years and then it becomes even more incredible and outdated than it's founding of Christianity.

In truth, all atheists should quite enjoy the infighting by the many different sects within the Christian religion. It's evidence that Christianity as a whole is severely threatened.

Door knockers can be deterred. I have phoned both the JW church and the Mormon church and told them that I have prohibited their members from stepping on my property. And I have threatened them with legal action if they persist. It's been successful for nearly 5 years now.
TheOncomingStorm
Posts: 249
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3/23/2014 12:58:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 12:52:26 PM, monty1 wrote:
Some would say that the JW's only attempted to revive Christianity by offering some more modern explanations to an outdated Christian religion.

The problem with saying Christianity is "outdated" is that it relies on the necessary condition that God does not exist. If God exists, it is literally impossible for Christianity to be outdated.
Official "Director of Weather and Hyperbole in the Maximum Degree of Mice and Men" of the FREEDO bureaucracy.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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3/23/2014 1:26:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 12:58:12 PM, TheOncomingStorm wrote:
At 3/23/2014 12:52:26 PM, monty1 wrote:
Some would say that the JW's only attempted to revive Christianity by offering some more modern explanations to an outdated Christian religion.

The problem with saying Christianity is "outdated" is that it relies on the necessary condition that God does not exist. If God exists, it is literally impossible for Christianity to be outdated.

Christianity is outdated because it's bible is outdated. It was written to be the literal word of god and now it can't possibly be read and taken literally. Modern day Christians are heavily involved in making excuses for their bible and that is causing the decline of their religion. I would suggest that Christianity will be so evolved in 100 years that it will hardly be recognizable. An 'also ran' along with some of the other smaller and minor religious beliefs.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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3/23/2014 1:54:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
MCB: "For instance Anna insists that Armageddon happened, even though Christ described what it is brought in to bring to an end "A tribulation such as has never been seen before no, nor will ever be seen again" and really history tells us that events in the 1st century have been eclipsed before and since, many times over."

Anna: For one thing, to call the great distress of Matt 24 a synonym for Armageddon over in Revelation is a bit of a stretch.

What I said was that the language of Matt 24 has apocalyptic qualities and is not to be taken as word-for-word literal. In fact, some commentaries refer to Matt 24 as the "Apocalypse of Jesus", although I wouldn't call it that.

All that the WatchTower does is assign an ultra-literal meaning to such language, then they start looking around for disasters worse in some respects than the siege and fall of Jerusalem. In fact, that's exactly what you have done here.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
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3/23/2014 1:59:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 12:58:12 PM, TheOncomingStorm wrote:
At 3/23/2014 12:52:26 PM, monty1 wrote:
Some would say that the JW's only attempted to revive Christianity by offering some more modern explanations to an outdated Christian religion.

The problem with saying Christianity is "outdated" is that it relies on the necessary condition that God does not exist. If God exists, it is literally impossible for Christianity to be outdated.

That would be true if Christians served God or Christ.

However I am not sure "outdated" is the right expression.

Christianity today has been replaced in God's eyes not because it is out of date, because God never changes, nor do his requirements, but because, like Israel before them they moved away from God.

Jehovah's Witnesses are trying to bring people back to true Christianity, just as Jesus tried to bring Israel back to God also.

The thing is worship of the true God went through stages after Adam sinned.

In fact after that, it all went to pieces. Apart from a few faithful ones like Enoch and Noah, it was chaos, which is the main reason the flood had to be brought.

After the flood God, following the plan he had formed when Adam sinned, started to search for a family he could use, and that proved to be Abraham's family.

This was all a part of what is known as the "Patriarchal Age", from Abraham God formed a Nation which became know, as Israel, after Abraham's Grandson, whose children eventually formed the 12 basic tribes,

To try to teach his new Nation Israel a few lessons, God brought in the Mosaic Law, and the Mosaic Covenant, and thus Israel because his people, and we enter the Covenant stage, which was never intended to be permanent anyway, but God was using it to develop a "people for his name".

The otehr purpose for Israel was to be a "Witness to all the Nations" demonstrating the benefits of being faithful to their God.

Unfortunately, then as now the majority proved to be unfaithful and actually demonstrated the problems of not being obedient.

However, again then as now, there was a remnant who actually wanted to be faithful, and that was still the same when Jesus became the Messiah, and it was to find and organise them that Jesus came.

The Mosaic Law had run out of time. The lessons it was supposed to teach Israel should have been learned, but for the majority weren't.

Those who followed Christ were not originally intended to have a new name, just to be called the New Israel, or the Israel of God, and that was indeed how they thought of themselves for all of the 1st century. but for many reasons God eventually allowed them to take on the name Christian, which denoted their following Christ.

If Annanicole had been around at the time she would have called it an unscriptural name because there was no scriptural precedent for it, despite that she is happy to call herself such, even though in word and deed she is far from such.

This is in fact what makes her charge against the name of Jehovah's Witnesses so ironic, and so hypocrital.

Christ fulfilled the Law, making it next to useless as a Law Code. However it still has it's place as a tool to help us learn the principles a Christian should live by.

However the name Christian was an accurate description of the fact that they were striving to imitate their leader Christ, and incidentally, the Name Jehovah's Witness works precisely the same way, since it describes, not so much the fact that they are following their king and leader, Christ, but how they are following him, since he was the original Witness of his father, Jehovah (Revelation 3:14).

So jut as the early Christians were both Spiritual Israelites and Christians, so Jehovah's Witnesses are not just Jehovah Witnesses but also Christians who follow Christ, and Spiritual Israelites.

Some level the charge that they are trying to frighten people into becoming JW. In fact it is almost the opposite. Just as their leader and king told his followers how hard it was going to be to follow him, and at the same time tried to teach them to trust in his father to help them face whatever the world threw at them (Try reading the whole of Matthew 10 and see if you would say Jesus is actually encouraging people to follow him), so JWs don't pull any punches in telling people what is facing humans today, but trying at the same time to teach people to know that if they trust in Jehovah they will survive whatever the world throws at them.

In fact the parallels between what Jesus taught and what JWs teach are deliberately as close as possible.

No, "Christianity" today is not outdated it has simply wandered away from God listening more to men that to Christ.
MadCornishBiker
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3/23/2014 2:51:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 1:54:36 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "For instance Anna insists that Armageddon happened, even though Christ described what it is brought in to bring to an end "A tribulation such as has never been seen before no, nor will ever be seen again" and really history tells us that events in the 1st century have been eclipsed before and since, many times over."

Anna: For one thing, to call the great distress of Matt 24 a synonym for Armageddon over in Revelation is a bit of a stretch.

Of course it is, which is why I have never said that they were the same. In fact what I said was that Armageddon is what brings that Great distress to an end.

The Great Tribulation is caused be men at the urging of Satan not by God. Armageddon is what stops it doing what Satan intends it to do and destroying mankind.

Incidentally, you made a big thing of the Jews losing their religious identity when the Temple was destroyed, Apart from the fact that they did not lose their religious identity, the worst thing that could ever have happened to them came to my attention in my researches. in the 7th century, all hope they had of ever being able to rebuild the temple, as they had after Solomon's temple was destroyed, was taken away from them when the Dome on the rock was constructed, thus completely desecrating the whole site, forever.

If you don't think that upset them ask some of the Jews who visit the Wailing Wall, the last remaining part of the Temple, the West Wall which surrounded the Courtyard of the Temple.

Incidentally, so much for "bot a stone upon a stone. Whoops.

That mistake by the Christ only presents a problem to those who wish to make more of him than scripture does.

Those of us who know exactly who and what he was have no problem with it. It was just another of the many human weaknesses he had to learn to handle and understand so that eh could be a fair judge of humanity when the time comes.

What I said was that the language of Matt 24 has apocalyptic qualities and is not to be taken as word-for-word literal. In fact, some commentaries refer to Matt 24 as the "Apocalypse of Jesus", although I wouldn't call it that.

Of course it has "Apocalyptic qualities" the Apocalypse, and alternative name for Revelation simply describes large parts of that sign somewhat more fully. What Jesus describes in a few words, Revelation describes in a few chapters.

No, Anna I know you wouldn't call it that. You prefer to water scripture down rather than take it for what it really means, though why it scares you so much I don't know. Mind you the attitude of the world to Jesus teachings puts you off following them also so...........


All that the WatchTower does is assign an ultra-literal meaning to such language, then they start looking around for disasters worse in some respects than the siege and fall of Jerusalem. In fact, that's exactly what you have done here.

I don't know what "ultra-literal" means, it certainly doesn't make sense.

What the Wachtower does is take scripture as it is, fits every passage into the same harmonious "picture" rejecting anything which doesn't fir, be it passage, like the long conclusions to Mark 8.

They keep prayerfully studying the manuscripts continually trying to improve their understanding of the harmonious pattern that the word of God has to be.

Your problem is that where scripture tells you something you don;t like, or that doesn't fit into your doctrine you cry "figurative" even where it is far from figurative.

The Kingdom isn't figurative. God doesn't plan spending about 7,000 years developing it a bit at a time for it to be figurative.

Remember what Jehovah said to Samuel when the Israelites demanded a human king?

1 Samuel 8:7 Then Jehovah said to Samuel: "Listen to the voice of the people as respects all that they say to you; for it is not you whom they have rejected, but it is I whom they have rejected from being king over them.

The Kingdom was real then, it is real now, and it will be real when it is finally fully developed and Christ hands it back to his father as a completed work.

Te destruction of human Government will also be literal.

We don;t need a human King, and JWs don't have one.

True they need human guides, but not a human king or a human leader.

I have said it so many times but you will remain spiritually poor and ignorant until you learn to obey scriptural commands which includes relying on the works of men to understand what they don't understand either.

Don;t fro get the example of the Beroeans.

They listened to Paul, but did they take his word for it? No, they went home and carefully searched the scriptures to see if what they were being told was so.

That is exactly what JWs encourage all to do.

Yes they ask you to listen to what they say, just as Paul expected the Beroeans to listen to him, but just like Paul they also expect each Witness to go home and check the scriptures to see if it really is so. IN fact they also encourage all to follow along in their bibles during the talks, pausing to let their audience find the scriptures.

Oh, whatever you wan to believe, they follow Christ and the Apostles as far as they humanly can.

Yes they made mistakes, but then if scripture is to believed so did Christ and the Apostles. It all depends on how much you believe scripture, especially compared to doctrine.
TheOncomingStorm
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3/23/2014 3:24:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 1:26:07 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 12:58:12 PM, TheOncomingStorm wrote:
At 3/23/2014 12:52:26 PM, monty1 wrote:
Some would say that the JW's only attempted to revive Christianity by offering some more modern explanations to an outdated Christian religion.

The problem with saying Christianity is "outdated" is that it relies on the necessary condition that God does not exist. If God exists, it is literally impossible for Christianity to be outdated.

Christianity is outdated because it's bible is outdated. It was written to be the literal word of god and now it can't possibly be read and taken literally.

Really? There are a lot of people who use it secularly for archaeological background in studies. Even the Smithsonian admits that the Old Testament is the most historically accurate ancient document we have.

Modern day Christians are heavily involved in making excuses for their bible and that is causing the decline of their religion.

I don't know what statistics you're looking at or what arguments you've heard, but Christians are involved in properly interpreting the Bible, and Christianity is not declining. You're making the same attacks people have always made, and Christianity is growing.

I would suggest that Christianity will be so evolved in 100 years that it will hardly be recognizable.

You're probably wrong.

An 'also ran' along with some of the other smaller and minor religious beliefs.

That sentence didn't make sense to me. Could you rephrase?
Official "Director of Weather and Hyperbole in the Maximum Degree of Mice and Men" of the FREEDO bureaucracy.
MadCornishBiker
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3/23/2014 3:41:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 3:24:27 PM, TheOncomingStorm wrote:
At 3/23/2014 1:26:07 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 3/23/2014 12:58:12 PM, TheOncomingStorm wrote:
At 3/23/2014 12:52:26 PM, monty1 wrote:
Some would say that the JW's only attempted to revive Christianity by offering some more modern explanations to an outdated Christian religion.

The problem with saying Christianity is "outdated" is that it relies on the necessary condition that God does not exist. If God exists, it is literally impossible for Christianity to be outdated.

Christianity is outdated because it's bible is outdated. It was written to be the literal word of god and now it can't possibly be read and taken literally.

Really? There are a lot of people who use it secularly for archaeological background in studies. Even the Smithsonian admits that the Old Testament is the most historically accurate ancient document we have.

Modern day Christians are heavily involved in making excuses for their bible and that is causing the decline of their religion.

I don't know what statistics you're looking at or what arguments you've heard, but Christians are involved in properly interpreting the Bible, and Christianity is not declining. You're making the same attacks people have always made, and Christianity is growing.

I agree I don't make excuses for the bible because it doesn't need excuses it is about as perfect as it's inspirer, despite what man has tried to do to it.

Depends what you call Christianity, what man does or what Christ does, the vast majority who call themselves Christian don't even know what the word represents.

Harsh? Yes, but just how Harsh do you think Jesus will be to those who don;t fit what he is looking for?

MAtthew 7:21-23.

I would suggest that Christianity will be so evolved in 100 years that it will hardly be recognizable.

You're probably wrong.

Actually I would say he is right, but not in the way he means it, because true Christianity is being dragged out of teh wilderness it has been in for nearly 2,000 years, and taken back to what it was in the 1st century.

Who by? The JWs, that's who.

Go on, a general challenge, try and prove it wrong and I'll show you from scripture why it is you that is wrong.


An 'also ran' along with some of the other smaller and minor religious beliefs.

That sentence didn't make sense to me. Could you rephrase?

I think I know what he means but I can;t be sure so I'm saying nothing. I think it is just badly worded.
biomystic
Posts: 606
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3/23/2014 3:47:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 5:17:02 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I have started this thread because I am sick to death of being dragged into hi-jacking other people's thread thanks to the hatred that some, Satanically driven people have for the JWs who truly are God's people on earth.

So, bring it on people, serious questions preferred but even Anna, composer and Bulproof are welcome to keep up their manic attacks on God here.

Attacks on God?

Yes because as he has shown in the past, attacking his people has always meant attacking him in is eyes.

Who cares what stupid and arrogant and childish Gentiles believe of our Jewish Scriptures? You JW's are just religious losers who home invade because you're all just like you, pushy PIGS plastering your silly JW spiritual errors all over religious blogs. JWs make their own bed just like Muslims and Scientologists, all three of your religions just man-made spiritual garbage that make all three of you believers act out in ways nobody appreciates, home invasion for you JWs, suicide bomber religion for Muslims, and snakes in the mailboxes for Scientologists who dare to quit, who needs you people making a mockery of real spirituality?

Go ahead and plaster your ego here, MCB, you don't care anything about anyone else as I've found to be true of most JWs, the religion spawning a pack of judgment freaks trying to outdo each other in condemnation of others. As you do every day here and frankly, we've heard everything you have to say, MCB, and it's boring now, get a clue, and go bother other forums for a while. You've overstayed your welcome here and just are redundant wasted comment space.
MadCornishBiker
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3/23/2014 4:15:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 12:52:26 PM, monty1 wrote:
Some would say that the JW's only attempted to revive Christianity by offering some more modern explanations to an outdated Christian religion. The problem is, once updated it's only going to remain credible for just a few years and then it becomes even more incredible and outdated than it's founding of Christianity.

Then they would be wrong because all they have done is taken it back to scripture, to what the Apostles and Christ taught.

They haven't updated it in any way at all, apart from the name they adopted to avoid being called Russellites. But then Christians adopted that name to get away from being called a sect of the Jews.

Even that name wasn't entirely new because the Christ is called the "faithful and true Witness". Who was he a witness to? His father Jehovah of course.

The trouble with "promoting" him to part of a trinity as Apostate Christians did is that he has too much respect for his God and Father not to hate that particular lie more than any otehr, since he sees it as an insult to his father.

The trouble is, if you promote Christ to equality with his father, against all that scripture teaches, are you actually promoting him, or demoting his father? I know Jesus sees it as trying to demote his father.


In truth, all atheists should quite enjoy the infighting by the many different sects within the Christian religion. It's evidence that Christianity as a whole is severely threatened.


I am sure they do, it gives them an excuse not to believe, and that is exactly why Satan created such a confusion of so called "Christian" faiths. He wants as many as possible to perish with him.

Door knockers can be deterred. I have phoned both the JW church and the Mormon church and told them that I have prohibited their members from stepping on my property. And I have threatened them with legal action if they persist. It's been successful for nearly 5 years now.

The trouble is that you are preventing yourself from hearing what can save your eternal life. Of course that is your choice, and you run the risk of dying eternally because of it.

Strictly speaking if you go on their Do Not Call list you should still be called on, by Elders only, every 6 months in case you have moved , as has, as has happened in my experience, changed your mind and felt the need to listen.

You may not like what JWs are doing, but they are simply following the pattern that Jesus set for all his followers, without exception, in the best way for today's world.

Mind you if you have been ignored for 5 years, you have some inefficient Elders in your area, but some very efficient publishers (what all baptised and active JW are called), because whilst the Elders should have called on you 10 times in that period just to make sure you still want to be on the DNC list (well it's better than every week which some people get called on where there are a fair few witnesses and territory is hard to find), if the Publishers in your area haven't called on you by error occassionally (as I did many times when I was a JW), they are more alert than I was.

Part of the problem is that when you get one unanswered door after another you can easily loose track of which house's path you are walking up, and more than once I have realised I shouldn't have been there just after knocking or ringing the bell. Of course when I did that I always waited until someone came, if they did, if only to apologise for my mistake.

Ironically many a Witness was once a DNC or alternatively hid behind the sofa when the JWs called ( yes really, I have known quite a few.

The time to really worry is when JWs stop doing the ministry, because when they do it will only be cause God has called a halt to it all, just as he did in Noah's day when he shut the Ark door and stopped Noah from doing any more preaching.

Not an inappropriate analogy if only because it is the one Christ used to describe there times:

Luke 17:22-30.
22 Then he said to the disciples: "Days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, but you will not see it. 23 And people will say to you, "See there!" or, "See here!" Do not go out or chase after them. 24 For just as lightning flashes from one part of heaven to another part of heaven, so the Son of man will be in his day. 25 First, however, he must undergo many sufferings and be rejected by this generation. 26 Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the Son of man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the Flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building. 29 But on the day that Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be the same on that day when the Son of man is revealed.

I often wonder how many people at Armageddon will say "But nobody told us" to which Christ's will say "My JWs tried to but you refused to listen", or words to that effect.

With God's law as with man's ignorance is no excuse because there is no genuine reason to remain ignorant.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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3/23/2014 4:25:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 3:47:13 PM, biomystic wrote:
At 3/23/2014 5:17:02 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I have started this thread because I am sick to death of being dragged into hi-jacking other people's thread thanks to the hatred that some, Satanically driven people have for the JWs who truly are God's people on earth.

So, bring it on people, serious questions preferred but even Anna, composer and Bulproof are welcome to keep up their manic attacks on God here.

Attacks on God?

Yes because as he has shown in the past, attacking his people has always meant attacking him in is eyes.

Who cares what stupid and arrogant and childish Gentiles believe of our Jewish Scriptures?

Who cares what a doped-up old leftover hippie from the sixties believes .... about anything? You couldn't prove your lineage to Abraham through Jacob to save your THC-laden life.

Notice what the old pothead (yes, the same one who has scurried about baptizing an old worthless fake sword) has to say about others:

1. stupid
2. arrogant
3. childish
4. religious losers
5. pushy PIGS
6. silly
7. spiritual garbage
8. mockery of real spirituality
9. freaks
10. overstayed your welcome
11. boring
12. wasted comment space

That's what we get from a fella whose mind is so shot that he thinks a washed-up old Indian holy man beat his drums and caused the storm clouds to change their behavior. He proved by telling us to ask the dead geese about it. LMAO. That's what we get from someone who has created an entire series of webpages, all linked, for the sole purpose of promoting nonsensical revelations about "Christ-Josephine" and "Paxcalibur". (Paxcalibur is his worthless old sword, the one that he's baptized.)

Go roll one, dude. Hit the bong. Peace out. Go stare at the stars awhile tonight.

How many debates you had on here, Bio? I've had plenty. MadCornish has had them. Composer has had them? You've had ... ZERO? Wow! You're right up there with Dogknox.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
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3/23/2014 4:38:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 3:47:13 PM, biomystic wrote:
At 3/23/2014 5:17:02 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I have started this thread because I am sick to death of being dragged into hi-jacking other people's thread thanks to the hatred that some, Satanically driven people have for the JWs who truly are God's people on earth.

So, bring it on people, serious questions preferred but even Anna, composer and Bulproof are welcome to keep up their manic attacks on God here.

Attacks on God?

Yes because as he has shown in the past, attacking his people has always meant attacking him in is eyes.

Who cares what stupid and arrogant and childish Gentiles believe of our Jewish Scriptures? You JW's are just religious losers who home invade because you're all just like you, pushy PIGS plastering your silly JW spiritual errors all over religious blogs. JWs make their own bed just like Muslims and Scientologists, all three of your religions just man-made spiritual garbage that make all three of you believers act out in ways nobody appreciates, home invasion for you JWs, suicide bomber religion for Muslims, and snakes in the mailboxes for Scientologists who dare to quit, who needs you people making a mockery of real spirituality?

Go ahead and plaster your ego here, MCB, you don't care anything about anyone else as I've found to be true of most JWs, the religion spawning a pack of judgment freaks trying to outdo each other in condemnation of others. As you do every day here and frankly, we've heard everything you have to say, MCB, and it's boring now, get a clue, and go bother other forums for a while. You've overstayed your welcome here and just are redundant wasted comment space.

It s ego that led to the Jews being rejected by God, and ego that is your downfall also.

God cares how anyone treats his word, and so should the Jews because their scriptures make it clear that they will be abandoned for their unfaithfulness, and those who fail to follow God's son are the most unfaithful of all.

He has also cared about gentiles.

He accepted Ruth the Moabitess into his nation.

He accepted Rehab the prostitute of Jericho into Israel.

He not only accepted his enemies the Gibeonites into his nmation but preformed one of his greatest ever miracles in order to protect them from ther former allies who turned on them ebcause they sided with Israel.

God has always accepted Gentiles, in his terms.

He has also rejected Israelites because they would not accept his terms.

That is why Israel was taken captive into Babylon and their temple destroyed.

That is why Israel was disbanded and only Judah left so that the Messiah could still be born into that tribe.

That is why he allowed Rome to capture them and eventually destroy their temple once his son's work was done (Daniel 9:24-26).

No wonder jehovah (Yaweh, or Yehowah, whichever you prefer) called you people stiff necmed so often.

No wonder he frequently called you adulteresses.

No wonder he eventually abandoned you as he had said would happen.

You just never learned you were far too full of ego and pride to listen.

You rally can't take a hint can you.

Well wake up, worship God who he wants you to, not how you want to, and transfer to Spiritual Israel, the only real Israel that has existed for well over 2,000 years, as all faithful Jews did.

Nothing has happened to you that God did not warn you would if you didn't listen. So start listening and stop clinging to the traditions of men as the Pharisees did in Jesus day.

God not only stated it carefully through his prophets, he sent his son to try and get the message through, but as long as you remain wilfully ignorant you will remain condemned.

Jews have no excuse left to remain Jews.

The end of the Mosaic Law, and Covenant were both prophesied in their own scriptures.

The New Nation, which eventually became known as Christianity was foretold in their own scriptures.

If you are going to ignore your own scriptures what can you expect

Simple as.

After all, if you are too proud to listen to your own God. If you are too find of the traditions of men than his word, why should he listen to you?

You still only have one true God, and now you only have one true Rabbi, Christ.

Join God's son in the worship of his father, in the way is father wants, or suffer the consequences as your fellow Jews have been doing for well well over 2,000 years, and will continue to do until God destroys them forever.
annanicole
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3/23/2014 5:02:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 2:51:27 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/23/2014 1:54:36 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "For instance Anna insists that Armageddon happened, even though Christ described what it is brought in to bring to an end "A tribulation such as has never been seen before no, nor will ever be seen again" and really history tells us that events in the 1st century have been eclipsed before and since, many times over."

Anna: For one thing, to call the great distress of Matt 24 a synonym for Armageddon over in Revelation is a bit of a stretch.

Of course it is, which is why I have never said that they were the same. In fact what I said was that Armageddon is what brings that Great distress to an end.

The Great Tribulation is caused be men at the urging of Satan not by God. Armageddon is what stops it doing what Satan intends it to do and destroying mankind.

Prove it.

Incidentally, you made a big thing of the Jews losing their religious identity when the Temple was destroyed, Apart from the fact that they did not lose their religious identity, the worst thing that could ever have happened to them came to my attention in my researches.

It is a fact that a Jew in the first century could trace his identity back to Abraham through Isaac and Jacob. That WAS the "religious identity" of a Jew. Why dont you explain for us how a Jew in, say, the 3rd or 5th century could prove his religious identity?

If you don't think that upset them ask some of the Jews who visit the Wailing Wall, the last remaining part of the Temple, the West Wall which surrounded the Courtyard of the Temple.

You have no idea exactly what the so-called "Wailing Wall" is, nor do I. Some think it to be the remains of a Roman fortress.

Incidentally, so much for "bot a stone upon a stone. Whoops.

So you intend to use the remains of an old wall that you cannot identify as some sort of "proof" that Matt 24: 2 has not yet been fulfilled?

"There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Could you explain for us why Josephus said that the entire temple complex was leveled? After all, he was a Jew. He was an historian. And most importantly, he was there. You, on the other hand, are neither a Jew, nor an historian, nor were you there. Whoops.

That mistake by the Christ only presents a problem to those who wish to make more of him than scripture does.

What mistake?


Those of us who know exactly who and what he was have no problem with it. It was just another of the many human weaknesses he had to learn to handle and understand so that eh could be a fair judge of humanity when the time comes.

Blah. He's off in left field again.

What I said was that the language of Matt 24 has apocalyptic qualities and is not to be taken as word-for-word literal. In fact, some commentaries refer to Matt 24 as the "Apocalypse of Jesus", although I wouldn't call it that.

Of course it has "Apocalyptic qualities" the Apocalypse, and alternative name for Revelation simply describes large parts of that sign somewhat more fully. What Jesus describes in a few words, Revelation describes in a few chapters.

Well, apocalyptic literature is not literal. The PROLOGUE to an Apocalypse is very literal, but the vision itself is not.

No, Anna I know you wouldn't call it that. You prefer to water scripture down rather than take it for what it really means, though why it scares you so much I don't know. Mind you the attitude of the world to Jesus teachings puts you off following them also so...........


All that the WatchTower does is assign an ultra-literal meaning to such language, then they start looking around for disasters worse in some respects than the siege and fall of Jerusalem. In fact, that's exactly what you have done here.

I don't know what "ultra-literal" means, it certainly doesn't make sense.

Very, very literal.

"For then shall be great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be"

When you see that, by golly, you want to see some death-counts. I'll ask a question this way:

"Is the language "such as hath not been .... nor ever shall be" to be taken LITERALLY?"

You be sure and answer that for us, because such hyperbolic language is used quite a bit in Jewish literature - and I'd love to see your explanations of some other passage that employ similar language.

If you say, "Yes, Matt 24: 21 is hyperbolic. It is exaggerative. It is a fairly common Jewish figure, and is not to be taken literally", then you'll lose your whole argument.

What the Wachtower does is take scripture as it is, fits every passage into the same harmonious "picture" rejecting anything which doesn't fir, be it passage, like the long conclusions to Mark 8.

What the BotchTower has done is come up with their own "harmonious picture", then twist passages into agreement with it. And it's Mark 16 - not Mark 8.

They keep prayerfully studying the manuscripts continually trying to improve their understanding of the harmonious pattern that the word of God has to be.

Pfffffffffffft. I doubt they have anybody who is even CAPABLE of "studying the manuscripts". Look at the mess they made on John 8: 58 - a ridiculous perversion, and an even more absurd defense of it. Anybody who can't translate ego eimi in a simple declarative needs to get out of the translating business.

Your problem is that where scripture tells you something you don;t like, or that doesn't fit into your doctrine you cry "figurative" even where it is far from figurative.

The Kingdom isn't figurative. God doesn't plan spending about 7,000 years developing it a bit at a time for it to be figurative.

I never said the kingdom is figurative. I said it is not future. Paul and John were already in it.

Remember what Jehovah said to Samuel when the Israelites demanded a human king?

1 Samuel 8:7 Then Jehovah said to Samuel: "Listen to the voice of the people as respects all that they say to you; for it is not you whom they have rejected, but it is I whom they have rejected from being king over them.

The Kingdom was real then, it is real now, and it will be real when it is finally fully developed and Christ hands it back to his father as a completed work.

It is fully developed now.

Te destruction of human Government will also be literal.

No, that is a figurative statement.

We don;t need a human King, and JWs don't have one.

I never said you did. You do not have a king at all, human or divine.

True they need human guides, but not a human king or a human leader.

I have said it so many times but you will remain spiritually poor and ignorant until you learn to obey scriptural commands which includes relying on the works of men to understand what they don't understand either.

It is the WatchTower who claims that if one lays aside its literature for, I think, two years, then the person will drift off into spiritual darkness.

Imagine that. They said, in effect, if a person studies the Bible and the Bible alone, he will not become or remain a Jehovah's Witness.

Would you like to see the quote? I doubt it, because I do not think you will deny it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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3/23/2014 7:15:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 5:02:28 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 3/23/2014 2:51:27 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/23/2014 1:54:36 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "For instance Anna insists that Armageddon happened, even though Christ described what it is brought in to bring to an end "A tribulation such as has never been seen before no, nor will ever be seen again" and really history tells us that events in the 1st century have been eclipsed before and since, many times over."


Frankly, since I have shown you all the evidences from scripture many times I can;t be bothered to answer such a load of rubbish, apart from a few chosen pojnts.

The genalogies:

Jews keep their own records and can prove, even today, what tribe they belong to from them, as a Jew explained on this site:

http://forums.catholic.com...

"Default Re: Temple records destroyed in 70AD?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisherman carl View Post
Is it true that the Jewish genealogy was destroyed in the fire when the Jewish Temple was destroyed in 70A or is this just a myth? Did it come from the Jehovah Witnesses?

Some people say that it is true but how do they know that? I heard Josephus didn't mention the temple records at all when the temple burned down. So how would we know?
We Jews also had genealogy records at home and we know to this day who belongs to what tribe.

Today, we tend to keep tract by last name,

Quote:
Halacha, applied Torah law, defines "Jewishness" as being determined by the mother's Jewish status. If a person's mother is halachically Jewish, then the child is Jewish - even from a non-Jewish father. The father determines the child's Tribe status. These days, that is whether he is a Cohen, Levi or Yisrael - which includes Yehuda and all others."

However it is a fact that the hisroicalk records of Josephus, a Roman Jew, contain no mention of genealogical recods being kept at, or destroyed with teh Templw.

As for the "Wailing Wall" the Jews certainly believe it to be what remains of teh temple, and the Romans not only left that standing to give their own troops shelter, but left the towers standing also.

"This is the holiest shrine of the Jewish world. The Western Wall is part of the retaining wall supporting the temple mount built by Herod in 20 B.C. After the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 A.D., Jews were not allowed to come to Jerusalem until the Byzantine period, when they could visit once a year on the anniversary of the destruction of the Temple and weep over the ruins of the Holy Temple. Because of this, the wall became known as the "Wailing Wall."

Jews were again not allowed to visit the wall from 1948-1967 when it was in the Jordanian section of the city. After the Six Day War, the Western Wall became a place for national rejoycing and prayer, as the last accessible relic of the last Temple."

So yes I do now precisely what the Wailing Wall is. it was the Western Wall of the Temple.

Copied and pasted from: http://www.levitt.com...

As I said, so much for "not a stone left standing upon a stone" Whoops.

I know you don;t like to think of Jesus making mistakes because it destroys your precious doctrine, but maybe yu should consider that scripture reveals those mistakes for a reason, to teach us something, and then try and work out what it is teaching us.

If scripture says Jesus made mistakes, he made mistakes, like it or not, you can't change it.

Yes I would like to see that quote, because I never have.

However you are right, I will not deny the probability because as with everything they teach it is perfectly scriptural.

Draw away from God by refusing to cooperate with his arrangements, and he will draw away from you.

There are numerous examples of just that in scripture, as well as numerous warnings, but since you only believe the parts of scripture you agree with there is no point in showing you them is there. you cherry pick you scripture like very few others do, and you simply can't do that with God's word.

You either believe it all or you truly believe none of it.

Personally I believe it all, even the inconvenient bits.
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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3/23/2014 7:24:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 9:33:19 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
You might notice I don't specify a translation because even though I believe the NWT to be the most accurate translation you can get, I agree with the JWs who hold that what they, and I, teach can be demonstrated from any translation you care to choose, so take your pick
Your malignant lies continue!

i) You nor they can sustain their Satan ideology using ANY Story book!

Your & their unambiguous failure to be able to legitimately sustain their Satan ideology using the YLT & E.D. publications confirm your lies & dishonest claim!

ii) You insist on referring to a Supernatural god but your evidence is zero!

You refuse to go to the James Randi Educational Foundation to have your Supernatural / Paranormal claims examined for legitimacy?

Your predecessors tried and failed to even meet the prerequisites! LMAO@MCB & those like him!

iii) You insist on claiming that the various bibles are the words given by any means to mankind by a Supernatural being, however your legitimate evidence also remains a constant zero!

iv) The accurate List I compiled so far of your total failures & willingness to LIE to try to sustain your ideology stands confirmed at 24 & growing!

v) Your ongoing denials only reconfirms your psychotic arrogance & blatant dishonesty!

vi) The biblical jebus you also refer to is a 100% Historical MYTH!

vii) Your own propaganda proves you the malignant sinner are a fraud!

viii) Unless you can prove otherwise, similarly your alleged faith is also a lie!

Here's a simple test -

Matthew 17:20: KJV Story book
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

What literal mountains have you ever moved to date & again the TV & Film Industry would love to capture your literal mountain moving for the Guinness Book of Records?

You can make your best efforts again with those points i - viii and we'll see if you do any better this time?

I know you are lying psychotic brainwashed scum, but my benevolence as your vindicated mentor & Saviour permits me to extend my generous offer to you again here!
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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3/23/2014 7:37:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 7:15:38 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/23/2014 5:02:28 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 3/23/2014 2:51:27 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 3/23/2014 1:54:36 PM, annanicole wrote:
MCB: "For instance Anna insists that Armageddon happened, even though Christ described what it is brought in to bring to an end "A tribulation such as has never been seen before no, nor will ever be seen again" and really history tells us that events in the 1st century have been eclipsed before and since, many times over."


Frankly, since I have shown you all the evidences from scripture many times I can;t be bothered to answer such a load of rubbish, apart from a few chosen pojnts.

You forgot to tell us the answer to this:

"Is the language "such as hath not been .... nor ever shall be" to be taken LITERALLY?"

The rest of your post is so non-sensical that I cannot even tell what you are answering
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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3/23/2014 7:46:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
MCB: "Jews keep their own records and can prove, even today, what tribe they belong to from them, as a Jew explained on this site"

Anna: It is patently absurd for you to be on here claiming that a Jew today can trace his genealogy back to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

If you think such a person exists, then put the evidence where your mouth is: just name the person and provide a link to his genealogy. That's all it would take. Know what? We'll never see such a link.

Why? Simply because the genealogies back to Jacob were the BASIS of the entire Mosaic System. When God rejected that system, He struck a blow at the tap-root: the Abrahamic ancestry.

While I do not doubt that some families kept their own records, and that these records persisted for awhile, it is a matter of fact that all of the OFFICIAL records went POOF during the Jewish Wars from AD 67 onward. If not, then by all means, you need to prove to the world that they exist.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Skyangel
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3/23/2014 9:33:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 3/23/2014 5:17:02 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
I have started this thread because I am sick to death of being dragged into hi-jacking other people's thread thanks to the hatred that some, Satanically driven people have for the JWs who truly are God's people on earth.

So, bring it on people, serious questions preferred but even Anna, composer and Bulproof are welcome to keep up their manic attacks on God here.

Attacks on God?

Yes because as he has shown in the past, attacking his people has always meant attacking him in is eyes.

Dear MCB,
All people who claim to be Gods people claim they are being persecuted and attacked for God or others are attacking God when they attack them in any way. The devil himself could claim the same thing and be justified in his claim. The principle applies to all people. Look at how Brad claims people are attacking God when he feels attacked.
The FACT is that according to the parable in Matthew 25: 31-46, whatever humans do to each other, they do it to God or don't do it to God. If you wish to take that literally, it makes US ALL GOD and what we do and say to each other we do and say it to God.

Basically the way we treat all of life is the way we treat God. God is not a single man in the sky but is ALL of LIFE from the least to the greatest in the judgment of humans.